Comparing Primerica To Other Companies

This reply is to your opinions above. Obviously you have never engaged into the company or any aother financial company as you have missed the entire business building approach on two areas. First you can not compare other insurance companies and their intentions of their agents unless you have actually done it yourself. First area is products. Of course you can make bigger commissions with other companies because if they sell Whole Life or Universal life products they are gouging the middle income earner which represents 86% of Canadian Households. That is backed up by the Vanier report of Jan. 2006. The crusade that Primerica has on the insurance industry is buy term and invest the difference. Buying insurance at the lowest cost compared to having a savings plan inside your life insuranceis the best value for the consumer. By the way for your knowledge in those two plans if you want your money that you have paid into the plan, you borrow it from the insurance company at anywhere from 4-8%. IT IS YOUR MONEY!

Second this is a business building approach that if you learn your craft and and can teach a person to do your craft you are creating a team and yes you will override. All businesses override including all other insurance or financial companies. It does take on a franchise way of earning money , what wrong with that? Are you telling me that all real estate offices are bad. They operate in the same manner. Also let me point out this FACT, Primerica is the ONLY company to have more 6 figure income earners than any other company in the world. I will give you this though, as in any other business that operates on the globe, there are good reps and there are bad reps. There are people who make a lot of money and there are people who do not, but the point is our mission statement remains true, we only do what is best for the client. Maybe I suggest you sit down with an Regional Vice President and go over the total process before you come out with opinion. Notice that I said a regional Vive President and not someone who just joins or someone who does not generate any income in the business. The real challenge is is finding good , hard working individules who want to get a license and talk to people. Find a succesfull RVP and they will take you under their wing and teach what is best for the client. One last jab at your statement is that every business recruits through temp agencies or companies that have people screen resumes and pass onto the companies Human Resources.

You can work for someone or you can have income come to you in different streams through Debt Management, Insurance needs, or investment commissions. We use the same professional investment companies as every other financial company out there so again I express to you, go do some more homework and get your facts straight.

Dear Sandy,

I was expecting this kind of comment after writing so much about Primerica. However, if you read carefully my series, I am not trying to kill Primerica or say it is a bad company, all I am saying is that it is not as beautiful as what it seems. And it is not the case only for Primerica, several other companies pretend that they will give you the world if you work with (for) them. I am just trying to make things clear.

You are asking me to do my homework and revise my knowledge before I write on my blog. Maybe you could do the same in regards multiple usage of a CSV line of credit in a wealth management plan. Universal or Whole life insurance policies have their utility for wealthy people. I will not explain it as you may want to do your homework as well.

By the way, Primerica is not the only company selling term insurance, you did not invent the product. And yes, if you sell a term insurance with another company than Primerica, you will earn a bigger commission. You might have forget this part as several people working for Primerica seem to be completely brainwashed by the company mindset.

Let me quote a part of your comment:
“Also let me point out this FACT, Primerica is the ONLY company to have more 6 figure income earners than any other company in the world.”

There are 2 things in this quote that bug me. You want to point out a fact, but you do not advance any numbers. Where is the fact? Where did you get that information? Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong, but simply pretending that Primerica has the more 6 figures income earners on the planet is pretty easy to write!

The second thing is that working for a company that (supposedly) has the more 6 figures income earners doest not mean anything for ones personal situation. I look at more than a thousand files per year and I can tell you that I found millionaires in almost every work fields. There are obviously engineers, doctors and lawyers, but there are also teachers, metal shop worker and graphic designers. I you love what you do and you work hard enough, you can make money everywhere. Than again, I really would like to see some decent source of information showing Primerica as the best place to by in term of income.

I know financial consultants that are making 7 figures income. However, it does not mean that they all make it. Actually, most of them (in the whole industry) are starving to death. This is the honest truth about what is going on in this field.

I actually write this series to make people understand that working for Primerica will not make you rich within 3 years working 20 hours a week as it is presented by the company.

Sandy, I do not know if you read my other post regarding Primerica but I one of them I explain that I got most of my information from one of my friend who is a Regional Director at Primerica and will probably declared VP within another year. He tried to recruit me and we discuss several times for long hours. In the end, if I would be a financial advisor, I would not chose Primerica simply because they pay less than the other companies.

Last night, my husband & I met with friends of ours, a husband & wife, for dinner & their ‘presentation’ of Primerica. Prior to our engagement, I knew nothing of the company. As soon as we returned home, I googled Primerica to read some reviews to get a better scope of things.
After reading several blogs, I’ve decided that becoming employed in the company probably isn’t the route for us. However, I’m still trying to figure out what exactly, if anything, we should be interested in doing as far as debt consolidation & savings as a client through Primerica. Is there anything that those of you with several years in the company would honestly recommend or that is worth doing through Primerica rather than anywhere else?
Our friends will be meeting with us tomorrow to begin the FNA (is that right?), but that’s all we have going so far.
Any polite response is welcomed. Thanks!

Hi Chris,
when you are about to deal with a Financial Advisor, they will all tell you that they are working for the best company. However, all financial institutions have similar products! The real difference is coming from the advisor himself.

I would suggest to meet with your friend, let him prepare his plan for you and then shop around. No matter what he says, you are not bound to accept his proposition. Meet with more than one financial advisor from different company and then, decided the one that seems to be more trustworthy. Unfortunately, this is always a guessing game. However, by meeting with more than one advisor, you have better chance of finding somebody that will really help you out:-D

First, let me say that I love Primerica. It is true that PFS is not the only company to underwrite term life insurance. But what else is true is PFS is the only company on the face of this planet that ONLY underwrites term life. ALL other companies underwrite both cash value AND term life insurance. Even if you go to Dave Ramsey and get a quote from his preferred provider, which is Zander Insurance, you are getting quotes from companies who underwrite both types of insurance. The argument between term and cash value was settled years ago. Anyone who recommends, sells, underwrites, or otherwise peddles cash value life insurance is a thief. Even companies who provide term quotes for Dave Ramseys clients through Zander are quilty. I appreciate that Dave Ramsey teaches the correct principle of “buy term and invest the difference”. But he’s sort of sleeping with the enemy, don’t you think? So why Primerica? Because it’s the only life insurance company on the planet that hasn’t sold it’s soul down the river.

One other thing. I talked with a friend recently who has a Roth IRA with an “advisor”. This advisor is charging my friend an extra 1% on top of the normal fees and expenses normally charged by the mutual funds he is investing in. You figure out what 1% less on your rate of return over 30 years will do to your retirement nest egg. This 1% is not charged by PFS Investments on any client. I cannot wring any more commissions out of any of my clients than is already built into the mutual funds they invest in. My friend is pissed off. Wouldn’t you be? So who’s scamming who? It aint PFS!

I lied, one more thing. We preach that for most Americans there are really only 2 places to save money for retirement. The first place is your company provided plan such as your 401(k). Second is in an IRA, preferrably a Roth IRA if you’re still years away from retirement. This isn’t rocket science. If you’re maxing out your 401(k) and your IRA then you will put away $20,500 this year if you’re under age 50. You tell me how many Americans can save more than that? If you’re married and both work it’s $41,000! That’s about 98% of America! If you’re in the other 2%, go hire a CFP. Notice that annuities and life insurance are no part of a savings plan for the 98%. Annuities are only for high income earners who have already maxed out 401(k) and IRA or make too much to contribute. So if you’re one of the 98% and some “financial” guy is trying to put you into a cash value life insurance policy because it’s a great place to “save money’, RUN! If he’s trying to sell you on an annuity, RUN!

So anyway, there’s my ramble.

[...] those who know my blog for a while, you know that I am not a big fan of Primerica and its pyramidal structure. For those who are new to this blog, I invite you to visit my Primerica Series including the way [...]

Okey so I worked in primerica this summer for two months and was real hyped out about it, then I found out some things from another financial company, thought about these things and everything came together, or should I say fell apart… so I decided to leave the company

So these are the reasons I left primerica :

1. The primary reason is because their term insurance, on what your promotion depends is actually one of the most expensive terms out there, and as I noticed from their pay slips gets canceled alot thus alot of charge back. When an insurance agent sees that his insurance was replaced he will go talk to his client and offer the client a cheaper term if term is what they want. My trainer told me that its because their insurance can be renewed until age 90 or something (but it will be much more expansive then whole life this way cuz when u renew it the cost will be much higher, which defeats the purpose of term) and the other reason is their insurance covers war and riot, many others do not. the cost difference would be about 80 $ primerica term about 60 $ cheaper competitor, so if you think people would rather pay 20 extra bucks for war and riot, then this shouldnt be an issue for u, but i don’t from judging most the people that i know. Plus there was never really a war or anything like that in canada so the risk is really insignificant the way i see it.

2. Competitors offer much higher commissions, so it would be hard to retain your team when they find out they could be making x 2-3 more money elsewhere doing the same job. primerica investment you get about 1%, then 1.5% as district and finally 3.3 % as RVP. In the independant brokerage whom i talked they give 4% when you start, right away higher then RVP. And most of their insurance commission is 150% of yearly premium (even for most term insurance) and also other insurance have recurring payments for the next few years meaning you get paid for insurance that you closed before for next 3-4 years.

3. They have much more products which you can offer to suit peoples needs better. Primerica is like one shoe fits all, where as in another company you could actually choose different products that your client actually needs instead of just offering what you have. And you work with many companies instead of citi so you can actually pick the most competitive one on the market to offer your clients.

4. you sign a contract that primerica owns all your clients when you leave the company, well working for an independant brokerage you will own all your clients even if you decide to work for another financial firm or even open up your own.

5. you can still grow your business and have a team under you in another financial firm, but people concentrate mostly on production because they make more money that way, so you dont have to go all crazy recruiting.

Also I found out that all the stuff they tell us about how universal is horrible is not all true. Like you can actually withdraw not borrow your money from universal policy, the one where you cannot withdraw is whole life, where you cannot use accumulation value, and maybe some other universal life, some you can actually withdraw. Also some would pay out cash value at death, again it depends on the option chosen (this one is even in the provincial exam btw) And your investment in universal life is not a crappy one with low return as they teach, its actually any seg fund that you choose, and you can choose from all around the market, some are even better then common sense fund (primerica seg fund) . The thing is its actually a tax sheltered investment, so people will not have to pay tax on grouth, not even when they withdraw the money, so if used propertly this can be actually a decent investment.

I do not think that it is possible to be able to retrire and not ever work when you are 30 years old in independant brokerage, but to tell you honestly I dont even think you can really do it in primerica, i think its a fools dream to never work again. But you can make really good money working in a financial firm and help families or rip them off, that is the agents choice in that case, but either way you will be in control of what you do, and you will get paid very well.

MyWay07,

You missed a few points and apparently had a bad upline.

1. Primerica does not claim to be the cheapest. The term product is guaranteed renewable till age 100 regardless of medical condition. To someone who is healthy as a claim that doesn’t mean much. To someone with a family history (or a personal history) of cancer (or any of 100 other non-insurable conditions), it is a big deal. How would you like to be the one to explain to a couple that the only options they have is to cancel their policy, reduce coverage, or pay 5x to 10x more to keep their policy when they need the money most for medical bills?

2. Yes other companies pay more for individual sales than Primerica. But your commission numbers are off. Way off actually. 65% for an RVP for investments. It starts at 35% for a Licensed Rep. The real money that is made in Primerica, comes from being an RVP that has built a big team of people. And I don’t mean independent agents, I mean built OTHER RVPs. Like in real estate, do you want to override the work of one office or 6? Or in retail, own 1 store or 20 stores? You make more money by building it big then you do from selling product.

3. Despite popular belief, Primerica is NOT a one size fits all company. None of our products are one size fits all. If you truly understood how the products work, you would not have made that comment. Our life insurance can be customized to have the effect of 10 policies while only having 1. Meaning you can have part of your product fall off when you no longer need it. IE a 30yr level term to cover income replacement, 25 yr rider to cover remainder of the mortgage, 20yr to cover the education for the kids and a 10yr to cover debt. That would be one policy instead of 4. A price reduction based on total coverage, not individual policies. Also, 3 less policy fees. I have yet to see a policy from another company do this.

Also, did you know that the reason we have Level Term in the first place is because AL Williams created it?

4. It is true the company owns your clients. There are good and bad things about this. It is my belief it is done to protect the client, not the company. It was rampant several years ago (hear say so take this or leave it) that agents switched carriers every couple years and re-issued the old policies under the new carrier so they could just keep their commissions without having to grow. If that was true, is it better or worse for the client to always be getting new policies just so the agent gets more commission?

5. It is true you make more money up front on personal production. But do you want to produce all your life or build a team to do the work so you can retire? Many people argue that having to recruit to get promotions is a bad thing. The purpose of this company is to get people to be Business Owners and Investors. Both of which you have PEOPLE or MONEY working for you. Not you for them. Only way to make that happen is to recruit and build. That is true in ANY company.

You may want to read the policy instead of listening to another agent. The only money you can withdraw from a cash value policy without suffering a tax problem is the money you put it that was already taxed. They are tax sheltered investments, but who wants to put money into an investment that, for the first few years, gets a NEGATIVE 100% return? Insurance should never be used as an investment. Universal, and some Variable Universal, Life policies do allow the beneficiaries to receive both the insurance AND the cash value. You must pay MORE for this privilege. Is that right for the client, to have to PAY to receive there own money? Or to pay for those that left behind to get it?

If you do not truly believe that you can retire wealthy without having to work, or for someone to be able to (maybe not decide to) retire at 30, then frankly, you will not make it long in this business. If you do not believe the end result is freedom from others telling you what to do, you do not have the mentality, or the fortitude, to be a business owner in any industry.

I work for Primerica not because of the products, and not the people at the office. I have looked at other companies and seen the results first hand what happens to people I care about. I work with Primerica because of all the companies and products available, they are the only ones more concerned about the consumer than the bottom line.

I have looked at other products, and have not found any better. I have done the math on mortgages (a big headache) and know that a fixed rate simple interest loan paid bi-weekly will be the pants off any other mortgage out there. I know that mutual funds are for the common man who knows little to nothing about investments, but those that are savvy enough, and have the cash to burn, should talk to a stock broker or investment adviser. They will pay less fees. I know that the Long Term Care product we have through Genworth is better than all others because it does not require things that are common in the industry.

All this being said, Primerica is for the faint of heart. I have been offered many jobs at other insurance companies that provide leads, a base salary, and a decent commission. Too bad they would also require me to sell cash value to keep being paid. I have a friend at Edward Jones that even offered me a position. Turned him down.

What I find really interesting is that you only worked for 2 months then listened to a competitor and now you are bashing the company. Did you even get licensed or do any sales? Did you get a promotion? I know you didn’t go on any company trips or pay any death claims.

1. okey so for a family with history of cancer, and if they want to be covered for the rest of their lives isn’t it cheaper to get a whole life policy anyways? And if they are at a higher risk their term would be rated regardless of being with primerica or not. And if they want term they could still get non-cancellable and guaranteed renewable policy from anyone else, because it is not exclusive to primerica.
2. I know my investment numbers from my RVP, what you are saying is insance, nobody pays 65% of investment, you saying if i make a 200 000 investment i get paid 130 000? I know what ive been told in my office and i wrote it down… RVP makes 3.3% investment.
3. Now you are saying like primerica is the only company who offers term riders. Any policy even whole life can offer term riders, and i haven’t seen people being forced to get a second policy to cover their mortgage or children. Maybe some agents do rip off their clients and do that, but i am saying in independant companies you could be fair or not, but u have that option. And what i meant by premerica is like one-size fits all, is because they offer the same product to everybody. You cant assume that everybody only needs term. People have different needs, and different products to address them. What if someone wants to leave an inheritance to their children? cover estate taxes? cover the risk of disease so if they have a critical illness there is still income replacement? Or if their job has a high risk of getting injured and doesnt offer any disability coverage or just not enough of it. See what i mean, you can actually customize the solution with term riders or any other types of insurance.
4.You are generalizing here. You assume just because the agent has the ability to do that that everybody does. I think primerica did that to retain the agents when they find out the truth and decide to take their business elsewhere. Again i am looking at it from a career point of view, and if the agent is responsible and ethical he would have more possibilities working for an independent brokerage. You could work for a firm and you could open your own firm afterwards and still have your clients and referrals.
5. Okey so you agree that you can make more money producing in another company and if you can still build a team as well in independant brokerage, that you will make overrides over , then why would anyone would want to stay in primerica when they find that out. You make more money, and you build a team and can ultimatly open your own office. Same deal, only you make more money. And if the only way to make real money is by recruiting and building a team, everybody would be concetrating on building and not producing. Where is the money coming from? In truth i kno the answer to that, there are recruiters in primerica and there are producers in primerica. The problem is when producers find out they could make x2-3 times more money doing the same thing in another place what would hold them back? … Maybe that contract that primerica owns all their clients?

That is true that the investment doesnt make any money in the first few years, but we are talking about long term investment… What if in the long run it makes more money then another because the grouth is tax sheltered. See the thing about Universal Life is yes they teach you that it is a complete garbage in primerica, and everybody seems to blindly believe that… So when I found out there might actually be a use for it, i started thinking. The way primerica teaches you is still very biased, so i decided not to base what they tell me solely on what they teach me. Truth is i think i know to little of Universal Life to make an educated decision whether its good or bad, thats why I did not start going around canceling all my family friends policies.

Okey you are jumping to conclusions… I never said that I think I have more freedom working for somebody else. Yes i do think that it is impossible to retire early. You can semi retire but when you start your own business you still have to work on managing and maintaining it. If you just trust someone else with your business just because u are too lazy and want to retire then that person might make a few bad decissions and there goes your business… I do want to ultimately run my own business that would operate while im away on vacations, but I would never leave my business entirely to someone else so I could relax for the rest of my life. Maybe primerice system does allow people to never work again and collect in millions… these money come out of the hard working agents that are struggling to make their ends meet. The upline goes way up, and i am not willing to work my ass off just so some person who invited a bunch of people back in the day can relax the remainder of his life.

I dont know who you talked to, but i know that other compaies don’t “require” you to sell cash value, you could make the same or more money then in primeica selling term, yes you will make more selling cash value, but like I said: its up to the agent to be fair. You will not get fired for selling term insurance and you still get 150% commission of that kind of insurance. And you make much more commission of your investments.

I am happy that I only wasted 2 months and not 2 years like some of the people i talked to. I did get a license, but right after that I found out the things that i talked about, and decided not to go ahead and “plan” for my relatives and family friends, because i figured that this might not be in their best interest. I think that to be a true financial adviser you have to be a little more educated then what primerica teaches you. I saw most people are more like salesmen that give the presentation that the company teaches them, get the numbers and then just let the computer do its thing… This is not true financial advising… these people are more like clowns that this article is talking about.

Just to make things clear i did not make this post with the intention to bash primerica, but rather to give people who consider joining this firm more information that I was looking for before I joined the business.

Lastly Ive talked to RVPs who are were serious about this business and never made more then 50000$ a year. I have seen people who left primerica to work in an independent brokerage, and yet i have never seen people that came from these independent brokerages to work in primerica… now how would u explain that?

1. In most cases, Whole life is more expensive. There are policies that also fit in with guaranteed renewable, but most are not LEVEL renewable. Primerica policies renew to another level term product without doing anything (one restriction applies). Just because they have a history of it (or previously had it) does not mean they will automatically get rated. In most cases, after 5 years of being cancer free, we will cover normally. They may not get Preferred or Preferred plus, but they wont be rated either.

2. Most investment firms have a dealer re-allowance. From that is where the commission is taken from, not from the whole investment amount. That is basic knowledge for anyone dealing with investments.

3. I never said ours was the only one. I know whole life can have Term Riders, but how many other Term products can have Term riders? I don’t know of many. I know we don’t have products to cover all situations (another reason we are NOT a one size fits all company), but that may change once the sell is complete.

4. It was a generalized statement because it did happen. Not all agents did that, but many did. I still believe it is a matter of protecting the consumer, not the agent.

5. Because you only make more on personal production. From all the commission and override charts I have looked at from other companies, you make little money on overrides and bonuses. I did a comparison with HBW’s structure. Just on overrides, Primerica paid about 4x more. Upfront, HBW paid about twice as much. On the back end though, they lacked.

I never said Universal was complete garbage, but who would invest in something that LOSES value the first few years. You can get better returns by investing in Mutual Funds and have substantially more at retirement than in a Universal (or any other cash SURRENDER value policy). Do the math. You can have tax sheltered accounts that will earn much more than ANY cash value policy out there.

What conclusion? I pulled from what you wrote. You don’t believe it is possible to retire by 30 or to never work again. That is the logic of an EMPLOYEE. If you are a business owner, you do not have to work. The business brings in the income and you just live. Being an Investor is even better, then the money is working for you. Read Cash Flow Quadrant by Robert Kiyosaki.

They may not require it, but they also don’t have to pay you on time for selling term. It has happened to many agents. They try to sell only term, then there commissions start getting “lost” or “delayed in processing.” Sell only term for 6 months and see what happens to your checks.

Letting the computer do the work saves the agent about 5 hours of processing. What the agent does with the report decides how good they are. Any agent that just blindly follows it is a poor agent. That goes for any company.

It’s a shame that the RVPs you talked with only make $50k. I work with 4 that make over $150k and 2 more that are quickly approaching the $100k mark. I have also had the pleasure of working with some making $2 million plus.

Primerica isn’t meant for the salesman (most independent firms), Primerica was built for the average Joe to learn about finances, become debt free and financially independent. Most don’t come from independent firms because they know its a pay cut, don’t believe in the network marketing model, don’t like being forced to recruit to get promotions, have a bad taste in their mouth from so many policies being replaced, etc. Take your pick.

I’ve met several that the only reason they DIDN’T join was because of the network marketing method and the forced to recruit to get promotions side of things. They also failed to realize WHY that is the case.

1.What i meant is renewing a term policy until 100 years old, even though they may not get rated will be more expansive then whole life, because after your term expires your rate (even though remains level for the next period) increases substantially. The whole point of term according to primerica is to cover you until you have accumulated wealth for yourself, so insurance should not be permanent. Now if this really is the philosophy of primerica then why charge extra for guaranteed renewable? if somebody plans to have insurance for the rest of their life, then whole life would be more cost efficient and they can use it for inheritance or whatnot. The point is in an independent brokerage you have the option to give the client the same renewable term, or you can have cheaper non-renewable, or you can have a cash value u have the option to offer any of these according to the clients need and desire.
2. Okey so maybe I have to apologize that in primerica they did not teach me the common method used for estimating investment commission in the industry. That is one of the things that bothered me most about this company, is that you are not shown the complete picture but rather just things from primerica point of view. The way I was told when I was recruited and through out this whole time is like I said 1% of the investment, 3.3% at RVP. Regardless of which method you use your commission will be much higher in another firm, and it would be easier to retain your team.
3.Okey so you agree then that primerica then doesnt suit all people? There is only one specific type of people that are in a predefined situation that only then primerica will work for them? What i meant by one size fits all is that they can only have one solution, and you better hope that it would suit your clients needs, otherwise you have to push them so you make a sale or you leave them alone because you cannot actually help them. And what do you mean by that changes once the sale is complete that may change?
4. My argument that it is done to protect the company and not the agent or client. Churning and twisting is illegal. Isn’t there regulations in the industry to control that anyways?
5. Well different companies have different structures on overrides, but once you have your team (which as i said would be easier to build because they get paid more), you could start your own company and set-up the override and commission structure the way you and your team wants. And I know people working in independent brokerages that make three figure incomes without having any overrides.

Maybe you dont have to do the physical work in the field like seeing clients, but you still have to manage your business that is what I referred to as work. And I wasn’t only talking about primerica or financial idustry. Like I said this could work for primerica but any successful business that i know, owner still prefers to have a say in the company, and successful investors still bothers to ask and in some ways regulate the company they invested in because they do not want to loose their money.

See that is the problem with the network marketing model is that the people who reap the benefits of it its the people who bring a lot of people and not the people who do a lot of work, these people are usually the ones who suffer and are underpaid. Now if everyone wants to be successful, everyone wants to build the business and not work them self that creates a problem as people concentrate on bringing people and not working, where is all the money coming from. To build a huge business you need to recruit like crazy, and how would you retain your workers once they find out they could be making more money, because not everybody will be able to constantly bringing heavy volumes of recruits. The only way to retain them as ive noticed is to constantly talk about dreams of building a huge business and what you would spend your money on, but nothing tangible, and only 5% in the company actually make it there, that is a lot of lying.

1. Primerica rates will not sky rocket with the auto renewal feature. Previous policies did do this as do other companies. The current product offered renews based on obtained age at the same category (preferred plus to preferred plus, preferred to preferred, etc.). It gives this option to those that either do not have the money set aside to retire and still need the protection, or for those that wish to keep protection. The product will stay affordable all the way to age 100.

2. A higher commission will not equal keeping and recruiting a bigger team. It simply means being paid more. If you recruit the right people, and the right kind of people, the commission doesn’t matter. I know I can make more else where but I am not here to make shit loads of cash. I am here to protect families from the atrocities my family has gone through from simple mistakes. From what I have uncovered, no other company will let me do that, and do it my way.

3. No 2 plans are alike and anyone who does believe we are a one size fits all company, truly knows nothing about this company. When the sale happens in the next few weeks (I believe it will be the next few weeks anyways), changes will start happening. The belief is higher commissions, even better products, and I believe even a wider variety of products.

4. There are regulations. Twisting may not apply because it may truly be a better product. Churning might not either if the agent gave the client the option of either or. It is all a matter of how the agent presented it. The fact of the matter, it very well could have hurt the client when they least expected it. If you get down to it, going from Term to Whole Life could be considered Twisting. As well as moving from Level Guaranteed Renewable to Guaranteed Level. In both cases the premium is either going up or removing a feature. In order to prevent twisting, it must be for like to like or better.

5. Hate to tell you, but the insurance companies set the commissions for there products, not the agent. Also, just because you can pay the agent more does not mean you have a better quality of agent. I could make a killing off of selling Cash Value policies, but I choose to sell term. What was that saying again? Sell Cash Value to Eat, Sell Term to Sleep?

Business Owners and Investors do NOT need to manage their money or businesses. They have people do that. They may choose to, but they do not have to. Do you think Warren Buffet manages his 150+ Starbucks? Those that fit these categories hire (or recruit) people they trust to run it for them so they don’t have to worry about it. That is a benefit to being one.

You are mistaking about Network Marketing. It is one of the best ways to make money. Robert Kiyosaki agrees with it. Granted it is not gospel, but where else can hard work truly pay off. Yes you have to recruit, but you also have to work your ass off to train those new people, train their people, and so on and so forth. You have to manage all of them. Keep their spirits up when they get down from someone telling them “No.” With Network Marketing, you have to work twice as hard at first to get half as much. A little down the road, you get just as much with less work. A little farther, you do half the work and get paid twice the pay. Near the end, you do none of the work and get paid all of it. It takes time.

The best way to get your own dreams, is to help others achieve theirs. That is how Network Marketing works. If you do not understand that concept, I implore you to change your thinking.

I work full time and make a good living with a manufacture in Ontario, also my wife makes great money ($37/hour) just recently I was approched by a family member who is an employee of PFC. I went to a meeting and yes they are very convincing with the “show” they put on but there were REAL people there and I spoke to them and to be honest I was impressed with what they told me. Look these financial companies are going to bash eachother whenever they have the chance and that will go on forever but if you don’t take a chance once and a while your never going to know what could have been. Don’t forget you can do this PART TIME and don’t have to quit your day job, it’s an opportunity to do something different and make money while your helping others. You don’t have to get licenced in mutual funds and other investments right away you can start buy talking to others about what you are doing and how it helped you, you can build a clientle for you once you get licenced in life insurance, that’s what I want to do. There are many products you can sell without getting licenced with PFC, then build that team to help you. My goal is if I can make $3-4000 a month part-time then I’m a happy camper, but I will never know unless I try. Every company in the world trains,recruits,use refferals,cold calls,sets appointments all do this. CIBC will say they are better than RBC, RBC says they are better than Royal Bank, Royal Bank says they are better than BMO and on and on and on. So I am going to try it for my family and see what happens, you talk about loosing you clients when you leave the company, I don’t know about you but if I am with an organization for years and I’m happy and protected and my agent calls and says “you are with me now not PFC” I will freak out and do what I can to stay with PFC or whoever I am with. THEY PROTECT THERE CLIENTS NEEDS. Just like everybody else says they do. Get licenced for life insurance and you can do not only that but debt consolidation,legal wills,car and auto,mortgage consulting,credit in general. You can keep going on your own or have people do it for you that’s the best part. 2 families a week is all you really need to have a comfortable PART TIME income.

I have a question ,What happens to my moeny when I cancel my family plan,, paying approx. 60. /mo. I have been with PFC for over 18 months. I am a single Mom. I had to cancel for serious financial reasons. What happens to my monies that I invested in, do I loose everything?? am i able to get somthing back? I am unable to reach my Rep. so i have decided to ask here.

thanks-

Let me see if I can help you Carol. I’m assuming you have a typo and meant PFS. I’m also assuming you are paying $60/month for your PFS life insurance policy. You’re saying you need to stop paying for your life insurance because of a serious financial set-back and you’re wondering if you get any money back. The short answer is no. Term life insurance is pure life insurance. There are no bells and whistles with term, no fancy savings account (cash value, which is a rip-off). Just like your auto insurance or your homeowners insurance, if you stop paying your premiums, you’re not going to get a check. Now you may be wondering why this is. Well, consider this. If you had purchased a cash value policy like whole life or universal life, your premium for that same amount of insurance would have been 5 to 10 times as much as the $60 a month you are paying for the term product you have. Cash value premiums are ALWAYS more than term for the same amount of insurance. That would be 100% of the time. Let’s go with the low number and assume your premium would have been around 5 times as much. That means you would have been paying $300 a month for the last 18 months for the same amount of insurance. And guess what? Because of how surrender charges work in cash value insurance, you would get nothing back being only 18 months into your policy. Most cash value policies have 100% surrender charges for the first 3 to 5 years. What a wonderful savings vehicle huh? So you could have paid $300 a month, canceled your policy and get nothing back or pay $60 a month for your PFS term policy, canceled it and get nothing back. Which one is better? Now what if you had still “invested” $300 into your PFS plan? Well, $240 would have gone into a savings account like an IRA or maybe we would have had you bump up your 401(k) by $240. Either way, you would have around $4,320 ($240 X 18 months) that would be yours and you could tap it if you really needed to. Why, because your IRA or 401(k) don’t have ANY surrender charges. Zero, zilch, nada, didly sqaut! So $300 a month with a cash value policy and end up with nothing, or $300 a month doing what we suggest and have $4,320. I don’t know. You choose. Hope this helps.

Carol,

If you can’t afford to have insurance, you can’t afford NOT to have it. If something were to happen to you with a policy in force, your children (assuming they are the beneficiaries) would receive the payout. If you do not have one, someone has to pay to bury you, no one will receive money to help raise your kids, and your assets will need to be sold to cover your debts again leaving your kids with nothing.

It doesn’t matter who you have for life insurance. If you can’t afford to have it, you can’t afford to be without it. Since you can’t get a hold of the agent that wrote the policy, you can change the agent by making a phone call (should be in the policy, front page).

Carol,

Insurance is probably the most annoying expense you have in your budget. However, Richard is right, if you stop your insurance due to financial problems, it’s like gambling at the casino that you will be alive and top shape next. Nobody knows. if you have dependents (children, brother, sister), they would be in a deep hole if anything happens to you AND you canceled your policy as well.

Hope you find a great solution and you keep your life insurance policy.

I have worked with American General, New York Life and now independent. I have been in the life insurance biz for 9 years. Its simple people, if you get agents from NYL, Prudential, Northwest Mutual, Hartford, Transamerica, Farmers, Allstate, and any other large life insurance provider in a room together you feel that all these agents have a somewhat mutual respect for each other. If you ask them what they do and where they work, they will clearly tell you what they do and where they work. If you add a Primerica agent it the room all respect is lost. Why? Because they hide at what they do, and they offer term and invest the difference. When we sit down with client, the clients will let us know what product will suit their situation, not this product will meet your situation. It pretty sad that these agents are allowed to function as they do.

Jose,

If you look at the history of the insurance industry, you will find that all those companies work together day in and day out to get Primerica shut down. Not because Primerica does bad things, but because Primerica shows the wrongs of the industry as a whole, and corrects them.

If I recall correctly, within a few months of AL Williams being formed, while still limited to just Georgia, there were already bullitens in ALL 50 states “warning” people of the dangers of the company. 32 years later, Primerica is still here and one of the, if not the, strongest of all. (Look at last quarter earnings. I believe Primerica was the only one with profits and no debt).

It’s a shame. The industry could have quashed AL Williams if they just fougt fair instead of using under handed tackets to discredit the company, like you just did.

If you doubt any of this, look at the history of all the companies, the regulatory fines imposed, etc. If my history is correct, Primerica has only had a $13.5k fine imposed over wording on a brochure. Prudential had a $220 MILLION fine imposed over twisting policies and defamation, items your companies accused Primerica of doing.

Since you assume I have no credit for being associated with Primerica, don’t take my word for any of this and look it up. When you see I am right, please post back and let everyone know.

Jose can you see? Why is the industry so anti-Primerica? Is it because for 32 years we have exposed your corrupt industry for what it is? Is it because 32 years ago we gave you the first taste of actual competition and you didn’t know how to handle it? And you still don’t. What you said in your post should make every consumer in America shudder. When agents from supposedly competing companies can get together in the same room and sing Coom-buy-yaaaaaaaaa, there is something terribly wrong with that industry. Maybe you all can get together and have a warm-fuzzy while you laugh at how much you are screwing the consumer. But as for me, I will continue to do what’s right for them. Here’s a personal question for you Jose. Do you own the same crap you sell? My money says you own term, but you sell trash value. That’s the standard MO for the trash value industry. I have yet to run into any of you who owns the same crap you sell. You all own term on your own life, but you screw your clients with complete financial garbage!

Richard & Eric,

When I have replaced about 20-25 over priced term policies from Primerica in the past 7 plus years with universal, whole and term polices that is not competition. You are not the competition, the competition are all the other respected financial firms I mentioned before, that is my competion.

That same room are NAIFA meetings, that’s the association that caters to us professionals. Are you a NAIFA member? Do you have any designations from The Americal College? LUTCF, CLU, ChFc, etc…What is right for the client is what THEY tell you they need when you meet with them NOT what you think they need before you even know the client..

I will not have communication with tunnel vision unproffesional individuals. So keep your full time and part time jobs as they are and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Oh! by the way, I carry a $250,000 whole life policy from New York Life which I bought 7 years ago and a 1.5 million dollar 30 year term policy I purchased about 4 years ago from AIG/American General.

Communication is terminated.

Jose,

After 7 years, prices get cheaper. It is not surprising you were able to beat the price. But just because you replaced them, does not mean it was a better choice for the client. Ultimately, the client has to decide that and not us.

Since when did letters after the name meant one was qualified to be anything? When I went to tech school, I had an instructor with half a dozen abbreviations after his name from the likes of CompTIA, Microsoft, Cisco, etc. I was teaching the classes with nothing after my name while he was learning from me. I was the student mind you.

For a price, a “lady of the night” will cater to a professional. NAIFA requires fees to join. I can think of better uses for my money than paying an organization to do what Primerica already does for me for free.

After looking at what the benefits are for membership, I see that one would get screwed either way. I get the software as part of my $300 annual to POL. That includes all updates to the software as well as the software itself, access to Morningstar (~$1500/yr), my E&O Paid for (~$600/yr), WinFlex (LTC Illustrations. Can’t find it’s price), quick access to the latest regulatory information, on call lawyers and advisers at home office, licensing information for all 50 states and then some, plus much more. In addition to what I am already saving by not being what you call a “professional,” what incentive would I have to spend ANOTHER $480/yr plus the price of the “benefits?”

So by being a Primerica agent, I am saving close to $3k/year if not more, for being a “tunneled visioned unprofessional.”

My clients do tell me what they want. I only suggest certain products after getting to know them.

You call me names without getting to know me, how unprofessional of a professional. As for your policies, you admit that you carry a $250k OVER PRICED term policy with a very poor savings plan and a separate $1.5m term policy from a company under investigation for squandering tax payers money after having questionable business practices.

It’s a shame you wont continue the conversation and instead doing what a traditional, whole life agent would do when faced with facts from a Primerica agent. Run. At least that has been my experience and that of my fellow agents.

Did everyone notice how Jose did the old cut and run? As for all these industry designations, I’d just use them for toilet paper! Here’s the only credentials I need to have. I had a Universal Life policy. I paid into that piece of crap for 11 years. It wasn’t until an unprofessional, non-credentialed, part time Primerica agent came to my house and had the guts to sit down with me at my own kitchen table that I learned the terrible truth about what I had. We looked at my latest statement. On the back it gave me the month and year my policy would run out of money. That date was 34 years from the date I purchased that policy. You know what happens when your UL runs out of money? You have 2 choices. Either you let your insurance lapse and cancel or you begin paying outrageous premiums. So what I really had was a 34 year term policy. That’s how I looked at it. There was no chance this policy was going to make it to age 95. Try age 67. Here’s the rub. I could have purchased a 30 year term policy from Primerica for less than half of what my UL cost me. Now I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being ripped off. I bought my UL with the absolute intention that it would last my entire life. Did it? Not even close. See, for 11 years I should have read the fine print on the back of my statement. But being a normal human being, I didn’t. And I’ll bet 99% of the people who read this don’t either. Well you better. I poured money down a rat hole for 11 years, how about you? I don’t need some fancy letters after my name to have some common sense, pull my head out of my rear end and actually read. And you know what? It was a guy with all those fancy letters after his name who sold me that piece of crap. You can take all your fancy letters and do you know what with them. So Jose says he owns whole life. Well that just proves how stupid someone can be who has letters after his name.

Financial Blogger is nothing but a cry baby who loves to give out information based on their own feelings, somewhat misleading since is based on one’s own feelings. You might be good at arguing and fighting for your own opinion on something, but look, it is not about Primerica anymore, you need some help. What you are doing is not an act of god, you should stop give out your own opinion on something, but instead, letting people search on their own, market equilibrium will balance out the right and wrong ones. And you, can save some breath. There is no need to to discuss about Primerica since we are not on the same level in term of understanding a matter and goals.

Michael,

If you would bother to understand what TFB did, you would not have written that.

TFB wrote his opinion based on what he experienced and understood. He then asked for clarification from those outside of his local area to get a better idea.

You may also want to double check your state laws as well as the compliance handbook. I believe you just violated both by directly insulting him without regard for facts. That being said, I have no problem insulting people if the facts support it .

And if you believe you can do a better job, do it and stop complaining. Stop being part of the 95% of people who would rather complain than work, and work.

Richard,

I am sorry but I could not overlook your decription of my whole life policy. Did you call it a savings plan, where in the name did you get that its a savings plan. Who told you it was a savings plan? I am just amazed!!! Whole life is a permamant life insurance policy. This policy will cover some of the estate taxes that will have to be paid when my children inherit my belongings. It is an estate transfer tool to offset estate taxes!!!

Cash value policies have 2 parts. Term insurance and a savings component. Hence the savings plan feature. Just because that part may not be used, does not mean it is not available. The policy just may be designed so that all the premiums go to the company and there is nothing left over. Read your policy, it’s in there.

The other side of it is that the whole life policy’s cash value will never exceed the death benefit, in effect, you are saving money to cover your own death reducing what the insurance company has to pay.

Same thing with the guaranteed acceptance policies that are always advertised. After a couple years, you have paid enough into that policy to equal the face amount.

Insurance is a way to cover against an unexpected loss. That is all it is. There are other ways of reducing or eliminating estate taxes altogether. Do you really think Warren Buffet or Bill Gates (their respective heirs) are going to be paying estate taxes? And no, they didn’t spend money on a whole life policy.

As far as where I learned that from? All the cash value/whole life policies I have replaced. It’s in the fine print, but it’s in there.

Calculators don’t lie Jose. Check out the October 2007 issue of Inc. Magazine. There is an article in there about life insurance for estate planning purposes. They give the numbers on a guy who purchases a $500,000 whole life policy at age 38. He will pay $14,400 per year for 15 years and then his policy is paid up. That’s $1,200 a month for 180 months for a grand total of $216,000. The article then goes on to say that he COULD (emphasis added) have $3 million in this policy at age 80. First of all, the $3 million at age 80 is a lie. By definition, you cannot have more monies in cash value than the face amount of the policy. If that happens, the policy is in danger of turning into a MEC (Modified Endowment Contract). Whole life is designed so that your cash value exactly equals your death benefit on your 100th birthday. So I don’t believe for a minute that his policy COULD have $3 million at age 80. It WILL have $500,000 on his 100th birthday. Elaine Appleton Grant who wrote the article obviously doesn’t know diddly about how life insurance works. Oh, but she can sure write about it!

So enough of that, let’s crunch some numbers. This 38 year old could have purchased a $500,000 30 year term policy for around $100 a month. So let’s see how much he would have in savings if he put the $1,100 a month “difference” into a good solid mutual fund that historically averages around 8%. If you crunch the numbers on that, he has $380,000 in savings at the end of 15 years. Keep in mind he still have 15 years to go on his 30 year term policy. So if he were to die right now, his heirs would get $880,000. Right? How much would his heirs get with his 15 pay whole life? $500,000. Now let’s figure out how much he will have in savings when his 30 year term runs out. To compare apples to apples, he now stops putting $1,100 a month into savings and pulls his $100 a month premium from his $380,000 in savings. So in other words, his “buy term and invest the difference” plan is now paid up. If we continue to use 8%, he has $1.25 million in savings when his term policy runs out. He is now 68 years old and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t give a crap that his life insurance no longer exists. So how much does he have at age 80? $3.2 million. So at 8% he DOES have $3 million instead of COULD have (which is a lie). If he does 1% better and averages 9%, he has $4.7 million at age 80.

I don’t know how you can look yourself in the mirror every monrning doing what you do to people.

By the way, here’s the link.
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20071001/passing-it-on.html

Richard,

It pretty obvious nobody has taught you the great benefits of whole life, especially from New York Life and Northwest Mutual. The outstanding part about these policies from both of these companies is that they are mutual companies. meaning that they are private companies. Meaning that when you own a whole life insurance policy from both of them you are given dividends from the profits of the company when thay are declared. The policy owners are the owners of the company. These polices will never MEC because when you are paid dividends from the profits of the company you use it to buy more whole life insurance. So as your covergae grows your cash value grows. Also, there comes a time somewhere about 13 or 14th year of the policy that the policy starts paying for itself. The yield has grown so much that it can sustain itself without additional premiums. The beauty about these policies is when you start withdrawing money out for retirement along with your ROTH IRA mutual funds you have no income tax to declare, they are both tax free withdrawls. Now, would you rather have 3 million tax free to pull out or 3.2 million to pull out TAXED. Richard you need to open your mind and accept the fact that there are other programs that do a better job in certain situation. Some times term and invest the diffrence works, I’ve sold that., but sometimes it does not. Why do you thing I am indepedent, only me and the client together decide what is best for the client, not New York Life, not AIG not Priamerica! Only the client and myself.

Jose,

Please tell me you are smarter than you are sounding right now? You would be fined and have your license revoked for some of what you just wrote.

1st, the dividends paid by a participating mutual insurance company is a return of OVER PAID premium, NOT a sharing of profits. I used to have a policy through one.

A Sharing of profits requires it to be a stock company.

2nd, the reason the policy no longer need premiums after a specified period of time is because the policies are designed to be that way. At such a time, the cash value has grown to cover the cost of the insurance. The person is still paying for the insurance, just not out of pocket anymore. The catch is if the cash value reaches 0, then the policy owner is responsible for the premiums. However, that is only ever in issue with Universal, Variable, and Variable Universal policies.

3rd, unless the policy is designed with an increasing benefit rider, the cash value will not exceed the face amount. In universal, variable, and variable universal, the face amount changes based on the value of the underlying investments of the cash value account.

4th, Money in a Roth is pulled out tax free because of tax law, any money pulled from a cash value policy is taxed based on if the money was already taxed or not. In other words, if the amount you have taken out exceeds what you have put in, you are taxed on the overage. This usually does not happen because it is rare to ever have enough cash value in the policy equal to the amount you have paid.

TFB, Have I missed anything?

Richard,

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!! You know nothing of the sort. I am so sorry you are so intrenched in your thoughts. What a pitty!! Do yourself a favor and go to newyorklife,com and see it for yourself.

Jose,

I have been wrong before, but have a look at the following links.

1) http://www.lifeinsurancehub.net/life-insurance-dividends.html

“Whenever the performance of the life insurance company is better than anticipated, assumed or projected the policy owner participates in this good performance. Payment of a life insurance dividend indicates that the life insurance company’s operating expenses, risk selection and management experience has been better than expectations.”

In other words the company did better than expected and over charged for the policy and returned the overage.

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_life_insurance

“These policies would typically cost more up front, since the insurance company needs to build up sufficient cash value within the policy during the payment years to fund the policy for the remainder of the insured’s life.”

Limited Pay policies are required to have higher premiums so that the cash value builds up enough to cover the cost of the policy.

3) http://www.360financialliteracy.org/Life+Stages/Parenthood/Articles/Life+Insurance/Types+of+life+insurance+policies.htm

“Traditional whole life insurance–guaranteed premiums … However, the cash value can potentially grow beyond its guaranteed amount through the payment of dividends.”
— In this case, dividends are use to purchase additional paid up policies to increase the death benefit.

“Variable life–you make the investment decisions … “If the cash value account exceeds a certain amount, the death benefit will increase.”

“Variable universal life–the ultimate in flexibility … As with both variable and universal life insurance, your policy may lapse if the cash value account falls below a certain level. … However, keep in mind that your policy’s face amount is reduced by the amount of a policy withdrawal”

“Universal life–openness and flexibility … Reducing or increasing premiums will impact the growth of the cash value component and possibly the death benefit.”

4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_insurance

“Cash value increases within the policy are not subject to income taxes unless certain events occur. For this reason, insurance policies can be a legal and legitimate tax shelter wherein savings can increase without taxation until the owner withdraws the money from the policy.”

In other words, you can withdrawal the money you were already taxed on, tax free. Any new money will be taxed.

Roth IRAs on the other hand, allow for tax FREE withdrawals.

A properly trained life insurance and securities licensed agent would know this.

You say I am wrong, provide links and documents from third party sources (not from insurance companies). Everything I have stated is in your policy and in the tax code.

If this is the kind of advice you give your clients, I hope your E&O insurance is paid up and in good order.

Richard, Eric, Jose,

I just came back from a 3 days congress (I was still posting everyday – thx to scheduled post feature!- but didn’t have time to access my blog) and this is why I didn’t comment yet on your debate;-)

While I am not an insurance expert (Financial Planner get basic training on insurance (45 hours on it) and i don’t have any insurance license, I have a few things to point out.

#1 Cash Surrender Value is definitely used to pay off the insurance premium at one point. Depending on how your CSV is invested, you may or may not have to pay for your premium anymore. However, in any case, your CSV will grow as a much lower rate when you stop using your own money to pay the premium (since CSV growth and maybe capital will be used to pay that premium).

#2 Jose, I am not quite sure I get how your 3M$ whole life policy is built (or maybe it’s just that I am to burnt from my 3 days party… I mean congress hehehe). Can you write more about it?

#3 From what I have read, participating insurance policy receive dividend from the insurance company. If the company is not making money, they would obviously not give a high dividend (they might cut it completely, right?). It is a sort of profit sharing, isn’t?

#4 The bigger advantage of the tax sheltering side of a whole life is that when you die, all this money is free of taxes and had increased tax sheltered during all those years. It can be a really good way to increase your investment and save taxes.

I don’t mind if you continue this debate on this blog, but please be respectful… I would hate to edit your comments

Cheers,

FB.

Profit sharing requires being a direct part of the business (employee or stock holder). A customer does not get that. The dividends are only paid if the company did well, meaning less payouts or better management resulting in less fees needing to be charge. Since they beat their budget, they return some of that money back to the customers in the form of either paid up policies or a check.

Tax sheltering is one thing, tax free withdrawals (which Jose was in reference to) is something completely different. And in the case of a death benefit, unless it is designed into the policy, or paid extra for, the beneficiaries only get the death benefit OR the cash, but not both.

Jose, maybe you could explain to all the people who are witnessing our debate just exactly how you make a tax free withdrawal from a cash value policy. Better yet, I’ll do it for you. Let’s suppose you have a VUL you bought when you were young and you are now retiring and planning on using this “tax free” withdrawal program that is always touted by the trash value industry. Let’s suppose you have 1 million in your cash value and you are 67 years old. There are only 2 ways to access the cash in a cash value policy. Either you cancel your policy and you take all your money out, which is a taxable event IF your cash value exceeds the premiums paid for all those years. If your cash value does not exceed all of your premiums paid, there is no tax because the IRS says you lost money. Now if the IRS says I lost money, then I lost money. I don’t care what you or any other trash value agent has to say about that. The IRS isn’t stupid. But let’s suppose my 1 million cash value is more than the premiums paid. Therefore, canceling my policy and taking everything out creates taxable event. So to avoid that, I keep my policy in force and begin taking monthly withdrawals. How do I do this? By taking a policy loan. Since it is “borrowed” money, I don’t pay tax. Have I said anything incorrect so far? Don’t think so. Here’s the rub. I have to pay you around 6% interest on all monies I take out, oops, borrow out. And I have to pay that 6% in advance. Even the mafia doesn’t charge me interest in advance! So let’s say I take $60,000 a year out. That’s a $5,000 a month “loan”. That’s means I’m paying you $300 a month in interest and I get $4,700. So I took out, oops, borrowed $60,000 and only got $56,400. 1 year goes by and it’s now the 13th month I’m taking, oops, borrowing money out. Now I’m paying $600 a month in interest (which is 12% of my monthly withdrawal) because I owe you $300 on the $5,000 I took out last year and $300 on the $5,000 it took out this month. So now I’m only getting $4,400 a month. Guess what happens in month 25? That’s right, $900 a month in interest (which is 18% of my monthly withdrawal). In month 37, $1,200 a month in interest (24% of my monthly withdrawal). Every year my interest goes up $300 a month. As you can see, the longer you do this, the worse it gets. And I’m being generous because I’m not even calculating the compounding effect. How exactly is this better than paying taxes? How does this possibly trump a 401(k) or an IRA? It doesn’t. Unless you’re really, really, really stupid!

P.S. Richard is right about dividends. Why are life insurance dividends not taxable? Because they are not income. They are a refund of overpayment of premium. If a dividend was generated from the profits of the company, then you bet the IRS would be all over that. If I own stock in General Electric and I get a dividend, that dividend is taxable. If I own a trash value policy from New York Life and I get a dividend, it’s not taxable because the IRS knows dang good and well I’m just being refunded how much I was overcharged. Life insurance dividends have NOTHING to do with the profits of a company.

And to you Financial Blogger, that sound like a party I should have been at. Daaaaaang!

Jose, I forgot one thing. I have been taught the great benefits of a New York Life or Northwestern Mutual whole life policy. You benefit tremendously from the HUGE commissions generated from the sale of these pieces of garbage. Why don’t you disclose how much you would make on a 1 million whole life policy with a monthly premium of say, $800 a month? Here’s how much I make on a 1 million 30 year term with a monthly premium of $150. I make $1,600 as a Primerica RVP. How much is your “benefit”? Why don’t you come clean and expose the real reason you sell this stuff? My guess is you make north of $10,000 on a policy like that. Am I wrong?

Eric,

Some cash value policies do allow for withdrawal of funds instead of a loan. It is not talked about much though.

On top of that, one is not required to pay back a policy loan, it is just optional if one wants to receive the full death benefit. Someone can elect to take out a policy loan and never pay it back.

Here are the tax advantages of cash value life insurance.
You pay NO current income tax on interest or other earnings credited to cash value. As the cash value accumulates, it is not subject to current taxation.
You pay NO income tax if you borrow cash value from the policy through loans. Which means loans are treated as debts, not taxable distributions. This can give you virtually unlimited access to cash value on a tax-advantaged basis. Also, these loans need not be repaid. After a sizable amount of cash value has built up, it can be borrowed against systematically to help supplement retirement income and in many cases, never pay one cent of income tax on the gain.
Your heirs pay NO income tax on proceeds. Your beneficiaries receive death benefits completely free of income taxation. Therefore, a $500,000 policy delivers $500,000 in benefits with no deductions and no withholding required.
You can avoid potential estate taxes and probate costs on policy proceeds, as long as the beneficiary designations and policy ownership are arranged in accordance with current law.

Enough said. You live your life and I will live mine. Last transmittal. On vacation till January 5th. Give thanks to God for all that you have. Merry Christmas Everyone.

In most cases, there is no income tax on the growth while the money is in the policy.

Tax free loans are tax free, BECAUSE THEY ARE LOANS. They are not withdrawals. There is a distinction.

You are right that you do not need to pay them back, however, any unpaid loans will come out of the death benefit plus unpaid interest.

So a $500k CV policy with no loans, will pay $500k to the beneficiaries tax free. If paid to the estate, tax problems could occur.

A $500k CV with a $300k loan will pay less than $200k to the beneficiaries.

All of this is in your policy. Since you don’t believe me, take a look yourself. I believe it is called a “wash loan provision.”

(begin sarcasm)
But then again, I’m just a part time agent so what would I know right? You are the full time professional after all, right?
(end sarcasm)

Sorry Jose, but not enough said. You didn’t list one tax advantage that is not already available in a 401(k) or an IRA. You’re trying to make it sound as if trash value life insurance is the only tax advantaged vehicle our wonderful government allows us to have. You also didn’t explain how paying interest that compounds is better than paying taxes. And, you didn’t tell us how much you make on a big fat trash value policy. I wonder why you danced around that one?

What’s your fascination with getting a death benefit? If it were free, then hallalujah! Come on Jose, you know better than that. Have you ever looked at the cost of insurance table in a UL or VUL policy? You make it sound as if your $500,000 death benefit is free or something. Well it aint! It gets friggin dang expensive the older you get. Just like the IRS, insurance companies are not stupid. Do you really think that you are going to get more of a benefit from sending them your hard earned dollars every month than what they are going to get from it? No way. Never. Not in this world. Even with term insurance, the company will always win. Life insurance is a very expensive fact of life. It’s bad enough to have to pay for even a term policy when the odds say you will never see the benefit. Life insurance is the most expensive financial product that one can own. Why would you keep paying for it one second longer than you need it? The older you get, the more it costs. Just look at the cost of insurance table in a UL. Look at it this way:

Life Insurance:
Die young, your heirs win. Live long, you lose.

Annuities:
Die young, your heirs lose, Live long, you win.

That is why Primerica believes so strongly in the theory of decreasing responsibility. You can bet that when my house if paid off and I have enough money saved up and my kids are out of the house, my life insurance is going bye bye. Yours should too. And don’t give me your argument about estate taxes. 99% of Americans won’t have an estate large enough to worry about. One reason may be because they got ripped off by plowing huge amounts of money their entire life into the garbage you sell. Hmmmmmmm.

Merry Christmas to you too. I hope your clients have enough money to have one!

I am a newly minted Primerica Agent. I just finished the book “COACH” and from what I have read in this book and what I have discovered from my own limited research in the Insurance industry, is that the whole life scam was and is a major money maker for legal crooks called Life Insurance agents. I have personally read some whole life and VUL variations that have the theft hidden in the tiny, tiny words that fill the pages of a very sweet commission for the agent.

So far, I have not witnessed nor heard about any Primerica product that is not a straight forward and honest product for the client. I have never been asked or pressured to do anything unethical.

What I have also noticed is the absolutely venomous hatred by the rest of the insurance industry for Primerica. The anti-Primerica blog debates are populated with people like Jose, people who either chose to dissemble for profit or truly do not know what they are doing.

I am brand new at this and have much to learn, but I know that A.L. Williams started something that has the entire insurance industry howling with fear and rage. They have been howling for 30+ years and I expect they will continue to howl forever. Unprincipled greed will do that to you.

My parents used to make jokes about politicians, used car salesmen and life insurance agents. Now I know why.

Ciao

Financial Blogger,

I must tell you, I was in Primerica and was given the promotion of Division by my RVP and didn’t even earn it the way the company guidelines say, but because I was the only one left on his team he gave it to me.

Most Primerica agents (not newbies who quit after 2 weeks) but people who go in, get a license or three, and stay in for a while, including the high-level folks like RVP’s and SNSD’s are kool-aid servers and kool-aid drinkers.

They have not been exposed to much outside of Primerica, so they’ll go around telling people that Primerica’s the only company out there that pays death benefits for terrorist attacks, or that Primerica’s the only company out there that has a terminal illness benefit, or that only Primerica offers 35 year term. All the other companies that sell term only go up to 30. I’ve found other compnies out there with 35 year term and with term to age 90, even.

They still hold the mantra of Whole vs. Term. The fact is nobody (unless their parents bought it for them as a child) has whole life anymore. It’s no longer whole vs term. Now it’s Term vs Universal, depending on the clients’ needs.

Primerica doesn’t offer Return of Premium either. They say it’s just a gimmick. My RVP told me it’s far more expensive. When I shopped for it though, not true. I’m paying the same for a return of premium with the same coverage.

Primerica doesn’t offer any investments besides mutual funds and the prime elite annuity from MetLife.

CD’s and bonds are better than bond mutual funds. That’s why I sold my crappy corporate bond funds and put the money in an IRA CD at my credit union.

Exchange trade funds and index funds are just as good or better than many mutuals, but Primerica is so backward stuck in mutual-fund only mindset.

How can Oppenheimer Capital Income or Van Kampen Equity and Income which both have life averages of about 10% compete with CitiGroup Preferred stock paying 12%??

Primerica is a good place to start if you want to work in finance, but don’t stay there past getting your securities license. Get your life and securities and then get the hell outta there. And don’t let some cult-leader RVP scare you into staying.

Leave a resignation letter in the office late at night and then change your number if you have to.

Chris,

You speak badly of Primerica but miss a few points yourself.

Although Primerica is not the only company without a War clause, by my research, Primerica was the only one that paid ALL legitimate death claims first 2 weeks after 9/11. Many people had to wait up to 5 years and a federal class action lawsuit before they got their money.

It’s now Whole vs Term, it’s Cash Value vs Term. People still have Whole life and all the other variants out there, and are still sold it today. Just because you haven’t come across it, doesn’t mean it does not exist or happen.

RoP is a Cash Value product. It is a gimmick. Run the numbers and the client has lost money. It is more expensive than straight term. Depending on the amount of coverage, it could be a couple bucks or hundreds. It may be cheaper than a Primerica policy, but compare it to another policy’s from the same company and it will be more expensive.

The only investment Primerica offiers is mutual funds. The VA is a vehicle like the IRA’s, SEPs, 401k’s, etc. You say CD’s and Bonds are better than a bond mutual fund? Well, are you aware that if you need the money from a CD or Bond you may face an early withdrawal penalty? One that you will typically not find in the said MF? Are you also aware that long term you will probably get a higher average return on the MF than on the individual bonds and CDs? Are you also aware that the IRA CD you have will earn LESS than putting it into appropriate mutual funds?

What was the purpose of the Corporate Bond fund anyways? Emergency money or sake of it or retirement?

ETF’s are essentially a close ended mutual fund, with the notable exception that they can be traded throughout the day. And until recently, only tracked index’s. One investment is not better than another. It is all dependent on the situation for the client. The problem with index type funds is they match and operate like an index. Unless a stock gets delisted they don’t take it out. And actively managed fund will sell that company while the stock is still worth selling and buy another company.

Would you rather have 10% earnings from 100’s of company’s or 12% from a company that is in dire straights and will probably be broken up (making your 12% turn into 0)? The point of those funds is to provide some protection from such fluctuations. If you invest solely into one stock, you take the risk that the company will remain profitable and stay open. You invest in a fund, you will pay more for it, but don’t have as much risk. In a fund, ALL the companies would have to go bankrupt on the same day, at the same time.

Just because you had a bad experience, does not a bad company make. I have been told many a times by agents from other companies that I am too smart for Primerica. I probably am, but of all the other companies I have looked at, HBW, Edward Jones, New York Life to name a few, Primerica is the only one that lets me work without a quota, allows me to be more than just a sales man, and has the people that have the same views on helping people. And by last quarter filings, was also the ONLY insurance company making a profit.

If Primerica is as bad as you say it is, why is it doing better than the rest (per public documents)?

Your posts are full of personal biases and opinions which are not backed up by facts but by more biases and opinions.

You have openly admitted that:

“However, I have to admit that I never took the time to look at all their products”

I think you should write down a list of questions about the company and the products and sit down with an RVP in your area and have a serious discussion before you can go and give other people advice.

Primerica is a transparent company that is honest and open about all of its products and services. If that’s the case then how can it be hiding something?

If Primerica is a “pyramid” (which are illegal) why would they be owned by such a monstrous company such as Citi?

I have yet to see any “facts” that show that Primerica doesn’t do what is right for the consumer 100% of the time. Yes, not every person in the company is perfect, and not every office is always run to the same standards; but the business as well as the business system is build in such a way that it is a WIN WIN WIN for the company, client, as well as the agents. So how can anyone lose?

CC,

There is not a single company around that is NOT a pyramid. Just look at the structure of the companies and you will see.

And people can lose in Primerica the same way they can lose anywhere else, quit.

CC,
Did I ever say that Primerica was evil and not trying to help people out? I’m just saying that the commission structure is made to encourage recruiting and not selling. However, at one point, someone will have to sell if they want to make money. And when you sell, you earn less commission than with any other structure.

I don’t care if Primerica is selling good or bad products, I’m questioning their business model, not their product. Humans are humans, there a really good rep at Primerica helping people and there are crooks like in any other business. Primerica is not different from any of them.

Financial Blogger, FYI, PFS does not have the lowest comp level out there. I have talked with my Farmers agent. (yes, I have my home owners and auto insurance through farmers) He has been a Farmers agent for almost 40 years so he is on an old contract which means he does not have to sell any life insurance at all if he doesn’t want to. The reason he doesn’t want to sell life insurance? Because at Farmers you make next to nothing for selling it. A PFS District Leader makes far more at 50% than a 40 year Farmers veteran makes selling exactly the same thing. If Farmers would make him sign a new contract, he would just retire and hang it up. Why? Because he would then be subjected to life insurance quotas each month. Quotas that he would make no money on. Hey, let’s all go work for Farmers! NOT.

[...] Here are the reasons I was attracted to Primerica: [...]

What is better apples or oranges? It depens on your taste buds. There are plusses and minuses depening on the person. Based on my research term and invest the difference is the way to go. As far as recruiting, know the difference between a business owner and a self employed person…. Robery Kyosaki (read). Can you make more commissions at other companies? of course Can you make less commissions at other companies? of course. There should be a mix of making money and enjoying what you do which is largely based on the culture of the company. I worked for insurance companies, brokerage firms and Primerica. The culture at Primerica was to help people and the money will take care of itself. If you are a business owner recruiting is essential to success, but recruiting isn’t exclusive of producing as some would have you beleive. There can be a balance. There are good people in all of the mentioned organization and bad people as well. It deoesn’t mean the organization as a whole is bad. If a company is not your cup of tea don’t work there but name calling and bashing is unnecessary and mean. You can say you aren’t trying to bash and then bash, This says a lot about your character. Some say they are just being informative to help warn people but to really inform people about an organization you should be well informed about the company and not repeat jargon you acquired from someone else. If someone makes a statement to you is it fact or their opinion. Please be self informed and don’t make it personal.

It is hard for agents from a captive company without prior financial services experience and being conditioned in-house every week to have an objective or well informed opinion. Not their fault but never the less they think they know until the truth is shared and becomes evident.
That company does underwrite expensive term and they do underwrite permanent plans as well.

All clients must have the legal ability to convert term policies for estate preservation issues or continuation issues. So although they don’t tell their agents, the fact is they do underwrite and issue permanent plans. The agents are not told the company contacts the clients directly for conversions upon clients reaching renewal periods. The letters for continuation options clearly show conversion to permanent being available from the company that says ALL permanent products are bad.

All insurers must have on file a sample policy of all products sold in a given state with their Insurance Dept. You can find it there but most of these guys don’t want to hear truth, they want to think their one company is the best without having any objective information as a reference. They take every bit of real info as negative or bashing if they don’t like it. The truth is they are conditioned to behave that way.

This is not about apples and oranges. If you sell an overpriced 30 year term with non-guaranteed premiums over 20 years no amount of orange juice can rationalize why that would be better than a lower cost policy from another comparable carrier that is fully guaranteed level for 30 to 35 years and has better features.
I say 35 for two reasons:1- they are not the only ones with 35 year term and 2- when you have expensive premiums other carriers can give better benefits for the same premium

Any person who claims to know anything about insurance yet operates with already dictated terms is not objective. For instance let’s say that a certain company thinks that buy term and invest the difference is the way to go.
You must realize that a client will never get customized solutions there because the idea that a 30 year old should have the same program as a 68 year old is wrong.
They don’t understand that there are things that may affect some clients like estate taxes in which life insurance is very important and term may not be the best tool then.

The compensation in that certain captive company is very low. Only their agents think it is ok. One is up there comparing it to another company from last century.
Well here is the problem. He may have a 50% now (relatively low contract) but he started at 25% which is abusively low. In order to go to 50% he had to give up some ‘training sales’ to someone and recruit a certain amount of individuals within 30 day cycles. Nice deal???
Ok then to add insult to injury life commissions are capped at $1500 no matter the size of a policy (I am not talking about an advance cap either). I am saying if you sell a 7 million face value term policy the comp is no higher than $1500.
Then at some point you have to give up a leg to get their VP contract and that is another loss of income that cannot be justified in my opinion. Even if you have 20 legs… 21 is always better.
No, I don’t work with quotas either so enough of that angle. Another way that your compensation is hurt is the contractual fact that if some company does not allow you to sell products you are licensed to sell, then you are in fact taking a pay cut.
If you don’t understand what I mean then ask anyone from such companies to sell you Disability, Impaired Risk guaranteed issue life, health insurance or Fixed Annuities among many other things they are not allowed to sell…
They cannot and as such cannot get paid even if properly licensed. Why? because a certain contract they signed says so… If you call that a good compensation plan then I would love to sell you a certain bridge nearby.
That does not include the fact that in most cases they have a distance limitation on recruits which if you go beyond it forces the recruiter to ‘network’ the recruit losing all overwrites in products other than life insurance. Then the life commissions would also be ‘networked’ or split in favor of the other office. For example: 75/25 (25% going to the original recruiter). Hmmm not so great in my opinion…

Financial products are not inherently good or bad, they are tools and they must be used properly for a given situation. If any company tells you that one way is the way to go then there is no objectivity there.
I question WL only agents just as much as TERM only agents because neither of them are right.

I know many of you guys in those “one size fits all” systems are not going to get it but we can talk about it here.

I have been around and I don’t mind a good debate. I am not a WL agent and I am not here to bash anyone. Just speaking verifiable truth which any of you can look up independently.
I think in many cases BTID is a good strategy but if we are here to do the right thing and place our clients in a better position… Shouldn’t the term policy we use to replace the improper WL case be a good term policy too?

There is such a thing as a poor term policy. How do you know your term is good or not so good if you have never worked with another one?
Do you believe only what your VP tells you? Doesn’t that person have an interest on you selling for them?
Also, if this person is contractually limited to one product… How can this person be objective about their insurance product?
I mean… They either like it and sell it or they die of hunger right?

So I think the crusade should include making sure the term policy used, when and if needed… Should be the best term WE can find and not a term policy I have to sell because I am not allowed to sell any other.

If what I say is true then you will either learn something valuable and make a change in your practice or you learn what you have to deal with out there.

Thanks.
RRodriguez

1) Conversion to Permanent Plan. – NOT A REQUIREMENT BY LAW. At least not in the US. No mention in the licensing books, no mention on the exam, no mention anywhere except in your head. If I am wrong, please post a link to a credible source and I will publicly apologize.

2) Guarantee – I can take a crap in a box and slap a guarantee on it. It’s still crap. And I will ask this question again, if the company is financially strong with NO history of raising rates beyond scheduled rates, does it matter the length of the guarantee? I use Apple products. They have done over $2k worth of work on my laptop with it being OUT OF WARRANTY. Guarantee’s are only there to make people feel better, if the company is sound, it’s meaningless.

3) BTID for 68 – Off course it wont work. It’s too late in the process. Doesn’t mean there is nothing left to do.

4) Distance Limitation – Non Existent. An agent can CHOOSE to network so they don’t have to travel distances to train or they can pay the extra expenses to work with the agent.

5) $1500 Cap on credit – Made to level the playing field across the board. Some places have historically high life insurance policies while others do not. That cap gives everyone a shot to compete for what ever the company has going on.

6) WL vs Term only agents – It’s all TERM anyways, some are just way overpriced with a poor savings plan attached.

7) “One size fits all companies.” – I’ve yet to meet an agent from one and I’ve talked with folks from New York life, State Farm, Edward Jones, etc. Would you mind introducing one?
Know if the policy is good? – Read it. That will tell you what you need to know.

9) Doesn’t your companies have an interest in you selling for them? Are you going to believe what they tell you? There is always someone higher up telling you stuff. It doesn’t matter which company you are in or who you work for.

10) Limited to 1 product? Not objective? – Two sides. A) You can either only be objective of the policies you personally sell. B) You can be objective regardless of number of policies. Either way, the number of companies you represent is irregardless of how objective one can be. If someone doesn’t like the product, they are welcome to leave and go elsewhere. Same if you sell from multiple companies.

All that I have learned today is that you are still the same man that goes around the net finding posts about Primerica and keeps bashing, although politely to an extent, and twisting basic concepts which you don’t get or want others to get.

I was not “raised” in Primerica. I learned 90% of what I know outside of it and researched that last 10% that they said. I have found the RVPs and agents I work around to be 100% correct. They have never lied to me, they have never said anything that was not factually correct. These guys have all come from a varied background and will run circles around you till your head spins off.

For those that are reading this, don’t believe anything you read online. Even take stuff from credible news sources with a grain of salt. Write down questions and go talk with an experienced agent DIRECTLY face to face. If they can’t answer them the way you want, find someone else. Sit through meetings. One wont cut it, sit through several.

Learn how the products work before joining any company. They are not that complex, well, term isn’t. Cash SURRENDER Value policies can get a bit confusing. Make your decisions after doing real due diligence.

Don’t let people like me or RRodriguez or anyone else online persuade you one way or another. Everything you read online is usually posted without fear of reprisal, and usually, a way to get ahold of them legally. Wouldn’t you say whatever you want if you didn’t have to worry about someone coming after you? Regardless of facts?

RRodriguez. Well said. I was dealing with Richard a couple of months ago and he is one of those tunneled visions individuals that defends his practice without opening his mind and invisioning the whole picture. Keep it up RRodriguez.

Jose,

You might want to get to know me outside of a forum before calling me Tunneled Vision.

I defend my practice because it is the right thing to do. I have opened my mind and continue to learn outside of the office. Everything I read, including from people like you, especially from people like you, is that I made the right decision.

When I have people from New York Life, HBW, CLG, Edward Jones, Ameriprise Financial, WFG, etc BEGGING me to join them, I know I am where I am suppose to be.

Every time I asked a question that is at the heart of what you guys preach, you back away from it. Every time I challenged a core belief, you guys never give a response. Every time I gave an option that was numerically sound and numerically better, you were afraid to admit it. Every time I tore a policy apart to explain how it worked for the public to know, I was accused of attacking whole life when I was merely telling everyone how it worked.

You sir, need to get your head out of your ass and stop thinking you have won or dealing with some “idiot Primerica agent.”

Richard, keep doing what you’re doing. The world needs more people like you. Inside and outside of Prinerica

In my huimble opinion Richard just believes in Primerica and what they stand for. One day he will see the light. I was worse than him.As for the guarantee period If isn’t an issue, why have one period? I’m sure many RVP’s are honest folks, but it still stands many don’t know what they don’t know.

You PFS people defend Primerica to the end, but it’s not it’s not Primerica as a company that’s at issue It’s the agent contract and the balance between what’s best for the independent contractor and the company. Think about it for a moment. the PFS posters love being paid less than what can be had in the industry.. having restrictions, signing over their business in exchange for discounted licensing fees, etc.. Its deep..Real deep.

Richard the reason people want you on their team is because of the committment you bring. It’s not about knowledge or anything like that. They feel if you can be that committed while inside Primerica you have the potential to be a major player on their team outside of PFS. There is no way to spin it. Side by side for a recruit or for business you can’t compete with an independent. That’s a fact..

As as to how a policy works many of us have a good knowledge in that area, because we have to stay current on different products that come to market. But then there’s also the point that BTID in a perfect world works, but where are all the financially independent people ALW/PFS has produced? How many thousands of people have gone through ALW/PFS? Forget the products. Just consider the agent agreement and consider which way the scale leans the most. as for the guarantee period, ask some of the long term agents if PFS has ever cut agents commissions or rolled agents back? If a company leaves themself an option they do that for a reason. If you can still see the value in a 30 year with 20 years guaranteed compared to a 30 year term with a 30 year guarantee and cost less, you need to put yourself in the consumers shoes. Then you need to consider your E/O, because if they get to the year 21 and there is a rate increase and they find out you knew about 30/30, it could get kind of hairy..Especially if you informed the client that the 30/30 wasn’t an issue..Somebodies got to pay…

I have a question for the PFS people. You speak to your clients about BTIV. Do you talk tot hem about their options at end of tram? Do you ever talk to your clients about the potential of a senior settlement? Do you ever go over the positives of being able to lock in a face amount and premium? Now we are talking about doping what’s right for the cleint, not what;s in the best interest of the company.

In my huimble opinion Richard just believes in Primerica and what they stand for. One day he will see the light. I was worse than him.As for the guarantee period If isn’t an issue, why have one period? I’m sure many RVP’s are honest folks, but it still stands many don’t know what they don’t know.

You PFS people defend Primerica to the end, but it’s not it’s not Primerica as a company that’s at issue It’s the agent contract and the balance between what’s best for the independent contractor and the company. Think about it for a moment. the PFS posters love being paid less than what can be had in the industry.. having restrictions, signing over their business in exchange for discounted licensing fees, etc.. Its deep..Real deep.

Richard the reason people want you on their team is because of the committment you bring. It’s not about knowledge or anything like that. They feel if you can be that committed while inside Primerica you have the potential to be a major player on their team outside of PFS. There is no way to spin it. Side by side for a recruit or for business you can’t compete with an independent. That’s a fact..

As as to how a policy works many of us have a good knowledge in that area, because we have to stay current on different products that come to market. But then there’s also the point that BTID in a perfect world works, but where are all the financially independent people ALW/PFS has produced? How many thousands of people have gone through ALW/PFS? Forget the products. Just consider the agent agreement and consider which way the scale leans the most. as for the guarantee period, ask some of the long term agents if PFS has ever cut agents commissions or rolled agents back? If a company leaves themself an option they do that for a reason. If you can still see the value in a 30 year with 20 years guaranteed compared to a 30 year term with a 30 year guarantee and cost less, you need to put yourself in the consumers shoes. Then you need to consider your E/O, because if they get to the year 21 and there is a rate increase and they find out you knew about 30/30, it could get kind of hairy..Especially if you informed the client that the 30/30 wasn’t an issue..Somebodies got to pay…

I have a question for the PFS people. You speak to your clients about BTIV. Do you talk tot hem about their options at end of term? Do you ever talk to your clients about the potential of a senior settlement? Do you ever go over the positives of being able to lock in a face amount and premium? Now we are talking about doping what’s right for the cleint, not what;s in the best interest of the company.

No, that’s not why. Richard, you know what I meant. The person behind the words, not the words themselves.

AT,

I hate to disappoint you, but they don’t want me for my commitment. They want me for my passion. My family has been screwed over countless times. Some times due to agents like yourself. Other times because no one came to them to help.

I am in Primerica to prevent what has happened to my family from happening to others. I have looked at other companies and evaluated them. Primerica is the ONLY one that will take someone with no money to invest, barely living paycheck to paycheck, and give them the chance to actually have a life.

You can say all you want about how bad it is to be a Primerica agent, but when you find someone like me, you will loose. I don’t care what the contract says, yes I read it. I’m not going anywhere.

I have seen family who were told they needed a cash value policy to ensure they had coverage, only for them to find out later they could have had 5 times the coverage for half the price and STILL have the comfort of knowing they would be taken care of.

Agents like yourself sold a woman a $25k whole life policy. She wanted something to ensure her kids would go to college. After 15 years, she would have paid $75k for it and only have $2k in cash to use. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

The industry average face amount is around $150 – $200k. Primerica’s is over $300k. Primerica paid out over $600m in death claims in 07 (still waiting on 08’s numbers). $400m MORE than they would have had. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

There are 10’s of thousands of people each month that receive an extra $1k – $2k/mo Part Time because of Primerica, and that is all they want. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

As for End Of Term, I do explain it. Other policies you have the option of re-qualifying medically to receive the same policy you have been paying on or convert to a cash value policy and either pay more per month or reduce your coverage. With Primerica, it AUTOMATICALLY exchanges for another 5 Year LEVEL term till age 70. At that point they can decide to use ART or DT. NO NEED TO PROOF INSURABILITY.

I also explain how they can get the same effect of a locked in premium and face amount and still give a LARGER death benefit to their heirs.

Krantz,

I do know what you mean. Thank you.

Answer this,

You won’t win with Richard, Priamerica implanted a chip in his brain and it can’t be removed, youre wasting your time, he is programmed to bash everyone else and praise his 1 direction idea fto the whole world.

Guys, we all have right to our opinion.

Give peace a chance

And that was mine.

Richard why get personal? You say agents like myself, where did that come from? I sell term, but I have access to many different companies. When in doubt revert to the cash value argument. I don’t think Primerica is the bad guy, I just think their contract is weighted toward the company and their products are served up with sweet and iced cold kool-aid. It’s business. It’s sales..

We can go back and forth all day about who would win in a confrontation, but I will have quite a bit more companies to choose from and you have one. As for recruits, I have no noncompete, don’t have to give up legs, ownership from day one and i can offer different commission schedules per experience.. No requirement to write all/any of my business with the marketing organization. If one IMO markets to seniors, I can sign with them and market their products. If I want to market heath products, I can go with an IMO or direct with a carrier if I so choose and still if I want, I can bring on other agents. You know you can’t compete with that…

Get this, I don’t have to get RVP approval..You see outside PFS an agent can design their business to be what they want. yes I know PFS has the system already, but consider the true cost. it’s not bashing, it’s information.

As for the death claims, how much more would have been paid out to the families if they had shopped different carriers? Could it be that some of those families may have been able to have more coverage for their premium dollar? You see you keep defending the company. My concern is with the client. Try not to take all this so personal, these companies will be here probably long after we are both gone.

If your contract sucks and your happy, be happy with a sucky contract. (Just said that to prime you up a bit) LOL..Really on the issue of end of term I was commenting on the ability to sell the contract on the open market and the different offers a person may get between PFS conversion options and a term that converts to a perm. product where they can lock in a face amount and premium for life,,

When speaking to a PFS agent, committment, passion, kool-aid…It’s all the same. You say your in Primeica to help those to not go through what your family went through. You imply an agent goes to people and sells them a policy that cost more with less face amount..Ahem,,Ahem,,Do you do a Term comparison for your clients? Do you suggest one company proposal? Ahem,,Ahem,,The premium values just might be different, but arn’t you doing the same thing by only offering PFS products? Ahem,,Ahem..

Forgive them potential client for they know not what they do…I used to be where you guys are..I’ve said the same things..Next time your at a function or a convention. (Opps, that was canceled) Just look around at the people and see the look in their eyes and wanting to get autographs..Then say Hey Kool-Aid..

LOL,,When I remember those days..Get the mind and the body will follow.

I hope no one is taking all this too personal..We do have to remember to separate the individual from from the business…

Jose,

The chip wasn’t implanted by Primerica, it was implanted for a test program to see if we could harness the unused portions of the brain for various projects. It’s alright until I get some radio interference, then I can’t get songs out of my head.

TFB,

I tried. They wouldn’t let it sit. But I am sure you already know that if you put a bunch of Insurance agents in a room together, things will run smoothly. Throw a Primerica agent in there just as experienced as them, it’s war.

Answer This,

Ownership is really a sad thing to compete on. In reality, the companies just pay us to maintain the clients. If you were to die tomorrow, and you don’t will your business to someone in your family that is licensed, the company takes it away and gives the clients to someone else WITHOUT paying your family. That is not ownership.

The same thing applies to Primerica businesses. If things are not setup correctly, the company redistributes it up.

If you have ever been in management, you’ll understand that giving up a leg is SOP. In retail, a new store manager gives up the people they helped train for “greenies.” At Primerica you give up 1 leg of 6. You still have 5 strong ones you helped build. After that, you RECEIVE them. It’s a cost of doing business. Salesmen hate to loose things because it would cut their pay. This is one of those Salesmen vs Businessmen things I mentioned before.

Commitment, compassion, and kool-aid are not all the same. Commitment is sticking to something with the emotion that started it has long since disappeared. Compassion is caring. Kool-aid is a kids drink. My daughter loves it.

Yes the convention was canceled, as well as 2 trips. Citi put some pressure and did not want the bad publicity. It didn’t matter that it just put a $55 MILLION dollar hole in Atlanta, GA’s budget. Or that the money spent on those trips would have HELPED the economy. Or that we took no part in the mess we are all in, except doing our part to protect people from it. Or that we actually had the cash to burn and WANTED to spend it. It was simply that AIG got bashed for spending $400k on a retreat and Primerica was going to spend multiples of millions on 2 trips and a convention.

Primerica policies don’t convert. They exchange. As for selling it, well, it never really does anybody any good. The only people that do benefit are the companies that buy them and the people that immediately get the money (through poor planning I might add). The beneficiaries usually get screwed.

For those death claims, I would have to say instead of the original $200 million, it probably would have been the same. Agents such as your self have had the opportunity to do what is right for over 100 years. Heck, wasn’t it 60 years ago all you had was term? You know this, when AL Williams came around, those companies you like so much could have wiped us off the face of the mat had THEY TAKEN CARE OF THE CLIENT to begin with. Instead, they do like today and keep trying to make it illegal or difficult for us to do business instead of competing. And if those companies products were/are so much better, why in the last 30 years have they gone from over 2000 companies to less than 70 and STILL shrinking?

As for ownership outside of PFS, My Legal plan side has no licensing requirements in most states and that is directly willable. My mortgage side currently has no licensing requirements and that is directly willable. My clients for my financial side are taken care of due to a family member having the required license(s) and there is a request to sell my block of business if that is the best case decision. Then of course there’s my personal financial assets. The point is from day one I can design my entrance and exit strategy.
It’s just a case of having a plan in place.

PFS has the PLPP, what happens to the clients and business if a PFS agents passes away? That’s not a licensed business, or what about your mortgage side? Now there you go again saying agents like myself. Do you forget I got my start at PFS? I still do BTID, but just with other companies. I’ve been to conventions. I’ve sat through the Monday morning meetings. I’ve seen a RVP get promoted when they didn’t reach the guidelines, but he and the office RVP were close. I’ve seen the impact of having a leg taken and seen the agents. business take a nose dive. Just becuase something is SOP in other businesses doesn’t make it right or advantageous for another business. As i said before if given the choice, i would rather keep the producers I hire and train.

You also say the companies I like so much. I’m not beholden to any one company. At one time Art Williams said the industry couldn’t market term on a large basis. Well that wasn’t true. As for how many companies are left, that’s not an issue because i have access to most of them if I need them. Not to mention it probably won’t happen, but PFS is on the ropes with a possibility of being shut down.

I fail to see what are the advantages for the individual business person to lay their hat with Primerica. An person can still be in the indistry and still sell term and a side account if they so choose. We all know not every PFS agent is securities licensed. A person can sell the same products with better compensation. (Everyone should do their own research) Not to mention have total freedom to expand or contract with whatever businesses they so choose. The way it sounds is the main factor is the Primeica Life policy. You pro PFS agents are willing to give up other opportunities due to a company that doesn’t even consider you as employees and slams down restrictions on you with products others can market on the outside. Just for a moment consider this. In 5 minutes PFS announces they will cease to do business. (This is just for thought) What are your options? Now think of this as a business situation… Remember WLG has recently change directions..I think they are called whoose or something like that.

If PFS did shut down who owns the business and the team you built or are building? At some point all the rah, rah, has to take a back seat to the business side. If the marketing organization shut down right now I would still have my clients and team. I could bring my team over to PFS and request a RVP position. I do know at one time RVP’s had that option..Richard no matter how you think about it the other companies only want you for production purposes. They know once you see the real industry and what other options you would have access to as an independent , you might take off and run..One day something will happen at PFS and you will see the light. How much information is getting to the field about the goings on behind the scenes? what happens with the company will have a material effect on the business of the agents. Yet i’m sure all you hear is don’t worry about it, times change so just build it anyway and don’t worry..Yea don’t worry when it effects your family.

It’s kind of ironic. A.L Williams tried to knock out Prudential and Met Life and the rest and look at the situation now. Art should have never sold the business..Well that’s if he had a choice..

The legal business and the mortgage (using your examples) themselves can not be willed. The CODE NUMBER that they pay can be. Same rules apply both in and outside of Primerica. Must be licensed to receive. Can also be directed to be sold. If no such things are in place, it is taken away.

If PFS closes down, I have other options and will move my team with me. I’ll update my clients only if there situation requires a change.

Little information is getting to the field, however, that does not mean I haven’t been hearing what has been going on. Primerica will either be sold or spun off. The interesting thing about the original agreement between Primerica and Consumer Credit was that Primerica has to agree to all changes that affect it for them to take affect.

In other words, if Citi wants to close Primerica and Primerica does not agree, Primerica stays open. If Citi wants to sell Primerica and Primerica does not like the terms, no sale.

Or to put it more simply, PRIMERICA IS GOING NO WHERE BUT UP!

Everything is pointing to a new IPO being done. You know what happened last time, it will happen again.

You mean the same Prudential that got hit with a $220 million dollar fine for deceptive and misleading sales practices and the MetLife that came begging to PFS to sell it’s products?

Bypass the middle man. Hey if Primerica does do an IPO, i’m in. I may not like the contact, but i’m no fool. as we can see many people drink the kool-aid. At one time I even heard Prudential owned A.L Williams stock. Primerica preaches not to bundle, but it’s ok with the products/business under one code number. So as PFS has to agree with everything, they i’m sure have the agents best interest at heart.

Richard we have gone back and forth but I really think your a good guy and also a cowboys fan. So let me just say don’t take anything I may say about PFS to heart against you the person or any agent. My true issue is the contract and new people not knowing anything about the industry and how Primerica in my opinion takes advantage of new people in the industry. As Primerica uses a mostly part-time sales force I do understand how they have to protect their business, but to throw in the idea of doing something noble for the middle class in my opinion is just plain manipulation. It’s all sales…Pure and simple…I don’t know about the Met Life coming and begging, but if PFS stood by their beliefs, they would have sent those cash value guys out the door. So you see at the end of the day it’s business…PFS made a business decison based on what’s in teir best interest which is what i stress to prospective or current agents. take the emotion out and do what’s in the agents best interest. Take it or leave it, the contract is what it is. In my opinion it’s massively weighted towards the company..

Richard,

How many times are you going to use that Prudential deceptive and misleading line? It allways seems like you have the same thing to say, over and over and over again.

And your line “PRIMERICA IS GOING NO WHERE BUT UP”… you forgot “..IN SMOKE.” to the end of it.

Being independent for the last 7 years has been outstanding. “Answer This” shares all the same points as I do, keep it up.

As for the meeting MetLife had, my understanding is they came to offer their products, our people sat them down, showed a video of snoopy being ran over by a panzer, then basically said “If you want to market through us, you must design this product this way.”

I hope I can find that clip, I’d love to see it.

Ok Jose, how about the one about Wealth Financial Group being under investigation for misleading sales practices and predatory lending facing possible multi million, if not billion, dollar fines?

Or AIG loosing over $26 BILLION last quarter? Or the one where we MADE over $150 million in pure profit last quarter?

I didn’t forget to add it. No matter how hard you wish, prey, or believe, Primerica is not going to die.

Last I checked, Primerica is the only company to be 100% debt free, have 8 times the required amounts for reserves, has this years budget already paid, AND STILL HAS CASH IN THE BANK.

I started out as a Primerica agent and I ended up building very successful practice with another company. In my opinion, Primerica is a “churn and burn” operation where they constantly bring in sales reps that leave after 2 or 3 months. They provide no marketing support and they rely on marketing their products to the new sales reps’ network of friends and family. When the new sales rep runs out of leads, he or she will quit the business and the manager will get all the renewal commissions.

I eventually came to the realization that it was unethical to replace permanent insurance so I only went after people who had a need for term insurance. The problem with that is Primerica term insurance products were so over-priced that it made a lot more sense for the client to go with a cheaper and more reputable carrier like Canada Life.

The only reason why Primerica does what it does is because they sell a low value product with an overwhelmingly favourably claims experience at the highest price possible. “Greed is good” is the best way to describe the values of Primerica.

If you are considering a Primerica policy, by all means go ahead and apply for it. But before you get it issued, apply for insurance from a better carrier and then cancel your Primerica policy when the agent delivers it. That way, Primerica will incur all the underwriting costs. You can still buy term and invest the difference, but you’ll have more to invest.

1- Statutory or not that company does underwrite and issue WL as a directly marketed end of term option so don’t avoid the subject Richard.
2- Richard says guarantees mean nothing. Well clients prefer their contract with a written guarantee that premiums will not increase because they can demand the performance other places do not guarantee. Why not?
3- Too late for your only process but I can help a 68 year old with more options.
4- Recruits further than 50 miles from recruiting office must be networked as per company compliance quidelines.
5- Commission limited to $1500 (advance and all) to be fair to contest rules? Are you insane? So if I write a 7 mil policy I can’t get a max contest credit of $1500 and get my rigthfully earned commission? Also who keeps the rest as a fairness fee?
6- All policies are not the same.
7- One size fits all are companies that cannot offer diversified insurance strategies and must box the client into the insurance product or concept they are limited to issue. One size fits all means you cannot go outside your captive domain!
8- You missed 8
9- I represent my clients. I am not captive to any company and I would not work with any company that limits my ability to objectively shop the market for a good match with clients. I am what you may know as an independent no-fee adviser. Even in your company issued pre-licensing books you may find the concept of being a fiduciary. That we have an ethical obligation to procure the best products for our clients. The problem with you is that your agency probably does not let you compare, procure or issue non-company affiliated/approved carriers. I can study any policy or product and make the decision to present it to my client, no matter what non-captive company issues it. Then, if my client approves I can immediately appoint and issue with said carrier. Didn’t you know your license is meant for that?
10- You either represent a company or you represent your client. If you represent a company you are a sales rep for that company and as such you have no real freedom to really do the right thing from my perspective. You cannot shop the market objectively.

The problem is that you cannot see what you don’t want to see. If your company allowed you to sell more than one life product you would quickly determine which one has the better features for a client and issue it. The problem is you cannot do that there and you must justify your condition as a tolerable one. From my perspective you could never compete with someone as flexible as me and that is the difference. I have studied many products well and if they had any merit I would be the first to recommend them. For instance I thought that refi program was ok for some long term home owners but now that is not around well… Tough deal there. Thanks to my contract I am not affected by shutdowns see.

All I have learned is that you have a misplaced illogical emotional attachment to an opportunity that limits your practice in relation to others. That you perceive truth as some kind of attack which is not even personal because you don’t want to feel outdated and that your knowledge of financial services seems very limited.

@James

You had a bad experience. That is no reason to recommend people basically defraud a company. I never encourage anyone I know to go through what you are saying just to have the company spend money needlessly. THAT is unethical.

@RR

1. At one point Primerica did have a WL option. MANY years ago. Now, they don’t. It is all level term, ART, or DT. At least in the US. I can’t speak for Canada, but would imagine it is the same.

2. I didn’t say it meant nothing, just that it makes you sound like a car salesman (my apologize to the decent car salesmen). If the product is crap, no amount of guarantees will matter.

3. I can still help people up to age 70 for insurance. Every situation is different.

4. If that really is a requirement, why do people in my office have recruits over 200 miles away without a networking agreement? And home office approved it?

5. $1500 is the limit for contests, not commissions. Full commissions are still issued. And yes, that is meant to keep it fair. In NY, the average policy per person is what, $1.5? $2 million? Average policy in TX being about $300k? Someone in Texas would have to work about 6 times harder to get the same credit. The purpose of the contests is to allow for fair competition. Putting a cap on credit allows that.

6. I never said the policies were the same. The underling insurance it self is all Term though. I’m sure you know that and you educate all your clients to that effect right?

7. Primerica has never claimed to be a one size fits all company and never will be. I’m still waiting for you to introduce me to one. Can you even do that? I’ve still yet to find one. Being a captive agency does not automatically make a one size fits all company.

8. Seeing if you were paying attention.

9. I have always represented my clients from Day one. I do compare policies, I still haven’t found one I like better than what Primerica offers. I’m not saying that as an agent, but as a person.

10. Perspective is a funny thing. You change it, and you see things differently. Nothing is inherently good or bad, just different. Ones perspective says I can’t be competitive, the other says I can. In the end, it is up to the client to decide what they want.

So long as it is logical trust, I never see it as an attack. With you, your reputation precedes you, so I take it with a grain of salt since you are an agent from another company. As such, neither of our comments here should actually be taken into full consideration when someone is looking around since we are both bias towards our on organizations. Our comments should be used to create questions so the individual can better understand them.

Richard,

Haven’t you noticed that the majority of Priamerica agents that leave had a bad experience. I wonder why that is?

Jose,

It’s simple. I myself even left once related to a bad experience. It was the manager I had. I came back because I believed in the concepts and the products. After a 4 yr leave, I still did not find a better company or product. The management I have now is considerably better than before.

As other agents have said, at least the ones that took the time to actually talk with me in person, I’m too smart for Primerica. I probably understand the products better than 3/4 of my office. And most of it I learned else where.

Richard granted you do know more about the products than most PFS reps, but at some point it has to come down to the basics. If you had a mortgage would you rather go for a 30 year fixed rate or a rate that is fixed for 20 years and no guarantee of the rate for the remaining 10 years? If you paid money for a bicycle would you rather own the bicycle at day one or have ownership if you ride a certain amount per year? If you were opening a restaurant would you rather be able to offer your customers one item or have a full menu?

Your Primerica to the core. The thing is many agents are loyal to the company (Not the products or their clients) and they are independent contractors. As being independent contractors how loyal is the company to the agents? Many PFS agents have no clue of the opportunities they are missing out on. As an independent business person it’s great to be able to make a educated decision if adding a product line is within your business best interest, but to be restricted per company contract as a part-time independent contractor just doesn’t make sense..

Well Pierre, would you rather have a guarantee from a failing company or a company that is financially sound? Guarantee’s are only as good as the company backing it. Granted there are some protections in place in the insurance industry, but still, even those can fail if enough companies fail.

As for restriction, well, it’s all a matter of perspective. Agents such as your self perceive it to be bad since you can pick and choose what you offer and to whom. Being contracted to those contracts with the possibility each year of loosing them if the company does not agree with how much of their products you sell. It does happen. If they don’t like how much of which product they want you to sell, regardless of if they actually tell you, they will cut you off at your renewal.

I look at it as a way to focus on what the majority of people need. I work them out of the need for insurance and into a comfortable retirement. It is kind of funny that Primerica is the only insurance company I know of that is actually anti-insurance.

Then again, all insurance is a scam. it’s the only product people willingly pay for with the hopes of never using it. How backwards is that.

Well Richard, you obviously have never had any experience with estate planning. A joint-last-to-die 20 pay whole life policy is something that is meant to be paid out. It is not a replacement strategy as it is a wealth transfer strategy. You can’t use term in the same way. If you self insure dollar for dollar, you are losing 100 cent dollars.

The only reason why Primerica advocates buy term and invest the difference is because they have nothing better to sell.

Well James, you have obviously never met me so how can you state I have never had estate planning if you have never actually met me in person or asked me any questions related to it?

I could do that…. or….. Buy a term policy for that amount wishing to transfer and put the difference (there will be for a 20-pay) into a VA that offers 5% or market performance, which ever is greater (whole life policies traditionally earn 1 – 3% over the life of the policy), does NOT REQUIRE annuitization (VERY few annuities in general do this) and can grow to much greater than that whole life policy ever could dream of becoming.

Would you rather pass on a limited amount, or one that could continue to grow and be passed to generations?

Primerica advocates don’t do BTID because it’s the only thing we can do, we do it because it is still what is RIGHT for low to middle income families. It has been right for over 50 years. If you don’t believe me, ask Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman. Oh wait, you probably don’t care what respected 3rd party people think because they don’t agree with the way you work. Or is it because they speak out against the products you recommend?

Richard,

They have a WL option right now. My client has a letter from them aksing her to select the option by May 3rd of this year. You could have found this out yourself but I see you are not even trying. You could have called your own company and verified this but you didn’t.

When it comes to Term crap could be defined as: Having a unisex policy with poor conversion features limited to a straight WL, having high premiums due to simplified underwriting at table 1-2 assumptions, having a 40% advance with 6 month death certification as a terminal illness benefit. No written premium guarantees beyond 20 years and no DI or ROP available riders.
You are implying other products are crap when clearly you don’t know that there are far better term policies out there than the one you think is good just becaue it is the only you have.
Richard have you lost your ability to reason?
You are trying to justify that which is not justifiable and I am no car salesman stop the personal attacks. I am a professional at what I do.
If you want to learn something then slow down and listen without prejudice. Prove to yourself and everyone that what you say is true and don’t call people who may know a hell of a lot more than you derogatory names or metaphors.
The information here could change your life, yet you resist it just because someone filled your head with company propaganda.
Do you really think that Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey are the end all and be all of finance? Have they taught you how to preserve a client’s wealth? If so explain why the theory of decreasing responsibility works or doesn’t work.
Of course you actually think that theory works because you don’t know much about certain events that occur in the later years as well.
Maybe Orman’s business now is to sell products to gullible people without a real deep knowledge of financial planning.
Richard… What else do you have if not BTID? How do you help a client maintain their quality of life whether they live or die? A real question there…
I mean if you tell them to save money for retirement. How do you help them protect it against the government plan?
Why is it that you guys only throw outrageous statements up in the air but never talk substance? I never hear anything other than:
1- We are the best
2- Everyone else is wrong
3- All other agents are crooks
4- Our products are the best and the list goes on…

Could that be simply indoctrination at it’s best?
For instance. Why is it that you perceive me and others like me as negative?
Why am I the enemy? What if I am right and you have been lied to for years?
I like BTID just not with a relatively poor term policy and limited to mostly variable non-guaranteed investments.
Look your compensation is very low in relation to the industry and contest should have nothing to do with your compensation being limited. Let me give you a true and better explanation for the advance limit but know that it is my understanding that your company will limit the total commission to $1500 and that is bad with or without contests.
Now a company limits the advances because they are a liability to them if the agent leaves with charge backs but an agent should be paid 100% of his compensation beyond the advance in the form of as-earns. That has nothing to do with trips and I hope you see I gave you a better explanation than that which clearly someone told you. Besides, trips can be cancelled right?
How can you still be waiting to see a one size fits all?
What other life insurance strategies do you have or know there?
You only have ONE life product and that ONE must FIT ALL your transactions or there is no transaction or useful strategy for you or your client.
Being captive automatically restricts your objectivity because EVEN if you know of a better product outside your company approved list you cannot recommend it (selling away clause) or sell it (captive clause). So much for doing the right thing… The right thing for who? Must be for the company because there are better products outside and don’t tell me that you really think that no other carriers could have come up with a better term policy.
How can you say that you have compared policies and claim that you have not found one better? Everyone reading this knows that it is way too easy. Just go to any quoting site and read the features as well. Every company I can use is better in my opinion and the only way you could not have seen that is because you didn’t really look. If you doubt it then contact people like me so we can put that mistaken belief to rest forever.
Perspective… Well here is mine. My reputation is that of speaking the truth and I am open to be recruited if you truly have a better opportunity. If someone does not want you to talk to me it would be because they have an interest on you remaining in the dark.
A client decides based on information and I don’t think there is a client stupid enough to pay more money for a term policy that neither guarantees premium (if is sooo good), cost more than others with the same or better ratings and the policy does not allow you to use it for advanced financial planning strategies.
My perspective is that of really doing the best for my clients, my team and my family. That if Art Williams himself was here today he would want to do the best for all people. That some company lost its way and did not evolve to become what it could have.

In fact back to quality one would expect to pay more IF the policy has value. I am asking you. If they never said they are the cheapest… What makes it so good that you must pay so much?

My reputation Richard is that I will prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that both you and your clients HAVE A CHOICE someone does not want you to know of. That there is superior training out there as well and that I always made my client #1 rather than any company.
They want you to think I am the devil and that I steal ice cream from babies.
The truth is that I went further and deeper than you. The truth is I wanted to be wrong but clearly that did not happen but it was good and you have that chance now. The truth is I wanted to prove to the world what we did was good and to my surprise I was the one who learned and became better for it.

I should have clarified a bit. The older policies that were issued did have a WL conversion, and as such we honor it. To my knowledge, all policies since 90 have been exchangeable to level term.

No, I didn’t have to call home office for that that either, I already knew it and thought I explained it enough for an experienced agent to understand.

That is your definition of a crappy term policy, not mine nor my clients.

All the policies I have seen thus far have been far worse than what I put in place. Some have been crap even with your standards.

Quality of Life preservation can be achieved with LTC policies. Many know Genworth is the best out their for it and offers the most flexibility. Lucky for me I use them. Get it young while still cheap and no major medical problems.

I only perceive you as negative since you come across as negative. By all accounts, TFB is an “enemy agent,” but has earned my respect through conversations outside of a comments section.

I have had confrontations with agents at HBW. Depending on who you talk to, a better company. First agent was an ass to the core, the second earned my respect by keeping the conversation civil. Neither that agent or TFB ever flat came out and said the products are crap and can do better elsewhere.

And you misread something else. Production credit is capped, not commissions. Commissions get paid with a 75% up front, last bit as earned. Done as a protection to the agent incase of charge backs.

The one life product I offer can be customized to fit MANY situations, not all. I never said it is for all and neither did the company. So where are you getting the information that it must fit all situations?

I didn’t call you a car salesmen, I said you sounded like one. People perceive the word “guarantee” with the stigma of a “car salesmen.” And again I ask, if the company is financially sound and has never raised during the standard term regardless of ability, does it matter?

In the last 2 years, they have probably come up with a good comparison to ours. Probably an answer to a few of the additions we added. Most notably, the 35 year term. From what I have found, we were the first to offer it. AIG was the second.

Well, you may get your wish. Last I checked, Art’s coming back. Hmm, wonder what will happen then?

First, the price difference is not as much as you make it out to be. Most comparisons I have seen are usually within $5 to $10 of each other. I expect prices to be cheaper now that it has been almost 2 years since this policy has been out. I’m actually expecting a rate drop in the next 6 months. As for what makes it better, me. Im not their to sell anyone a policy. Im there to get them out of debt and make sure they hit the marks they want to hit. I give my clients the service they deserve.

I know I have a choice. I chose Primerica. Nothing else looked better after running all the numbers.

I don’t think you are the devil, just ill informed on how our current products worked. As for steeling ice cream from babies, well, only you spread that rumor.

Nothing else looked better. Noncompete. giving up legs. No renewals on LTC..Must become Life licensaed to continue to market nonlicensed products. Just a couple of examples..Yea ok, nothing better.

Noncompete – Doesn’t matter if I’m not going anywhere else.

Giving up legs – And? It’s a price. And again, insurance is the only industry I know of that complains of that. For every other industry I have worked with similar rules, they have to give up much more.

No Renewals – Are you doing this for the money or for the clients?

Must become Life licensed – Again, are you doing this for the money or the clients? If one is truly committed to helping people, one must become licensed. With much of it subsidized, does it matter?

Tomato, Tomato. Potato, Potato. You see it as a salesmen would, I see it as a businessman would.

If your opportunity is so much better, how many of the people you work with make over $100k? $1 million? How many of the people that trained you make over those numbers? Was it mostly personal production or team production?

If money isn’t an issue donate all of your commissions. Other agents who sell the same products with other organizations are paid renewals. I may post to you. but my post are also for people who may need some information to research. Primerica is not about helping people. they are about sales of certain products to a defined market.

There is a business side and a mission side. Primerica is about sales. I have you ever been trained on closing? What about getting referrals? As for the licensing issue, what about the people who don’t wish to get licensed or for those who just can’t pass the exams. Why not give them the option of just offering the PPLP or your mortgage or the Auto/Home referral program (where no licensing is required). They won’t do it, because the life blood is the life business. I won’t go into which opportunity is bettter, because for some people Primerica is where they should be, like yourself, and for others another place is a better place for them. As you know being in the financial industry $100K isn’t much of a bar. A point is a person can have the option of doing it with a team or by personal production. Not everyone is open to recruiting.

I still don’t see how you say i see things as a salesman. Due to Primerica I have come to look at this as a business, they sure do. There’s no way they would sign the contract they offer you.

By being paid renewals though, there is less motivation to go help more families, and yes, generate more sales.

There are agents out there that wish to live solely on renewals so they don’t have to work. For them, that is fine. But what happens when those clients go else where or die? The renewals dry up.

The business side of any and all business is about increasing its presence. You make it sound like it is all the Primerica is about. The mission side is where the businesses distinguish themselves. Primerica is focused on a specific market. That market happens to be about 95% of the population.

Although some agents prefer doing partial solutions, Primerica as a whole does not. The requirements are there to allow people to help more families with a better overall solution than where they were. Offering someone just PLPP, a better mortgage, or a A&H referral will only help the short term. Primerica is about long term. A patch doesn’t do much but hold back a storm.

And A&H does require licensing in some states, such as Texas.

I know $100k isn’t much of a bar, but to many of those reading this, it is something they never had. To them it is plenty of money. To those that know how money works, they know it is mere pennies. That still doesn’t answer the question though.

Just because you have the option, does not mean it is better. A salesmen hates to give up sales to others and does not like to recruit. A business knows it is part of the business and does so.

The reason I keep calling you a salesmen is because you keep giving the impression you would rather burn out doing personal production (it will happen) instead of recruiting a team to do the work for you.

Richard,

If the newer policies can only be renewed through the guaranteed renewal clause there are two problems I see with that.
One is that the policy then does not have a value beyond the term and is useless for estate planning so the older policies were relatively better. The second is that you probably like to highlight the guaranteed renewal clause without evidence of insurability (guarantees matter there).

Of course it is not your definition of a crappy policy but in my opinion and most other reasonably intelligent people if you can give me better features, better guarantees, same or better rating and lower price then that is better and would be hard to replace right?
Generally any average term policy will do to shut down an improper WL plan but I don’t stop there. I want to make sure that the term I issue is also the best. Quite honestly since 1998 there have been great term policies so there has been plenty of time for any company to build the best. Did they? Did you think the industry was not going to evolve?

Quality of life preservation via a LTC policy? I said weath preservation.

How can a LTC policy preserve income stream should a client be lets say confined to a wheel chair?
How can LTC prevent market losses in their retirement accounts?
Don’t you agree that training is also important?
That if you are going to handle financial products, you should know how they can and should work together?
Don’t you know that those millionaires you look up to all should have an estate preservation plan which includes permanent policies? They would be stupid not to have them yet you think they all practice what they preach to you?

LTC’s function is to handle cost of care but it does not replace income stream or protect the client’s retirement account from taking a nasty fall with the market.

I don’t come across as negative. I told you that I speak the truth, I have to. You see me as negative because I challenge your beliefs.
I tell you again of course it matters to guarantee because despite their allegations of never increasing premiums THEY CAN and THEY DO. That is what I was trying to tell you.

If the performance is so good then why not guarantee it anyway? But aside from that please read the product manual carefully. Specifically issue age/premium calculations.
Well let me tell you why… Because the term 35 is subject to 5 year ART increases depending on the AGE OF ISSUE is it not?
That is why is not guaranteed because unless you are younger it may not remain level.
Try to issue that 35 year product to a 45 year old and see how the premium table shown premium increases in the last 10 years or so. That is why it is not guaranteed.
The other 35 year policy out there does not increase if issued at age 45. A lot cheaper too. You see Richard you believe the propaganda but if you had read that policy you would not have placed forward this silly “guarantees mean nothing” and “take a crap on a box with a sticker” rebuttal. You would have known what to say. So how can I be ill informed when I am giving you answers?
Now are you honorable enough to check what I am saying and tell us your results?

I know what you are saying. Yes all advances are 75% and the 25% as earns. That is standard industry advance but I am asking you.
Lets say an agent got paid $10,000 in commission for a single life case?
A- Are you telling me they advance $7,500 then pay as earns the remaining $2,500?
B- Or is it they advance $1,500 and then pay $8,500 as earns?
C- Or is it just $1,500?

Which one?

Now, I am saying is that no one company can address all the financial needs for your client and as such no company should limit your training, your products or income.
What I am saying is that if given the chance, the freedom to choose why would you sell a product knowing there are better ones you can issue?
What I am saying is that it is not fair for any company to restrict you in both concept and practice.
What do you mean that they have come out with good comparisons. Richard, there is no comparison. Since 2004 nearly all term carriers have been priced much more favorably and that unisex thing is a killer.
Oh yes I read “coach” and he clearly expresses his regret for having sold his INDEPENDENT AGENCY to a corporation. He would not have stood for what goes on today but I doubt he’s in the list to buy that agency now.
You must realize that no one can tell you what to do with your house right? so when a company buys another they may have some plans that you could have never imagined.
I would never buy into an agency without guaranteed ownership. I told people that certain things were going to happen and they did. I don’t get much credit but I can tell you that I have experience in how the industry moves and that usually the staff of an establishment with uncertain future are the last to know what’s really coming.
One guy got real mad at me and he said his company was a core asset when I insisted it was not. Well now we all know he was wrong too. So do worry about non-compete because companies can be sold to places you may not like and shut down forcing you to go despite your wishes. I know ANSWER THIS is coming down hard and maybe that is not the best way but he does have a point there.

Well we are here to get people out of debt and retire financially independent too, not just to sell insurance but I submit to you that if I can save a client more money, that is more money I get to help them compound with the rule of 72.
Trust me it is more than $5 or $10 and I can prove it.

Anyway even if it was $10 I could not go to sleep knowing that I sold someone a policy which prevents them from applying $10 or $30 or even $50 extra a month to their debt elimination or their mutual fund. You see I really have to do the right thing without excuses.
You better than most should know the impact a small amount can have over time in either debt elimination or wealth accumulation. So every dollar counts.

Richard this isn’t just about me or you. from my perspective it’s about choice and having information to make a choice. I have a team. I have agents in a few states. I know when I was at PFS I had to sign an agreement with another RVP when I recruited in another state. I forgot what they called it but I remember I had to sign it. Then I recruited a relative in another state, guess what I was told when I left PFS..Stay away from my relative from a business perspective. As we both know the growth is in building a team, well that’s where the consideration of the noncompete, giving up legs and ownership come into play. as RR spelled out if PFS is shut down or sold or whatever that’s a material business consideration.

Just so you know Primerica is not focused on 95% of the population. What about Impaired risk? What about the population who are in or close to the distribution phase of life? RR has already gone over wealth preservation. As for the renewals please refer to the rule of 72. Not to mention the payment of trails. i hope you turn those down also.

When I mentioned the nonlicensed products I was speaking on a person doing the business as a stand alone. Using your logic there should be a 100% requirement that people get 6,63 licensed also. If agents can just refer the securities business to their RVP or recruiter, why shouldn’t people have the choice to just market nonlicensed products? You see Primerica is a business and everything they do is from a business standpoint. .The life blood is from the sale of term…

Your coming closer to the light. I’m sure many other PFS agents are reading some of this stuff and they are or will be asking their RVP questions and reading their contract.

You said it best “Although some agents prefer doing partial solutions, Primerica as a whole does not. The requirements are there to allow people to help more families with a better overall solution than where they were.” You see Primerica knows there’s a good chance no one is going to get to the client after you show up..Now to even solidify the client even more, they offer the opportunity and then have them step up to the table and drink of the kool-aid….If you (PFS Life) decline a potential client, what do they suggest that client do? Remember they target 95% of the market and care about people…You see that’s the difference..You represent the company not the client. As an independent I do what’s in my clients best interest and for myself when looking at it from a business stand point. Just so you know, I feel the same way I do about other companies as I do about PFS. They are all looking out for their best interest and so should I. once I left PFS, never again…It was like getting a divorce and then having a prenup. thrown in my face..

I think Richard missed Answer this’s point, completely!!

hi
i have received a call for an interview tomorrow with Primerica
and I did not know much about them so I came here and read a lot of what everyone has had to say.
I was told it is a 30min interview.
I would be a person who would be trained by him and be hiring others.
I would like to know if I should go?
and I am hearing I have to pay them to train me. I dont know if its the same position others are talking about or if I have to pay but I’d like to hear advice from others.
Im not going to pay for a company that should be paying me to work for them.

Leeana,
I think you should draw a list of questions you have from reading these posts and comments and then, ask them your question during the interview.

I strongly encourage people to make their own opinion by making their own research.

You don’t have much to loose (30 minutes of your time ). It worth the try!

let us know about your experience!

Good luck.

TFB.

Thanks.
Yes I have came up with many questions. So i can tell if they are trying to screw me or if this is an actual job like everyone else.

Leeana first off you won’t be working for Primerica. They will offer you the opportunity to build a business inside their business model. Certain products they offer require licensing. It is not a job interview. You won’t have to pay them directly to train you.

Primerica isn’t a scam company. Just understand it’s not a job interview. If you have any questions feel free to come back and post. Some one will give some sort of input, but as TFB says, don’t take anyone’s word for anything. Make a decision which is in your best interest. One more time, it’s not a job interview.

It is an interview. Its not a job offer.

well i just had my interview and it seemed to go well.
going back on wednesday
check it out more.
if I don’t like it after I ask more questions.
than oh well there was other jobs.

I had never heard the “prenup thrown in your face” analogy Answer this… I will not forget that one!

Now Richard, I did not originally use the word “crap” until you introduced it into the context of our conversation on post dated: Feb 13th 2009, bullet #2
I used it only after you used it first as reference.

So please don’t make me sound as if I was degrading anyone or anything. In case you have not noticed I have kept my statements clear of naming any company you may or may not be contracted with. I told you I am not here to do anything but share my opinion in this already established thread, without as you call it “bashing”.

About helping until age 70…
Did you know that around ages 68 and up some permanent plans may actually be same price as some expensive term policies?
So what advantages if any would there be to issue a permanent plan over term at those ages assuming that the premium is similar, close or the same?

Just so you know, Metlife VA are available to most S6 licensed agents.
Not only that but there are other VA carriers that can do better than 5% or market best.
If we are to talk about VA then remember that aside from the VA there are also FA and FIA both of those can offer guaranteed rates with certain advantages.
So why talk about one type and from one carrier only?

FIA in particular can also offer min or market best performance but what makes them interesting is that you don’t have to deal with as many fees as some VA.
Some FIA have features that blow away many Variable products and may fit the client’s needs better.

When dealing with VA you always have to consider the double edged sword of fees taken out in one end while the client takes out distributions in the other. That might make an FIA a very strong contender. Please remember I am not advocating one over the other as I could issue many types from many carriers. I advocate the flexibility of choice and your right to have it for yourself or clients.

So considering that you are licensed to sell FA and FIA as well. Which one do you like best for your clients?

Richard… My point and opinion is no one should ever limit you ok.
I never understood why some companies do not allow you to sell things that they do not even issue despite you being able to.

If I open a restaurant and decide to feature Coca-Cola Inc. drinks as my soda carrier that’s cool. I get it and I know I am supposed to sell Coke drink products only but why would Coca-Cola Inc. tell me that I cannot sell apple turnovers or milk shakes or hot dogs?

Thanks to everyone here for a great conversation so far.

RRodriguez here’s my take on why a certain company would limit their agents to thir own products. They do mass hirinf and if they didn’t have in place controls, people would do all kinds of things and they might get caught up in some legal issues..Yea i know it’s kind of weak.

Here is something I found about when I left PFS. PFS has an agreement with Pre-Paid legal to offer a Primerca branded Legal plan. I wanted to continue sellign legal plans along with the new products i had available when going independent. Well I was informed by Pre-Paid legal per agreement with PFS if a PFS agent leaves PFS they can not contract with PPL directly for a period of 6 months. Now it gets better. If I wanted to offer my former clients any PPL products directly I couldn’t. Once I left PFS those clients were the property of PFS per noncompete.

When I ran the numbers, to me it seemed that if a person could make a decent amount of money just offering the legal plans especially if done by group business. That’s when I really understood the concept of bypass the middle man. It’s the same with the LTC. I was told renewals were only paid to RVP’s and above. Now that may have changed, but if it hasn’t i’m sure many agents just don’t know that’s not an industry as a whole practice to bypass the writing agent for renewals.

So beyond all the rah, rah it’s a business. Yes $99.00 may be a low cost license fee, but what else do agents give up in the big picture? Once the contract is signed the two year clock starts. So this information posted is much more than just a “debate”. There’s a business side that can have a material impact on your potential income. Look at what’s going on right now. there is a remote chance PFS could be shut down. As small as it is there is a chance. What are your options. We as independents can just change carriers and move on and have the options of adding new business lines if we so choose.

Many of the post online are about the products and how they compare to others, but people also have to look at what it really means to be in a captive enviroment especially if they are part-time just wishing to make some extra income.

Leena before you sign up take a look at the PFS contract and which products they offer.
then go to a Pre-Paid legal business briefing. Why do I say this, because PFS also offers a legal plan designed for them from PPL. Consider the ability of doing two businesses. if you wish to build a team of agents, consider doing it with the financial side and the legal side separate. two separate businesses, two separate businesses to grow, one license required (PFS) and one in most states no license required (PPL, in many instance licensing if required is just paying a fee. No license required to offer identit theft plan). NOW BEFORE ANYONE STARTS ACCUSING ME OF RECRUITING OR ANYTHING I’M NOT POSTING ANY CONTACT INFORMATION. THIS IS JUST FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES.

At the very least this is some great training for the PFS agents who may run into agnets from other organizations who can do what you can do and more but you can’t do what they can do. Do you remember the “ALL you Can Do , Is All You Can Do, But All You Can Do Is Enough”..(Not all the company allows you to do)….I like Art Williams and I still try to read and listen to his teachings when I run across it, but beyond his speaking abilities what can he bring back. He attacked Pru and Met because of their products, so term against Term what can he say? I would think he would totally redo the company. Bring in more carriers and adjust the commission structure, because it’s just a matter of time before something will have to be done..The rah, rah stuff, just doesn’t work anymore. Don’t blame other agents, blame the internet. People can post and people can research. No matter what anyone says on these boards it’s the agents agreement that speaks the loudest. If we post some wrong information please correct us. Elvis has left the building..

Thank you… Thank you very much…
Hey Answer This.
One of the most regrettable things is that the agents in companies like that don’t really know where they come from or what they really stood for in the past.
That information has been lost and they think that the company they contract with today is the same thing. Not even close…

You mention Art Williams. I like Art, his concept and agency really gave consumers a choice back in a time where there wasn’t any. For that, Arthur Lynch Williams gets all the credit he deserves however he sold his agency and it became something else. Something very different from what it was then.

The A. L. Williams Independent General Agency after overcoming many challenges and attacks eventually became a force to be reckoned with. At that point during the late 70’s a deal was struck to sell the agency to a corporation.
This deal came in with contractual changes that benefited the shareholders of the purchasing company and left the agents in a very weak position as they no longer had any leverage to affect products or carriers in their arsenal.
They could not really add more products independently and they could not switch carriers if needed. In essence they were now very much stuck with a new contract full of captive clauses and non-compete agreements which are not normal in the industry.

An agent has a fiduciary and ethical duty to improve the financial products of his clients. In fact if an agent was to find a better policy and follow proper replacement procedures it is not only ok but expected that said agent should improve the product if suitable. This is not churning and an educated client has no problem accepting such changes. However if they left now they cannot tell their clients about better programs for a certain number of years. So isn’t keeping the client in the dark just as bad as the churning they claim to protect a client from?

You see ALW Agency because of sheer sales power could make demands and changes to products. They could change carriers and they did when they outgrew their first carrier. They ended up with MILICO for a while. Take note that when Art created ALW he actually took with him his best friends from the former company. They are known today as the original 7 but the irony is that God forbid you wanted to leave that company today with any of your agents (which you brought in). You would have their legal dept sending you letters! How ironic that Art started by bringing his team from his former company and that now they cannot do that.

Anyway ALW Agency created the first 20 year term product. I repeat the AL Williams agency, that is not the three letter company which seems to pretend they are one and the same.
When sold, all the agents lost their true ownership and leverage. This greatly benefited the shareholders of the purchasing company because they now dictated a bunch of captive terms and demanded exclusivity (big money).
Imagine a large sales force that has to sell only what you allow them to sell? That is just a huge money maker.

After all… Why not they owned them… Those who understood this quickly voiced their anger and broke away to create WMA.
WMA’s leader did have a unique way of conducting business and this led to them being bounced around with compliance issues. That spin spawned the company that today is called WFG and owned by Aegon group which seems to be cleaning up their act.
So the new agents that come in don’t really know that in the past they stood for leverage, freedom of choice and fair competition. If any of them are really honest they can see the contradictions all around them.

They ask prospects without any knowledge of finance to keep an open mind but yet when someone like us talks to them, they seem to never follow the rules they expect others to follow. That is, to keep an open mind. They seem to have an attachment to the brand that surpasses common sense.
Notice that many times they do not care if there is a better system or cheaper product despite the overwhelming fact that it is better for client, company and agent. This is why some have gone as far as calling this behavior as cult-like. They become dependent on the words of their uplines, believe them without question and have a rather unique rationale when you dig too deep.
This is to the extent that if any of their own peers were to ask too many questions they are quickly discouraged, misinformed and even labeled as “negative”. They may prefer those they call coachable in the sense that you simply are to do what you are told, believe what you are told and just do it in faith not reason.
The fact that some lash out in anger when someone like me voices his point of view totally supports the very point made.

They think people like us are out to put them down when in fact at least I consider myself an educator in the matter and if I see a person who wants more from their opportunity I have no problem helping them. I have always liked helping people, in fact I do what I do because I hold myself and my team to a higher degree of “doing the right thing”. Not just against improper WL cases but also making sure that my clients have the BEST term there is. After all this is for their loved ones and as a family man myself I cannot pledge to a company as much as to those who place their trust in my abilities.
So I hope people like Richard and others finally understand that we are very much alike and that we are not enemies.

Ok folks, we are talking about policies and commissions and which company is better to work, but what this seems to be forgetting what is best for the client? If you are are a financial advisor, wouldn’t you want to do the best job for the client or you are simply not doing your job.

If I was shopping for a policy for me and my family, it makes common sense to purchase from an independent agent. Why would I want to limit my choice to only one company? An independent agent, one who is not beholden to only one carrier. It’s the only way to get an objective opinion and a fair choice. This is America and this is one freedom I love to have. This keeps things in check. If I do not like your company for what ever reason, I have the freedom to spend my money else where. Do you want the choice only between only one manufacturer of automobiles, coffee, computers, or tools? NO, I do not want to open old wounds but here is the difference between captive and non-captive. If the Agent is captive only sells on company’s product then they are a salesman. Because that is all they can sell. If they are non-captive they are advisors because they can truly recommend which plan is better for you verse them only being able to offer you one product. If one company is getting rid or changing a product you can choose another company you are not restricted to say with that company.

Did you sign a non-compete clause? Can you contact your team that you left behind? What about your former clients? How long is this clause inforced? He comes the what if’s. What if you find a better product you can not legally contact your you clients that you left behind. What if you want to tell your former team members or you former downline the better opportunity that you are involved with.

As far as the guaranteed premiums and convertability I would be foolish to leave that out of a contract if available. I would want to know for a fact that premium was not going to change for the life of the contract. I do not like suprises. I would also want the option to convert my policy. Crap happens in life look at the current crisis with the economy and how many people have lost thier savings. Did they plan for that? no. According to the Theory of Decreasing Responsibility, your need for life insurance peaks along with your family responsibilities and when you’re older, you usually have fewer dependents and fewer financial responsibilities. In a perfect world this maybe true. Just look around times are changing. Here comes the “what if’s. What if when we are older we do not have the income protection that we need for whatever circumstance and the head of household passes and the poor spouse is now faced with economic hardship. What then? I would be upset if my financial advisor did not did not at least recommed these options. What if later on in life my policy was not convertable and I contracted a medical condition that would not let me convert to a UL policy after my term contract has expired? Does the agent have their interest in the client or the commission?

Every situation is different when selling insurance and you can not cover every senerio. You must actually hear what you client is saying and open up your ears and really hear what they are saying. It’s great to educate your clients, but it is even better to hear what they are saying and put together a plan that has their interests and financial goals first, not yours. It is our job not to beat our chests and say our company is the best without actually caring about the client. I believe 100% that agents must do the right thing 100% of the time or do not do it at all.

Bottom line and again I will ask this question. When compairing your company to the other companies, what is best for the client? Is your product in the best interest of the client you are serving or is your interest only in the company that you are working for? There can be a beautiful balance for both the company and client and a win/win for all.

Another Art Williams gem. ” You wanna be somebody? You wanna be somebody? You want to get to the point in life where nobody can squeeze you. At A.L Williams you can become mega wealthy. Take your family on the great vacations. Be your own boss. We don’t sell policies, we sell hope…At ALW we have a company where the salespeople are king..etc, etc, etc,, ( Well really I forgot the rest)”

Here’s a classic I came across on another message board. I may have posted it before,

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/do-it-a-l-williams/491213932

So as you PFS people can see for us it’s about the client and the opportunity. Being in a captive enviroment, it’s about the company..Read your contract.

That was a point made… ALW General Agency did allow you to be your own boss while today’s version does not truly allow it and ALW General Agency the agent had leverage, while today’s version of the ALW Agency the agent has little choice but to leave if they don’t like it. Even if they leave they have to uphold a non-compete for a couple fo years.

Art said “you have to have something unique”
That is so very true. They did back then in the 80’s but now in my opinion anyone pretty much has a comparable or even better system and products. It’s like they did not evolve, what’s more to me it looks that the sales force was somewhat isolated from information.
It is one of those problems that could arise when you submit to a system that suggests complete dependence on in-house workshops.
When you sit with a client they may have products that you understand very little about if all you get is sales training on the products you do have. Notice how agents from those places consistently suggest products they market without recommending other products that may be more suitable because they don’t know about them.

I think that in today’s enviroment you must bring to the table something that sets you apart from the other guy.
Today pretty much everyone has cheaper term policies with guaranteed level premiums.
So if you are a BTID agent you really must ask yourself if you have something the other guys does not have. Something that sets you apart from the pack of average agents.
What would that be?

Would it be a recruiting opportunity?
Well then hopefully you understand that you must have something that allows true ownership, no networking issues, no giving up legs and freedom to manage products with superior compensation.
If you have anything less than that you may be a bit outdated.
Which agency or agencies do you contract with Answer this?

RR, you keep saying there are better term products out there that are also less expensive. But you have yet to give any details about these better products. Why don’t you get specific and give us all some details. How about an actual policy from an actual company. Give us a real comparison instead of just running your mouth. And when you supply us with an actual comparison, don’t forget to also inform us as to the financial strength ratings of the companies you say have a better product. The rating I want to see is their Weiss rating. I won’t tell you what the Weiss rating is for PFS. I’ll assume you’re genius enough to find out and be honest enough to include that in your comparison. You know, since you’re all about doing what is right for the client and all. Here’s a hint. Companies with higher ratings get to charge more. You’re smart enough, that shouldn’t be news to you. So until you do this, I’ll continue to think you’re just another PFS basher with zero credibility.

Jose, I’m still waiting for you to come clean and tell us how much you make ripping people off. Remember? A $1 million whole life policy with a premium of $800 a month? You remember when I challenged you to come clean? What are you, a chicken?

While we’re at it, who do you work with RR? I don’t know but it sounds a lot like WFG. I’m probably wrong, but you know who I work with and I think it would be fair, since we’re having a debate, to know. Since you’re honest and everything, right?

No Eric,

I am well respect individual withing my community and my business. Your ignorance on this matter is tied to your relationship with Priamerica and that’s is where it will stay as long as you are in their care.

Eric,

As for the less expensive policies out there in relation to Priamerica’s term, why don’t you waste your time and look it up, that way, when you see how many out there are less expensive, you yourself can go into shock without any of us seeing it.

Just as I figured, you’re a coward.

Eric,

In my 40 years of life and my 9 years in this business it is unbelievable that adults still resort to teenage comunication. Where is Richard? His dialogue is more interesting and educated.

Well if you’re so grown up Jose,why don’t you come clean?

Hey Eric,

Don’t waste any more salive or your precious time with these jokers…just do what you always do..do the right thing and replace all their policies as fast and as much as possible!!!

Look @ Hose Sober..up guy…he said ” In my 40 years of life and my 9 years in this business ..” his gettin old just like the rest of the industry..his time is dwindling down..their average agent ages are in the 50s..while Primericans are in their 30s…just like the dinosaurs their time has come and they will all BE extinct…we will make sure of that..because we are the ASTEROID that will wipe them off the planet!!! :p

p.s. no disrespect to all you who feel targeted..it is your faith..your destiny so live with it!

Cheers,

Eric,

I avoid inexperienced underlings because they are just ground beef here but I will make an exception for you. At least Richard knew who he was talking to but you guys just need fixing.

I have no relationship with the link I am disclosing in any way shape or form, I am not endorsing it in any professional capacity and I am only doing this to help a character named Eric get the quotes he needs for his own requested comparisons. This is not a solicitation for business or recruitment tactic.

Ok Eric…
You want to find cheaper carriers please go to any online quoting engine such as term4sale(dot)com
You will be able to set your parameters for ratings and guaranteed level premiums for any term. Satisfy yourself there…
It is kind of ironic that you talk comparisons yet you probably work with a carrier that does not provide quoting open to the public online. So exactly who is hiding specifics?
Where can the public read the very specifics you ask of others?

I already said that a carrier that has unisex ratings is not a hot deal in my opinion. What do you have to say about that specific there? Overcome that price grabber that has nothing to do with ratings. You actually correlated ratings to price and this is unlikely.

Quote a 30 year old female (highest preferred non-smoker) for 250,000 at a 30 year guaranteed level premium.
Feel free do quote males as well for the full effect.

I would not purchase a policy that is not guaranteed beyond 20 years either (another specific). We all know that there is a carrier with a real guaranteed level 35 year product that in my opinion is a better deal. Why? because it costs less, no unisex rating, fully convertible, great riders, same or better rating and all othis wrapped up in a fully guaranteed level policy!
Run the quotes and you’ll get the specific name. Print it, frame it and behold doing the right thing!

Ratings/price?
Hey guess what? I just looked at the 1/20/09 update of the Weiss list and I don’t see any carrier you are talking about on the free list of strongest carriers. I was happy to see 5 of my carriers there though. I am trying to see what your point was with that? Don’t tell me it was that price thing…
Which carrier are you with that is on that list?
You do know that there are more FSR companies too that are more prominent than Weiss right?

Oh yes… You claim that a carrier with a high FSR rating somehow charges more for that fact…
Let me get this right… Companies with higher rating can charge more? (your own words)…

Here I was under the crazy and ridiculous idea that something called M.I.E (mortality tables, expenses) and underwriting experience had something to do with premiums. Thanks for teaching me that concept of “charge more for a declining FSR since Sept 2008″. (You got that one right?)

Another specific to remember is that if you only write with one carrier you may be the last person in the list that can talk about doing the right thing. I don’t have to box anyone into one carrier.

I have already stated that I do not work for any individual agency or carrier. I own my own agency. Is that so hard to grasp?
I am not a sales rep for any one company!
Have you never seen an independent insurance agency when you walk by them?
When you need auto insurance… Don’t you go to a brokerage to see who can give you the best deal?
Don’t you know someone owns that brokerage? Hello!

Mark… You should not post while drinking and watching Armageddon but since you bring up that analogy.
You might want to remember companies get bought and sold all the time. Lets hope that asteroid doesn’t land too close huh?
You are closer to being a museum item than anyone else I have heard of. Has any insurer you know been deemed officially a non-core asset lately?

I’ll be 50 in about 15 years so I’ll always be here to smile at your jokes and inability to say anything substantial about finance matters.
No one here feels targeted. Why would they? You have not spoken about any financial strategy worth the time to read.
What can you do that anyone here isn’t already doing better anyway?

Help!!! In the middle of Primerica insurance sign up. My husband opted not to work for the co. despite the salesman’s pushing…. Still thinking about the insurance but already have a policy of term and whole life ins. from another co.. They make Pimerica sound so good…don’t know who to believe..HELP!!

Ohhhh, name calling. And Richard knew who he was talking too? Since when did the sun begin to shine out your ass? I didn’t know us “underlings” were supposed to fall down and worship all over you. Do your clients have to remove their shoes and give alms when they enter your office? Holy s*** you’re full of yourself. You probably think you can forgive me of all my sins too. So everyone, since God here won’t give you any numbers, I guess I’ll have to do it for Him. I went to your precious website. Here are the numbers. I got quotes for someone just like me. 45, standard, 30 year, $500,000. The least expensive was. . .

Male: Columbus Life Insurance Co. $164.90/ month. Weiss rating of B+
Female: Household LIfe Insurance Co. $116.38/month. Weiss rating of B
Total: $281.28/month

The same thing from Primerica: $310.18/month. That’s about 10% more. Primerica’s Weiss rating: A-

On Weiss I found 3 companies, not 5 that made the list and were found on your beloved website. And they are:

TIAA Cref: $167.84 Male, $$123.08 Female. Total of $290.92. Weiss Rating of A+. That’s $19.26 less than PFS.

Guardian Life of America: $193.12 Male, $123.08 Female. Total of $333.89. Weiss Rating of A. That’s $23.71 more than PFS.

Guardian had 2 versions of their 30 year term. One they called Level Gold Term (quoted above) and another called Level Gold Term (extended coverage). I don’t know what the difference is but the extended coverage was $27.04 amonth more for a total of $360.93. That would be $50.75 a month more than Primerica’s policy. Wait, I though PFS was outrageously expensive?

Here’s the 3rd one.

Mass Mutual: $317.12 Male, $219.24 Female. Total of $536.36. Huh? Over $200 more? Wait! Everything on God’s website is a better deal, better product, better everything than PFS. I think God has his facts all backwards.

It seems to me that PFS insurance is right in line with what is going on in the industry. From the entire list generated by your beloved website, PFS premiums are basically in line. RR wants you to think PFS is run by a bunch of country bumpkins. PFS places in force around 90 Billion in individual life insurance each year. Do you really think a company of that size is being run by a bunch of behind the times morons? RR, you’re an idiot!

Here’s a quote from God’s beloved website.

“The cheapest policy isn’t always the best policy. There are other differences that you should consider before choosing the company and product that is best for you. Many of those other differences are subjective. This means that they cannot be compared by simply placing values side by side on a piece of paper, as we can do with premiums.”

If you want cheap, then go and buy cheap. God, PFS has never claimed to be the least expensive insurance available. I also know good and well PFS is not the most expensive. Not even close. I know you would like to convince everyone otherwise. There are plenty of carriers out there that charge ALOT more and they sell plenty of insurance. I’ll assume you are busy bashing all of those companies too, because you know, you’re so full of doing what’s right for the customer and all. Oh, and I tried to get a 35 year quote on your beloved website. Problem is, they don’t offer one. Maybe there’s a secret link I couldn’t find. If you could help me out on that one, thanks. I know AIG has a 35 year product. But I don’t think I would be sending that company one penny of my money right now. How about you? See, that goes to the financial strength rating of a company. Back in May, Moody’s downgraded AIG from Aa3 to Aa2. Give me a break. Oh, that’s really taking them to task. At the same time, Fitch reaffirmed their AA- rating. Are you kidding me? AIG insurance would have to be free for me to take it. AM Best cut their rating from A++ to A+. Huh? S&P lowered theirs from A- to BBB+. Oooooh, another big reduction! Weiss’ current rating is B-. The whole point (I can’t believe I have to point this out, after all God, you should be able to read my mind) is the Big 4 rating companies ratings aren’t worth spit! It is common knowledge that S&P routinely maintains their highest ratings on companies even as they’re going under. Same with Fitch, Moody’s and AM Best. Not so with Weiss. This is my personal opinion and not some official line from PFS. I know I’ll get a long winded post from RR trying to educate this underling about rating companies. I don’t care. My personal opinion is the big 4 ratings aren’t worth spit. So save the post God.

I did see something interesting when I was on God’s holy website. I tried all kinds of quotes. A few times I noticed they have a quote from Primerica. So I checked and it was dead on. And you know what? PFS wasn’t the most expensive in any case. Neither was it the least expensive in any case. Imagine that, our premiums are right in there with the mass of other insurance companies.

Danielle it wouldn’t be in your best interest for someone to just make a suggestion to you without knowing your family situation. You can always shop your business with an independent agent. If you go to http://www.term4sale.com and input your zip code for a basic quote, it will also list I think 3 separate agents in your area. Just never drop any coverage before you have other coverage in place. Make sure you discuss the contestability time limits with the agents. Believe the contracts. Whomever you decide to go with, make sure they explain the policy to you. Sop if after a few days you find something you don’t understand, call the agent or have them come over and explain it.

Danielle,

I would full agree with “Answer This’s” suggestions. Also, I would tell that pushy salesman that you want some time and will look at different reccomendations to achieve your goal and see what his reaction is.

As for Eric’s insults, its apparent that RR, Answer This and myself are independant agents and he probably is just ticked off because he works at his unhappy full time job and his part time Priamerica stint and doesnt know what else to say except inmature remarks.

Can you imagine having this type of agent looking over your finances. No way!

It means that at least Richard spoke with more class than you and that despite differences in opinion even he knows that a 35 year product exist.

You combined different carriers / products and still $29 less than that carrier you use. Nice move that is how it’s done and it beat you.
So you are saying those $29 applied to your own rule of 72 over 30 years are nothing to consider huh?
You don’t know quoting too well. You need to know what each company specializes in. Some carriers have better deals for male smokers while others don’t. Get it? It is your job to know who to procure and how to use them…

Now if the price is lower that is a plus for Columbus and Household without a doubt. What if we assume on top that they can guarantee premiums beyond 20 years as well?
Then would you be honest enough to tell your client that they save $29 with carriers outside your domain?
That you can increase their FIN# by thousands with this $29 savings over 30 years?
Would you be honest enough to tell them their premiums may also be guaranteed if they go with those carriers?
That they may have conversion features that are useful too?
What do you do?
Where will your allegiance be?
You tell your client that they should pay $29 more because… What?
That they should take a policy that may have limited conversion features and pay more too?
That they should run the risk of an increase after 20 years?

You are allegedly quoting $310.18 a month for a policy that at you age may not be level for all 30 years. Don’t forget that there… Your premiums over time can increase after 20 years.
So EVEN if I granted you the same premium it may only last 20 years. It should be noted that you may be lying through your teeth too in your quote since we cannot quote you openly but we’ll take your word for it.
Assuming the premiums were the same for the first 20 years the policy benefits from other comparable carriers beat you anyway in value.
Now if we calculate total cost over time (30 years) then your example now may cost more due to possible increases during the last 5 to10 years. Specially at your age. Never mind longer periods…

Also, your ratings rant is unethical and pointless. Everyone here knows that policy reserves are backed by NOLHGA just like the FDIC insures bank accounts so show some integrity.
You should never imply that an insurer may default based on your ignorant opinion. You say rating doesn’t matter but half your post takes up your ratings rant? Come on…
I don’t care if any company claims not to be the cheapest. What does that mean anyway? That it has hidden value?
If they were that good I would write them myself. Just tell me where the value for the price is then?

Is there value in your experience as an agent? Talk to us about how you can turn a term policy into an asset without ROP.
Tell us why or how conversions to permanent programs have a positive use in estate planning.
How will you improve taxation of assets with the use of life insurance?

I am supposed to find the best value and that I would not allow a company to dictate the excuses I would have to give my clients for not doing a better job and forcing them to pay more because I am unable to seek out a better deal.
Good day!

Just got home, read your post and almost fell asleep. War and Peace has nothing on you RR.

Can you understand what you read when you read it? I know there are 35 yr. terms out there. I didn’t say there wasn’t. Read my post again. And where did I say ratings don’t matter? My whole point was that ratings absolutely matter. Again, you struggle to understand what you read don’t you? And since you’re going on about NOLHGA, I’ll assume you know that there are limits to the coverage, right? If you have a $1million policy and your company goes under, well, NOLHGA aint covering the whole thing. I’ll put it that way. Don’t tell me you tell your clients they’re totally protected by our wonderful government. Talk about unethical! Each state varies but the typical limit is $300,000. Bu I’ll assume you already knew that, being as I’m an underling and all.

Let’s talk about your value as a whole life con artist. Do you actually sell your clients that permanent insurance can somehow improve their estate? That it can somehow reduce inheritance taxes? That by plowing tons of money into a dinosaur financial product their heirs will be better off? Go back to my post on Dec. 4 and prove to me my numbers are wrong. So far, none of you have even attempted it. I wonder why? If that guy followed my advice, his heirs would have more money AFTER paying estate taxes than they would by following your advice and avoiding estate taxes. Where does the difference go? It goes into the pockets of you so called financial advisors. Go ahead RR, get out your calculator and start crunching. Let’s see if you’re smart enough to figure it out. Until your math proves me wrong, you aint got no value.

Eric no one is saying they promote Whole Life as a main product. As for long term coverage there are also Universal life products that can be guaranteed to most any age. With those policies the cash value is kept low enough (basically zero) to keep the policy in force for the required length needed. As for the reference to America General, it’s kind of the same situation as Citigroup and Primerica. AIG has issues, not American general. Citi has issues not Primerica. The difference is Citi can’t find any buyers (Per media) for Primerica and has the option of winding them down. Do you tell your clients and recruits about that situation?

As for the use of the term site, it’s just a reference, because nothing is in stone until the client goes through underwriting. Some companies underwrite more than others. In some cases I run into people who just don’t want people taking blood or coming to their home for a paramed. That’s why I have have access to carriers who don’t require exams. They basically just check data bases to verify the med information given. So there’s quite a bit that goes into policy pricing.

The problem for me with the PFS mantra is the “brain washing” that they are the only one’s out doing the BTID concept and out to help people. If you look read your post many of us agree with you, just not about using Primerica as the be all to end all. If looking at BTID if another company will write a wife better than the husband, why not use that company and another for the husband? That’s doing what’s best for the client. You see I drank the kool-aid until I ran across situation like that. Primerica was everything. They had the best products, the best service and the best agents. No company can be all that. How can anyone defend one company against a whole industry? Just consider this. Primerica/ALW has been in business for over 30 years and where are the masses of financially independent people? What about all the agents who bought Citi stock over the years? At some point people have to start thinking for themselves, and stop looking all glassy eyed when a speaker is up on the podium.

It’s fact that term insurance is good for most people and there are many different companies that offer it. It’s fact that new agents can get better contracts outside of PFS. It’s a fact that PFS limits their products to their agents. It’s a fact that most PFS agents are part-time and are independent contractors. My question is this. If people are part-time and independent contractors (Not employees to PFS) what is the big issue with who you use BTIV? PFS is one company among many? Is their program that strong across the board or is it the kool-aid? Think about it. You PFS agents can make more money doing the same things and more outside of PFS, but your so loyal that you will restrict your income which directly effects your lifestyle for your family. Which brings out another question. Where is your loyalty? With your family, friends and clients, or to PFS and your RVP? You see when I left PFS it bothered me mailing in my resigination letter. It bothered me for a few days. Notice I said a few days? Why, because Primerica legal sent me a letter basically saying thank you for your time and send us back any printed material you have and stay way from your business you built for a set length of time. So you see PFS agents get caught up in all the emotional stuff and really believe that 100% of the time they are what’s best for everyone. It’s just not true because PFS won’t cover everyone. You see it comes down to this. It’s business. How do you want to service “YOUR clients? You find them, educate them and then cover them. Do you want to do what’s best in your opinion or what;s best in the companies opinion? If I have a client who is going through a divorce and balks at court ordered coverage, yes i’m going to offer a ROP term as an option. The client has the option to say that’s not what they want, but then it might be something they do want. It’s about having option to assist your clients. One way is for the benefit of the company.

the more you guys argue, the closer you become to leaving PFS and going independent. Once you get the basic training and over come the fear of doing presentations or prospecting you will see it makes much more business sense to go independent, especially if you can do it on a part-time basis. You can debate all you want about the term site, but we all know the market your in and that market has limited funds. If you know you can get a client more coverage for their premium dollar and you still sit there and keep other information from your clients who may just be a family member let alone a spouse you are putting the needs of the company (PFS) above all else. On a personal level if you died right now (God forbid, and at least wait until you finish reading this post) what amount of check would go to your spouse? Take what your paying (PFS) now and shop coverage amounts. Just move the numbers around on the term site. After you do that, ask yourself again, where is your loyalty?? Then ask your spouse which amount would they rather have. That’s where the quote “All You Can Do, Is All You Can Do. But All You Can Do Is Enough.” Help people to the best of your abilities. One product and limited offerings are in the best interest of the company.

Drink up..

Greatly put “Answer This”

My experience with Primerica is limited and maybe one of you former Primerica guys or agents still with Primerica can answer a couple of questions about Primericas recruiting practices since we are also comparing Primerica with other companies.

I had no experience working for or with Primerica as an agent or employee. Here is how I was contacted. I received a phone call out of the blue (a cold call), from a Primerica representative stating that he received a business card from a friend saying that I would be a great asset as a manager within his company and would like to know if I was interested in coming down for an interview. WOW I was curious and entertained his offer and set an appointment to discuss this job opportunity. Long story short I went to the office filled out a form and waited to have my interview. The interview basically like this, you can make alot of more and the majority of our Agents are making over 100K and in a few years you can have your own office. Now I am seeing that this job interview is a recruiting interview for me to join a company that is not an actual job working for a compaany as an in house employee but rather as an independent contractor working for commissions. Why not be honest up front and explain that this is a “business opportunity” that I have to invest into. After doing some research online I actually made the decision to go independent. I felt deceived.

After reading the IBA it was very restrictive. Here are some points that I considered:

You are an independent contractor (and not an employee or officer of any Primerica Company, or an owner of any part of the Primerica sales force or customer base), which means that you may exercise considerable discretion in how you conduct your business. You are responsible for your own expenses, including federal and state self-employment taxes, Primerica
Company administrative fees and other expenses you incur. The Primerica Companies may periodically change products, services, compensation and marketing programs.

This Agreement may be terminated by either party with or without any reason or cause. This Agreement shall also automatically terminate in the event of your death.

I will solicit and sell only Primerica financial products and services. I will not solicit, sell, market or promote any investment, note, loan, insurance policy or any other financial product or service not approved by Primerica.

You recognize that the Primerica Companies invest substantial sums in building and maintaining the Primerica sales force, and that retaining agents and protecting the Primerica sales force from unfair competition are important to both Primerica and agents of the Primerica sales force. Accordingly, you agree that you will not, directly or indirectly, solicit any Primerica agent for the purpose of inducing the agent to leave, to engage in any other direct marketing activity, or to reduce his or her activity with any Primerica Company. This restriction will be effective until two (2) years after termination of this Agreement.

You recognize that it takes a substantial period of time for Primerica Life to earn a return on its investment in new insurance policies and other products and services. This investment includes commissions you may receive. To protect this investment, and to protect Primerica agents’ stake in their own commissions, it is important for Primerica to preserve its customer base and avoid unfair competition. Accordingly, during the term of this Agreement and for two (2) years after its termination, you agree that you will not, directly or indirectly, solicit any Primerica Life insurance purchaser (that is, the policy owner who personally dealt with you or another Primerica agent to obtain the insurance) for the purpose
of inducing him or her to reduce, terminate or replace that policy. Following termination of this Agreement, this provision will be limited to prohibiting your soliciting, directly or indirectly, Primerica Life insurance purchasers only when all four of the following additional criteria are met: (i) the solicitation is of a Primerica Life insurance purchaser with whom you or your downline agents personally dealt on behalf of Primerica Life;
(ii) the solicitation is of a Primerica Life insurance purchaser whose purchases of Primerica Life insurance resulted in your earning commissions (which should be evident, for example, in commission records provided to you); (iii) the Primerica Life policies that you are attempting to reduce, terminate or replace are less than seven (7) years old at the time of the solicitation; and (iv) the solicitation is of a Primerica Life insurance purchaser who lives at the time of the solicitation within fifty (50) miles of the location of any of the principal address(es) that you had during the one (1) year period before termination of this Agreement (as determined in accordance with this Agreement or any written amendment). Prior to termination
of this Agreement, these four criteria are not applicable. You agree that this restriction is a fair and reasonable way to help protect Primerica Life’s customer base against unfair competition.

Now I am no lawyer, but the cards are not stacked in my favor. If I join I can not sell any other products that are not Primericas. If I leave to find a better company or products for my client I can not tell them or even talk to them for 2 years this would even include my former agents that I worked with within Primerica.

If I am going to be an independent business owner not an employee why would I want to restrict myself?

Now further research was done at the Primerica website under important disclosures link at the top of the page and this is what I found.

Financial Needs Analysis

The Financial Needs Analysis (FNA) is designed to assist you in identifying your financial needs and goals so that you can make better informed decisions in managing your money. An FNA is developed based on information you provide, as summarized on data input pages, and on certain generally accepted assumptions and reasonable estimates. It is provided to you as a complimentary, no-obligation service by Primerica Financial Services. The Financial Needs Analysis is not a financial plan. The FNA should be construed as a guide for you to use in deciding how best to attain your financial goals. Representatives are compensated through commissions or referral fees on the sale of financial products offered by the financial product companies they represent. Representatives are not financial planners, investment advisors, financial consultants or other specialists who provide financial advice and whose compensation may be unrelated to sales.—- This is not a financial plan and Representatives are not financial planners or financial consultants. This would mean that they are only sales people that can only offer what Primerica sells. If there are better options then they are restrited and not allowed to give choices and options to thier clients.

Another disclosures. The products and services offered by the companies noted above may not be available in your jurisdiction, state or province. The products and services your Primerica representative may be able to offer also may be limited. Please consult your local Primerica office or your Primerica representative for a listing of products and services available.—- So if you can not offer a product because of an are maybe limited or not available, you can not offer them anything. How does this help the client?

And last but not least, Personal Income
Any cash flows or success stories stated are not intended to demonstrate the earnings or success levels of typical RVPs/representatives. Rather, they reflect the potential that comes with building your business, and there is no guarantee that you will achieve any specific cash flow or success level. Most RVPs/representatives do not achieve the cash flow or success levels illustrated. In the 12?month period ending in December 2007, Primerica’s sales force consisted of approximately 100,000 life?licensed representatives, to whom the Company paid a total of $682,000,000 in compensation, an average of $6,820 per licensed representative. Average RVP earnings are typically higher. Actual gross cash flow is, among other factors, dependent upon the size and scale of a representative’s organization, the number of sales and the override spread on each sale, and the ability and efforts of you and your downlines. Having said this, Primerica provides a tremendous opportunity for individuals who work hard and who desire to develop a business with strong income potential.—-An average of an average of $6,820 per licensed representative. I was told that most agents make around 100K with some hard work.

I believe that there are agents that really do not know the options that are available and Primerica is their first opportunity selling financial products. I was considering it until I did the research. If you believe that Primerica is the bomb then that is your decision and I respect that. I just encourage you to make sure that you investigate all options before you continue to promote your companys products. Remember you are the one that has to feel good when you leave that clients kitchen table knowing that you did the right thing for that client.

Now back to my original question. Why are the recruiting practices so deceptive? Why not call it what is is upfront? I have a business opportunity I need you to look at and not a job for a managers potion. Was my experience unique or is this a common practice? I understand the need for recruitment and how it works but why not say that at the begininng.

Why when making sales calls while in the “training phase to your warm market that you give to your trainer “you say “Hi, __________, this is __________. Do you and ____________ have any plans on __________ or __________evening?”
“ The reason I asked is because I am going to work with a new company and I am so impressed by what they do for families that I am seriously considering making a career change. But before I make such a big decision, I am contacting some of my closest friends to get their opinion on what it is I am doing. I was hoping we could get together. Would you and __________ be willing to help me out?” or you may say “The reason I asked is because I NEED YOUR HELP. I am looking at making a career change. I am currently working part-time and attending training classes. As part of my training, I also need to perform some hands-on training and practice a presentation. Would you and __________ be willing to help me out?” Why not tell them that you are doing what you are doing and you if you can make their finances more efficient and save them money would they give you the opportunity to do so. I did not receive this traininfg from Primerica I found it on the net from many Primerica teams talking about how to get appointments and recruiting pratices. It was apart of my research to make sure that I was doing the right thing.

Final thought. If you are a business owner, should you be allowed to move your clients if they wanted to or a least be able to talk to them ? Remember the non-compete clause? You should be able to take your downlines with you right? Should you be able to sell your business? Should you be able to sell any product or service you want? Should you be able to do this part time or full time at any level? Should you be able to work this from home and not required to have an office if you did not want an office? If you do not have these freedoms with your budsiness ownership then what do you have?

Agreed but I am still waiting for a financial topic from him rather than a subjective argument as to why he has to work with a flat head screwdriver only.

Eric, your point was that ratings meant a certain policy was worth nothing because you could not beat it otherwise, then you contradicted yourself (ratings mean nothing) and now you are back playing greasy pig assuming that all policies will go over the NOLHGA limits and STILL implying one should not sell it because YOU say the company is in dire trouble (fear based sales tactic). Well isn’t your carrier subject to ratings shitfing as well? I understand you are selling that unfounded fear to yourself. What will you do if they take away that carrier from you?
Also Answer this explained to you that parent ratings and insurance division ratings are not to be confused ok.

Not to mention that I have over 15 carriers that are not affected and ready to beat any numbers you can dish out.

Your numbers on Dec 4th are not realistic. At 38 term is still a viable option so I would not be issuing a permanent plan there.
Your numbers are completely biased into the assumption of WL issuance at age 38. No ability to customize for life huh?
Don’t you understand you are speaking about things that you have little knowledge of?
You don’t get permanent product training or estate taxation raduction strategies. Do you really think your millionaire idols don’t own permanent plans? How foolish!
Some of them even sell products you are not aware of and then they tell you to go build it big with your hands tied behind your back!
Meanwhile they play in their golf courses happy that you keep them there.
Calculators do lie if you input false info to begin with.

You are still acting out that program you have been brainwashed with. You think that we are as fixated with WL as you are with your one concept.
Not true at all. We issue more competitive term products and more competitive permanent products where needed.
You are so behind conceptually you actually really think you are dealing with the 1980’s WL products.
We have computers preparing illustrations with precise calculations to avoid creating MECs. That is an issue more inherent to VUL in bull markets and who’s talking that here?

Answer this told you that you limit your income. Think there.
How can they promise you wealth with one average product in a few lines and lacking all others while prohibiting them too?

If you client goes to an independent because they need something you do not issue it’s over for you and the referrals.
Is that worth one average term policy with a relatively low compensation and a host of other limitations?
Including no real ownership or control? Go ahead debate that one…

If you saw that you quoted lower with another carrier that does not limit you. Why are you still justifying that trend of yours?
You found lower cost term and cheaper can be better. Cheaper also means YOU are expensive without justification too!
I asked you to tell me one thing you can do that I cannot do and then imagine you being in this position for a change.
Do you really think I have someone telling me to sell WL??? LOL How silly! We are not in brainwash boot camp, we are independent and able to practice BTID better if that is what the client needs.

Oh my… L Vegas came in with the big guns blazing!

RR I noticed those contradictions myself, but as we know sometimes the more people speak the deeper the hole they can dig themself into. I just think it’s amazing that agents arn’t asking questions about the future of the company. Why would a agent paid for convention be cancelled? The agents pay for their own ticket, hotels and travel. Primeica pays for the convention so as I assumed.. Now if Citi paid for the convention center in ATL and they were going to shut them down or sell them I guess there’s no value in them sponsoring the convention so I would cancel it too.. It’s kind of like when I worked in a warehouse. The company took down the signage and yet was telling the employees everything was ok. When the announcement of the warehouse closing came down, people were amazed and shocked. I told those people to notice the signs, but as always some moved closer to the table and drank the kool-aid. Me I switched to orange juice.

People, L. Vegas posted some great info. Read it very carefully and go back to your agent agreement and read it. Do you notice anything? People we are not here to bash PFS. We are here to inform on what we didn’t know. LOL..After doing battles on message boards and being confronted with facts, I felt like a fool. I felt I was played like a fine tuned piano by the system. Think about this for a minute. Put down the glass of kool-aid and drink some water. Now consider this. You go out and prospect a client. You do a presentation. You design a plan for them. You go back and sell the program. YOU, YOU,,YOU do all the work. Well for all that effort you were paid 25% in the beginning and it only cost you $100.00 to get started….( What was your RVP paid and who made the most form the sale when you did 95% of the work?) Yea I was a sucka drinking kool-aid. How sweeeet it is..

Well let’s take a look at how much it really cost. L.V. provided the answer..

“You recognize that the Primerica Companies invest substantial sums in building and maintaining the Primerica sales force, and that retaining agents and protecting the Primerica sales force from unfair competition are important to both Primerica and agents of the Primerica sales force. Accordingly, you agree that you will not, directly or indirectly, solicit any Primerica agent for the purpose of inducing the agent to leave, to engage in any other direct marketing activity, or to reduce his or her activity with any Primerica Company. This restriction will be effective until two (2) years after termination of this Agreement.”

****In some state noncompetes are not enforcable. I think two I know of are Calif. and Michigan…Georgia might be one of them also so check with your Attorney.

So in the long term paying that $100.00 to get started may not be such a small sum after all considering what you have to give up. One more thing when signing up I never heard anything about giving up any legs…..Forget the products for a minute. This is contract…Think about it..

Answer this:
I am recovering from a minor surgery and this place simply caught my attention. You are so right about cancelling events, they did not take TARP funds. Events that are largely sponsored by agents as they do pay for admission and hotel fees too! No goverment money would have been involved. Also these trips would have motivated them to do more. Why cancel something so important to their system of rallies or training? These are some tactics…

The agency has it’s own responsibilities and it should not have been cancelled that way after them having done the work!
You see these guys don’t get that we are just outside the box so we call it as we see it but that in some things I do support them.

At least in that trip issue I say that was wrong! If a company did that to me I would not write for them. I would ask them if they came up with that idea before or after the incentive sales were in. They dangle a bonus program to the rest and they forget what was done to the trip winners. The rest probably don’t care since they weren’t going. The company should have stood up for their top producers PERIOD!

I think they recently adjusted commissions based on face values of 500K or more. Richard if you are still around can you please describe what that is all about?
Read your contract guys!!!

RR:

Yes I am still around, just been working with more clients, some of which are considerably more affluent.

As for the convention and the 2 trips canceled this year (one of which, contest had just started), it was canceled due to pressure from Citi not wanting bad publicity.

AIG got plenty of bad publicity for a $400k trip, how would Citi look if one of its’ subsidiaries spent several million when it also received bailout money? John did fight to the bitter end to allow the convention and trips to stay, however in the end, it was decided to just give in and do bonuses in exchange.

All those that won the Bahamas’ trip did receive a bonus in exchange. Instead of the convention in ATL, they are doing local conferences. I have not heard of any changes to commission for over 500k policies, however, they did increase bonuses to all levels as well as “kicker” bonuses for hitting certain numbers.

TFB:

Love the new site design.

Why would Citi look bad if PFS had taken their trip? It could have been explained that PFS isn’t having any financial issues and could have been used for the benefit of PFS. I just think Citi couldn’t care less, what benefit is it to them to go ahead with the convention?

Please don’t say they offer bonuses. That means they want to give an incentive to SELL..Hey Richard glad to see you back. I guess John is ready to go….

Let’s all remember we can fight like family (Eric), but at the end of the day it’s not personal. We jump on Richard, but he doesn’t cuss at anyone. He understands he represents PFS (Why I still don’t know) but he takes his beating and keeps on ticking. LOL

Richard what would you think of M. Vick going to the Cowboys?

Richard,

thx!

I feel like a girl with a new haircut and nobody is noticing hahahaha!

Even when explained as PFS being financially stable, it’s all paid for, no debt, plus money in the bank, Citi is still technically the parent. Citi received a bailout and the news people would focus on “Citi received a bailout and are using it to send agents on trips.” Not “PFS’s agents have earned this trip and paying for it out of surplus. An added benefit is boosting the local economy.”

Which would sell more news?

As for the bonuses, I’ve yet to find any insurance company that did not offer bonuses to their agents.

Although I support the Cowboys, I don’t pay much attention to them. It’s kinda like supporting the home team without caring what is going on.

TFB:
Any chance of fixing the error on AJAX comments? Every time I submit, it post’s but errors out.

I know, I’m still trying to fix this!
any idea?
send me an email ;-0

Richard,

That was a hilarious comment.

Mark,

While posting online, especially when it is known what company you represent, it is best to keep things civil and respectful.

The comments you just made could be grounds for termination from ANY company as it is disrespectful to others.

I admit I don’t always follow this, but I do apologize when I cross the line.

Marck,

Would you act more professional, you are doing a disservice to our industry and yourself with unthinking comments.

Does Priamerica have a hiring method that takes into account professionalism, positive atiitude and respectful manners or do they just hire anyone that can breath.

As stated many times before all over the internet:

Primerica’s agents are not hired, they are recruited as independent contractors. Each agent is responsible for their own screening of new recruits.

It is encouraged to not recruiting “anyone who can breath.” Some offices have higher standards while others do not.

Marc,
I had to delete your latest comment. I can’t let people insulting each other.

While it is hard for me to follow all the comment posted on my Primerica series, I still try to keep the blog clean if you know what I mean

Thx,

TFB.

Richard. I can’t prove it, but I have heard John himself say PFS throws poeple against the wall and keep who sticks. Ask around i’m sure you will find people who have heard and used that phrase when talking about recruiting. Something else to consider is it’s not so much the recruit, because they are probably going to quit at some point the key is having access to the new recruits warm market.

Great look TFB. I’m buying a round of kool-aid for everyone. Let’s keep it clean folks.

I never said that didn’t happen. And there are agents that do exercise that mentality. There are several in my office that do that. They recruit 10, 15, 20, 30 a month and have nothing to show for it at the end of the month. Others recruit 2 or 3 a month and have a growing business.

I prefer to be a bit more discerning and instead of giving everyone who breaths a chance, I look for certain qualities in people and give those a chance.

You were romancing affluent clients and forgot us… What a Pri-guy

I see your point that news don’t care about those minor KEY details that make ALL the difference.
Yes Pri-guys are independent contractors but the contract is not independent. In essence you become an exclusive sales person for them but because they word the contract as an independent contractor they avoid certain liabilities.
In my humble opinion the exclusivity comes at a very high price though. If you are exclusive then your products should be utterly unbeatable because you are giving up all others.

RR:

I wasn’t really romancing them since the deal is done. Besides, they are good friends of mine and have already started forwarding there other friends and associates over.

This also includes taking care of estate issues with their appropriate attorneys.

So far, they love me and can’t believe this “exclusive” guy is beating out their “independent” guy. Some things are more expensive, but performance is better.

TFB:

So far, I see 3 404’s, but they are unrelated to the issue at hand…at least partially. 2 of them are the same file (loading.gif). It is trying to pull from http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/comparing-primerica-to-other-companies/wp-content/plugins/ajax-comment-posting/loading.gif instead of http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/wp-content/plugins/ajax-comment-posting/loading.gif

TFB:

The error I see is related to a redirect. Instead of sending back a proper response to update the comment list, it sends back a url to redirect to. The error comes in since that url does not exist.

All and all, it’s the plugin. The author should be notified.

The mass recruiters are working the numbers. If I remember correctly they used to say it takes 100 recruits to get an RVP? The system is designed for the recruiters. How many of the Pri-Guys ( I like that) at the top used selective recruiting? I think it’s safe to say none. If the system could support that, it could support personal production. Recruit, recruit, recruit…

The average is 17 Licensed Reps.

Wether that is 17 Recruits or 200 Recruits is dependent on the person doing the recruiting AND training.

Oh Richard I am no average independent guy so implying that because you allegedly spank one that would be the fate of someone like me is not even a possibility.

Now what kind of state planning are you speaking of?
You sent them to that PPL attorney or other?
The attorney could tell the client to get permanent plans at some point you know that right?
Now think… Why would anyone use those kinds of plans at the end of the theory of decreasing responsibility?
I mean according to that they are not supposed to need any further coverage right?

Why is it that concept may no longer hold strongly in today’s evolved financial strategies?
What is the strategy an exclusive guy would use to transfer any left over wealth efficiently to heirs?
How can you avoid or lessen both income and estate taxation in the process with life insurance use?
You see… You are number one only until someone better comes along because knowledge is provisional. That is to say one thinks he knows until they are shown something new and it may be opposed to the old ways but it’s here now.
How did you use your policy to help them in these matters?
This is serious, not poking or anything I really want to know.

Hey RR back up off the PPL Attorney. I get some great information from them. Whew,,ok my blood pressure can go back down now. The key here is Richard said they are friends of his. Is the major point he “beat” and independent or he did the best job for the client?

I’m sure Richard did the best job he could do with what he had. If he is getting referrals at some point one of those referrals he will go see will not be one of his friends and they will run his program across someone else and can you say CHARGEBACK….LOL…RR we know how it’s going to play out. Different levels of money have different levels of access to information. PFS doesn’t market to the affluent for a reason and Richard is about to find out why.

PFS agents don’t go outside your market.

Answer This wrote.

Here is something I found about when I left PFS. PFS has an agreement with Pre-Paid legal to offer a Primerca branded Legal plan. I wanted to continue sellign legal plans along with the new products i had available when going independent. Well I was informed by Pre-Paid legal per agreement with PFS if a PFS agent leaves PFS they can not contract with PPL directly for a period of 6 months. Now it gets better. If I wanted to offer my former clients any PPL products directly I couldn’t. Once I left PFS those clients were the property of PFS per noncompete.

So again I am understanding that if you are a PFS agent you are captive to only one legal plan company that you can offer your clients while being with Primerica.

I have never used PPL so I can not say how good they are or how bad they are that is not the issue here. What if you wanted to offer a different company or some different choices that would work better for your clients? Comparing Primerica to other companies it seems that you are limited as far as carriers you can use and options you can offer your clients.

I found 17 companies that offer similiar products doing a simple web search. There may be a lot more I do not know. They varied from estate planning, personal legal service, personal/family legal service, and business legal service which included individual and group plans ranging from 14 dollars a month and up.

RR You are bring up some great points about estate taxes. Insurance is not a one size fits all. There are many different reasons to have insurance and that’s why there are different types of insurance products.

As an independent I want to be able to serve all people and families no matter how much they earn and not be limited to only one market. If they can afford it then they should have the right to have the option to protect their family and their estate. It does not matter if the have a 50K policy or 1,000,000. The concept is to protect your family with what you can afford so that your family does not have financial hardship or at least lesson some of the burden if something should happen.

L.Vegas. One of tje main points are the limitations Primerica has on their agents even though they are independent contractors and in most cases part-time just wanting to earn some extra income. Primerica as a business can offer any plan they so choose they don’t twist anyone’s arm to contract with them. In my humble opinion many agents just don’t know what they don’t know about the opportunities that are in the industry. Many PFS people have a us against the world mindset thinking they are back in the old ALW crusade days. That was a different time and a whole different animal.

The bottom line is if Primerica doesn’t offer it they can’t sell it. I do know there is a 6 months waiting period when going from PFS to PPL, but I don’t think it’s really enforced. Of course i wouldn’t want anyone to violate their agreement they have with PFS..
Something else I noticed when I was at PFS. A new person could make more money faster if they sold the Primerica Legal Protection Plan rather than the life products. Especially if they did it by group business. There’s is no underwriting. I forget the compensation, but if an new agent did a group of about ten they could make some good income. Maybe one of the PFS agents will run some numbers.

The Legal Plan is another issue. They will sell a Life plan, but hardly anyone sells the Legal plan which will give the client a Will, Living Will and Durable Power of Attorney and give the client access to an Attorney to make sure they have their beneficiary designations up to date and correct….I mention Estate Planning to all my clients and they have a choice of an Attorney of their own or the use of PPL. they have a choice of using the State provided estate plan or the one they provide. Captive and part-time…Why?? Only if you don’t know any better.

One last question for the Primerica guys or former Primerica guys.

If a person joins Primerica and decides to pass down his business to a family memeber since it is his business, is he allowed to transfer or sell his busines at any level he is currently at? If one of my childern obtain the license through the state DOI and wish to start selling insurance, can they take over my business. As an independent business owner I have this option and I do not have to be at a certain level to exercise this right. Does Primerica have this option or do you have to sell or transfer you business back to the company? If one of your childern decided to get their license would Primericas stragety is to recruit them and make them start from scratch?

Richard and RR I love the different point of views and RR is right you cannot have a one size fits all mind.

Answer This. You gave a great objective response. I guess you would have to make the decision if you were only in for a part time gig to make some money, then Primerica could be a good fit. My reason for joining the group that I am with is because I can have a great part time business which I get paid well and I do not have to market only to a certain class I can go out side the box to all types of income, low or high and use the different insurance products to meet the clinets needs. This would include estate planning, substandard risk, low income etc. If one carrier does not offer what the clients needs then I move over to another carrier because I have the freedom to give these options to my client. It is my responsibility to make sure that this is a Win/Win situation. I find the product or products that the client needs according to their goals not mine and I receive compensation through the carrier for this. Win/Win. If a client does not feel comfortable with one of my carriers then I have the option to make available another one.

Again I wouldlike to know the rules about selling or transferring my business since I do not know offically.

oh my my it seems i worked up a storm…man I cant believe you actually fell for what i wrote before..i thought that we where just talking amoung buddies..I was just testing your patience…well if its any consolation here you go: “I respectfully apologies on behalf on my ill manners and my vulgar derogatory comments that I posted earlier” Anyway, jose as long as you know that in your heart and your good conscience you really believe that what you are doing is the best and right thing you can offer your clients best interests then so be it! Its like Karma..what goes around comes around! Is this really an official website that we can get info and base our decisions on what to do about the Primerica Opportunity…I wonder..anyways you all have fun and I will just focus my attention with the outmost respect,professionalism and dedication to my team and my clients rather than wasting my time in this blog!

Good luck to you all!

P.s. TFB why dont you make a series on AIG..they’re way bigger than Primerica..with more negative news on them..that will sell for sure far more and work up a storm more quickly from lots of blogger fanatics!

Hasta la vista

L Vegas and RR:

I have never had, nor will ever have, a “One size fits all” mindset nor product.

L Vegas:

You must have the ownership clause in effect before that can happen. I believe it can be enacted 2 ways. 15 years in the business or becoming an SVP within 12 months of becoming an RVP. The exact specifics I do not know as of right now. Bottom line, once you activate the ownership clause, your Primerica business truly becomes a business that can be passed on. After that, it can be sold and willed on to another Primerica owner.

RR:

I never implied that you were average, however I do not acknowledge that you are any better than average. I have never met you in person (to my knowledge), and wont judge your abilities based on faceless posts on a blog.

Although I will not give out specifics for this clients, an overview I will.

He already has several attorney’s that I am working with and did not need the Pre Paid Legal services. Although they did initially recommend a permanent policy, after recommending my solution, they agreed it was better. Still using the same basic concepts that the more expensive permanent/cash value policies use, just removing the upper bounds imposed by them for a lower cost.

Insurance is still only a “replacement of something lost” concept and should remain that way. The fact that agents, such as yourself, still encourage the use of it for estate planning purposes tells me you do not have better products available. Wait, wasn’t I suppose to be the inferior agent?

Bottom line, I use my products for what they were meant to be used for. Life insurance for replacement of income, PPL for wills and planning, investments for retirement and “passing of wealth,” and long term care for preservation of wealth and lifestyle.

Mark C:

Although AIG has much more bad press of late, Primerica is still the most controversial company in the industry. Besides, AIG Parent is the one in trouble, not AIG Insurance. Citi is in trouble (and may even be pulled off the Dow Jones soon along with GM) while Primerica is fine.

Rich,

Thanks again for the FYI and I appreciate all the info man!
Keep doing your thing! I hope all the BIg shot pull together and put our company back to their rightfull owners…the men & women of Primerica FInancial Servies Ltd.

Go! Go! Go!

Good luck to you, your family and your TEAM!

P.S Maybe will see each other @ our company gatherings in the near futur..till that day I look forward to meeting you, your family and your teammates! Glad to have you on the front lines!

Cheers & God Bless!

Just sum FYI for everyone,

Dave Ramsey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjir8yxPUI&feature=related

Suze Orman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGDgYLCpnDo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vnN9liFWaE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5e_jAGStgM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfI6-KrBE7E&feature=related

Mark C. I my opinion doing something on AIG won’t make a difference, because many if not all of the former PFS reps. are independent agents. So if a potential client has reservations with American General, we can just offer another comparable carrier.

As for Primerica being controversial, that may not be the case anymore. It’s just a comparison of opportunities and what services/products can be delivered to the client. People can just compare products and contracts and decide what’s best for them and just compete across the kitchen table. Numbers don’t lie.

We all have the basic goals of helping people save money or build wealth, give people a systematic plan to get out of debt. Have Term Life to protect the client. Free up as much money where available to build wealth, cut the cost of their mortgage, etc. One is a captive platform and the other is an independent platform.

If you truly believe you are offering your clients the best product you can provide for their need then more power to you. For the independents, we strive to provide the best product available by having access to many different carriers to fit the need of the client.

There’s no controversy, it’s just about choice. There’s one constant with the debates with the current and former PFS agents. The independents know both sides from a working both sides in the field. Captive and independent. The current PFS agents only know the PFS side which is being captive. I have yet to hear of anyone who has left PFS went independent and went back to being captive with PFS. It may have happened, but I just haven’t heard of it.

In my humble opinion from what I see that’s happening if PFS doesn’t make some changes, they are done regardless of what Citi and PFS decide to do. The products that are coming available in the market place are just evolving too much and with the economy as it is many people are entering the financial services industry and PFS is training getting many people licensed. A problem that they will have to fix per contract is once they get people licensed and the agents find out the opportunities available as an independent agent especially what’s going on with the investments side many will leave.

Active money management is coming to main street. Do some research on inverse investing. Ask yourself this. Who manages your clients money? Who manages your money? Markets are changing constantly so who can make adjustments and when? Who manages your money? Bear or Bull some do make money in both markets. “Good Luck to you, your family and your TEAM..”

We will see you across the kitchen table and let the client win.

I reviewed the above links Mark C. posted on 03/17/2009 and I found a link that came out Feburary 2009.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/stop-listening-to-suze-orman.aspx

I am not here to say anyone is bad, I just wanted to post an article that someone sent me. Many so called financial advisors are saying only BTID and that is true for most of the time, but it has to make sense. It is not in everyones best interests all of the time. The links to the video that Mark C. provided made it clear that it should be BTID all of the time. That makes it a one size fits all. The first video he states that he could recommend term life insurance because the rest of it is garbage and it is a rip off.

Answer This stated it beautifully. “Insurance is not a one size fits all. There are many different reasons to have insurance and that’s why there are different types of insurance products.”

RRodriguez explained it well in a few words, ” Any person who claims to know anything about insurance yet operates with already dictated terms is not objective. For instance let’s say that a certain company thinks that buy term and invest the difference is the way to go. You must realize that a client will never get customized solutions there because the idea that a 30 year old should have the same program as a 68 year old is wrong. They don’t understand that there are things that may affect some clients like estate taxes in which life insurance is very important and term may not be the best tool then. Did you know that around ages 68 and up some permanent plans may actually be same price as some expensive term policies? So what advantages if any would there be to issue a permanent plan over term at those ages assuming that the premium is similar, close or the same?

Thank you Mark C. for posting those videos.

What are the people in Mark C. videos trying to accomplish? Educate people to only one way of thinking, selling their books and programs, or both? The perfect situation or perfect senerio almost never happens. That is like when the engineers evaluate a new air conditioning unit from the assembly line, it is done in a clean room conditioned at 70 degrees, it is not a real field like condition or situation it is in a labatory. The theroy sounds good on paper and when you actually are in the field it is totally different. People are people and stuff happens to them and thier families. The first video stated that he was in great shape did not smoke and was age 47 and gets a great rate on his term insurance because SWI (Sharon wants it). How many 47 year olds do you know that are in great shape? Remember this is America, king of fast foods. BTID is not the only solution 100% of the time. You must be flexible and have flexible products to meet your clients needs and goals not yours. You are supposed to be working for them. Not everyone is going to have their house paid off when they are in their 50’s, not everyone began investing when they were in their 20’s. This is not a perfect world so the one size fits all does not work as suggested in BTID 100% that the videos Mark C provided.

Hey L Vegas,

Your entitled to your opinion and I wont argue with that. Although I know that its not for everyone but what market do you carter to will dictate what u will generally offer to your clients..Primerica’s market is the middle class working family although we help the rich and sum of the poor our marget is the middle class so that is why we market BTID. Just like Wallmart & Mcdonalds we want to expand quickly just like Mcdees and help the majority who needs it the most just like Wallmart! The rest ,well if the industry wants to fight for the leftovers then go ahead it more likely you will be able to help them as you said..since that is your target market!

I posted those links so that our fellow bloggers may see the injustice that so many agents or advisors are really doing in the marketplace. Thats is all because as Primericans we come across usually always WL & UL all the time..rarely do I see TermL insurances that are in place…THAT’s the reality! Whether you like or not after peeling all the layers that you other independent agent are saying..is the truth..that is out there!

If you have better term plans that primerica why is it that the industry still sells WL / UL/ VL huh? Why did primerica come to existence if you did your jobs so well huh?! Anyways, if the clients has a plan that is good and right for them..why should I replace it! Bottom line clients priority first before personal gain alright…that way you keep your clientele longer and dont find out later from a Primerica the difference they we’re not told …so that you can help and keep them long term as your clients and possible get compensated more by doing so..Im I right!!!

All Im saying from the very beginning if all those people who are already in there 60s, 70s & 80s back when they where younger if they where giving a proprer financial game plan and BTID they would not have the need of getting those expensive WL-UL-VL policies that the industry sold and still selling to younger families to get them on the hook..like fish in a pond and repeat their parents mistakes..well its not really their fault its their advisors mistake because their the professionals who should know better and advise all their clients accordingly!

L vegas please stop trying to discredit suze or dave since at least they have the guts to and the respect by others and well know infuential people to be put on the news or as guest speakers on talk shows and have their own money show, unlike that someone who cant even use his real name let alone leave any kind if contact info on them and say that they are not credible source. Listen man if you heard the example on those links you should see what the industry is really doing to their clients and thats what I wanted you all to see. Why dont you go out there and make a difference just like suze or dave then maybe your words will carry more weight. So Thank you Mr. L vegas!

Oh Answer this good luck to you and your family too! May you always do the right thing to all you clients and keep up the good work! God Bless!

Cheers

Mark C. you wrote “If you have better term plans that primerica why is it that the industry still sells WL / UL/ VL huh?” Please do not get me wrong, I believe in BTID but only when it makes sense. I have replaced Primerica’s term polices because I have a better products and better prices. What I mean exactly to back up this is run a quote from http://www.term4sale.com. I am not affiiliated with this website, but I use it to compare with other companies to check prices when I am trying to explain to this to other agents. Here are the number that I came up with and you can verify by using the same information by using the inputs that I put in to run the quotes.

First quote, in the zipcode 92121 a male with a birthday of 06/14/1967 in the health status of preferred plus with a 20 year guaranteed 250K policy with a minimum life rating of A-. Where does Primerica rank? There are at least 50 companies ahead of Primerica. Primerica does not show up on that page.

Second quote, in the zipcode 92121 a male with a birthday of 06/14/1967 in the health status of regular (average) wanting a 20 year guaranteed 250K policy with a minimum life rating of A-. Where does Primerica rank? Primerica ranks in the 40th position. Primericas monthly premium is $53.20.

Third quote, in the zipcode 92121 a female with a birthday of 06/14/1967 in the health status of regular (average) wanting a 20 year guaranteed 250K policy with a minimum life rating of A-. Where does Primerica rank? They do not show up on the page. When I ran this quote The 1st place company had a premium of $30.84 and the 50th company had a premium of $44.59. I hope i am right on this one, is Primerica a carrier that has unisex ratings. Would the monthly premium be $53.20 the same as the male? This does not seem right since females live longer than males should’nt their polices be cheaper? This is why I can replace Primerica’s policies.

I do not go into a clients home and tell them anything bad about Primerica, I simply review their policy have and explain what my policy offers such as how the TIR or ADB works, show them the obility to convert the policy if need in the latter years of thier life and explain the guaranteed death benefit and guaranteed premium. If I can offer them a better product at a more economical price or offer them more death benefit at the same pricethat they are now paying I let them decide. The second quote example one of my carrier has a monthly premium of $41.56 for 250K. What I may suggest to the client is that we verify that he has the correct amount of coverage for his family and he can keep his death denefit the way it is and have a lower premium or increase his death benefit to 300K and pay $48.83 and still be lower than Primerica’s monthly premium or pay a little more than Primerica’s monthly premium of $53.20 for 250K in DB by paying $56.09 and his family receiving 350K in DB. That would be $2.89 for 100K more of protection. This is why I am independent because I do not have to worry about being linked to just one company. I can gather data from my client and review options that he has and give them a choice of plans, prices, and options according to their needs and goal.

Since they are already responsible people by protecting their families I let them decide which is the better policy for them.

If a person has VL and they are 100% sold on keeping it, then my offer to them is that they give me a chance to see if I can get them one of my VL policies from one of carrier whom I represent at a better price for them. If I can not then I let them know that and I leave. I do not need to force feed them anything they do not want. We should all be responsible adults and if I have explained to Mr. Client why they should go with a different product and they are convinced not to go with my recommendation then I have done my job.

Eric C. wrote “L vegas please stop trying to discredit suze or dave since at least they have the guts to and the respect by others and well know infuential people to be put on the news or as guest speakers on talk shows and have their own money show, unlike that someone who cant even use his real name let alone leave any kind if contact info on them and say that they are not credible source.” Respectfully are you going to purchase insurace from me, no why do you want my contact info. I am not bashing your company I am stating facts and I giving you my professional opinions. Ok if you post your contact information I will give you mine simple. I googled Eric C. and came up with 65,900,000 results which one are you hidding under. That’s just silly to bring up this point. It has nothing to do regarding the topic.

As far as this link http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/CreateaPlan/stop-listening-to-suze-orman.aspx please check who the authur is it is not me and just as you have the right to post your links then I should have the right to play devil’s advocate.

Last link http://video.ksl.com/sid_video/3008453.rm here is a link from a new brodcast that explained about a Primerica office getting raided. This happened about a year or so ago. You may have to get the real player installed to play the video on your PC if you already do not have it.

Hey L vegas,

Like I said I wont get into a heated debated with you. That’s your opinion and your recommendation..I respect that so long as you do in the end always the right thing for your clients!

Does the term you offer have any riders..like Terminal Illnes Accelerated benefits..and how about Disability waiver of Premium….how about a child rider of one price for up to 3 children or more of coverage each and able to renew their child rider and get up to 5 times their child rider benefits without proof of health or medical eligibility… how about a term family plan to bundle the whole family with 1 policy fee and one plan to save more money…how about a longer term like a 30 or 35 year terms..so that they dont have to renew every 20 years..and give them more time of coverae in case their assets havent grown enough yet to for them to become self-insured and have no longer need for big coverages or insurance at all!

I know you can find cheaper term plans out there but they are mostly tied up with sum accidental death and dismemberment or expensive critical Illness..which is another whay for agents to make more sales and thus more commisions while still offering them a cheap basic term plan for 20 years..but not with the same benefits as a Primerica Term plan…so you can’t really compare apples to oranges my friend you have to see what Primerica term can offer vs. other term plans out their!

Furthermore, we have a BBB rating of A+ since 1980..I would say that is pretty impressive dont you think…I know lots of independent free lancers agents would love to get their hands on some of amazing products..but Primerica puts a fence around them so that we dont get sold out life the rest of the industry..that is why I think the industry doesnt like it..then again dont take my word for it. Oh there is no Eric C. and I dont need to put my full name out here couz I am not obliged..I think First name basis is good enough to start! Is L vegas your real name?? My advice..dont waste all your money in casinos! You’ll ba a whole lot richer by keeping you money! J/K! :p

Neways man aslong as you do what is right for your clients and feel good about it and have no regrets when you go home at sleep night in bed then good for you!

Catcha @ the kitchen tables!

Good luck to you and your family!

Cheers!

Just to be fair Primerica offices are independently owned. As for the riders mentioned above many other carriers have those riders. Something to consider is currently the divorce rate is hovering about 50% (rule of thumb) When a plan is bundled at some point it may have to be unbundled, be it death or divorce. Next we look at the one policy fee. Unisex rate, verse individual rates. If one is an impaired risk it can make difference. As for company Best ratings well today that’s taken with a grain of salt.

As for the length of term. Using BTID concept and the theory of decreasing responsibility there shouldn’t be a need for life insurance beyond the term period. Isn’t that why an FNA is done? If there is a need I would think it would be a much lower face amount due the accumulated savings.

Now here’s my two cents on posting names. Primerica does monitor message boards. I have “heard” that they have had some shut down even some by PFS agents. There are some agents who take what is posted very personal if it’s fact or fiction and have tried to have licenses taken away. In the old days (about 3-5 years ago) the debates on the Ken Young and Misled By PFS boards got intense to the point personal information was being posted and the courts became involved. Not to mention calls to PFS directly.

This debate is very tame. Many of us who are former PFS agents just want people to know things we were never told and had to find out the hard way. Every company will say they are the best. Every company is looking out for themselves first. it’s business.

For the people who read these blogs they should just take any information given at face value and do some research. If someone wants to use the Primerica platform more power to them, but after all the information is given they can not say they didn’t know about other options or how the products compete in the open market.

One day we all are going to leave the industry by death, retirement or just quit. In many cases the companies will still be going and some clients will still be paying premiums. Yet it’s said term will go to claim 1-2% of policies sold. I don’t know if people noticed but companies offering Return Of Premium are raising rates. Fixed/Indexed Annuity products are in high demand but companies are cutting off agent appointments. this back and forth can get emotional, but there’s still the business side. There’s a reason PFS has the commission structure they have. There’s a reason their agent agreement reads as it does. There’s a reason they limit the products they offer. There’s a reason the meetings are like a southern revival. It’s business..Think about. Take the emotions out and think about it. We all basically use the same concepts. It’s just some of us use different tools and some use one.

AIG is in the news and if a client doesn’t want to use American General products some of us can just use another carrier. Citi is in he news and if a potential client has reservations about Primeica there’s no other option. From a business stand point having a choice of carriers is in my opinion a major advantage be servicing the client or earning income. As Mark C says what works for him may not work for me. All things are not for all people.

Hey Answer this you already madde your statement and reservations about Primerica….are you trying to get the final word..anyways that’s just the blogs works.. a never ending vicious cycle of comments and statements and a really endless debates. So lets just end it by do what you do and we do what we do ..we will see who will come out last in the end!

Geez give it a rest already folks find other past times and live your lives!

Mark C. with respect I meant Mark C. not Eric C. that was my mistake.

Your riders in your policies are similiar to mine TIR Terminal Illness Rider or Accelerated Death Benefit is included at no charge, child rider pay for one child and the rest of the children are included at no additional charge, etc.

I really must say that everyone is really civil and professional with this debate. It does not matter which company you work for as long as you do the right thing and believe it in your heart that you are doing the right thing. I heard this saying from my mentor

” When a man who is honestly mistaken learns the truth… He will either cease being mistaken, OR cease telling the truth.”

This is the gut check we all must ask ourselfs.

You are correct about about Primerica offices are independently owned. There are honest owners and agents and dishonest owners and agents in all different types of companies. I am not picking on Primerica. Just like your automotive repair shop. There are honest places and dishonest places selling you the not needed add ons and extra over priced parts that you do not need. We as agents need to do the correct thing all of the time.

I have chosen to be an independent professional agent. If you are happy with where you are and you are happy that you are do it for the right reason, then carry on. If you are truthful to your self I can ask no more.

Thank you for the advice Mark C. I actually avoid “the strip” , I run from the one arm bandits, and the only card trick I know is 52 pickup.

I will now rest my keyboard and wish everyone good luck in their business adventures.

Mark C. You made some points that people who may not be in the know could consider as accurate. As L.V. pointed out also many other companies offer those riders and different levels of TIB payouts. i’m not picking on Primerica either. When I was an agent with them I found out there were many things I just didn’t know. As always you do you, but there are many other people who may come to this site for information. To imply that those riders are Primerica specific just is not true. As for bundling a policy it all sounds good but most agents never question what happens when it has to be unbundled. I didn’t. Life events do happen. We can’t tell the future, but we should consider it.

L.V. don’t go…. As for the last word, that’s not my goal. My goal is just supply information and let people make their own decision. Primerica or any company should stand on their own merits. Facts are facts. I’m sure you noticed I have not tried to recruit anyone. Not you nor Richard or anyone else who may have posted here. At one time ALW/PFS was on the attack and now they are on the defense. What has changed? Hmmmm… The industry has changed and it’s still changing. Anyway FTB needs people to visit his site. If people don’t post people won’t come. I’m doing this for FTB..That’s my story and i’m sticking to it. LOL..

I appreciate your support and your comments guys keep debating ! hahaha!

seriously, I think that both sides (pro Primerica and against Primerica) have the chance to express their point of view.

TFB is probably one of the best source of information about Primerica since we have pro’s and con’s and it will be up to everybody to decide whether they want to join or not.

thx to everybody!

Please excuse my error. I stand corrected. TFB..

Okay Financial Blogger, you get a lot of traction out of this. Very interesting that you have not had a debate about any other insurance or investment company.

That is because people are jealous of Primerica and have a need to put it down since a lot of the business we do is to REPLACE policies which Suze Orman, Bob Brinker and many others say is the BEST INSURANCE! … TERM LIIFE.

Thati is all we sell.

AM Best gives us an A+ rating over and over again.

Primerica helps a lot of people.

The other companies are losing business and want to diss Primerica because of jealousy.

Why don’t you discuss the high fees of Investors Group or the suits against London Life agents for promising what they didn’t deliver?

Why don’t you quote what third parties say about Life Insurance?

If you did, you would realize that Primerica is the ONLY company that puts their money where there mouth is and ONLY SELLS TERM.

I could go on at length about why Universal Life is often in trouble like when in bad economic times, there is not enough money in the fund to pay the premiums so if you don’t pay higher premiums, you lose your insurance.

Most people criticizing Primerica here are failures at their Primerica business. So now they want to blame Primerica. Primerica is growing. Others are not.

You want part time? What other insurance company does that?

Maybe there are some but do they sell ONLY Term insurance?

Remember anyone including you Financial Blogger can put anything they want on the internet. I have many blogs and sites.

Just because it is on the net, does not make it true! I see you have many misconceptions. I also see that you really could care less as long as it gets more people to your site, do you?

Yes Primerica is hyped the way anything is hyped. What on earth is sales all about? Hype! Most of the over-the-counter drugs are hyped every day on TV.

Most making money at home schemes are hyped! What is advertising? HYPE!

Sports are hyped! What do you think TV is? ONE BIG HYPE! They only put the programs on FOR ONE REASON! TO GET YOU TO BUY SPONSOR’S PRODUCTS.

I can see why some of the people criticizing Primerica are here.

THEY ARE NOT OUT DOING BUSINESS! Not yelling just emphasizing.

If any one of them came to me with such faulty unfounded logic and tried to sell me ONE of their products, I would be crazy to listen because they don’t get to the point.

The only people I see making sense are the ones who are Primerica agents who are trying to explain what we do.

I am a senior part-timer. I do not have time to spend a lot of time on the business. But I have not found ANY BUSINESS which gives you the option to help people, 80% of whom have the wrong kind of insurance because they were sold it.

They have less coverage than they need because they can’t afford the higher premiums of the cash value insurances. When a Primerica agent comes to talk to them and sells them term, they are being done a favour or a favor [depending on your country (:-)]

So argue with the Bob Brinkers, David Ramsays, Suze Ormans and the others financial authors who have NO relationship to Primerica. They ALL AGREE. Buy Term! That’s what we do!

Cars are hyped, Food is hyped. Obama was hyped!

Hopefully an adult can check out both sides of an issue and discover truth but it is buried very deeply on this blog!

Why don’t you ask a Primerica rep or rep from headquarters to write an article explaining what and why Primerica does what it does? Then have some other company explain why they do what they do?

Then go to the third party materials and experts and guess what?

They all support the BUY TERM idea. That is what Primerica does.

Hey again fellow debaters!!!Here we go one last time!
Hopefully… :p

Mr. Answer this, the reason divorce rates are so high is due to the major underlying core cause…its due to stress..coming from money problems my friend…thats is what Primerians do..we solve peoples financial problems by educating them how money works and helping them with our financial concepts and solutions..giving them a game plan to get them on track for their Financial Independence and give them an opportunity to make sum extra income parti-time or full-time by totaly changing and taking control of their lives! Thus the need for Primerica folks!

Mr L Vegas, I can see you have a good sense of humor thats a good quality specially in this business..one cant be soo serious all the time..or else this business will really stress you out! Oh and we we’re never on the attack..we we’re just meeting you head on to match point to point againts your arguments in the beginning and now we jst grow tired of this never ending discussion! Well this is what I mean..not everybody have the same perspective and outlook @ life! God bless you and your family and lots of luck in your work!

Mr. Answer this once again buddy I know what you are saying but go out their how many Primerica Terms vs Universal or Whole life or Variable life are out there…you should have figured it out by now if you are out their every single day life I am! Rarely do I see term being sold..even though their not from Primerica…and thats the end of that! Good luck and go back out their and you will see the real truth! Go for vacation or something and clear your vision so that you can have a better view!

Mr. TFB, well thanks for re-enforcing my belief and strentening my resolve about what whe Primericans do out there by making a REAL difference in peoples lives! Good luck to you to and please make a new topic this one getting redundant!

Finanly, Mr. Computerman, all I have to say is AMEN to that!

ASTA LA VISTA Y’ALL!

Computerman;

I understand your point on Term insurance life (this is what I have personally). But can you tell me where in my post I am saying that it is bad? The point of this whole series was to describe the business side of it. I’m glad that Primerica is selling term insurance, but they are not the only one. Through my previous job, I have met with several life insurance agent from different company (in Canada) and they were all selling term life as well. So even though I believe it is right to sell Term most of the time, it doesn’t make it of an advantage for any company (products are still very similar from one company to another).

Mark,
as you can see, this series was written back in 2007… it’s not my fault if people keep writing about it my latest post on Primerica was the April’s fool, nothing to debate about.. I would write a similar post about another company but I though I had a much better chance to keep you reading and believe that is true for a few seconds because of the back of this blog.

I’m actually not for or against Primerica, I just believe that it is a specific business system where some people may be happy in it while some others might be very frustrated. I started this series because there was a huge difference between what I have been sold and the answer (from Primerica agents) I got back when I started asking question. I do not pretend that I hold the truth, I’m just giving my opinion (and perception) about this topic. This is what a blog is all about, right?

good luck with your business !

TFB

You guys still go back to cash value. Many of us sell mostly term. Maybe not 100% but when it’s needed or the client wants a perm product we have access to it. If your mindset is term only and a client wants a perm. product whose best interest are you considering? You see when you expound term only it’s about sales pure and simple.

As for computerman you do you, but you don’t know what you don’t know. Many of us who post have been inside Primerica and outside Primerica. You base your opinion on one side of the “debate” and one company. You still think everyone is selling cash value. Yes the market is huge for term and sure get yours, but there’s also the business side to consider. I can understand being loyal to the concept of BTID and helping people get out of debt, but why be so loyal to a company? The company isn’t loyal to you. Read the contract.

Computerman says..”That is because people are jealous of Primerica and have a need to put it down since a lot of the business we do is to REPLACE policies which Suze Orman, Bob Brinker and many others say is the BEST INSURANCE! … TERM LIIFE.

I never heard of Mr. Brinker but many of the others say shop carriers. that’s what we do as independents. Do you see any of them saying go to Primerica? Why. If you respect what they say so much about Term why don’t you suggest your clients shop carriers and policies? It’s because you only have one program to SELL.

Do you really think all of the PFS agents just own PFS Term? Some people may like the business side, but they know the difference between what’s good for the business side and what’s good for their own family.

No one is jealous of Primerica. Have you ever wondered why RVP’s or long term PFS people don’t or rarely post on some of the message boards? It’s because when they have they have been brought to task by facts. Not hype. The commissions are what they are. The agent agreement is what it is. etc. PFS has x amount of clients. PFS has been preaching BTID for years. The market has changed. Where are all the financially independent people that PFS has helped? With the economy as it is I would think now would be a great time to show the benefit of BTID and how many people PFS has helped.

As always. Hey Kool-Aid,,Hey Kool-Aid… You are independent contractors who some stake their financial future on a company that is on the block to be sold and many have no idea how that can effect their business because every time you hire someone or bring a client to PFS you are under the nonompete (If enforced in your state).

What happens to your block of business if PFS is sold? Yes your in business for yourself. Yes your bringing in business. Yes your hiring and training agents. Yes you are kept current on the pending sale. Yea right. But you sell Term 100% of the time. Keep drinking the kool-aid and at some point you will see there’s a business side.

From a business stand point ask yourself this. If you left PFS tomorrow what could you take with you? Granted you could still sell Term with other carriers (with no requirement to sell cash value) and offer investments, but from a business stand point of getting clients, recruiting and training, what could you take with you. You spent a lot of time and energy building with/for PFS. Now consider you. Yes it’s a business. Read your contract.

If you can live with it? More power to you.

Jealous of Priamerica, please!!!!

You stay with your 30-40% commissions on 1 company’s products and I will stay with my 10-15 companies that pay me 80-110% commissions on term, plus if a client needs or wants a permanent policy I have that option too. Like stated before, read you contract!!!!

Answer This great response.

I guess another way to look at this is to pretend for a second that you had no Agent insight with any company. You are really looking at this with fresh eyes and a pure 100% business oportunity to invest in. If you were presented with the clauses that PFS offers without the Alpha Male spin why PFS was better opportunity to invest into and to be fair without the Alpha Male spin why independents are better who would you really choose? BE HONESTat least to your self. I am not looking for angry Primericans on the war path defending their territory, I am looking for someone PFS agent or not logically looking at this as a truly business venture.

Would you invest into this business knowing the following statements?
1. Richard stated that selling your Primerica business you must have the ownership clause in effect before that can happen I believe it can be enacted 2 ways. 15 years in the business or becoming an SVP within 12 months of becoming an RVP. Plus it can only be sold to another Primerica business owner.
2. The non-compete clauses
3. Only one product as far as term insurance goes.
4.What happens if you seperate from Primerica for what ever reason. They sell, you quit or read the IBA you can be let go by either party for whatever reason. What about your clients?
5. Marketing material a lot of companys sent it to you for free.
6. Commission levels.
7. Giving up appointments to trainers.
8.Pressure of recruitment to promote. Yes I understand the importance of building your base shop. Their are companies that will promote you on personal production if you want to be only a personal producer as an independant agent. As you see I am not trying recruit anyone because I have not mentioned any company names just do an internet search you will find them like I did.

Again I will repeat the question without hype. What would be the best business decision for you as a business owner? If you can not be honest in this blog because of losing face you have to deal with that but I am not here to judge anyone only present my truthful opinion. In your heart be honest to your self.

If you have 100% happy with you Primerica business decision I will not tear you downin fact I will give you KUDO’s. Just keep doing the right thing.

I am not jealous of Primerica because if I was, I can join right? I am open to a better system I just know that I have not found one. My system is not 100% perfect but it is the best one that I found and it works for me. Now I must get back to my 52 pick up.

Good Luck guys

Re: no 1, I did some double checking. I was off. it takes much less effort and just you and one RVP below hitting a money mark.

But taking what you said in comparison.

1. Understand the ownership clause is important. Limiting point of sale is a neg (-1)
2. Non-compete clause. (-1)
3. If the product is customizable, one is fine. (0) – Neutral because it depends on the product
4. I manage my clients, but they were always clients of the companies their products are from. (0) – Face facts, they are clients to the company and you are just paid to take care of them.
5. Nothing is free. Hiding the costs vs making me accountable (and giving a write off). (+1)
6. Commissions. It’s more important to know the full structure including bonuses and not just upfront commissions. (0) – I’ve seen other companies with higher commissions, but the bonuses suck (HBW Comes to mind….In independent agent type firm).
7. With the right trainer, you never give up an appointment. (+1)
8. I’ll use a line from the cash value agents “Forced Building For Your Benefit.” (instead of savings). (+1)

Hmm, Primerica still comes out better.

LOL..HBW Suck.. The compensation is on the web site. Is PFS compensation on their web site? Did you consider series 6,63,65 and Fixed Products/Business? LOL…Forget all that. Just consider the Noncompete and who owns clients? LOL.. Back at cash value again…

HBW isn’t the end all, but to try and compare with what PFS has to offer? Please. Freedom verse captivity? Richard please don’t bring in HBW into this. You will have people doing research and that’s not in the best interest of PFS. Agents may not go to HBW, but they may go to other companies.

Consider this. Even if the bonuses at HBW were less and the agents make more can you say rule of 72? Try this. Go to the web site and view the testimonial.. Now for the person who is just looking to make some part-time income would it be in their best interest to go with a firm where they can make more with production or less?

What gets me is on one point you guys say it’s the mission and not the commissions. Yet now you say bonuses are a consideration? As for client ownership as an independent if my clients has a need for disability or even a med sup I can go out and contract with another IMO or a carrier directly and provide the product. The client is happy. I’m happy and my IMO is happy. What do you do if your client ask about med sups or has a family member who is considered impaired or will be highly table rated? I for got PFS agents are captive. yet they came intot the business to earn extra income. Yet PFS says NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. Agents are independent contractors, in most cases part-time while keeping their full-time employment joining PFS to make extra income.

Something just doesn’t look right. Let me put on my Kool-Aid Googles. Nope I still don’t see it. Comparing being captive and independent…LOL..

1. Primerica; http://www.primerica.com/public/

2. HBW: http://www.hbwinc.com/

Let people do their own comparison as individuals. There’s no need for any input on the HBW site. People can see everything for them self. Now what about the PFS site? What products do they offer. What is the compensation structure? Where can we see the agent agreement? Why don’t they post that information? HBW does. Yes you can even go to pipeline run some quotes and see the different carriers. Do you want to see the debt reduction program? Click on Events and spy on the webnar..

Shhhhhh get this. If an independent agent didn’t want to do business with one of the carriers they have the ability to go elsewhere. There are no requirements to use any carrier. So get this. If a CPA. Financial Planner, Attorney or whomever just wanted to offer let’s say Fixed/Indexed Annuities or Long Term Care to their clients they can contract with HBW just for that.

OK, PFS agents, we don’t know your names or who you are. Side by side. Apples to Apples. Take the emotion out of the equation. Knowing what you know now and having the ability to do some research. If you had to choose 1 or 2? Which would you choose?

Disclaimer: No one company is for all people.

Answer This, I looked at is as pure business, not as a Primerica agent. As requested.

When looking from a business stand point, it is important to know everything. When it comes to getting paid, that includes bonuses.

I have looked into HBW, up front, they pay better commissions on PERSONAL PRODUCTION.

If i consider just the non-compete and who owns the clients, it’s a negative. Then again, as I said before, THE COMPANY OWNS THE CLIENT REGARDLESS OF IF YOU ARE INDEPENDENT OR CAPTIVE. YOU ARE PAID TO MAINTAIN THEM. Salesmen don’t understand that.

I’ve done my research 10 times over. For me, and in my opinion, Primerica is the best option LONG TERM. No emotion involved.

Wrong Richard,

“THE COMPANY OWNS THE CLIENT REGARDLESS OF IF YOU ARE INDEPENDENT OR CAPTIVE.” is not true.

If you are a captive agent the company owns the client, if you are indepenent the agent owns the client. The client goes with me regardless with who I am appointed with and regardless of who I sell insurance too. If you are captive the client ALLWAYS stays with the COMPANY.

Jose, you guys say I’m drinking some nasty Kool-Aid, you may want to check yours. You obviously don’t understand how business works.

As a licensed agent, you represent the INSURANCE COMPANY not the client. Regardless of if you are captive or not. The client is a client of the INSURANCE COMPANY and you are paid to MAINTAIN the relationship. This distinction was made VERY CLEAR on the tests we take here in Texas.

Just because you can move them from one to another does not mean they are yours. Any new company you sign can just as easily add a non-compete clause to their contracts or something similar preventing you from moving the client away from them for a period of time.

Last I checked, this was insurance 101. At least it is here in Texas. Then again, I have heard Texas has a much more stringent requirement than other states/countries.

Richard says “Any new company you sign can just as easily add a non-compete clause to their contracts or something similar preventing you from moving the client away from them for a period of time.”

Just say NO. Take the book of business and your team and leave if they want to follow you. On another note, that’s why it’s important to read contracts. If a company inserts an option they do it for a reason. That’s why it should be a consideration that they expect to use the option. Such as having the option to raise rates. Sure you are representing the insurance company you write with, but you also have a responsibility to do the best job possible for the client.

As for not understanding how business works, we understand give and take.Give a way in for $99.00, but what do you give up? An agent under RVP sells a LTC policy and doesn’t earn renewals. ( Rule of 72) An agent can sell a PLPP program and doesn’t earn renewals. (Rule of 72) Why doesn’t PFS offer the PPL Identity Theft Plan? (Rule of 72) PFS doesn’t allow agents to market other products outside of PFS. (Rule of 72).. How much are people giving up by paying $99.00 and being captive?

Ok consider this. Above I mentioned the PPLP Legal protection plan. Has anyone one of the PFS agents considered the PPL compensation. Get this after 12 months PPL reps. have ownership. They earn renewals. Now consider the potential income lost by offering legal plans through PFS. Remember this is looked at from a business stand point. No emotion involved. PPL plans don’t require underwriting. No licensing required in most states and Canada to offer the Legal plans and there’s no licensing requirement to offer Identity Theft Plans nationwide and Canada.

You see outside of PFS you can build two businesses. If a PFS agent sells a client a PLPP but not an insurance policy. Now if the agent leaves they still can’t go back and sell that same former client a life policy. Why, because PFS still owns that client.

Now how is it better to be captive? Especially if the agent is part-time? When captive the company limits your business, being independent your business is only limited by your desires.

I really do not like the word “OWNS” I do not believe the company “OWNS” the client or the agent “OWNS” the client, I believe that the client “OWNS” the company. The owner of a policy has the control of policy in regards to whether they want to continue or discontinue the policy. They can fire the company and the agent at any time. If they find something better then they can pick up their marbles and play somewhere else. I as an independent can speak to my client at anytime.

It is a legal unilateral contract. The owner of the policy makes no promise to continue premium payments and if the premiums are paid in a timely manner, the company is bound to accept them and meet its obligations under the contract. So who owns who? The client “OWNS” the company.

Enough said. If you seperate from any company for what ever reason, do you have the right to inform your client that you have moved, found a better product for them or are you restricted because you had signed a non-compete contract? If you are captive then you have no rights and you are obligated by the contract that you had signed for a specific amount of time to make contact with the client or your downline or other people that you worked with from that company. I really do not understand putting your eggs all in one basket and then handing them away. MY clients are my clients that I have worked hard to make them my clients and I have gained their trust. They are my clients and my contacts. I want them to have the freedom to choose whatever policy or options they want and I want the freedom to be able to speak to them whenever I want to. If they wish to fire me it is their option and I do not want to be held by any non-compete clause if I decide to seperate from any company. If a company wishes to try and sneak a non-compete clause I have the freedom to go somewhere else.

I have a pretty good understanding of PFS commission structure, can someone explain to me what the bonuses are?
What about the cap 1500.00 cap on comissions? (+)or(-)

Does PFS still require you to “give up one of the legs or downlines” in order to promote at one level or at some level? If this is true does this sound like good business? Would that be a (+) or (-).

Since the part-time option is brought up, can you stay part-time at any level at PFS? (+) or (-). Do they require you to be full-time at some level? It’s your business and you are an independent contractor then you should have the right to work when you want to.

What about rollbacks? Is there rollbacks with PFS? (+) or (-)

Most PFS agents that I communicate to explain to me that giving up the contacts from the warm market is the price of doing business and the cost of training. The trainee signs up with the Primerica for $99.00 and does not have his license. So he cannot sell legally. But gives his trainer leads and witnesses the sale at the kitchen table and here is what goes down. E T H O R for a Training Visit

EXCITED
I’m really excited about my new career with Primerica Financial Services!

TRAINING
I’m going through training right now, and . . .

HELP
I need your help in order to get my certification.

OBSERVE
I have to observe 10 presentations in order to get certified.

REFER
I’d like to visit with you to show you and (spouse) what I’ll be doing and you can become a referral source for me.
Is ETHOR a (+) or (-)? For whom?The new person or the trainer?

Since you are an independent contract why could you not get your license first then you are licensed and if you want to split the commission so you get paid and your trainer gets paid?
I have also been told “I give up $1500, but get 30 sales from them. That means I get 7500 from it. (This is based on your statement of 25%, to be conservative.) And each of these sales they get 5 more referrals. That means they now have 150 warm leads.” This also means that you are feeding off your new guys. I would think that you would want to help the new people to stay motivated instead of feeding off them. You need to be a go-giver not always a go getter. Because in the long run they will make you money. Right? I guess Richard is the exception with the right trainer but really is there people like that or do they follow the New Agent Traning Fast Start Manuals. IN the last few years I have been contacted and they have tried to recruit me and when I ask them about the not receiving commisiions from my first warm market sales it is because it is the costs of training and because I have no license. They wanted me to be fully ready before I am licensed. Since I would have given my $99.00 to start would it we easier to get license, get trained, and split the commission and when I was ready to go on my own make the break and just do it?

RE: PPL’s Identity Theft Option. It can be added onto a PLPP account. It just has to go through a PPL’s agent. Of which, I do have one I refer clients to when they desire it. Same goes for medical insurance. I get nothing out of either of these arrangements except satisfaction of knowing my clients get taken care of.

Answer This, you throw around the Rule of 72 like it is apart of products, it is not. Rule of 72 simple applies to estimates on growth of money based on interest rates. NOT on products or sales of said product.

Regardless of being captive or not, only YOU can limit your desires. Saying a company can means you still have a job mentality. If the desire is there, anything is possible.

L Vegas, as I said before, there is no cap on commissions. I may not get it all up front, but I will receive my full commission on each sale.
Giving up a leg is the RVPs decision. The company has a guideline.
You have the right to work when and how you want to, When transitioning to RVP, it is expected that you have enough income coming it so you become “full time.” If you are unable to generate a “full time” income as an RVP, you don’t deserve the promotion.

Depends on your definition of rollbacks. If you mean demotions, you have to do something really stupid to have that happen. Although some RVPs will use that as punishment, it is not a recommended act.

My recruits only give up their warm market contacts if they quit and ONLY if they handed them over to begin with. Once my recruits are licensed, even is still in training, they sign and receive FULL commission. No split sale. As for not being paid until licensed, each trainer handles that differently. Some do pay training time, others do not.

As for easier, no telling. That $99 goes towards background checks, a pre-licensing class (about $400 here in TX), the $100 for the test gets refunded upon passing, the $800 for the securities can be paid for BY THE COMPANY within as little as 2 months. 1 month if you push it. That’s a decent amount of cash outlay by the company for you spending $99. P&C license costs get refunded on first closed referral. I believe I also got a refund for my PLPP license.

If you call me the exception, than my whole office is as well.

Bottom line is this. Times have changes since some of you were in PFS, and things are getting better. MUCH better. We can argue this till death and still not come to an understanding. I’m tired of repeating myself over and over and hitting the same subjects which are purely semantic in reality.

TFB, do us all a favor and disable comments on these older posts. They are not adding any value. I believe there is a setting that allows you to disable comments on posts older than x amount of days.

Richard. As for my comments about eh rule of 72. You say you refer out the Identity theft business, well consider how much you are potentially giving away if the PPL rep earned $100.00 a month, or whatever. (Rule of 72) Don’t you educate your clients to free up money to invest? Now considering PFS forbids you to earn from that business or whatever business you refer out how much potential savings are you losing because PFS says no? I can understand if you just didn’t want to offer the service, but they forbid it.

From my days at PFS there was no requirement that anyone give up their warm list or take anyone to see friends and family before they are licensed. People just didn’t know it.

TFB please keep the thread going. I think knowing that inside PFS the product availability is much different when considering offering legal products than dealing directly with Pre-paid Legal. PFS teaches bypass the middle man. Well in this instance it seems to earn more from marketing legal products it might be a better option to bypass PFS (middle man) and contract directly with Pre-Paid Legal. Independents can do that and market all the Legal products. Doing it through PFS your limited, which limits your potential earnings. If i’m wrong please let me know.

Wow!

Still keep on going and going and going…I understand TFB that this is and ANCIENT blog topic from way back then..but you got to change the scenery once in a while..geez folks have you all nothing better to do likfe,…hmmm build your buisness…that’s if you really have business to run..anyway lets ends this endless back and forth debates and give each other all a happy farewell and HALLELUYAH ending! Thanks you all and all the best!

Richard YOU ARE THE STUD!!! I totaly agree with you so lets end this and stay focus on whats important…building our teams and helping evry families and individuals out there who are crying out for our help!!

Bless, Bless y’all!

Answer This, you are right about one thing, the product offered through PFS is different than going through PPL. It has an ADDITIONAL 2 titles of protection OVER AND ABOVE what the top PPL plan offers. For the same price.

Whew. I am running out so this will be brief. Richard if I correctly remember the PLPP has something about helping with the Soc. sec. and probate? When the plan was implimented with PFS it was done so people could get an Estate Plan done with some “added features. Yet back then I think the plan was $25.00 a month. The thing is if you look at the trial benefit time a similar plan at PPL directly would cost $16.00 a month..Now compare the PPL $25.00 a month plan with the PFS plan. If a person has to use the trial benefit how much is it worth with each company plan? They both offer a Will, Living Will and Durable Power Of Attorney. Hey I could be wrong and the PLPP plan has changed over the years, but I doubt it. On another note. When I was there we were able to sign up groups. Consider someone doing one group a week of say 5 or 10 employees, then compare that with a Life sale. No underwriting involved. No license in most states and in your state of Texas the license is only $30.00. So why can’t you just hire people who wish to market that program? Does PFS still require a person to at least become life licensed in a period of time or they can be terminated?

To see the Pre-Paid Legal plan you can go directly the site. http://www.prepaidlegal.com now of course there’s no place to see the Primerica Legal Protection Plan…”Rule of 72″…Now how else can a client use the extra $9.00 a month saved by going directly with PPL?
Now to increase your clients funds to save/invest you can now refer them to your PPL contact for the Legal Plan also.

in order to pay the field force Primerica has to price their products accordingly. I’m not saying it’s good or bad it’s business and they have the right to run their business as they see fit.

Excuse me. I have to go…

Actually, it mirrors the $25 plan with a few minor exceptions. 15 Hours less trail time each year. After 5 years, only 35 hours less accumulated. Offers Probate Benefits and a 5% contingency discount that NONE of the PPL plans offer.

The only negative thus far I have found, is the ID Shield is the only add on currently allowed. The other rides can not be added. That being said, if someone desires them, I do have an agent I can forward them to.

As I have said before, I will gladly, and willingly, give up my commission if I believe it is better for the client.

Please see page 24 at https://www.prepaidlegal.com/pdf/21301.pdf

Probate benefit? If the client has a current Estate Plan done with their provider Law Firm what is the big advantage of the probate benefit and is it worth an extra $9.00 a month?

Something else to consider is as PFS reps. May have a PLPP plan. They need to check if their schedule “C” is covered with the IRS benefit. (See page They may wish to consider adding a small business rider if available to cover the schedule “C’…

Now to get to my “Rule of 72″. Let’s say a person gets to the director level. A $26.00 a month plan ($25.00 Family Plan + $1.00 for the Legal Shield) Will payout $150.00.. Within 24-48 hours with direct direct deposit. (Page 32) selling two plan a month is $300.00..Rule of 72? Add the $9.95 ID Theft Rider and the compensation is $155.47..That’s not bad for a unlicensed product. (In most states)

So PFS will bring people in at $99.00 but in the whole picture what is the potential cost from being captive? From a business stand point outside PFS a person can still do BTID. If they wanted to market Legal plans, They could market all the PPL plans available and earn residuals.

As for the trial times, Take a look at the pre-trial times. Most cases don’t go to trial. So consider $200.00 an hour for Attorney Pre-Trial time. So there is a big difference between when comparing the two $25.00 plans…

Now get this. If you sell a PLPP to a client and 5 years later they want to switch to a Pre-Paid Legal plan they will have to start over again accumulating the Trial and Pre-Trial hours. Now ask yourself why does the $25.00 a month Primerica Legal Protection Plan which is similar to the $16.00 a month Pre-Paid Legal Standard plan cost $9.00 more per month?

In my opinion being captive just has too many restrictions. The more you guys post the more information comes out. Somebody is going to pay. It’s either going to come from the agent or the client of PFS.
$99.00 with the ability to be captive and under a potential noncompete.

One more thing. For verification purposes some of the information was taken from http://www.tagppl.com

****Postings are not to recruit PFS agents. They are for information purposes only. You as a business person have the right to run your business as you see fit. You are not an employees of Primerica as I am not an employee of any other financial services organization i’m contracted with. Currently i’m with two and looking at another to Market Funeral Trust.. One I actively recruit and team build in and the others are just for personal production for niche markets. Independence allows options.

Depending on the cost of setting up the Estate plan, it would take about 15 to 30+ years to recoup the $9/mo for the UNLIMITED UNCONTESTED Probate benefit.

Having seen my own family go through it several times over the years, that $9/mo would have saved them tens of thousands. For Joe the Plumber, it is better to spend $9/mo since most do not have the money or assets available to cover the cost of setting a trust to protect it.

My biggest concern when I sell a client a PLPP plan, is to make sure they get a Will established. What they do with it after that is their business. I encourage them to keep it, but if they don’t want it, they wont keep it.

I’m not an Attorney so I don’t want anyone to take what I say as giving legal advice. From my understanding a Trust will/can bypass probate. As we know not everyone has the need for a trust. Now if they and their Provider Attorney do a good job and do annual updates probate shouldn’t be a major issue.

Both plans offer a Will, Living Will and Durable Power Of Attorney. As I stated above a major difference is the Pre-trial times of the $25.00 plans. From what I remember the PPL plan offers more pre-trial time covered by their plan. So consider $200.00 an hour for an Attorney’s Pre-Trial time and see which plans offers more coverage.

If you have a PLPP plan does it cover schedule “C” for the tax benefit? If a PFS rep. has a legal plan they should have coverage of their business tax return. If it’s not in the plan, why not? I’m sure PFS expects their agents to own the plan and I can assume they understand the different tax responsibilities each agent will have compared to a client who is not in the business or have any other income except from employment.

A PFS agent can pay the same amount and add a small business rider from PPL that will give them schedule “C” coverage. Plus get more pre-trial coverage if needed. Two similar plans so why did PFS offer reduced trial times? (Rule of 72) There’s a possible savings of $9.00 a month that can be used elsewhere.

This will most likely be my last post because everything that needs to be said has been said. My last point when comparing the Legal plans between what Primerica offers and whet can be had when getting a plan directly from Pre-Paid Legal. Fro those who don’t know Pre-Paid legal along with Primerica designed a private lable product for Primerica agents to market. The Primerica Legal protection Program has a cost of $25.00 a month. A similar plan marketed from Pre-Paid Legal directly has a cost of $16.00 a month. That’s a difference of $9.00.

So here’s something I failed to mention. Getting the plan from Pre-Paid Legal directly and adding identity theft coverage for $9.95 will give a client the legal coverage AND identity theft Coverage. Now this is a comparison for the plans offered in the U.S. I don’t know what the Canadian plan covers for PFS, but the PPL plan is pretty extensive.

I can understand the loyalty of PFS agents, but agents are independent contractors. Al the hype sounds good, but at some point if you are really look at what’s best for your clients and what’s being marketed as what’s best for the company. Hey i understand business is business and Primerica has the right to run their business as they see fit, but knowing what you know now do many of you still really think it’s client first? from my pint of view if given the choice I would offer my clients the PPL legal plan and the ID theft plan for $25.95 a month rather than the stand alone $25.00 a month Legal plan from PFS. “We do what’s right 100% of the time” Does that sound familiar? Do the right thing.

Wow, I have spent the last two hours reading through everything. You guys know your stuff! Please don’t stop this post. It can help people like me who have spouses that have totally bought into Primerica.

My husband will be the first to admit that I am smarter than he is. He, however, has more motivation than anyone I’ve seen. We are different- I come from an educated background, him, a hard-working background.

We have actually talked about divorce because from the get-go, I have felt the “constrictiveness” of PFS. It has turned into so many arguments, it’s unbelieveable. We are on the brink of losing our house, and going bankrupt, yet he feels that “He’s the one.” The next Hector La Marque.

What did your wives think of your job when you were with PFS? (Don’t know if you have spouses or not) Any advice? I’m hoping that eventually… even if it takes years… he will see the light; that PFS is too constricting. If they get bought out or change their pay structure, he is lost. Especially since he didn’t have any insurance background to begin with, he is totally green in the insurance industry.

I don’t know. Any advice?

After reading all these posts, and you still believe that Primerica is best for you and more importantly your clients then you are brainwashed. If you deny that statement then you are just dishonest, end of discussion.

Answer This, that $9/mo for Probate could save families multiple thousands in Probate Fees.

On The Brink, my spouse is quite supportive of me. Granted I am no poster child of how to run a PFS business, but I am also very motivated in all of my businesses.

Most of the “constrictiveness” that is abound is due to Citi. At least from what I can see. Citi will soon not be an issue for PFS. Again, from what I can see. After all, they are reported to be having over an $8 Billion profit this quarter.

I am not saying some of it was not there from before the Travelers/Citibank Merger, just that it heavily increased afterward.

Insurance is not that hard to understand. Like most fields dealing with sales, its the terminology that throws people off. My wife, with NO formal education, understands it just fine. My clients learn the basics in a night. What I am getting at is, your educational background has no baring on what you are capable of. Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki[sp!!]. His “Rich Dad”, if I recall correctly, was a high school drop out yet amassed a fortune in real estate. His “Poor Dad” was a college graduate that lived pay check to pay check barely getting by.

You are not loosing your house because of PFS, you are loosing your house because, combined, you do not make enough to make payments. If getting a second job is not an option for you, and he is not making enough in PFS, then he needs to go out and either get a Part Time or Full Time job. I know several in my office alone that currently make over $100k/yr, but when they started, they had to get PT jobs.

For all you know, he could be the next Hector La Marque, Mike Sharpe, or Larry Weidel. Then again, he could also be the next wash out. Only time will tell.

My advice to you, if you love him, truly love him, then support him. If PFS is not for him, he has to find out on his own. If you are truly that close to bankruptcy, then tell him to get a PT/FT job. If you have considered divorce because of a career choice, go seek marriage counseling, there maybe a deeper problem.

My wife and I have lost 2 houses, lived paycheck to paycheck, kicked out of a town, and have considered divorce multiple times. PFS has never been an issue. The only issue we have had, was always money related. We chose to stick together and support each other. We are still not in the best of shapes, arguably worse than you are, but we support each other which makes it bearable. She supports me in PFS full well knowing I could get 3 times, or more, the pay elsewhere, because it makes me happy. And that is enough for her.

You both need to see it from each others perspective. If he understands yours, then go on appointments with him, ask his uplines those questions you have, and don’t stop till you get the answers. Just keep in mind, they may not be the answers you want.

Also doing some Estate planning along with the Provider Attorney can possibly save some Probate fees especially if a trust is a consideration.
In my opinion the better way to go would be to get the PPL plan for $16.00 a month. Add the identity Theft plan for $9.95 for a total of $25.95 a month and do some Estate Planning with the Provider Law Firm along with periodic updates. I don’t know too much about the Legal plan that PFS may offer in Canada if they do offer one at all so I won’t comment on it. A Canadian legal plan from PPL can be viewed on their web site.

Hey Mrs Onda brink, I was curious on my read of your testimonial..wow!

When My dad first started PFS he was already making more that 70K a year and my mom more than 30K both where full time but they found a way and manage in a few short years to totally replace their income..fire their bosses and make over 120K/year with PFS..no boss..no time constraints…no pay -cuts…no lay offs..

Now in PFS their always together and supporting each other having more freedom of time with us their children and more money than they had before…dont get me wrong in the beginnin my mom had her issues specially when it came to money…but she new my dad was sick and tired of his JOB “Just over Broke” life so she decided to supported him instead of tearing him down just like the rest of the world was doing..knowing if he made it ..then our whole family would benefit and our lives changed forever…and thats one way how you should look at the way u support your spouse…dont you know his trying and fighting for your famlily financial freedom..anyway dont take my word for it..find out yourself like what Richard said.

P.s. Any man’s name worth remembering in history..never came without hardship and sacrifice!

Hope that helps
God Bless you and your husband and your family!

Good luck!

On The Brink. don’t get me wrong. For some people Primeica is a good place to be. It’s not easy keeping up with industry and market changes. What attracted me to PFS was the crusade. I was shown a cash value policy and then shownt the Buy term And Invest The Difference and then told we were the only company doing what’s right. I was told we (PFS) had the best products and he best opportunity bar none. Well after doing some research a i said that wasn’t totally correct.

You see beyond all the hype it’s business. PFS has their products and their target market. Can you become wealthy at PFS? Yes you can, but to do it you have to sellout to the system. it’s not about doing what’s right for anyone, it’s about working their target market and recruit, recruit, recruit. Put the blinders on and follow the system. Work the system and work the numbers. Knowing what I know now, as for me I just couldn’t do it. The kool aid just don’t match the mission. For those who work with PFS, i wish them the best, but if we meet across the kitchen table i will do may best to blow their doors off with facts. Not hype.

Hi guys!

Been away for a while but glad to see everyone still here!
So what’s new?

Independents own their books of business and agency Richard (we can and do incorporate that’s one of the differences in ownership).
Things are not really getting better there from what I see Richard. That is what they want you to think but time will tell. Now I ask you… Does it hurt to be ready for an unexpected change?
You are an insurance agent. You make a living telling people to prepare just in case, right?
Are you prepared, just in case?

Like angry pre-divorce couples when they get potential home buyers, the ‘everything is great’ thing is just a front with a purpose.

Highest level hierarchy leaders are rumored to have signed a non-disclosure document. A meeting may or may not have taken place last week. So those that can tell you the truth are gagged and well rewarded for their silence. To add to it you may not believe credible information because of this disinformation thing going back and forth (a perfect smoke screen).

Look buddy I like your conviction but please be careful and be ready just in case. Know your options.

Even if things hit the fan the “only” thing that would suck about being there is that your clients and agents (essentially your whole business) go bye-bye as per non-compete. So it is worth it to have your own business disaster policy so to speak.

You can always move companies but imagine not being able to contact your old clients?
Starting over from scratch?

All I can tell you is that if such document exists that I could not post what it says here due to insider trading regulations. It may outline what will happen and how important it is to keep quiet so that agents remain loyal to the end. Remember that a non-core asset can be allowed to wind-down (die). Remember that the in-force contracts can be sold and agency can be shut down.
Investigate carefully, read my words carefully.
IBA basic agreement clause 10 can be used.

Heck if there was a future there why would I be here?
If there were better products, training, system, compensation or ownership do you really think I would be here just to be a contrarian?
You are a bright guy ok. Have a plan just in case. It can never hurt you to be prepared. It is a concept you teach as it is.

The good news is after all is done you will be much better in my opinion. Better prices, better products, better information and better everything. So do your thing but don’t go outside without an umbrella in your trunk .
Fair enough?

RR, I bet you are hoping that Primerica fails.

The higher ups did sign NDA’s due to insider trading laws. I’ve spoken face to face with those that were in those meetings. They did not revel anything (of course).

And again, it is NOT your book of business. It is your CONTACT LIST. The companies you put them pays you to maintain it. That is all. I can incorporate as well. Heck, Bobby Buisson’s company was on the top 20 list of insurance companies a couple years ago for amount term polices put in force (or something like that). He is a higher up in Primerica. Primerica was also on that list. So if I can’t incorporate like you say, why was he on that list?

Listen, the training and information I get are from people who have been in this industry for 35+ years doing what is right. I’ll believe them over any day. I know with out a shadow of a doubt that Primerica is STILL strong and is growing STRONGER.

As a backup plan, I have yet to find a company that is better than Primerica that has enough ethics and morals to do what is right. I’ve been turning down offers from companies offering me double and triple the commissions because their values are around sales and people who can afford “professional salesmen advice.” NOT around people who are barely living paycheck to paycheck, the backbone of this country, the ones who need it the most.

You keep doing what you are doing, and in another 15-30 years, watch those companies you can choose to do business with dwindle from about the 1200 now to less than 600-800 because they can’t compete. After all, there were more than 2000 30 years ago.

Thanks for all your advice. Richard, how long have you been with PFS? Does your wife still like it? I’m curious if she’s joined too. My husband keeps pressuring me to join but I just feel uncomfortable, and it keeps adding tension between us. I’m starting to feel “okay” with him doing it- if he likes it- but for whatever reasons I still have my reservations. He’s an all-or-nothing guy, and has thrown his whole heart and soul into it, and I’d just hate for him to walk away crushed later if it doesn’t work for him like it’s worked for so many people he says he’s seen be successful at it.

OTB,
I’ve been associated with Primerica since 10/2001. 10 months after Brandon Neil. Your husband should know who he is if you don’t. Needless to say, I haven’t had his success yet, but I haven’t put in his effort either.

Chances are you have your reservations because he hasn’t “made it” yet. My wife was the exact same way back in ‘01. And she had them for 6 years. It took me that long to start making progress with all other things going on. Once progress was being made, she started warming up to the idea. To be honest, she was my third recruit in the business.

She still supports me to this day and knows this will be how we create our future. What ever it will be. She supports Primerica 100% even knowing what else is out there.

If you have your reservations and don’t want to join, then don’t. Make sure he knows that for now you are uncomfortable but may change later when things progress. As with any endeavor though, the only way to fail is to quit.

Assuming he fully believes in everything Primerica stands for, then it is only a matter of time. If it makes you feel any better, my 2 direct RVPS (mine than his) don’t have college educations, one of them never had a job. Both are hillbillies to the core (the stereo type to the T). Mine makes an average of 150k – 200k personally. The other averages 200k – 300k.

Brandon Niel is 29 and just passed $1m/yr. Youngest in the company. Some people do it in 6 years, others take 20. The point, he may take time, but he could be the one to change his and your life forever.

Something I did forget to mention, go to the Partner’s meeting (assuming his office does them). Ask your questions to the other partners and get their responses.

That is what they are their for.

Awesum and inspiring words Rich…I can see that your a great leader and a good person @ heart. You remind me so much like my father and that renforces my WHY im doing this…thank you and who knows if I fight hard enough and long enough..I might just have a shot @ beating Brandon…lol! God Bless him for leading the ways…his the proof that you can make it happen if you believe and work hard enough!

Anyways OTB which you all the best your his partner let him know where you stand..but also let him know that you got his back…and that will mean more to him than you know…

God Bless

Ok let me get this straight. PFS agents are independent contractors. The “higher Ups” have some information they can’t or won’t share with the other reps. who are independent business people. What if what they know can have a material effect on your business interest. How can you honestly recruit others into the company or on your team knowing some information is being withheld?

You guys just don’t get it. Times are changing. Check it out.
http://www.hbwinfo.com/

How can you compete with this for a recruit or a client? So you see PFS isn’t an issue.

The higher ups have information that can not be shared due to insider trading and NDAs.

Times are changing. Primerica is going back to independent (Before Citi). Just like before HBW and WFG. Which BOTH were results of the Citi/Consumer Credit deals. People left (or got fired) and tried to develop companies that could compete. They believed they had a better system. In the last 10-15 years, with there “better” system, have been unable to match the growth of PFS.

I’ve looked through HBW’s commission structure. It is geared towards salesmen, not businessmen.

HBW is not an issue for me.

I’m not trying to convince you that HBW is for you. Stay where you are. PFS is perfect for you. For whatever reason the information can or can not be shared the agents are independent business people. Take On The Brink as an example. Her husband is staking their financial future on PFS without certain information. As a business person why is it others can make business plans that may effect their family and Mr Brink can’t due to his contract level? Insider trading or not the higher ups have an advantage. They can shield their business interest. The common PFS agent can’t make the same business decisions they can make. Man that kool-aid is strong. LOL… They that on a regular job and all hell will break loose.

PFS is going independent? Does that mean they may offer other products and carriers? Just not having a noncompete and freedom is in my opinion a better system. Did you notice the ability to run and request quotes on the sites? Just that feature can give agents the ability to do business on a nationwide basis it they so choose. Yes even part-time. Combine that with a tele-app..

HBW’s commission structure is geared toward the goal of the individual. Some people don’t wish to recruit and build a team so they don’t have to. Some people wish to build a team and they have that option. People can market any product they wish which opens up the opportunity to bring in other professionals. The point is there are alternatives to PFS and people are going to find out.

HBW may not be an issue for you, but for the people you try to recruit and the clients you wish to sell the service HBW can provide may be an issue. HBW is just an option. The pro PFS posters are looking now..At some point they are going to ask themself where is their loyalty? To the company and their RVP, or their family, friends and clients?Stay where you are.

“And again, it is NOT your book of business. It is your CONTACT LIST. The companies you put them pays you to maintain it.”

If you are a true independent agent then it is your book of business. A new agent that has the capital can buy your book of business from you when you hang it up. Someone above mentioned loyalty to PFS vs. loyalty to client and friends. Well as an independent you might put a husband with company A and b/c the wife has some concerning situation you might have to put her with company B. Company B may have the best deal for her situation, it may cost a lot. Once she corrects it, I could put her with Company A or which company does the best job for her at that time.

Some of these guys are making some valid points. 1` more valid point. PFS term is expensive compared to waht is available. I see your point though, building an agency vs. doing what is right for the client. I met RR, and just like I RR hopes PFS never goes out of business. It look like some of these guys are trying to recruit you so they are being passive.

But you mentioned “ethics & morals” well we know who does not have any.

Good Luck to All, Once again I hope PFS continues to grow an flourish.

2thBW. Ok, lets use your terminology. You are STILL PAID TO MAINTAIN THEIR clients. You can take the NUMBERS of the people with you but you may not be able to move to a new carrier. Either way, they are clients of the insurance company that we are responsible for maintaining. The sooner you realize that, the better.

And the second comment you posted (that is not displayed that I can see) is like “It’s my way or the highway. If you don’t think like me you are wrong.” Sounds like my wife on PMS. I know it is not because she has more common sense than that.

I have loyalty to my family and friends (my clients become my friends). That is WHY I stay with PFS. You say PFS is more expensive, EVERY QUOTE I HAVE RAN SHOWS PFS BEING AMOUNT THE CHEAPEST. Yes their are companies that our cheaper. I never dispute that. I even tell my clients UP FRONT before I even leave the first time. And no, I NEVER sell on the first visit (unless the client requests…which many have of late).

AT, I have never considered HBW to be competition. I still don’t. There whole structure is traditional insurance. Focus on taking care of the agent and have the client pay it. How do you think all those services traditional agents get for free are paid? The Client pays for it through the policy. Id’ rather pay for it to reduce their expenses.

You ask me how I can recruit knowing that the head office are making day to day decisions that affect me without my consent. Will, how do you do it knowing that HBW’s main insurance company (AIG) is making decisions without asking you? Or HBW is doing the same? When I had my retail business (since switched to services only), my warehouse made material decisions every day that affected my business. I didn’t worry about it. They made those decisions to keep themselves afloat and I just ran with the punches. Didn’t affect my bottom line or clients one bit.

Let me ask you this. If you knew for certain that tomorrow, if you headed to work, you would be shot dead in the office. However, you also knew that if you DIDN’T go, you would be fired and be jobless for 18months. Would you still go? You go, you die, you stay home, you lose your income for the next 18 months. That is a material decision that affects your family.

In OTB’s case, he is making a decision that affects them. In 5 years, she could look back and tell her husband “thank you for not listening and going all out.” The reverse could also be true. The point: Why worry about the future when you live in the present? He made the choice for a better life for his family and is acting on it. It may be the right one, it may not. Only time will tell. He is already ahead of 90% of the people in the world by making the decision and taking action. I wish them luck regardless of what happens.

BTW, I hope one day legislature gets its head out of its ass and removes the law preventing the feds (or anyone for that matter) from conducting an investigation on the industry. They didn’t want the truth to be reviled again like in 79. You know the report I bet. The one stating how much of a screw job Cash Value life insurance (STILL) is.

There’s no requirement for me to use American General. There’s no requirement for me to only use HBW as a marketing organization. I am free to come and go as I please. What are your options if a client goes online and reads some of this stuff on message boards? What other carrier do you have in your tool box? What if your recruit has an issue with rollbacks? What if your recruit has an issue with giving up a leg or having a full-time requirement to advance to RVP? What are your options?

HBW is in the business and they think of their business interest first and foremost. So do I. It’s great to help people, but there’s also the business side..

I myself don’t wish anything bad for PFS. one issue I have is people have no clue what to compare PFS with. So when they go to an opp. meeting and hear the kool-aid speech they think PFS is the only game in town. well it’s not.

HBW is a BTID company first. Listen to the conference calls and you will hear it from the CEO’s own mouth. just so you know the cash value of today isn’t the same cash value of yesterday. Some do have guarantees.

Richard on April 11th, you wrote, “As a licensed agent, you represent the INSURANCE COMPANY not the client. Regardless of if you are captive or not. The client is a client of the INSURANCE COMPANY and you are paid to MAINTAIN the relationship. This distinction was made VERY CLEAR on the tests we take here in Texas.”

My source Noble CE , “Agent vs. Broker
Insurance salespeople are generally referred to as insurance agents. In the technical sense, there is, however, a distinction between an insurance agent and an insurance broker:
1. Agent: A life insurance salesperson who represents
an insurance company. In some cases, the agent is an employee of the insurance company.
2. Broker: In insurance, a broker is a salesperson
who represents the client in finding insurance coverage from any of several insurance companies and who has no exclusive contract requiring that all the business first be offered to any particular company.”

I know what you are saying Richard I read it myself many times myself. But you have misinterpreted what you read. The insurance company does not have an employee that goes and meets the client. The agent is usually the sole contact to the client. It is said that we represent the company because we (the agent ) give the client the facts, the application, and deliver the policy. No company can add a non compete clause either, where did you get that?

Are you making things up? What are you talking about traditional companies having the client pay for it? Have you compared PFS’s term rates to other term rates? Everyone besides you knows that your term is competively priced. That is why I used the handle “2thebrainwashed” not saying you have to think like me.

Here is something for you and others like you Richard. Your company love guys like you. That don’t question anything, just believe everything that they tell you. You claim you compared quotes then name the companies.

AT: What are my options if they go online and read? I TELL them to and to write down questions. I even tell them what is out there before they get online. If my recruits have issues, I deal with them on a case by case business.

And if HBW was a TRUE BTID company, why are there cash value policies that can be sold? Why do the policies you sell from the many carriers typically only over a “re-qualify for term or convert to cash” option?

And I have seen the cash value of today. You’re right it is different. It is more of a screw job than back then. Even with guarantees. I can’t wait for that damn law to get repealed and the industry to be re-investigated.

2BT: You missed the next step for the broker. Once the broker has found the company, then become like any other agent and represent the company and no longer the client. You just shop first then sell. Companies can add non-compete clauses if they so choose. Many are just hurting so bad to stay in the industry they choose not too. Average company takes 7 years to turn a profit from one insurance sale. A non-compete would most insurance companies.

It’s called switching hats. You may start out as one but end with another. Once you find that company for the client, you ARE a representative of THAT company and thus an AGENT.

I know term is competitively priced. Companies will adjust rates and fees to covers costs and win business. So if the agent is not paying for things that the company gives them, where is the money coming from to pay for it? The debt they must incur to pay for it or the client that is the only real source of income? They lower the price to compete while reducing profit margins and incurring more debt. They raise rates to increase the reserves and pay down the debt. It’s a vicious cycle.

And frankly, I do question EVERYTHING. Assuming I don’t makes you an ass. (Assume = Ass out of U and Me). Yes childish, but I keep feeling like I’m talking with stubborn children.

I’m no idiot either. Your handle wasn’t a way to say we don’t have to think like you, it was an indirect attack against people who DON’T think like you or the rest of the industry (PFS).

HBW is a Financial Services marketing Organization. They are not an insurance company. The agents can contract with many diffferent companies and market their products. There is no requirement for anyone to sell any cash value policy.

If a company did require a noncompete to contract with them there is an option of just going to another carrier. You sell Term, we sell term. As for companies and fees consider your compensation structure. As has been pointed out before there’s a reason agents start out at the commission levels that they do at PFS. There’s a reason certain products don’t pay renewals while if you contracted outside of PFS you would be paid renewals on basically the same products.

Now Richard. You say ” If the agent is not paying for things that the company gives them, where is the money coming from to pay for it?” How can you argue a company can offer lower rates, free brochures and software against having higher rates and making agents purchase software and brochures? Cmon even you would have to admit that’s a kool-aid argument. LOL.

Wow, Richard I meant your term isn’t competively priced. But I noticed that is the only question you answered. The rest of your post is gibberish (if that is a word). For instance, you just wrote, “You missed the next step for the broker. Once the broker has found the company, then become like any other agent and represent the company and no longer the client. You just shop first then sell. Companies can add non-compete clauses if they so choose. Many are just hurting so bad to stay in the industry they choose not too. Average company takes 7 years to turn a profit from one insurance sale. A non-compete would most insurance companies.”

If that is true which it isn’t, why wouldn’t these so called companies put in a non compete clause for 7 years or until they turn a profit? I asked earlier what companies have you compared your term to? You dodge the question. I never even seen a non compete clause, it is practically non existent and I am appointed with numerous carriers. The reason you guys have the non compete b/c most of you guys at pfs aren’t idiots just “brainwashed”. Sooner or later some of the you guys leave and go elsewhere. That non compete is to scare you guys into not replacing your old PFS business.

So if I have a client with company A b/c of a issue the client has to take care of and once it is a non issue I move them to company B within let’s say 3 yrs., I am representing the company. Is that what you really think, Richard?

Richard you also wrote, “I know term is competitively priced. Companies will adjust rates and fees to covers costs and win business. So if the agent is not paying for things that the company gives them, where is the money coming from to pay for it? The debt they must incur to pay for it or the client that is the only real source of income? They lower the price to compete while reducing profit margins and incurring more debt. They raise rates to increase the reserves and pay down the debt. It’s a vicious cycle.”

Yeah, Richard you are sort of right. But what you are talking about only proves that you are wrong. Companies have only recently raised rates and it has been so minute compared ot the last 15 years of term life premiums being reduced. But refer to “Answer This” posts. My marketing brochures, software, access to the companies websites are still free of charge. Have they raise the rates on your brochures?

I apologize if I hit a nerve. I only attack the ones that have been told the truth and still believe the hype. I stand by my statements RIchard Hancock. I am through with you, it is like beating a dead horse. I wonder are you an agent or employee for the company. Because if you are an employee good thing you weren’t one of the ones laid off at the beginning of the year. But that is write your company is doing just fine.

AT: Primerica is also a marketing company, or did you forget that? PFS just happens to own it’s own Life Insurance company instead of depending on others and having to take what they are willing to give.

Nobody gets special treatment in PFS. EVERYONE starts at the bottom and has to earn their way up. It’s a fact of life. If given a position, it will always be rumored as to whether they earned it or not.

You really are a salesman aren’t you? Nothing is for free and is paid for somewhere. If you, the agent, is not paying for it, the ONLY other place it can come from is from the client in the form of premium. In order to get business, many companies will cut premium in hopes of making it up in mass sales. Game consoles are typically sold this way. That is not a Kool-Aid argument, it is fact.

2BT: You must have been drinking your own kool-aid. Every comparison I have done, PFS stays competitive and is usually within $5 – $10 a month of the lowest for a better product. As to where I went, any quote engine online. I didn’t shop one company, I shopped several. Price to value, PFS wins.

As a broker, it is your responsibility to shop around. Once you have found a company, you become an agent of said company. I could not have made that more clear. Our brochures are offered at cost. If costs go up, so does the price. Plain and simple.

And you haven’t hit a nerve, I just can’t believe the kool-aid is that strong over there. You call me brainwashed yet you can’t understand simple business concepts. You keep selling that shit you have, I’ll keep replacing it.

BTW, it is “right” not “write”. I knew the truth, I ignored the hype. I have never heard so much (except maybe from Microsoft) as I have heard from the “independent agents.” If it truly better over there, why can you guys STILL not compete fairly? Why am I still finding people that have been lied by “the better agents?” Why are there still so many people that NEED help not getting it?

The answer is simple, you are more concerned with the “What’s In It For Me” factor than the “What’s better for the client” mentality. I pity you, but even that is too much.

I just grabbed the original application out of my files. Why do I have the original application? Because I own my clients. In April, I delivered $750k 20yr. term policy for a 47yr. old school teacher. Premiums $96 a month. With your company Richard it would of cost him $119/mo. That’s if got the best rate. Explain to me what your policy have that justifies a $23+ discrepancy.

The same reason I find clients that have been lied to by agents from your company and the industry as well. They don’t know the business.

Richard: “You must have been drinking your own kool-aid. Every comparison I have done, PFS stays competitive and is usually within $5 – $10 a month of the lowest for a better product. As to where I went, any quote engine online. I didn’t shop one company, I shopped several. Price to value, PFS wins.”

Name a company Richard. What company’s term you replaced, who term has no value compared to your company?

Richard please consult with your RVP. At one time i’m not sure about now, but RVP’s at their option could start people at different commission levels. Everyone did not have to start at the bottom level. That would work with a green agent, but if your going after an experienced agent to add to your team, that won’t fly.

Richard ask ” And if HBW was a TRUE BTID company, why are there cash value policies that can be sold? Why do the policies you sell from the many carriers typically only over a “re-qualify for term or convert to cash” option?”

BTID is a concept. Different carriers have different products for different markets. In life things happen. As we know people will buy a term policy and not save the difference or a life event like Divorce, Loss of a job, health issues, etc. can eat away at any savings plan. So if at some time the client knows they will need coverage longer than anticipated they have the option to convert to a perm. plan to lock in a rate and face amount for Life. Some people do want to have a guaranteed death benefit. the conversions are just an option.

Now as PFS has been in business well over 30 years. Why do they have a renewal within their policy? With the BTID concept along with the Theory of decreasing responsibility after the end of Term the client should be basically self insured.

If by chance a company does cut rates, who is the wins? You mean to tell me Primerica Life has never lowered their rates to be able to compete? Have you ever heard of PFS cutting commission levels? bring up that subject with some of the old timers. What about rolling back agents? You see Richard your defending the what’s good for the company. we are defending what’s good for the agent.

If people want to lay their hat with PFS, so be it. Just understand people have to separate the company interest from the individual business (agent) interest. I myself don’t think many PFS agents are idiots. Many just don’t know what they don’t know. They are green to the industry and only hear one side of it. I have yet to hear of anyone who has left PFS to go independent and has given up independence and gone back. It might have happened, I just have not heard of it happening.

As for being a salesman. It’s all sales. Do you use closing tactics? Ha your RVP ever told you about the Feel, Felt Found closing? Has PFS ever talked about Tom Hopkins? Do you have a Leaders bulletin? Does PFS offer incentive trips? It’s sales. He who sells the most makes the most. Don’t make any sales and see how much contact you will get from your upline. Quit and see how often they call you just to check on the cowboys score and see how your doing? It’s sales..When sipping the kool-aid they may not say it, but it’s sales. Recruit to sell..

Look they even sold you on their idea that it’s ok for higher ups to have inside information that can have a material effect on your business (Your an independent contractor) and they can’t tell you anything. recruit, recruit, recruit, to the end. Why because the company runs on a sales force that’s mostly part-time and they need to keep a constant flow of new people coming in. It is in PFS’s best interest to have the noncompete so as to protect the business. PFS is looking out for PFS. That’s business. One the agents start looking out for what’s in their business interest they leave. Yet there’s still the people who just don’t wish to start over again. See noncompete…

Here’s a secret many PFS agents don’t know. This rings true especially if they don’t have anyone on their team. They can leave PFS and try the independent route. If it’s not for them they can just go back to PFS. All they would have to do is pay the fees again. Shhhhh keep it quiet. Get this they may not have to go back to the same base shop..Shhhhhhhh keep that under your hat.

You say “Nobody gets special treatment in PFS.” Yea right. LOL..

Primerica:
1. Do not go full time until you are a Regional Leader and aproximetly 6 months from RVP contract. (Regardless what your upline says)
2. Primerica owns your clients. Quit and you will find the truth when you recieve the letter warning you to stay away from your clients or else..
3. Primerica is built on recruiting 1st. Sure some choose not to recruit but not until they reach RVP contract.
4. Is a great company however not the only BTID company.
5. You are captive: All Term, Investments, and Mortgages must go through PFS. (Smart Loan) isn’t as good as they make it seem

HBW:
1. PFS spin off with a non-captive contract.
2. I hear bonuses suck at RVP equivalent contract
3. Focused on Sales 1st and recruiting second
4. Most that join from PFS don’t make it big. Once they quit PFS they are prone to quit HBW. They blame it on PFS but the reality is that they are to blame.

Recomendation: Go independent…

I was really surprised that this debate of whole life versus term is so badly presented.

To mention the coach (ALWiliams) in Canada is apt to bring the rath of many an agent. The rape and pillage still goes on.

I am no longer a licenced agent but having obtained my CLU( Chartered Life Underwriter) designation in 2001 I find this interesting on to the point of humourous.

I find it very fascinating that most people whether right or wrong will present their opinions as facts and back them up with only the correct facts that seem to colaborate their side of the opinion. the book Coach was banned in provinces in Canada and some states many years ago.

The correct fact is that their is a time and place for both products term and permanent insurance.

It is quite easy if it is a temporary problem such as a young family whole needs income protection then a lot of inexpensive ( i hate the word cheap) term is required.

For a permanent problem such as the unfunded tax liability on a rrsp then a permanent product is required.

It appears to me that it would be very difficult to do any Comprehensive Financial Planning or Estate Planing with a limited stable of products.

Some things I would like our experts to remember .

1. The licence to sell Life insurance should be the start of your training not the end.

2. To anyone who replaces any product plese remember to read the front of the replacement form to the propective client.. In Paraphrase ” it is the obligation of the replacing agent to sugest that the insured refer back to the issuing company where they may be able to make some concessions and offer benefits not given in the new policy.”

3. When training for the Mutual Funds Licence your should review the area where it is suggested that everyone should have an adequate amount of Life insurance before investing.

4. The above is restated when studying for the CFP course of study.

Unfornately most companies convince their representatives that the business is about sales and commisisions not assisting the client with some of the most important decisions of their life.

5. When talking to clients we were taught a valuable question to ask oneself. ” would you buy this solution for yourself and would you recomend that your mother go ahead with this today.

If you dont train purposly with the idea of becoming a Financial Advisor, CLU, CFP or work for a company with these people how would you expect to aspire to becoming a professional.

‘Thank you for your time and have a great day.

Doitnow. For HBW compensation you can go directly to the company web site and see the compensation video and the guidelines. Something else to consider is the many different products available to be offered. Not to mention the securities side of 6,63,26 and 65. Agents can have outside business if they so choose. At HBW there’s no recruiting requirement. Some agents just don’t wish to build a team. as for a comparison, there’s no comparison between what HBW has to offer compared to what Primerica has to offer. It’s just a case of to each his own or many agents at PFS just don’t know industry wise what they don’t know. Really it’s beyond a HBW vs Primerica. As agents are independent contractors they should understand the contract they sign. With all things being equal, why would someone who is in the industry on a part-time basis sign a noncompete when they have other options?

Larry something to consider is the PFS market. It’s a Term product with a side account. That’s it. Keep it simple. The “debate” is done. All over the net PFS agents are getting schooled. Once the kool-aid factor wears off and they start asking questions they start asking questions and gathering information. Facts are facts.
Primerica isn’t a bad or scam company. They have their business model people can take it or leave it. just keep people going through the system. It works for them. They put up the numbers. The more PFS agents post or read blogs, the closer they come to leaving PFS. At some point they will do some research. Facts are facts.

Yeah I read your blogs..but Im still PFS for life! Nothing will change that FACT the PFS helped me and my family while the rest of the industry failed miserable! We only becom PFS clients a few years ago..compared to what we had prior when we had all the wrongs advice from so called FINANCIAL EXPERTS…with that said and done there’s nothing else to say!

Cheers yall!

2tbw: Allstate, State Farm, Waddell and Reid, etc. Every one I have come across I have replaced.

Had he lived, he would have received a much lower renewal rate compared to your policy. Second, how old was he when the policy was put in force? Depending on that, he may have qualified for a longer level period. BTW, had he been 44 at the time of policy and best rate, it would have stayed the same for 30yr.

DIN:
The smart loan is not for everyone. For those it is for, it is usually a considerably better option than what else is out there. And as stated many times before, the clients belong to the companies anyways, we are simply paid to maintain the clients. We can split this hair as many times as you want. Business people get it, salesmen do not.

Larry, please provide a link to where and when the book was banned. It doesn’t show up on the first 10 pages of Google ANYWHERE for that claim. The purpose of life insurance is to replace income and cover unexpected bills related to an insureds deaths. Not for tax purposes. Last I checked, that was Insurance 101. I’ll quote Dave Ramsey on this one:

“Take Bob and Susie. They start with nothing and get 200k of 20yr level life insurance. And have average debt. Put them on this plan. Fast forward 20 years. Kids are grown and gone, debt is paid off, they OWN their house, and have $700k in retirement investments. Hmm, if Bob dies tomorrow, I think Susie could live just fine without a $200k death benefit with the $700k of investments. What do you think?”

Vastly paraphrased, but the point is still the same. Bottom line, if we are all doing what is right for our clients, permanent/crap value/whore life insurance has NO place in the market place.

AT: I’ve done my research. HBW is like every other “independent” firm out there. Just like every other company I keep taking business from. HBW, WFG, and many others are SALES based marketing companies. Their commissions are geared towards the individual producer. Their bonuses SUCK. I’ve ran the numbers countless times. As an RVP (compared to same level at HBW), with overrides and all, I would make less up front here at PFS. Add in bonuses from building a business, I make 3 – 4x as much.

If all you independents are so much better, why do I keep finding problems with your plans? Why do your clients keep calling me for help? Why do your clients get so mad when I show them, using the products documentation YOU left behind, how they got fucked by you? Simple. Having more products does not make a better person. A better person makes a better person.

Hello Richard welcome back. First off i’m not a blog mod., but the strong language isn’t called for. It’s very unprofessional. as I always say stay at PFS. PFS is perfect for you. Every company/organization is geared towards sales. If nothing is sold no one gets paid. At HBW there is the option to advance from personal production or with a team. Can an agent at PFS advance from personal production? As we all know, not everyone has the want to recruit.

To you the bonuses at HBW may “suck”, but forget the bonuses for a minute and just consider what can be made from other products. There’s LTC, Disability, Senior Settlements, Fixed/Indexed Annuities, Mortgages, A Debt Reduction Program (Very small commission on that one) Series 6,63 and 65 and then throw in the agents ability to have outside business such as Health Insurance, Real Estate, CPA’s, Attorney’s, Financial Planers, etc. now compare all that opportunity compared to what PFS can offer. If an agent thinks the bounses suck all they have to do is produce their own bonus.

HBW isn’t for you or Mark C. That’s ok. As for more products, products are just tools. Would you rather go to a job with a tool box or with just a hammer. Have you ever heard of Ed Slott?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJoFaIy27c

ALW/PFS has been around for 30 plus years. Where are all the people who are financially independent using the BTID concept? At one time ALW had over 200,000 agents. That’s thousands of people who have been approached by ALW/PFS. Yes I know you can’t make people save and invest but at some point if you see they arn’t saving and investing, what do you do? If they live beyond their Term plan and don’t save or life has thrown them a curve what are your options? What if they develop a major health issue and as we know health issues take money. What do you do? What are the options if you run into a PFS client who is coming to end of Term? Do you inform them of the possibility of selling the policy in the open market? Would having the option of conversion be a positive?

So go ahead and replace programs if you can just make sure your E/O is in place. Tell a client to drop a policy because they are financially free and let them find out they had an option of selling their policy and you never informed them about it..So in closing. Yea right clients are calling you for help. Are these “clients” calling for help with their Term plans or are you reverting to cash value again?
Just to get it straight there are others who sell mostly if not only TERM. If Primerica isn’t about sales, just give out information and don’t sell any products.

You say “Their commissions are geared towards the individual producer.” Is it wrong for the person who makes the sale to make the most from the transaction? At least at HBW the CEO says the person who makes the sale should make the most. To me that fair.
You may not think so, but you agree with a noncompete and giving up legs. etc.

Hey AT finaly you understand that we are PFS and cannot be convinced otherwise. and same with you..happy where you are den stay where you are..as for giving up legs well that only fair as to not handicap my upline since im being promoted to the same level as him and leaving his team and expanding my own..likewise if I promote a downline who is a big personal producer in my team if he leaves I dont want my business to go down so I get replacements to take his place..just like in any corporate structure…you let some people go or the quite..so you get new ones to replace so that your business stays balance…I dont see any wrong in that! Geez man! What if you best people left your business..wont that affect your overall business…so want the problem with that their getting their promotion to a higher compensation and bonuses! and get to open their own branch..last I check thats the goal of the company to open more branches and outlets to service more people and get more market share!

Be happy where you are and will be happy where we are and thats the end of that…NEXT please!

Thanks!

Sure your happy and that’s great, but when you bring in others you don’t tell the whole story. When I bring people on my team I give them all the information they ask for and more. If you noticed HBW is an open book. People can see the contract and the products on the web site and if they so choose call and speak to the CEO. Where is the commission schedule located on the PFS web site? Where is the policy specifics? If these things are not available what does the prospective recruit have to compare what you have to offer with? My post in a way can help other practice over coming objections, but the problem is you guys have nothing to back up you rebuttals. People can only go by what you say. I sya don’t believe a word I type. People should do research.

As for replacement, if people left my business i would wish them the best and if they wanted to come back I would welcome them with open arms. You see people have to do what’s best for them. I understand that. Now how is it fair for someone to go out and find a team member, train them and then give them up due to a advancement? As we know the RVP will in most cases take the best producing leg. That’s directly taking income from the advancing agent. Yea I know the advancing RVP should have more than one strong leg. Well we know how that goes. So the question is why is it better to have a requirement to give up a leg than to not have one? You don’t see anything wrong with replacements because you don’t know of any other way. Art or no Art. PFS will have to make some drastic changes to compete long term. The majors are the noncompete and the giving up legs. Across the kitchen table for a potential recruit if you offered a contract with a noncompete and the giving up legs and I didn’t who do you think would get the recruit? You can hype it or spin it anyway you so choose, but you would lose.

Just for a point of information. You PFS guys don’t say when the threads will end or continue. I think that right only goes to TFB. Your an independent contractor defending a company you have to ties to. My information is directed to inform the agents as to the business side of marketing organizations. Be on a crusade, but don’t be played for a fool. Facts are facts…Thank you very muchhhh…

Which brings up the question. If by chance Primerica did shut down and sell off the block of business what contractually can you take with you elsewhere (if you wanted to stay in the industry)? Yes I know you have faith that Primerica will consider what’s in your best interest especially considering your independent contractors.. Oh yes I just updated my carrier software I get for free and I just ordered some more FREE brochures from the carrier. Hey wait a minute all of the carriers I represent give me free tools/supplies.

Yata yata yata! Thanks for your opinion and ur view..not everyone thinks like you and not everyone wants to be like you okay so you go and try to recruit and “WE PFS GUYS” will continue to recruit and let the numbers show who will out recruit who?! Let the numbers show and speak for themselves! Anyways if your only hope of recruiting is in this blog well you better have sum kool aid in reserved cuz your in for a long haul! Good luck bdw…Il send you a postcard and check on you if you ever need some more kool aid buddy,..wouldnt want you to get thirsty or dehydrated so that you can continue your business…

By the way speak for yourself because when I recruit people I disclose everyting and give them the membership form to read first and answer any question they might have and guid them every step of the way! I dont know what Primerica version you have in your head or in your experience..but my is totally and completely different from your man so dont say that we dont disclose..dont be steryotypical..jsut because we are “Primericans”…We;re a legit business and good company to work with and we are to my knowledge the only one that does what we do on a bigger scale and are growing the fastest! Anyway man TFB doin his thing..your doing your thing and WE are doing our thang! So let it be! Anyone who signs anything without fully understanding there contract really has to go back and take the time to get their questions answered and do their own research!

Thank YOU ladies & gents!

I have an appointment so i’ll keep it brief. I’m not contacting PFS reps. They are contacting me..as for recruiting on this blog, please show where I have given out any contact information. Primerica as it stands is done if they don’t make some changes. We have the ability to run quotes from different carriers from our individual web sites which mean if we so choose we can just get a nonresident license in every state or individual statesand do business. How can you compete with that? As for LTC business, disability business and Fixed/Indexed annuity buiness we use brokerages who assist us with plan design and proposals. How can you compete with that? get this…Free..

So stay loyal to the company. Ask Lee Iacocca about company loyalty.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090529/bs_nm/us_chrysler_iacocca

Yes i’m sure you explain giving up legs, roll back, charge backs and the difference between being captive and independent. Do you also tell your recruits they don’t have to start at the lower commission level because they can start at a higher level per the RVP’s discretion? Ask your RVP about that one. Can they still do that? The only way to save PFS is for the organization to go independent, make the commissions more competitive and to revise the agent agreement which they won’t do. An indpependent contractor blinded by company loyalty. Yet the company has no loyalty to you. Don’t think so, read your contract.

Listen here I will make it this brief because i have several appointments and groups to present to so I wont wast anymore time! Ik happy and content where I am an you yours! Your Are thinkin salesman mentality I on the other had Im Business minded thats why I want to build a business so that I make money without goin out in the field as ofter..while you always have to ..caus you salesman thats the BIG DIFFERENCE ok! Nothin more to say! I see you always want the final word..well I dont care so move on or I will!

What’s wrong with having a salesman mentality. Some people want to just sell. You see at other organizations we feel people should have the ability to run their business how they feel is in their best interest. Now as for me, I have agents in many states. Some want to market licensed products and some don’t wish to get licensed. You see I introduce the business and let people decide which way is best for them. I am build a nationwide team in the US and hopefully one day in Canada.

Now you mention building a business so you don’t have to go out in the field. Consider the products you currently market that don’t pay renewals until you reach RVP. Consider the loss of compounding from not earn those potential renewals.. You see some products (Organizations) pay renewals outside of PFS. Consider your LTC product. I can sell the same product and earn renewals. Yes even my newly licensed people can earn renewals too. Same thing with offering legal plans outside of PFS. Oh one more thing about offering legal plans outside of PFS. Did you know a an associate and their spouse can both sell Legal plans on the same contract?

Let’s look at business building. Just because someone isn’t with PFS does not mean they don’t understand building a business. Yes I have heard of recruiting wide and deep. You are building a business for Primerica. I am building a business for me. Which comes to the question you won’t answer. At this point in your PFS career if you wanted to leave what could you take with you per contract? Me I can take my team and clients (If they wanted to follow me) and move on. I had that option from day one. That’s an option for anyone I bring on my team from day one. You see my main concern is about MY business. Your concern is of the business of Primerica. That’s ok, but please read above article. So build your team and go sell to your groups. Just keep looking over your shoulder because your licensing and training your future competition. Remember many of us (Former PFS Agents) were where you are now. The more you read and the more you post the closer you get to leaving PFS. Facts are facts. Your loyal to Primerica the business. I’m loyal to my business. I can offer the best products from many different carriers. You can only offer what Primerica thinks is best for Primerica. Now that’s being a salesman. You offer no other options.

When I was at PFS I was happy too, until I found out I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Once I snapped out of the Kool-aid effect and looked at it as a business I felt like a fool.

Marc…

If you are not allowed to procure products outside those dictated to you. That might make you more of a salesman (assuming the condescending tone you seem to give the title) any of us could ever be. I own a business I can pass to my kids and no company can shut it down or sell it from under my feet.

It is amazing how these guys forget Art procured the cheapest carriers back then. Now in contrast, they have to justify selling those policies not matter how many challenges may be involved and if they want to stay there they have to defend them, so I understand the predicament. What else can they do?

Hey that’s your loyalty move ok but it doesn’t make it better or right.
What is this notion that in order to do BTID you must renounce any and all permanent products?
There is a proper use for each product and you cannot use an insurance mentality of one size fits all method. Yes one size fits all because no matter what you still use that one carrier, that one product and the product is not geared towards older individuals with taxation reduction needs or women (unisex policies cost too much simply for being a woman!).

Where is the logic on preventing you form issuing a suitable insurance product when you client has been deemed Impaired Risk or too old for Term?
How about for estate or taxation reduction planning purposes?
BTID is a concept, not a company.

Richard, Richard, Richard,

Waddell & Reed has there own insurance policy? Are they an insurance company? Allstate and State Farm, I can’t recall but one of them if not both have expensive term products also. One of them sell there term through Lincoln Benefit Life State farm I believe. Lincoln Benefit term is better than what you can offer. I am sure Allstate is also. You haven’t replaced anyones term. You are so transparent, you are just pulling stuff up out of the air I hope. Because if your managers are telling you this crap, I feel sorry for you and your clients. My handle could not have been more appropriate.

If he had been 44, is that what you tell your clients? I take this business to serious so I feel obligated to call you and the other reps that have been exposed to the truth and still defend what you are doing BRAINWASHED jokes of the industry.

2THEBRAINWASHED,

Don’t worry about replying I probably one reply. Xcuse the typos.

It’s over. The pro PFSer’s have no clue what is going on with other organizations. It’s not just about BTID. There’s also a marketing side to all this. You guys just don’t have a clue what you are up against and it’s in the beginning stage. There’s a major national expansion that is taking form and you just don’t have a clue. Stay where you are and keep drinking that Kool-Aid… You just don’t have a clue…

Answer this I have a Clue and its not to sell out like you sorry to sayt..but maybe you just want to stay as a salesman forever but me no I want to recruit train and develop independent business owners and not independant salesman..I guess theirs a need for those kind of people to ..so let them drink your koooool aid ad ok me I will dring my martini shaken nor stired on the rocks ok! RR well your entitled to your view how to run your business…maybe you and AA can merge together and create a company and try to compete with Primerica…Your market is the old folks..or the innocent who dont have a clue….are market are those middle class “80%” majority of the people who needs it the most who have been over-taxed..under paid..over-stressed and who want to get freedom from debts from corporate job and who are stressed out and insecure about their jobs… WE give them a fighting chance to be somebody and call the shots! Like
I said always the final word and I will betcha a million $ that you will once again comment and perpetuate this …

So I will be the smarter individual to focus on my building an sign off for good from this useless and endless debating!

FINALY I say my fairwell to yall!!

Good luck!

Mark C. I target the same market you do and more. You don’t know what you don’t know. I am building a team on a nationwide basis. I hire greenies and the experienced. I can sit down side by side with you and do the same thing. You can’t sit side by side with me and do what I can do for a client.There’s no debate. On my personal web site I can have potential clients run quotes. Can you? That ’s just one point… You have no idea what your “competition” is doing.

It amazes me after looking at all these posts for the past few months how these new PFS agent get so mentally into ” we are better than you” mantality and think they can give a client a reasonable chance at giving them a financially sound plan, when you need years of experience to even think you are going to make millions in your first month. You start out by writting your close friends and family with small little products, you then grow with your clients, as they grow familes they need more coverage and products, as they get older, there needs change, you will not be rich overnight people, it doesnt happen that way. I have been in this industry for 30+ years, I have worker with New York Life my first 9 years and have been independent since. All products have a purpose, including permanenet, I had a healthy retired 63 year old come to me last month asking for life insurance. All she wanted was a policy she can pay so that if she passes today or in 40 years the policy will be there so that no one else will be burdened with the expense. She has no savings, no family left. Do you honestly think I would sell her term and invest the difference. All products have a purpose and all products lessen the finacial risk for someone else. I can just imagine walking into an auto dealership and the salesman telling me that they have only one car to sell and thats what I need. You cannot tell an individual, a family or a business what they need before you even know them, thats absurd!!! I just cant phathom how this way of doing business is being used these days.

Joe, the reason they think the way they do is because that’s all they know. They go by what they heard and not what they have found out on their own. Why consider Pension Max when they don’t have a product for that concept. Please don’t ask them about a Funeral Trust. It’s not in their market. They have no clue on the potential income they are giving up from being held captive. Part-time at that…..

Answer This,

Wow!!! What control.

Sure it control and many don’t even know it. I remember a confrontation i had with a PFS agent. Well it wasn’t really a confrontation, he was trying to recruit me. I made all my points and he went off on cash value. I said i don’t sell much perm., but if it’s needed or the client wants it I will give it to them. So he goes off on “you don’t get the cash value if you die”. I explained how the cash value is used to allow the policy to perform as illustrated and that the cash value did not belong to the client so when he told people they lose their cash value if they die, he was being misleading. It’s the insurance company money and that’s why they charge interest because they lose the use of that money. That’s basic, but they can’t comprehend it.

I was once a PFS Rep., so I can understand where they are coming from. I can also understand Primeica’s position. It’s not their responsibility to educate their field force outside of their products and marketing plan. It’s business. It’s not about some crusade. It’s business and I found out it was business when I left. They mailed me a letter telling me to stay away from the clients I brought in for 2 years. As I said I don’t hate on PFS, they have everything in writing in their agent agreement. The main problem is no one reads it and anyone new to the industry has no clue what are the red flags or things they should be concerned about.

Get this. Many PFS agents are married and have kids. Out of their loyalty to the company they purchase the P.Life term when they know they could get more coverage with the same or less premium dollar outside of PFS. Especially when you consider the rates for females.

They will say, God, family, then business. Well to me it seems to go God, business then family. Knowing what they know, how can they go to family and friends and offer the PFS product while knowing that they could get more coverage elsewhere for their premium dollar?

Once I found out I couldn’t do it. You see the crusade and the mission became what it really was. It was sales. It’s business. Richard and Mark C. along with others don’t see it because they don’t want to. The Primerica agents tell about the theory of decreasing responsibility. Well if their plan is so great why do they have renewal rates? The client should be financially independent at the end of term. Then of course they never ask where are all the people who are financially independent who started the plan from back in the 70″ early 80″s? They should be showing up NOW. With the economy as it is now would be the time to tell the masses of the success of BTID and how PFS have saved many families. Primerica isn’t a bad business, but it is business. Really it’s genius…

So you pro PFS people consider this. God forbid if you died at this moment what death benefit would be delivered to your loved one’s. Use your current premium dollar and compare what could be potentially delivered at http://www.term4sale.com

This is about doing what’s right for your family. if you have a PFS policy because you have to own what you sell your putting the needs of Primerica before the needs of your family. The kool-aid is served cold.. It has to be because the agents are the life blood of the business. Just so others know, I don’t care if PFS stays around or gets shut down. They are not an issue. It’s all about giving information so people can make an informed decision and ask questions before they contract with any organization.

A “part-time” independent contractor and captive. Why? For the primeicans, if anything I have posted is wrong, please let me know.
You say you have the best policy, but PFS (Per rumor) is willing to give up that business and sell the sales force to another who will give you another product to sell. Don’t you ever just say hmmmm something just doesn’t sound right? It’s ok for PFS to consider other carriers products for their field force to sell, but not for you.

Joe it’s deep……

Here is something I ran across on another message board. I don’t know if this is the true PFS compensation structure/guidelines so maybe Richard or Mark C. will verify it.

“The first level is Representative. To qualify for Representative, you must submit your Independent Business Application and get your life license. Representatives earn 25% commission on life insurance. Average annual premiums for life insurance for a husband and wife is about $1000. Representatives will earn $250.

The second level is Senior Representative. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 3 new business associates to qualify for Senior Representative position. Senior Reps earn 35% commission on life insurance, so they will get paid $350. Not only that, they also earn 10% overrides (35% – 25%). So if you have a Representative who helped a family, the Representative gets paid $250 and you will get paid $100.

The third level is District Leader. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have one business associate promoted to Senior Representative. You and your team must also submit $2500 in premiums in one month. As a District Leader, you earn 50% commission on life insurance, 15% (50-35) override on Senior Reps, and 25% (50-25) override on Representatives.

The forth level is Division Leader. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 1 business associate promoted to District Leader and submit $5000 in premiums in one month. As a Division Leader, you earn 60% commissions on life insurance, 10% override on Districts, 25% override on Senior Reps, and 35% override on Representatives.

The fifth level is Regional Leader. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 3 business associates promoted to District Leader and submit $7500 in premiums in one month. Regional Leaders earn 70% commission on life insurance, 10% override on Division, 20% override on Districts, 35% override on Senior Reps, and 45% override on Representatives.

The sixth level is Regional Vice President. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 6 business associates promoted to District Leader, be full time in the business, must be fully licensed, and submit $20,000 in premiums for 2 consecutive months (a minimum of $8000 in each month), must have acceptable persistency, and must be approved by Office of Supervisory Jurisdiction. RVPs earn 95% commission on life insurance plus bonuses and override commissions.

The seventh level is Senior Vice President.
The eighth level is National Sales Director.
The final level is Senior National Sales Director.”

Not only that. Before promotion to VP an RL must give up an agency leg with respective downlines. Since the promoting VP still over rides everyone it is beyond me how they actually justify it and the promoting VP chooses which leg to take.
Their only consolation is that someday they will get to chop one of their downlines in the same manner (like a gang initiation beat-down)… Supposedly this makes the new VP stronger. So do steroids but that is still not right.
Then they have the commission levels being so low to compensate the guy above far more than the writing agent, that is not how it works elsewhere.
Territory (recruitment networking) and product limits are beyond reason there because they don’t even issue some products they prohibit which is unreasonable in my opinion.
Then the monthly fees they pay to run their FNA subscription, brochures at cost etc… No we don’t pay those and we have them too.

Mark has no idea what he is talking about. he actually thinks we focus on other markets. Mark we serve your market and then some, we serve everyone. Think of it this way… Those you are forced to exclude we help and those you help, we help even more. I have yet to see a single product in your arsenal I cannot defeat easily in both price and benefits. You cannot even approach other markets (keeps your income rather low in realtive comparison).

They completely refuse to acknowledge incredibly strong points such as why sell expensive unisex term? He never touched that subject.
Or what’s wrong with doing term comparison shopping?
How about why build a company for someone else?

See, in all markets we would not use a term that would penalize women. In all markets we match the right term carrier with the right term client. In the same manner we match clients with a need for permanent products.

Those guys think we are the enemy, when in fact the enemy is the one that has a vested interest in maintaining their subjects in ignorance.

What is most incredible to me is that they see this information and it is like they simply refuse to understand it or research it. They seem to be compelled to remain there no matter the amount of undeniable evidence that the only thing you they doing 100% right all the time is selling for one company.

Certainly that is not being on the client’s side. If you are going to replace a WL then know what you are doing and issue the best term policy out there, not just the only one you are limited to sell.
Also don’t let a company tell you that you cannot use your license to help people get Disability, Critical Care, Accident and Health products, medical insurance, fixed annuities etc…
Just because they don’t sell it that does not give them the right to limit your earning potential. Let’s see if they can justify that with any logic or reason.
If someone is telling you that your state license can only be used to sell their products, that is a good sign that you might be the salesman as they have removed objectivity from being an option.

So true RR. What I have learned isthey may say they have a mission of helping people get out od debt and becoming financially independent, but to do this as an agent is to recruit, recruit and then recruit some more. It’s not the products. It’s the system. If it were about products the agents could advance from personal production. why is recruiting required to advance? Think about it. Forced saving account= Bad,,,Forced to recruit=Good.. Hey Kool-aid..

WOW! Dude what happedned to you, to cause this bashing against our company PRIMERICA. I’m a Dvisionion Leader in PRIMERICA and I’m so thankful for my teammates (uplines and downlines, those making seven to less figuers). I’m a single mom and no employer I’ve worked for has ever exposed me to a system that is leading me to financial independence.and freedom let along allowed me to work it and share it with others who can do it too if they get out and work!

Wilma what have I or others said that isn’t true? I’m not bashing the company. If there is a better way to get to financial independence why is it a problem? Have you noticed when the other PFS posters get frustrated they revert to calling everyone cash value salesmen when we say all the time we sell Term?

Something else to consider is it’s not your company. Your an independent contractor. Have you considered that “your company”, per news accounts has offered to sell you? (The marketing organization) Sure that’s loyalty to the sales force. Market with whomever you like, just tell the whole story.

For years PFS agents attacked other agents and companies and now it’s a problem when it’s coming back home. You are not Primerica. You are an independent contractor who has contracted with Primerica to market their products. Read your contract. PFS spells it out.

If you want a successful career at PFS stay off message boards. You can’t argue facts..Just do blind recruiting and sooner or later you will get to where you want to be. Keep people coming and going.

Ok, i’m going to lay off you Primericans. It’s over. You guys have no clue what is going on with your “competition”..You won’t see it until you look at this as a business.

For those that are curious there are 1972 people that make over $100,000/yr.

The breakdown is as follows:
1524 making $100,000-$249,999/yr
281 making $250,000-$499,999/yr
81 making $500,000-$749,999/yr
28 making $750,000-$999,999/yr
42 making $1,000,000-$1,999,999/yr
10 making $2,000,000-$2,999,999/yr
2 making $3,000,000-$3,999,999/yr
3 making $4,000,000-$4,999,999/yr
1 making $5,000,000+/yr

This is current as of the 2009 Primerica Financial Independance Council book.

So less than 2% of their agents make $100,000. That is so sad!!

Sorry, Joe, but not all the numbers were posted. Only about 13% EVER do any business in a month and about 50% of the full timers make over $100k.

RR, AT, JA, you need to wake up to what is really going on. Regulations are being put in place to monitor and restrict the traditional life insurance/securities agents.

The companies you represent are encouraging and SUPPORT a single exemption to said regulations. Can you guess what that is? Exempt Primerica from such oversight since Primerica continues to do what is right for the client. Those are your companies supporting that. Primerica has over 30 years doing that and that is not changing.

Not all term is created equal, Primerica’s is above average. Primerica pays out twice the industry average per claim. Primerica brags about how much it pays in death claims. Primerica continues to educate people on how things work.

The companies you represent are hurting, and hurting bad. They can’t make their profit margins selling term because they have invested so much into cash value. Last month, 6 respected carriers went BEGGING to the US government for money. This month, only 2 accepted it.

The SEC filing for the companies you represent all say the same thing. “Don’t know if we can meet the guarantees we made.” They need to keep borrowing money to keep the reserves full. They need to lower prices to get clients because their products alone wont well themselves. They need to raise commissions to get agents to sell their products. Your companies are pricing themselves out of business because they wont adapt the philosophy of “Doing what is right by the client.”

I don’t have to look far to know this, I get the selling material all the time in the mail requesting me to sell their products. Not a single one shows any benefit to the client. They all emphasize either higher commissions, lack of choice by the client, and for the cash value products, a barely keeping up with inflation guarantee.

You brag about not having to pay for marketing material, thats all find and good, but your CLIENTS are paying for it through the policy premiums. They cut premiums to get customers while extending how long it takes to be profitable. They run the risk of the client dropping the business before making a profit so they can stay in business.

The companies you represent are so financially unstable, they don’t even know it yet. Yes Citi took TARP money, they also took money from Primerica’s profits. Primerica has 0 debt and took 0 funds. Primerica still grows despite all the shit going on.

You guys can hate it all you one. Keep clinging to the old model, HBW is the old model despite how new the company is, Primerica will keep with a model that benefits the client and agent. When your companies get put on the block for predatory lending or misleading sales practices, don’t come to me. I only want honest and ethical people on my team.

Richard,
Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that you were about 100,000 in Primerica. Therefore, only 4,000 are working full time out of the 100,000 advisors? this sounds pretty small. what are the others do?

Primerica has over 100k licensed agents. Since there is no pressure to sell and agents are encouraged to start part time, only about 12 to 13% ever turn in a sell each month. The numbers are the numbers. The rest either phase out and let licenses expire (while being replaced by new agents) or only work holidays for extra cash.

It should also be noted that of those 100k, between 25k and 30k are also mutual fund licensed (Series 6/63). Most people truly do Primerica as a way of earning an extra couple grand a month and nothing more. Very few want to take it to a full career change.

This is quite interesting as in Quebec, they don’t have the choice of doing it part time or not (I guess it’s because we have a bunch of weird laws ).

That is because about 2 months before Primerica entered Quebec (and Canada in general), the insurance companies were afraid of competition and got the “no part time” law pushed through and passed.

If you ever get a chance, read the Coach Book. Even if for no other reason than to “research the competition.”

I can assume that after all the dust settles Primerica Life will be the only carrier left standing? You see Independent can add or subtract carriers when they so choose. I still fail to see how Primerica is doing what’s right for the client? What is the meaning of doing what’s right? As agents we all get the mailings That’s nothing new. Your clients pay a bit more and you have to pay for marketing materials? My clients can pay less and I get free marketing materials. As for companies we do have access to Mutual companies. One more thing. sure this is a somewhat heated debate, but cussing isn’t needed. It doesn’t look good for PFS that agents when pressed revert to cussing to make a point.

Unless PFS makes some changes they are done. They just won’t be able to compete. PFS agents can basically only recruit on a local level. We can build on a nationwide level. Online at that if we so choose. How are you going to compete with that. Then across the kitchen table in a confrontation you won’t win.

HBW and Primerica are just different platforms for people to start a Financial services business. People just have the option of just picking one. HBW is upfront and exposed. What information can an individual gather from the Primerica web site. To get any kind of concrete information they have to go to a meeting. Why is that?

One day HBW will/might be in Canada. It might be in a few years, but when they do open up your done. If PFS is still around.