PRIMERICA IPO : $100M PUBLIC SHARE SALE

hum do you think that the money raised will all go to Citi? it’s quite a good deal for Citi!!

I remember back in early university having these guys on campus attempting to recruit young business students for summer work promising lots of $$ and riches. Too bad once you attended one of their preachy sessions you realized all these guys were worried about was making money off of you making money on other people.

I can’t see these shares being priced anywhere near what Citi would want and it might just be a cents on the dollar effort vs. getting $0 for something.

Life is good ,and the bull market is back!

[...] AS OF 2009-11-05: PRIMERICA IS GOING PUBLIC! (AND THIS IS NOT A [...]

Without having seen any of the documents, there is a concept called novation where a new set of legal rights and obligations are entered into between the parties. The IPO may result in the novation of legal rights between the parties.

Most financial services companies state clients are theirs if an agent leaves. I am not sure how this would change the agent model. Isn’t the larger implication if the IPO is successful, now that you have quarterly earnings expectations to meet, sales and marketing tactics may be more aggressive?

“sell to their relatives” lol If you only knew what the leaders of this company have planned for the next 32 years.

TMW,
Well if you a real independent selling different products, the clients would remain yours. Or, if you look at Investor Groups for example, there is nothing preventing you from calling all your client and ask them to switch to another mutual fund company.

Your point is good regarding quarterly earnings expectations, this will surely change their business model as several agents are part time in the US. They will probably look towards more results from their sales force.

I do not know whether it is a good thing to invest in the stockmarket nowadays. I mean, the plunge protection team could be a sign that the market isn’t a free market after all?

clueless, and if you only knew that those leaders won’t be there for the next 32 years

Who moved my cheese? Citi knows the value of the life policies but the agents can go. Put the glass of kool-aid down for a moment and consider what is in YOUR best interest. Also if Citi is going to keep ownership of a block of business how does that effect agent “ownership”?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEAG06AfdNCQ&pos=4

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[...] the personal finance context, The Financial Blogger has long blogged on Primerica which is the most famous of all MLMs selling securities. As with everything else in life, [...]

Of course the money generated from the sale will go to Citi. That’s the point. Citi needs the cash!

The IPO will likely be offered exclusively to Primerica salespeople who’re at a certain contract level or higher.

Think about it. There are many hundreds of Primerica business owners who have 6-figure incomes and hundreds that are near or well-exceed the million dollar income, on an annual basis! Let alone their accumulated wealth due to years in the business.

$100 million isn’t a lot of money. I would bet that the stock will be sold quickly to the sales folks at the RVP level and above and any stock which isn’t purchased will be doled out to RVPs and up through bonus program incentives to generate more sales volume.

Ultimately the company will be owned by its sales force leaders. I’m already hearing the buzz among them as they’re anxiously looking forward to purchasing stock of their own company, and they have the money to do it – very wealthy people, and very ambitious people.

Once that’s done, the sales force leaders will be in charge of their own destiny. The only weird thing would be that the major shareholders would theoretically have voting privileges on the bonus and payment structures that they pay to themselves (and all the other salespeople). Sounds a bit like congress!

But seriously, so long as they practice what they preach (no debt, invest wisely, etc.) that same model should continue to translate into a successful business. Primerica currently has no debt, 4.7 billion in assets, and profits of about 500 million per year. When others were dying, they were still growing, and will continue to grow due to their proven MLM system.

The chance that a competitor would buy them out is zero (based on exclusive offerings to the sales force), but also based on logic. Citi has been trying to get a buyer for ages. If they couldn’t get one before, I doubt anyone will come in now! And remember that most of the financial giants are currently struggling. Where would they get the cash? Where would they get the leverage when they’re already overleveraged?

Well said, Jeff! You hit the nail on the head!! Go Primerica, Inc!!

Didn’t many PFS past and present agents own Citi stock? Something to consider is PFS will live and die by their field force. That’s MLM. The way the market is currently changing they will have to redesign their products and agent contract.

Now ask yourself this. Why should only RVP’s and above get special preference on stock purchase? Are you not one big family? At some point agents are going to ask themselves the question, what about me? Agents say they are in business within a business, but many in my opinion have more loyalty to the company rather than their own self business interest.

I’ve said it before if PFS offered a better opportunity for me I would consider going back. It’s business. It’s nothing personal. Primerica taught me that.

“When others were dying, they were still growing, and will continue to grow due to their proven MLM system.” So it’s not the BTID concept or the products? You hit the nail on the head.

That’s exactly what many of us have been saying. It’s the system and the contracts. Recruit and sell to the warm market. Recruit and sell to the warm market. Keep doing that and a person can make a good income.

What’s funny is at times on message boards we will see a reference to the $99.00 stat up fee. Well what is the real cost if a person builds a team and decides they wish to leave? Now the consideration is $99.00 with a non compete…What’s the true cost to the agent? Hmmmm. “I’m just sayin”

To: Answer This

I’m sure many PFS agents own Citi stock. Must have seemed like a good buy back when they were the largest in the world. Not sure what you’re getting at. If you’re thinking that Citi will offer some sort of stock swap, I doubt it since that wouldn’t raise the capital they’re looking for.

As for selling it to any agent – they might, but I doubt it. Not because of special status, but rather to use it as a motivational tool for people to acheive that status by growing their business (which of course makes more money for Primerica’s Insurance and Investment companies).

As for the MLM versus the BTID (Buy Term & Invest the Difference) – I don’t see how they’re opposed to one another.

The MLM is for the sales rep to grow a business. Businesses either advertise or use referrals or both. MLM is just the ultimate extreme of the referral model. Nothing wrong with it, but it can make for annoying sales people. But every business (including an MLM) needs a product to sell – that’s where BTID comes in, it’s the strategy for the customer to buy their products.

And they do have good products, nothing wrong with Term Insurance or Mutual and Segregated funds, but nothing you couldn’t get anywhere else either, and BTID is certainly not a philosophy unique to Primerica. It’s just unique that a company would market it. Typically BTID is talked about by TV financial gurus (Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, etc.), consumer magazines, financial book writers, but Primerica was the first to actually market it as a business strategy – and they’ve done pretty well.

I have to agree with Jeff furthurmore it is a great idea for primerica to stand on its own two feet because siting under a company that was at the pinnacle of the finacial sector an now lay in ruins is not the best look for a company with the potential of primerica because the fact is that if no sells rep ever sold another policy ever agin primerica would still rake in a cool 400,000,000 a yr from the policies that people pay into everyday now you show me a company that would still be in the black without anyone showing up for work. lastly primerica’s own numbers give it credibility as a Sovereign company. Quite impressive if you ask me.

Jeff – I spent 2 years as a PFS agent, but have since gone as a fully independent agent with direct appointments to many different companies. However I do take some exception to your comment that Primerica was the first to introduce BTID. Now one might argue that by association they did introduce it, however the reality of the situation is that Art Williams of AL Williams introduced BTID. Art’s philosophy was that the salesperson was the King or Queen of the industry. Art eventually sold his company, AL Williams, to Sandy Weill, Citicorp and said this of the experiencee, “For twenty-three years, I called thousands of plays as head coach of A.L. Williams. Some good, some bad. But the all-time worst call for me, personally? Selling A.L. Williams.” [Coach: The A.L. Williams Story, p. 318]

Now to the point of BTID – remember Ramsey, Orman are TV Personalities and they reach out to the greatest viewing audience. And yes, BTID can be a great philosophy for many clients, however there obviously is a purpose for other types of insurance.

Plus, independent agents don’t really need a company like PFS and typically clients can be better served by an agent with access to multiple top-rated, national carriers. Hopefully Primerica agents will seize the opportunity to reach for freedom, expand their understanding and learning about insurance industry and insist on doing “The Right Thing for the Client EAch and Every Time” without the constraints of an emotional attachment to a single company.

Just open one’s mind and let information flow. financialsuccessatcomcastdotnet.

Look at the numbers of Primerica. The profits are coming from policies that are 10 years or older. The only segments of the market that are growing are the Spanish and black markets which have high cancellation rates. I was recently told that only 25% of all new policies are staying on the books for more than a year. No look at the sales force, they have hovered at just over 100,000 reps for over 15 years and have lost nearly 20,000 securities licensed reps in that same time. They at one time had over 40,000 securities reps they are now under 20,000. I was with the company for 14 years a Regional Vice President and left because of being captive and no being able to do the right thing 100% of time. I also was not pleased that they called the reps independent but Primerica owns the clients and the reps for two year after you leave. They have one of the strictest no complete clauses in the industry. I am to understand they will be bringing more products in the securities market but they are still greatly under paid on the securities they write and the trails. Until now Primerica was able to keep the Citi shareholders at bay with only paying them a 12% of profits. I feel that the new shareholders will not be satisfied with that and since quite a few SNSDs at Primerica were heavily invested in Citi and lost a ton, they might just push the envelope. It’s possible they could do ok but they still won’t be able to compete toe to toe with an independent that knows what they are doing. I guess we will see after the New Primerica emerges in the next week. I guess I would end by saying if you want to build an organization selling a costly life product and a limited portfolio of investments Primerica is perfect for you but if you want to build a financial services agency and do the best job 100% of the time than you should do what I did. Feel free to send rebuttals to me ay wilerbear1 at yahoo dot com.

Bryan speaks the absolute truth. PFS people are good people, simply uneducated about financial services. 2 years with the company was perfect as I got my 6, 26, & 63 only to find out that as a Senior Rep I wouldn’t see trails on sales until I made Regional Leader. In other words, I had to recruit a bunch of people, my own production won’t get me to that level. The purpose of recruiting is clear in my mind – can you say, “warm market”. In the warm market you can rely on emotion to dictate the sale over product performance. Why not be free to write business with major top-rated carriers that suit client needs? Let the companies compete in the market place for the agent’s allegiance. Learn how to move on financialsuccess at comcastdotcom.

25% staying on the books? With advance on submission? Does Primerica report to vecter??? The chargebacks must be vicious.

Russell:

Just semantics my friend. I consider evolution from A.L. Williams to Primerica one company. You’re technically correct that they’re under different owners, but the personality of the company didn’t really change.

As for BTID – I didn’t just mention TV personalities. I mentioned financial books and magazines as well. You know as well as I do, that for long term investment strategies (10 years or greater), nothing in history has ever beaten growth stock mutual funds (or their growth stock segregated fund cousins). Any Andex chart will confirm this. Investments tied to an insurance product always perform poorer (any many times negatively), even if it’s a growth stock mutual fund inside an insurance policy because of the fees involved. For the average person, BTID is the best way to go. I’ll admit that for taxation purposes where someone has maxed out their yearly 401K and Roth 401K/IRA contributions, a UL/VL policy could become an investment tax shelter if the person could contribute enough money that the fees involved become proportionally less than their marginal tax rate from a normal mutual fund, but this typically involves very wealthy people, which is not Primerica’s market. How many people really invest the maximum to their 401K AND the maximum to their Roth AND have more money to spare for further investments? Very few. My experience is that the vast majority of insurance agents market these permanent insurance products inappropriately in order to get the great commissions at their client’s expense. It’s no accident that insurance salesmen have a bad rep.

Bryan:

Chargebacks vary from person to person (including their heirarchy). I’ve never heard of such poor results, though I have heard of as high as 25% chargebacks (which means 75% remain in force). You know that RVPs are actually given a rating based on various performance factors including % of policies that remain in force, and this rating determines their eligibility for bonuses. So the company does have financial incentives to promote quality sales. Such poor performance couldn’t be sustained for very long without going out of business, and their compliance auditors might get involved as well because something’s not right if that’s what’s happening.

As for the pay level, Primerica pays crap compared to its competitors – no question about it. The only way you’ll not starve is through recruiting and building a business hierarchy or working like a dog. But that’s communicated right up front in my experience. And if you do successfully build a business, you’ll earn a lot more than you would working for a competitor even with their higher commission rates. But very few have the staying power necessary to get through the hard times at the beginning. On the other hand, if you’re just looking for a part-time business to make some extra cash each month for some financial goal – it’s not a bad option at all, since other competitors typically won’t allow part-timers. No different than a part-time real estate agent.

I am well aware of the RVP rating on the Quality of Business(QBI) % of not takens or chargebacks. I also have connections in Primerica and see the income numbers. There are some increasing there numbers but the vast majority of Primerica’s top leaders (SNSD) level have taken 40%-60% declines in income over the past few years. They keep talking about record recruiting but the only thing that matters is income. My firm does take part timers but they have to produce once in a while. We hire part timers not Some timers. The reason I don’t fell good about the IPO is they can never duplicate the growth they had in the early 80s. They had a niche, and a enemy (Cash Value Insurance) which are far a few between today. Now they are trying to switch the enemy to fit their Debt Watcher program which I have a version of that I pay $250 a year for it’s unique. Primerica is the cheapest place to get you life, 6 & 63 licenses but once you get some seasoning you should look for a independent broker dealer and leave Primerica. Some spoke that they can sell their business. what they don’t tell you is your upline has first right on it before you can list your business for sale with Primerica and Primerica must approve the sale, you must be over $250,000 in income, have 5 years of growth and produce a RVP that makes at least 50k. I have watched RVPs get next to nothing for their business and then Primerica tried to get them to sign a more restrictive No Compete. Primerica is good to you until you leave. If you are producer like I was you letters weekly reminding you of the no compete. I had some great coaches that helped me develop a exit plan and deal with the no compete. To those Primerica reps that read this I was one of the top 1% of the securities producers for almost a decade. No only people that can’t make leave but so do those who have an open mind, “That what you don’t can cost you”, it’s that way in mortgages, insurance, securities and what you don’t know about your own Broker Dealer. Just Google (Revenue Sharing PFS Investments) and if you don’t know what revenue sharing is it’s a fancy word for legal kick backs. That’s were some of your commissions go. Also your SNSDs are probably getting your marketing dollars. The vendors at your big events are probably paying to be there, I know they did at mine. I did the work and produced and then the dollars that the vendors were suppose to give me for marketing went to the hierarchy to offset cost for the SNSDs event. Yea that fair. I was part of the system for over 14 years. I thank Primerica for teaching me a career I can be proud of but I simply outgrew their platform. Primerica is the the financial planning what a starter golf set is to golf. You can do some basics but if you need a specialty club you rout of luck. you just have hope that the club you have will work and not backfire. Do that in the securities industry and you can FUBAR someone entire plan.

Ok sematics or opinion, I’m not sure if that is what I’d call it, however I’m also not overly concerned with the history of it all.

When comparing the passion and determination and personal sacrifice demostrated by Art Williams and the 6 other original RVPs – Frank Dineen, Virginia Carter, Bob Turley, Fred Marceaux, Bobby Buisson, and Rusty Crossland to the leaders at Citigroup today, it just looks and feels quite different to me.

Manuel Medina-Mora appointed as Chief Executive Officer of Citi Consumer Banking for the Americas and Chairman of Citi’s Global Consumer Council while he maintains his role as Chairman and CEO of Citi Latin America and Mexico and continues to report directly to Citi CEO Vikram Pandit..

I don’t know, then just seems like a different company culture to me. Even if I were to consider John Addison and Rick Williams, co-CEOs the company looks and feels like a different culture. Same company or different company?

So is it the same company or different? you decide, but either way it is 2010, not 1977 and we can’t relive the revolution.

AL Williams lead a revolution role in the insurance world during the late 70’s and 80’s. I would argue that Art and his leaders modernized the life insurance world and force major insurance carriers to examine and change their product lines to better suit today’s world. However, at this point in time there is a vast numbers of product lines being presented by so many topr-rated carriers such as ING, American General, Transamerica, Ohio National, Lincoln Financial Group, Jackson National and the list goes on and on.

So my real question is: Why would an agent choose to limit their professional access to a single company? Companies which I deal with readily admit that their product lines are expansive enough to meet every situation and client so they work with independent channels. You see, the revolution is over. Art WON! He won big, not just for PFS but for the entire insurance industry and the clients whom they serve! It is time for the PFS warriors to lay down their weapons, pick up their pens and start writing business that will benefit their clients and their families. That is do the right thing for their clients, everytime. Don’t do it just because the RVP preaches it, do it because you know it because you have studied the profession. Instead of making accusations about non-PFS agents as if they are the devil, look around for yourself. Be open-minded once more, search for an opportunity once more, really dream again!

You can dream BIG! Take charge of your destiny.

Products continue to change and will continue to change. The agent that does the right thing for their client everytime must be equipped with knowledge and understand and be able to apply this information in the field. Financial services just ain’t so simple as BTID anymore than basketball is all about the pick and roll play.

Do the right thing every time for the client. Step up the game. Face your fears and go independent. Invest in YOU! No one company has all the products to meet the needs of every person in the world!

Ready to be an advisor not a salesperson find financialsuccess at comcast dot net

BTID as I said has plenty of application, however is there any reason why one company’s policy is the right policy for every person? Are the client’s best interest served by an agent that can sell only 1 company’s term policy. If an agent is going to do the right thing for a client everytime, then they must have the flexibility to shop the market and find the product that works best for the specific application.

Please tell me this – why does a person need life insurance? OK, you say to protect the family’s income stream. (I agree). Since we agree on this point, then we must agree that protecting a family’s income stream is important. In that case, what happens if the breadwinner doesn’t die, but is sick or hurt and can’t go to work? No income stream – what does a Primerica agent offer to protect against this type of income loss? Some statistics claim at certain times in a person’s life, they are 7 times more likely to become disabled than to die – and the best we can do is talk to them about life insurance. REally? is that true?

So maybe an IPO is a good thing if the board of directors will broaden the company vision, return to the foundation of the company which Art Williams had for the company, make the salesperson king and queen, and most importantly go after top contracts with top carriers. The question is – will they?

YOU know what? _________ A company already exists and people can find financialsuccess at comcast.net if they’re willing to seek out companies such as what PFS might become. Why wait?

Corrections: I intended to say companies readily admit that their expansive product lines are NOT expansive enough to meet the needs of every situation and client.

And yes, you can work your business on a part-time basis because – guess what? IT IS YOUR BUSINESS – really, no foolin’

Great exchange going. As for the BTID currently there’s a big market for Final expense. Today people are looking for guarantees. The baby boomers are looking at safty of principle and considering the distribution phase of their life.

PFS just won’t change or allow the agents to change. As for the part-timer who is just looking to make some monthly income they could do better going directly with Pre-Paid Legal rather than marketing the plans through Primerica. Directly with PPL they could get paid daily, earn renewals, build nationwide and in Canada and have ownership after 12 months. Now the kicker no underwriting and no licensing in most states and provinces.

All it take is a bit of information and then do a comparison. Watch the Pro-PFSer’s will come back and defend the company and not their business interest.

Actually Primerica reps can already sell Pre-Paid Legal.

Jeff sure they can sell the Primerica Legal Protection Program, but there is a big difference between compensation and agent agreements when selling it directly with Pre-Paid Legal. Here’s one.

Directly with PPL if an associate dies they can just pass the business on to the spouse. PPL associates have ownership after being an associate for 12 months.

What happens to the business generated by the sales of PLPP in the case of an agent death? Just for a minute forget the product and consider the contracts. Bypass The Middle Man. one more thing, get this. At PPL directly the spouse can be included in the associate agreement under the same associate number.

This isn’t a promo for PPL, it’s just information.

Is anyone going to announce all the new company advancements that were supposed to happen in early 2010?

There’s lots of new things coming, but they’re not for public information yet. IPO information is expected around April I think.