The Primerica Paradox: The Approach

Cool story –

jump in the train of financial freedom

I would rewrite that line as:

jump in front of the train of “financial freedom”

Mike

Interesting experience FB. While it is true that ppl with money drive nicer cars, but it’s not true for all. How about the frugal peeps out there that don’t believe in fancy cars? Like the billionaire who owns Ikea.. he drives an old volvo.

MDJ, you surely have a point there. However, most top salesmen/saleswomen love to flash. There are frugal people that won’t buy a 50K + car because it’s really expensive compare to what you get in return. But what’s the point of being frugal when you don’t work much and you are making 250K + a year? This is basically what they were selling in the presentation.

I can be wrong, but if I can buy your car with my smallest credit card, you will not become my financial advisor

Mike, you just made my life brighter with this comment

I’ve been into their meetings. They are just another Quickstar/Amway creatures. According to me, Primerica is a bunch of clowns trying to sell a product they have no clue what it is!

I don’t know what Primerica is, but sounds from the description that they are multi-level marketers. I once got an in-home presentation from someone selling financial products. She gave us a salespitch that made her look smart and was fairly similar to what you describe, so maybe she was from that organization although she didn’t say so. Anyway, being in the corporate finance biz I asked her a couple of fairly easy questions about her products and she just blatantly lied. I could tell because her answers didn’t make sense so I assume she didn’t know the answer and just made something up; she was just trying to get me to pump some money into whatever she was selling.

I have no ingrained prejudice against multi-level marketing but I do find that they are given a bad name by people who are sucked in by the “I can get me a BMW” instead of “This is my chance to build a business.”

I also attended some Primerica sessions. They were very charismatic, slick, and strongly selling the idea of financial freedom (the warning bells were ringing loudly by that point). I never did take them that seriously and I was very wary of them. However, I did sign up for their LLQP course since is was being offered far cheaper than CSI was offering it.

What I did learn in their version of the LLQP course was that they had no idea what they were doing. I could have taught the course better than their instructor as I had better financial knowledge – it was a joke! I then ran away knowing that I’d never buy anything from that bunch of jokers.

Of course, that was just my opinion.

From my experience there, Primerica is a pyramid scheme repackaged with financial services such as life insurance and such.

One data from their slides drew my eyes for a moment, but after questioning the presenter, I knew that they were bullshitting.

There’s this fund that gives 30% return annually which you can only buy after you join their sales staff. The fact that they say they are some type of affiliate with Citigroup is supposed to establish confidence in people. I wondered what type of affiliate they are.

CR, in fact, even if you have the “I can get me a BMW”, it doesn’t mean that you are incompetent. I have dealt with several financial planner through my job and the best one in term of knowledge product and client service were making a lot of money and, therefore, driving nice cars. In this type of business, you are building your business through the word of mouth of your clients. If you don’t know what you are doing, you will not succeed.

WC, I find that Primerica’s training program was very thin compare to the real world of financial product. However, I will discuss this point later on in my series.

Causalien, from the best of my knowledge, they belong to Citigroup. It was a smart way for Citigroup to offer financial products a very different way than through CitiBank.

I agree with you that smart and competent people can become successful. I suspect that the financial planners you know spend more time thinking about how to help customers and improve their skills than “get me the BMW”. That’s the contrast I was making. First start with making sure you provide lots of value; it’s at the front of every good sales manual.

[...] This post over here at Online College Blog Shows MBA deals — not one single dog! The Financial Blogger might knock off your socks With posts on The Primerica Paradox. [...]

[...] This post over here at Online College Blog Shows MBA deals — not one single dog! The Financial Blogger might knock off your socks With posts on The Primerica Paradox. [...]

[...] week, I wrote about my first experience with Primerica and their incredible ability to convince people to work for them. However, I was about to encounter [...]

I’m looking for a company for my investments. I have a london life policy from my parents. I figured I would shop around to see whats out there for life insurance and retirement. The london life rep was no help at all, he just gave me a couple of figures and explained that if it wasn’t for my exisiting itty bitty plan from my mother he would not have wasted his time coming over. I found him so rude, cocky and arrogant. NOW, I know a woman who started with primerica over 4 yrs ago, she never invited me to a meeting or even bothered me about investments. I remembered she was in the business and gave her a call. She spent time and explained the policies. She did asked for the rerrerals. Fine, i dont have a problem with that but what I want answered is, if primerica is a company worth investing in?????

[...] the summer of my junior/senior year of college until I read The Financial Blogger’s article The Primerica Paradox. The article says it all. They’re a scam. Luckily I don’t remember losing much money [...]

Investment V,
I am not saying that the company itself is bad. In fact, Primerica might offer really good product, I did not analyse their products. I am more confused about the way they recruit their representative and the way they advertise themselves.

However, you must know that Primerica belongs to CitiGroup who is a major actor in the financial industry.

In order to find a good consultant, I would strongly suggest that you meet with three consultants from three different companies. It requires more time and effort but at least, you will be able to compare their offer of service and the way they treat you. Unfortunately, you can find clowns (like you LL guy) in any companies

[...] obvious reasons why I decided that this company was not made for me. So after reading more about the way they approach people and their speech, I am presenting my personal conclusion on [...]

how come I can not find ANYTHING on Primerica except for people talking about working for them or trying to work for them???? They are supposed to be this big whoop dee doo for helping the American middle-class but I can’t find anyone who has refinanced their mortgages/bills with Primerica. No-one. That strikes me as very very odd. They build themselves up to be this great company who actually cares about the people that are carrying the American economy on their backs but where and who are these people??? What also makes me quite suspicious is the fact that their “parent” is Citigroup, one of the biggest predatory lenders (http://www.innercitypress.org/citi.html) in North America and also globally with Citifinancial.

I was interested in what a friend of mine said was a company that is concerned about people like me and my financial situation and I have gone into this Primerica thing without prejudice but after countless hours of research online all I can find is people complaining about Primerica and their pyramid scheme like system. I personally don’t care about how other people want to work or not work. It is their choice. I care about what Primerica claims they can do for me in the financial world but the more I look into this company the more convinced I am that it is nothing but some kind of scam and that has a lot to do with the fact that it seems as though nobody in America has taken a loan from them.

If there is anyone out there that has taken a loan from this company, whether you had a good experience or a bad one, please…I would like some input on this. Anything not pertaining to employment. I had my 1st meeting with their financial advisor last night and she talked a wonderful pretty game but I can find no evidence to back up (or not back up) her pretty words……

Sam, I would suggest to prepare your questions and ask a bunch of them. You will be able to find if your advisor knows her stuff or not

BTW, most companies in the financial industries will obviously claim that they are for you to help you out realizing your dreams and retire happy and so on. It is just a sales pitch like any other.

I’m interested in cults and cult-type pyramid-type groups. What I mean is, I’ve been reading up on Amway with no intention to join. If you’d just changed the words to Amway, this whole event sounds exactly like things I’ve read about from people who got out of it. Right down to the whole having time for their kids (one person who got rather high said that he actually didn’t have time for his kids but was told to do things like go to one practice and say that he goes to his son’s practice. Or go golfing and make that one experience seem like he spends every day at the country club).

The sad thing is that people who are faced with the fact that they’re not making any money continue to buy into the myth. Because they think everybody else is and so it’s their fault. Or that they can eventually. I look forward to reading your next post on this!

Mrs. Micah,
I just created the Primerica Series in my categories so you can check my 4 posts on this topic

I read with amusement and sadness the comments about Primerica. Quite remarkable that no one posted in this blog a single compliment anyone from Primerica. Instead, the trumpet terms such as pyramid, rip-off, money-making, incompetent, uneducated, etc.

I have worked for Primerica for 15 years. I am very proud that I have helped people take control of their financial futures by showing them how to create a budget, buy the right type and amount of life insurance (term, with adequate coverage….just what most financial journals recommend as well as Consumer Reports), quality mutual funds to establish emergency funds and IRA’s and more importantly, hands-on attention through multiple visits (at the client’s home for their convenience) the way doctors used to make house calls.

With the plethora of advertisements from financial companies today, most people are overwhelmed with too much information,and this leads to analysis paralysis. I believe the majority of people involved in the financial services are sincerely interested in helping their clients succeed in their financial goals.

Because most of the principles we show to people are simple and easily implemented, our detractors often hurl diatribe at us. But that is the nature of competition. I myself refrain from disparaging our competition as I hold to what Abraham Lincoln once said, “A short man cannot make himself any taller by cutting off a tall man’s legs.”

In Rip-Off Report we were criticized for years. Finally, once we were given the opportunity to present OUR side of the story, Rip-Off Report reversed course and actually complimented our company for our efforts to educate the consumer.

Are we trying to make money? You betcha! Just like any other person in a capitalistic system. Do we provide a valuable service to people? You betcha. With so many people in financial distress today, they need a helping hand and the discipline to manage their money more efficiently and effectively. Are our principles easy to understand? Yes!! Effective communication should be based upon making the information easy for the client to recognize and comprehend.

What is our philosophy? Simple. People should assume control of their financial lives by getting the knowledge they need to create a successful game plan. If this means working with us to supplement their income, replacing their full-time job with a career with us, or even going to another job to increase their income, then they should do it.

Our plan is predicated upon four major ideas.

First, get the proper type and amount of life insurance. We market only TERM, and most legitimate financial planners and magazines recommend term!

Second, establish an emergency fund so that the client does not have to eat his future by taking money out of his retirement plans.

Third, establish an IRA to meet your retirement goal.

Fourth, and this is most important, providing our clients a free, confidential financial analysis that identifies their strengths and weaknesses and provides a strategy to reach their goals.

We market mainly to the middle class, the group that is often passed over by the large investment firms in favor of the wealthy. Having done this for so long, I have seen a lot of personal crisis out there. What a truly rewarding experience it is to spend time with a person and, by providing him easy to understand solutions, help him implement a strategy and exercise the discipline to become the captains of their ships, the masters of their fate.

Primerica is not a perfect company. No one writing here is perfect. Nevertheless, Primerica is a valuable company because its strength lay with its members who have the passion to truly help people. Most of the people I have been associated with over the years truly wants to help better a person’s financial situation.

We do not require our members to be rocket scientists or college educated. We do require they undergo training and get the same licenses and meet the same requirements that other financial instutitions require. I myself have two Baccalaureates and a Master’s Degree. However, the education and training I received from Primerica is what has allowed me to truly serve my clients. My college degrees certainly help when it comes to confidence and communication, but the concepts I illustrate to my clients are really quite simple to understand.

As for Primerica being a “pyramid,” this is almost too silly to reply to. Pyramids are illegal. Anyone having any evidence that we hire people and get paid just to hire them should bring their little and loud complaint to the FTC. This pyramid labeling has been used for over two decades and their is no evidence to support this dogma.

Does everybody who works with us make a lot of money? Nope! Most are part-time and are content helping family members and friends. They wanted to supplement their income and Primerica afforded them the opportunity to do so.

Now, because the majority of people employed with Primerica are not rich, does this mean we are not a legitimate company? Nope! The majority of Americans are not rich. Does this mean that capitalism does not work? Only 1 or 2 percent of Boy Scouts become Eagle Scouts. Does this mean the Boy Scouts are a rip-off organization?

I could go on and on with examples that simply deflate and expose the false accusations against us. But I know you cannot please all the people all the time. There will always be unhappy people who criticize ANYTHING….no company is good enough for them. Or, you get the shady insurance man who attacks us under the guise of a consumer to inject doubt about what we do. We cannot stop that. It is simply human nature.

I can tell you this. Primerica changed my life. The education I received, the friendships I forged, the relationships with my clients….all have enriched my life. I celebrate with my clients as their portfolios grow and their confidence increases. I also appreciate the fact that I am able to actually get paid to help people while taking pride knowing I am doing the right thing for my clients.

For those who have had bad experiences with Primerica, I am sorry. For those who are our competitors who criticize nearly everything we do and pen untrue or personal attacks, I feel sorry for you. Spend more time building your business than you do attacking us and you may provide a better income for your family. For those of you who may be curious about Primerica, please don’t be scared to contact one of us. Judge our performance and products for yourself rather than wasting your time reading comments posted on a blog.

Mike

I can

[...] reading Michael’s comment on my first post on Primerica, I realized that I should bring another point regarding personal finance companies. While I still [...]

Was a licensed PFS rep in Northern California in the mid-’90s…part of the Hector La Marque/Rick Susie downline.

Went to a lot of meetings, seminars and pep rallies. (Even one with the illustrious Joe Plumeri and Pete Dawkins – now ousted PFS exec alum.)

Was around when they were piloting the FNA – and around during the Sandy Weill Travelers/Citigroup merger.

Sold one policy. Simply dropped-out due to lack of sales.

Now, 10 years later, a couple of key observations:

* I look up on California’s Department of Insurance website and look for all my old PFS group’s agents’ license status…Kevin Morris…Shane Daly…RVP David Clay Harrison…RVP Ed Jensen . They’re all Inactive Status. Gone. All were Gung-Ho PFS.

* PFS was started by Art Williams, and founded on some good concepts. They got BIG during the MILICO days and really stepped on a lot of toes in the insurance biz. (Not that toes shouldn’t have been stepped-on.)

* With every successive generation of Primerica AFTER Art: Plumeri…Weill…Citigroup, etc….they’ve moved farther and farther AWAY from the original, simple vision.

* I’m not an agent for them, but it appears that the ONLY company that’s actually ‘carrying-the-torch’ for the ORIGINAL concept/legacy of Art Williams’ PFS is CAPITAL CHOICE FINANCIAL SERVICES. Check these guys out.

Peace.

- orbal1

I’m truly amazed I just read an honest opinion aboput Primerica that doesn’t seem to lean either way. I have experience with MLM and I am just just starting out with Primerica. I to was surprised by the unskillful presentation that I was given and can see why some would condemn them if all they see is that. I am currently in the process of signing on with Primerica as I see alot of potential there and look forward to opening an office of my own. My main concern is that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. My office will not suffer from these shortcomings when it happens and I’m sure that there are good and bad offices out there you just need to find the right people. I am not impressed by what I’ve heard but do see a lot of potential if some more knowledgeable people would get involved. Also I am not fond of the referal process but you have to look past that. Didn’t mean to say so much just great job I like your style I’m going to read more of your reports now. ThankYou

[...] As an example, if a life insurance of 100K would provide another agent with $1,500 in commission, a Primerica advisor at the lowest level will earn $900, then his recruiter will receive $300, the recruiter’s [...]

This is in reply to Sam #18,

I am not with Primerica but a answer to your question is to check out Chris Wondra.

His web site is:
http://chriswondra.com/2007/11/24/primerica-mortgage-a-consumer-report/

In reply to Sam #18.

I re-financed my rental house with Primerica’s smart loan. Replaced an ARM, it was ready to triple in price. My monthly payments went down $50/month it is a bi-weekly product and I will have it paid off in 9 years vs. the 26 remaining on the original loan. It works.

I also have over $100,000 invested woth PFS investments. Quality funds from Van Kampen, Legg Mason and American Finds. I moved from a prominent broker in Houston, I was with them for 5 years from 2002-2007 there best perforing year was 6%, in the same period my PFS portfolio had 3 years with rates of return over 16%.

I recommend them, not all, do your due diligence and find someone your comfortable with if you do not know someone who is affiliated with the company. I thank my ex-wife for introducing me to them.

Mike

Mike;

This is only one thing that bugs me: You cannot mathematically pay a debt faster with a smaller amount. Did you make a consolidation loan and you are considering the final picture?

i see that most of the poeple who have posted comments talking bad about primerica are just a bunch of ignorant people who are in need of information i feel sorry as to how close minded you really are. i work for primerica and i know what is like to change people points of view and open their eyes to how financially mess up they really are and how we can help them. there isnt any other company outthere where the people as as nice and as willing to help each other out as in primerica. You know before any of you people talk bad about a company you should do your research from creditable sources not just from BS comments that you read from people who have no financial intelligence at al.. i read a comment about someone asking if they should invest with primerica ofcourse you should we are affiliated with leggmason and we have acess to the best mutual fund companies out there in its respective category. we have absolutely the best of the best in everything from life products to loan products to investment options. For those people talking bad about our company i truly feel sorry for you because unfortunally because of your lack of intelligence your families will suffer financially for the rest of their existence.

To respond to post # 29, dated March 13th…. The reason Primerica’s “SMART” loan does pay down faster (it cannibalizes itself basically) is because it is a SIMPLE INTEREST loan, as opposed to a 30 DAY SCHEDULED INTEREST loan like 99 % of all other loans. In a typical (non-Primerica) loan, if you try to pay off your debt faster using biweekly payments, your lender actually holds these payments until the 30th day of the payment cycle – when you verify what I’m saying with your own loan, please be sure to check with a branch supervisor – as most line staff actually assume your payments are immediately posted to the loan. Conversely, the SMART loan uses simple interest (not scheduled) and thus every time you make a payment, it recalculates and re-amortizes immediately. So the next payment you make that month is applied to a smaller balance. It’s great! I’ve enjoyed being completely debt free for 5 years now – I would urge people to look at the content of what Primerica offers, like Mike did… Do the math, you’ll like what you see.

One of their advisor came home today to try and sell me life insurances. When she saw that I was not interested in life insurances, she tried to get me to be an advisor too. She claimed being able, after 3 years, to stay home and make 65 000$ net without doing anything since she’s a VP. Funny though, I made myself the remark that she was driving a small VW Gulf while I owned a Honda + a Hyunday. Who needs financial advise? Besides, how can someone who used to have LOTS of financial problems (as she says herself) be able to help me solve my own “problems” (if problem there is!)???

Anyhow, it didn’t take me long to decide that I was not going to fall for this joke. I can do the math and, quite honestly, my math doesn’t match primerica’s.

Isabelle,

Have you considered that fact that since she went through the problems, that she would have experience of what the stress is like and didn’t want someone else to go through with it? Or the fact that you are expendable at your job and could get into the same problem she was in?

Judging what someone else knows or does by how they look and drive is quite shallow. Bill Gates drives a ‘08 Focus.

And just because you claim to not have problems, does not mean you don’t. Financial problems are funny things. They tend to hide and not be noticed until it is too late.

Another thing, there is not a single advisor contracted to Primerica. They are all analysts. Advisor’s require government certification. The difference between the two types, based solely on the information given to the clients, is nothing. Advisors have the option to charge you for the advice, analysts typically do not.

this is a fair assessment. But not everyone in this world in making 100,000 a year. Even in primerica or any other industry or job the people who work hard are rewarded. Not everybody is a millionaire in primerica not everybody is a millionaire owning a mcdonalds franchise it takes a special kind of person, timing, perseverance and a bit of luck to make it in my opinion. I have looked at many opportunities mlm and i think the only reason they have a bad name is people do not follow proper business principles and ethics. They do not treat it as a business. People who do and work hard at it are successful that is present in every facet of life. It is all about what you want and how you perceive the situation if you are all about helping people then this industry is right for you. Unfortunately most people are just looking to make a quick buck or two. I am 20 years old and i have learned that much about the business world. Just be honest and straightforward with people and they will honest and straightforward with people. If you do not like to do something no one can force you to do it. We need to stop blaming other people and circumstances for our current situation. It is us who are responsible for our lives. Thats all i had to say. thankyou

I can see everybody’s point of view about Primerica. Some of it I agree with and some I don’t. First of all, I don’t think it’s a scam…I joined about 8 months ago and I have only made a few thousand dollars. I have definitely made more than I put into it. Plenty more. Worst case scenario, I got to experience some amazing people and I got a great education in financial services. It is all about recruiting though and the pressure is relentless.

The people that are at the top started where we did and they put their heart and soul into the business. But I think they were just destined to be a part of that business. I joined with the idea that I would be able to eventually I would start my own business, but I am beginning to see how insane the requirements are to get there and the time that you need to invest to make it happen. It’s just not realistic….for me.

I agree with the person who said that a lot of the people are not educated about the products and services. Fortunately, the person who is training me is very well educated and understands all aspects of the business. However, the company itself does make it very easy for reps to get licensed and sell the products without having a solid education in the different fields. The training is absolutely geared towards recruiting and not the services. The idea is that you can find someone who is hungry to learn the business, and they will grow yours for you, while growing theirs at the same time. The people that have opinions about this company that have not actually done it should be quiet! IT IS NOT A SCAM, but it is very difficult to succeed. It is not impossible though. It just depends on how committed you want to be.

But that’s just my opinion.

I had to laugh when I read this, thinking of my little mum who cruises around in her 1993 Buick. A former financial adviser, she is one of the wealthiest women I know and she loves that car- my father has bought new vehicles and she refuses to drive them- she prefers her old buick and she’ll drive it til it falls apart. I pity the people who failed to take her financial advice based on the vehicle she drives. I think that a more common sense approach for them, if they do exist, would have been to listen with an open mind to the financial solutions she presented, to develop an understanding of the products and services she was suggesting and to apply their knowledge and her advice to the betterment of their financial future. I’m not sure her vehicle should have been part of the equation really. When we were growing up, one of the richest men in our town drove a rusty old, beat up pick up- nobody knew why and it was really nobody’s business, but if he had ever sat me down and wanted to talk to me about building wealth, you’re damned right I would have listened, regardless of what he drove.

I am not criticizing this article with malicious intent- I completely respect your opinion and it would not be of any benefit to me to change it. I would like to point out though that while you state specifically that you did a ‘deep analysis’ of their financial model before forming an opinion, you state that the day after your first meeting with them you and your wife were ‘amused’ to see your friends ‘falling for the big umbrella’, which clearly shows that you had developed an opinion before your ‘deep analysis’. I know, however, that when researching and writing articles, this is one area where you have to be particularly alert since, generally speaking, human beings are known to have a tendency to look for information which backs up the opinions they have already formed, and the vaguely condescending tone of the article suggests that this may be the case with what you have done here.

Also, it wasn’t clear to me how or why you would have an opinion on the company when you clearly state that you didn’t look into their products. The products are the tools which enable the company to work with people’s finances, so by not understanding exactly what they offer, it would not be logical to feel you have a solid basis for an opinion on the company itself. This would sort of make offering such an opinion in the form of an article in a financial blog rather moot.

All in all it was a very interesting article.

Arion;

I was quite amused when I read that your mom has this kind of car. It proves that I may be wrong Seriously, I still believe that out of 100 people making 250K and more a year 98 of them will drive a very nice car. but there are exception everywhere.

It is true that my first impression of Primerica was negative. However, I seriously considered working for them after I spoke with my friend for the first them (see other articles on my blog in the Primerica series). This is why I think my opinion is not biased.

I couldn’t look into their product because they were not talking about them. The whole time spent with Primerica people was spent on saying how great they are and how making money was easy. However, I can tell you that I am working in the financial industry since 2003 and every company has the same product. It’s a matter of month to copy a good idea! Therefore, only the expertise and competency of your advisor will make a real difference.

Thank you for your opinion.

First of all, Mr/Ms Financial Bloggeryou’re not a banker.. You’re an “Employee.” The OWNER of the bank aka the CEO with majority stock in the company or the shareholders are the bankers.

As I studied, in Business & Finance.. Individuals with real wealth don’t drive Mercedez Benz’. You would know this too if you read the “Millionaire Next Door”. Since you had the most expensive car at the meeting, I’m guessing you’re probably the one with the most debt, who has a catalogue of GIC investments at your friendly bank (performing at 1-3% GUARANTEED) and you’re probably in the rat-race. How’s that for a fair assessment?

Such haters… Here is a company that is actually willing to give everyone a chance to succeed. They get people out of debt, they teach the average person about investing PROPERLY so that they can retire with dignity, and they have the integrity to market the right life insurance 100% of the time. The company has NEVER had a lawsuit with an uphappy life insurance client or been taken to court over business malpractice. They don’t sell trash value life insurance, mortgage insurance or all of those other financial products that are designed to keep the rich richer.

All of these positive things that they do on a daily basis, and yet you come online and bash them like they stole your milk money. lol. You obviously don’t have your facts straight.. Either you’re dumb, ignorant, or just scared to do something with your life. I bet it’s the Latter.

Like most people, you can’t cut it in the business environment. That’s why Business owners get paid so much. If it was easy, everyone would do it. In Business life is tough. Not like your 9 to 5 where you get up and kiss your boss’ butt all day. (oh, and did you know that your boss makes more money than you? And his boss makes more money than him? And the farther up the ladder you go, there’s less Directors and VP’s and CEO’s? So you’ll probably never get their position unless they die or quit? ) Just thought I’d toss that in there.

In Business, you have to FIND YOUR OWN CONTACTS, create a revolutionary product that will change the lives of millions of people, believe in your product/service when nobody else does, and go out into the world and market your product/service to ignorant people like yourself and get rejected time and time again… But of course there’s always the lucky fiew with some business sense that will see your vision. Then, when it’s all said and done, you can lay back and enjoy the fruits of your labour. Like W. Buffet, D. Trump, O. Winfrey, R. Kiyosaki and the list goes on.

In case you didn’t notice, they don’t work 9-5 as a “banker” and you won’t find them on BLOGS, dogging their fellow north american’s business. Especially one that helps people in EVERY FACET OF THEIR SERVICE, and has never done wrong in any clients’ eyes.

Get your knowledge up

V

I just read another one of your posts…

You have a Universal LIfe Insurance Policy? LMAO. Man, they got you good. I guess you must be ignorant and scared to do someting with your life.

Just look at the price a of a primerica policy for 100K, then invest the difference in a mutual fund at a conservative 8%. I’d bet that it will be FAR more than you UL “cash value” or “termination value” or whatever they call it these days. Those policies make NO sense. After all the fees/expenses, you’re most definately loosing money.

Ask Suze Orman about Universal Life Policies.. Damn, read a book “Financial Blogger”. Who are you to be giving advise to the average person? What have you accomplished?

V

V,

I guess you should read a second time. I used to have a universal policy. USED TO.

conservative 8%, huh? gimme fund names, I,ll be happy to review them
As far as I am concerned, Primerica Concert Series AGGRESSIVE portfolio is not making 8% over the past 10 years… take a look at this :
http://www.morningstar.ca/globalhome/quicktakes/Fund_Performance.asp?fundid=4190
10 yr: 6.6%….

I had fun reading your first comment talking about “hater”… who’s more aggressive? Did I bash anybody at Primerica? I’m pointing out facts. FACTS.

nobody ever got sued at Primerica:
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-mddce/case_no-8:2008cv01641/case_id-159674/
maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right, but please don’t tell me that Primerica is the only company in the world that never had any lawsuit in their whole history.. PLEASE!

Please, just type a few words in google before you comment next time.

BTW, I’m 26 with a positive networth, 2 kids and my only debt is my mortgage… so I guess you are not a storyteller yet since your assumptions are pretty far off my reality!

Anyway, have fun reading my blog

I did have fun reading your blog! More fun laughing though.

AGF Funds actually took over the convert series in 2002. Since then you’ll see that the fund has done 18% in 2003, 9.6% in 2004, 17.1% in 2005, 20.3% in 2006 and 2.4% in 2007 (a bear market) all on the same link which you sent me. Totaling a 5 year average of 13.5%.

Need more?
How about Primerica Common Sense Funds:
ALL of the Asset Builders 1-6 have rates of return since INCEPTION that border on 10%
2008 has been an awful year for investors and I can still list TONS of funds that average 10% that Primerica markets:
Trimark Income Growth Fund
Trimark Fund DSC
AGF Dividend Income Fund
AGF Aggressive Growth US Fund

We’ll be here all day if I keep going…

And your second link, what a joke. Notice who the Plaintiff is? It’s PRIMERICA! The defendant, whoever that is, is someone who obviously tried to screw the company. I would’ve loved to sit on the jury for that one. Again, nobody has EVER sued Primerica for doing anything wrong (not to mention sue the company and WIN) because the company’s Integrity is through the roof. Everything that Primerica does is beneficial for the consumer, EVERTHING. Case closed. Google that

Positive net worth? Net Worth is sucha useless term. Again, read “rich dad, poor dad” by Robert Kiyosaki. How much of your networth is liquid investments? I’d bet that most of your “net worth” is tied up in that big liability called a HOUSE.

me? Hater? I didn’t hop on the worldwide web and start bashing a great company because I didn’t like their marketing pitch. I’m simply responding to what I believe to be a completely unjustified claim against a great organization.

V
PS – Glad to hear you did what Primerica has been saying since day one and got rid of you UNIVERSAL LIFE policy. Hope you didn’t go get a whole life policy?

V,
Read a little further on my Primerica story. I don’t blame their product and I don’t blame them for selling insurance at all. It is just that the reality is not as easy at it seems when it comes down to be a recruit at Primerica and make money.

Yeah, you gotta work hard. Come on, anybody in a commission structure / business owner or self employed knows that. I have been told by Primerica recruiters (I guess I am not that dumb since I received 5 different offer from the past 5 years) that I can do $2,400 a week with normal work (i.e. 40 hours). So I guess that almost everybody at Primerica (i.e. about 100,000 employees right?) makes more than 100K a year working normal hours? Are you? is everybody at your office making that much and all driving 1989 Buick?

I have work with independant advisor for a while and it is true that there are super stars making 500K + a year, I know many of them. But the reality is that the average income for a 1st year rep is 24K in Canada. Nobody ever mentioned that in the Primerica meeting or discussion I had with many reps.

in regards to the concert series, I just have to say that many many many many funds made over 10% returns from 2002 to 2007. It was a huge bull market until mid 2007. There are not bad mutual funds, but they are not astonishing either.

I must admit that I didn’t the link I posted… that’s what happen when you do things too fast!
According to Rip-off report:
With over 100,000 representatives and 6 million clients, Primerica is bound to be the subject of a certain number of complaints about improper agent conduct, as well as product and administrative complaints.

Rip-Off’s investigation found such complaints, but importantly also found that Primerica is committed to resolving such complaints quickly and doing everything possible to satisfy its clients. It also takes appropriate action against any of its representatives who are found to have conducted themselves improperly or unethically. We believe that the number of complaints against this company, whether through the Internet or other channels, is small when put into the context of its enormous size. Most big companies would never commit themselves like Primerica has.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/010/RipOff0010157.htm

I noted that they also mention that the company is very good at following-up with complaints and resolving them. This is a really good point, however, there are still complaints and probably lawsuit. It is nothing related to the company, it is just that any company with 100,000 + employees will have complaints and lawsuit. It is just normal!

here’s an example with Primerica as a defendant:
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-mndce/case_no-0:2007cv03972/case_id-93972/
And I conducted a quick search on the same website;
http://dockets.justia.com/search?query=primerica&search=Search&stateorcourt=&lawsuittype=&documentfilter=allcases&cases=mostrecent&min-day=1&min-month=1&min-year=2004&max-day=8&max-month=7&max-year=2008
you will find Primerica as Plaintiff and Defendant. So there are lawsuits.
Are you really surprised?

If you take out my house from my networth calculation, simply take off my only debt as well and then, I am still positive !

One last thing, go read my conclusion on Primerica:
http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/category/primerica-series/page/2/
And tell me that I am not right when I say that the best way to make money with the Company is to recruit somebody, make the cut off his best 5-10 first clients and than have him recruit somebody else.

I never said that the company was not offering good products and bad financial advice. I am just saying that people should think twice before working for this company and that I found weird that a Walmart Greeter can, all of a sudden, help me with my financial situation with a 3 month training class. Would you let me repair your car, fix your roof or do a brain surgery after a 3 month class? would you?

Financial Blogger,

Of course I wouldn’t let you do surgery on me after 3 months of training. However, I hardly believe you want to compare something as specialized as surgery to financial services. Doctors are dealing with life and death, perhaps that is why they must complete years of experience in schools and training environments. They must be experts at what they do.

Financial Services isn’t rocket science. This is another priniciple that Primerica teaches. Replacing a Whole life Policy with term doesn’t require a Doctorate. Term Life insurance is the best option 100% of the time. I’m sure you realized that. Switching someone from a 1% GIC into a 10% divident fund isn’t Brain surgery. It’s common sense. “Mr. Client , you’re getting 1% over here at your current instituion, based on the rule of 72, your money will double ever 72 years and you’ll never retire.” Primerica says why not get into a mutual fund, since equity markets have outperformed ALL OTHER investments and are proven to be the best way to save towards retirement?

And Debt. Currently most people will be in debt forever (don’t they have 40 year mortgages now?) Primerica says “hey Mr, client why don’t you try our S.M.A.R.T. loan and we’ll put together a plan that will get you out of debt in 10 years instead of 40?

HOW HARD IS THAT? I just taught you how to be beginner in the financial services industry and it only took me 5 minutes.

As far as the legality issue goes, In all of my research, I have never heard of Primerica getting any lawsuits filed against them. And like you said, if they have.. for the size of the company, it’s incredible what they have managed to accomplish.

Going back to the commission structure and making money… Again, it’s not easy. The business is simple but it’s not easy. If you were working 40hrs a week, of COURSE you could be making $2,400 a week in Primerica. It’s simple math. In Primerica, $2,400 is equivalent to about 2.5 insurance policy sales. (no investments, no debt) Worst case scenario, one in every 5 people says yes to your presention. SO, you see 10 people per week, and you’re making $2,400 in commission, but you’re right. Who’s gonna do that? Just like in the real world, 10% of the people earn 90% of the wealth. It’s like that at your job, in business, everywhere! (Who can’t go on 2 appointments a night for 5 nights? Mon-Fri just do two appointments a night and see what happens)

The point that Primerica is making is, IT’S POSSIBLE HERE. Where else are you going to go, see 10 people a week, make 3 sales and earn $2,400 on one product? NOWHERE. We give the average an ordinary person a shot. In the “real world” you have to have a degree, and a diploma and have years of experience… for what? to replace a whole life policy? Gimme a break. Primerica gives people a chance to have a chance in life. I can teach a 50 year old Walmart Greeter how to do my job, and he/she will do the same job (if not better) than any “financial advisor,” from a major institution.

Like I said earlier, you can’t move up to the CEO position in your company because the spot is already filled. That person has to quit or die before you get a shot. And even then there’s a thousand people wtih more qualifications than you. so how do you get ahead? Primerica, that’s how! lol.

V

Financial Blogger,

Look, don’t take my word for it. What abut everyone else? I’m not talkin about “cousin jimmy” who said PrimAmerica is a pyramid scam.. Even though cousin jimmy has never done anything with his life. Primerica can’t turn coal into diamond!!! I’m just saying, what about the experts.

What about the information that has been written by: Suze Orman, David Chilton, Thomas J Stanley, Napoleon Hill, Derek Foster, John Kehoe David Bach the whole cast of “The Secret.”?? They have all sold millions of books educating people about what Primerica has been doing for the past 30 years! Primerica is doing the same thing daily, and turning average/ordinary people into business owners. Not only that, but they’re helping thousands of people in the process!

How can you hate on that? Or say that “it can’t be done, or you have to recruit” Of course you have to recruit! Nobody had a business by themsevles! Mcdonalds wouldn’t be Mcdonalds with one guy workin there! You don’t “have to” recruit, you GET TO recruit. People are struggling out there. Dying to get out of their jobs, looking for a better way to make it. And you know this is true. You probably know 50-100 people who hate their jobs and all they talk about is getting out. Or their next vacation. That is the reality that we live in and you can’t deny. People are just scared to take the next step, they’re so jaded by the negative news, or this person got burned by some scam etc.. and internet bloggers like you don’t help the situation at all..

I know I have given you a ton of literature to follow up with, but add “Coach” to that list. Written by ART WILLIAMS: The founder of Primerica. Read that, and then get back to me. Until you read that book, we can’t even have this conversation because you’re not on the same level of awareness.

Sorry for being so abbrassive but those are the real facts…

V

OH, almost forgot.

I still can’t believe you sent me that link for Primerica’s Aggressive Growth Fund. Talking about how bad it is.

Morningstar has that fund rated as a FIVE STAR FUND. It outclassed all of it’s peers within the same group and it dominated the index over the last 5 years as I mentioned. I agree that the last 5 years has been good, but still.. It’s a 5 star based on morningstar’s rating. I guess we’ll see what happens over the next 5 years with all of those funds that I listed.

Something tells me that they’ll do far better than real estate (like they have historically) and GIC’s (which never do more than 2-3%)

V

V,

Then again, you are reading too fast thinking that my purpose in life is to bash Primerica: I never said that Primerica funds were bad, I said they were ok. “There are not bad mutual funds, but they are not astonishing either.”. Several funds did as good as them during the same time. I completely agree with you that GIC sucks (I already wrote about that actually) but some people just can’t take a 10% drop in one year. Some of them don’t sleep knowing they lost $5 yesterday!

I read several books (not from Primerica but i read the Rich Barber, 5 books from Kiyosaki and other financial / psychological book such as The Secret (I didn’t read this one yet!).). So you are not losing me telling that I’m not going to be the President of Bank tomorrow morning. In fact, I probably never be one. However, i can make more than one of your VP within a couple of years since they barely make 100k / year.

In the end, Primerica is not different from any other Financial companies besides its commission structure and its very strong culture. Have you ever discussed with somebody from London Life? Great West Life? Investors Group? Peak investment? Trimark? etc? They will all tell you that they are there for their clients (I hope so!), that they are getting people out of debts and yes, they might have been slow on the term insurance, but they are now selling it big time. BTW, universal are really good for wealthy people but you would require financial planning knowledge to know that. On the other side, for ordinary people, UL are definitely not the best product ever.

So are you making 100K? and the other people in your office, if they are not making 100K+, I guess it’s because they are lazy? is that simple for you? And if it’s the truth, should I really give them the mandate to manage my money?

I know that there are plenty of really good Primerica advisor (I even know one) but don’t tell me that they are all superstars and everybody is making a shit load of money in your office ’cause that’s just a dream and this is why I wrote this series: to explain that there is a dream and there is a reality. The reality is that most people in that industry (Primeria and others) are starving to death because they just can’t sell enough.

oh… I forgot to tell that I really enjoy the debate. Don’t be scared to be abrasive, I would have never wrote this series if I was not expecting such comments

I never said that your purpose is to bash Primerica.. My whole argument is that you’re making blanket statements that are completely unjustified. You haven’t read any literature from the company (as you mentioned above) so you’re the last person who should be commenting on Primerica’s business practices, how much the VP’s make, how many people succeed or fail, the performance of the funds….. anything. You are the

You say Primerica funds are not “astonishing” yet the experts over at Morningstar rate Primerica Aggressive Growth as world class? How does that happen?

If you’re not reading books by Primerica, How do you know what percentage of the VP’s earn 100K?

I have discussed finance with advisors at London Life, Clarica and Investors Group. I actually had friends who worked at all three companies and we argued these points constantly. We are VERY different from all of the other Financial Services Companies. They may be JUST starting to market Term Life insurance but they have to make up for years of screwing the consumer with whole life and UL. Primerica has been doing the right thing since day one.

Financial Planning knowledge? You’re too funny. I actually know when U/L is to be used, and that’s NEVER. Primerica’s target market is not the affluent population so my financial plannin knowledge is right on point.

I’m definitly not making 100K a year but I’m on track to be there, because that’s a normal income to shoot for in our company. By the way, if I was making 100k would it make a difference? If you are the person who has their money in a GIC, has 3 U/L policies, and has a 40 year mortgage, than OF COURSE I HAVE THE MANDATE TO MANAGE YOUR MONEY! Any of our reps do, because CLEARLY that person doesn’t know what they’re doing! And Primerica doesn’t “manage” money. We are only a Life Insurance company that markets other financial products and services. If I sell a mutual fund, I’m actually sending a client to AGF, or Trimark or Lag Mason, Templeton etc. And they pay us a referral fee. If I do a debt consolidation, it goes through Citi-Home Mortgage and again they pay us. The client would deal with the ensuing company, not Primerica.

See, all of these things you would know if you actually did some research on the company. Just read “Coach” please. .. I’m telling you, you will have a different outlook on Finance, Primerica and all of these principles that we have been talking about.

You may call it a dream but the real reality is that Primeria has over 5,000 reps that make between 50K-100K. There’s over 3000 reps that make between 100K and a Million. There’s over 50 people who make between 1 – 2 million dollars and there’s 16-20 people who make between 2 – 5 million. that’s reality. and the reality is, the chances of someone making 100K in our company is 100X better than it is in Corporate America. And that’s what we tell people.

All Facts..

We’re not going to say “well, most people never make it” as a marketing pitch? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s not that most people don’t make it, they QUIT! It’s too tough for most people, and that’s ok. But for those who are willing to work, go do 40hrs a week in Primerica and tell me how it goes. Anyone who’s done that is known as a SNSD (senior National sales Director) and they make well over 450K in our company.

V

V,

I think we are just not made to take coffee together

Thx for the great debate and pointing out numbers on how much people are making. That is more realistic than the marketing pitch I got and much appreciated.

I read the recent debate you and V had through email, I think he came in swinging but still made an interesting debate.

Based on the articles, I would have to agree you did do a fair job from your perspective. I want to throw a few other numbers out there that might also help explain the few numbers. You can take them as you wish, it is just facts. And given the size of the numbers base (well over 100k reps and over 250k recruited each year), you can surmise that most people are just lazy.

Of new recruits, above 80% quit within the first month citing all kinds of reasons.
20% get licensed. Of those, only 10% ever come to work.

Out of the whole company, you can beet 87% of the people by just submitting 1 piece of business. 87%!!!!

So in any given month, only about 13-15% of agents in the company do any business.

Now take a look at where most people work, about how many actually work and how many try to just get by till the clock hits 5? I honestly believe these numbers can be found anywhere.

This is a difficult business for those that do not know what is going on. More difficult for people like me (introverts). But I know I will succeed in it. I know I will be among the top earners some day. Not because they told I could, but because I know I will. I know how to get there and it is just a matter of time and effort.

And to be fair, if you had someone out of my office, you would have received a realistic marketing pitch, and an honest one.

Richard,
I appreciate your comments as it is pointing out facts. I can’t verify them but I got similar number from other people working in the industry.

My question is the following : Why Primerica and not another company? They say you own your business, however, if you ever leave, you have to leave your book of clients behind too because it belongs to Primerica. Nothing more different than any other job.

They say you can recruit people and make a part of their commission and this is why you get a lower commission rate when selling. Then, you have to recruit people and convince them to sell for a lower commission rate based on the same principle. However, at one point, somebody has to sell something if we want the chain to bring food back home. And this person is doing it at a lower commission rate.

Primerica is no evil, not like any other company. I am just concerned about the gap between the marketing pitch and the reality. Some people might explain it with a much realistic point of view. I wish I could meet people from your office ;-D

At Primerica, I don’t have someone breathing down my back telling me to meet quotas, that I can only sell so much of one product, threats of being fired, etc. These do happen at any place you work.

The business aspect is true. At Primerica we are independent contract of the agency and get certain tax breaks because of it. The book of business that so many people talk about can be a moot point for some. If you stay with one company, does it really matter who owns it? If you change companies and agencies often, it is a VERY IMPORTANT point. But for the part time person just wanting to make an extra 500 – 2000 a month to pay bills and eat out once in a while, it doesn’t really matter.

Sales are needed to make money and the commission is lower than other companies. From what I can tell, they have dropped (at all designations) at least 7 times in the last 10 years that Citi has been in charge. With the imminent sale coming up, the rumor is they will go back up to what the industry average is.

Something else to consider, If you are training someone, should they make less, the same, or more than you?

In my office, you are part time until you become an RVP, and you earn a part time income. Making the move to RVP, if you built your team right, will double your income in a matter of 6 months or less. Again, this is about average for my office and may not be typical.

Some people in this company sell the hype, others sell the facts. The truth of the matter is, you have to work hard at what you want to get it. Over 80% of America is fed up with their current situation, but wont do anything about it. Those people give companies like us (not just Primerica), ones giving people an opportunity to make a small change for a better life, a bad name. Those are also the ones spreading misinformation about such companies as well.

If you are ever in the DFW area, let me know. Maybe we can have a lunch sometime.

Just tell me, are you afraid of sucess ? Did we show lies ? And, if you don’t believe or if you like to live a NEGATIVE life, let us be happy, building a carrer in a positive place and showing to want, one oportunity to have freedom. What is bad on it Mazda boy.

Um, RVP, You are not exactly showing the company in a positive light. TFB made his own opinions based on what he experienced. Some of the information is incorrect (Overrides can go up to 12 deep in some rare cases), but from his point of view, he would be correct.

There are a few things he missed which does portray the company unfairly, but unless you really do dig into those points, they are moot.

Such as:
We have only ever offered Term Insurance (a few years it did convert to whole life I believe) where as other companies continue to switch between favorite products.
We have only ever offered one kind of refinance loan, others keep making new ones up to increase profits.
We are one of the few (if not only) that offer guaranteed renewable LEVEL life insurance.
We CREATED LEVEL term insurance
We offer people who have no background, no education, a chance at a chance for a better life, most companies wont.

That being said, we are not for everyone. In Canada, a law was passed by our competitors around the time we were moving into Canada that prevented part time association with companies like us. It was targeted AT us. We still entered Canada and have helped many people.

TFB has my respect because he is willing to listen and wishes for constructive debate. He also educates in areas we do not.

Richard,

It is a pleasure to have you on my blog ;-D
Seriously, I truly want to get as much feed back as possible (positive or negative in regards to Primerica or my Blog !). Having people like you commenting prove, with rational arguments, that Primerica has good sides (really!).

thx again for your input. I am convinced that several people who visit my blog benefit from it!

I am a Primerica rep. One aspect of Primerica I see missing here is why we recruit and how we advance to higher contract levels.
If a person wanted to start a burger restaurant like McDonald’s, they would hire a store manager, assistant managers, crew leaders, cooks and order takers. The people at the top make more money but do less work, right? The people at the bottom can work hard and advance in rank by doing so. They can even pass the person up ahead of them if they are better than that person.
Primerica works the same way. You hire (recruit) a team to get the job done. People who work harder advance faster and can pass their up line. Their up line no longer gets a commission for their work because it now goes to the down line line.
One of the neatest things about the advancement process is that in order to advance you have to do a certain amount of business, and get your team moved up in rank as well. This gives a team leader incentive to invest training and support in their recruits and make sure no one is left behind. At a traditional job the manager has no incentive to get an employee promoted.
I hope this info helps.
Ryno

Ryno,

thx for this additional piece of information. However, I must clarify something about “traditional job”. Your statement used to be true where managers didn’t have any incentive to get employees promoted. However, now they will probably get fired if they can’t “produce” or “train” good employees. I personally had 2 managers in my career so far and both of them got me the necessary tools to get promotions. In fact, my first one even helped me getting my actual job since it was part of my career plan and his first mandate was to help out his people reaching their goal.

There are still pretty bad managers out there, but a new wave has started.

The incentive with Primerica though is more pay. The incentive with the traditional job is that you get to keep it.

TFB,

I’m impressed that you’re actually willing to engage in constructive debate regarding this issue. I personally believe that all managers, no matter the field have a vested interest in the employees under them, not just Primerica Reps (of which I am one, an RVP to be exact, and I don’t not make in excess of 100k). Managers rely on those under them to produce good results marketing/maunfacturing whatever their product is, and as such if the manager is a better trainer, they will have a favourable performance in terms of numbers. As with any company, increased performance usually results in a promotion (or at least makes it more likely).

One new point I would just like to add is about the issue of ownership. In Primerica, you have the opportunity to own your business, you in fact do not own it from day one. Ownership requires becoming an RVP and promoting RVPs after you have done so. This requires commitment and effort on behalf of the person looking to own their own business. However, once this level of ownership has been reached, the rep should have a hierarchy in place that runs itself in absentia, providing passive income for the rest of their life, in addition to the option of being able to sell the business for 8-10 times it’s annual cash flow value should the rep ever decide to leave the company.

Also, I wanted to ask which PFS office you attended the business opportunity meeting at? I’m from the Southern Ontario area, so true to my nature, I assume that every other Canadian is as well, and I was just curious as to if it was near the one I work out of.

Hey Brad,

Thx for passing by. I would say that the point of ownership is disputable as your clients doesn’t belong to you (neither the other agents). If you leave the company, you might be able to sell your book but if you don’t you simply lose them. On the opposite, other places such as Investors Group for example, you have the possibility to sell your book of business or transfer them to another investment firm anytime. Your clients belongs to you. not to the company.

The meeting I had was in Laval (Qc). It was about 3 years ago. Since then, I have been in contact with many other Primerica agents from Montreal, Montreal’s south and north shore. I actually found more straight answer from people commenting on this blog than from the people I have met

TFB,

You are right that the definition is debatable for ownership. I have found in many cases the insurance industry has there own set of definitions for common words. For Primerica, ownership is in terms of the business it self, not the client base.

If you owned restaurants, shopping malls, hotels, etc. And you sold them to create something new, would you still keep the same clientele or would you have to build it fresh again?

From the client prospective, if you change companies every so often (once every 5 to 10 years), they may just decide to stay where they are at because you changed. They could look at it as a sign that you are not committed to seeing everything through and your just using them for a nice commission. Not saying that is true, just a possible thought.

My background varies as much as the stock market, I do have a business background. From that perspective, Primerica RVPs do receive ownership of their business. From the financial services industry prospective, they do not.

Hopefully with this comment we can put that matter to rest.

Richard,
I appreciate where you are coming from. However, if your restaurant was offering a close relationship with their client comparable to the one you have in the life insurance industry (or any related financial services), chances are that they would follow you if you open another restaurant in another mall.

As a financial planner, I do have a book of clients (that belongs to the bank of course). I manage the book according to what I think its best for my clients (then again with guidelines in the back… as it is the case with any company). If I leave the bank to go independent or for another bank, I have to leave those clients behind me as they are not “mine”.

In the meantime, by giving a great service and taking care of my clients, they will send me referrals and business should become a lot smoother after a few years of work. I can see it with the “older” planners. They don’t have to work much and business is coming in.

I just find that the system is pretty similar on that point of view. However, I clearly understand that you have a lot more flexibility and you have the possibility to manage employee. In the end, I see it more as a franchisee system than pure business ownership.

TFB,

It is true that if you hold that relationship with your clients, they will follow you. But with the restaurant, they make the choice to follow, not you taking them with you. My uncle is a perfect case. He was head chef at a 5 star restaurant, management changed and he went to a different place. 90% of the customers followed him there. He was expected to leave them and he did. They choose him though. Needless to say, that restaurant is no longer.

In the end, the point of ownership of your book of business is moot. If you do a great job and keep doing it, they will follow you regardless of which company you go with. Just because you can’t forcibly take them, does not mean they wont follow you.

In essence, it is a franchise system. Most organizations I have seen that allow ownership run life that. That being said, a franchisee is still a business owner, just look at the Bennigin’s fiasco down here. The franchisee’s are putting money together to buy back half the old corporate owned ones.

Thursday – August 14 – 2008 – 5:45pm

Dear Mike

I just got a phone call from a Primerica recruiter.

You are right with your observations.

Keep up the good work !!

Sincerely

Brian McBreen

I think this is funny mike your story about you telling the girl you where a banker.
Because unless your worked for Bank of America, JP Morgan or Wells fargo well your bank was not doing any better than citi wich primeamerica is a member.
I am not a rep or have anything to do with them.
I have a friend that is a vp and does well and i have never heard anything bad from any of his customers as I am a contractor and i have built a few house that they re-financed.

I think if you dont like marketing practices that is fine, but spending your time giving bad rep for people that work hard to try to make a living,that is not cool.
Anyway take it or leave it that is your choice.
Best regards!

Hey Eric,

I actually work for a Canadian Bank. All Canadian Banks all took their hit last summer but they are now in a pretty good situation (most of them).

And as I previously mentioned, I don’t mean to bash anybody, I just try to report the 2 sides of the same coin. I would have deleted several comments if I wanted to have a biased opinion about Primerica on my blog

cheers,

FB.

I have suffered the Primerica dream. Like many other American’s and Canadian’s I was sold into the lies and promises of riches. The ideas and concepts were good, but not well developed. The over-simplification of financial concepts simply doesn’t work. One can argue that some financial direction is better than none. However, no amount of good ideas and concepts can insulate you from the long term damage to your personal finances from the lack of income support. I am still suffering from the bad credit problems related to the loans used to chase the pipe-dreams and I say be careful.

Al,

If you did not have income support, is that Primerica’s fault or your own? Primerica is commission only thus, if you don’t sell, you don’t make money. The “dream” is what you make it. You should not have been promised riches and ling is unacceptable for any business.

The concepts that Primerica works under were not created by Primerica, nor AL Williams before it. They are concepts that the industry as a whole developed and Primerica simply choose to use the ones that are best for middle income families.

Regardless of any business opportunity you may go after, any bad debt you may have, or acquired, was caused by your decisions and actions, not by the business you were associated with.

The truest of pipe dreams is believing you will achieve all your dreams by working a job and having someone else control your income. Business Owners and Investors have lifestyles most dream about because most will not put forth the effort to do what is necessary.

Primerica, like many successful businesses, has a system that if worked, pays out. If you did not plug in, work the system, and keep at it, you are guaranteed to fail. Do not blame a system that has proven to work time and time again for your own failure.

This system, on average, produces 10-20 new 100k+ earners every month and about 2-5, if not more, new millionaire’s every year. The system works.

Those that cannot run a business, deserve to have a job and an average life. Those that want more out of life, must go above and beyond, become a business owner and an investor, and make money work for them instead of working for money.

I wish you luck in what ever you choose to do. Just remember, you are where your actions and choices have brought you. If you are unhappy with were you are at, it is your own fault and no one else.

People of all incomes, debt levels and investment capacity can avail themselves of financial advice, if they choose to go out and get it. The quality of advice varies, so if you are on the “low” end of the scale, who will talk to you and how can you ensure they will take interest in your economic success?

You get what you pay for… in this case do you get advice commensurate with the kind of commissions an advisor can make from you? If I don’t have 50,000 liquid, will the full-time advisor — one who keeps up with all the latest news and competing offers — bother with me?

Which (reputable) companies actively seek out low to middle-income earners to offer their services, especially in Canada? And I don’t mean seek through advertising — I mean intentionally seek referrals and contact you. There has to more than Primerica using this approach.

Most companies will give you a phone number to call if you have at least $50k – $250k to invest. More than that and you might get a dedicated person. My father has roughly $800k invested with his adviser (does not believe family should know family business). He gets pretty personalized service.

However, I have also seen the reports he gets. Frankly, the reports given by Primerica are easier to read and are more to the point.

There are very few companies that actually seek out the middle income families. Primerica is one of the better ones, if not the best, of that bunch of companies. How many will allow an individual or family start investing with $0 and $25/mo? How many will actually teach people how insurance and investments work and what they are meant for? Not many. Many companies believe these things to be to complicated for the average Joe to understand.

I know this is the case from the people I have dealt with. They have a certified adviser or professional money manager. I show them how it works and they get pissed because they feel there got had.

If anyone notices, Primerica, as a company, does not advertise. We are a warm market business. Ideally, we work through referrals, friends, family, and word of mouth.

I will not say Primerica is the only company doing this. But, to my knowledge, AL Williams did start the trend.

I have read the comments about Primerica…. I’m am still confused…. Is Primerica a pyramid scheme or not? I was approached by one of their reps with an invitation to a weekly meeting. First, I was struck that they hold these meetings twice a week, every week. Isn’t this odd? Most companies don’t do this kind of recruiting, unless they have a high turn over rate (not a good thing) or they are setting up a pyramid?

I tried to obtain specific information from the rep but she didn’t seem willing…. she said I would get my questions answered at their meeting. This seems shady to me. I explained to her that I don’t care for “selling” products… but she is interested in my financial background/degree and said that I would be “pushing” mortgages so to speak. The last time I checked, mortgage brokers need extensive training and licensing? Something doesn’t seem right about Primerica…………………..

I am in the holding pattern with these people…. I have yet to attend the meeting… I don’t want to waste my gasoline or my time.

And are they really a part of Citigroup?

Mickey,
#1 Primerica is not a pyramid scheme in a sense that it’s built under legal term. You can see my conclusion on this series to know more about it.

#2 Turnover rate in this industry (not only with Primerica) is ridiculously high. It’s normal since they are paid on a commission basis.

#3 They are part of Citigroup. Primerica is for sell though…

Mickey,

As an agent myself, I will add to what TFB has stated.

#1. Primerica is no scheme. The financial services industry is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the world. At least 2 federal level regulators and half a dozen state regulators for each state. No scams can last for more than a few months, if at all, in this industry. Primerica has been around for over 30 years and still growing strong.

#2 Name me one business that is not a pyramid? The biggest difference I can give is that once you get a division contract, monetarily speaking, you receive more in commissions for personal sales than all overrides above you combined.

And to quash the override argument, your boss make more than you and earns based on your work, their boss does the same, and so on and so forth. They just call it different.

#3 If you were ever truly interested in becoming a new recruit, or agent, or whatever you want to call it, then you would go to the meeting and get information from the source instead of postings online. After all, everything on the internet is true right?

#4 As of right now, Primerica is still apart of Citi. Last report I heard, the paperwork is being signed to seal the deal. And the sell is a great thing. Read the Coach book by A.L. Williams. I recommend that to you as well TFB. It is the history of the company. Why Primerica got started, the troubles the company went through, etc.

It should also be pointed out, that with all of the negative press online, Primerica is STILL the most compliant company in the industry.

If you are worried about not wasting gas, then don’t go. You would waste your time or theirs, because chances are, you wont join. That is just my opinion of your comment.

The choice is yours. As someone once said:

If you want to look at your next 5 years, look at your last 5.
If you want to change it, make a decision and change what you are doing.
Otherwise, you will just repeat your life.

If you want a better life than your last 5 years, make a change and do something you wouldn’t normally do. It may improve your life, it may not. But at least you can say you tried.

If you want to keep the life you have, don’t change anything and stay home.

People are where they choose to be, if you don’t like it, make a change and stop complaining.

[...] Paradox Part 1, part 2, part 3 and the final conclusion on Primerica with part [...]

TO EVERYBODY:

PRIMERICA IS THE BEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD. EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS MADE
BY A CHOICE. TO MAKE THE BEST CHOICE YOU NEED A WHY. IS YOUR FAMILY A GOOD WHY. ARE YOUR KIDS, WELL WORTH THAT WHY? TO WHO EVER WANT’S
TO BE PART OF PRIMERICA WELCOME. AND FOR THOSE WHO DON’T TO BAD.
PRIMERICA WAS HERE BEFORE YOU GUYS, AND WILL STILL BE HERE AFTER YOU GUYS. SO IF YOUR WONDERING IF IT’S A SCHEME OR NOT DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR.
QUIT ASKING PEOPLE FOR THIER OPINION AND JUST MAKE YOUR DECISION. WHY DON’T YOU ASK PEOPLE FOR THIER OPINION, ON WHETER OR NOT YOU SHOULD FEED YOUR KIDS. OR PAY YOUR RENT, OR YOUR BILLS, SEND YOUR KIDS TO COLLEGE. OR JUST BE A MAN AND MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE. WITH OR WITH OUT YOU WE’LL STILL MAKE IT. SO ASK YOUR SELF A QUESTION, ” I’M I GIVING MY FAMILY THE LIFESTYLE I WOULD WANT THEM TO HAVE? “. SO DOES PRIMERICA WORK? IT WORKS FOR THOSE WHO DO WORK NOT FOR LAZY PEOPLE. SO ARE YOU A HARD WORKER OR A LAZY PERSON? ONLY YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION!
MY ADVICE TO YOU IS GIVE A SHOT. BUT GIVE IT A SHOT TO SUCCEED.
THE ONLY WAY TO SUCCESS IS WANTING TO FAIL AS MANY TIMES AS YOU CAN.
FIRST YOU HAVE TO BE A DISASTER TO BECOME A MASTER.
WHICH MEANS ONCE YOU MASTERED YOUR CRAFT YOU’LL FIND OUT THAT EVERYTHING, THAT KEPT YOU FROM SUCCESS ARE NOTHING BUT ” F.E.A.R.S ”
SO ARE YOUR FEARS GOING TO KEEP YOU FROM REACHING YOUR GOALS AND DREAMS. OR ARE YOU GOING TO OVERCOME THEM?………………

Dude, turn off the caps lock. Nobody likes it when people yell for no valid reason.

And if you read his comment between the lines, he was looking for a way out, not a way in. Primerica doesn’t need, or want, people who are always looking for ways out or easy ways of doing things. Those people are best suited for jobs where they are told what to do and when. And there is nothing wrong with that. This world needs people in jobs, but nobody said it had to be you.

Who has the highest IRA money market rate?

That can not be correctly answered. Fees differ from company to company even when investing into the SAME fund.

It is stated in this blog that middle-class america needs to take control of their own financial destiny… primerica proposes we do so by allowing them to make our financial desicions for us.

Insurance is one of those things that capitalizes on the general public’s fear of, “something” might happen… but this is another debate that we can have another time (i believe the reponsibility of protecting the general public of dangers financial or otherwise falls on the government… again another debate another time)
This is what primerica sells, this was my first disgust.

Before i knew about primerica a friend of mine asked me to come along to this one conference about an opportunity to make money.. i did and after listening to the seminar, talking to the others involved in this company, doing my research, and thinking crictically about everything i had seen, i came to the conclusion that it was not a scam, but none-the-less, a sham. This company? Quixtar.

Then it happened again not even a week ago. This time however, things looked a little different up front. I arrive at the conference early (“they acctually have their own building” i thought to myself, “this can’t be the same as last time”) I spoke with one of the speakers who was also their early, and i must say, she was very impressive. The manner of her speech, her knowledge, her charisma, so on. I eventually asked if this company was in anyway affiliated with Amway, she said with a disgusted tone, “Oh heavens no”. My spirits were lifted a bit. I can say i was even getting a little excited. Then i sat in the conference, and i liked the direction everything was going for the first two speakers, i liked how these representatives seemed honestly interested in helping others financially. But then after more and more speakers went up to do their spiel, and i realized that this is exactly like quixtar.. in everyway (except that quixtar reps sell actual domestic products whereas primerica reps sell term life insurance)

The similarities are evident in the piggy-back business structure both companies have. “The more people you sponsor, the more money you make.” To sum it up in one word, shenanigans. (Put more people on hamster wheels and you generate more electricity. If you keep up pace we’ll even give ya TV to watch while you’re running…. this is just some satire… laugh… its funny dammit)

Getting back on track now; after the conference, my friend (who brought me) and i went to speak with his team leader, and at first the team leader seemed excited to have a possible new member. Then i started to ask questions. This made him nervous because he started fidgeting and stuttering only 10 minutes into my little questionnaire (funny i was only asking simple things like “what’s with these fees?”) He told me i’m one of those ones who “like to look into things to much.. because questions leed to more questions, which open doors to more questions”… so on. BTW, when someone tells you to stop thinking/questioning, you’re approaching some information they don’t want you to know. So then he said, “Why don’t you just sign up, and then see for yourself.” So now this statement means, “Pay us first, we want your money, then when you realize you don’t agree with anything we do, you can leave” So i put on a smile, humor him for my friend’s sake and leave.

Such a shame they turned out to be snakes with friendly grins.. plus i really like that one woman that spoke with me when i arrived early, she deserves to be in another postion with another company doing some real good.

But my night wasn’t over after my friend and i left the conference. We started to have a debate over everything that just happened. Me explaining myself (why i am morally against this and these kind of businesses), and he defending them. Now he has been my brother for a decade, and when we argued about this, it wasn’t him speaking. He had changed. They really did a number on him. He used to think, “i want to genuinley help people” Then he was introduced to primerica, they lured him in with visions of charity “you will help acctually help the people that need help!” then suckered him in with visions of grandeur “i make 250 000 a year, and you can too!” And now he’s brain washed….

They are a cult, quixtar, primerica, their “crusade” is to eliminate individualism!! Teach one mentality, that is, one way of thinking/doing anything or everything.

On some of the topics discussed.. my friend, as well as some of the other primerica reps in this blog said, “no company is perfect, no one is perfect, this country isn’t perfect, and what we offer is another way of doing things, it may not be perfect, but it works better than the competition.” THIS mentality of, i’d better get mine before someone else gets it, and if others need to be trampled on or left behind in the process, oh well! needs to be scrapped and tossed. When they say, “all i can do is all i can do, and if anyone wrongs me in the process, some higher power will show ‘em what’s right!” they don’t realize they’re falling victim to apathy.

I have far more to say about this than i’m going to post in one entry in a blog, so the last thing i’ll tell you is bash ‘em. Crimerica and Fixedtar want to justify themselves in whatever way they can, let ‘em, i feel sorry (but no sympathy) for the brainwashed bunch. Unload your disproval and disgust in the most intellectual way you can, there’s no need for verbal or physical violence, but rather, show them that truly intellegent people do not fall victim to the illusions of these jesters.

John,

It is a shame you think the way you are right now. I have no intention of changing your mind of the company, that is useless. But I will point out a few faults in your comment.

1) “primerica proposes we do so by allowing them to make our financial desicions for us.”

Incorrect. Primerica teaches people how to manager their own finances, with help. Ultimately, it is the client that decides what they choose to do.

2) “the reponsibility of protecting the general public of dangers financial or otherwise falls on the government”

This is called socialism, or communism. Which ever way you put it, that takes away your RIGHT to choose and think for yourself.

3) “what’s with these fees?”

The fees are government and private sector imposed onto the company. Any business you start requires fees. It’s $11 to start a business with a DBA here in Texas. About $1,200 to start a LLC. I bet you wouldn’t get scared away if you were starting one of those, but to balk at $99 to get more than that paid for by another company.

4) “They are a cult, quixtar, primerica, their “crusade” is to eliminate individualism!!”

This is socialism which you said was BETTER. You can’t have it both ways.

You are free to make your own decisions and I will fight to the death to allow you to have them. In exchange, do proper research before bashing any company. Without it, you only spread misinformation and make yourself look dumb.

Hi Richard,
First off, i do appreciate you analyzing my statement and expressing your disagreements in a respectful manor, there’s no reason we can’t be civilized in an arguement. However let me explain myself in regards to those points you find faults.

1) I said “primerica proposes…” prim reps are salesman, they are going to do their best to make you feel like you choosing anything other than what their selling is being foolish. granted all salesmen use this approach, primerica digs really deep with phrases like “do you want to get out of debt?” “do you value the security of your families future?” as well as quite a few others, all available on their website. primerica here is using the fear tactic to gain your support. the person in primerica who thought of this is a genius, a twisted genius, but intelligent none-the-less. Are you going to tell me, “spend money to get out of debt”? that’s what primerica says; “buy term and invest the rest” buying their life insurance doesn’t help me get out of debt. The advice they give is not half bad, it’s based on the discipline of saving money anyways-going to this part of my statement: “allowing them to make our financial descisions for us”- just because i say their advice is not half bad, doesn’t mean i’m going against myself here, their way is not the be-all end-all, there’s more than one way to get out of debt, and it i really don’t appreciate (i’d go as far to say hate) someone telling me their way is best and if i don’t accept this, i am making idiotic descisions. This ties in nicely to the next point.

2) What i meant by “the reponsibility of protecting the general public of dangers financial or otherwise falls on the government” is not that i’m proposing we should adopt the soviet’s system here in north america (there’s a reason things there fell apart, and we do not need to repeat those mistakes here), but rather our democratic government should be more responsible to the citizens of it’s country. This is not asking a whole lot. political parties beg the general public for our votes, and what do we get in return? broken promises. i agree with you, when you say socialism and communism take away the right to think and choose for yourself, that’s why something all-together different is needed. a system where the needs of the few is just as important as the needs of the many. a system where every individual truly matters, they’re not just a credit score, or a potential customer, or a (nameless/faceless) resident of a country. i believe you can take the best of rest, put it all together and come up with something that makes life more beautiful, more sophisticated and at the same time less complex and less strenuous on the body and mind… you just have to be creative and without fear of failure( i imagine it’s going to take a few trys to come up with something that is accomodating to everyone) . the common trend in the evolution of human societies is the human condition has always advanced into a better state. i think it’s time to keep on that trend, things have slowed down and momentum needs to be built back up.

The governments of canada and the us have failed at doing the best for everyone, and no one has done anything about it (satyrical humor doesn’t count). Citizens of a country put a party into power, this is so they can decide what’s best for everyone, but when they fail (shouldn’t matter if their term isn’t up, and i’m not talking about something severe where impeachment needs to take place..) change needs to happen. “people shouldn’t fear of their governments, governments should fear their people” the political parties are responsible to us, and if they prove incompetence, we have every right to throw them out (peacefully of course) because we have the final say. This apathy, the mentality of “oh well, that’s life, it’s never going to be perfect” destroys the chance of things at least getting better.

(This is a rather wordy point, i know.. one more sub-topic… oh $#!%, i just noticed i miss spelt intelligent in my last post… oooooooooooops…… back on track now)
Corporatism is to blame for the loss of momentum i mentioned in the paragraph above. with smaller corporations such as quixtar and primerica rising up, they’re learning to gain support in more innovative ways, but unfortunately, in this sentence “innovative” does not imply “better”. i think their business structures are ingeniously put together, but it will inevitably lead to collapse, taking all those people signed on down with them. it is a piggy-back structure, too many people jump on, they all fall down. that was just a metaphor, to portray examples, the prepaid credit card industry. i didn’t think anything in the world needed changing until i started working with a prepaid credit card company. it’s the mentality of “just take a little from a lot of people”. as money flows through the economy, people try find a way to scoop a little (or a lot) for themselves. people in the “E” quadrant (look up Robert Kiyosaki’s “Rich dad poor dad” if you don’t know about the E S B I square) work for a living (for someone else, granted) they are the ones providing the goods or service to consumers “through the sweat on their brow”. the soviets tried and failed miserably to make life better for these people, and in turn gave “providing to the masses” a bad name. People in the “S” quadrant are self employed, but might still have a business of their own on a smaller scale (my cousin is a dentist with his own practise, my brother is a plumber who turned the tools he carried in his truck into a very large plumbing and heating company in just 10 years), these people also provide goods and services to consumers. i call E and S (and on some occasions B) actual jobs, they do something real, not just play with numbers in a book. “B” is where quixtar and primerica promise to place you in. this quadrant is for business owners on a large scale. people that are CEOs and close to it. exceptions (the people i think deserve to be here) are Bill Gates for revolutionizing technology, Martha Stewart for being creative in her own way that people really took to, even Starbucks for making a pretty good cup of coffee, Tim Hortons in canada for starting out as a single table with coffee and muffins on the side of a hockey game. now that the exceptions are out of the way, primerica and quixtar both say, and this is what i find hypocrical, “sign on with us and you will work for yourself, don’t you want to be the one signing your own checks?” this was right before i asked, “how does the money make it to my account?” their reply, “oh we send you a check” the truth is, you are not working for yourself, you are working for them. what you do decide is how much money you make, by either suckering others into you “team” so that they will sell for you, or work a minimum of 40 hours a week on your “business”. this doesn’t free up time like they promise, most people sign on in addition to their full-time jobs. one thing that boggles me, if everyone signed on with companies like quixtar and primerica, would any actual work get done in the world? people would be either be selling health and beauty products or insurance. these are the main problems i have with primerica and quixtar. finally the “I” quadrant, investors, people that either gramble and get lucky with land or stocks, or people that analyze global events and put their money in an industry that happens to be on the rise, or people that lend money only to collect a return later on. these are just the rich that get richer, it seems that money attracts more money, like gravity. but to me, diversifying ones portfolio looks like a roulette table where you don’t put all your chips on one number, but rather spread them out. when you get down to it, it’s all a gamble anyways. one problem i had with this quadrant came from “Why we want you to be rich” a book by Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki. The phrase “turn disaster into profit” is a quote from that book, that’s when i turned my back on that business degree i was about to go to school for.

I’m more of a humanist than anything really, please don’t confuse me for some punk screaming f#ck the system. because when people ask why, i give them a logical answer.. anyways, back to Richard’s original points.

3) The fees seem legit actually. I only brought that question up because when i asked him, he gave gave me a response that didn’t seem too strange, but that’s when he started to get fidgety and stutter. i thought, “OK, 100 buck for the lisences and courses, that’s not bad, and 30 bucks a month for some database i’ll be using, ok, not bad… wait, why is he fidgeting all of a sudden? he looked so confident before, does he think i’m going to ask some question he doesn’t want to answer?”. aside from his behaviour, something also strange that’s interesting to note: why is it that other life insurance quotes online ask you for only some basic information, whereas primerica asks you for your phone number as well? could it be because they want to try and recruit you if they don’t hear from you about signing up for their policy? this is just speculation really, i put in a fake number because i don’t want to speak to them again.

4)They are a cult, they do want to eliminate individualism (i used “crusade” because that’s the term primerica uses on their website) that is socialism, but i never said it was better. in (2) i explained why i believe you can have it both ways.

In conclusion i am not an agent of chaos or control, i am an advocate for change and choice. it’s heart warming to hear you would fight to the death to allow me to make my own decisions and i would do the same for you (even after you called me dumb :p)

feel free to pick apart this post, all it does is help me think through the parts in my ideas i’m not too certain of.. and it also makes me realize more and more everyday that change is needed in the world, expecially the western world.
.
.
.
.
one questions i do have for you Richard, why is it a shame i think like this?

First and foremost, your question.

I think it is a shame because, from what I read, you judged the company instead of asking more questions to clarify what you were thinking. Now to “pick apart” your response.

I prefer being civil and logical to being a “cultist.”

1) The products are uncoupled from each other. The debt plan does not require any money up front or any to maintain. Just have to be disciplined to follow it. Most agents probably wont hand it over unless you buy the insurance as well. The reasoning that I can figure is, besides not getting paid otherwise, but also the fact that any plan without some kind of insurance is destined to fail at some point. The insurance is meant to cover anything unexpected to prevent even MORE debt from piling on and causing the family to sell the house, cars, and god knows what else to live in the run down portion of town in an apt working 2 jobs.

Which plan sounds better? A debt plan that will backfire if someone dies or paying into an insurance product that will allow the plan to be completed if something were to happen?

And how many salesmen do you know that DON’T use a fear tactic of some sort to sell? It is part of the business. Some insurance agents are more scrupulous than others.

2) We will have to disagree on this point. I believe the government should work on international affairs and stay out of business and personal lives. In all aspects. Medicare, Social Security, etc are all massive sink holes. People should be responsible for their own finances and insurance. I do agree that all kinds of insurance should be more accessible to those that need it. The US claims to be a Free Economy yet buts in when either a business gets in trouble or does unethical practices.

I do agree we need change and that the current system does not work. I double agree since the Texas Voter board said I am too dumb to vote because they failed to keep my address (that I regularly kept up to date) updated. In addition to that, the EC system does not allow for the people to speak since the popular vote rarely wins and the electorates can choose to vote for either the public’s choice or whom ever they decide.

And I don’t account intelligence with ability to spell. They are sometimes in a reverse relationship (the worse you spell, the “smarter” you are).

I do know the cash flow quadrant. It is one of the first things we teach potential new recruits in my office. We prefer using more third party material with what we do so that people can independently verify what we say actually is true and is better for most of them (over 80%).

We don’t promise that they will make it, but we do promise that if they just keep at it, they have a better chance of getting there than their co-worker.

3) The fee is the same across the country. That fee offsets the cost of the background check, state mandated pre-licensing class, books. About $300 to $900 depending on state. Add in the possibility of getting the $700 series 6 and 63 paid for and it’s a steal.

If the agent was getting flustered, he wasn’t expecting someone to question him and probably hasn’t been in the business for long. Most people don’t question much. The smarter someone is, the more questions they ask.

4) I have to disagree with the cult comment. Cult’s are religious organizations, of which Primerica is not. That being said, I would much rather be associated with this “cult” since they actually accept me for me and encourages me to grow. Every job I have ever had, wanted to keep me where I was since I kept doing a great job. They never wanted to promote me beyond a working position and only paid me enough to keep me there.

They have never tried to eliminate individualism. They actually promote it at my office. Each office is different. Your experience may have been like you state it, but that is not how the company as a whole runs. Each office is independently owned and operated and responsible for their own expenses and operations.

It is a bit of a shame you are not an agent of chaos or control, it would probably be more fun.

We are both for change and choice. I choose to help people get out of the problem my family has had and prevent them from happening. Primerica is the only company I have researched that allows me to do that with as little out of pocket as possible. I hope you will never have to go through what I have.

Feel free to contact me off comment thread (rjhancock at mac dot com). I would be more than willing to continue this so we don’t keep filling up TFBs database.

I will certainly contact you off thread. it’s always a pleasure to discuss matters of some sort with another person who thinks rationally and reasonably.

Before we continue this else where, i do want to say on record that i am very happy this company is working out for you. I hope it works out equally as well for my best friend whom i mentioned in my first blog. i hope i’m wrong when it comes to primerica, for his sake, because i really do only want the best for him.

John, Richard,
if you wish, I can exchange your email addresses (both of you need to send me an email confirmation at thefinancialblogger at gmail dot com).

Cheers,

FB.

Thanks FB, we’re good.

ive seen many comments as i scroll down this blog and the only thing i see is people judging from a meeting and never really getting info . people doing research on the internet blogs from people that just went to a meeting and walked out assuming it was a scam. some people looked at the cars in the parking lot. some just went on its too good to be true and never went back to get more details.

what i would suggest is to get your own fna and then you would really get the good that primerica does. ive seen many people as an agent myself that have been taken advantage of the consumer that we were able to help. i mean the lack of financial knowledge out there is incredible.

as far as the opportunity goes i make on average 1000- 2000 a month which is what most part timers that ACTUALLY DO SUMTHIN make. its just common sense evrything is laid out for you like : compensation, close ratios, law of avergaes on everything. you just add up “if i do this , it equals that”

now i dont expect everybody to believe that they can all be millionaires. you can just dont expect it over 2 months. you can easily make 1000 part time, which on top of ur actual salary can really do some good.

MY CHALLENGE TO EVERYONE: GET YOUR OWN FINANCIAL NEEDS ANALYSIS.
& DO THE MATH ON THE COMPENSATION. then you can make an educated decision.

by the way since the age of 18 because of primerica i can teach ANYBODY form ANY PROFESSION, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR SOCIAL STATUS, a thing or two about money that they would have never encountered if it wasnt for primerica.

ANYBODY UP FOR A CHALLENGE?????

Do any of you really have any idea exactly what a multy level marketing organization is and how it functions? I really doubt any of you can accurately identify what that is. Primerica is a subsidiary of Citi, it is in the most highly regulated industries in the United States. If you would take the time to really think your opinions all the way through, you would arrive with the conclusion, if you have any real business sense at all, that Primerica is an absolute in the financial services industry. It is the ONLY company in the country that provides a complete and total solution to families debt issues, insurance needs and investment structure. The issue, if we are completely honest here is, that other banks, financial services companies, and insurance companies cannot profitably even come close to being able to compete with the powerful help the Primerica brings to families. So their jealously over rules their common sense. The truth is, they all are trying to keep families IN debt with toxic products, and Primerica is trying to get families OUT of debt. Which is better for families? The sooner you come to that realization, and start trying to help families instead of burying them in debt, the sooner you possibly could grow into the human being you were put here to be. Oh, buy the way, I happen to drive a 1990 Toyota Corrolla with 148,000 miles on it, and, my income is at $280,000.00 last year, guess who I work for………thats right! My suggestion to you would be, be VERY careful in your criteria that you base your judgement of people with. Most often, you’ll be wrong. Would you like to speak to me about the possibility of joining us?

Dan, you are wrong about 2 things.

1) Primerica is no longer apart of Citi. That changed a few weeks ago.
2) You can’t use that last line online. It’s against compliance.

No comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So far most of the posts here have been about the recruiting and peoples good and bad RECRUITING experience. I don’t have any financial experience so most of what they (V, Richard, the financial blogger) are talking about. To tell you the truth I’m looking into joining the company, but I’m looking into it as much as possible. I’m not worried so much about their recruiting process, every company needs to grow and from what i picked up Primerica is all commission. What other motive would you have to recruit, unless you want more competition for yourself. Someone brought up the point of a high turnout rate, if its commission a lot of people would give up and leave and i actually didn’t think of that. As for the fees, the numbers do seem to be the same across the board. So far the most compelling piece of evidence I’ve found is from rip-off reports, there was actually a line in there directly from the editor saying he wrongfully accused the company and now stands behind its values and products. So far its all about the recruiting and that is putting people in an awkward feeling of a pyramid scheme in play here. If their products are good I don’t care about the recruiting process. If that’s the biggest concern then I’m sure there are people out there who don’t deserve to be in any position of teaching. Like that lady at the presentation who froze at the simplest question and got nervous. Anyways I just wanted to say Thanks for all the posts from everybody, I now think it isn’t a scam or fraud…just a bunch of people looking for answers in the wrong places. The company has been around for 30 years, what are the chances they’re doing anything illegal. They have awards and prizes claiming they do a good job, And its a good service they offer. At the presentation I went to i didn’t get any promise of it being easy or making millions in 2 months. They told me to get another job because this wont pay the bills for a while and hat its part time training. All i need is to pay for the license which is in the fee. No investment to open a company or anything like that. Even if its a scam…the little fee that I’m paying isn’t the worst. They didn’t even want me to pay in cash even thou i had that right on me. I will post another comment in the future if i do get screwed over by them or not…so you can be expecting another post in a month or two. Claiming my victory or demise…only time will tell.

And if my sentences don’t make sense i am EXTREMELY sorry. It’s late and i wrote this after reading pages of blogs after someone mentioned it may be a scam and Primerica was going to take out the money today. I wanted my answers before that happened. Yes I should have proof read my comment but I realized I didn’t right after hitting submit. thanks for understanding.

Saprda88,

You were actually not allowed to pay in cash. It has to be check, money order, cashier’s check, credit/debt card or direct check. Cash is not accepted in this industry.

Reasoning: Paper trail.

Saprda88, being your new to the industry, here is a tip. Read your contract as many times as you have to. Sit down with your recruiter and ask questions about anything you don’t understand. Ask about chargebacks, ask about giving up legs, ask about rollbacks, ask about the noncompete, Ask about compensation and what it takes to advance, ask if recruiting is required, and don’t forget to ask about the status with Citi and the future of PFS.

After all that if I were going to start with PFS agin, I would not take my recruiter to my warm market. One reason is once they purchase a product from PFS you will need to read your contract to see who has what right to that client. I would have my trainer train me on their clients. it really shouldn’t matter because once you do produce they will earn and override anyway. The thing is once you go through your warm market if you didn’t get any referrals you will have to cold market and people you contact cold tend to sholp unless you can wear them down to the point they don’t want the hasssle of dealing with more than one agent, but sooner or later they will hear something on the radio or see something on TV about Term rates.

So in closing, if it were me, I would go through the licensing and training and then make a decision on which way I would like to go. The initial fees might be low ($99.00) if it still cost that much, but to have to give up all that potential income from being captive and being subject to a noncompet (Check your state laws) just isn’t worth it to me..Yet this is my opinion…The financial services industry is evolving and the next few years are going to be exciting. Why be part-time and captive?

Hey Richard,

FYI if you dont understand it means it means “for you information”…Primerica is still part of Citi…where the hell did you get that news that it was no longer part of of it..if i where you i’d double check my sources…if credible..if any…so please dont make any comments that have no truth behind them..it makes you look not so professional…and secondly if you decide to leave the company(ies) your working and see the light and join PFS you can do so only after head office approves your application. so its all compliant!!

Mark C.

First, Primerica got moved to Citi Holdings. The part of the company that is, in essence, not a part of Citi. Citi is holding those companies for sell, closing, or for being spun off.

Second, I AM a Primerica Agent. Please read more before making accusations.

Hey Richard , with all due respect please read this quote from
(http://www.citigroup.com/citi/press/2009/090116b.htm) so that you can see that we’re still part part of citi just that we got divided into two categories: Core & Non-Core business…and so far there is no word from John & Rick and nothing is posted in POL nor my RVP have any messages that we are no longer part of citi as you say…nothing on CNN or any newscast about Primerica being sold or if no longer a Citi subsidiary…so far our logo hasn’t change yet! Anyways ,my apologies earlier i had only read one of your comments against Dan earlier:
“# 89 Richard Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Dan, you are wrong about 2 things.

1) Primerica is no longer apart of Citi. That changed a few weeks ago.
2) You can’t use that last line online. It’s against compliance.”

so that it is why i reacted like that, I will read in detail next time!:p

“Citigroup Inc. (NYSE: C) January 16, 2009
Citi to Reorganize into Two Operating Units to Maximize Value of Core Franchise
Separation of businesses to enhance future earnings power and streamline organization Realignment will put dedicated management teams in place at each operating unit
NEW YORK – Citi (NYSE: C) today announced it will realign into two businesses, Citicorp and Citi Holdings, to optimize the company’s global businesses for future profitable growth and opportunities. This structure will enable Citi to focus on driving the performance of its core businesses and, separately, on realizing value from non-core assets.
The strategic restructuring creates:
Citicorp, which will focus on leveraging the competitive advantages of the company’s global universal bank in more than 100 countries, and,
Citi Holdings, which will be made up of brokerage and retail asset management, local consumer finance and a special asset pool – whose management will focus on tightly managing risks and losses, and maximizing the value of these assets.
Citi Chief Executive Officer Vikram Pandit said, “Given the economic and market environment, we have decided to accelerate the implementation of our strategy to focus on our core businesses. This will help in our ongoing efforts to reduce our balance sheet and simplify our organization, which will enable us to better serve our clients and customers in both businesses without disruption. In light of the opportunities we see in the market today, we believe this new structure will provide a wide range of options going forward to continue strengthening our core franchise.
“With lower risk and a streamlined set of businesses, we expect Citicorp to be a high-return and high-growth business. And with the new Citi Holdings, we will be able to tighten our focus on risk management and credit quality for businesses with strong market positions but that are not central to our core franchise.”
Citi’s plan is to transition to this structure to the maximum extent and as quickly as possible, taking into account the interests of all stakeholders, including customers and clients, debt holders, preferred and common stockholders, employees, and the communities it serves. Citi recognizes that major legal vehicle restructuring changes like this will require regulatory approvals and the resolution of tax and other issues. But Citi will manage the company consistent with this structure starting immediately, and management reporting will reflect this structure starting with the second quarter of this year.
Citicorp
Citicorp will be a relationship-focused global bank to businesses and consumers. It will include “core” Citi properties and have a presence in high-growth emerging markets around the world. Citicorp will have worldwide deposit-taking capabilities that can be put to work with consumer and institutional customers in a diversified way to produce the highest returns, giving it a unique ability to deliver global capabilities locally and serve local clients globally.
Citicorp’s Global Institutional Bank will consist of:
Global Transaction Services: an industry-leading business with a global network in about 140 countries.
Corporate and Investment Bank: world-class relationship banking offering full range of advisory, underwriting, lending and market-making services; now re-focused with a lower risk profile.
Citi Private Bank: global banking serving high-net-worth individuals, including about 30 percent of the world’s billionaires.
Citicorp’s Retail Bank will consist of:
Branded card businesses globally.
Regional consumer and commercial banking franchises in the U.S., Asia, Latin America, Central and Eastern Europe, and the Middle East.
We anticipate that Citicorp will have assets of approximately $1.1 trillion and will be approximately 65 percent deposit funded.

Citi Holdings
Citi Holdings will be a group of non-core businesses that include attractive long-term businesses with strong market positions. However, they do not sufficiently enhance the capabilities of Citi’s core business, and in many ways compete for its resources.
The Citi Holdings management team will seek to maximize the value of these businesses by running them well, restructuring and managing them through this tough economic cycle, and taking advantage of value-enhancing disposition and combination opportunities as they emerge. These businesses and assets will initially include:
Brokerage and asset management: including the 49 percent stake in Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, as well as Nikko Cordial Securities, Nikko Asset Management and Primerica Financial Services.
Local consumer finance: including CitiFinancial and CitiMortgage in the U.S., and consumer finance operations in Western Europe, Japan, India, Mexico, Brazil, Thailand and Hong Kong.
Special asset pool: will manage the assets covered by the loss-sharing agreement with the U.S. government parties in the ring-fenced portfolio; and other non-strategic assets.
A search for a strong manager with operational experience and capital markets knowledge is currently underway to head Citi Holdings.”

Cheers!

Mark,

Again, the purpose of CitiHoldings it to sell those assets, not run them. I don’t care what CNN says, Pandit wants to ditch every single one of those companies. If it was simply to run the companies separate from core business, they would not have made it so clear they wish to sell every single one of the 6 businesses.

This comes from reading between the lines, all the other press releases over the years, and over 10 years business experience. In essence, we are no longer apart of Citi. When speaking with clients, I tell them straight up that we are breaking away from Citi and we are completely sound financially and that this is especially a great thing.

The benefit we have is that we get to pick and choose what happens to us.

In many places, the logo has changed. Marketing material, business cards, the life policy packets, etc. In every place possible the “a citi company” has been distanced from our logo if not removed.

My RVPs are gracious enough that they keep things as transparent as possible. With how long they have been around, and the friendships they have made, I trust their info.

Well the company web site hasn’t changed. It still reads “A Citi Company” Keep posting folks. I have to go see a few potential clients.

http://www.primerica.com See fro yourself..

Has the words “effectively” or “essentially” lost meaning at some point?

I understand legally Primerica is still a Citi Company. Effectively, essentially, etc, Primerica is no longer one.

Geesh, give it a rest.

Oh Rich,

Always want to have the final word..well if it make you happy man we’ll keep seeing it that way and what are you tryin to imply that i dont have that kinda of leadership..sorry to say where family..blood related…sooo i theres’s nothing else to add to that! Anyways, i’m not trying to focus on all this things that are not helping grow my business…I ‘ll just stay focus and help as many families and individuals as I can if in case its the end of the world…:p Don’t have to be so righteous man I already apologies geez take a chill pill and i know that Primerica can holds its own…any buyer right now would love to get there hands on us since we have the BIGGEST distribution system in north america…its like Mcdonalds..it u can manage to sell your product thru their chains you woudl make HUGE profits..because you can sell your products faster and with a longer reach! As always stay focused be humble and I will see you at the front lines!

Peace!

Well, between Richard and Mark, I’ve gathered what I come here to learn more about, and that is to better understand where Primerica sits in the Citi org. Now, if anyone cares to elaborate, why is that Primerica has not spun off on it’s own or there are no buyers? I know the answer has to do with price tag, but surely there’s a better explanation.

Also, Richard, please explain to me why Dan cannot suggest being contacted about the opportunity? I can understand the compliance issue if he said “talk to me about insurance” (or some other product). If he’s on the right coast and able to put a guy on the left coast in touch with an office, how is that out of compliance? Thanks for your insight.

I’m glad I could recharge some discussion here.
–
=JR (*not* a rep, but I know a helluva lot)

JR,

The reason is quite simply the price tag. Citi wants between $7 and $8 billion for us. Very few companies related to the insurance industry has that kind of cash just laying around. Much less financing that deal. Some of the companies that do, just want the book of business and not the sales force, which is not acceptable to Primerica.

As for Dan, it is purely a compliance issue. At the time of this writing, agents are not allowed to post recruiting ads (which that was) anywhere except on job sites that allow network marketing/business opps to post. In addition to that, they much also get approval from home office AND restrict the ad to only the areas they are licensed to do business in.

Posting on a Canadian blog that can be read across the world does not follow any of those criteria. Things may change after the break away from Citi, but only time will tell.

Hey Rich,

Thanks for the extra info, i have been so busy in the field with my team that havent had time to look around and update myself!

Appreciate it man,

Cheers!

Disapointed and well informed opinion: The whole concept of buy term and invest the difference MILICO’s ultra low cost 20 year level term seeems to have been replaced with a much higher cost term product. Current and guarantted rates! We offered everyone current rates, they (primerica) only offer a guaranteed rate as I saw it. Now even some cash value life products compare cheaper than the Primerica term they are selling these days. NO!!!! I’m not saying buy whole life or cash value or ROP, but I surely wouldn’t offer this overpriced product in good faith! About me… After becoming a sucessful P&C independent I rejoined under the Primerica program thinking it was as days of old a few years back. In less than a few weeks I realized how it had become a monster of a different color! Art Williams a man I met over 23 years ago in Duluth Ga and I still admire today should be taking on the Primerica pricing
problem as it exists today. Again in my opinion no longer a real crusade, just a Rah! Rah! bunch of mis-informed people doing possible damage that can in some cases never be fixed. Come on Art, I know you’re an old dude now but how can you let them do this to your legacy? Sacramento California 1985-87 Art you were and still are my inspiration to continue to do the right thing for the consumer… Don’t let them do this! PLEASE…

Hey DT, your entitle to your opinion okay so instead of whining here in the blog go to head office of Primerica and complain about it..or even better since you know Art personally as you say you do den why dont you give him a call and see if he can’t help you out..geez man you really think Art would really wasted his time reading useless blogs that try to put Primerica down! Not 1 company in the world is perfect so accept that already and move on with you life! If you were making million dollars a year in our company.I dont think you would be complaining…what happen to you did you leave or you got kicked out?? I guess the crusade wasn’t enuff for you already..only$$ in your mind right now.

Then again dont take my word for it..its just my opinion.

Cheers!

Doug,

What makes you think Art is not apart of what is going on with Primerica right now? I’m willing to bet he is part of the reason things are happening. Just my thoughts.

The crusade is still alive in many offices, but not all.

AMEN Rich!

Mornin`

This is one of the sweetest blog postings I have ever read. I hope to mean the world to someone one day to.

HEy mazgxldealer glad you like it well do your research and get the facts and exprience it yourself so that u see it with your own eyes!

Hey Rich Iam signing off for good..this blog is takin away from my time and it nevers ends from AA or RR so just wishing you good luck and God Bless to all the Primericans out there trying to make a difference…while building their legacy!

God Speed!

Mark C. I guess we should just let you post stuff and not hit you back with FACTS. What have we said that is not true??? You Primerica guys don’t have a leg to stand on. You only know onw side of the “debate” , while we have known the inside and we have experience on the outside of PFS.. There’s a biggggg difference…

AT, if you would ever actually use FACTS, then that would be fine. As I have said before, I have been both INSIDE and OUTSIDE Primerica. Primerica ain’t perfect, but it is far better than anything else.

And last I checked, your company, HBW, was started by a man FIRED from Primerica for ETHICS violations. And now you guys are about to start hawking a product that has more cloak and mirrors than anything to date. Damn, I hear the lawyers getting their pens and papers ready.

Richard get real. People can verify anything I post from the contracts or just by calling the company. Take a look at http://www.primerica.com and http://www.hbwinc.com and tell me which site has more information for people wanting to do research. HBW isn’t my company. They are a company which I choose to market with. Get this they arn’t the only one.

So your saying you have done the business by representing other carriers and other IMO’s? Exactly what cloak and mirrors are you referring to? Do you know there are people still making accusations they Art Williams was sent to jail, which of course is not true? Go with what you know, not what you heard.

AT,

The cloak and mirrors is easy to see. The new AIG product is trying to bundle products that are vehicles into a life insurance product in order to increase their own bottom line. Life insurance should JUST cover replaced income. Adding an annuity or Roth IRA to it just complicates the product more and adds fees that AIG can collect. The income rider is best left off with an increased death benefit. No one knows what will be needed after the fact so why try to guess it before hand?

When I was researching HBW, that kept coming up. Although by then I had already decided not to join HBW on the basis it had no long term benefit. HBW was started as, and continues to be, a salesman’s organization.

Richard let me say this one more time. You are where you belong. Consider this. A client has debts they wish to pay off immediately at death. the base policy can take care of that. Now he/she may wish to guarantee the spouse/beneficiary a certain amount of income per month, let’s say $2,000 for 15, 15, 20 or whatever years. So at death the beneficiary will get the lump sum payout AND the guaranteed monthly income payable to the beneficiary. As you say no one knows what will be needed after the fact, but at least having a guaranteed income is a good start.

** You say ” The cloak and mirrors is easy to see. The new AIG product is trying to bundle products that are vehicles into a life insurance product in order to increase their own bottom line. Life insurance should JUST cover replaced income. Adding an annuity or Roth IRA to it just complicates the product more and adds fees that AIG can collect.

The Fixed Indexed Annuity can be done as a stand alone or added at issue. When you do a policy and an investment program do your investment vehicles have any fees? The products are American General products, not AIG products. Are your products Primerica products or Citigroup products?

**You say “The income rider is best left off with an increased death benefit. No one knows what will be needed after the fact so why try to guess it before hand?”

So why do you add the IBR? Why not just sell the correct amount of coverage from the beginning? The PFS way.

The HBW way: Debts paid (lump sum) and a guaranteed monthly income (from the rider). NOW to complete the BTSD (Buy Term And Save The Difference) consider the Indexed Annuity..

Richard you really should do some research. You can start here:
http://www.hbwinc.com/annuities/

Then you can go here:
http://www.safemoneyplaces.org/

FIA’s are not for everyone, but at least have a clue what you are talking about. As always don’t take my word for anything.. Today it’s Buy Term And Save The Difference. Some people want guarantees.

Don’t forget you yourself said PFS is going to market a FIA..

I’m trying to stay away.

[...] products and the latter offers insurance and other financial services. I have actually done a full analysis of the Primerica structure over at The Financial [...]