The Primerica Paradox: The Discussion

I can’t wait till Friday.

Dear Financial Blogger! ; )

You know my own experience with Primerica. But I’ll try to resume it again.

I went to one of their reunions and had the chance to stay a little longer than the other recruits-to-be. At that time, I really had the impression that those people want to help others. I saw them talking, laughing and motivating themselves with no one around to analyse but me. It seamt like fun to be part of this team (yes, they really act like a team).

Someone also came to my home to show me their products. I don’t know much about finance but I thought he had good arguments. They are offering ways to save money by paying less bank fees (the principle is that your representative is not a bank employee and doesn’t need you as a money income as he makes most of his money by recruiting others). They also put a lot of energy over what you’ll like in the future and ways to achieve it. They also gave me good advices regarding my real needs on life insurance.

But, I did not become a recruit. My reasons are simple. First, although they say everybody can do this, I think you have to have a minimum of interest in financial products, which is not really my case. Second, I felt their principal goal (help people with their finances) was left to their last priorities as most of their time was spent in recruiting. Last, they say they offer you the chance to work on the schedule you want. BUT attending reunions on Wednesdays or Thurdays nights, every week, as well as big meetings on Saturdays and other activities that implie your family is obligatory. I simply didn’t feel like thinking about work on nights and weekends…

I also have to admit the Pyramid side of their system still scares me a little. Putting all that together, I personnally think they are unfortunately more down sides in being a member of Primerica than anything else. On the other hand, they propose new ways to look over your personnal finances that could be positive for most of us.

Vé,

You would probably receive the same kind of good advices from other mutual funds / insurance companies’ consultants. Those companies are not looking at finance the same way banks do. They tend to be more proactive than banks in regards to clients’ needs. While it is a good point for Primerica, they are not the only company that does it.

Thx for sharing your experience!

Sounds like a scam.

Mike

wait until the conclusion, it’s worst than you think

It’s good for people who’s not good at managing their own money. For finance aware people like us who read finance blogs. The things that they can help you with are limited.

The power of their system is in recruiting. But what happens when the people you recruit doesn’t sell? Which is what their system points to. If you look at it, clearly, bringing a person in actually nets you more income than making a contract.

Once you exhausted your immediate families as recruits and broken all your relationships in the process, what are you going to do? Make cold calls to their references whom you’ve never met.

Hey FB, here’s the telling line for me:
Many people are frustrated against Primerica but they should be frustrated about themselves.

This is simply on of the weakest f@#ing arguments that you can present. I’ve basically heard this almost verbatim from every other MLM. Oddly, what they’re saying is actually correct and pretty simple:
Sales is hard work and financial training is hard work. Most people don’t do very well with this stuff, b/c it’s hard work and that’s not what they signed up for.

Personally, I think the MLM people are dirty for selling their product as if it’s anything other than hard work. I mean they’re offering licensed financial advice. That requires lots of training and some experience. You have to spend hours in sales meetings and poring over people’s finances to make correct suggestions and you have nothing to buffer your failure like you would in a “normal job”, so you’re basically a consultant without a degree.

Of course, the people who fail at the MLM things are the dummies who don’t figure out that “this MLM thing is hard work. These are the people who’ve never heard of efficient market and can’t figure out their “rate / hour” or why they’re failing where their bosses are succeeding. These people generally have no other “hope” of “striking it big”, b/c they don’t have an education or highly marketable skills or even the desire to do the things that make them worthy of lots of money / hour.

I honestly think the “negative response on Google” is really a two-fold problem. It’s likely 50% lying salespeople (whether intentional or misguided) and 50% fools who actually didn’t follow “the system” and didn’t put in the time and basically failed b/c of their own ineptitude (crooked business or not).

Gates, I’m not sure that the negative response on Google is only created from liars and dummies. How come you don’t have similar search results when you are pulling conventional commission based company such as Trimark or Sun Life? The only difference is the MLM structure as consultants are paid by commission and sell the same products with both kinds of company. In fact, it is as hard to sell with Primerica than it would be under another conventional banner. I’ll keep the rest of my answer to my 2 posts conclusion at the end of this week

This war over PFS has raged for years on the internet, and I have no doubt it’ll continue as long as PFS is around… I usually just spectate, but you seem to be a fairly reasonable guy, so I’d like to throw in my two cents…

I’ve been full time with PFS for three years now, and at the age of 21, will be a Vice President this month. I’m good with people, I have no problem selling something I believe in, and I have no problem not bringing someone on board my organization.

I don’t feel there can be an argument on the products that PFS offers. With our new term insurance product, we’re amongst the lowest cost in the industry, our loans help the consumer reach debt freedom faster, and aren’t terribly uncompetitive like they used to be, and our investment business utilizes virtually every major fund company in existence.

I would like to share a side of things most people don’t think of. The average age of a financial professional in America is mid to late 50’s. That means that in a few years, most companies’ sales forces will be retired. In light of this, there have been more companies trying to recruit me than you can possibly imagine. I’ve had interviews with Nationwide, MetLife, Baltimore Life, AIG, and a few others. They act like dogs looking at piece of raw meat seeing a 21 year old who’s fully licensed and is a big producer… Kinda scary, actually…

I tell you this because hey, I’m only 21, and I don’t have a mountain of life experience, and I had no idea if there was something better out there! But after sitting down with several companies, their presentation all boiled down to this: We have decent products, we have benefits, you can make an awesome living selling here!

Which left me a bit confused, as PFS offers all of those same things, and adds one thing: the ability to recruit other people from day one. And it is this component that seems to get people bent out of shape. Perhaps I’m naive, but I can’t see why… There are seven people in my organization that make a full-time living from PFS. And none of them are 21 like myself. They all have families. mortgages, etc… I’ve been around the world because of PFS. Why wouldn’t I want to recruit?

By the way, all of the other companies offered the ability to recruit as well. The difference lied in the fact that I would have needed to be a top salesman for at least two to three years, and then I could recruit and earn overrides, just like in PFS.

I guess the point is, some people get confused, or are perhaps flat out lied to when encountering PFS. It IS hard, but it IS rewarding, much like any other job in sales. And don’t let anyone fool you, you can make a great income personally developing clients. I get paid nearly $3,000 for one full-service client, and that takes about 8-10 hours of my time.

Thanks for reading my ramblings, I hope it was entertaining!

Hey FB, I think that food for thought is evidence to the essence of my comment.

I’m good with people, I have no problem selling something I believe in, and I have no problem not bringing someone on board my organization.
It IS hard, but it IS rewarding, much like any other job in sales

You see, with these skills, he could’ve been in sales anywhere. He even admits that its hard work (which is part of good sales). As a smart guy, he probably had no problem making the sales and this suddenly puts him on top. Not only does he make sales, he also gets a down-line which you don’t get if you’re selling cars. He’s probably a company success story, of course, he’s also probably in the 0.1% of the population for whom PFS would actually be a good career move!

Of course, the MLM structure attracts the liars and the dummies, whereas regular sales tends to weed those people out (barring used car salesmen and crooked companies).

Food for thought, I don’t think that Primerica is bad by itself, Where I have a problem, is how the company is described by the recruiter. You seem to be pretty successful, have you ever tried to figure out how much you would earn from a more conventional insurance or mutual fund company with the same sales?

Gates, you are right as I think that FFT could have been a top performer pretty much everywhere. I wish car company would get rid of liars as well… you can’t find a honest car salesmen these days

I think it’s great you guys seem to be taking an honest look at PFS.

If anything though, it would be awesome if you would consider one thing, which, admittedly, may be hard to wrap your head around…

PFS is not a MLM company.

I hear it all the time… “The Amway of financial services”, “Just another one of those cult, insurance pyramid deals”, the list goes on and on…

There are two reasons, in my mind anyway, and I could be wrong, that it isn’t.

1) You are required to recruit to earn a promotion to Regional Vice President, not to make money. You can make money, and pretty good money, simply as a representative. Living the lifestyle of your dreams money? No, but replace-most-jobs money, in the 30-40k a year range. I personally can’t think of one other company in the MLM industry that would allow you to do that.

2) Every financial service company recruits, and recruits heavily. In fact, every other company I’m aware of actually has a salaried position with the title of Recruiter. Like I mentioned before, I’ve been prospected by more financial service companies than I care to remember, and every single one of them would have overridden my sales had I been hired there. So, perhaps I’m young and naive, but I fail to see how that differs from what PFS does, except they actually get paid to recruit, and we actually have to license, train, and equip someone to sell before we get compensated off their efforts…

Keep in mind, I’m not denying that the highest paid earners in the company recruited their way to the top; they did, but that was a choice they made when working here.

As for compensation, at my current contract level, from every insurance company I’ve interviewed with, I make just about the same as every other company on a term insurance sale. As a Vice President, with bonuses, I would make far more than any other compensation plan I’ve personally seen.

With mutual funds and annuities, I do make less than an average registered rep would. Not by much, but about 10-15% less from what I’ve seen. I do think due to the nature of our business, and the tendency to have multiple products with one client, the average trade is a bit higher than it normally would be at another firm. For example, I have yet to interview with a company that also offers a debt elimination product. So if I can free up $500 a month for a client, and they give me $200 a month to put into a Roth IRA, that’s $200 I wouldn’t have gotten at another firm… So I think it all comes out in the wash in that regard.

As far as car companies go, I have a friend of mine that just started at a dealership, and sweet mother of Jesus, from the things he told me, I’m almost scared to buy a car at one!! The tactics employed there are unbelievable! So I totally agree with you in that they should get rid of car salesman!

FFT, I appreciate your comments but I would like to review them.

#1 It is true that you are not required to recruit representatives at Primerica. However, if you don’t and you only sell, you will more likely make less than with another company and you will not benefit from the main feature of Primerica : recruiting. You can do the same thing with Amway; sell, sell sell but you will not get much out of it, this is why (like Primerica) they strongly recommend you recruit others. Without saying that it is bad, Primerica is MLM at any level.

#2 Every company recruits, regardless if they are in the financial industry or not. Having a licence to sell this kind of product is a legal requirement, nothing incredible with that. However, I have a problem where people that have absolutely no skill nor financial experience will become “fully trained” after 5 meetings.

#3 In regards to the plan of debt elimination, I personally worked with many consultants from different companies (five of them to be precise) and that was a big part on how they were able to get money invested into life insurance or mutual funds. It is a common (but really good) technique used by several companies. For some curious reasons, Primerica is trying to claim the exclusivity on this basic method. Even some banks are doing it!

I strongly suggest you read my next two posts (this Thursday and Friday) about my conclusion on the company.

[...] that this company was not made for me. So after reading more about the way they approach people and their speech, I am presenting my personal conclusion on [...]

I have responded once before and wanted to take this opportunity to share some history about the Primerica phenomenon.

When Primerica first emerged, it was under a different name….it was called A.L. Williams. Art Williams, a high school coach, began selling TERM Insurance and MUTUAL FUNDS.

His logic was simple:

(1) Whole Life Insurance is simply a bundled product, composed of a decreasing term policy linked to a savings component I will refer to Whole Life and its cousins now as CASH VALUE POLICIES

(2) Cash Value Policies, on a cost per thousand, are much more expensive than Term Inisurance

(3) Cash Value Policies are difficult to understand and most traditional life insurance agents cannot tell you how much of your premium dollars go the the life insurance component and how much goes to the savings component. Remember, MOST Life Insurance agents were NOT college educated in finance and economics. What they learned about insurance they learned from the Insurance Company that hired them

(4) The rate of return on the savings component is extremely low. According to a Federal Trade Commission study conducted in the 1970s, the rate of return was less than 2 percent!

(5) In most cases, when a person who owns Whole Life dies, his beneficiaries receive only the face amount of the policy, NOT the savings!!

(6) If you take out the savings while the policy is in force, you either have to borrow the money (that’s cute…you borrow your own money) or if you take out all the savings, the insurance company reserves the right to cancel your policy. You don’t have to believe me, just READ the policy and examine its provisions.

(7) His conclusion?

Have people purchase TERM insurance so that they could afford adequate coverage

Have people invest in mutual funds to satisfy their retirement needs because historically they have provided a much higher return than insurance policies.

As another advantage, IF the policy owner dies, his family receive his insurance AND investments.

He called this concept “Buy Term and Invest the Difference!” The concept had actually been around for a long time. Art Williams simply adopted it and put it into practice.

How did the life insurance industry react? Attack after attack after attack. The little dirty secret was out. Primerica revealed that the industry was focused on selling its most expensive product (Whole Life) to make profits rather than to provide benefits to its policy owners. Sure, they could sell term, but they instead pushed whole life policies as “investments.” But Primerica kept forging ahead. As more and more people became financially literate, they began to question the practices of the once revered insurance companies. The people began to act.

In the 1990s several of the industry’s top companies were facing class action suits for parading Life Insurance as an investment. Prudential, MetLife, and many others were stung and forced to pay liabilities to customers.

The industry never forgot Primerica and continued to attack her with a vengeance. The company was excoriated and its representatives impugned. Rumor and innuendo about Primerica was rampant. The way we were protrayed you would have thought that behind each of our names were the numbers, 666!

As Primerica grew, so did the logic and wisdom of its message. But Term Insurance and invest in mutual funds! Now most financial planners worth their salt parrot the same mantra, as do respected magazines such as Consumer Reports, Forbes, Money, and many others. The revolution Primerica launched continues to evolve today. And that is good for the average Joe out there.

Having witnessed attacks against Primerica for fifteen years, I realize there will always be detractors out there and that we will never reach them. I do wonder, however, why you don’t see the same against the so-called traditional insurance companies. It leads me to believe that most of the posts and complaints I have read over the last decade and a half come not from John Q. Citizen, but traditional life insurance agents and their proxies.
Much of the rest come from people who embrace every conspiracy they hear and simply repeat what they read….

Primerica is a MLM company
Primerica is a pyramid scheme
Tthe representative who work for Primerica are evil and ignorant, they don’t know what they are selling
The representatives are not “professional”
Primerica is about to go bankrupt

Goodness, the list goes on for infinity. Despite all this tired diatribe, Primerica continues to be the largest and most successful marketing company on earth.

Let me pose a question to you as an average Joe. The large insurance companies can sell Term just like us. Why do you suppose they opt to sell you their most expensive product (Whole Life)? You got it. To make more money.

Now the follow up question. If the agent sold you his most expensive product, did he do it to benefit your family, or his?

Your ponder those questions and think with logic rather than emotion. As for the life insurance agents, I really don’t care about your opinions. I have sat across the table with whole life agents with clients to debate which type of insurance is best for the client. Wanna guess who won?

I am not an arrogant snob. I am open to different perspectives and understand that NO company is perfect. By the way, NO client is perfect either.

But, I have met a lot of arrogant life insurance agents working for the major firms who spend more time on the golf course while their underpaid secretaries do the work than they do in front of families.

We at Primerica make a heck of a lot less on an insurance commission than the traditional whole life guy. But we are eager to help people and will visit them multiple times to satisfy them and provide the most professional advice we can offer. We don’t have secretaries, we don’t demand you come to our office, we don’t wear costumes (starched shirts and $80.00 ties) to impress you with how we dress.

What we do is offer you, free of charge, the most important thing a person has, and that is his time. AS for our expertise, we have the same credentials that the other guys have, and probably a lot more.

Those of us who have been around for awhile are seasoned, well trained and extremely motivated. We truly enjoy seeing people improve their lives and stick to the old creed, “Give people what they want and you will get what you want.”

Thank you for your time,

Mike

Every scenario there is posed from a very unique point of view but lets be practical.

What makes a captive term agent claiming to do the right thing any better than your alleged crooked whole life agents?

I mean it isn’t like such an agent who claims to believe in buy term and invest the difference could or would compare among good term carriers in order to make sure he/she sells the best term product for the lowest cost.

It isn’t like such an agent who claims to believe in invest the difference would ever fail to tell their clients that in times of unstable markets they have the OPTION of added guarantees to fund their retirement by using fixed indexed products right?

Why stick them with non-guaranteed securities only (without full regard to risk tolerance) and not even give them a choice?
Could it be because one cannot offer what one is not allowed to sell?
Isn’t it kind of deceptive to claim to do what’s right when you know you are not allowed to be truly objective?
If a client told me he/she wants the lowest possible risk of principal loss I would not stick him/her with securities. Why would you?

Forget the whole life agent rah-rah.

Lets talk term agent to term agent.

What makes your term so good that a client is forced to pay nearly double the premium and unisex rates?

Maybe you don’t charge anything but every time a client buys an expensive policy and is not told he could have saved money by going with company ABC instead of PFF…
Isn’t that client paying a price for not knowing?

Ahhhh the quotes…
“-Give people what they want…”

How can one give people what they want if one doesn’t have it?
Can you sell Disability Insurance?
Fixed Indexed annuities?
Commercial lines?
Critical Care insurance?
RIA?

What if I am 73 years old and I ask you for Life Insurance… I may have a very good reason to buy it at that age. I am sure you know why since you are so well trained in estate preservation planning.

Could you give me what I want?
Would you even try to issue term at that age?
Are you sure that the reason that companies create other insurance products is not because there is a market for them?
Maybe the reason why products like WL, UL, Term exist is because they are for specific uses.
Planners work with clients based on the client’s specific needs and no good planner will go around saying buy term and invest the difference until the client is analyzed.
Why that would be like prescription before diagnosis wouldn’t it?

It’s always amusing to me to read these. 100,000 Zombies with canned responses. I’m sure I’ll be the next to get one.

So tell me, what is the maximum issue age for your term policies?

Why are Primerica 35 year term policies only guaranteed for 20 years?

Why is Return of Premium Term a fast growing market segment in life insurance?

What about grandparents wanting to leave a tax free death benefit to their heirs?

What about the great Term websites out there that will get you a cheaper policy by a higher rated company?

Why do you sell MetLife Variable Annuities? Genworth Long Term Care? Why can’t Primerica develop their own products in these lines?

Why focus the attack on whole life insurance? Some life insurance policies now even index to the S&P 500.

Your turn zombies, eat my brains…

At the moment, I am going through the Primerica process and have chosen not to recruit until I am licensed. It’s a choice I make because I prefer to be very educated before passing on my wealth of knowledge.

While every company will always have people rooting against it, what upsets me is the talk about Life Insurance by persons who a) don’t know the market, b) think that because they know a few “big words” have a right to discuss the market and c) have never taken a State course on the market.

Why did I mention a course or class, etc? Because the State books on Life Insurance and Variable Annuity will scare the crap out of you. There are so many more loop holes with Whole Life than Term life no matter which way you stuff it. Some of the Cash Values ARE taxed and you end up getting none or very little of what, by law, is YOURS.

Call me a sucker, but I’d prefer to put the rest of MY hard earned money into investments than have it sit in a pot that Whole Insurance companies use to pay for their services.

As for a pyramid scheme, isn’t everything? As for the hard work – do you expect to get something for nothing? Hmm… let’s ponder that, shall we?

Jace, how can the company would let you recruit without having your license anyway? This is quite scary if they do! How can you recruit somebody and train him if you haven’t sell one life insurance? I hope that it is not only a choice but a requirement.

I don’t know about the US, but in Canada, every single insurance company has term insurance product so Primerica is definitely not inventing the wheel here. In Canada, you could sell all kind of life insurance (whole life and term life) and make much more commission with Manulife, Maritime Life, London Life, Great West life, Clarica, Sun Life and so on. They ALL offer term life insurance and they offer bigger commission structures.

The only difference with Primerica is that they offer the MLM structure where you make a cut on your recruits. I have written several post on this company and nobody opposed my point: the best way of making Primerica is the following:
- Recuit a guy
- Make 5 – 10 first sell with his closed friends and relatives (easy referral)
- Earn full commission on those as he is on “training”
- Once “trained”, make this guy recruit another guy and do the same thing so you can earn a quick buck on the first 5-10 sell.
- And so on and on….

Am I wrong or what?

[...] in hand, they are shipped to their relatives’ house in order to sell them financial product. Primerica was able to build complete questionnaires that are filled by the client with the advisor and then [...]

Let me begin with a caveat here, I am not bashing PRIMERICA but their day has come and gone. Exposed by the Internet …ill read the tombstone.

The mantra of : ” We are the only company out there taking care of mddle income America. ” …is but hollow words.

Anyone can go online today and find 1100 companies with cheaper term than Primerica because they are not paying 11 generations down.

For many of the old timers of 20 years (and it still may be the same, although, I can not attest to that), their money was made at fast-start schools.

They would block at 400 rooms, then sell them to the downline at double he price but for cash. They would put all the room charges on a credit card as a business expense.

They also collected $5 at the door both days of the school to pay for the big ballroom.

Well, when you take 400 rooms…the hotel gives you the ballroom.

What they were doing was fleecing their people in concert without outright tax evasion by not reporting the room reimbursement cash.

This is why they were doing a fast start school every 6 weeks, as the skim was close to $20,000 a school.

I KNOW HOW IT WORKED BECAQUSE I GREW UP WITH THE FELLOW WHO STARTED IT, JOE ENSOR.

Unfortnately, my friend of 40 years passed away at the young age of 58 which was too young for such a lovable rascal.

I recall vividly when we were having lunch on the New York City watefront and I asked him if he was worried aboutg getting caught. His response was somewhat comical when he said: : ” Who would blow the whistle? These people are so stupid all I have to do is give them some $2 -shirt, a title and tell them they are getting promoted. ”

Primerica has had to change their ” complexional ” image and it refelcts n the new salesorce.

Best of success to anyone in it …but it is a dying entity.

Fran Maguire

Just an added note, I noticed that in a few posts above their is some war of words going on, assumedly, bewteen someone from Primerica and, apaprently, someone who is not, relative to term, older people and estate planning.

Both arguments being made are self-serving, yet share a common denominator: Both parties are mis-informed.

I would not single either party out but, assumedly, you know who you are and if you e-mail me at: MaguirePhD@comcast.net, I will point you in the direction of information to make your argument more sound.

Again, best of success to all.

Respectfully,

Fran Maguire

Isn’t it true that you can’t get something for nothing? America was founded upon the capitalistic principal of equal opportunity for all. While we know that is not always the case, PFS offers anyone willing to dedicate themselves to the necessary hard work the opportunity to make and grow their own business. I’ll repeat: You can’t get something for nothing. In answer to that concept, we are required to do things that may seem out of our comfort zones to make the PFS opportunity work: recruit people. Call people and ask to meet with them. Put ourselves out on a limb for the sake of having our own financial freedom. The reason why there are so many detractors and nay-sayers out there is because these are the people who haven’t committed themselves to the hard work necessary to do this business. They are still brainwashed by the corporate middle-class mindset into thinking that anything other than a job in a cubicle farm with “benefits” must be a scam. That’s why the proportion of successful PFS agents to those who fail is so dramatic – way more people quit before they really commit to this. Open your eyes, people. Life is what you make it – if you want your life and your future to be owned by only YOU, and not a BOSS, you need to get out there and do the legwork required.

G.S.

If you want to make money, you need to work hard, regardless in which field you are working.

Just so you know, I just started my new job as a financial planner and I am already making the same thing (if it’s not more) than the person I know that has been working at Primerica for the past 4 years.

You think he is not working? man! he is working like there is no tomorrow and he is going to be VP within the next year. The result? he is making a decent income as an individual but this is a shitty income as a VP in “the corporate world”.

Why do the PFS people keep talking about owning their business?
Wake up PFS people!
You do not own squat there. It is a franchise and in a franchise the corporation has final say, control and onwership because they NOT YOU own the system.

If you own it why don’t you:

Open YOUR BUSINESS location anywhere you want at any level including below RVP?
Why can’t you sell YOUR BUSINESS to anyone other than people in the company?
Why is it that you cannot add any carriers or other services to YOUR BUSINESS?
Why is it that your logo has been chaged three times without your permission needed and your are forced to comply with that logo for YOUR BUSINESS?
Why must YOUR BUSINESS have products dictated to you?
Why can’t you add Disability Income to YOUR BUSINESS despite the opinion of the corporation?
Why is YOUR BUSINESS for sale without your approval or agreement?
You do know the real owner is officially selling that PFS unit as reported in several news outlets already and that it has been valued at a mere 7 billion!
So much for the guy claiming to be the heart and soul of Citi. 7 Billion is a bargain price.
Kind of like “I have an old car I want to get rid of” price.

What kind of business is this you own where a corporation tells you what to do, what to sell and forces you to network beyond a 50 mile radius?

You guys are not too bright. You keep talking all this junk about not having a boss and owning your business yet you have a boss. Yes, if a corporation tells you what you can and cannot do that is practically your boss and you don’t own jack there.
You guys don’t know what ownership is to begin with.

Sorry, but I just see a bunch of contradictions in everything you guys say and apparently even though everyone knows that ship is sinking you are all excited and in denial.

[...] Paradox Part 1, part 2, part 3 and the final conclusion on Primerica with part [...]

I was just wondering….. did you EVER think about learning the art of proofreading before endeavoring into the world of blogging. Simply amazing that you would do THIS and NOT actually take a second look at what you write. THINK about IT !!!!

[...] theme in personal finance than insurance? If you look at the furious battle of comments over my Primerica articles regarding insurance, you will see many points of view and terms (those guys brought the [...]

[...] an opinion on it. I have decided to present a series of three articles on Primerica: The Approach, The Discussion and The Final Conclusion on [...]

All of you can debate this all you want but Primerica is no more than under compensating the lower ranks, high priced Insurance, terrible underwriting, little organization, total control by RVP’s and above, total dependence on others to produce for you, telling everyone that you are doing something great for the world and being totally uneducated into thinking that one product fits everything. If that’s appealing to you then go for it. I’ve been on both sides with a very unique perspective of the industry. You will have to take my word for it or don’t. Your choice

and by the way if you think you are running your own business without a boss and without being controlled you are in for a rude awakening

After reading the comments it is apparent that the concept of being in business for yourself must be clarified.
Primerica has the best licensing process in the financial services industry.So if building a business in the industry is a concern to someone they should do the research necessary instead of just taking the OPINIONS of people on a blog.
Regarding the services that Primerica markets,they are just common sense such as purchasing low cost insurance,eliminating debt sooner and investing systematically in quality mutual funds and either making sure they can deduct these contributions or they can invest with tax free growth.I defy anyone to argue with that basic logic,it may not be fancy but if you stick with the plan it works.
Regarding the business opportunity if someone does not master there craft they do not deserve to receive the financial benefits the those that have receive.That goes for any business. So for those that pay the price to become fully licensed,get good at advising people about there basic finances and have the ability to hire and train a sales force may those people be greatly rewarded.In sports as well as any other field the superstars are always overpaid if you dont like that system then you need to question your beleif in the free enterprise system.
As for the pryamid scam comment grow up when you get started if you dont realize that Primerica uses a network marketing system you were simply not paying attention.For those that dont like the network marketing system then simply dont join Primerica.But for those that understand the system go for ! I have made milions of dollars running my primerica business at the same time I had many people tell me it couldnt be done.
Remember we are in a YOYO economy You On Your Own! If you want to have an unlimited income go into business for yourself if not Corporate America is more than happy to hire you and fire you at will.
Whatever you do make up your own mind and dont let the someones opinion sway you, base it on the facts!

I am a relatively new member of Primerica, and a I have had and am still a very productive person in middle management in corporate America. I have concerns about teh Primerica opportunity as well as great and utter excitement about it. that’s obvious or else I wouldn’t waste my time seeing what other people are saying about the oportunity. This is why I am still involved. I am an african American from a small town in MS, and grew up poor, but was very priveledged to attain significant collegiate education. The environment that I grew up in and the people that I know an dlove are unfortunately not very educated on finances, proper life insurance coverages, debt situations and how it effects general life. With that being said, the information and services that Primerica provides can significantly change all of their lives in a severely positive way compared to what the many generations of these people have been enduring. They only know of whatever insurance is brought to their whomes and think that they have done the responsible thing by buying 20 whole life or death, or burial policies to protect their families that add up to maybe 50K worth of cobverage for 200 dollars per month. They are simply being abused, ripped off, and discounted because of their ignorance. I know that my primerica products may not be the absolute cheapest option in America on all cases, but it is often a far better choice and option fo rthe people that would by the products. I would not expect every person in america to need Primericas’ services especially if they were privelidged in life to be properly educated, or their ancestors were properly insured and saving money in investments or saving period. Those of you that know of better options will use them, but will you go talk to families in your neighborhood to share with them your knowledge. Are you concerned with helping middle to low income families that may not have had your opportunities understand taht there are better options out there that could increase their way of life? For most of you, that doesn’t interest you and you probably don’t care if others are being taken advantage of or not. I pledge as a Primerica representative to never tell people that my product is the absolute best and only option in the world. I will tell them if my services are better than what they have. I will not sell my products to anyone that already has a better deal unless they just want too. I understand that I may not know everything you know about the financial industry but I pledge to continue to learn. I recruit because the people I know and meet may need the opportunity to go make money using a proven system like this if it is a right fit for them. I pledge to train to the best of my ability all those that come under me. I could continue to stay in corporate America and utilize a salaried system, or I could choose to help people and make money while doing it. I will not advertise for competitors by telling people that they could get a double cheeseburger at Burger King for 20 cents cheaper than my burger. That’s bad business. But if someone is paying for a filet mignon and recieving a spam burger, I will sell them my double quarter pounder and feel pretty darn good about it. I am making money, I am learning things about money and marketing that I can use in the future. I am leaving people in a better position than when I found them. That makes the Primerica opportunity a great opportunity to me. It is not for everybody and the services don’t neccesarily work those that are priveledged to have always known similiar information. But we must realize that everyone was not born in prosperity, or high education, or even moderate eductaion. We do what’s right because the people that actually sign up know that it is right or better than what they had. If someone is selling something to someone that does not make them better then shame on them. You can be an honorable person and do this business the right way and not have any misgivings about it. All of the debate that’s going on is fun, but it is irrelevant because if you can do better than Primerica and what it offers, you probably already are. Don’t try to stop the people that are not as fortunate as you are from increasing their quality of life simply because you feel that financial education is a norm for everybody. My ten cents$$

Mark I don’t mean to be harse, but what are you doing that’s different than the person who sol people the WL products? You are possibly offering a product to people with lower benefits for a higher cost than what hey can get elsewhere. Instead of WL vs term it’s now Term vs Term. It’s about coverage..

You say “They are simply being abused, ripped off, and discounted because of their ignorance”.. That’s a reason some of us left PFS. We felt the same way. I was sold on the crusade and then I found out it was about sales…

Answer This:

What I am doing that is different is giving people 5 to 10 times the amount of coverage for the period of time that they really need life insurance than they have for less money than they are paying now and showing them how they can use some of those savings that I have freed up to get some kind of investments. Which in most cases the family has never had. If they are a family that are very familiar with investments then they probably already have them and can tell me what they need or want to do. If they are totally uneducated in investin and saving then I can at least introduce them to the world of IRA’s and mutual funds. That savings is better than no savings. So you see. I am leaving the family in a much better position than when I met them. When you were wih PFS, didn’t you help people? You say you were sold on the crusade? Did you hold strong to the crusade or did you change and focus on the sales? I plan to keep the crusade in mind. I plan to leave people in a better position so that they have enough money to take care of their needs if the main bread winner dies. If I can’t do that then I don’t want the sale. I think that as an individual, you have the responsibility of doing the right thing for the family. The right thing is not always the best possible thing in the world. But if it will put a family’s financial future in a safer place, isn’t that a worthy cause. Back to your question. Most WL policies I replace are 10K polices for 40 dollars. I am often able to give the same families at least 250K for that price. If the insured dies in this scenario, who did the right thing for the client’s family? I rest my case. And thank you for your polite question and response. I didn’t think it was harsh at all.

My point is when i was at PFS i thought i was doing what’s best for my clients. I was doing what was best for PFS. I could have given my clients more coverage for the same or less money. Not to mention the fees with other products.

Once i educated myself a bit about other companies and what other products on the market that’s when I understood if I wanted to do the what was possibly best for the client it couldn’t be done with one company. As a PFS agent your loyalty is to PFS not the client. You have to use your best efforts to push PFS products.

Just as you say you discovered a way to help people all I’m saying is there is another level. What if for the same amount you could give the client $350K for the same premium. In that case which is right for the family? Let me say this. Keep an open mind and look outside PFS for some industry education.

As for the crusade for me it’s just expanded quite a bit. I just have more tools at my disposal and what I don’t have I am free to go out in the open market and find a carrier that has a product that can fit the needs of my client.

When I see clients my goal isn’t to leave them in a better position than before I got there, I want to leave them in the best position possible going forward. You can’t make that statement with a limited supply of products. Do a comparison of your products compared to the open market. I’m sure you will see the difference in premiums and fees…

Once you become licensed it’s not PFS who is directly doing anything for the client. It’s you the licensed agent. PFS just gives you the products to sell. If your personal goal is to help people and save them money you can do the same thing and more outside of PFS. So you see we the former PFS reps. are still committed we just have a different platform which allows us to services our clients as best as we can not by being limited products or carriers.

Just as some of your clients may be limited in their financial education at PFS the agents a limited in industry opportunities

Answer This:

Isee your point and understand your position better now. I commend the work that you are doing and wish you all of the success in the world. sounds like its working out for you. Is it profitable doing it the way that you are doing it, and how much support do you have. I enjoy the support structure that comes along with Primerica. I will concede that your approach can give you the opportunity to do the very best for your client, assuming that you are not tied down to any of your insurers by rules and regulations like a captive agency. There… A Primerica rep admitted that someone could possibly do what’s right for their client in the realm of life insurance better than Primerica can. But how many people are like you? Are there over 100,000 reps doing what your doing with the same mindset? I think that you can make the difference in some lives, but collectively Primerica can make the difference 999,999 times better than you can because of the system that is in place. their clients are in a better place than where they were in insurance, investments, debt reduction/cancellation, auto and home insurance, and in legal services. Do you still have the capability in helping them in a wholistic way like we can? Either way, I’m proud of you. I don’t feel bad about my business or what we do because I know that I helped everyone that I have serviced to this point. Maybe one day I will learn so much and gain the credentials to go out on my own like you and maximize my earning potential as well as my potential to put my clients in the perfect products. But until then I have found the opportunity to take care of my family, earn significant income that can help me bless my community, help families put their lives back on track and sleep well knowing that I did a good thing. If you’d like to share your industry secrets with me I’d be happy to look into them. I must say though that I work directly with over five individuals in PFS that earn 350K or more and they are wonderful people. I know their clients and see how much they are loved and respected. I see a possibility for me to surpass the limits that my career had and achieve great things in a honest way. That’s why I’m dedicated. But time and experience is a great teacher I guess. You sound reasonable, so I guess we can just agree that we have different levels of committment to do the same thing. I am offering the Rolls Royce of Term Insurance in my opinion, and you may well be offering a Rolls Royce with added Satelite radio. Our customers are still happier than the majority of people that have been bamboozled into purxchasing less than adequate insurance protection for their families and assets. My hats off to you..

oops I meant to say 99,999 times in the earlier posts. And no, I did not do any real math for my statistics. I just subtracted 1 from the 100,000 licensed reps that PFS has on the books.

Mark one of my issue with PFS was being led to believe that they were the be all to end all. Everyone else was evil except them. They were the only company who was doing what’s right. Then I did some battles on message boards and was confronted with facts. Something to understand is PFS has designed their system so it’s basically easy. You don’t have to do too much education. Once you step out of PFS and have access to more products and carriers there’s a bit more of education because different carriers are a better fit for some risk. especially when you run into an impaired risk.

If you only listen to the PFS agents you would think everything is rosy and PFS has no competition. That’s just not true. BTID was big with the boomers but now the boomers are going toward safety and distribution. As for investing your going to see a major change to the use of active money managers rather than just put someone in a MF and let them just contribute. Times change.

What I think is kind of strange is I will hear a PFS agent promote Robert Kiyosaki yet if you read his latest book he does not like MF’s.
Then other agents will quote Dave Ramsey or Suzy Orman when talking about Term. Well they suggest that people shop for their coverage. They don’t tell people about the shopping part.

Basically coming into the industry green with one reference point many people just don’t know what they don’t know. Once I found out a few things I felt like a fool because I took in everything my RVP/NSD
told me as Gospel. I felt Hoodwinked, Bamboozled and to an extent lied to…

Here’s a link I came across on another insurance agents message board. It just gives another side to the argument. Nothing is 100%
http://whywholelife.com/videos/ (posted for educational purposes only)

Just remember there is no incentive for PFS or your RVP to educate you on other opportunities in the industry. Your obligated to market PFS products to your best ability. Ask yourself this. If you are an independent contractor (1099) and PFS doesn’t have a product you would like to market why do they restrict you from going out and selling that product? Especially if you are part-time with no desire to be full-time in the industry…

Keep your eyes and ears open and don’t fall for all the hype. It’s business. PFS is not the only organization that offers Term and investments… Read your IBA.. As for my reason it comes from understanding there’s a business side to all of this. You’ll see products are a rip off until PFS offers them.

For example you may see some post saying guarantees arn’t important but from what I read on another message board PFS is coming out with a fully guaranteed product beyond 20 years. I don’t know if it’s true, but PFS does business with Genworth and MET Life
who offer Perm. products..Hmmmm

It’s not good for the client to shop Life coverage but it’s good when it come to Home/Auto. Hmmmmmm

On LTC business in side PFS renewals are paid only at certain levels. Outside of PFS LTC renewals are paid to the writing agent. same with the Legal plans. Hmmmmmm..

There’s more but I’m sure you get the point.