November 26, 2007, 8:00 am

Comparing Primerica To Other Companies

by: The Financial Blogger    Category: Primerica Series
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After creating my series of four posts on Primerica, I received several email from readers asking for more details. Again, I will try to make the most honest conclusions on the topic without trying to bash anyone. I use rational arguments and strongly suggest Primerica Agents to comment on this blog. I know people working for several financial institutions as well as insurance and investment companies. I will not make direct comparisons with other companies as most of them work with similar business models. What really differs from one to another is their culture because financial products are alike across the industry in Canada.

Does Primerica have a commercial advantage?

According to their sales pitch, they do. If I sit down and I listen blindly to what they have to tell me, they will explain that they are not there for the money (but will later brag that they are making 6 figures by working minimal hours a week) since they really care about people. They want to help out people with their debt and bring them to a better financial position. They pretend that you only need term insurance and that the rest of the products are useless. Therefore, they don’t sell any other options or so they say, (because I heard they have them too).

The truth is that if you sit down with an advisor from another company, they will more likely tell you that they place the client in the center of their business. Their goal is to meet their client’s needs. Well duh, have you ever heard somebody saying that his main goal is to sell a low cost product at the highest price no matter what the client wants? Seriously! All that to say:  any personal finance company will consider their clients as the core of their business. It is crucial to build a network to survive in this world. Primerica says they are there to help, some proclaim that they are providing clients with professional help; others will explain that their goal is to keep their clients as happy as a pig in  s?!^.

In fact, Primerica does not have a commercial advantage compared to other companies. The truth is that if a client Googles Primerica compared to most companies prior to the meeting, the Primerica agent will have a hard time selling anything!

Can you build your own business within a company other than Primerica?

Primerica is advertising the “build your own business” model. It is up to each agent to create their own office and run their own business with their own employees and their own clients. Most companies in the personal financial field do not offer this “opportunity”. If you want to manage employees, you can become a “team leader” or a “director”. These positions are still commission based but since you are also a recruiter for the firm, they will pay you a commission on your team’s sales in addition to your own. You also have the possibility to go higher up in the company and become a regular salary-based employee.

In fact, Primerica is more or less supporting the same system. The office that you “own” is rented and displays the Primerica banner. “Your employees” are self employed / commission-based employees that are totally independent. Finally, “your clients” belong to Primerica. In their contract, it is clearly stated that if you leave Primerica, you are leaving your clients with Primerica as well. Hmmm, sounds to me more like a franchise than anything else.

What is so different in their commission structure?

If you want to meet with clients, write financial plans and close deals, Primerica is definitely not for you. You do not really have to write financial plans since everything is populated from the Primerica system. And when you close deals, you are making less money than you would with any other company. Commission rates are very low since you have three other people above you that will eat a part of the cake you just baked. These individuals have to be compensated from somewhere. Guess what, Primerica is not giving a penny to them, you are financing their “team leader”, “regional director” and “VP” positions.

So, unless you want to become a full-time recruiter, the commission structure is much better with other companies. And if you recruit people, you have to convince them to sell with under-paid commissions. Sounds like a real challenge, doesn’t it?

Please share your comments, and once again, I encourage Primerica advisors to explain what I am missing about the system.

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by: Sandy Martin | November 28th, 2007 (10:13 am)

This reply is to your opinions above. Obviously you have never engaged into the company or any aother financial company as you have missed the entire business building approach on two areas. First you can not compare other insurance companies and their intentions of their agents unless you have actually done it yourself. First area is products. Of course you can make bigger commissions with other companies because if they sell Whole Life or Universal life products they are gouging the middle income earner which represents 86% of Canadian Households. That is backed up by the Vanier report of Jan. 2006. The crusade that Primerica has on the insurance industry is buy term and invest the difference. Buying insurance at the lowest cost compared to having a savings plan inside your life insuranceis the best value for the consumer. By the way for your knowledge in those two plans if you want your money that you have paid into the plan, you borrow it from the insurance company at anywhere from 4-8%. IT IS YOUR MONEY!

Second this is a business building approach that if you learn your craft and and can teach a person to do your craft you are creating a team and yes you will override. All businesses override including all other insurance or financial companies. It does take on a franchise way of earning money , what wrong with that? Are you telling me that all real estate offices are bad. They operate in the same manner. Also let me point out this FACT, Primerica is the ONLY company to have more 6 figure income earners than any other company in the world. I will give you this though, as in any other business that operates on the globe, there are good reps and there are bad reps. There are people who make a lot of money and there are people who do not, but the point is our mission statement remains true, we only do what is best for the client. Maybe I suggest you sit down with an Regional Vice President and go over the total process before you come out with opinion. Notice that I said a regional Vive President and not someone who just joins or someone who does not generate any income in the business. The real challenge is is finding good , hard working individules who want to get a license and talk to people. Find a succesfull RVP and they will take you under their wing and teach what is best for the client. One last jab at your statement is that every business recruits through temp agencies or companies that have people screen resumes and pass onto the companies Human Resources.

You can work for someone or you can have income come to you in different streams through Debt Management, Insurance needs, or investment commissions. We use the same professional investment companies as every other financial company out there so again I express to you, go do some more homework and get your facts straight.

by: The Financial Blogger | December 2nd, 2007 (2:49 pm)

Dear Sandy,

I was expecting this kind of comment after writing so much about Primerica. However, if you read carefully my series, I am not trying to kill Primerica or say it is a bad company, all I am saying is that it is not as beautiful as what it seems. And it is not the case only for Primerica, several other companies pretend that they will give you the world if you work with (for) them. I am just trying to make things clear.

You are asking me to do my homework and revise my knowledge before I write on my blog. Maybe you could do the same in regards multiple usage of a CSV line of credit in a wealth management plan. Universal or Whole life insurance policies have their utility for wealthy people. I will not explain it as you may want to do your homework as well.

By the way, Primerica is not the only company selling term insurance, you did not invent the product. And yes, if you sell a term insurance with another company than Primerica, you will earn a bigger commission. You might have forget this part as several people working for Primerica seem to be completely brainwashed by the company mindset.

Let me quote a part of your comment:
“Also let me point out this FACT, Primerica is the ONLY company to have more 6 figure income earners than any other company in the world.”

There are 2 things in this quote that bug me. You want to point out a fact, but you do not advance any numbers. Where is the fact? Where did you get that information? Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong, but simply pretending that Primerica has the more 6 figures income earners on the planet is pretty easy to write!

The second thing is that working for a company that (supposedly) has the more 6 figures income earners doest not mean anything for ones personal situation. I look at more than a thousand files per year and I can tell you that I found millionaires in almost every work fields. There are obviously engineers, doctors and lawyers, but there are also teachers, metal shop worker and graphic designers. I you love what you do and you work hard enough, you can make money everywhere. Than again, I really would like to see some decent source of information showing Primerica as the best place to by in term of income.

I know financial consultants that are making 7 figures income. However, it does not mean that they all make it. Actually, most of them (in the whole industry) are starving to death. This is the honest truth about what is going on in this field.

I actually write this series to make people understand that working for Primerica will not make you rich within 3 years working 20 hours a week as it is presented by the company.

Sandy, I do not know if you read my other post regarding Primerica but I one of them I explain that I got most of my information from one of my friend who is a Regional Director at Primerica and will probably declared VP within another year. He tried to recruit me and we discuss several times for long hours. In the end, if I would be a financial advisor, I would not chose Primerica simply because they pay less than the other companies.

Last night, my husband & I met with friends of ours, a husband & wife, for dinner & their ‘presentation’ of Primerica. Prior to our engagement, I knew nothing of the company. As soon as we returned home, I googled Primerica to read some reviews to get a better scope of things.
After reading several blogs, I’ve decided that becoming employed in the company probably isn’t the route for us. However, I’m still trying to figure out what exactly, if anything, we should be interested in doing as far as debt consolidation & savings as a client through Primerica. Is there anything that those of you with several years in the company would honestly recommend or that is worth doing through Primerica rather than anywhere else?
Our friends will be meeting with us tomorrow to begin the FNA (is that right?), but that’s all we have going so far.
Any polite response is welcomed. Thanks!

by: The Financial Blogger | February 1st, 2008 (8:03 am)

Hi Chris,
when you are about to deal with a Financial Advisor, they will all tell you that they are working for the best company. However, all financial institutions have similar products! The real difference is coming from the advisor himself.

I would suggest to meet with your friend, let him prepare his plan for you and then shop around. No matter what he says, you are not bound to accept his proposition. Meet with more than one financial advisor from different company and then, decided the one that seems to be more trustworthy. Unfortunately, this is always a guessing game. However, by meeting with more than one advisor, you have better chance of finding somebody that will really help you out:-D

First, let me say that I love Primerica. It is true that PFS is not the only company to underwrite term life insurance. But what else is true is PFS is the only company on the face of this planet that ONLY underwrites term life. ALL other companies underwrite both cash value AND term life insurance. Even if you go to Dave Ramsey and get a quote from his preferred provider, which is Zander Insurance, you are getting quotes from companies who underwrite both types of insurance. The argument between term and cash value was settled years ago. Anyone who recommends, sells, underwrites, or otherwise peddles cash value life insurance is a thief. Even companies who provide term quotes for Dave Ramseys clients through Zander are quilty. I appreciate that Dave Ramsey teaches the correct principle of “buy term and invest the difference”. But he’s sort of sleeping with the enemy, don’t you think? So why Primerica? Because it’s the only life insurance company on the planet that hasn’t sold it’s soul down the river.

One other thing. I talked with a friend recently who has a Roth IRA with an “advisor”. This advisor is charging my friend an extra 1% on top of the normal fees and expenses normally charged by the mutual funds he is investing in. You figure out what 1% less on your rate of return over 30 years will do to your retirement nest egg. This 1% is not charged by PFS Investments on any client. I cannot wring any more commissions out of any of my clients than is already built into the mutual funds they invest in. My friend is pissed off. Wouldn’t you be? So who’s scamming who? It aint PFS!

I lied, one more thing. We preach that for most Americans there are really only 2 places to save money for retirement. The first place is your company provided plan such as your 401(k). Second is in an IRA, preferrably a Roth IRA if you’re still years away from retirement. This isn’t rocket science. If you’re maxing out your 401(k) and your IRA then you will put away $20,500 this year if you’re under age 50. You tell me how many Americans can save more than that? If you’re married and both work it’s $41,000! That’s about 98% of America! If you’re in the other 2%, go hire a CFP. Notice that annuities and life insurance are no part of a savings plan for the 98%. Annuities are only for high income earners who have already maxed out 401(k) and IRA or make too much to contribute. So if you’re one of the 98% and some “financial” guy is trying to put you into a cash value life insurance policy because it’s a great place to “save money’, RUN! If he’s trying to sell you on an annuity, RUN!

So anyway, there’s my ramble.

[…] those who know my blog for a while, you know that I am not a big fan of Primerica and its pyramidal structure. For those who are new to this blog, I invite you to visit my Primerica Series including the way […]

Okey so I worked in primerica this summer for two months and was real hyped out about it, then I found out some things from another financial company, thought about these things and everything came together, or should I say fell apart… so I decided to leave the company

So these are the reasons I left primerica :

1. The primary reason is because their term insurance, on what your promotion depends is actually one of the most expensive terms out there, and as I noticed from their pay slips gets canceled alot thus alot of charge back. When an insurance agent sees that his insurance was replaced he will go talk to his client and offer the client a cheaper term if term is what they want. My trainer told me that its because their insurance can be renewed until age 90 or something (but it will be much more expansive then whole life this way cuz when u renew it the cost will be much higher, which defeats the purpose of term) and the other reason is their insurance covers war and riot, many others do not. the cost difference would be about 80 $ primerica term about 60 $ cheaper competitor, so if you think people would rather pay 20 extra bucks for war and riot, then this shouldnt be an issue for u, but i don’t from judging most the people that i know. Plus there was never really a war or anything like that in canada so the risk is really insignificant the way i see it.

2. Competitors offer much higher commissions, so it would be hard to retain your team when they find out they could be making x 2-3 more money elsewhere doing the same job. primerica investment you get about 1%, then 1.5% as district and finally 3.3 % as RVP. In the independant brokerage whom i talked they give 4% when you start, right away higher then RVP. And most of their insurance commission is 150% of yearly premium (even for most term insurance) and also other insurance have recurring payments for the next few years meaning you get paid for insurance that you closed before for next 3-4 years.

3. They have much more products which you can offer to suit peoples needs better. Primerica is like one shoe fits all, where as in another company you could actually choose different products that your client actually needs instead of just offering what you have. And you work with many companies instead of citi so you can actually pick the most competitive one on the market to offer your clients.

4. you sign a contract that primerica owns all your clients when you leave the company, well working for an independant brokerage you will own all your clients even if you decide to work for another financial firm or even open up your own.

5. you can still grow your business and have a team under you in another financial firm, but people concentrate mostly on production because they make more money that way, so you dont have to go all crazy recruiting.

Also I found out that all the stuff they tell us about how universal is horrible is not all true. Like you can actually withdraw not borrow your money from universal policy, the one where you cannot withdraw is whole life, where you cannot use accumulation value, and maybe some other universal life, some you can actually withdraw. Also some would pay out cash value at death, again it depends on the option chosen (this one is even in the provincial exam btw) And your investment in universal life is not a crappy one with low return as they teach, its actually any seg fund that you choose, and you can choose from all around the market, some are even better then common sense fund (primerica seg fund) . The thing is its actually a tax sheltered investment, so people will not have to pay tax on grouth, not even when they withdraw the money, so if used propertly this can be actually a decent investment.

I do not think that it is possible to be able to retrire and not ever work when you are 30 years old in independant brokerage, but to tell you honestly I dont even think you can really do it in primerica, i think its a fools dream to never work again. But you can make really good money working in a financial firm and help families or rip them off, that is the agents choice in that case, but either way you will be in control of what you do, and you will get paid very well.


You missed a few points and apparently had a bad upline.

1. Primerica does not claim to be the cheapest. The term product is guaranteed renewable till age 100 regardless of medical condition. To someone who is healthy as a claim that doesn’t mean much. To someone with a family history (or a personal history) of cancer (or any of 100 other non-insurable conditions), it is a big deal. How would you like to be the one to explain to a couple that the only options they have is to cancel their policy, reduce coverage, or pay 5x to 10x more to keep their policy when they need the money most for medical bills?

2. Yes other companies pay more for individual sales than Primerica. But your commission numbers are off. Way off actually. 65% for an RVP for investments. It starts at 35% for a Licensed Rep. The real money that is made in Primerica, comes from being an RVP that has built a big team of people. And I don’t mean independent agents, I mean built OTHER RVPs. Like in real estate, do you want to override the work of one office or 6? Or in retail, own 1 store or 20 stores? You make more money by building it big then you do from selling product.

3. Despite popular belief, Primerica is NOT a one size fits all company. None of our products are one size fits all. If you truly understood how the products work, you would not have made that comment. Our life insurance can be customized to have the effect of 10 policies while only having 1. Meaning you can have part of your product fall off when you no longer need it. IE a 30yr level term to cover income replacement, 25 yr rider to cover remainder of the mortgage, 20yr to cover the education for the kids and a 10yr to cover debt. That would be one policy instead of 4. A price reduction based on total coverage, not individual policies. Also, 3 less policy fees. I have yet to see a policy from another company do this.

Also, did you know that the reason we have Level Term in the first place is because AL Williams created it?

4. It is true the company owns your clients. There are good and bad things about this. It is my belief it is done to protect the client, not the company. It was rampant several years ago (hear say so take this or leave it) that agents switched carriers every couple years and re-issued the old policies under the new carrier so they could just keep their commissions without having to grow. If that was true, is it better or worse for the client to always be getting new policies just so the agent gets more commission?

5. It is true you make more money up front on personal production. But do you want to produce all your life or build a team to do the work so you can retire? Many people argue that having to recruit to get promotions is a bad thing. The purpose of this company is to get people to be Business Owners and Investors. Both of which you have PEOPLE or MONEY working for you. Not you for them. Only way to make that happen is to recruit and build. That is true in ANY company.

You may want to read the policy instead of listening to another agent. The only money you can withdraw from a cash value policy without suffering a tax problem is the money you put it that was already taxed. They are tax sheltered investments, but who wants to put money into an investment that, for the first few years, gets a NEGATIVE 100% return? Insurance should never be used as an investment. Universal, and some Variable Universal, Life policies do allow the beneficiaries to receive both the insurance AND the cash value. You must pay MORE for this privilege. Is that right for the client, to have to PAY to receive there own money? Or to pay for those that left behind to get it?

If you do not truly believe that you can retire wealthy without having to work, or for someone to be able to (maybe not decide to) retire at 30, then frankly, you will not make it long in this business. If you do not believe the end result is freedom from others telling you what to do, you do not have the mentality, or the fortitude, to be a business owner in any industry.

I work for Primerica not because of the products, and not the people at the office. I have looked at other companies and seen the results first hand what happens to people I care about. I work with Primerica because of all the companies and products available, they are the only ones more concerned about the consumer than the bottom line.

I have looked at other products, and have not found any better. I have done the math on mortgages (a big headache) and know that a fixed rate simple interest loan paid bi-weekly will be the pants off any other mortgage out there. I know that mutual funds are for the common man who knows little to nothing about investments, but those that are savvy enough, and have the cash to burn, should talk to a stock broker or investment adviser. They will pay less fees. I know that the Long Term Care product we have through Genworth is better than all others because it does not require things that are common in the industry.

All this being said, Primerica is for the faint of heart. I have been offered many jobs at other insurance companies that provide leads, a base salary, and a decent commission. Too bad they would also require me to sell cash value to keep being paid. I have a friend at Edward Jones that even offered me a position. Turned him down.

What I find really interesting is that you only worked for 2 months then listened to a competitor and now you are bashing the company. Did you even get licensed or do any sales? Did you get a promotion? I know you didn’t go on any company trips or pay any death claims.

1. okey so for a family with history of cancer, and if they want to be covered for the rest of their lives isn’t it cheaper to get a whole life policy anyways? And if they are at a higher risk their term would be rated regardless of being with primerica or not. And if they want term they could still get non-cancellable and guaranteed renewable policy from anyone else, because it is not exclusive to primerica.
2. I know my investment numbers from my RVP, what you are saying is insance, nobody pays 65% of investment, you saying if i make a 200 000 investment i get paid 130 000? I know what ive been told in my office and i wrote it down… RVP makes 3.3% investment.
3. Now you are saying like primerica is the only company who offers term riders. Any policy even whole life can offer term riders, and i haven’t seen people being forced to get a second policy to cover their mortgage or children. Maybe some agents do rip off their clients and do that, but i am saying in independant companies you could be fair or not, but u have that option. And what i meant by premerica is like one-size fits all, is because they offer the same product to everybody. You cant assume that everybody only needs term. People have different needs, and different products to address them. What if someone wants to leave an inheritance to their children? cover estate taxes? cover the risk of disease so if they have a critical illness there is still income replacement? Or if their job has a high risk of getting injured and doesnt offer any disability coverage or just not enough of it. See what i mean, you can actually customize the solution with term riders or any other types of insurance.
4.You are generalizing here. You assume just because the agent has the ability to do that that everybody does. I think primerica did that to retain the agents when they find out the truth and decide to take their business elsewhere. Again i am looking at it from a career point of view, and if the agent is responsible and ethical he would have more possibilities working for an independent brokerage. You could work for a firm and you could open your own firm afterwards and still have your clients and referrals.
5. Okey so you agree that you can make more money producing in another company and if you can still build a team as well in independant brokerage, that you will make overrides over , then why would anyone would want to stay in primerica when they find that out. You make more money, and you build a team and can ultimatly open your own office. Same deal, only you make more money. And if the only way to make real money is by recruiting and building a team, everybody would be concetrating on building and not producing. Where is the money coming from? In truth i kno the answer to that, there are recruiters in primerica and there are producers in primerica. The problem is when producers find out they could make x2-3 times more money doing the same thing in another place what would hold them back? … Maybe that contract that primerica owns all their clients?

That is true that the investment doesnt make any money in the first few years, but we are talking about long term investment… What if in the long run it makes more money then another because the grouth is tax sheltered. See the thing about Universal Life is yes they teach you that it is a complete garbage in primerica, and everybody seems to blindly believe that… So when I found out there might actually be a use for it, i started thinking. The way primerica teaches you is still very biased, so i decided not to base what they tell me solely on what they teach me. Truth is i think i know to little of Universal Life to make an educated decision whether its good or bad, thats why I did not start going around canceling all my family friends policies.

Okey you are jumping to conclusions… I never said that I think I have more freedom working for somebody else. Yes i do think that it is impossible to retire early. You can semi retire but when you start your own business you still have to work on managing and maintaining it. If you just trust someone else with your business just because u are too lazy and want to retire then that person might make a few bad decissions and there goes your business… I do want to ultimately run my own business that would operate while im away on vacations, but I would never leave my business entirely to someone else so I could relax for the rest of my life. Maybe primerice system does allow people to never work again and collect in millions… these money come out of the hard working agents that are struggling to make their ends meet. The upline goes way up, and i am not willing to work my ass off just so some person who invited a bunch of people back in the day can relax the remainder of his life.

I dont know who you talked to, but i know that other compaies don’t “require” you to sell cash value, you could make the same or more money then in primeica selling term, yes you will make more selling cash value, but like I said: its up to the agent to be fair. You will not get fired for selling term insurance and you still get 150% commission of that kind of insurance. And you make much more commission of your investments.

I am happy that I only wasted 2 months and not 2 years like some of the people i talked to. I did get a license, but right after that I found out the things that i talked about, and decided not to go ahead and “plan” for my relatives and family friends, because i figured that this might not be in their best interest. I think that to be a true financial adviser you have to be a little more educated then what primerica teaches you. I saw most people are more like salesmen that give the presentation that the company teaches them, get the numbers and then just let the computer do its thing… This is not true financial advising… these people are more like clowns that this article is talking about.

Just to make things clear i did not make this post with the intention to bash primerica, but rather to give people who consider joining this firm more information that I was looking for before I joined the business.

Lastly Ive talked to RVPs who are were serious about this business and never made more then 50000$ a year. I have seen people who left primerica to work in an independent brokerage, and yet i have never seen people that came from these independent brokerages to work in primerica… now how would u explain that?

1. In most cases, Whole life is more expensive. There are policies that also fit in with guaranteed renewable, but most are not LEVEL renewable. Primerica policies renew to another level term product without doing anything (one restriction applies). Just because they have a history of it (or previously had it) does not mean they will automatically get rated. In most cases, after 5 years of being cancer free, we will cover normally. They may not get Preferred or Preferred plus, but they wont be rated either.

2. Most investment firms have a dealer re-allowance. From that is where the commission is taken from, not from the whole investment amount. That is basic knowledge for anyone dealing with investments.

3. I never said ours was the only one. I know whole life can have Term Riders, but how many other Term products can have Term riders? I don’t know of many. I know we don’t have products to cover all situations (another reason we are NOT a one size fits all company), but that may change once the sell is complete.

4. It was a generalized statement because it did happen. Not all agents did that, but many did. I still believe it is a matter of protecting the consumer, not the agent.

5. Because you only make more on personal production. From all the commission and override charts I have looked at from other companies, you make little money on overrides and bonuses. I did a comparison with HBW’s structure. Just on overrides, Primerica paid about 4x more. Upfront, HBW paid about twice as much. On the back end though, they lacked.

I never said Universal was complete garbage, but who would invest in something that LOSES value the first few years. You can get better returns by investing in Mutual Funds and have substantially more at retirement than in a Universal (or any other cash SURRENDER value policy). Do the math. You can have tax sheltered accounts that will earn much more than ANY cash value policy out there.

What conclusion? I pulled from what you wrote. You don’t believe it is possible to retire by 30 or to never work again. That is the logic of an EMPLOYEE. If you are a business owner, you do not have to work. The business brings in the income and you just live. Being an Investor is even better, then the money is working for you. Read Cash Flow Quadrant by Robert Kiyosaki.

They may not require it, but they also don’t have to pay you on time for selling term. It has happened to many agents. They try to sell only term, then there commissions start getting “lost” or “delayed in processing.” Sell only term for 6 months and see what happens to your checks.

Letting the computer do the work saves the agent about 5 hours of processing. What the agent does with the report decides how good they are. Any agent that just blindly follows it is a poor agent. That goes for any company.

It’s a shame that the RVPs you talked with only make $50k. I work with 4 that make over $150k and 2 more that are quickly approaching the $100k mark. I have also had the pleasure of working with some making $2 million plus.

Primerica isn’t meant for the salesman (most independent firms), Primerica was built for the average Joe to learn about finances, become debt free and financially independent. Most don’t come from independent firms because they know its a pay cut, don’t believe in the network marketing model, don’t like being forced to recruit to get promotions, have a bad taste in their mouth from so many policies being replaced, etc. Take your pick.

I’ve met several that the only reason they DIDN’T join was because of the network marketing method and the forced to recruit to get promotions side of things. They also failed to realize WHY that is the case.

1.What i meant is renewing a term policy until 100 years old, even though they may not get rated will be more expansive then whole life, because after your term expires your rate (even though remains level for the next period) increases substantially. The whole point of term according to primerica is to cover you until you have accumulated wealth for yourself, so insurance should not be permanent. Now if this really is the philosophy of primerica then why charge extra for guaranteed renewable? if somebody plans to have insurance for the rest of their life, then whole life would be more cost efficient and they can use it for inheritance or whatnot. The point is in an independent brokerage you have the option to give the client the same renewable term, or you can have cheaper non-renewable, or you can have a cash value u have the option to offer any of these according to the clients need and desire.
2. Okey so maybe I have to apologize that in primerica they did not teach me the common method used for estimating investment commission in the industry. That is one of the things that bothered me most about this company, is that you are not shown the complete picture but rather just things from primerica point of view. The way I was told when I was recruited and through out this whole time is like I said 1% of the investment, 3.3% at RVP. Regardless of which method you use your commission will be much higher in another firm, and it would be easier to retain your team.
3.Okey so you agree then that primerica then doesnt suit all people? There is only one specific type of people that are in a predefined situation that only then primerica will work for them? What i meant by one size fits all is that they can only have one solution, and you better hope that it would suit your clients needs, otherwise you have to push them so you make a sale or you leave them alone because you cannot actually help them. And what do you mean by that changes once the sale is complete that may change?
4. My argument that it is done to protect the company and not the agent or client. Churning and twisting is illegal. Isn’t there regulations in the industry to control that anyways?
5. Well different companies have different structures on overrides, but once you have your team (which as i said would be easier to build because they get paid more), you could start your own company and set-up the override and commission structure the way you and your team wants. And I know people working in independent brokerages that make three figure incomes without having any overrides.

Maybe you dont have to do the physical work in the field like seeing clients, but you still have to manage your business that is what I referred to as work. And I wasn’t only talking about primerica or financial idustry. Like I said this could work for primerica but any successful business that i know, owner still prefers to have a say in the company, and successful investors still bothers to ask and in some ways regulate the company they invested in because they do not want to loose their money.

See that is the problem with the network marketing model is that the people who reap the benefits of it its the people who bring a lot of people and not the people who do a lot of work, these people are usually the ones who suffer and are underpaid. Now if everyone wants to be successful, everyone wants to build the business and not work them self that creates a problem as people concentrate on bringing people and not working, where is all the money coming from. To build a huge business you need to recruit like crazy, and how would you retain your workers once they find out they could be making more money, because not everybody will be able to constantly bringing heavy volumes of recruits. The only way to retain them as ive noticed is to constantly talk about dreams of building a huge business and what you would spend your money on, but nothing tangible, and only 5% in the company actually make it there, that is a lot of lying.

1. Primerica rates will not sky rocket with the auto renewal feature. Previous policies did do this as do other companies. The current product offered renews based on obtained age at the same category (preferred plus to preferred plus, preferred to preferred, etc.). It gives this option to those that either do not have the money set aside to retire and still need the protection, or for those that wish to keep protection. The product will stay affordable all the way to age 100.

2. A higher commission will not equal keeping and recruiting a bigger team. It simply means being paid more. If you recruit the right people, and the right kind of people, the commission doesn’t matter. I know I can make more else where but I am not here to make shit loads of cash. I am here to protect families from the atrocities my family has gone through from simple mistakes. From what I have uncovered, no other company will let me do that, and do it my way.

3. No 2 plans are alike and anyone who does believe we are a one size fits all company, truly knows nothing about this company. When the sale happens in the next few weeks (I believe it will be the next few weeks anyways), changes will start happening. The belief is higher commissions, even better products, and I believe even a wider variety of products.

4. There are regulations. Twisting may not apply because it may truly be a better product. Churning might not either if the agent gave the client the option of either or. It is all a matter of how the agent presented it. The fact of the matter, it very well could have hurt the client when they least expected it. If you get down to it, going from Term to Whole Life could be considered Twisting. As well as moving from Level Guaranteed Renewable to Guaranteed Level. In both cases the premium is either going up or removing a feature. In order to prevent twisting, it must be for like to like or better.

5. Hate to tell you, but the insurance companies set the commissions for there products, not the agent. Also, just because you can pay the agent more does not mean you have a better quality of agent. I could make a killing off of selling Cash Value policies, but I choose to sell term. What was that saying again? Sell Cash Value to Eat, Sell Term to Sleep?

Business Owners and Investors do NOT need to manage their money or businesses. They have people do that. They may choose to, but they do not have to. Do you think Warren Buffet manages his 150+ Starbucks? Those that fit these categories hire (or recruit) people they trust to run it for them so they don’t have to worry about it. That is a benefit to being one.

You are mistaking about Network Marketing. It is one of the best ways to make money. Robert Kiyosaki agrees with it. Granted it is not gospel, but where else can hard work truly pay off. Yes you have to recruit, but you also have to work your ass off to train those new people, train their people, and so on and so forth. You have to manage all of them. Keep their spirits up when they get down from someone telling them “No.” With Network Marketing, you have to work twice as hard at first to get half as much. A little down the road, you get just as much with less work. A little farther, you do half the work and get paid twice the pay. Near the end, you do none of the work and get paid all of it. It takes time.

The best way to get your own dreams, is to help others achieve theirs. That is how Network Marketing works. If you do not understand that concept, I implore you to change your thinking.

I work full time and make a good living with a manufacture in Ontario, also my wife makes great money ($37/hour) just recently I was approched by a family member who is an employee of PFC. I went to a meeting and yes they are very convincing with the “show” they put on but there were REAL people there and I spoke to them and to be honest I was impressed with what they told me. Look these financial companies are going to bash eachother whenever they have the chance and that will go on forever but if you don’t take a chance once and a while your never going to know what could have been. Don’t forget you can do this PART TIME and don’t have to quit your day job, it’s an opportunity to do something different and make money while your helping others. You don’t have to get licenced in mutual funds and other investments right away you can start buy talking to others about what you are doing and how it helped you, you can build a clientle for you once you get licenced in life insurance, that’s what I want to do. There are many products you can sell without getting licenced with PFC, then build that team to help you. My goal is if I can make $3-4000 a month part-time then I’m a happy camper, but I will never know unless I try. Every company in the world trains,recruits,use refferals,cold calls,sets appointments all do this. CIBC will say they are better than RBC, RBC says they are better than Royal Bank, Royal Bank says they are better than BMO and on and on and on. So I am going to try it for my family and see what happens, you talk about loosing you clients when you leave the company, I don’t know about you but if I am with an organization for years and I’m happy and protected and my agent calls and says “you are with me now not PFC” I will freak out and do what I can to stay with PFC or whoever I am with. THEY PROTECT THERE CLIENTS NEEDS. Just like everybody else says they do. Get licenced for life insurance and you can do not only that but debt consolidation,legal wills,car and auto,mortgage consulting,credit in general. You can keep going on your own or have people do it for you that’s the best part. 2 families a week is all you really need to have a comfortable PART TIME income.

by: Carol Richardson | November 13th, 2008 (6:24 pm)

I have a question ,What happens to my moeny when I cancel my family plan,, paying approx. 60. /mo. I have been with PFC for over 18 months. I am a single Mom. I had to cancel for serious financial reasons. What happens to my monies that I invested in, do I loose everything?? am i able to get somthing back? I am unable to reach my Rep. so i have decided to ask here.


Let me see if I can help you Carol. I’m assuming you have a typo and meant PFS. I’m also assuming you are paying $60/month for your PFS life insurance policy. You’re saying you need to stop paying for your life insurance because of a serious financial set-back and you’re wondering if you get any money back. The short answer is no. Term life insurance is pure life insurance. There are no bells and whistles with term, no fancy savings account (cash value, which is a rip-off). Just like your auto insurance or your homeowners insurance, if you stop paying your premiums, you’re not going to get a check. Now you may be wondering why this is. Well, consider this. If you had purchased a cash value policy like whole life or universal life, your premium for that same amount of insurance would have been 5 to 10 times as much as the $60 a month you are paying for the term product you have. Cash value premiums are ALWAYS more than term for the same amount of insurance. That would be 100% of the time. Let’s go with the low number and assume your premium would have been around 5 times as much. That means you would have been paying $300 a month for the last 18 months for the same amount of insurance. And guess what? Because of how surrender charges work in cash value insurance, you would get nothing back being only 18 months into your policy. Most cash value policies have 100% surrender charges for the first 3 to 5 years. What a wonderful savings vehicle huh? So you could have paid $300 a month, canceled your policy and get nothing back or pay $60 a month for your PFS term policy, canceled it and get nothing back. Which one is better? Now what if you had still “invested” $300 into your PFS plan? Well, $240 would have gone into a savings account like an IRA or maybe we would have had you bump up your 401(k) by $240. Either way, you would have around $4,320 ($240 X 18 months) that would be yours and you could tap it if you really needed to. Why, because your IRA or 401(k) don’t have ANY surrender charges. Zero, zilch, nada, didly sqaut! So $300 a month with a cash value policy and end up with nothing, or $300 a month doing what we suggest and have $4,320. I don’t know. You choose. Hope this helps.


If you can’t afford to have insurance, you can’t afford NOT to have it. If something were to happen to you with a policy in force, your children (assuming they are the beneficiaries) would receive the payout. If you do not have one, someone has to pay to bury you, no one will receive money to help raise your kids, and your assets will need to be sold to cover your debts again leaving your kids with nothing.

It doesn’t matter who you have for life insurance. If you can’t afford to have it, you can’t afford to be without it. Since you can’t get a hold of the agent that wrote the policy, you can change the agent by making a phone call (should be in the policy, front page).

by: The Financial Blogger | November 14th, 2008 (7:03 am)


Insurance is probably the most annoying expense you have in your budget. However, Richard is right, if you stop your insurance due to financial problems, it’s like gambling at the casino that you will be alive and top shape next. Nobody knows. if you have dependents (children, brother, sister), they would be in a deep hole if anything happens to you AND you canceled your policy as well.

Hope you find a great solution and you keep your life insurance policy.

by: Jose Soberanes | November 27th, 2008 (12:59 am)

I have worked with American General, New York Life and now independent. I have been in the life insurance biz for 9 years. Its simple people, if you get agents from NYL, Prudential, Northwest Mutual, Hartford, Transamerica, Farmers, Allstate, and any other large life insurance provider in a room together you feel that all these agents have a somewhat mutual respect for each other. If you ask them what they do and where they work, they will clearly tell you what they do and where they work. If you add a Primerica agent it the room all respect is lost. Why? Because they hide at what they do, and they offer term and invest the difference. When we sit down with client, the clients will let us know what product will suit their situation, not this product will meet your situation. It pretty sad that these agents are allowed to function as they do.


If you look at the history of the insurance industry, you will find that all those companies work together day in and day out to get Primerica shut down. Not because Primerica does bad things, but because Primerica shows the wrongs of the industry as a whole, and corrects them.

If I recall correctly, within a few months of AL Williams being formed, while still limited to just Georgia, there were already bullitens in ALL 50 states “warning” people of the dangers of the company. 32 years later, Primerica is still here and one of the, if not the, strongest of all. (Look at last quarter earnings. I believe Primerica was the only one with profits and no debt).

It’s a shame. The industry could have quashed AL Williams if they just fougt fair instead of using under handed tackets to discredit the company, like you just did.

If you doubt any of this, look at the history of all the companies, the regulatory fines imposed, etc. If my history is correct, Primerica has only had a $13.5k fine imposed over wording on a brochure. Prudential had a $220 MILLION fine imposed over twisting policies and defamation, items your companies accused Primerica of doing.

Since you assume I have no credit for being associated with Primerica, don’t take my word for any of this and look it up. When you see I am right, please post back and let everyone know.

Jose can you see? Why is the industry so anti-Primerica? Is it because for 32 years we have exposed your corrupt industry for what it is? Is it because 32 years ago we gave you the first taste of actual competition and you didn’t know how to handle it? And you still don’t. What you said in your post should make every consumer in America shudder. When agents from supposedly competing companies can get together in the same room and sing Coom-buy-yaaaaaaaaa, there is something terribly wrong with that industry. Maybe you all can get together and have a warm-fuzzy while you laugh at how much you are screwing the consumer. But as for me, I will continue to do what’s right for them. Here’s a personal question for you Jose. Do you own the same crap you sell? My money says you own term, but you sell trash value. That’s the standard MO for the trash value industry. I have yet to run into any of you who owns the same crap you sell. You all own term on your own life, but you screw your clients with complete financial garbage!

by: Jose Soberanes | December 1st, 2008 (12:19 am)

Richard & Eric,

When I have replaced about 20-25 over priced term policies from Primerica in the past 7 plus years with universal, whole and term polices that is not competition. You are not the competition, the competition are all the other respected financial firms I mentioned before, that is my competion.

That same room are NAIFA meetings, that’s the association that caters to us professionals. Are you a NAIFA member? Do you have any designations from The Americal College? LUTCF, CLU, ChFc, etc…What is right for the client is what THEY tell you they need when you meet with them NOT what you think they need before you even know the client..

I will not have communication with tunnel vision unproffesional individuals. So keep your full time and part time jobs as they are and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Oh! by the way, I carry a $250,000 whole life policy from New York Life which I bought 7 years ago and a 1.5 million dollar 30 year term policy I purchased about 4 years ago from AIG/American General.

Communication is terminated.


After 7 years, prices get cheaper. It is not surprising you were able to beat the price. But just because you replaced them, does not mean it was a better choice for the client. Ultimately, the client has to decide that and not us.

Since when did letters after the name meant one was qualified to be anything? When I went to tech school, I had an instructor with half a dozen abbreviations after his name from the likes of CompTIA, Microsoft, Cisco, etc. I was teaching the classes with nothing after my name while he was learning from me. I was the student mind you.

For a price, a “lady of the night” will cater to a professional. NAIFA requires fees to join. I can think of better uses for my money than paying an organization to do what Primerica already does for me for free.

After looking at what the benefits are for membership, I see that one would get screwed either way. I get the software as part of my $300 annual to POL. That includes all updates to the software as well as the software itself, access to Morningstar (~$1500/yr), my E&O Paid for (~$600/yr), WinFlex (LTC Illustrations. Can’t find it’s price), quick access to the latest regulatory information, on call lawyers and advisers at home office, licensing information for all 50 states and then some, plus much more. In addition to what I am already saving by not being what you call a “professional,” what incentive would I have to spend ANOTHER $480/yr plus the price of the “benefits?”

So by being a Primerica agent, I am saving close to $3k/year if not more, for being a “tunneled visioned unprofessional.”

My clients do tell me what they want. I only suggest certain products after getting to know them.

You call me names without getting to know me, how unprofessional of a professional. As for your policies, you admit that you carry a $250k OVER PRICED term policy with a very poor savings plan and a separate $1.5m term policy from a company under investigation for squandering tax payers money after having questionable business practices.

It’s a shame you wont continue the conversation and instead doing what a traditional, whole life agent would do when faced with facts from a Primerica agent. Run. At least that has been my experience and that of my fellow agents.

Did everyone notice how Jose did the old cut and run? As for all these industry designations, I’d just use them for toilet paper! Here’s the only credentials I need to have. I had a Universal Life policy. I paid into that piece of crap for 11 years. It wasn’t until an unprofessional, non-credentialed, part time Primerica agent came to my house and had the guts to sit down with me at my own kitchen table that I learned the terrible truth about what I had. We looked at my latest statement. On the back it gave me the month and year my policy would run out of money. That date was 34 years from the date I purchased that policy. You know what happens when your UL runs out of money? You have 2 choices. Either you let your insurance lapse and cancel or you begin paying outrageous premiums. So what I really had was a 34 year term policy. That’s how I looked at it. There was no chance this policy was going to make it to age 95. Try age 67. Here’s the rub. I could have purchased a 30 year term policy from Primerica for less than half of what my UL cost me. Now I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being ripped off. I bought my UL with the absolute intention that it would last my entire life. Did it? Not even close. See, for 11 years I should have read the fine print on the back of my statement. But being a normal human being, I didn’t. And I’ll bet 99% of the people who read this don’t either. Well you better. I poured money down a rat hole for 11 years, how about you? I don’t need some fancy letters after my name to have some common sense, pull my head out of my rear end and actually read. And you know what? It was a guy with all those fancy letters after his name who sold me that piece of crap. You can take all your fancy letters and do you know what with them. So Jose says he owns whole life. Well that just proves how stupid someone can be who has letters after his name.

Financial Blogger is nothing but a cry baby who loves to give out information based on their own feelings, somewhat misleading since is based on one’s own feelings. You might be good at arguing and fighting for your own opinion on something, but look, it is not about Primerica anymore, you need some help. What you are doing is not an act of god, you should stop give out your own opinion on something, but instead, letting people search on their own, market equilibrium will balance out the right and wrong ones. And you, can save some breath. There is no need to to discuss about Primerica since we are not on the same level in term of understanding a matter and goals.


If you would bother to understand what TFB did, you would not have written that.

TFB wrote his opinion based on what he experienced and understood. He then asked for clarification from those outside of his local area to get a better idea.

You may also want to double check your state laws as well as the compliance handbook. I believe you just violated both by directly insulting him without regard for facts. That being said, I have no problem insulting people if the facts support it :).

And if you believe you can do a better job, do it and stop complaining. Stop being part of the 95% of people who would rather complain than work, and work.


I am sorry but I could not overlook your decription of my whole life policy. Did you call it a savings plan, where in the name did you get that its a savings plan. Who told you it was a savings plan? I am just amazed!!! Whole life is a permamant life insurance policy. This policy will cover some of the estate taxes that will have to be paid when my children inherit my belongings. It is an estate transfer tool to offset estate taxes!!!

Cash value policies have 2 parts. Term insurance and a savings component. Hence the savings plan feature. Just because that part may not be used, does not mean it is not available. The policy just may be designed so that all the premiums go to the company and there is nothing left over. Read your policy, it’s in there.

The other side of it is that the whole life policy’s cash value will never exceed the death benefit, in effect, you are saving money to cover your own death reducing what the insurance company has to pay.

Same thing with the guaranteed acceptance policies that are always advertised. After a couple years, you have paid enough into that policy to equal the face amount.

Insurance is a way to cover against an unexpected loss. That is all it is. There are other ways of reducing or eliminating estate taxes altogether. Do you really think Warren Buffet or Bill Gates (their respective heirs) are going to be paying estate taxes? And no, they didn’t spend money on a whole life policy.

As far as where I learned that from? All the cash value/whole life policies I have replaced. It’s in the fine print, but it’s in there.

Calculators don’t lie Jose. Check out the October 2007 issue of Inc. Magazine. There is an article in there about life insurance for estate planning purposes. They give the numbers on a guy who purchases a $500,000 whole life policy at age 38. He will pay $14,400 per year for 15 years and then his policy is paid up. That’s $1,200 a month for 180 months for a grand total of $216,000. The article then goes on to say that he COULD (emphasis added) have $3 million in this policy at age 80. First of all, the $3 million at age 80 is a lie. By definition, you cannot have more monies in cash value than the face amount of the policy. If that happens, the policy is in danger of turning into a MEC (Modified Endowment Contract). Whole life is designed so that your cash value exactly equals your death benefit on your 100th birthday. So I don’t believe for a minute that his policy COULD have $3 million at age 80. It WILL have $500,000 on his 100th birthday. Elaine Appleton Grant who wrote the article obviously doesn’t know diddly about how life insurance works. Oh, but she can sure write about it!

So enough of that, let’s crunch some numbers. This 38 year old could have purchased a $500,000 30 year term policy for around $100 a month. So let’s see how much he would have in savings if he put the $1,100 a month “difference” into a good solid mutual fund that historically averages around 8%. If you crunch the numbers on that, he has $380,000 in savings at the end of 15 years. Keep in mind he still have 15 years to go on his 30 year term policy. So if he were to die right now, his heirs would get $880,000. Right? How much would his heirs get with his 15 pay whole life? $500,000. Now let’s figure out how much he will have in savings when his 30 year term runs out. To compare apples to apples, he now stops putting $1,100 a month into savings and pulls his $100 a month premium from his $380,000 in savings. So in other words, his “buy term and invest the difference” plan is now paid up. If we continue to use 8%, he has $1.25 million in savings when his term policy runs out. He is now 68 years old and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t give a crap that his life insurance no longer exists. So how much does he have at age 80? $3.2 million. So at 8% he DOES have $3 million instead of COULD have (which is a lie). If he does 1% better and averages 9%, he has $4.7 million at age 80.

I don’t know how you can look yourself in the mirror every monrning doing what you do to people.

By the way, here’s the link.


It pretty obvious nobody has taught you the great benefits of whole life, especially from New York Life and Northwest Mutual. The outstanding part about these policies from both of these companies is that they are mutual companies. meaning that they are private companies. Meaning that when you own a whole life insurance policy from both of them you are given dividends from the profits of the company when thay are declared. The policy owners are the owners of the company. These polices will never MEC because when you are paid dividends from the profits of the company you use it to buy more whole life insurance. So as your covergae grows your cash value grows. Also, there comes a time somewhere about 13 or 14th year of the policy that the policy starts paying for itself. The yield has grown so much that it can sustain itself without additional premiums. The beauty about these policies is when you start withdrawing money out for retirement along with your ROTH IRA mutual funds you have no income tax to declare, they are both tax free withdrawls. Now, would you rather have 3 million tax free to pull out or 3.2 million to pull out TAXED. Richard you need to open your mind and accept the fact that there are other programs that do a better job in certain situation. Some times term and invest the diffrence works, I’ve sold that., but sometimes it does not. Why do you thing I am indepedent, only me and the client together decide what is best for the client, not New York Life, not AIG not Priamerica! Only the client and myself.


Please tell me you are smarter than you are sounding right now? You would be fined and have your license revoked for some of what you just wrote.

1st, the dividends paid by a participating mutual insurance company is a return of OVER PAID premium, NOT a sharing of profits. I used to have a policy through one.

A Sharing of profits requires it to be a stock company.

2nd, the reason the policy no longer need premiums after a specified period of time is because the policies are designed to be that way. At such a time, the cash value has grown to cover the cost of the insurance. The person is still paying for the insurance, just not out of pocket anymore. The catch is if the cash value reaches 0, then the policy owner is responsible for the premiums. However, that is only ever in issue with Universal, Variable, and Variable Universal policies.

3rd, unless the policy is designed with an increasing benefit rider, the cash value will not exceed the face amount. In universal, variable, and variable universal, the face amount changes based on the value of the underlying investments of the cash value account.

4th, Money in a Roth is pulled out tax free because of tax law, any money pulled from a cash value policy is taxed based on if the money was already taxed or not. In other words, if the amount you have taken out exceeds what you have put in, you are taxed on the overage. This usually does not happen because it is rare to ever have enough cash value in the policy equal to the amount you have paid.

TFB, Have I missed anything?


Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!! You know nothing of the sort. I am so sorry you are so intrenched in your thoughts. What a pitty!! Do yourself a favor and go to newyorklife,com and see it for yourself.


I have been wrong before, but have a look at the following links.


“Whenever the performance of the life insurance company is better than anticipated, assumed or projected the policy owner participates in this good performance. Payment of a life insurance dividend indicates that the life insurance company’s operating expenses, risk selection and management experience has been better than expectations.”

In other words the company did better than expected and over charged for the policy and returned the overage.


“These policies would typically cost more up front, since the insurance company needs to build up sufficient cash value within the policy during the payment years to fund the policy for the remainder of the insured’s life.”

Limited Pay policies are required to have higher premiums so that the cash value builds up enough to cover the cost of the policy.


“Traditional whole life insurance–guaranteed premiums … However, the cash value can potentially grow beyond its guaranteed amount through the payment of dividends.”
— In this case, dividends are use to purchase additional paid up policies to increase the death benefit.

“Variable life–you make the investment decisions … “If the cash value account exceeds a certain amount, the death benefit will increase.”

“Variable universal life–the ultimate in flexibility … As with both variable and universal life insurance, your policy may lapse if the cash value account falls below a certain level. … However, keep in mind that your policy’s face amount is reduced by the amount of a policy withdrawal”

“Universal life–openness and flexibility … Reducing or increasing premiums will impact the growth of the cash value component and possibly the death benefit.”


“Cash value increases within the policy are not subject to income taxes unless certain events occur. For this reason, insurance policies can be a legal and legitimate tax shelter wherein savings can increase without taxation until the owner withdraws the money from the policy.”

In other words, you can withdrawal the money you were already taxed on, tax free. Any new money will be taxed.

Roth IRAs on the other hand, allow for tax FREE withdrawals.

A properly trained life insurance and securities licensed agent would know this.

You say I am wrong, provide links and documents from third party sources (not from insurance companies). Everything I have stated is in your policy and in the tax code.

If this is the kind of advice you give your clients, I hope your E&O insurance is paid up and in good order.

by: The Financial Blogger | December 4th, 2008 (10:41 pm)

Richard, Eric, Jose,

I just came back from a 3 days congress (I was still posting everyday – thx to scheduled post feature!- but didn’t have time to access my blog) and this is why I didn’t comment yet on your debate;-)

While I am not an insurance expert (Financial Planner get basic training on insurance (45 hours on it) and i don’t have any insurance license, I have a few things to point out.

#1 Cash Surrender Value is definitely used to pay off the insurance premium at one point. Depending on how your CSV is invested, you may or may not have to pay for your premium anymore. However, in any case, your CSV will grow as a much lower rate when you stop using your own money to pay the premium (since CSV growth and maybe capital will be used to pay that premium).

#2 Jose, I am not quite sure I get how your 3M$ whole life policy is built (or maybe it’s just that I am to burnt from my 3 days party… I mean congress 😉 hehehe). Can you write more about it?

#3 From what I have read, participating insurance policy receive dividend from the insurance company. If the company is not making money, they would obviously not give a high dividend (they might cut it completely, right?). It is a sort of profit sharing, isn’t?

#4 The bigger advantage of the tax sheltering side of a whole life is that when you die, all this money is free of taxes and had increased tax sheltered during all those years. It can be a really good way to increase your investment and save taxes.

I don’t mind if you continue this debate on this blog, but please be respectful… I would hate to edit your comments 😉



Profit sharing requires being a direct part of the business (employee or stock holder). A customer does not get that. The dividends are only paid if the company did well, meaning less payouts or better management resulting in less fees needing to be charge. Since they beat their budget, they return some of that money back to the customers in the form of either paid up policies or a check.

Tax sheltering is one thing, tax free withdrawals (which Jose was in reference to) is something completely different. And in the case of a death benefit, unless it is designed into the policy, or paid extra for, the beneficiaries only get the death benefit OR the cash, but not both.

Jose, maybe you could explain to all the people who are witnessing our debate just exactly how you make a tax free withdrawal from a cash value policy. Better yet, I’ll do it for you. Let’s suppose you have a VUL you bought when you were young and you are now retiring and planning on using this “tax free” withdrawal program that is always touted by the trash value industry. Let’s suppose you have 1 million in your cash value and you are 67 years old. There are only 2 ways to access the cash in a cash value policy. Either you cancel your policy and you take all your money out, which is a taxable event IF your cash value exceeds the premiums paid for all those years. If your cash value does not exceed all of your premiums paid, there is no tax because the IRS says you lost money. Now if the IRS says I lost money, then I lost money. I don’t care what you or any other trash value agent has to say about that. The IRS isn’t stupid. But let’s suppose my 1 million cash value is more than the premiums paid. Therefore, canceling my policy and taking everything out creates taxable event. So to avoid that, I keep my policy in force and begin taking monthly withdrawals. How do I do this? By taking a policy loan. Since it is “borrowed” money, I don’t pay tax. Have I said anything incorrect so far? Don’t think so. Here’s the rub. I have to pay you around 6% interest on all monies I take out, oops, borrow out. And I have to pay that 6% in advance. Even the mafia doesn’t charge me interest in advance! So let’s say I take $60,000 a year out. That’s a $5,000 a month “loan”. That’s means I’m paying you $300 a month in interest and I get $4,700. So I took out, oops, borrowed $60,000 and only got $56,400. 1 year goes by and it’s now the 13th month I’m taking, oops, borrowing money out. Now I’m paying $600 a month in interest (which is 12% of my monthly withdrawal) because I owe you $300 on the $5,000 I took out last year and $300 on the $5,000 it took out this month. So now I’m only getting $4,400 a month. Guess what happens in month 25? That’s right, $900 a month in interest (which is 18% of my monthly withdrawal). In month 37, $1,200 a month in interest (24% of my monthly withdrawal). Every year my interest goes up $300 a month. As you can see, the longer you do this, the worse it gets. And I’m being generous because I’m not even calculating the compounding effect. How exactly is this better than paying taxes? How does this possibly trump a 401(k) or an IRA? It doesn’t. Unless you’re really, really, really stupid!

P.S. Richard is right about dividends. Why are life insurance dividends not taxable? Because they are not income. They are a refund of overpayment of premium. If a dividend was generated from the profits of the company, then you bet the IRS would be all over that. If I own stock in General Electric and I get a dividend, that dividend is taxable. If I own a trash value policy from New York Life and I get a dividend, it’s not taxable because the IRS knows dang good and well I’m just being refunded how much I was overcharged. Life insurance dividends have NOTHING to do with the profits of a company.

And to you Financial Blogger, that sound like a party I should have been at. Daaaaaang!

Jose, I forgot one thing. I have been taught the great benefits of a New York Life or Northwestern Mutual whole life policy. You benefit tremendously from the HUGE commissions generated from the sale of these pieces of garbage. Why don’t you disclose how much you would make on a 1 million whole life policy with a monthly premium of say, $800 a month? Here’s how much I make on a 1 million 30 year term with a monthly premium of $150. I make $1,600 as a Primerica RVP. How much is your “benefit”? Why don’t you come clean and expose the real reason you sell this stuff? My guess is you make north of $10,000 on a policy like that. Am I wrong?


Some cash value policies do allow for withdrawal of funds instead of a loan. It is not talked about much though.

On top of that, one is not required to pay back a policy loan, it is just optional if one wants to receive the full death benefit. Someone can elect to take out a policy loan and never pay it back.

Here are the tax advantages of cash value life insurance.
You pay NO current income tax on interest or other earnings credited to cash value. As the cash value accumulates, it is not subject to current taxation.
You pay NO income tax if you borrow cash value from the policy through loans. Which means loans are treated as debts, not taxable distributions. This can give you virtually unlimited access to cash value on a tax-advantaged basis. Also, these loans need not be repaid. After a sizable amount of cash value has built up, it can be borrowed against systematically to help supplement retirement income and in many cases, never pay one cent of income tax on the gain.
Your heirs pay NO income tax on proceeds. Your beneficiaries receive death benefits completely free of income taxation. Therefore, a $500,000 policy delivers $500,000 in benefits with no deductions and no withholding required.
You can avoid potential estate taxes and probate costs on policy proceeds, as long as the beneficiary designations and policy ownership are arranged in accordance with current law.

Enough said. You live your life and I will live mine. Last transmittal. On vacation till January 5th. Give thanks to God for all that you have. Merry Christmas Everyone.

In most cases, there is no income tax on the growth while the money is in the policy.

Tax free loans are tax free, BECAUSE THEY ARE LOANS. They are not withdrawals. There is a distinction.

You are right that you do not need to pay them back, however, any unpaid loans will come out of the death benefit plus unpaid interest.

So a $500k CV policy with no loans, will pay $500k to the beneficiaries tax free. If paid to the estate, tax problems could occur.

A $500k CV with a $300k loan will pay less than $200k to the beneficiaries.

All of this is in your policy. Since you don’t believe me, take a look yourself. I believe it is called a “wash loan provision.”

(begin sarcasm)
But then again, I’m just a part time agent so what would I know right? You are the full time professional after all, right?
(end sarcasm)

Sorry Jose, but not enough said. You didn’t list one tax advantage that is not already available in a 401(k) or an IRA. You’re trying to make it sound as if trash value life insurance is the only tax advantaged vehicle our wonderful government allows us to have. You also didn’t explain how paying interest that compounds is better than paying taxes. And, you didn’t tell us how much you make on a big fat trash value policy. I wonder why you danced around that one?

What’s your fascination with getting a death benefit? If it were free, then hallalujah! Come on Jose, you know better than that. Have you ever looked at the cost of insurance table in a UL or VUL policy? You make it sound as if your $500,000 death benefit is free or something. Well it aint! It gets friggin dang expensive the older you get. Just like the IRS, insurance companies are not stupid. Do you really think that you are going to get more of a benefit from sending them your hard earned dollars every month than what they are going to get from it? No way. Never. Not in this world. Even with term insurance, the company will always win. Life insurance is a very expensive fact of life. It’s bad enough to have to pay for even a term policy when the odds say you will never see the benefit. Life insurance is the most expensive financial product that one can own. Why would you keep paying for it one second longer than you need it? The older you get, the more it costs. Just look at the cost of insurance table in a UL. Look at it this way:

Life Insurance:
Die young, your heirs win. Live long, you lose.

Die young, your heirs lose, Live long, you win.

That is why Primerica believes so strongly in the theory of decreasing responsibility. You can bet that when my house if paid off and I have enough money saved up and my kids are out of the house, my life insurance is going bye bye. Yours should too. And don’t give me your argument about estate taxes. 99% of Americans won’t have an estate large enough to worry about. One reason may be because they got ripped off by plowing huge amounts of money their entire life into the garbage you sell. Hmmmmmmm.

Merry Christmas to you too. I hope your clients have enough money to have one!

I am a newly minted Primerica Agent. I just finished the book “COACH” and from what I have read in this book and what I have discovered from my own limited research in the Insurance industry, is that the whole life scam was and is a major money maker for legal crooks called Life Insurance agents. I have personally read some whole life and VUL variations that have the theft hidden in the tiny, tiny words that fill the pages of a very sweet commission for the agent.

So far, I have not witnessed nor heard about any Primerica product that is not a straight forward and honest product for the client. I have never been asked or pressured to do anything unethical.

What I have also noticed is the absolutely venomous hatred by the rest of the insurance industry for Primerica. The anti-Primerica blog debates are populated with people like Jose, people who either chose to dissemble for profit or truly do not know what they are doing.

I am brand new at this and have much to learn, but I know that A.L. Williams started something that has the entire insurance industry howling with fear and rage. They have been howling for 30+ years and I expect they will continue to howl forever. Unprincipled greed will do that to you.

My parents used to make jokes about politicians, used car salesmen and life insurance agents. Now I know why.


Financial Blogger,

I must tell you, I was in Primerica and was given the promotion of Division by my RVP and didn’t even earn it the way the company guidelines say, but because I was the only one left on his team he gave it to me.

Most Primerica agents (not newbies who quit after 2 weeks) but people who go in, get a license or three, and stay in for a while, including the high-level folks like RVP’s and SNSD’s are kool-aid servers and kool-aid drinkers.

They have not been exposed to much outside of Primerica, so they’ll go around telling people that Primerica’s the only company out there that pays death benefits for terrorist attacks, or that Primerica’s the only company out there that has a terminal illness benefit, or that only Primerica offers 35 year term. All the other companies that sell term only go up to 30. I’ve found other compnies out there with 35 year term and with term to age 90, even.

They still hold the mantra of Whole vs. Term. The fact is nobody (unless their parents bought it for them as a child) has whole life anymore. It’s no longer whole vs term. Now it’s Term vs Universal, depending on the clients’ needs.

Primerica doesn’t offer Return of Premium either. They say it’s just a gimmick. My RVP told me it’s far more expensive. When I shopped for it though, not true. I’m paying the same for a return of premium with the same coverage.

Primerica doesn’t offer any investments besides mutual funds and the prime elite annuity from MetLife.

CD’s and bonds are better than bond mutual funds. That’s why I sold my crappy corporate bond funds and put the money in an IRA CD at my credit union.

Exchange trade funds and index funds are just as good or better than many mutuals, but Primerica is so backward stuck in mutual-fund only mindset.

How can Oppenheimer Capital Income or Van Kampen Equity and Income which both have life averages of about 10% compete with CitiGroup Preferred stock paying 12%??

Primerica is a good place to start if you want to work in finance, but don’t stay there past getting your securities license. Get your life and securities and then get the hell outta there. And don’t let some cult-leader RVP scare you into staying.

Leave a resignation letter in the office late at night and then change your number if you have to.


You speak badly of Primerica but miss a few points yourself.

Although Primerica is not the only company without a War clause, by my research, Primerica was the only one that paid ALL legitimate death claims first 2 weeks after 9/11. Many people had to wait up to 5 years and a federal class action lawsuit before they got their money.

It’s now Whole vs Term, it’s Cash Value vs Term. People still have Whole life and all the other variants out there, and are still sold it today. Just because you haven’t come across it, doesn’t mean it does not exist or happen.

RoP is a Cash Value product. It is a gimmick. Run the numbers and the client has lost money. It is more expensive than straight term. Depending on the amount of coverage, it could be a couple bucks or hundreds. It may be cheaper than a Primerica policy, but compare it to another policy’s from the same company and it will be more expensive.

The only investment Primerica offiers is mutual funds. The VA is a vehicle like the IRA’s, SEPs, 401k’s, etc. You say CD’s and Bonds are better than a bond mutual fund? Well, are you aware that if you need the money from a CD or Bond you may face an early withdrawal penalty? One that you will typically not find in the said MF? Are you also aware that long term you will probably get a higher average return on the MF than on the individual bonds and CDs? Are you also aware that the IRA CD you have will earn LESS than putting it into appropriate mutual funds?

What was the purpose of the Corporate Bond fund anyways? Emergency money or sake of it or retirement?

ETF’s are essentially a close ended mutual fund, with the notable exception that they can be traded throughout the day. And until recently, only tracked index’s. One investment is not better than another. It is all dependent on the situation for the client. The problem with index type funds is they match and operate like an index. Unless a stock gets delisted they don’t take it out. And actively managed fund will sell that company while the stock is still worth selling and buy another company.

Would you rather have 10% earnings from 100’s of company’s or 12% from a company that is in dire straights and will probably be broken up (making your 12% turn into 0)? The point of those funds is to provide some protection from such fluctuations. If you invest solely into one stock, you take the risk that the company will remain profitable and stay open. You invest in a fund, you will pay more for it, but don’t have as much risk. In a fund, ALL the companies would have to go bankrupt on the same day, at the same time.

Just because you had a bad experience, does not a bad company make. I have been told many a times by agents from other companies that I am too smart for Primerica. I probably am, but of all the other companies I have looked at, HBW, Edward Jones, New York Life to name a few, Primerica is the only one that lets me work without a quota, allows me to be more than just a sales man, and has the people that have the same views on helping people. And by last quarter filings, was also the ONLY insurance company making a profit.

If Primerica is as bad as you say it is, why is it doing better than the rest (per public documents)?

Your posts are full of personal biases and opinions which are not backed up by facts but by more biases and opinions.

You have openly admitted that:

“However, I have to admit that I never took the time to look at all their products”

I think you should write down a list of questions about the company and the products and sit down with an RVP in your area and have a serious discussion before you can go and give other people advice.

Primerica is a transparent company that is honest and open about all of its products and services. If that’s the case then how can it be hiding something?

If Primerica is a “pyramid” (which are illegal) why would they be owned by such a monstrous company such as Citi?

I have yet to see any “facts” that show that Primerica doesn’t do what is right for the consumer 100% of the time. Yes, not every person in the company is perfect, and not every office is always run to the same standards; but the business as well as the business system is build in such a way that it is a WIN WIN WIN for the company, client, as well as the agents. So how can anyone lose?


There is not a single company around that is NOT a pyramid. Just look at the structure of the companies and you will see.

And people can lose in Primerica the same way they can lose anywhere else, quit.

by: The Financial Blogger | December 19th, 2008 (4:25 pm)

Did I ever say that Primerica was evil and not trying to help people out? I’m just saying that the commission structure is made to encourage recruiting and not selling. However, at one point, someone will have to sell if they want to make money. And when you sell, you earn less commission than with any other structure.

I don’t care if Primerica is selling good or bad products, I’m questioning their business model, not their product. Humans are humans, there a really good rep at Primerica helping people and there are crooks like in any other business. Primerica is not different from any of them.

by: Eric Jensen | December 21st, 2008 (11:09 am)

Financial Blogger, FYI, PFS does not have the lowest comp level out there. I have talked with my Farmers agent. (yes, I have my home owners and auto insurance through farmers) He has been a Farmers agent for almost 40 years so he is on an old contract which means he does not have to sell any life insurance at all if he doesn’t want to. The reason he doesn’t want to sell life insurance? Because at Farmers you make next to nothing for selling it. A PFS District Leader makes far more at 50% than a 40 year Farmers veteran makes selling exactly the same thing. If Farmers would make him sign a new contract, he would just retire and hang it up. Why? Because he would then be subjected to life insurance quotas each month. Quotas that he would make no money on. Hey, let’s all go work for Farmers! NOT.

[…] Here are the reasons I was attracted to Primerica: […]

What is better apples or oranges? It depens on your taste buds. There are plusses and minuses depening on the person. Based on my research term and invest the difference is the way to go. As far as recruiting, know the difference between a business owner and a self employed person…. Robery Kyosaki (read). Can you make more commissions at other companies? of course Can you make less commissions at other companies? of course. There should be a mix of making money and enjoying what you do which is largely based on the culture of the company. I worked for insurance companies, brokerage firms and Primerica. The culture at Primerica was to help people and the money will take care of itself. If you are a business owner recruiting is essential to success, but recruiting isn’t exclusive of producing as some would have you beleive. There can be a balance. There are good people in all of the mentioned organization and bad people as well. It deoesn’t mean the organization as a whole is bad. If a company is not your cup of tea don’t work there but name calling and bashing is unnecessary and mean. You can say you aren’t trying to bash and then bash, This says a lot about your character. Some say they are just being informative to help warn people but to really inform people about an organization you should be well informed about the company and not repeat jargon you acquired from someone else. If someone makes a statement to you is it fact or their opinion. Please be self informed and don’t make it personal.

It is hard for agents from a captive company without prior financial services experience and being conditioned in-house every week to have an objective or well informed opinion. Not their fault but never the less they think they know until the truth is shared and becomes evident.
That company does underwrite expensive term and they do underwrite permanent plans as well.

All clients must have the legal ability to convert term policies for estate preservation issues or continuation issues. So although they don’t tell their agents, the fact is they do underwrite and issue permanent plans. The agents are not told the company contacts the clients directly for conversions upon clients reaching renewal periods. The letters for continuation options clearly show conversion to permanent being available from the company that says ALL permanent products are bad.

All insurers must have on file a sample policy of all products sold in a given state with their Insurance Dept. You can find it there but most of these guys don’t want to hear truth, they want to think their one company is the best without having any objective information as a reference. They take every bit of real info as negative or bashing if they don’t like it. The truth is they are conditioned to behave that way.

This is not about apples and oranges. If you sell an overpriced 30 year term with non-guaranteed premiums over 20 years no amount of orange juice can rationalize why that would be better than a lower cost policy from another comparable carrier that is fully guaranteed level for 30 to 35 years and has better features.
I say 35 for two reasons:1- they are not the only ones with 35 year term and 2- when you have expensive premiums other carriers can give better benefits for the same premium

Any person who claims to know anything about insurance yet operates with already dictated terms is not objective. For instance let’s say that a certain company thinks that buy term and invest the difference is the way to go.
You must realize that a client will never get customized solutions there because the idea that a 30 year old should have the same program as a 68 year old is wrong.
They don’t understand that there are things that may affect some clients like estate taxes in which life insurance is very important and term may not be the best tool then.

The compensation in that certain captive company is very low. Only their agents think it is ok. One is up there comparing it to another company from last century.
Well here is the problem. He may have a 50% now (relatively low contract) but he started at 25% which is abusively low. In order to go to 50% he had to give up some ‘training sales’ to someone and recruit a certain amount of individuals within 30 day cycles. Nice deal???
Ok then to add insult to injury life commissions are capped at $1500 no matter the size of a policy (I am not talking about an advance cap either). I am saying if you sell a 7 million face value term policy the comp is no higher than $1500.
Then at some point you have to give up a leg to get their VP contract and that is another loss of income that cannot be justified in my opinion. Even if you have 20 legs… 21 is always better.
No, I don’t work with quotas either so enough of that angle. Another way that your compensation is hurt is the contractual fact that if some company does not allow you to sell products you are licensed to sell, then you are in fact taking a pay cut.
If you don’t understand what I mean then ask anyone from such companies to sell you Disability, Impaired Risk guaranteed issue life, health insurance or Fixed Annuities among many other things they are not allowed to sell…
They cannot and as such cannot get paid even if properly licensed. Why? because a certain contract they signed says so… If you call that a good compensation plan then I would love to sell you a certain bridge nearby.
That does not include the fact that in most cases they have a distance limitation on recruits which if you go beyond it forces the recruiter to ‘network’ the recruit losing all overwrites in products other than life insurance. Then the life commissions would also be ‘networked’ or split in favor of the other office. For example: 75/25 (25% going to the original recruiter). Hmmm not so great in my opinion…

Financial products are not inherently good or bad, they are tools and they must be used properly for a given situation. If any company tells you that one way is the way to go then there is no objectivity there.
I question WL only agents just as much as TERM only agents because neither of them are right.

I know many of you guys in those “one size fits all” systems are not going to get it but we can talk about it here.

I have been around and I don’t mind a good debate. I am not a WL agent and I am not here to bash anyone. Just speaking verifiable truth which any of you can look up independently.
I think in many cases BTID is a good strategy but if we are here to do the right thing and place our clients in a better position… Shouldn’t the term policy we use to replace the improper WL case be a good term policy too?

There is such a thing as a poor term policy. How do you know your term is good or not so good if you have never worked with another one?
Do you believe only what your VP tells you? Doesn’t that person have an interest on you selling for them?
Also, if this person is contractually limited to one product… How can this person be objective about their insurance product?
I mean… They either like it and sell it or they die of hunger right?

So I think the crusade should include making sure the term policy used, when and if needed… Should be the best term WE can find and not a term policy I have to sell because I am not allowed to sell any other.

If what I say is true then you will either learn something valuable and make a change in your practice or you learn what you have to deal with out there.


1) Conversion to Permanent Plan. – NOT A REQUIREMENT BY LAW. At least not in the US. No mention in the licensing books, no mention on the exam, no mention anywhere except in your head. If I am wrong, please post a link to a credible source and I will publicly apologize.

2) Guarantee – I can take a crap in a box and slap a guarantee on it. It’s still crap. And I will ask this question again, if the company is financially strong with NO history of raising rates beyond scheduled rates, does it matter the length of the guarantee? I use Apple products. They have done over $2k worth of work on my laptop with it being OUT OF WARRANTY. Guarantee’s are only there to make people feel better, if the company is sound, it’s meaningless.

3) BTID for 68 – Off course it wont work. It’s too late in the process. Doesn’t mean there is nothing left to do.

4) Distance Limitation – Non Existent. An agent can CHOOSE to network so they don’t have to travel distances to train or they can pay the extra expenses to work with the agent.

5) $1500 Cap on credit – Made to level the playing field across the board. Some places have historically high life insurance policies while others do not. That cap gives everyone a shot to compete for what ever the company has going on.

6) WL vs Term only agents – It’s all TERM anyways, some are just way overpriced with a poor savings plan attached.

7) “One size fits all companies.” – I’ve yet to meet an agent from one and I’ve talked with folks from New York life, State Farm, Edward Jones, etc. Would you mind introducing one?

8) Know if the policy is good? – Read it. That will tell you what you need to know.

9) Doesn’t your companies have an interest in you selling for them? Are you going to believe what they tell you? There is always someone higher up telling you stuff. It doesn’t matter which company you are in or who you work for.

10) Limited to 1 product? Not objective? – Two sides. A) You can either only be objective of the policies you personally sell. B) You can be objective regardless of number of policies. Either way, the number of companies you represent is irregardless of how objective one can be. If someone doesn’t like the product, they are welcome to leave and go elsewhere. Same if you sell from multiple companies.

All that I have learned today is that you are still the same man that goes around the net finding posts about Primerica and keeps bashing, although politely to an extent, and twisting basic concepts which you don’t get or want others to get.

I was not “raised” in Primerica. I learned 90% of what I know outside of it and researched that last 10% that they said. I have found the RVPs and agents I work around to be 100% correct. They have never lied to me, they have never said anything that was not factually correct. These guys have all come from a varied background and will run circles around you till your head spins off.

For those that are reading this, don’t believe anything you read online. Even take stuff from credible news sources with a grain of salt. Write down questions and go talk with an experienced agent DIRECTLY face to face. If they can’t answer them the way you want, find someone else. Sit through meetings. One wont cut it, sit through several.

Learn how the products work before joining any company. They are not that complex, well, term isn’t. Cash SURRENDER Value policies can get a bit confusing. Make your decisions after doing real due diligence.

Don’t let people like me or RRodriguez or anyone else online persuade you one way or another. Everything you read online is usually posted without fear of reprisal, and usually, a way to get ahold of them legally. Wouldn’t you say whatever you want if you didn’t have to worry about someone coming after you? Regardless of facts?

RRodriguez. Well said. I was dealing with Richard a couple of months ago and he is one of those tunneled visions individuals that defends his practice without opening his mind and invisioning the whole picture. Keep it up RRodriguez.


You might want to get to know me outside of a forum before calling me Tunneled Vision.

I defend my practice because it is the right thing to do. I have opened my mind and continue to learn outside of the office. Everything I read, including from people like you, especially from people like you, is that I made the right decision.

When I have people from New York Life, HBW, CLG, Edward Jones, Ameriprise Financial, WFG, etc BEGGING me to join them, I know I am where I am suppose to be.

Every time I asked a question that is at the heart of what you guys preach, you back away from it. Every time I challenged a core belief, you guys never give a response. Every time I gave an option that was numerically sound and numerically better, you were afraid to admit it. Every time I tore a policy apart to explain how it worked for the public to know, I was accused of attacking whole life when I was merely telling everyone how it worked.

You sir, need to get your head out of your ass and stop thinking you have won or dealing with some “idiot Primerica agent.”

Richard, keep doing what you’re doing. The world needs more people like you. Inside and outside of Prinerica

by: Answer This | February 9th, 2009 (1:09 pm)

In my huimble opinion Richard just believes in Primerica and what they stand for. One day he will see the light. I was worse than him.As for the guarantee period If isn’t an issue, why have one period? I’m sure many RVP’s are honest folks, but it still stands many don’t know what they don’t know.

You PFS people defend Primerica to the end, but it’s not it’s not Primerica as a company that’s at issue It’s the agent contract and the balance between what’s best for the independent contractor and the company. Think about it for a moment. the PFS posters love being paid less than what can be had in the industry.. having restrictions, signing over their business in exchange for discounted licensing fees, etc.. Its deep..Real deep.

Richard the reason people want you on their team is because of the committment you bring. It’s not about knowledge or anything like that. They feel if you can be that committed while inside Primerica you have the potential to be a major player on their team outside of PFS. There is no way to spin it. Side by side for a recruit or for business you can’t compete with an independent. That’s a fact..

As as to how a policy works many of us have a good knowledge in that area, because we have to stay current on different products that come to market. But then there’s also the point that BTID in a perfect world works, but where are all the financially independent people ALW/PFS has produced? How many thousands of people have gone through ALW/PFS? Forget the products. Just consider the agent agreement and consider which way the scale leans the most. as for the guarantee period, ask some of the long term agents if PFS has ever cut agents commissions or rolled agents back? If a company leaves themself an option they do that for a reason. If you can still see the value in a 30 year with 20 years guaranteed compared to a 30 year term with a 30 year guarantee and cost less, you need to put yourself in the consumers shoes. Then you need to consider your E/O, because if they get to the year 21 and there is a rate increase and they find out you knew about 30/30, it could get kind of hairy..Especially if you informed the client that the 30/30 wasn’t an issue..Somebodies got to pay…

I have a question for the PFS people. You speak to your clients about BTIV. Do you talk tot hem about their options at end of tram? Do you ever talk to your clients about the potential of a senior settlement? Do you ever go over the positives of being able to lock in a face amount and premium? Now we are talking about doping what’s right for the cleint, not what;s in the best interest of the company.

by: Answer This | February 9th, 2009 (1:09 pm)

In my huimble opinion Richard just believes in Primerica and what they stand for. One day he will see the light. I was worse than him.As for the guarantee period If isn’t an issue, why have one period? I’m sure many RVP’s are honest folks, but it still stands many don’t know what they don’t know.

You PFS people defend Primerica to the end, but it’s not it’s not Primerica as a company that’s at issue It’s the agent contract and the balance between what’s best for the independent contractor and the company. Think about it for a moment. the PFS posters love being paid less than what can be had in the industry.. having restrictions, signing over their business in exchange for discounted licensing fees, etc.. Its deep..Real deep.

Richard the reason people want you on their team is because of the committment you bring. It’s not about knowledge or anything like that. They feel if you can be that committed while inside Primerica you have the potential to be a major player on their team outside of PFS. There is no way to spin it. Side by side for a recruit or for business you can’t compete with an independent. That’s a fact..

As as to how a policy works many of us have a good knowledge in that area, because we have to stay current on different products that come to market. But then there’s also the point that BTID in a perfect world works, but where are all the financially independent people ALW/PFS has produced? How many thousands of people have gone through ALW/PFS? Forget the products. Just consider the agent agreement and consider which way the scale leans the most. as for the guarantee period, ask some of the long term agents if PFS has ever cut agents commissions or rolled agents back? If a company leaves themself an option they do that for a reason. If you can still see the value in a 30 year with 20 years guaranteed compared to a 30 year term with a 30 year guarantee and cost less, you need to put yourself in the consumers shoes. Then you need to consider your E/O, because if they get to the year 21 and there is a rate increase and they find out you knew about 30/30, it could get kind of hairy..Especially if you informed the client that the 30/30 wasn’t an issue..Somebodies got to pay…

I have a question for the PFS people. You speak to your clients about BTIV. Do you talk tot hem about their options at end of term? Do you ever talk to your clients about the potential of a senior settlement? Do you ever go over the positives of being able to lock in a face amount and premium? Now we are talking about doping what’s right for the cleint, not what;s in the best interest of the company.

No, that’s not why. Richard, you know what I meant. The person behind the words, not the words themselves.


I hate to disappoint you, but they don’t want me for my commitment. They want me for my passion. My family has been screwed over countless times. Some times due to agents like yourself. Other times because no one came to them to help.

I am in Primerica to prevent what has happened to my family from happening to others. I have looked at other companies and evaluated them. Primerica is the ONLY one that will take someone with no money to invest, barely living paycheck to paycheck, and give them the chance to actually have a life.

You can say all you want about how bad it is to be a Primerica agent, but when you find someone like me, you will loose. I don’t care what the contract says, yes I read it. I’m not going anywhere.

I have seen family who were told they needed a cash value policy to ensure they had coverage, only for them to find out later they could have had 5 times the coverage for half the price and STILL have the comfort of knowing they would be taken care of.

Agents like yourself sold a woman a $25k whole life policy. She wanted something to ensure her kids would go to college. After 15 years, she would have paid $75k for it and only have $2k in cash to use. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

The industry average face amount is around $150 – $200k. Primerica’s is over $300k. Primerica paid out over $600m in death claims in 07 (still waiting on 08’s numbers). $400m MORE than they would have had. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

There are 10’s of thousands of people each month that receive an extra $1k – $2k/mo Part Time because of Primerica, and that is all they want. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

As for End Of Term, I do explain it. Other policies you have the option of re-qualifying medically to receive the same policy you have been paying on or convert to a cash value policy and either pay more per month or reduce your coverage. With Primerica, it AUTOMATICALLY exchanges for another 5 Year LEVEL term till age 70. At that point they can decide to use ART or DT. NO NEED TO PROOF INSURABILITY.

I also explain how they can get the same effect of a locked in premium and face amount and still give a LARGER death benefit to their heirs.


I do know what you mean. Thank you.

Answer this,

You won’t win with Richard, Priamerica implanted a chip in his brain and it can’t be removed, youre wasting your time, he is programmed to bash everyone else and praise his 1 direction idea fto the whole world.

by: The Financial Blogger | February 9th, 2009 (4:22 pm)

Guys, we all have right to our opinion.

Give peace a chance 😉

And that was mine.

by: Answer This | February 9th, 2009 (4:46 pm)

Richard why get personal? You say agents like myself, where did that come from? I sell term, but I have access to many different companies. When in doubt revert to the cash value argument. I don’t think Primerica is the bad guy, I just think their contract is weighted toward the company and their products are served up with sweet and iced cold kool-aid. It’s business. It’s sales..

We can go back and forth all day about who would win in a confrontation, but I will have quite a bit more companies to choose from and you have one. As for recruits, I have no noncompete, don’t have to give up legs, ownership from day one and i can offer different commission schedules per experience.. No requirement to write all/any of my business with the marketing organization. If one IMO markets to seniors, I can sign with them and market their products. If I want to market heath products, I can go with an IMO or direct with a carrier if I so choose and still if I want, I can bring on other agents. You know you can’t compete with that…

Get this, I don’t have to get RVP approval..You see outside PFS an agent can design their business to be what they want. yes I know PFS has the system already, but consider the true cost. it’s not bashing, it’s information.

As for the death claims, how much more would have been paid out to the families if they had shopped different carriers? Could it be that some of those families may have been able to have more coverage for their premium dollar? You see you keep defending the company. My concern is with the client. Try not to take all this so personal, these companies will be here probably long after we are both gone.

If your contract sucks and your happy, be happy with a sucky contract. (Just said that to prime you up a bit) LOL..Really on the issue of end of term I was commenting on the ability to sell the contract on the open market and the different offers a person may get between PFS conversion options and a term that converts to a perm. product where they can lock in a face amount and premium for life,,

When speaking to a PFS agent, committment, passion, kool-aid…It’s all the same. You say your in Primeica to help those to not go through what your family went through. You imply an agent goes to people and sells them a policy that cost more with less face amount..Ahem,,Ahem,,Do you do a Term comparison for your clients? Do you suggest one company proposal? Ahem,,Ahem,,The premium values just might be different, but arn’t you doing the same thing by only offering PFS products? Ahem,,Ahem..

Forgive them potential client for they know not what they do…I used to be where you guys are..I’ve said the same things..Next time your at a function or a convention. (Opps, that was canceled) Just look around at the people and see the look in their eyes and wanting to get autographs..Then say Hey Kool-Aid..

LOL,,When I remember those days..Get the mind and the body will follow.

by: Answer This | February 9th, 2009 (5:44 pm)

I hope no one is taking all this too personal..We do have to remember to separate the individual from from the business…


The chip wasn’t implanted by Primerica, it was implanted for a test program to see if we could harness the unused portions of the brain for various projects. It’s alright until I get some radio interference, then I can’t get songs out of my head.


I tried. They wouldn’t let it sit. But I am sure you already know that if you put a bunch of Insurance agents in a room together, things will run smoothly. Throw a Primerica agent in there just as experienced as them, it’s war.

Answer This,

Ownership is really a sad thing to compete on. In reality, the companies just pay us to maintain the clients. If you were to die tomorrow, and you don’t will your business to someone in your family that is licensed, the company takes it away and gives the clients to someone else WITHOUT paying your family. That is not ownership.

The same thing applies to Primerica businesses. If things are not setup correctly, the company redistributes it up.

If you have ever been in management, you’ll understand that giving up a leg is SOP. In retail, a new store manager gives up the people they helped train for “greenies.” At Primerica you give up 1 leg of 6. You still have 5 strong ones you helped build. After that, you RECEIVE them. It’s a cost of doing business. Salesmen hate to loose things because it would cut their pay. This is one of those Salesmen vs Businessmen things I mentioned before.

Commitment, compassion, and kool-aid are not all the same. Commitment is sticking to something with the emotion that started it has long since disappeared. Compassion is caring. Kool-aid is a kids drink. My daughter loves it.

Yes the convention was canceled, as well as 2 trips. Citi put some pressure and did not want the bad publicity. It didn’t matter that it just put a $55 MILLION dollar hole in Atlanta, GA’s budget. Or that the money spent on those trips would have HELPED the economy. Or that we took no part in the mess we are all in, except doing our part to protect people from it. Or that we actually had the cash to burn and WANTED to spend it. It was simply that AIG got bashed for spending $400k on a retreat and Primerica was going to spend multiples of millions on 2 trips and a convention.

Primerica policies don’t convert. They exchange. As for selling it, well, it never really does anybody any good. The only people that do benefit are the companies that buy them and the people that immediately get the money (through poor planning I might add). The beneficiaries usually get screwed.

For those death claims, I would have to say instead of the original $200 million, it probably would have been the same. Agents such as your self have had the opportunity to do what is right for over 100 years. Heck, wasn’t it 60 years ago all you had was term? You know this, when AL Williams came around, those companies you like so much could have wiped us off the face of the mat had THEY TAKEN CARE OF THE CLIENT to begin with. Instead, they do like today and keep trying to make it illegal or difficult for us to do business instead of competing. And if those companies products were/are so much better, why in the last 30 years have they gone from over 2000 companies to less than 70 and STILL shrinking?

by: Answer This | February 10th, 2009 (12:22 pm)

As for ownership outside of PFS, My Legal plan side has no licensing requirements in most states and that is directly willable. My mortgage side currently has no licensing requirements and that is directly willable. My clients for my financial side are taken care of due to a family member having the required license(s) and there is a request to sell my block of business if that is the best case decision. Then of course there’s my personal financial assets. The point is from day one I can design my entrance and exit strategy.
It’s just a case of having a plan in place.

PFS has the PLPP, what happens to the clients and business if a PFS agents passes away? That’s not a licensed business, or what about your mortgage side? Now there you go again saying agents like myself. Do you forget I got my start at PFS? I still do BTID, but just with other companies. I’ve been to conventions. I’ve sat through the Monday morning meetings. I’ve seen a RVP get promoted when they didn’t reach the guidelines, but he and the office RVP were close. I’ve seen the impact of having a leg taken and seen the agents. business take a nose dive. Just becuase something is SOP in other businesses doesn’t make it right or advantageous for another business. As i said before if given the choice, i would rather keep the producers I hire and train.

You also say the companies I like so much. I’m not beholden to any one company. At one time Art Williams said the industry couldn’t market term on a large basis. Well that wasn’t true. As for how many companies are left, that’s not an issue because i have access to most of them if I need them. Not to mention it probably won’t happen, but PFS is on the ropes with a possibility of being shut down.

I fail to see what are the advantages for the individual business person to lay their hat with Primerica. An person can still be in the indistry and still sell term and a side account if they so choose. We all know not every PFS agent is securities licensed. A person can sell the same products with better compensation. (Everyone should do their own research) Not to mention have total freedom to expand or contract with whatever businesses they so choose. The way it sounds is the main factor is the Primeica Life policy. You pro PFS agents are willing to give up other opportunities due to a company that doesn’t even consider you as employees and slams down restrictions on you with products others can market on the outside. Just for a moment consider this. In 5 minutes PFS announces they will cease to do business. (This is just for thought) What are your options? Now think of this as a business situation… Remember WLG has recently change directions..I think they are called whoose or something like that.

If PFS did shut down who owns the business and the team you built or are building? At some point all the rah, rah, has to take a back seat to the business side. If the marketing organization shut down right now I would still have my clients and team. I could bring my team over to PFS and request a RVP position. I do know at one time RVP’s had that option..Richard no matter how you think about it the other companies only want you for production purposes. They know once you see the real industry and what other options you would have access to as an independent , you might take off and run..One day something will happen at PFS and you will see the light. How much information is getting to the field about the goings on behind the scenes? what happens with the company will have a material effect on the business of the agents. Yet i’m sure all you hear is don’t worry about it, times change so just build it anyway and don’t worry..Yea don’t worry when it effects your family.

It’s kind of ironic. A.L Williams tried to knock out Prudential and Met Life and the rest and look at the situation now. Art should have never sold the business..Well that’s if he had a choice..

The legal business and the mortgage (using your examples) themselves can not be willed. The CODE NUMBER that they pay can be. Same rules apply both in and outside of Primerica. Must be licensed to receive. Can also be directed to be sold. If no such things are in place, it is taken away.

If PFS closes down, I have other options and will move my team with me. I’ll update my clients only if there situation requires a change.

Little information is getting to the field, however, that does not mean I haven’t been hearing what has been going on. Primerica will either be sold or spun off. The interesting thing about the original agreement between Primerica and Consumer Credit was that Primerica has to agree to all changes that affect it for them to take affect.

In other words, if Citi wants to close Primerica and Primerica does not agree, Primerica stays open. If Citi wants to sell Primerica and Primerica does not like the terms, no sale.

Or to put it more simply, PRIMERICA IS GOING NO WHERE BUT UP!

Everything is pointing to a new IPO being done. You know what happened last time, it will happen again.

You mean the same Prudential that got hit with a $220 million dollar fine for deceptive and misleading sales practices and the MetLife that came begging to PFS to sell it’s products?

by: Answer This | February 10th, 2009 (2:33 pm)

Bypass the middle man. Hey if Primerica does do an IPO, i’m in. I may not like the contact, but i’m no fool. as we can see many people drink the kool-aid. At one time I even heard Prudential owned A.L Williams stock. Primerica preaches not to bundle, but it’s ok with the products/business under one code number. So as PFS has to agree with everything, they i’m sure have the agents best interest at heart.

Richard we have gone back and forth but I really think your a good guy and also a cowboys fan. So let me just say don’t take anything I may say about PFS to heart against you the person or any agent. My true issue is the contract and new people not knowing anything about the industry and how Primerica in my opinion takes advantage of new people in the industry. As Primerica uses a mostly part-time sales force I do understand how they have to protect their business, but to throw in the idea of doing something noble for the middle class in my opinion is just plain manipulation. It’s all sales…Pure and simple…I don’t know about the Met Life coming and begging, but if PFS stood by their beliefs, they would have sent those cash value guys out the door. So you see at the end of the day it’s business…PFS made a business decison based on what’s in teir best interest which is what i stress to prospective or current agents. take the emotion out and do what’s in the agents best interest. Take it or leave it, the contract is what it is. In my opinion it’s massively weighted towards the company..

by: Jose Soberanes | February 10th, 2009 (2:39 pm)


How many times are you going to use that Prudential deceptive and misleading line? It allways seems like you have the same thing to say, over and over and over again.

And your line “PRIMERICA IS GOING NO WHERE BUT UP”… you forgot “..IN SMOKE.” to the end of it.

Being independent for the last 7 years has been outstanding. “Answer This” shares all the same points as I do, keep it up.

As for the meeting MetLife had, my understanding is they came to offer their products, our people sat them down, showed a video of snoopy being ran over by a panzer, then basically said “If you want to market through us, you must design this product this way.”

I hope I can find that clip, I’d love to see it.

Ok Jose, how about the one about Wealth Financial Group being under investigation for misleading sales practices and predatory lending facing possible multi million, if not billion, dollar fines?

Or AIG loosing over $26 BILLION last quarter? Or the one where we MADE over $150 million in pure profit last quarter?

I didn’t forget to add it. No matter how hard you wish, prey, or believe, Primerica is not going to die.

Last I checked, Primerica is the only company to be 100% debt free, have 8 times the required amounts for reserves, has this years budget already paid, AND STILL HAS CASH IN THE BANK.

by: james zhong | February 12th, 2009 (8:25 pm)

I started out as a Primerica agent and I ended up building very successful practice with another company. In my opinion, Primerica is a “churn and burn” operation where they constantly bring in sales reps that leave after 2 or 3 months. They provide no marketing support and they rely on marketing their products to the new sales reps’ network of friends and family. When the new sales rep runs out of leads, he or she will quit the business and the manager will get all the renewal commissions.

I eventually came to the realization that it was unethical to replace permanent insurance so I only went after people who had a need for term insurance. The problem with that is Primerica term insurance products were so over-priced that it made a lot more sense for the client to go with a cheaper and more reputable carrier like Canada Life.

The only reason why Primerica does what it does is because they sell a low value product with an overwhelmingly favourably claims experience at the highest price possible. “Greed is good” is the best way to describe the values of Primerica.

If you are considering a Primerica policy, by all means go ahead and apply for it. But before you get it issued, apply for insurance from a better carrier and then cancel your Primerica policy when the agent delivers it. That way, Primerica will incur all the underwriting costs. You can still buy term and invest the difference, but you’ll have more to invest.

1- Statutory or not that company does underwrite and issue WL as a directly marketed end of term option so don’t avoid the subject Richard.
2- Richard says guarantees mean nothing. Well clients prefer their contract with a written guarantee that premiums will not increase because they can demand the performance other places do not guarantee. Why not?
3- Too late for your only process but I can help a 68 year old with more options.
4- Recruits further than 50 miles from recruiting office must be networked as per company compliance quidelines.
5- Commission limited to $1500 (advance and all) to be fair to contest rules? Are you insane? So if I write a 7 mil policy I can’t get a max contest credit of $1500 and get my rigthfully earned commission? Also who keeps the rest as a fairness fee?
6- All policies are not the same.
7- One size fits all are companies that cannot offer diversified insurance strategies and must box the client into the insurance product or concept they are limited to issue. One size fits all means you cannot go outside your captive domain!
8- You missed 8
9- I represent my clients. I am not captive to any company and I would not work with any company that limits my ability to objectively shop the market for a good match with clients. I am what you may know as an independent no-fee adviser. Even in your company issued pre-licensing books you may find the concept of being a fiduciary. That we have an ethical obligation to procure the best products for our clients. The problem with you is that your agency probably does not let you compare, procure or issue non-company affiliated/approved carriers. I can study any policy or product and make the decision to present it to my client, no matter what non-captive company issues it. Then, if my client approves I can immediately appoint and issue with said carrier. Didn’t you know your license is meant for that?
10- You either represent a company or you represent your client. If you represent a company you are a sales rep for that company and as such you have no real freedom to really do the right thing from my perspective. You cannot shop the market objectively.

The problem is that you cannot see what you don’t want to see. If your company allowed you to sell more than one life product you would quickly determine which one has the better features for a client and issue it. The problem is you cannot do that there and you must justify your condition as a tolerable one. From my perspective you could never compete with someone as flexible as me and that is the difference. I have studied many products well and if they had any merit I would be the first to recommend them. For instance I thought that refi program was ok for some long term home owners but now that is not around well… Tough deal there. Thanks to my contract I am not affected by shutdowns see.

All I have learned is that you have a misplaced illogical emotional attachment to an opportunity that limits your practice in relation to others. That you perceive truth as some kind of attack which is not even personal because you don’t want to feel outdated and that your knowledge of financial services seems very limited.


You had a bad experience. That is no reason to recommend people basically defraud a company. I never encourage anyone I know to go through what you are saying just to have the company spend money needlessly. THAT is unethical.


1. At one point Primerica did have a WL option. MANY years ago. Now, they don’t. It is all level term, ART, or DT. At least in the US. I can’t speak for Canada, but would imagine it is the same.

2. I didn’t say it meant nothing, just that it makes you sound like a car salesman (my apologize to the decent car salesmen). If the product is crap, no amount of guarantees will matter.

3. I can still help people up to age 70 for insurance. Every situation is different.

4. If that really is a requirement, why do people in my office have recruits over 200 miles away without a networking agreement? And home office approved it?

5. $1500 is the limit for contests, not commissions. Full commissions are still issued. And yes, that is meant to keep it fair. In NY, the average policy per person is what, $1.5? $2 million? Average policy in TX being about $300k? Someone in Texas would have to work about 6 times harder to get the same credit. The purpose of the contests is to allow for fair competition. Putting a cap on credit allows that.

6. I never said the policies were the same. The underling insurance it self is all Term though. I’m sure you know that and you educate all your clients to that effect right?

7. Primerica has never claimed to be a one size fits all company and never will be. I’m still waiting for you to introduce me to one. Can you even do that? I’ve still yet to find one. Being a captive agency does not automatically make a one size fits all company.

8. Seeing if you were paying attention.

9. I have always represented my clients from Day one. I do compare policies, I still haven’t found one I like better than what Primerica offers. I’m not saying that as an agent, but as a person.

10. Perspective is a funny thing. You change it, and you see things differently. Nothing is inherently good or bad, just different. Ones perspective says I can’t be competitive, the other says I can. In the end, it is up to the client to decide what they want.

So long as it is logical trust, I never see it as an attack. With you, your reputation precedes you, so I take it with a grain of salt since you are an agent from another company. As such, neither of our comments here should actually be taken into full consideration when someone is looking around since we are both bias towards our on organizations. Our comments should be used to create questions so the individual can better understand them.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 13th, 2009 (1:34 pm)


Haven’t you noticed that the majority of Priamerica agents that leave had a bad experience. I wonder why that is?


It’s simple. I myself even left once related to a bad experience. It was the manager I had. I came back because I believed in the concepts and the products. After a 4 yr leave, I still did not find a better company or product. The management I have now is considerably better than before.

As other agents have said, at least the ones that took the time to actually talk with me in person, I’m too smart for Primerica. I probably understand the products better than 3/4 of my office. And most of it I learned else where.

by: Answer This | February 13th, 2009 (4:22 pm)

Richard granted you do know more about the products than most PFS reps, but at some point it has to come down to the basics. If you had a mortgage would you rather go for a 30 year fixed rate or a rate that is fixed for 20 years and no guarantee of the rate for the remaining 10 years? If you paid money for a bicycle would you rather own the bicycle at day one or have ownership if you ride a certain amount per year? If you were opening a restaurant would you rather be able to offer your customers one item or have a full menu?

Your Primerica to the core. The thing is many agents are loyal to the company (Not the products or their clients) and they are independent contractors. As being independent contractors how loyal is the company to the agents? Many PFS agents have no clue of the opportunities they are missing out on. As an independent business person it’s great to be able to make a educated decision if adding a product line is within your business best interest, but to be restricted per company contract as a part-time independent contractor just doesn’t make sense..

Well Pierre, would you rather have a guarantee from a failing company or a company that is financially sound? Guarantee’s are only as good as the company backing it. Granted there are some protections in place in the insurance industry, but still, even those can fail if enough companies fail.

As for restriction, well, it’s all a matter of perspective. Agents such as your self perceive it to be bad since you can pick and choose what you offer and to whom. Being contracted to those contracts with the possibility each year of loosing them if the company does not agree with how much of their products you sell. It does happen. If they don’t like how much of which product they want you to sell, regardless of if they actually tell you, they will cut you off at your renewal.

I look at it as a way to focus on what the majority of people need. I work them out of the need for insurance and into a comfortable retirement. It is kind of funny that Primerica is the only insurance company I know of that is actually anti-insurance.

Then again, all insurance is a scam. it’s the only product people willingly pay for with the hopes of never using it. How backwards is that.

by: james zhong | February 14th, 2009 (2:25 am)

Well Richard, you obviously have never had any experience with estate planning. A joint-last-to-die 20 pay whole life policy is something that is meant to be paid out. It is not a replacement strategy as it is a wealth transfer strategy. You can’t use term in the same way. If you self insure dollar for dollar, you are losing 100 cent dollars.

The only reason why Primerica advocates buy term and invest the difference is because they have nothing better to sell.

Well James, you have obviously never met me so how can you state I have never had estate planning if you have never actually met me in person or asked me any questions related to it?

I could do that…. or….. Buy a term policy for that amount wishing to transfer and put the difference (there will be for a 20-pay) into a VA that offers 5% or market performance, which ever is greater (whole life policies traditionally earn 1 – 3% over the life of the policy), does NOT REQUIRE annuitization (VERY few annuities in general do this) and can grow to much greater than that whole life policy ever could dream of becoming.

Would you rather pass on a limited amount, or one that could continue to grow and be passed to generations?

Primerica advocates don’t do BTID because it’s the only thing we can do, we do it because it is still what is RIGHT for low to middle income families. It has been right for over 50 years. If you don’t believe me, ask Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman. Oh wait, you probably don’t care what respected 3rd party people think because they don’t agree with the way you work. Or is it because they speak out against the products you recommend?


They have a WL option right now. My client has a letter from them aksing her to select the option by May 3rd of this year. You could have found this out yourself but I see you are not even trying. You could have called your own company and verified this but you didn’t.

When it comes to Term crap could be defined as: Having a unisex policy with poor conversion features limited to a straight WL, having high premiums due to simplified underwriting at table 1-2 assumptions, having a 40% advance with 6 month death certification as a terminal illness benefit. No written premium guarantees beyond 20 years and no DI or ROP available riders.
You are implying other products are crap when clearly you don’t know that there are far better term policies out there than the one you think is good just becaue it is the only you have.
Richard have you lost your ability to reason?
You are trying to justify that which is not justifiable and I am no car salesman stop the personal attacks. I am a professional at what I do.
If you want to learn something then slow down and listen without prejudice. Prove to yourself and everyone that what you say is true and don’t call people who may know a hell of a lot more than you derogatory names or metaphors.
The information here could change your life, yet you resist it just because someone filled your head with company propaganda.
Do you really think that Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey are the end all and be all of finance? Have they taught you how to preserve a client’s wealth? If so explain why the theory of decreasing responsibility works or doesn’t work.
Of course you actually think that theory works because you don’t know much about certain events that occur in the later years as well.
Maybe Orman’s business now is to sell products to gullible people without a real deep knowledge of financial planning.
Richard… What else do you have if not BTID? How do you help a client maintain their quality of life whether they live or die? A real question there…
I mean if you tell them to save money for retirement. How do you help them protect it against the government plan?
Why is it that you guys only throw outrageous statements up in the air but never talk substance? I never hear anything other than:
1- We are the best
2- Everyone else is wrong
3- All other agents are crooks
4- Our products are the best and the list goes on…

Could that be simply indoctrination at it’s best?
For instance. Why is it that you perceive me and others like me as negative?
Why am I the enemy? What if I am right and you have been lied to for years?
I like BTID just not with a relatively poor term policy and limited to mostly variable non-guaranteed investments.
Look your compensation is very low in relation to the industry and contest should have nothing to do with your compensation being limited. Let me give you a true and better explanation for the advance limit but know that it is my understanding that your company will limit the total commission to $1500 and that is bad with or without contests.
Now a company limits the advances because they are a liability to them if the agent leaves with charge backs but an agent should be paid 100% of his compensation beyond the advance in the form of as-earns. That has nothing to do with trips and I hope you see I gave you a better explanation than that which clearly someone told you. Besides, trips can be cancelled right?
How can you still be waiting to see a one size fits all?
What other life insurance strategies do you have or know there?
You only have ONE life product and that ONE must FIT ALL your transactions or there is no transaction or useful strategy for you or your client.
Being captive automatically restricts your objectivity because EVEN if you know of a better product outside your company approved list you cannot recommend it (selling away clause) or sell it (captive clause). So much for doing the right thing… The right thing for who? Must be for the company because there are better products outside and don’t tell me that you really think that no other carriers could have come up with a better term policy.
How can you say that you have compared policies and claim that you have not found one better? Everyone reading this knows that it is way too easy. Just go to any quoting site and read the features as well. Every company I can use is better in my opinion and the only way you could not have seen that is because you didn’t really look. If you doubt it then contact people like me so we can put that mistaken belief to rest forever.
Perspective… Well here is mine. My reputation is that of speaking the truth and I am open to be recruited if you truly have a better opportunity. If someone does not want you to talk to me it would be because they have an interest on you remaining in the dark.
A client decides based on information and I don’t think there is a client stupid enough to pay more money for a term policy that neither guarantees premium (if is sooo good), cost more than others with the same or better ratings and the policy does not allow you to use it for advanced financial planning strategies.
My perspective is that of really doing the best for my clients, my team and my family. That if Art Williams himself was here today he would want to do the best for all people. That some company lost its way and did not evolve to become what it could have.

In fact back to quality one would expect to pay more IF the policy has value. I am asking you. If they never said they are the cheapest… What makes it so good that you must pay so much?

My reputation Richard is that I will prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that both you and your clients HAVE A CHOICE someone does not want you to know of. That there is superior training out there as well and that I always made my client #1 rather than any company.
They want you to think I am the devil and that I steal ice cream from babies.
The truth is that I went further and deeper than you. The truth is I wanted to be wrong but clearly that did not happen but it was good and you have that chance now. The truth is I wanted to prove to the world what we did was good and to my surprise I was the one who learned and became better for it.

I should have clarified a bit. The older policies that were issued did have a WL conversion, and as such we honor it. To my knowledge, all policies since 90 have been exchangeable to level term.

No, I didn’t have to call home office for that that either, I already knew it and thought I explained it enough for an experienced agent to understand.

That is your definition of a crappy term policy, not mine nor my clients.

All the policies I have seen thus far have been far worse than what I put in place. Some have been crap even with your standards.

Quality of Life preservation can be achieved with LTC policies. Many know Genworth is the best out their for it and offers the most flexibility. Lucky for me I use them. Get it young while still cheap and no major medical problems.

I only perceive you as negative since you come across as negative. By all accounts, TFB is an “enemy agent,” but has earned my respect through conversations outside of a comments section.

I have had confrontations with agents at HBW. Depending on who you talk to, a better company. First agent was an ass to the core, the second earned my respect by keeping the conversation civil. Neither that agent or TFB ever flat came out and said the products are crap and can do better elsewhere.

And you misread something else. Production credit is capped, not commissions. Commissions get paid with a 75% up front, last bit as earned. Done as a protection to the agent incase of charge backs.

The one life product I offer can be customized to fit MANY situations, not all. I never said it is for all and neither did the company. So where are you getting the information that it must fit all situations?

I didn’t call you a car salesmen, I said you sounded like one. People perceive the word “guarantee” with the stigma of a “car salesmen.” And again I ask, if the company is financially sound and has never raised during the standard term regardless of ability, does it matter?

In the last 2 years, they have probably come up with a good comparison to ours. Probably an answer to a few of the additions we added. Most notably, the 35 year term. From what I have found, we were the first to offer it. AIG was the second.

Well, you may get your wish. Last I checked, Art’s coming back. Hmm, wonder what will happen then?

First, the price difference is not as much as you make it out to be. Most comparisons I have seen are usually within $5 to $10 of each other. I expect prices to be cheaper now that it has been almost 2 years since this policy has been out. I’m actually expecting a rate drop in the next 6 months. As for what makes it better, me. Im not their to sell anyone a policy. Im there to get them out of debt and make sure they hit the marks they want to hit. I give my clients the service they deserve.

I know I have a choice. I chose Primerica. Nothing else looked better after running all the numbers.

I don’t think you are the devil, just ill informed on how our current products worked. As for steeling ice cream from babies, well, only you spread that rumor.

by: Answer This | February 14th, 2009 (8:36 pm)

Nothing else looked better. Noncompete. giving up legs. No renewals on LTC..Must become Life licensaed to continue to market nonlicensed products. Just a couple of examples..Yea ok, nothing better.

Noncompete – Doesn’t matter if I’m not going anywhere else.

Giving up legs – And? It’s a price. And again, insurance is the only industry I know of that complains of that. For every other industry I have worked with similar rules, they have to give up much more.

No Renewals – Are you doing this for the money or for the clients?

Must become Life licensed – Again, are you doing this for the money or the clients? If one is truly committed to helping people, one must become licensed. With much of it subsidized, does it matter?

Tomato, Tomato. Potato, Potato. You see it as a salesmen would, I see it as a businessman would.

If your opportunity is so much better, how many of the people you work with make over $100k? $1 million? How many of the people that trained you make over those numbers? Was it mostly personal production or team production?

by: Answer This | February 14th, 2009 (9:58 pm)

If money isn’t an issue donate all of your commissions. Other agents who sell the same products with other organizations are paid renewals. I may post to you. but my post are also for people who may need some information to research. Primerica is not about helping people. they are about sales of certain products to a defined market.

There is a business side and a mission side. Primerica is about sales. I have you ever been trained on closing? What about getting referrals? As for the licensing issue, what about the people who don’t wish to get licensed or for those who just can’t pass the exams. Why not give them the option of just offering the PPLP or your mortgage or the Auto/Home referral program (where no licensing is required). They won’t do it, because the life blood is the life business. I won’t go into which opportunity is bettter, because for some people Primerica is where they should be, like yourself, and for others another place is a better place for them. As you know being in the financial industry $100K isn’t much of a bar. A point is a person can have the option of doing it with a team or by personal production. Not everyone is open to recruiting.

I still don’t see how you say i see things as a salesman. Due to Primerica I have come to look at this as a business, they sure do. There’s no way they would sign the contract they offer you.

By being paid renewals though, there is less motivation to go help more families, and yes, generate more sales.

There are agents out there that wish to live solely on renewals so they don’t have to work. For them, that is fine. But what happens when those clients go else where or die? The renewals dry up.

The business side of any and all business is about increasing its presence. You make it sound like it is all the Primerica is about. The mission side is where the businesses distinguish themselves. Primerica is focused on a specific market. That market happens to be about 95% of the population.

Although some agents prefer doing partial solutions, Primerica as a whole does not. The requirements are there to allow people to help more families with a better overall solution than where they were. Offering someone just PLPP, a better mortgage, or a A&H referral will only help the short term. Primerica is about long term. A patch doesn’t do much but hold back a storm.

And A&H does require licensing in some states, such as Texas.

I know $100k isn’t much of a bar, but to many of those reading this, it is something they never had. To them it is plenty of money. To those that know how money works, they know it is mere pennies. That still doesn’t answer the question though.

Just because you have the option, does not mean it is better. A salesmen hates to give up sales to others and does not like to recruit. A business knows it is part of the business and does so.

The reason I keep calling you a salesmen is because you keep giving the impression you would rather burn out doing personal production (it will happen) instead of recruiting a team to do the work for you.


If the newer policies can only be renewed through the guaranteed renewal clause there are two problems I see with that.
One is that the policy then does not have a value beyond the term and is useless for estate planning so the older policies were relatively better. The second is that you probably like to highlight the guaranteed renewal clause without evidence of insurability (guarantees matter there).

Of course it is not your definition of a crappy policy but in my opinion and most other reasonably intelligent people if you can give me better features, better guarantees, same or better rating and lower price then that is better and would be hard to replace right?
Generally any average term policy will do to shut down an improper WL plan but I don’t stop there. I want to make sure that the term I issue is also the best. Quite honestly since 1998 there have been great term policies so there has been plenty of time for any company to build the best. Did they? Did you think the industry was not going to evolve?

Quality of life preservation via a LTC policy? I said weath preservation.

How can a LTC policy preserve income stream should a client be lets say confined to a wheel chair?
How can LTC prevent market losses in their retirement accounts?
Don’t you agree that training is also important?
That if you are going to handle financial products, you should know how they can and should work together?
Don’t you know that those millionaires you look up to all should have an estate preservation plan which includes permanent policies? They would be stupid not to have them yet you think they all practice what they preach to you?

LTC’s function is to handle cost of care but it does not replace income stream or protect the client’s retirement account from taking a nasty fall with the market.

I don’t come across as negative. I told you that I speak the truth, I have to. You see me as negative because I challenge your beliefs.
I tell you again of course it matters to guarantee because despite their allegations of never increasing premiums THEY CAN and THEY DO. That is what I was trying to tell you.

If the performance is so good then why not guarantee it anyway? But aside from that please read the product manual carefully. Specifically issue age/premium calculations.
Well let me tell you why… Because the term 35 is subject to 5 year ART increases depending on the AGE OF ISSUE is it not?
That is why is not guaranteed because unless you are younger it may not remain level.
Try to issue that 35 year product to a 45 year old and see how the premium table shown premium increases in the last 10 years or so. That is why it is not guaranteed.
The other 35 year policy out there does not increase if issued at age 45. A lot cheaper too. You see Richard you believe the propaganda but if you had read that policy you would not have placed forward this silly “guarantees mean nothing” and “take a crap on a box with a sticker” rebuttal. You would have known what to say. So how can I be ill informed when I am giving you answers?
Now are you honorable enough to check what I am saying and tell us your results?

I know what you are saying. Yes all advances are 75% and the 25% as earns. That is standard industry advance but I am asking you.
Lets say an agent got paid $10,000 in commission for a single life case?
A- Are you telling me they advance $7,500 then pay as earns the remaining $2,500?
B- Or is it they advance $1,500 and then pay $8,500 as earns?
C- Or is it just $1,500?

Which one?

Now, I am saying is that no one company can address all the financial needs for your client and as such no company should limit your training, your products or income.
What I am saying is that if given the chance, the freedom to choose why would you sell a product knowing there are better ones you can issue?
What I am saying is that it is not fair for any company to restrict you in both concept and practice.
What do you mean that they have come out with good comparisons. Richard, there is no comparison. Since 2004 nearly all term carriers have been priced much more favorably and that unisex thing is a killer.
Oh yes I read “coach” and he clearly expresses his regret for having sold his INDEPENDENT AGENCY to a corporation. He would not have stood for what goes on today but I doubt he’s in the list to buy that agency now.
You must realize that no one can tell you what to do with your house right? so when a company buys another they may have some plans that you could have never imagined.
I would never buy into an agency without guaranteed ownership. I told people that certain things were going to happen and they did. I don’t get much credit but I can tell you that I have experience in how the industry moves and that usually the staff of an establishment with uncertain future are the last to know what’s really coming.
One guy got real mad at me and he said his company was a core asset when I insisted it was not. Well now we all know he was wrong too. So do worry about non-compete because companies can be sold to places you may not like and shut down forcing you to go despite your wishes. I know ANSWER THIS is coming down hard and maybe that is not the best way but he does have a point there.

Well we are here to get people out of debt and retire financially independent too, not just to sell insurance but I submit to you that if I can save a client more money, that is more money I get to help them compound with the rule of 72.
Trust me it is more than $5 or $10 and I can prove it.

Anyway even if it was $10 I could not go to sleep knowing that I sold someone a policy which prevents them from applying $10 or $30 or even $50 extra a month to their debt elimination or their mutual fund. You see I really have to do the right thing without excuses.
You better than most should know the impact a small amount can have over time in either debt elimination or wealth accumulation. So every dollar counts.

by: Answer This | February 15th, 2009 (1:05 pm)

Richard this isn’t just about me or you. from my perspective it’s about choice and having information to make a choice. I have a team. I have agents in a few states. I know when I was at PFS I had to sign an agreement with another RVP when I recruited in another state. I forgot what they called it but I remember I had to sign it. Then I recruited a relative in another state, guess what I was told when I left PFS..Stay away from my relative from a business perspective. As we both know the growth is in building a team, well that’s where the consideration of the noncompete, giving up legs and ownership come into play. as RR spelled out if PFS is shut down or sold or whatever that’s a material business consideration.

Just so you know Primerica is not focused on 95% of the population. What about Impaired risk? What about the population who are in or close to the distribution phase of life? RR has already gone over wealth preservation. As for the renewals please refer to the rule of 72. Not to mention the payment of trails. i hope you turn those down also.

When I mentioned the nonlicensed products I was speaking on a person doing the business as a stand alone. Using your logic there should be a 100% requirement that people get 6,63 licensed also. If agents can just refer the securities business to their RVP or recruiter, why shouldn’t people have the choice to just market nonlicensed products? You see Primerica is a business and everything they do is from a business standpoint. .The life blood is from the sale of term…

Your coming closer to the light. I’m sure many other PFS agents are reading some of this stuff and they are or will be asking their RVP questions and reading their contract.

You said it best “Although some agents prefer doing partial solutions, Primerica as a whole does not. The requirements are there to allow people to help more families with a better overall solution than where they were.” You see Primerica knows there’s a good chance no one is going to get to the client after you show up..Now to even solidify the client even more, they offer the opportunity and then have them step up to the table and drink of the kool-aid….If you (PFS Life) decline a potential client, what do they suggest that client do? Remember they target 95% of the market and care about people…You see that’s the difference..You represent the company not the client. As an independent I do what’s in my clients best interest and for myself when looking at it from a business stand point. Just so you know, I feel the same way I do about other companies as I do about PFS. They are all looking out for their best interest and so should I. once I left PFS, never again…It was like getting a divorce and then having a prenup. thrown in my face..

by: Jose Soberanes | February 15th, 2009 (3:29 pm)

I think Richard missed Answer this’s point, completely!!

i have received a call for an interview tomorrow with Primerica
and I did not know much about them so I came here and read a lot of what everyone has had to say.
I was told it is a 30min interview.
I would be a person who would be trained by him and be hiring others.
I would like to know if I should go?
and I am hearing I have to pay them to train me. I dont know if its the same position others are talking about or if I have to pay but I’d like to hear advice from others.
Im not going to pay for a company that should be paying me to work for them.

by: The Financial Blogger | February 16th, 2009 (6:58 am)

I think you should draw a list of questions you have from reading these posts and comments and then, ask them your question during the interview.

I strongly encourage people to make their own opinion by making their own research.

You don’t have much to loose (30 minutes of your time 😉 ). It worth the try!

let us know about your experience!

Good luck.


Yes I have came up with many questions. So i can tell if they are trying to screw me or if this is an actual job like everyone else.

by: Answer This | February 16th, 2009 (11:58 am)

Leeana first off you won’t be working for Primerica. They will offer you the opportunity to build a business inside their business model. Certain products they offer require licensing. It is not a job interview. You won’t have to pay them directly to train you.

Primerica isn’t a scam company. Just understand it’s not a job interview. If you have any questions feel free to come back and post. Some one will give some sort of input, but as TFB says, don’t take anyone’s word for anything. Make a decision which is in your best interest. One more time, it’s not a job interview.

It is an interview. Its not a job offer.

well i just had my interview and it seemed to go well.
going back on wednesday
check it out more.
if I don’t like it after I ask more questions.
than oh well there was other jobs.

I had never heard the “prenup thrown in your face” analogy Answer this… I will not forget that one! :)

Now Richard, I did not originally use the word “crap” until you introduced it into the context of our conversation on post dated: Feb 13th 2009, bullet #2
I used it only after you used it first as reference.

So please don’t make me sound as if I was degrading anyone or anything. In case you have not noticed I have kept my statements clear of naming any company you may or may not be contracted with. I told you I am not here to do anything but share my opinion in this already established thread, without as you call it “bashing”.

About helping until age 70…
Did you know that around ages 68 and up some permanent plans may actually be same price as some expensive term policies?
So what advantages if any would there be to issue a permanent plan over term at those ages assuming that the premium is similar, close or the same?

Just so you know, Metlife VA are available to most S6 licensed agents.
Not only that but there are other VA carriers that can do better than 5% or market best.
If we are to talk about VA then remember that aside from the VA there are also FA and FIA both of those can offer guaranteed rates with certain advantages.
So why talk about one type and from one carrier only?

FIA in particular can also offer min or market best performance but what makes them interesting is that you don’t have to deal with as many fees as some VA.
Some FIA have features that blow away many Variable products and may fit the client’s needs better.

When dealing with VA you always have to consider the double edged sword of fees taken out in one end while the client takes out distributions in the other. That might make an FIA a very strong contender. Please remember I am not advocating one over the other as I could issue many types from many carriers. I advocate the flexibility of choice and your right to have it for yourself or clients.

So considering that you are licensed to sell FA and FIA as well. Which one do you like best for your clients?

Richard… My point and opinion is no one should ever limit you ok.
I never understood why some companies do not allow you to sell things that they do not even issue despite you being able to.

If I open a restaurant and decide to feature Coca-Cola Inc. drinks as my soda carrier that’s cool. I get it and I know I am supposed to sell Coke drink products only but why would Coca-Cola Inc. tell me that I cannot sell apple turnovers or milk shakes or hot dogs?

Thanks to everyone here for a great conversation so far.

by: Answer This | February 17th, 2009 (9:11 am)

RRodriguez here’s my take on why a certain company would limit their agents to thir own products. They do mass hirinf and if they didn’t have in place controls, people would do all kinds of things and they might get caught up in some legal issues..Yea i know it’s kind of weak.

Here is something I found about when I left PFS. PFS has an agreement with Pre-Paid legal to offer a Primerca branded Legal plan. I wanted to continue sellign legal plans along with the new products i had available when going independent. Well I was informed by Pre-Paid legal per agreement with PFS if a PFS agent leaves PFS they can not contract with PPL directly for a period of 6 months. Now it gets better. If I wanted to offer my former clients any PPL products directly I couldn’t. Once I left PFS those clients were the property of PFS per noncompete.

When I ran the numbers, to me it seemed that if a person could make a decent amount of money just offering the legal plans especially if done by group business. That’s when I really understood the concept of bypass the middle man. It’s the same with the LTC. I was told renewals were only paid to RVP’s and above. Now that may have changed, but if it hasn’t i’m sure many agents just don’t know that’s not an industry as a whole practice to bypass the writing agent for renewals.

So beyond all the rah, rah it’s a business. Yes $99.00 may be a low cost license fee, but what else do agents give up in the big picture? Once the contract is signed the two year clock starts. So this information posted is much more than just a “debate”. There’s a business side that can have a material impact on your potential income. Look at what’s going on right now. there is a remote chance PFS could be shut down. As small as it is there is a chance. What are your options. We as independents can just change carriers and move on and have the options of adding new business lines if we so choose.

Many of the post online are about the products and how they compare to others, but people also have to look at what it really means to be in a captive enviroment especially if they are part-time just wishing to make some extra income.

Leena before you sign up take a look at the PFS contract and which products they offer.
then go to a Pre-Paid legal business briefing. Why do I say this, because PFS also offers a legal plan designed for them from PPL. Consider the ability of doing two businesses. if you wish to build a team of agents, consider doing it with the financial side and the legal side separate. two separate businesses, two separate businesses to grow, one license required (PFS) and one in most states no license required (PPL, in many instance licensing if required is just paying a fee. No license required to offer identit theft plan). NOW BEFORE ANYONE STARTS ACCUSING ME OF RECRUITING OR ANYTHING I’M NOT POSTING ANY CONTACT INFORMATION. THIS IS JUST FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES.

At the very least this is some great training for the PFS agents who may run into agnets from other organizations who can do what you can do and more but you can’t do what they can do. Do you remember the “ALL you Can Do , Is All You Can Do, But All You Can Do Is Enough”..(Not all the company allows you to do)….I like Art Williams and I still try to read and listen to his teachings when I run across it, but beyond his speaking abilities what can he bring back. He attacked Pru and Met because of their products, so term against Term what can he say? I would think he would totally redo the company. Bring in more carriers and adjust the commission structure, because it’s just a matter of time before something will have to be done..The rah, rah stuff, just doesn’t work anymore. Don’t blame other agents, blame the internet. People can post and people can research. No matter what anyone says on these boards it’s the agents agreement that speaks the loudest. If we post some wrong information please correct us. Elvis has left the building..

Thank you… Thank you very much…
Hey Answer This.
One of the most regrettable things is that the agents in companies like that don’t really know where they come from or what they really stood for in the past.
That information has been lost and they think that the company they contract with today is the same thing. Not even close…

You mention Art Williams. I like Art, his concept and agency really gave consumers a choice back in a time where there wasn’t any. For that, Arthur Lynch Williams gets all the credit he deserves however he sold his agency and it became something else. Something very different from what it was then.

The A. L. Williams Independent General Agency after overcoming many challenges and attacks eventually became a force to be reckoned with. At that point during the late 70’s a deal was struck to sell the agency to a corporation.
This deal came in with contractual changes that benefited the shareholders of the purchasing company and left the agents in a very weak position as they no longer had any leverage to affect products or carriers in their arsenal.
They could not really add more products independently and they could not switch carriers if needed. In essence they were now very much stuck with a new contract full of captive clauses and non-compete agreements which are not normal in the industry.

An agent has a fiduciary and ethical duty to improve the financial products of his clients. In fact if an agent was to find a better policy and follow proper replacement procedures it is not only ok but expected that said agent should improve the product if suitable. This is not churning and an educated client has no problem accepting such changes. However if they left now they cannot tell their clients about better programs for a certain number of years. So isn’t keeping the client in the dark just as bad as the churning they claim to protect a client from?

You see ALW Agency because of sheer sales power could make demands and changes to products. They could change carriers and they did when they outgrew their first carrier. They ended up with MILICO for a while. Take note that when Art created ALW he actually took with him his best friends from the former company. They are known today as the original 7 but the irony is that God forbid you wanted to leave that company today with any of your agents (which you brought in). You would have their legal dept sending you letters! How ironic that Art started by bringing his team from his former company and that now they cannot do that.

Anyway ALW Agency created the first 20 year term product. I repeat the AL Williams agency, that is not the three letter company which seems to pretend they are one and the same.
When sold, all the agents lost their true ownership and leverage. This greatly benefited the shareholders of the purchasing company because they now dictated a bunch of captive terms and demanded exclusivity (big money).
Imagine a large sales force that has to sell only what you allow them to sell? That is just a huge money maker.

After all… Why not they owned them… Those who understood this quickly voiced their anger and broke away to create WMA.
WMA’s leader did have a unique way of conducting business and this led to them being bounced around with compliance issues. That spin spawned the company that today is called WFG and owned by Aegon group which seems to be cleaning up their act.
So the new agents that come in don’t really know that in the past they stood for leverage, freedom of choice and fair competition. If any of them are really honest they can see the contradictions all around them.

They ask prospects without any knowledge of finance to keep an open mind but yet when someone like us talks to them, they seem to never follow the rules they expect others to follow. That is, to keep an open mind. They seem to have an attachment to the brand that surpasses common sense.
Notice that many times they do not care if there is a better system or cheaper product despite the overwhelming fact that it is better for client, company and agent. This is why some have gone as far as calling this behavior as cult-like. They become dependent on the words of their uplines, believe them without question and have a rather unique rationale when you dig too deep.
This is to the extent that if any of their own peers were to ask too many questions they are quickly discouraged, misinformed and even labeled as “negative”. They may prefer those they call coachable in the sense that you simply are to do what you are told, believe what you are told and just do it in faith not reason.
The fact that some lash out in anger when someone like me voices his point of view totally supports the very point made.

They think people like us are out to put them down when in fact at least I consider myself an educator in the matter and if I see a person who wants more from their opportunity I have no problem helping them. I have always liked helping people, in fact I do what I do because I hold myself and my team to a higher degree of “doing the right thing”. Not just against improper WL cases but also making sure that my clients have the BEST term there is. After all this is for their loved ones and as a family man myself I cannot pledge to a company as much as to those who place their trust in my abilities.
So I hope people like Richard and others finally understand that we are very much alike and that we are not enemies.

Ok folks, we are talking about policies and commissions and which company is better to work, but what this seems to be forgetting what is best for the client? If you are are a financial advisor, wouldn’t you want to do the best job for the client or you are simply not doing your job.

If I was shopping for a policy for me and my family, it makes common sense to purchase from an independent agent. Why would I want to limit my choice to only one company? An independent agent, one who is not beholden to only one carrier. It’s the only way to get an objective opinion and a fair choice. This is America and this is one freedom I love to have. This keeps things in check. If I do not like your company for what ever reason, I have the freedom to spend my money else where. Do you want the choice only between only one manufacturer of automobiles, coffee, computers, or tools? NO, I do not want to open old wounds but here is the difference between captive and non-captive. If the Agent is captive only sells on company’s product then they are a salesman. Because that is all they can sell. If they are non-captive they are advisors because they can truly recommend which plan is better for you verse them only being able to offer you one product. If one company is getting rid or changing a product you can choose another company you are not restricted to say with that company.

Did you sign a non-compete clause? Can you contact your team that you left behind? What about your former clients? How long is this clause inforced? He comes the what if’s. What if you find a better product you can not legally contact your you clients that you left behind. What if you want to tell your former team members or you former downline the better opportunity that you are involved with.

As far as the guaranteed premiums and convertability I would be foolish to leave that out of a contract if available. I would want to know for a fact that premium was not going to change for the life of the contract. I do not like suprises. I would also want the option to convert my policy. Crap happens in life look at the current crisis with the economy and how many people have lost thier savings. Did they plan for that? no. According to the Theory of Decreasing Responsibility, your need for life insurance peaks along with your family responsibilities and when you’re older, you usually have fewer dependents and fewer financial responsibilities. In a perfect world this maybe true. Just look around times are changing. Here comes the “what if’s. What if when we are older we do not have the income protection that we need for whatever circumstance and the head of household passes and the poor spouse is now faced with economic hardship. What then? I would be upset if my financial advisor did not did not at least recommed these options. What if later on in life my policy was not convertable and I contracted a medical condition that would not let me convert to a UL policy after my term contract has expired? Does the agent have their interest in the client or the commission?

Every situation is different when selling insurance and you can not cover every senerio. You must actually hear what you client is saying and open up your ears and really hear what they are saying. It’s great to educate your clients, but it is even better to hear what they are saying and put together a plan that has their interests and financial goals first, not yours. It is our job not to beat our chests and say our company is the best without actually caring about the client. I believe 100% that agents must do the right thing 100% of the time or do not do it at all.

Bottom line and again I will ask this question. When compairing your company to the other companies, what is best for the client? Is your product in the best interest of the client you are serving or is your interest only in the company that you are working for? There can be a beautiful balance for both the company and client and a win/win for all.

by: Answer This | February 22nd, 2009 (6:14 pm)

Another Art Williams gem. ” You wanna be somebody? You wanna be somebody? You want to get to the point in life where nobody can squeeze you. At A.L Williams you can become mega wealthy. Take your family on the great vacations. Be your own boss. We don’t sell policies, we sell hope…At ALW we have a company where the salespeople are king..etc, etc, etc,, ( Well really I forgot the rest)”

Here’s a classic I came across on another message board. I may have posted it before,

So as you PFS people can see for us it’s about the client and the opportunity. Being in a captive enviroment, it’s about the company..Read your contract.

That was a point made… ALW General Agency did allow you to be your own boss while today’s version does not truly allow it and ALW General Agency the agent had leverage, while today’s version of the ALW Agency the agent has little choice but to leave if they don’t like it. Even if they leave they have to uphold a non-compete for a couple fo years.

Art said “you have to have something unique”
That is so very true. They did back then in the 80’s but now in my opinion anyone pretty much has a comparable or even better system and products. It’s like they did not evolve, what’s more to me it looks that the sales force was somewhat isolated from information.
It is one of those problems that could arise when you submit to a system that suggests complete dependence on in-house workshops.
When you sit with a client they may have products that you understand very little about if all you get is sales training on the products you do have. Notice how agents from those places consistently suggest products they market without recommending other products that may be more suitable because they don’t know about them.

I think that in today’s enviroment you must bring to the table something that sets you apart from the other guy.
Today pretty much everyone has cheaper term policies with guaranteed level premiums.
So if you are a BTID agent you really must ask yourself if you have something the other guys does not have. Something that sets you apart from the pack of average agents.
What would that be?

Would it be a recruiting opportunity?
Well then hopefully you understand that you must have something that allows true ownership, no networking issues, no giving up legs and freedom to manage products with superior compensation.
If you have anything less than that you may be a bit outdated.
Which agency or agencies do you contract with Answer this?

RR, you keep saying there are better term products out there that are also less expensive. But you have yet to give any details about these better products. Why don’t you get specific and give us all some details. How about an actual policy from an actual company. Give us a real comparison instead of just running your mouth. And when you supply us with an actual comparison, don’t forget to also inform us as to the financial strength ratings of the companies you say have a better product. The rating I want to see is their Weiss rating. I won’t tell you what the Weiss rating is for PFS. I’ll assume you’re genius enough to find out and be honest enough to include that in your comparison. You know, since you’re all about doing what is right for the client and all. Here’s a hint. Companies with higher ratings get to charge more. You’re smart enough, that shouldn’t be news to you. So until you do this, I’ll continue to think you’re just another PFS basher with zero credibility.

Jose, I’m still waiting for you to come clean and tell us how much you make ripping people off. Remember? A $1 million whole life policy with a premium of $800 a month? You remember when I challenged you to come clean? What are you, a chicken?

While we’re at it, who do you work with RR? I don’t know but it sounds a lot like WFG. I’m probably wrong, but you know who I work with and I think it would be fair, since we’re having a debate, to know. Since you’re honest and everything, right?

by: Jose Soberanes | February 25th, 2009 (11:36 am)

No Eric,

I am well respect individual withing my community and my business. Your ignorance on this matter is tied to your relationship with Priamerica and that’s is where it will stay as long as you are in their care.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 25th, 2009 (11:41 am)


As for the less expensive policies out there in relation to Priamerica’s term, why don’t you waste your time and look it up, that way, when you see how many out there are less expensive, you yourself can go into shock without any of us seeing it.

Just as I figured, you’re a coward.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 25th, 2009 (11:57 am)


In my 40 years of life and my 9 years in this business it is unbelievable that adults still resort to teenage comunication. Where is Richard? His dialogue is more interesting and educated.

Well if you’re so grown up Jose,why don’t you come clean?

Hey Eric,

Don’t waste any more salive or your precious time with these jokers…just do what you always the right thing and replace all their policies as fast and as much as possible!!!

Look @ Hose Sober..up guy…he said ” In my 40 years of life and my 9 years in this business ..” his gettin old just like the rest of the industry..his time is dwindling down..their average agent ages are in the 50s..while Primericans are in their 30s…just like the dinosaurs their time has come and they will all BE extinct…we will make sure of that..because we are the ASTEROID that will wipe them off the planet!!! :p

p.s. no disrespect to all you who feel is your faith..your destiny so live with it!



I avoid inexperienced underlings because they are just ground beef here but I will make an exception for you. At least Richard knew who he was talking to but you guys just need fixing.

I have no relationship with the link I am disclosing in any way shape or form, I am not endorsing it in any professional capacity and I am only doing this to help a character named Eric get the quotes he needs for his own requested comparisons. This is not a solicitation for business or recruitment tactic.

Ok Eric…
You want to find cheaper carriers please go to any online quoting engine such as term4sale(dot)com
You will be able to set your parameters for ratings and guaranteed level premiums for any term. Satisfy yourself there…
It is kind of ironic that you talk comparisons yet you probably work with a carrier that does not provide quoting open to the public online. So exactly who is hiding specifics?
Where can the public read the very specifics you ask of others?

I already said that a carrier that has unisex ratings is not a hot deal in my opinion. What do you have to say about that specific there? Overcome that price grabber that has nothing to do with ratings. You actually correlated ratings to price and this is unlikely.

Quote a 30 year old female (highest preferred non-smoker) for 250,000 at a 30 year guaranteed level premium.
Feel free do quote males as well for the full effect.

I would not purchase a policy that is not guaranteed beyond 20 years either (another specific). We all know that there is a carrier with a real guaranteed level 35 year product that in my opinion is a better deal. Why? because it costs less, no unisex rating, fully convertible, great riders, same or better rating and all othis wrapped up in a fully guaranteed level policy!
Run the quotes and you’ll get the specific name. Print it, frame it and behold doing the right thing!

Hey guess what? I just looked at the 1/20/09 update of the Weiss list and I don’t see any carrier you are talking about on the free list of strongest carriers. I was happy to see 5 of my carriers there though. I am trying to see what your point was with that? Don’t tell me it was that price thing…
Which carrier are you with that is on that list?
You do know that there are more FSR companies too that are more prominent than Weiss right?

Oh yes… You claim that a carrier with a high FSR rating somehow charges more for that fact…
Let me get this right… Companies with higher rating can charge more? (your own words)…

Here I was under the crazy and ridiculous idea that something called M.I.E (mortality tables, expenses) and underwriting experience had something to do with premiums. Thanks for teaching me that concept of “charge more for a declining FSR since Sept 2008”. (You got that one right?)

Another specific to remember is that if you only write with one carrier you may be the last person in the list that can talk about doing the right thing. I don’t have to box anyone into one carrier.

I have already stated that I do not work for any individual agency or carrier. I own my own agency. Is that so hard to grasp?
I am not a sales rep for any one company!
Have you never seen an independent insurance agency when you walk by them?
When you need auto insurance… Don’t you go to a brokerage to see who can give you the best deal?
Don’t you know someone owns that brokerage? Hello!

Mark… You should not post while drinking and watching Armageddon but since you bring up that analogy.
You might want to remember companies get bought and sold all the time. Lets hope that asteroid doesn’t land too close huh?
You are closer to being a museum item than anyone else I have heard of. Has any insurer you know been deemed officially a non-core asset lately?

I’ll be 50 in about 15 years so I’ll always be here to smile at your jokes and inability to say anything substantial about finance matters.
No one here feels targeted. Why would they? You have not spoken about any financial strategy worth the time to read.
What can you do that anyone here isn’t already doing better anyway?

Help!!! In the middle of Primerica insurance sign up. My husband opted not to work for the co. despite the salesman’s pushing…. Still thinking about the insurance but already have a policy of term and whole life ins. from another co.. They make Pimerica sound so good…don’t know who to believe..HELP!!

Ohhhh, name calling. And Richard knew who he was talking too? Since when did the sun begin to shine out your ass? I didn’t know us “underlings” were supposed to fall down and worship all over you. Do your clients have to remove their shoes and give alms when they enter your office? Holy s*** you’re full of yourself. You probably think you can forgive me of all my sins too. So everyone, since God here won’t give you any numbers, I guess I’ll have to do it for Him. I went to your precious website. Here are the numbers. I got quotes for someone just like me. 45, standard, 30 year, $500,000. The least expensive was. . .

Male: Columbus Life Insurance Co. $164.90/ month. Weiss rating of B+
Female: Household LIfe Insurance Co. $116.38/month. Weiss rating of B
Total: $281.28/month

The same thing from Primerica: $310.18/month. That’s about 10% more. Primerica’s Weiss rating: A-

On Weiss I found 3 companies, not 5 that made the list and were found on your beloved website. And they are:

TIAA Cref: $167.84 Male, $$123.08 Female. Total of $290.92. Weiss Rating of A+. That’s $19.26 less than PFS.

Guardian Life of America: $193.12 Male, $123.08 Female. Total of $333.89. Weiss Rating of A. That’s $23.71 more than PFS.

Guardian had 2 versions of their 30 year term. One they called Level Gold Term (quoted above) and another called Level Gold Term (extended coverage). I don’t know what the difference is but the extended coverage was $27.04 amonth more for a total of $360.93. That would be $50.75 a month more than Primerica’s policy. Wait, I though PFS was outrageously expensive?

Here’s the 3rd one.

Mass Mutual: $317.12 Male, $219.24 Female. Total of $536.36. Huh? Over $200 more? Wait! Everything on God’s website is a better deal, better product, better everything than PFS. I think God has his facts all backwards.

It seems to me that PFS insurance is right in line with what is going on in the industry. From the entire list generated by your beloved website, PFS premiums are basically in line. RR wants you to think PFS is run by a bunch of country bumpkins. PFS places in force around 90 Billion in individual life insurance each year. Do you really think a company of that size is being run by a bunch of behind the times morons? RR, you’re an idiot!

Here’s a quote from God’s beloved website.

“The cheapest policy isn’t always the best policy. There are other differences that you should consider before choosing the company and product that is best for you. Many of those other differences are subjective. This means that they cannot be compared by simply placing values side by side on a piece of paper, as we can do with premiums.”

If you want cheap, then go and buy cheap. God, PFS has never claimed to be the least expensive insurance available. I also know good and well PFS is not the most expensive. Not even close. I know you would like to convince everyone otherwise. There are plenty of carriers out there that charge ALOT more and they sell plenty of insurance. I’ll assume you are busy bashing all of those companies too, because you know, you’re so full of doing what’s right for the customer and all. Oh, and I tried to get a 35 year quote on your beloved website. Problem is, they don’t offer one. Maybe there’s a secret link I couldn’t find. If you could help me out on that one, thanks. I know AIG has a 35 year product. But I don’t think I would be sending that company one penny of my money right now. How about you? See, that goes to the financial strength rating of a company. Back in May, Moody’s downgraded AIG from Aa3 to Aa2. Give me a break. Oh, that’s really taking them to task. At the same time, Fitch reaffirmed their AA- rating. Are you kidding me? AIG insurance would have to be free for me to take it. AM Best cut their rating from A++ to A+. Huh? S&P lowered theirs from A- to BBB+. Oooooh, another big reduction! Weiss’ current rating is B-. The whole point (I can’t believe I have to point this out, after all God, you should be able to read my mind) is the Big 4 rating companies ratings aren’t worth spit! It is common knowledge that S&P routinely maintains their highest ratings on companies even as they’re going under. Same with Fitch, Moody’s and AM Best. Not so with Weiss. This is my personal opinion and not some official line from PFS. I know I’ll get a long winded post from RR trying to educate this underling about rating companies. I don’t care. My personal opinion is the big 4 ratings aren’t worth spit. So save the post God.

I did see something interesting when I was on God’s holy website. I tried all kinds of quotes. A few times I noticed they have a quote from Primerica. So I checked and it was dead on. And you know what? PFS wasn’t the most expensive in any case. Neither was it the least expensive in any case. Imagine that, our premiums are right in there with the mass of other insurance companies.

by: Answer This | February 25th, 2009 (9:17 pm)

Danielle it wouldn’t be in your best interest for someone to just make a suggestion to you without knowing your family situation. You can always shop your business with an independent agent. If you go to and input your zip code for a basic quote, it will also list I think 3 separate agents in your area. Just never drop any coverage before you have other coverage in place. Make sure you discuss the contestability time limits with the agents. Believe the contracts. Whomever you decide to go with, make sure they explain the policy to you. Sop if after a few days you find something you don’t understand, call the agent or have them come over and explain it.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 26th, 2009 (12:10 am)


I would full agree with “Answer This’s” suggestions. Also, I would tell that pushy salesman that you want some time and will look at different reccomendations to achieve your goal and see what his reaction is.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 26th, 2009 (12:15 am)

As for Eric’s insults, its apparent that RR, Answer This and myself are independant agents and he probably is just ticked off because he works at his unhappy full time job and his part time Priamerica stint and doesnt know what else to say except inmature remarks.

Can you imagine having this type of agent looking over your finances. No way!

It means that at least Richard spoke with more class than you and that despite differences in opinion even he knows that a 35 year product exist.

You combined different carriers / products and still $29 less than that carrier you use. Nice move that is how it’s done and it beat you.
So you are saying those $29 applied to your own rule of 72 over 30 years are nothing to consider huh?
You don’t know quoting too well. You need to know what each company specializes in. Some carriers have better deals for male smokers while others don’t. Get it? It is your job to know who to procure and how to use them…

Now if the price is lower that is a plus for Columbus and Household without a doubt. What if we assume on top that they can guarantee premiums beyond 20 years as well?
Then would you be honest enough to tell your client that they save $29 with carriers outside your domain?
That you can increase their FIN# by thousands with this $29 savings over 30 years?
Would you be honest enough to tell them their premiums may also be guaranteed if they go with those carriers?
That they may have conversion features that are useful too?
What do you do?
Where will your allegiance be?
You tell your client that they should pay $29 more because… What?
That they should take a policy that may have limited conversion features and pay more too?
That they should run the risk of an increase after 20 years?

You are allegedly quoting $310.18 a month for a policy that at you age may not be level for all 30 years. Don’t forget that there… Your premiums over time can increase after 20 years.
So EVEN if I granted you the same premium it may only last 20 years. It should be noted that you may be lying through your teeth too in your quote since we cannot quote you openly but we’ll take your word for it.
Assuming the premiums were the same for the first 20 years the policy benefits from other comparable carriers beat you anyway in value.
Now if we calculate total cost over time (30 years) then your example now may cost more due to possible increases during the last 5 to10 years. Specially at your age. Never mind longer periods…

Also, your ratings rant is unethical and pointless. Everyone here knows that policy reserves are backed by NOLHGA just like the FDIC insures bank accounts so show some integrity.
You should never imply that an insurer may default based on your ignorant opinion. You say rating doesn’t matter but half your post takes up your ratings rant? Come on…
I don’t care if any company claims not to be the cheapest. What does that mean anyway? That it has hidden value?
If they were that good I would write them myself. Just tell me where the value for the price is then?

Is there value in your experience as an agent? Talk to us about how you can turn a term policy into an asset without ROP.
Tell us why or how conversions to permanent programs have a positive use in estate planning.
How will you improve taxation of assets with the use of life insurance?

I am supposed to find the best value and that I would not allow a company to dictate the excuses I would have to give my clients for not doing a better job and forcing them to pay more because I am unable to seek out a better deal.
Good day! :)

Just got home, read your post and almost fell asleep. War and Peace has nothing on you RR.

Can you understand what you read when you read it? I know there are 35 yr. terms out there. I didn’t say there wasn’t. Read my post again. And where did I say ratings don’t matter? My whole point was that ratings absolutely matter. Again, you struggle to understand what you read don’t you? And since you’re going on about NOLHGA, I’ll assume you know that there are limits to the coverage, right? If you have a $1million policy and your company goes under, well, NOLHGA aint covering the whole thing. I’ll put it that way. Don’t tell me you tell your clients they’re totally protected by our wonderful government. Talk about unethical! Each state varies but the typical limit is $300,000. Bu I’ll assume you already knew that, being as I’m an underling and all.

Let’s talk about your value as a whole life con artist. Do you actually sell your clients that permanent insurance can somehow improve their estate? That it can somehow reduce inheritance taxes? That by plowing tons of money into a dinosaur financial product their heirs will be better off? Go back to my post on Dec. 4 and prove to me my numbers are wrong. So far, none of you have even attempted it. I wonder why? If that guy followed my advice, his heirs would have more money AFTER paying estate taxes than they would by following your advice and avoiding estate taxes. Where does the difference go? It goes into the pockets of you so called financial advisors. Go ahead RR, get out your calculator and start crunching. Let’s see if you’re smart enough to figure it out. Until your math proves me wrong, you aint got no value.

by: Answer This | February 26th, 2009 (9:05 am)

Eric no one is saying they promote Whole Life as a main product. As for long term coverage there are also Universal life products that can be guaranteed to most any age. With those policies the cash value is kept low enough (basically zero) to keep the policy in force for the required length needed. As for the reference to America General, it’s kind of the same situation as Citigroup and Primerica. AIG has issues, not American general. Citi has issues not Primerica. The difference is Citi can’t find any buyers (Per media) for Primerica and has the option of winding them down. Do you tell your clients and recruits about that situation?

As for the use of the term site, it’s just a reference, because nothing is in stone until the client goes through underwriting. Some companies underwrite more than others. In some cases I run into people who just don’t want people taking blood or coming to their home for a paramed. That’s why I have have access to carriers who don’t require exams. They basically just check data bases to verify the med information given. So there’s quite a bit that goes into policy pricing.

The problem for me with the PFS mantra is the “brain washing” that they are the only one’s out doing the BTID concept and out to help people. If you look read your post many of us agree with you, just not about using Primerica as the be all to end all. If looking at BTID if another company will write a wife better than the husband, why not use that company and another for the husband? That’s doing what’s best for the client. You see I drank the kool-aid until I ran across situation like that. Primerica was everything. They had the best products, the best service and the best agents. No company can be all that. How can anyone defend one company against a whole industry? Just consider this. Primerica/ALW has been in business for over 30 years and where are the masses of financially independent people? What about all the agents who bought Citi stock over the years? At some point people have to start thinking for themselves, and stop looking all glassy eyed when a speaker is up on the podium.

It’s fact that term insurance is good for most people and there are many different companies that offer it. It’s fact that new agents can get better contracts outside of PFS. It’s a fact that PFS limits their products to their agents. It’s a fact that most PFS agents are part-time and are independent contractors. My question is this. If people are part-time and independent contractors (Not employees to PFS) what is the big issue with who you use BTIV? PFS is one company among many? Is their program that strong across the board or is it the kool-aid? Think about it. You PFS agents can make more money doing the same things and more outside of PFS, but your so loyal that you will restrict your income which directly effects your lifestyle for your family. Which brings out another question. Where is your loyalty? With your family, friends and clients, or to PFS and your RVP? You see when I left PFS it bothered me mailing in my resigination letter. It bothered me for a few days. Notice I said a few days? Why, because Primerica legal sent me a letter basically saying thank you for your time and send us back any printed material you have and stay way from your business you built for a set length of time. So you see PFS agents get caught up in all the emotional stuff and really believe that 100% of the time they are what’s best for everyone. It’s just not true because PFS won’t cover everyone. You see it comes down to this. It’s business. How do you want to service “YOUR clients? You find them, educate them and then cover them. Do you want to do what’s best in your opinion or what;s best in the companies opinion? If I have a client who is going through a divorce and balks at court ordered coverage, yes i’m going to offer a ROP term as an option. The client has the option to say that’s not what they want, but then it might be something they do want. It’s about having option to assist your clients. One way is for the benefit of the company.

the more you guys argue, the closer you become to leaving PFS and going independent. Once you get the basic training and over come the fear of doing presentations or prospecting you will see it makes much more business sense to go independent, especially if you can do it on a part-time basis. You can debate all you want about the term site, but we all know the market your in and that market has limited funds. If you know you can get a client more coverage for their premium dollar and you still sit there and keep other information from your clients who may just be a family member let alone a spouse you are putting the needs of the company (PFS) above all else. On a personal level if you died right now (God forbid, and at least wait until you finish reading this post) what amount of check would go to your spouse? Take what your paying (PFS) now and shop coverage amounts. Just move the numbers around on the term site. After you do that, ask yourself again, where is your loyalty?? Then ask your spouse which amount would they rather have. That’s where the quote “All You Can Do, Is All You Can Do. But All You Can Do Is Enough.” Help people to the best of your abilities. One product and limited offerings are in the best interest of the company.

Drink up..

by: Jose Soberanes | February 26th, 2009 (11:38 am)

Greatly put “Answer This”

My experience with Primerica is limited and maybe one of you former Primerica guys or agents still with Primerica can answer a couple of questions about Primericas recruiting practices since we are also comparing Primerica with other companies.

I had no experience working for or with Primerica as an agent or employee. Here is how I was contacted. I received a phone call out of the blue (a cold call), from a Primerica representative stating that he received a business card from a friend saying that I would be a great asset as a manager within his company and would like to know if I was interested in coming down for an interview. WOW I was curious and entertained his offer and set an appointment to discuss this job opportunity. Long story short I went to the office filled out a form and waited to have my interview. The interview basically like this, you can make alot of more and the majority of our Agents are making over 100K and in a few years you can have your own office. Now I am seeing that this job interview is a recruiting interview for me to join a company that is not an actual job working for a compaany as an in house employee but rather as an independent contractor working for commissions. Why not be honest up front and explain that this is a “business opportunity” that I have to invest into. After doing some research online I actually made the decision to go independent. I felt deceived.

After reading the IBA it was very restrictive. Here are some points that I considered:

You are an independent contractor (and not an employee or officer of any Primerica Company, or an owner of any part of the Primerica sales force or customer base), which means that you may exercise considerable discretion in how you conduct your business. You are responsible for your own expenses, including federal and state self-employment taxes, Primerica
Company administrative fees and other expenses you incur. The Primerica Companies may periodically change products, services, compensation and marketing programs.

This Agreement may be terminated by either party with or without any reason or cause. This Agreement shall also automatically terminate in the event of your death.

I will solicit and sell only Primerica financial products and services. I will not solicit, sell, market or promote any investment, note, loan, insurance policy or any other financial product or service not approved by Primerica.

You recognize that the Primerica Companies invest substantial sums in building and maintaining the Primerica sales force, and that retaining agents and protecting the Primerica sales force from unfair competition are important to both Primerica and agents of the Primerica sales force. Accordingly, you agree that you will not, directly or indirectly, solicit any Primerica agent for the purpose of inducing the agent to leave, to engage in any other direct marketing activity, or to reduce his or her activity with any Primerica Company. This restriction will be effective until two (2) years after termination of this Agreement.

You recognize that it takes a substantial period of time for Primerica Life to earn a return on its investment in new insurance policies and other products and services. This investment includes commissions you may receive. To protect this investment, and to protect Primerica agents’ stake in their own commissions, it is important for Primerica to preserve its customer base and avoid unfair competition. Accordingly, during the term of this Agreement and for two (2) years after its termination, you agree that you will not, directly or indirectly, solicit any Primerica Life insurance purchaser (that is, the policy owner who personally dealt with you or another Primerica agent to obtain the insurance) for the purpose
of inducing him or her to reduce, terminate or replace that policy. Following termination of this Agreement, this provision will be limited to prohibiting your soliciting, directly or indirectly, Primerica Life insurance purchasers only when all four of the following additional criteria are met: (i) the solicitation is of a Primerica Life insurance purchaser with whom you or your downline agents personally dealt on behalf of Primerica Life;
(ii) the solicitation is of a Primerica Life insurance purchaser whose purchases of Primerica Life insurance resulted in your earning commissions (which should be evident, for example, in commission records provided to you); (iii) the Primerica Life policies that you are attempting to reduce, terminate or replace are less than seven (7) years old at the time of the solicitation; and (iv) the solicitation is of a Primerica Life insurance purchaser who lives at the time of the solicitation within fifty (50) miles of the location of any of the principal address(es) that you had during the one (1) year period before termination of this Agreement (as determined in accordance with this Agreement or any written amendment). Prior to termination
of this Agreement, these four criteria are not applicable. You agree that this restriction is a fair and reasonable way to help protect Primerica Life’s customer base against unfair competition.

Now I am no lawyer, but the cards are not stacked in my favor. If I join I can not sell any other products that are not Primericas. If I leave to find a better company or products for my client I can not tell them or even talk to them for 2 years this would even include my former agents that I worked with within Primerica.

If I am going to be an independent business owner not an employee why would I want to restrict myself?

Now further research was done at the Primerica website under important disclosures link at the top of the page and this is what I found.

Financial Needs Analysis

The Financial Needs Analysis (FNA) is designed to assist you in identifying your financial needs and goals so that you can make better informed decisions in managing your money. An FNA is developed based on information you provide, as summarized on data input pages, and on certain generally accepted assumptions and reasonable estimates. It is provided to you as a complimentary, no-obligation service by Primerica Financial Services. The Financial Needs Analysis is not a financial plan. The FNA should be construed as a guide for you to use in deciding how best to attain your financial goals. Representatives are compensated through commissions or referral fees on the sale of financial products offered by the financial product companies they represent. Representatives are not financial planners, investment advisors, financial consultants or other specialists who provide financial advice and whose compensation may be unrelated to sales.—- This is not a financial plan and Representatives are not financial planners or financial consultants. This would mean that they are only sales people that can only offer what Primerica sells. If there are better options then they are restrited and not allowed to give choices and options to thier clients.

Another disclosures. The products and services offered by the companies noted above may not be available in your jurisdiction, state or province. The products and services your Primerica representative may be able to offer also may be limited. Please consult your local Primerica office or your Primerica representative for a listing of products and services available.—- So if you can not offer a product because of an are maybe limited or not available, you can not offer them anything. How does this help the client?

And last but not least, Personal Income
Any cash flows or success stories stated are not intended to demonstrate the earnings or success levels of typical RVPs/representatives. Rather, they reflect the potential that comes with building your business, and there is no guarantee that you will achieve any specific cash flow or success level. Most RVPs/representatives do not achieve the cash flow or success levels illustrated. In the 12?month period ending in December 2007, Primerica’s sales force consisted of approximately 100,000 life?licensed representatives, to whom the Company paid a total of $682,000,000 in compensation, an average of $6,820 per licensed representative. Average RVP earnings are typically higher. Actual gross cash flow is, among other factors, dependent upon the size and scale of a representative’s organization, the number of sales and the override spread on each sale, and the ability and efforts of you and your downlines. Having said this, Primerica provides a tremendous opportunity for individuals who work hard and who desire to develop a business with strong income potential.—-An average of an average of $6,820 per licensed representative. I was told that most agents make around 100K with some hard work.

I believe that there are agents that really do not know the options that are available and Primerica is their first opportunity selling financial products. I was considering it until I did the research. If you believe that Primerica is the bomb then that is your decision and I respect that. I just encourage you to make sure that you investigate all options before you continue to promote your companys products. Remember you are the one that has to feel good when you leave that clients kitchen table knowing that you did the right thing for that client.

Now back to my original question. Why are the recruiting practices so deceptive? Why not call it what is is upfront? I have a business opportunity I need you to look at and not a job for a managers potion. Was my experience unique or is this a common practice? I understand the need for recruitment and how it works but why not say that at the begininng.

Why when making sales calls while in the “training phase to your warm market that you give to your trainer “you say “Hi, __________, this is __________. Do you and ____________ have any plans on __________ or __________evening?”
“ The reason I asked is because I am going to work with a new company and I am so impressed by what they do for families that I am seriously considering making a career change. But before I make such a big decision, I am contacting some of my closest friends to get their opinion on what it is I am doing. I was hoping we could get together. Would you and __________ be willing to help me out?” or you may say “The reason I asked is because I NEED YOUR HELP. I am looking at making a career change. I am currently working part-time and attending training classes. As part of my training, I also need to perform some hands-on training and practice a presentation. Would you and __________ be willing to help me out?” Why not tell them that you are doing what you are doing and you if you can make their finances more efficient and save them money would they give you the opportunity to do so. I did not receive this traininfg from Primerica I found it on the net from many Primerica teams talking about how to get appointments and recruiting pratices. It was apart of my research to make sure that I was doing the right thing.

Final thought. If you are a business owner, should you be allowed to move your clients if they wanted to or a least be able to talk to them ? Remember the non-compete clause? You should be able to take your downlines with you right? Should you be able to sell your business? Should you be able to sell any product or service you want? Should you be able to do this part time or full time at any level? Should you be able to work this from home and not required to have an office if you did not want an office? If you do not have these freedoms with your budsiness ownership then what do you have?

Agreed but I am still waiting for a financial topic from him rather than a subjective argument as to why he has to work with a flat head screwdriver only.

Eric, your point was that ratings meant a certain policy was worth nothing because you could not beat it otherwise, then you contradicted yourself (ratings mean nothing) and now you are back playing greasy pig assuming that all policies will go over the NOLHGA limits and STILL implying one should not sell it because YOU say the company is in dire trouble (fear based sales tactic). Well isn’t your carrier subject to ratings shitfing as well? I understand you are selling that unfounded fear to yourself. What will you do if they take away that carrier from you?
Also Answer this explained to you that parent ratings and insurance division ratings are not to be confused ok.

Not to mention that I have over 15 carriers that are not affected and ready to beat any numbers you can dish out.

Your numbers on Dec 4th are not realistic. At 38 term is still a viable option so I would not be issuing a permanent plan there.
Your numbers are completely biased into the assumption of WL issuance at age 38. No ability to customize for life huh?
Don’t you understand you are speaking about things that you have little knowledge of?
You don’t get permanent product training or estate taxation raduction strategies. Do you really think your millionaire idols don’t own permanent plans? How foolish!
Some of them even sell products you are not aware of and then they tell you to go build it big with your hands tied behind your back!
Meanwhile they play in their golf courses happy that you keep them there.
Calculators do lie if you input false info to begin with.

You are still acting out that program you have been brainwashed with. You think that we are as fixated with WL as you are with your one concept.
Not true at all. We issue more competitive term products and more competitive permanent products where needed.
You are so behind conceptually you actually really think you are dealing with the 1980’s WL products.
We have computers preparing illustrations with precise calculations to avoid creating MECs. That is an issue more inherent to VUL in bull markets and who’s talking that here?

Answer this told you that you limit your income. Think there.
How can they promise you wealth with one average product in a few lines and lacking all others while prohibiting them too?

If you client goes to an independent because they need something you do not issue it’s over for you and the referrals.
Is that worth one average term policy with a relatively low compensation and a host of other limitations?
Including no real ownership or control? Go ahead debate that one…

If you saw that you quoted lower with another carrier that does not limit you. Why are you still justifying that trend of yours?
You found lower cost term and cheaper can be better. Cheaper also means YOU are expensive without justification too!
I asked you to tell me one thing you can do that I cannot do and then imagine you being in this position for a change.
Do you really think I have someone telling me to sell WL??? LOL How silly! We are not in brainwash boot camp, we are independent and able to practice BTID better if that is what the client needs.

Oh my… L Vegas came in with the big guns blazing!

by: Answer This | February 26th, 2009 (5:43 pm)

RR I noticed those contradictions myself, but as we know sometimes the more people speak the deeper the hole they can dig themself into. I just think it’s amazing that agents arn’t asking questions about the future of the company. Why would a agent paid for convention be cancelled? The agents pay for their own ticket, hotels and travel. Primeica pays for the convention so as I assumed.. Now if Citi paid for the convention center in ATL and they were going to shut them down or sell them I guess there’s no value in them sponsoring the convention so I would cancel it too.. It’s kind of like when I worked in a warehouse. The company took down the signage and yet was telling the employees everything was ok. When the announcement of the warehouse closing came down, people were amazed and shocked. I told those people to notice the signs, but as always some moved closer to the table and drank the kool-aid. Me I switched to orange juice.

People, L. Vegas posted some great info. Read it very carefully and go back to your agent agreement and read it. Do you notice anything? People we are not here to bash PFS. We are here to inform on what we didn’t know. LOL..After doing battles on message boards and being confronted with facts, I felt like a fool. I felt I was played like a fine tuned piano by the system. Think about this for a minute. Put down the glass of kool-aid and drink some water. Now consider this. You go out and prospect a client. You do a presentation. You design a plan for them. You go back and sell the program. YOU, YOU,,YOU do all the work. Well for all that effort you were paid 25% in the beginning and it only cost you $100.00 to get started….( What was your RVP paid and who made the most form the sale when you did 95% of the work?) Yea I was a sucka drinking kool-aid. How sweeeet it is..

Well let’s take a look at how much it really cost. L.V. provided the answer..

“You recognize that the Primerica Companies invest substantial sums in building and maintaining the Primerica sales force, and that retaining agents and protecting the Primerica sales force from unfair competition are important to both Primerica and agents of the Primerica sales force. Accordingly, you agree that you will not, directly or indirectly, solicit any Primerica agent for the purpose of inducing the agent to leave, to engage in any other direct marketing activity, or to reduce his or her activity with any Primerica Company. This restriction will be effective until two (2) years after termination of this Agreement.”

****In some state noncompetes are not enforcable. I think two I know of are Calif. and Michigan…Georgia might be one of them also so check with your Attorney.

So in the long term paying that $100.00 to get started may not be such a small sum after all considering what you have to give up. One more thing when signing up I never heard anything about giving up any legs…..Forget the products for a minute. This is contract…Think about it..

Answer this:
I am recovering from a minor surgery and this place simply caught my attention. You are so right about cancelling events, they did not take TARP funds. Events that are largely sponsored by agents as they do pay for admission and hotel fees too! No goverment money would have been involved. Also these trips would have motivated them to do more. Why cancel something so important to their system of rallies or training? These are some tactics…

The agency has it’s own responsibilities and it should not have been cancelled that way after them having done the work!
You see these guys don’t get that we are just outside the box so we call it as we see it but that in some things I do support them.

At least in that trip issue I say that was wrong! If a company did that to me I would not write for them. I would ask them if they came up with that idea before or after the incentive sales were in. They dangle a bonus program to the rest and they forget what was done to the trip winners. The rest probably don’t care since they weren’t going. The company should have stood up for their top producers PERIOD!

I think they recently adjusted commissions based on face values of 500K or more. Richard if you are still around can you please describe what that is all about?
Read your contract guys!!!


Yes I am still around, just been working with more clients, some of which are considerably more affluent.

As for the convention and the 2 trips canceled this year (one of which, contest had just started), it was canceled due to pressure from Citi not wanting bad publicity.

AIG got plenty of bad publicity for a $400k trip, how would Citi look if one of its’ subsidiaries spent several million when it also received bailout money? John did fight to the bitter end to allow the convention and trips to stay, however in the end, it was decided to just give in and do bonuses in exchange.

All those that won the Bahamas’ trip did receive a bonus in exchange. Instead of the convention in ATL, they are doing local conferences. I have not heard of any changes to commission for over 500k policies, however, they did increase bonuses to all levels as well as “kicker” bonuses for hitting certain numbers.


Love the new site design.

by: Answer This | February 26th, 2009 (8:31 pm)

Why would Citi look bad if PFS had taken their trip? It could have been explained that PFS isn’t having any financial issues and could have been used for the benefit of PFS. I just think Citi couldn’t care less, what benefit is it to them to go ahead with the convention?

Please don’t say they offer bonuses. That means they want to give an incentive to SELL..Hey Richard glad to see you back. I guess John is ready to go….

Let’s all remember we can fight like family (Eric), but at the end of the day it’s not personal. We jump on Richard, but he doesn’t cuss at anyone. He understands he represents PFS (Why I still don’t know) but he takes his beating and keeps on ticking. LOL

Richard what would you think of M. Vick going to the Cowboys?

by: The Financial Blogger | February 26th, 2009 (8:42 pm)



I feel like a girl with a new haircut and nobody is noticing 😉 hahahaha!

Even when explained as PFS being financially stable, it’s all paid for, no debt, plus money in the bank, Citi is still technically the parent. Citi received a bailout and the news people would focus on “Citi received a bailout and are using it to send agents on trips.” Not “PFS’s agents have earned this trip and paying for it out of surplus. An added benefit is boosting the local economy.”

Which would sell more news?

As for the bonuses, I’ve yet to find any insurance company that did not offer bonuses to their agents.

Although I support the Cowboys, I don’t pay much attention to them. It’s kinda like supporting the home team without caring what is going on.

Any chance of fixing the error on AJAX comments? Every time I submit, it post’s but errors out.

by: The Financial Blogger | February 26th, 2009 (8:56 pm)

I know, I’m still trying to fix this!
any idea?
send me an email ;-0

by: Jose Soberanes | February 26th, 2009 (11:17 pm)


That was a hilarious comment.


While posting online, especially when it is known what company you represent, it is best to keep things civil and respectful.

The comments you just made could be grounds for termination from ANY company as it is disrespectful to others.

I admit I don’t always follow this, but I do apologize when I cross the line.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 27th, 2009 (2:40 pm)


Would you act more professional, you are doing a disservice to our industry and yourself with unthinking comments.

by: Jose Soberanes | February 27th, 2009 (2:47 pm)

Does Priamerica have a hiring method that takes into account professionalism, positive atiitude and respectful manners or do they just hire anyone that can breath.

As stated many times before all over the internet:

Primerica’s agents are not hired, they are recruited as independent contractors. Each agent is responsible for their own screening of new recruits.

It is encouraged to not recruiting “anyone who can breath.” Some offices have higher standards while others do not.

by: The Financial Blogger | February 27th, 2009 (3:19 pm)

I had to delete your latest comment. I can’t let people insulting each other.

While it is hard for me to follow all the comment posted on my Primerica series, I still try to keep the blog clean if you know what I mean 😉



by: Answer This | February 27th, 2009 (6:01 pm)

Richard. I can’t prove it, but I have heard John himself say PFS throws poeple against the wall and keep who sticks. Ask around i’m sure you will find people who have heard and used that phrase when talking about recruiting. Something else to consider is it’s not so much the recruit, because they are probably going to quit at some point the key is having access to the new recruits warm market.

Great look TFB. I’m buying a round of kool-aid for everyone. Let’s keep it clean folks.

I never said that didn’t happen. And there are agents that do exercise that mentality. There are several in my office that do that. They recruit 10, 15, 20, 30 a month and have nothing to show for it at the end of the month. Others recruit 2 or 3 a month and have a growing business.

I prefer to be a bit more discerning and instead of giving everyone who breaths a chance, I look for certain qualities in people and give those a chance.

You were romancing affluent clients and forgot us… What a Pri-guy :)

I see your point that news don’t care about those minor KEY details that make ALL the difference.
Yes Pri-guys are independent contractors but the contract is not independent. In essence you become an exclusive sales person for them but because they word the contract as an independent contractor they avoid certain liabilities.
In my humble opinion the exclusivity comes at a very high price though. If you are exclusive then your products should be utterly unbeatable because you are giving up all others.


I wasn’t really romancing them since the deal is done. :) Besides, they are good friends of mine and have already started forwarding there other friends and associates over.

This also includes taking care of estate issues with their appropriate attorneys.

So far, they love me and can’t believe this “exclusive” guy is beating out their “independent” guy. Some things are more expensive, but performance is better.


So far, I see 3 404’s, but they are unrelated to the issue at hand…at least partially. 2 of them are the same file (loading.gif). It is trying to pull from instead of


The error I see is related to a redirect. Instead of sending back a proper response to update the comment list, it sends back a url to redirect to. The error comes in since that url does not exist.

All and all, it’s the plugin. The author should be notified.

by: Answer This | February 27th, 2009 (7:45 pm)

The mass recruiters are working the numbers. If I remember correctly they used to say it takes 100 recruits to get an RVP? The system is designed for the recruiters. How many of the Pri-Guys ( I like that) at the top used selective recruiting? I think it’s safe to say none. If the system could support that, it could support personal production. Recruit, recruit, recruit…

The average is 17 Licensed Reps.

Wether that is 17 Recruits or 200 Recruits is dependent on the person doing the recruiting AND training.

by: RRodriguez | March 5th, 2009 (1:35 pm)

Oh Richard I am no average independent guy so implying that because you allegedly spank one that would be the fate of someone like me is not even a possibility.

Now what kind of state planning are you speaking of?
You sent them to that PPL attorney or other?
The attorney could tell the client to get permanent plans at some point you know that right?
Now think… Why would anyone use those kinds of plans at the end of the theory of decreasing responsibility?
I mean according to that they are not supposed to need any further coverage right?

Why is it that concept may no longer hold strongly in today’s evolved financial strategies?
What is the strategy an exclusive guy would use to transfer any left over wealth efficiently to heirs?
How can you avoid or lessen both income and estate taxation in the process with life insurance use?
You see… You are number one only until someone better comes along because knowledge is provisional. That is to say one thinks he knows until they are shown something new and it may be opposed to the old ways but it’s here now.
How did you use your policy to help them in these matters?
This is serious, not poking or anything I really want to know.

by: Answer This | March 5th, 2009 (2:25 pm)

Hey RR back up off the PPL Attorney. I get some great information from them. Whew,,ok my blood pressure can go back down now. The key here is Richard said they are friends of his. Is the major point he “beat” and independent or he did the best job for the client?

I’m sure Richard did the best job he could do with what he had. If he is getting referrals at some point one of those referrals he will go see will not be one of his friends and they will run his program across someone else and can you say CHARGEBACK….LOL…RR we know how it’s going to play out. Different levels of money have different levels of access to information. PFS doesn’t market to the affluent for a reason and Richard is about to find out why.

PFS agents don’t go outside your market.

Answer This wrote.

Here is something I found about when I left PFS. PFS has an agreement with Pre-Paid legal to offer a Primerca branded Legal plan. I wanted to continue sellign legal plans along with the new products i had available when going independent. Well I was informed by Pre-Paid legal per agreement with PFS if a PFS agent leaves PFS they can not contract with PPL directly for a period of 6 months. Now it gets better. If I wanted to offer my former clients any PPL products directly I couldn’t. Once I left PFS those clients were the property of PFS per noncompete.

So again I am understanding that if you are a PFS agent you are captive to only one legal plan company that you can offer your clients while being with Primerica.

I have never used PPL so I can not say how good they are or how bad they are that is not the issue here. What if you wanted to offer a different company or some different choices that would work better for your clients? Comparing Primerica to other companies it seems that you are limited as far as carriers you can use and options you can offer your clients.

I found 17 companies that offer similiar products doing a simple web search. There may be a lot more I do not know. They varied from estate planning, personal legal service, personal/family legal service, and business legal service which included individual and group plans ranging from 14 dollars a month and up.

RR You are bring up some great points about estate taxes. Insurance is not a one size fits all. There are many different reasons to have insurance and that’s why there are different types of insurance products.

As an independent I want to be able to serve all people and families no matter how much they earn and not be limited to only one market. If they can afford it then they should have the right to have the option to protect their family and their estate. It does not matter if the have a 50K policy or 1,000,000. The concept is to protect your family with what you can afford so that your family does not have financial hardship or at least lesson some of the burden if something should happen.

by: Answer This | March 6th, 2009 (10:49 am)

L.Vegas. One of tje main points are the limitations Primerica has on their agents even though they are independent contractors and in most cases part-time just wanting to earn some extra income. Primerica as a business can offer any plan they so choose they don’t twist anyone’s arm to contract with them. In my humble opinion many agents just don’t know what they don’t know about the opportunities that are in the industry. Many PFS people have a us against the world mindset thinking they are back in the old ALW crusade days. That was a different time and a whole different animal.

The bottom line is if Primerica doesn’t offer it they can’t sell it. I do know there is a 6 months waiting period when going from PFS to PPL, but I don’t think it’s really enforced. Of course i wouldn’t want anyone to violate their agreement they have with PFS..
Something else I noticed when I was at PFS. A new person could make more money faster if they sold the Primerica Legal Protection Plan rather than the life products. Especially if they did it by group business. There’s is no underwriting. I forget the compensation, but if an new agent did a group of about ten they could make some good income. Maybe one of the PFS agents will run some numbers.

The Legal Plan is another issue. They will sell a Life plan, but hardly anyone sells the Legal plan which will give the client a Will, Living Will and Durable Power of Attorney and give the client access to an Attorney to make sure they have their beneficiary designations up to date and correct….I mention Estate Planning to all my clients and they have a choice of an Attorney of their own or the use of PPL. they have a choice of using the State provided estate plan or the one they provide. Captive and part-time…Why?? Only if you don’t know any better.

One last question for the Primerica guys or former Primerica guys.

If a person joins Primerica and decides to pass down his business to a family memeber since it is his business, is he allowed to transfer or sell his busines at any level he is currently at? If one of my childern obtain the license through the state DOI and wish to start selling insurance, can they take over my business. As an independent business owner I have this option and I do not have to be at a certain level to exercise this right. Does Primerica have this option or do you have to sell or transfer you business back to the company? If one of your childern decided to get their license would Primericas stragety is to recruit them and make them start from scratch?

Richard and RR I love the different point of views and RR is right you cannot have a one size fits all mind.

Answer This. You gave a great objective response. I guess you would have to make the decision if you were only in for a part time gig to make some money, then Primerica could be a good fit. My reason for joining the group that I am with is because I can have a great part time business which I get paid well and I do not have to market only to a certain class I can go out side the box to all types of income, low or high and use the different insurance products to meet the clinets needs. This would include estate planning, substandard risk, low income etc. If one carrier does not offer what the clients needs then I move over to another carrier because I have the freedom to give these options to my client. It is my responsibility to make sure that this is a Win/Win situation. I find the product or products that the client needs according to their goals not mine and I receive compensation through the carrier for this. Win/Win. If a client does not feel comfortable with one of my carriers then I have the option to make available another one.

Again I wouldlike to know the rules about selling or transferring my business since I do not know offically.

oh my my it seems i worked up a storm…man I cant believe you actually fell for what i wrote before..i thought that we where just talking amoung buddies..I was just testing your patience…well if its any consolation here you go: “I respectfully apologies on behalf on my ill manners and my vulgar derogatory comments that I posted earlier” Anyway, jose as long as you know that in your heart and your good conscience you really believe that what you are doing is the best and right thing you can offer your clients best interests then so be it! Its like Karma..what goes around comes around! Is this really an official website that we can get info and base our decisions on what to do about the Primerica Opportunity…I wonder..anyways you all have fun and I will just focus my attention with the outmost respect,professionalism and dedication to my team and my clients rather than wasting my time in this blog!

Good luck to you all!

P.s. TFB why dont you make a series on AIG..they’re way bigger than Primerica..with more negative news on them..that will sell for sure far more and work up a storm more quickly from lots of blogger fanatics!

Hasta la vista

L Vegas and RR:

I have never had, nor will ever have, a “One size fits all” mindset nor product.

L Vegas:

You must have the ownership clause in effect before that can happen. I believe it can be enacted 2 ways. 15 years in the business or becoming an SVP within 12 months of becoming an RVP. The exact specifics I do not know as of right now. Bottom line, once you activate the ownership clause, your Primerica business truly becomes a business that can be passed on. After that, it can be sold and willed on to another Primerica owner.


I never implied that you were average, however I do not acknowledge that you are any better than average. I have never met you in person (to my knowledge), and wont judge your abilities based on faceless posts on a blog.

Although I will not give out specifics for this clients, an overview I will.

He already has several attorney’s that I am working with and did not need the Pre Paid Legal services. Although they did initially recommend a permanent policy, after recommending my solution, they agreed it was better. Still using the same basic concepts that the more expensive permanent/cash value policies use, just removing the upper bounds imposed by them for a lower cost.

Insurance is still only a “replacement of something lost” concept and should remain that way. The fact that agents, such as yourself, still encourage the use of it for estate planning purposes tells me you do not have better products available. Wait, wasn’t I suppose to be the inferior agent?

Bottom line, I use my products for what they were meant to be used for. Life insurance for replacement of income, PPL for wills and planning, investments for retirement and “passing of wealth,” and long term care for preservation of wealth and lifestyle.

Mark C:

Although AIG has much more bad press of late, Primerica is still the most controversial company in the industry. Besides, AIG Parent is the one in trouble, not AIG Insurance. Citi is in trouble (and may even be pulled off the Dow Jones soon along with GM) while Primerica is fine.


Thanks again for the FYI and I appreciate all the info man!
Keep doing your thing! I hope all the BIg shot pull together and put our company back to their rightfull owners…the men & women of Primerica FInancial Servies Ltd.

Go! Go! Go!

Good luck to you, your family and your TEAM!

P.S Maybe will see each other @ our company gatherings in the near futur..till that day I look forward to meeting you, your family and your teammates! Glad to have you on the front lines!

Cheers & God Bless!

by: Answer This | March 17th, 2009 (8:48 pm)

Mark C. I my opinion doing something on AIG won’t make a difference, because many if not all of the former PFS reps. are independent agents. So if a potential client has reservations with American General, we can just offer another comparable carrier.

As for Primerica being controversial, that may not be the case anymore. It’s just a comparison of opportunities and what services/products can be delivered to the client. People can just compare products and contracts and decide what’s best for them and just compete across the kitchen table. Numbers don’t lie.

We all have the basic goals of helping people save money or build wealth, give people a systematic plan to get out of debt. Have Term Life to protect the client. Free up as much money where available to build wealth, cut the cost of their mortgage, etc. One is a captive platform and the other is an independent platform.

If you truly believe you are offering your clients the best product you can provide for their need then more power to you. For the independents, we strive to provide the best product available by having access to many different carriers to fit the need of the client.

There’s no controversy, it’s just about choice. There’s one constant with the debates with the current and former PFS agents. The independents know both sides from a working both sides in the field. Captive and independent. The current PFS agents only know the PFS side which is being captive. I have yet to hear of anyone who has left PFS went independent and went back to being captive with PFS. It may have happened, but I just haven’t heard of it.

In my humble opinion from what I see that’s happening if PFS doesn’t make some changes, they are done regardless of what Citi and PFS decide to do. The products that are coming available in the market place are just evolving too much and with the economy as it is many people are entering the financial services industry and PFS is training getting many people licensed. A problem that they will have to fix per contract is once they get people licensed and the agents find out the opportunities available as an independent agent especially what’s going on with the investments side many will leave.

Active money management is coming to main street. Do some research on inverse investing. Ask yourself this. Who manages your clients money? Who manages your money? Markets are changing constantly so who can make adjustments and when? Who manages your money? Bear or Bull some do make money in both markets. “Good Luck to you, your family and your TEAM..”

We will see you across the kitchen table and let the client win.

I reviewed the above links Mark C. posted on 03/17/2009 and I found a link that came out Feburary 2009.

I am not here to say anyone is bad, I just wanted to post an article that someone sent me. Many so called financial advisors are saying only BTID and that is true for most of the time, but it has to make sense. It is not in everyones best interests all of the time. The links to the video that Mark C. provided made it clear that it should be BTID all of the time. That makes it a one size fits all. The first video he states that he could recommend term life insurance because the rest of it is garbage and it is a rip off.

Answer This stated it beautifully. “Insurance is not a one size fits all. There are many different reasons to have insurance and that’s why there are different types of insurance products.”

RRodriguez explained it well in a few words, ” Any person who claims to know anything about insurance yet operates with already dictated terms is not objective. For instance let’s say that a certain company thinks that buy term and invest the difference is the way to go. You must realize that a client will never get customized solutions there because the idea that a 30 year old should have the same program as a 68 year old is wrong. They don’t understand that there are things that may affect some clients like estate taxes in which life insurance is very important and term may not be the best tool then. Did you know that around ages 68 and up some permanent plans may actually be same price as some expensive term policies? So what advantages if any would there be to issue a permanent plan over term at those ages assuming that the premium is similar, close or the same?

Thank you Mark C. for posting those videos.

What are the people in Mark C. videos trying to accomplish? Educate people to only one way of thinking, selling their books and programs, or both? The perfect situation or perfect senerio almost never happens. That is like when the engineers evaluate a new air conditioning unit from the assembly line, it is done in a clean room conditioned at 70 degrees, it is not a real field like condition or situation it is in a labatory. The theroy sounds good on paper and when you actually are in the field it is totally different. People are people and stuff happens to them and thier families. The first video stated that he was in great shape did not smoke and was age 47 and gets a great rate on his term insurance because SWI (Sharon wants it). How many 47 year olds do you know that are in great shape? Remember this is America, king of fast foods. BTID is not the only solution 100% of the time. You must be flexible and have flexible products to meet your clients needs and goals not yours. You are supposed to be working for them. Not everyone is going to have their house paid off when they are in their 50’s, not everyone began investing when they were in their 20’s. This is not a perfect world so the one size fits all does not work as suggested in BTID 100% that the videos Mark C provided.

Hey L Vegas,

Your entitled to your opinion and I wont argue with that. Although I know that its not for everyone but what market do you carter to will dictate what u will generally offer to your clients..Primerica’s market is the middle class working family although we help the rich and sum of the poor our marget is the middle class so that is why we market BTID. Just like Wallmart & Mcdonalds we want to expand quickly just like Mcdees and help the majority who needs it the most just like Wallmart! The rest ,well if the industry wants to fight for the leftovers then go ahead it more likely you will be able to help them as you said..since that is your target market!

I posted those links so that our fellow bloggers may see the injustice that so many agents or advisors are really doing in the marketplace. Thats is all because as Primericans we come across usually always WL & UL all the time..rarely do I see TermL insurances that are in place…THAT’s the reality! Whether you like or not after peeling all the layers that you other independent agent are the truth..that is out there!

If you have better term plans that primerica why is it that the industry still sells WL / UL/ VL huh? Why did primerica come to existence if you did your jobs so well huh?! Anyways, if the clients has a plan that is good and right for them..why should I replace it! Bottom line clients priority first before personal gain alright…that way you keep your clientele longer and dont find out later from a Primerica the difference they we’re not told …so that you can help and keep them long term as your clients and possible get compensated more by doing so..Im I right!!!

All Im saying from the very beginning if all those people who are already in there 60s, 70s & 80s back when they where younger if they where giving a proprer financial game plan and BTID they would not have the need of getting those expensive WL-UL-VL policies that the industry sold and still selling to younger families to get them on the fish in a pond and repeat their parents mistakes..well its not really their fault its their advisors mistake because their the professionals who should know better and advise all their clients accordingly!

L vegas please stop trying to discredit suze or dave since at least they have the guts to and the respect by others and well know infuential people to be put on the news or as guest speakers on talk shows and have their own money show, unlike that someone who cant even use his real name let alone leave any kind if contact info on them and say that they are not credible source. Listen man if you heard the example on those links you should see what the industry is really doing to their clients and thats what I wanted you all to see. Why dont you go out there and make a difference just like suze or dave then maybe your words will carry more weight. So Thank you Mr. L vegas!

Oh Answer this good luck to you and your family too! May you always do the right thing to all you clients and keep up the good work! God Bless!


Mark C. you wrote “If you have better term plans that primerica why is it that the industry still sells WL / UL/ VL huh?” Please do not get me wrong, I believe in BTID but only when it makes sense. I have replaced Primerica’s term polices because I have a better products and better prices. What I mean exactly to back up this is run a quote from I am not affiiliated with this website, but I use it to compare with other companies to check prices when I am trying to explain to this to other agents. Here are the number that I came up with and you can verify by using the same information by using the inputs that I put in to run the quotes.

First quote, in the zipcode 92121 a male with a birthday of 06/14/1967 in the health status of preferred plus with a 20 year guaranteed 250K policy with a minimum life rating of A-. Where does Primerica rank? There are at least 50 companies ahead of Primerica. Primerica does not show up on that page.

Second quote, in the zipcode 92121 a male with a birthday of 06/14/1967 in the health status of regular (average) wanting a 20 year guaranteed 250K policy with a minimum life rating of A-. Where does Primerica rank? Primerica ranks in the 40th position. Primericas monthly premium is $53.20.

Third quote, in the zipcode 92121 a female with a birthday of 06/14/1967 in the health status of regular (average) wanting a 20 year guaranteed 250K policy with a minimum life rating of A-. Where does Primerica rank? They do not show up on the page. When I ran this quote The 1st place company had a premium of $30.84 and the 50th company had a premium of $44.59. I hope i am right on this one, is Primerica a carrier that has unisex ratings. Would the monthly premium be $53.20 the same as the male? This does not seem right since females live longer than males should’nt their polices be cheaper? This is why I can replace Primerica’s policies.

I do not go into a clients home and tell them anything bad about Primerica, I simply review their policy have and explain what my policy offers such as how the TIR or ADB works, show them the obility to convert the policy if need in the latter years of thier life and explain the guaranteed death benefit and guaranteed premium. If I can offer them a better product at a more economical price or offer them more death benefit at the same pricethat they are now paying I let them decide. The second quote example one of my carrier has a monthly premium of $41.56 for 250K. What I may suggest to the client is that we verify that he has the correct amount of coverage for his family and he can keep his death denefit the way it is and have a lower premium or increase his death benefit to 300K and pay $48.83 and still be lower than Primerica’s monthly premium or pay a little more than Primerica’s monthly premium of $53.20 for 250K in DB by paying $56.09 and his family receiving 350K in DB. That would be $2.89 for 100K more of protection. This is why I am independent because I do not have to worry about being linked to just one company. I can gather data from my client and review options that he has and give them a choice of plans, prices, and options according to their needs and goal.

Since they are already responsible people by protecting their families I let them decide which is the better policy for them.

If a person has VL and they are 100% sold on keeping it, then my offer to them is that they give me a chance to see if I can get them one of my VL policies from one of carrier whom I represent at a better price for them. If I can not then I let them know that and I leave. I do not need to force feed them anything they do not want. We should all be responsible adults and if I have explained to Mr. Client why they should go with a different product and they are convinced not to go with my recommendation then I have done my job.

Eric C. wrote “L vegas please stop trying to discredit suze or dave since at least they have the guts to and the respect by others and well know infuential people to be put on the news or as guest speakers on talk shows and have their own money show, unlike that someone who cant even use his real name let alone leave any kind if contact info on them and say that they are not credible source.” Respectfully are you going to purchase insurace from me, no why do you want my contact info. I am not bashing your company I am stating facts and I giving you my professional opinions. Ok if you post your contact information I will give you mine simple. I googled Eric C. and came up with 65,900,000 results which one are you hidding under. That’s just silly to bring up this point. It has nothing to do regarding the topic.

As far as this link please check who the authur is it is not me and just as you have the right to post your links then I should have the right to play devil’s advocate.

Last link here is a link from a new brodcast that explained about a Primerica office getting raided. This happened about a year or so ago. You may have to get the real player installed to play the video on your PC if you already do not have it.

Hey L vegas,

Like I said I wont get into a heated debated with you. That’s your opinion and your recommendation..I respect that so long as you do in the end always the right thing for your clients!

Does the term you offer have any Terminal Illnes Accelerated benefits..and how about Disability waiver of Premium….how about a child rider of one price for up to 3 children or more of coverage each and able to renew their child rider and get up to 5 times their child rider benefits without proof of health or medical eligibility… how about a term family plan to bundle the whole family with 1 policy fee and one plan to save more money…how about a longer term like a 30 or 35 year that they dont have to renew every 20 years..and give them more time of coverae in case their assets havent grown enough yet to for them to become self-insured and have no longer need for big coverages or insurance at all!

I know you can find cheaper term plans out there but they are mostly tied up with sum accidental death and dismemberment or expensive critical Illness..which is another whay for agents to make more sales and thus more commisions while still offering them a cheap basic term plan for 20 years..but not with the same benefits as a Primerica Term plan…so you can’t really compare apples to oranges my friend you have to see what Primerica term can offer vs. other term plans out their!

Furthermore, we have a BBB rating of A+ since 1980..I would say that is pretty impressive dont you think…I know lots of independent free lancers agents would love to get their hands on some of amazing products..but Primerica puts a fence around them so that we dont get sold out life the rest of the industry..that is why I think the industry doesnt like it..then again dont take my word for it. Oh there is no Eric C. and I dont need to put my full name out here couz I am not obliged..I think First name basis is good enough to start! Is L vegas your real name?? My advice..dont waste all your money in casinos! You’ll ba a whole lot richer by keeping you money! J/K! :p

Neways man aslong as you do what is right for your clients and feel good about it and have no regrets when you go home at sleep night in bed then good for you!

Catcha @ the kitchen tables!

Good luck to you and your family!


by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2009 (1:46 am)

Just to be fair Primerica offices are independently owned. As for the riders mentioned above many other carriers have those riders. Something to consider is currently the divorce rate is hovering about 50% (rule of thumb) When a plan is bundled at some point it may have to be unbundled, be it death or divorce. Next we look at the one policy fee. Unisex rate, verse individual rates. If one is an impaired risk it can make difference. As for company Best ratings well today that’s taken with a grain of salt.

As for the length of term. Using BTID concept and the theory of decreasing responsibility there shouldn’t be a need for life insurance beyond the term period. Isn’t that why an FNA is done? If there is a need I would think it would be a much lower face amount due the accumulated savings.

Now here’s my two cents on posting names. Primerica does monitor message boards. I have “heard” that they have had some shut down even some by PFS agents. There are some agents who take what is posted very personal if it’s fact or fiction and have tried to have licenses taken away. In the old days (about 3-5 years ago) the debates on the Ken Young and Misled By PFS boards got intense to the point personal information was being posted and the courts became involved. Not to mention calls to PFS directly.

This debate is very tame. Many of us who are former PFS agents just want people to know things we were never told and had to find out the hard way. Every company will say they are the best. Every company is looking out for themselves first. it’s business.

For the people who read these blogs they should just take any information given at face value and do some research. If someone wants to use the Primerica platform more power to them, but after all the information is given they can not say they didn’t know about other options or how the products compete in the open market.

One day we all are going to leave the industry by death, retirement or just quit. In many cases the companies will still be going and some clients will still be paying premiums. Yet it’s said term will go to claim 1-2% of policies sold. I don’t know if people noticed but companies offering Return Of Premium are raising rates. Fixed/Indexed Annuity products are in high demand but companies are cutting off agent appointments. this back and forth can get emotional, but there’s still the business side. There’s a reason PFS has the commission structure they have. There’s a reason their agent agreement reads as it does. There’s a reason they limit the products they offer. There’s a reason the meetings are like a southern revival. It’s business..Think about. Take the emotions out and think about it. We all basically use the same concepts. It’s just some of us use different tools and some use one.

AIG is in the news and if a client doesn’t want to use American General products some of us can just use another carrier. Citi is in he news and if a potential client has reservations about Primeica there’s no other option. From a business stand point having a choice of carriers is in my opinion a major advantage be servicing the client or earning income. As Mark C says what works for him may not work for me. All things are not for all people.

Hey Answer this you already madde your statement and reservations about Primerica….are you trying to get the final word..anyways that’s just the blogs works.. a never ending vicious cycle of comments and statements and a really endless debates. So lets just end it by do what you do and we do what we do ..we will see who will come out last in the end!

Geez give it a rest already folks find other past times and live your lives!

Mark C. with respect I meant Mark C. not Eric C. that was my mistake.

Your riders in your policies are similiar to mine TIR Terminal Illness Rider or Accelerated Death Benefit is included at no charge, child rider pay for one child and the rest of the children are included at no additional charge, etc.

I really must say that everyone is really civil and professional with this debate. It does not matter which company you work for as long as you do the right thing and believe it in your heart that you are doing the right thing. I heard this saying from my mentor

” When a man who is honestly mistaken learns the truth… He will either cease being mistaken, OR cease telling the truth.”

This is the gut check we all must ask ourselfs.

You are correct about about Primerica offices are independently owned. There are honest owners and agents and dishonest owners and agents in all different types of companies. I am not picking on Primerica. Just like your automotive repair shop. There are honest places and dishonest places selling you the not needed add ons and extra over priced parts that you do not need. We as agents need to do the correct thing all of the time.

I have chosen to be an independent professional agent. If you are happy with where you are and you are happy that you are do it for the right reason, then carry on. If you are truthful to your self I can ask no more.

Thank you for the advice Mark C. I actually avoid “the strip” , I run from the one arm bandits, and the only card trick I know is 52 pickup.

I will now rest my keyboard and wish everyone good luck in their business adventures.

by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2009 (3:44 am)

Mark C. You made some points that people who may not be in the know could consider as accurate. As L.V. pointed out also many other companies offer those riders and different levels of TIB payouts. i’m not picking on Primerica either. When I was an agent with them I found out there were many things I just didn’t know. As always you do you, but there are many other people who may come to this site for information. To imply that those riders are Primerica specific just is not true. As for bundling a policy it all sounds good but most agents never question what happens when it has to be unbundled. I didn’t. Life events do happen. We can’t tell the future, but we should consider it.

L.V. don’t go…. As for the last word, that’s not my goal. My goal is just supply information and let people make their own decision. Primerica or any company should stand on their own merits. Facts are facts. I’m sure you noticed I have not tried to recruit anyone. Not you nor Richard or anyone else who may have posted here. At one time ALW/PFS was on the attack and now they are on the defense. What has changed? Hmmmm… The industry has changed and it’s still changing. Anyway FTB needs people to visit his site. If people don’t post people won’t come. I’m doing this for FTB..That’s my story and i’m sticking to it. LOL..

I appreciate your support and your comments guys 😉 keep debating ! hahaha!

seriously, I think that both sides (pro Primerica and against Primerica) have the chance to express their point of view.

TFB is probably one of the best source of information about Primerica since we have pro’s and con’s and it will be up to everybody to decide whether they want to join or not.

thx to everybody!

by: Asnwer This | April 2nd, 2009 (12:17 pm)

Please excuse my error. I stand corrected. TFB..

by: Computerman | April 8th, 2009 (10:50 pm)

Okay Financial Blogger, you get a lot of traction out of this. Very interesting that you have not had a debate about any other insurance or investment company.

That is because people are jealous of Primerica and have a need to put it down since a lot of the business we do is to REPLACE policies which Suze Orman, Bob Brinker and many others say is the BEST INSURANCE! … TERM LIIFE.

Thati is all we sell.

AM Best gives us an A+ rating over and over again.

Primerica helps a lot of people.

The other companies are losing business and want to diss Primerica because of jealousy.

Why don’t you discuss the high fees of Investors Group or the suits against London Life agents for promising what they didn’t deliver?

Why don’t you quote what third parties say about Life Insurance?

If you did, you would realize that Primerica is the ONLY company that puts their money where there mouth is and ONLY SELLS TERM.

I could go on at length about why Universal Life is often in trouble like when in bad economic times, there is not enough money in the fund to pay the premiums so if you don’t pay higher premiums, you lose your insurance.

Most people criticizing Primerica here are failures at their Primerica business. So now they want to blame Primerica. Primerica is growing. Others are not.

You want part time? What other insurance company does that?

Maybe there are some but do they sell ONLY Term insurance?

Remember anyone including you Financial Blogger can put anything they want on the internet. I have many blogs and sites.

Just because it is on the net, does not make it true! I see you have many misconceptions. I also see that you really could care less as long as it gets more people to your site, do you?

Yes Primerica is hyped the way anything is hyped. What on earth is sales all about? Hype! Most of the over-the-counter drugs are hyped every day on TV.

Most making money at home schemes are hyped! What is advertising? HYPE!

Sports are hyped! What do you think TV is? ONE BIG HYPE! They only put the programs on FOR ONE REASON! TO GET YOU TO BUY SPONSOR’S PRODUCTS.

I can see why some of the people criticizing Primerica are here.

THEY ARE NOT OUT DOING BUSINESS! Not yelling just emphasizing.

If any one of them came to me with such faulty unfounded logic and tried to sell me ONE of their products, I would be crazy to listen because they don’t get to the point.

The only people I see making sense are the ones who are Primerica agents who are trying to explain what we do.

I am a senior part-timer. I do not have time to spend a lot of time on the business. But I have not found ANY BUSINESS which gives you the option to help people, 80% of whom have the wrong kind of insurance because they were sold it.

They have less coverage than they need because they can’t afford the higher premiums of the cash value insurances. When a Primerica agent comes to talk to them and sells them term, they are being done a favour or a favor [depending on your country (:-)]

So argue with the Bob Brinkers, David Ramsays, Suze Ormans and the others financial authors who have NO relationship to Primerica. They ALL AGREE. Buy Term! That’s what we do!

Cars are hyped, Food is hyped. Obama was hyped!

Hopefully an adult can check out both sides of an issue and discover truth but it is buried very deeply on this blog!

Why don’t you ask a Primerica rep or rep from headquarters to write an article explaining what and why Primerica does what it does? Then have some other company explain why they do what they do?

Then go to the third party materials and experts and guess what?

They all support the BUY TERM idea. That is what Primerica does.

Hey again fellow debaters!!!Here we go one last time!
Hopefully… :p

Mr. Answer this, the reason divorce rates are so high is due to the major underlying core cause…its due to stress..coming from money problems my friend…thats is what Primerians do..we solve peoples financial problems by educating them how money works and helping them with our financial concepts and them a game plan to get them on track for their Financial Independence and give them an opportunity to make sum extra income parti-time or full-time by totaly changing and taking control of their lives! Thus the need for Primerica folks!

Mr L Vegas, I can see you have a good sense of humor thats a good quality specially in this cant be soo serious all the time..or else this business will really stress you out! Oh and we we’re never on the attack..we we’re just meeting you head on to match point to point againts your arguments in the beginning and now we jst grow tired of this never ending discussion! Well this is what I mean..not everybody have the same perspective and outlook @ life! God bless you and your family and lots of luck in your work!

Mr. Answer this once again buddy I know what you are saying but go out their how many Primerica Terms vs Universal or Whole life or Variable life are out there…you should have figured it out by now if you are out their every single day life I am! Rarely do I see term being sold..even though their not from Primerica…and thats the end of that! Good luck and go back out their and you will see the real truth! Go for vacation or something and clear your vision so that you can have a better view!

Mr. TFB, well thanks for re-enforcing my belief and strentening my resolve about what whe Primericans do out there by making a REAL difference in peoples lives! Good luck to you to and please make a new topic this one getting redundant!

Finanly, Mr. Computerman, all I have to say is AMEN to that!


by: The Financial Blogger | April 9th, 2009 (4:41 am)


I understand your point on Term insurance life (this is what I have personally). But can you tell me where in my post I am saying that it is bad? The point of this whole series was to describe the business side of it. I’m glad that Primerica is selling term insurance, but they are not the only one. Through my previous job, I have met with several life insurance agent from different company (in Canada) and they were all selling term life as well. So even though I believe it is right to sell Term most of the time, it doesn’t make it of an advantage for any company (products are still very similar from one company to another).

as you can see, this series was written back in 2007… it’s not my fault if people keep writing about it 😉 my latest post on Primerica was the April’s fool, nothing to debate about.. I would write a similar post about another company but I though I had a much better chance to keep you reading and believe that is true for a few seconds because of the back of this blog.

I’m actually not for or against Primerica, I just believe that it is a specific business system where some people may be happy in it while some others might be very frustrated. I started this series because there was a huge difference between what I have been sold and the answer (from Primerica agents) I got back when I started asking question. I do not pretend that I hold the truth, I’m just giving my opinion (and perception) about this topic. This is what a blog is all about, right?

good luck with your business !


by: Answer This | April 9th, 2009 (5:56 am)

You guys still go back to cash value. Many of us sell mostly term. Maybe not 100% but when it’s needed or the client wants a perm product we have access to it. If your mindset is term only and a client wants a perm. product whose best interest are you considering? You see when you expound term only it’s about sales pure and simple.

As for computerman you do you, but you don’t know what you don’t know. Many of us who post have been inside Primerica and outside Primerica. You base your opinion on one side of the “debate” and one company. You still think everyone is selling cash value. Yes the market is huge for term and sure get yours, but there’s also the business side to consider. I can understand being loyal to the concept of BTID and helping people get out of debt, but why be so loyal to a company? The company isn’t loyal to you. Read the contract.

Computerman says..”That is because people are jealous of Primerica and have a need to put it down since a lot of the business we do is to REPLACE policies which Suze Orman, Bob Brinker and many others say is the BEST INSURANCE! … TERM LIIFE.

I never heard of Mr. Brinker but many of the others say shop carriers. that’s what we do as independents. Do you see any of them saying go to Primerica? Why. If you respect what they say so much about Term why don’t you suggest your clients shop carriers and policies? It’s because you only have one program to SELL.

Do you really think all of the PFS agents just own PFS Term? Some people may like the business side, but they know the difference between what’s good for the business side and what’s good for their own family.

No one is jealous of Primerica. Have you ever wondered why RVP’s or long term PFS people don’t or rarely post on some of the message boards? It’s because when they have they have been brought to task by facts. Not hype. The commissions are what they are. The agent agreement is what it is. etc. PFS has x amount of clients. PFS has been preaching BTID for years. The market has changed. Where are all the financially independent people that PFS has helped? With the economy as it is I would think now would be a great time to show the benefit of BTID and how many people PFS has helped.

As always. Hey Kool-Aid,,Hey Kool-Aid… You are independent contractors who some stake their financial future on a company that is on the block to be sold and many have no idea how that can effect their business because every time you hire someone or bring a client to PFS you are under the nonompete (If enforced in your state).

What happens to your block of business if PFS is sold? Yes your in business for yourself. Yes your bringing in business. Yes your hiring and training agents. Yes you are kept current on the pending sale. Yea right. But you sell Term 100% of the time. Keep drinking the kool-aid and at some point you will see there’s a business side.

From a business stand point ask yourself this. If you left PFS tomorrow what could you take with you? Granted you could still sell Term with other carriers (with no requirement to sell cash value) and offer investments, but from a business stand point of getting clients, recruiting and training, what could you take with you. You spent a lot of time and energy building with/for PFS. Now consider you. Yes it’s a business. Read your contract.

If you can live with it? More power to you.

by: Jose Soberanes | April 9th, 2009 (12:07 pm)

Jealous of Priamerica, please!!!!

You stay with your 30-40% commissions on 1 company’s products and I will stay with my 10-15 companies that pay me 80-110% commissions on term, plus if a client needs or wants a permanent policy I have that option too. Like stated before, read you contract!!!!

Answer This great response.

I guess another way to look at this is to pretend for a second that you had no Agent insight with any company. You are really looking at this with fresh eyes and a pure 100% business oportunity to invest in. If you were presented with the clauses that PFS offers without the Alpha Male spin why PFS was better opportunity to invest into and to be fair without the Alpha Male spin why independents are better who would you really choose? BE HONESTat least to your self. I am not looking for angry Primericans on the war path defending their territory, I am looking for someone PFS agent or not logically looking at this as a truly business venture.

Would you invest into this business knowing the following statements?
1. Richard stated that selling your Primerica business you must have the ownership clause in effect before that can happen I believe it can be enacted 2 ways. 15 years in the business or becoming an SVP within 12 months of becoming an RVP. Plus it can only be sold to another Primerica business owner.
2. The non-compete clauses
3. Only one product as far as term insurance goes.
4.What happens if you seperate from Primerica for what ever reason. They sell, you quit or read the IBA you can be let go by either party for whatever reason. What about your clients?
5. Marketing material a lot of companys sent it to you for free.
6. Commission levels.
7. Giving up appointments to trainers.
8.Pressure of recruitment to promote. Yes I understand the importance of building your base shop. Their are companies that will promote you on personal production if you want to be only a personal producer as an independant agent. As you see I am not trying recruit anyone because I have not mentioned any company names just do an internet search you will find them like I did.

Again I will repeat the question without hype. What would be the best business decision for you as a business owner? If you can not be honest in this blog because of losing face you have to deal with that but I am not here to judge anyone only present my truthful opinion. In your heart be honest to your self.

If you have 100% happy with you Primerica business decision I will not tear you downin fact I will give you KUDO’s. Just keep doing the right thing.

I am not jealous of Primerica because if I was, I can join right? I am open to a better system I just know that I have not found one. My system is not 100% perfect but it is the best one that I found and it works for me. Now I must get back to my 52 pick up.

Good Luck guys

Re: no 1, I did some double checking. I was off. it takes much less effort and just you and one RVP below hitting a money mark.

But taking what you said in comparison.

1. Understand the ownership clause is important. Limiting point of sale is a neg (-1)
2. Non-compete clause. (-1)
3. If the product is customizable, one is fine. (0) – Neutral because it depends on the product
4. I manage my clients, but they were always clients of the companies their products are from. (0) – Face facts, they are clients to the company and you are just paid to take care of them.
5. Nothing is free. Hiding the costs vs making me accountable (and giving a write off). (+1)
6. Commissions. It’s more important to know the full structure including bonuses and not just upfront commissions. (0) – I’ve seen other companies with higher commissions, but the bonuses suck (HBW Comes to mind….In independent agent type firm).
7. With the right trainer, you never give up an appointment. (+1)
8. I’ll use a line from the cash value agents “Forced Building For Your Benefit.” (instead of savings). (+1)

Hmm, Primerica still comes out better.

by: Answer This | April 11th, 2009 (4:11 pm)

LOL..HBW Suck.. The compensation is on the web site. Is PFS compensation on their web site? Did you consider series 6,63,65 and Fixed Products/Business? LOL…Forget all that. Just consider the Noncompete and who owns clients? LOL.. Back at cash value again…

HBW isn’t the end all, but to try and compare with what PFS has to offer? Please. Freedom verse captivity? Richard please don’t bring in HBW into this. You will have people doing research and that’s not in the best interest of PFS. Agents may not go to HBW, but they may go to other companies.

Consider this. Even if the bonuses at HBW were less and the agents make more can you say rule of 72? Try this. Go to the web site and view the testimonial.. Now for the person who is just looking to make some part-time income would it be in their best interest to go with a firm where they can make more with production or less?

What gets me is on one point you guys say it’s the mission and not the commissions. Yet now you say bonuses are a consideration? As for client ownership as an independent if my clients has a need for disability or even a med sup I can go out and contract with another IMO or a carrier directly and provide the product. The client is happy. I’m happy and my IMO is happy. What do you do if your client ask about med sups or has a family member who is considered impaired or will be highly table rated? I for got PFS agents are captive. yet they came intot the business to earn extra income. Yet PFS says NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. Agents are independent contractors, in most cases part-time while keeping their full-time employment joining PFS to make extra income.

Something just doesn’t look right. Let me put on my Kool-Aid Googles. Nope I still don’t see it. Comparing being captive and independent…LOL..

1. Primerica;

2. HBW:

Let people do their own comparison as individuals. There’s no need for any input on the HBW site. People can see everything for them self. Now what about the PFS site? What products do they offer. What is the compensation structure? Where can we see the agent agreement? Why don’t they post that information? HBW does. Yes you can even go to pipeline run some quotes and see the different carriers. Do you want to see the debt reduction program? Click on Events and spy on the webnar..

Shhhhhh get this. If an independent agent didn’t want to do business with one of the carriers they have the ability to go elsewhere. There are no requirements to use any carrier. So get this. If a CPA. Financial Planner, Attorney or whomever just wanted to offer let’s say Fixed/Indexed Annuities or Long Term Care to their clients they can contract with HBW just for that.

OK, PFS agents, we don’t know your names or who you are. Side by side. Apples to Apples. Take the emotion out of the equation. Knowing what you know now and having the ability to do some research. If you had to choose 1 or 2? Which would you choose?

Disclaimer: No one company is for all people.

Answer This, I looked at is as pure business, not as a Primerica agent. As requested.

When looking from a business stand point, it is important to know everything. When it comes to getting paid, that includes bonuses.

I have looked into HBW, up front, they pay better commissions on PERSONAL PRODUCTION.

If i consider just the non-compete and who owns the clients, it’s a negative. Then again, as I said before, THE COMPANY OWNS THE CLIENT REGARDLESS OF IF YOU ARE INDEPENDENT OR CAPTIVE. YOU ARE PAID TO MAINTAIN THEM. Salesmen don’t understand that. :)

I’ve done my research 10 times over. For me, and in my opinion, Primerica is the best option LONG TERM. No emotion involved.

Wrong Richard,


If you are a captive agent the company owns the client, if you are indepenent the agent owns the client. The client goes with me regardless with who I am appointed with and regardless of who I sell insurance too. If you are captive the client ALLWAYS stays with the COMPANY.

Jose, you guys say I’m drinking some nasty Kool-Aid, you may want to check yours. You obviously don’t understand how business works.

As a licensed agent, you represent the INSURANCE COMPANY not the client. Regardless of if you are captive or not. The client is a client of the INSURANCE COMPANY and you are paid to MAINTAIN the relationship. This distinction was made VERY CLEAR on the tests we take here in Texas.

Just because you can move them from one to another does not mean they are yours. Any new company you sign can just as easily add a non-compete clause to their contracts or something similar preventing you from moving the client away from them for a period of time.

Last I checked, this was insurance 101. At least it is here in Texas. Then again, I have heard Texas has a much more stringent requirement than other states/countries.

by: Answer This | April 12th, 2009 (10:27 am)

Richard says “Any new company you sign can just as easily add a non-compete clause to their contracts or something similar preventing you from moving the client away from them for a period of time.”

Just say NO. Take the book of business and your team and leave if they want to follow you. On another note, that’s why it’s important to read contracts. If a company inserts an option they do it for a reason. That’s why it should be a consideration that they expect to use the option. Such as having the option to raise rates. Sure you are representing the insurance company you write with, but you also have a responsibility to do the best job possible for the client.

As for not understanding how business works, we understand give and take.Give a way in for $99.00, but what do you give up? An agent under RVP sells a LTC policy and doesn’t earn renewals. ( Rule of 72) An agent can sell a PLPP program and doesn’t earn renewals. (Rule of 72) Why doesn’t PFS offer the PPL Identity Theft Plan? (Rule of 72) PFS doesn’t allow agents to market other products outside of PFS. (Rule of 72).. How much are people giving up by paying $99.00 and being captive?

Ok consider this. Above I mentioned the PPLP Legal protection plan. Has anyone one of the PFS agents considered the PPL compensation. Get this after 12 months PPL reps. have ownership. They earn renewals. Now consider the potential income lost by offering legal plans through PFS. Remember this is looked at from a business stand point. No emotion involved. PPL plans don’t require underwriting. No licensing required in most states and Canada to offer the Legal plans and there’s no licensing requirement to offer Identity Theft Plans nationwide and Canada.

You see outside of PFS you can build two businesses. If a PFS agent sells a client a PLPP but not an insurance policy. Now if the agent leaves they still can’t go back and sell that same former client a life policy. Why, because PFS still owns that client.

Now how is it better to be captive? Especially if the agent is part-time? When captive the company limits your business, being independent your business is only limited by your desires.

I really do not like the word “OWNS” I do not believe the company “OWNS” the client or the agent “OWNS” the client, I believe that the client “OWNS” the company. The owner of a policy has the control of policy in regards to whether they want to continue or discontinue the policy. They can fire the company and the agent at any time. If they find something better then they can pick up their marbles and play somewhere else. I as an independent can speak to my client at anytime.

It is a legal unilateral contract. The owner of the policy makes no promise to continue premium payments and if the premiums are paid in a timely manner, the company is bound to accept them and meet its obligations under the contract. So who owns who? The client “OWNS” the company.

Enough said. If you seperate from any company for what ever reason, do you have the right to inform your client that you have moved, found a better product for them or are you restricted because you had signed a non-compete contract? If you are captive then you have no rights and you are obligated by the contract that you had signed for a specific amount of time to make contact with the client or your downline or other people that you worked with from that company. I really do not understand putting your eggs all in one basket and then handing them away. MY clients are my clients that I have worked hard to make them my clients and I have gained their trust. They are my clients and my contacts. I want them to have the freedom to choose whatever policy or options they want and I want the freedom to be able to speak to them whenever I want to. If they wish to fire me it is their option and I do not want to be held by any non-compete clause if I decide to seperate from any company. If a company wishes to try and sneak a non-compete clause I have the freedom to go somewhere else.

I have a pretty good understanding of PFS commission structure, can someone explain to me what the bonuses are?
What about the cap 1500.00 cap on comissions? (+)or(-)

Does PFS still require you to “give up one of the legs or downlines” in order to promote at one level or at some level? If this is true does this sound like good business? Would that be a (+) or (-).

Since the part-time option is brought up, can you stay part-time at any level at PFS? (+) or (-). Do they require you to be full-time at some level? It’s your business and you are an independent contractor then you should have the right to work when you want to.

What about rollbacks? Is there rollbacks with PFS? (+) or (-)

Most PFS agents that I communicate to explain to me that giving up the contacts from the warm market is the price of doing business and the cost of training. The trainee signs up with the Primerica for $99.00 and does not have his license. So he cannot sell legally. But gives his trainer leads and witnesses the sale at the kitchen table and here is what goes down. E T H O R for a Training Visit

I’m really excited about my new career with Primerica Financial Services!

I’m going through training right now, and . . .

I need your help in order to get my certification.

I have to observe 10 presentations in order to get certified.

I’d like to visit with you to show you and (spouse) what I’ll be doing and you can become a referral source for me.
Is ETHOR a (+) or (-)? For whom?The new person or the trainer?

Since you are an independent contract why could you not get your license first then you are licensed and if you want to split the commission so you get paid and your trainer gets paid?
I have also been told “I give up $1500, but get 30 sales from them. That means I get 7500 from it. (This is based on your statement of 25%, to be conservative.) And each of these sales they get 5 more referrals. That means they now have 150 warm leads.” This also means that you are feeding off your new guys. I would think that you would want to help the new people to stay motivated instead of feeding off them. You need to be a go-giver not always a go getter. Because in the long run they will make you money. Right? I guess Richard is the exception with the right trainer but really is there people like that or do they follow the New Agent Traning Fast Start Manuals. IN the last few years I have been contacted and they have tried to recruit me and when I ask them about the not receiving commisiions from my first warm market sales it is because it is the costs of training and because I have no license. They wanted me to be fully ready before I am licensed. Since I would have given my $99.00 to start would it we easier to get license, get trained, and split the commission and when I was ready to go on my own make the break and just do it?

RE: PPL’s Identity Theft Option. It can be added onto a PLPP account. It just has to go through a PPL’s agent. Of which, I do have one I refer clients to when they desire it. Same goes for medical insurance. I get nothing out of either of these arrangements except satisfaction of knowing my clients get taken care of.

Answer This, you throw around the Rule of 72 like it is apart of products, it is not. Rule of 72 simple applies to estimates on growth of money based on interest rates. NOT on products or sales of said product.

Regardless of being captive or not, only YOU can limit your desires. Saying a company can means you still have a job mentality. If the desire is there, anything is possible.

L Vegas, as I said before, there is no cap on commissions. I may not get it all up front, but I will receive my full commission on each sale.
Giving up a leg is the RVPs decision. The company has a guideline.
You have the right to work when and how you want to, When transitioning to RVP, it is expected that you have enough income coming it so you become “full time.” If you are unable to generate a “full time” income as an RVP, you don’t deserve the promotion.

Depends on your definition of rollbacks. If you mean demotions, you have to do something really stupid to have that happen. Although some RVPs will use that as punishment, it is not a recommended act.

My recruits only give up their warm market contacts if they quit and ONLY if they handed them over to begin with. Once my recruits are licensed, even is still in training, they sign and receive FULL commission. No split sale. As for not being paid until licensed, each trainer handles that differently. Some do pay training time, others do not.

As for easier, no telling. That $99 goes towards background checks, a pre-licensing class (about $400 here in TX), the $100 for the test gets refunded upon passing, the $800 for the securities can be paid for BY THE COMPANY within as little as 2 months. 1 month if you push it. That’s a decent amount of cash outlay by the company for you spending $99. P&C license costs get refunded on first closed referral. I believe I also got a refund for my PLPP license.

If you call me the exception, than my whole office is as well.

Bottom line is this. Times have changes since some of you were in PFS, and things are getting better. MUCH better. We can argue this till death and still not come to an understanding. I’m tired of repeating myself over and over and hitting the same subjects which are purely semantic in reality.

TFB, do us all a favor and disable comments on these older posts. They are not adding any value. I believe there is a setting that allows you to disable comments on posts older than x amount of days.

by: Answer Ths | April 13th, 2009 (9:56 am)

Richard. As for my comments about eh rule of 72. You say you refer out the Identity theft business, well consider how much you are potentially giving away if the PPL rep earned $100.00 a month, or whatever. (Rule of 72) Don’t you educate your clients to free up money to invest? Now considering PFS forbids you to earn from that business or whatever business you refer out how much potential savings are you losing because PFS says no? I can understand if you just didn’t want to offer the service, but they forbid it.

From my days at PFS there was no requirement that anyone give up their warm list or take anyone to see friends and family before they are licensed. People just didn’t know it.

TFB please keep the thread going. I think knowing that inside PFS the product availability is much different when considering offering legal products than dealing directly with Pre-paid Legal. PFS teaches bypass the middle man. Well in this instance it seems to earn more from marketing legal products it might be a better option to bypass PFS (middle man) and contract directly with Pre-Paid Legal. Independents can do that and market all the Legal products. Doing it through PFS your limited, which limits your potential earnings. If i’m wrong please let me know.


Still keep on going and going and going…I understand TFB that this is and ANCIENT blog topic from way back then..but you got to change the scenery once in a while..geez folks have you all nothing better to do likfe,…hmmm build your buisness…that’s if you really have business to run..anyway lets ends this endless back and forth debates and give each other all a happy farewell and HALLELUYAH ending! Thanks you all and all the best!

Richard YOU ARE THE STUD!!! I totaly agree with you so lets end this and stay focus on whats important…building our teams and helping evry families and individuals out there who are crying out for our help!!

Bless, Bless y’all!

Answer This, you are right about one thing, the product offered through PFS is different than going through PPL. It has an ADDITIONAL 2 titles of protection OVER AND ABOVE what the top PPL plan offers. For the same price.

by: Answer This | April 13th, 2009 (3:23 pm)

Whew. I am running out so this will be brief. Richard if I correctly remember the PLPP has something about helping with the Soc. sec. and probate? When the plan was implimented with PFS it was done so people could get an Estate Plan done with some “added features. Yet back then I think the plan was $25.00 a month. The thing is if you look at the trial benefit time a similar plan at PPL directly would cost $16.00 a month..Now compare the PPL $25.00 a month plan with the PFS plan. If a person has to use the trial benefit how much is it worth with each company plan? They both offer a Will, Living Will and Durable Power Of Attorney. Hey I could be wrong and the PLPP plan has changed over the years, but I doubt it. On another note. When I was there we were able to sign up groups. Consider someone doing one group a week of say 5 or 10 employees, then compare that with a Life sale. No underwriting involved. No license in most states and in your state of Texas the license is only $30.00. So why can’t you just hire people who wish to market that program? Does PFS still require a person to at least become life licensed in a period of time or they can be terminated?

To see the Pre-Paid Legal plan you can go directly the site. now of course there’s no place to see the Primerica Legal Protection Plan…”Rule of 72″…Now how else can a client use the extra $9.00 a month saved by going directly with PPL?
Now to increase your clients funds to save/invest you can now refer them to your PPL contact for the Legal Plan also.

in order to pay the field force Primerica has to price their products accordingly. I’m not saying it’s good or bad it’s business and they have the right to run their business as they see fit.

Excuse me. I have to go…

Actually, it mirrors the $25 plan with a few minor exceptions. 15 Hours less trail time each year. After 5 years, only 35 hours less accumulated. Offers Probate Benefits and a 5% contingency discount that NONE of the PPL plans offer.

The only negative thus far I have found, is the ID Shield is the only add on currently allowed. The other rides can not be added. That being said, if someone desires them, I do have an agent I can forward them to.

As I have said before, I will gladly, and willingly, give up my commission if I believe it is better for the client.

by: Answer This | April 15th, 2009 (8:16 am)

Please see page 24 at

Probate benefit? If the client has a current Estate Plan done with their provider Law Firm what is the big advantage of the probate benefit and is it worth an extra $9.00 a month?

Something else to consider is as PFS reps. May have a PLPP plan. They need to check if their schedule “C” is covered with the IRS benefit. (See page 8) They may wish to consider adding a small business rider if available to cover the schedule “C’…

Now to get to my “Rule of 72”. Let’s say a person gets to the director level. A $26.00 a month plan ($25.00 Family Plan + $1.00 for the Legal Shield) Will payout $150.00.. Within 24-48 hours with direct direct deposit. (Page 32) selling two plan a month is $300.00..Rule of 72? Add the $9.95 ID Theft Rider and the compensation is $155.47..That’s not bad for a unlicensed product. (In most states)

So PFS will bring people in at $99.00 but in the whole picture what is the potential cost from being captive? From a business stand point outside PFS a person can still do BTID. If they wanted to market Legal plans, They could market all the PPL plans available and earn residuals.

As for the trial times, Take a look at the pre-trial times. Most cases don’t go to trial. So consider $200.00 an hour for Attorney Pre-Trial time. So there is a big difference between when comparing the two $25.00 plans…

Now get this. If you sell a PLPP to a client and 5 years later they want to switch to a Pre-Paid Legal plan they will have to start over again accumulating the Trial and Pre-Trial hours. Now ask yourself why does the $25.00 a month Primerica Legal Protection Plan which is similar to the $16.00 a month Pre-Paid Legal Standard plan cost $9.00 more per month?

In my opinion being captive just has too many restrictions. The more you guys post the more information comes out. Somebody is going to pay. It’s either going to come from the agent or the client of PFS.
$99.00 with the ability to be captive and under a potential noncompete.

by: Answer This | April 15th, 2009 (8:29 am)

One more thing. For verification purposes some of the information was taken from

****Postings are not to recruit PFS agents. They are for information purposes only. You as a business person have the right to run your business as you see fit. You are not an employees of Primerica as I am not an employee of any other financial services organization i’m contracted with. Currently i’m with two and looking at another to Market Funeral Trust.. One I actively recruit and team build in and the others are just for personal production for niche markets. Independence allows options.

Depending on the cost of setting up the Estate plan, it would take about 15 to 30+ years to recoup the $9/mo for the UNLIMITED UNCONTESTED Probate benefit.

Having seen my own family go through it several times over the years, that $9/mo would have saved them tens of thousands. For Joe the Plumber, it is better to spend $9/mo since most do not have the money or assets available to cover the cost of setting a trust to protect it.

My biggest concern when I sell a client a PLPP plan, is to make sure they get a Will established. What they do with it after that is their business. I encourage them to keep it, but if they don’t want it, they wont keep it.

by: Answer This | April 16th, 2009 (4:59 pm)

I’m not an Attorney so I don’t want anyone to take what I say as giving legal advice. From my understanding a Trust will/can bypass probate. As we know not everyone has the need for a trust. Now if they and their Provider Attorney do a good job and do annual updates probate shouldn’t be a major issue.

Both plans offer a Will, Living Will and Durable Power Of Attorney. As I stated above a major difference is the Pre-trial times of the $25.00 plans. From what I remember the PPL plan offers more pre-trial time covered by their plan. So consider $200.00 an hour for an Attorney’s Pre-Trial time and see which plans offers more coverage.

If you have a PLPP plan does it cover schedule “C” for the tax benefit? If a PFS rep. has a legal plan they should have coverage of their business tax return. If it’s not in the plan, why not? I’m sure PFS expects their agents to own the plan and I can assume they understand the different tax responsibilities each agent will have compared to a client who is not in the business or have any other income except from employment.

A PFS agent can pay the same amount and add a small business rider from PPL that will give them schedule “C” coverage. Plus get more pre-trial coverage if needed. Two similar plans so why did PFS offer reduced trial times? (Rule of 72) There’s a possible savings of $9.00 a month that can be used elsewhere.

by: Answer This | April 18th, 2009 (6:24 pm)

This will most likely be my last post because everything that needs to be said has been said. My last point when comparing the Legal plans between what Primerica offers and whet can be had when getting a plan directly from Pre-Paid Legal. Fro those who don’t know Pre-Paid legal along with Primerica designed a private lable product for Primerica agents to market. The Primerica Legal protection Program has a cost of $25.00 a month. A similar plan marketed from Pre-Paid Legal directly has a cost of $16.00 a month. That’s a difference of $9.00.

So here’s something I failed to mention. Getting the plan from Pre-Paid Legal directly and adding identity theft coverage for $9.95 will give a client the legal coverage AND identity theft Coverage. Now this is a comparison for the plans offered in the U.S. I don’t know what the Canadian plan covers for PFS, but the PPL plan is pretty extensive.

I can understand the loyalty of PFS agents, but agents are independent contractors. Al the hype sounds good, but at some point if you are really look at what’s best for your clients and what’s being marketed as what’s best for the company. Hey i understand business is business and Primerica has the right to run their business as they see fit, but knowing what you know now do many of you still really think it’s client first? from my pint of view if given the choice I would offer my clients the PPL legal plan and the ID theft plan for $25.95 a month rather than the stand alone $25.00 a month Legal plan from PFS. “We do what’s right 100% of the time” Does that sound familiar? Do the right thing.

by: On the Brink | April 30th, 2009 (1:30 am)

Wow, I have spent the last two hours reading through everything. :) You guys know your stuff! Please don’t stop this post. It can help people like me who have spouses that have totally bought into Primerica.

My husband will be the first to admit that I am smarter than he is. He, however, has more motivation than anyone I’ve seen. We are different- I come from an educated background, him, a hard-working background.

We have actually talked about divorce because from the get-go, I have felt the “constrictiveness” of PFS. It has turned into so many arguments, it’s unbelieveable. We are on the brink of losing our house, and going bankrupt, yet he feels that “He’s the one.” The next Hector La Marque.

What did your wives think of your job when you were with PFS? (Don’t know if you have spouses or not) Any advice? I’m hoping that eventually… even if it takes years… he will see the light; that PFS is too constricting. If they get bought out or change their pay structure, he is lost. Especially since he didn’t have any insurance background to begin with, he is totally green in the insurance industry.

I don’t know. Any advice?

by: 2thebrainwashed | April 30th, 2009 (9:17 pm)

After reading all these posts, and you still believe that Primerica is best for you and more importantly your clients then you are brainwashed. If you deny that statement then you are just dishonest, end of discussion.

Answer This, that $9/mo for Probate could save families multiple thousands in Probate Fees.

On The Brink, my spouse is quite supportive of me. Granted I am no poster child of how to run a PFS business, but I am also very motivated in all of my businesses.

Most of the “constrictiveness” that is abound is due to Citi. At least from what I can see. Citi will soon not be an issue for PFS. Again, from what I can see. After all, they are reported to be having over an $8 Billion profit this quarter.

I am not saying some of it was not there from before the Travelers/Citibank Merger, just that it heavily increased afterward.

Insurance is not that hard to understand. Like most fields dealing with sales, its the terminology that throws people off. My wife, with NO formal education, understands it just fine. My clients learn the basics in a night. What I am getting at is, your educational background has no baring on what you are capable of. Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki[sp!!]. His “Rich Dad”, if I recall correctly, was a high school drop out yet amassed a fortune in real estate. His “Poor Dad” was a college graduate that lived pay check to pay check barely getting by.

You are not loosing your house because of PFS, you are loosing your house because, combined, you do not make enough to make payments. If getting a second job is not an option for you, and he is not making enough in PFS, then he needs to go out and either get a Part Time or Full Time job. I know several in my office alone that currently make over $100k/yr, but when they started, they had to get PT jobs.

For all you know, he could be the next Hector La Marque, Mike Sharpe, or Larry Weidel. Then again, he could also be the next wash out. Only time will tell.

My advice to you, if you love him, truly love him, then support him. If PFS is not for him, he has to find out on his own. If you are truly that close to bankruptcy, then tell him to get a PT/FT job. If you have considered divorce because of a career choice, go seek marriage counseling, there maybe a deeper problem.

My wife and I have lost 2 houses, lived paycheck to paycheck, kicked out of a town, and have considered divorce multiple times. PFS has never been an issue. The only issue we have had, was always money related. We chose to stick together and support each other. We are still not in the best of shapes, arguably worse than you are, but we support each other which makes it bearable. She supports me in PFS full well knowing I could get 3 times, or more, the pay elsewhere, because it makes me happy. And that is enough for her.

You both need to see it from each others perspective. If he understands yours, then go on appointments with him, ask his uplines those questions you have, and don’t stop till you get the answers. Just keep in mind, they may not be the answers you want.

by: Answer This | May 1st, 2009 (5:05 pm)

Also doing some Estate planning along with the Provider Attorney can possibly save some Probate fees especially if a trust is a consideration.
In my opinion the better way to go would be to get the PPL plan for $16.00 a month. Add the identity Theft plan for $9.95 for a total of $25.95 a month and do some Estate Planning with the Provider Law Firm along with periodic updates. I don’t know too much about the Legal plan that PFS may offer in Canada if they do offer one at all so I won’t comment on it. A Canadian legal plan from PPL can be viewed on their web site.

by: Mark C. | May 2nd, 2009 (11:43 am)

Hey Mrs Onda brink, I was curious on my read of your!

When My dad first started PFS he was already making more that 70K a year and my mom more than 30K both where full time but they found a way and manage in a few short years to totally replace their their bosses and make over 120K/year with time constraints…no pay -cuts…no lay offs..

Now in PFS their always together and supporting each other having more freedom of time with us their children and more money than they had before…dont get me wrong in the beginnin my mom had her issues specially when it came to money…but she new my dad was sick and tired of his JOB “Just over Broke” life so she decided to supported him instead of tearing him down just like the rest of the world was doing..knowing if he made it ..then our whole family would benefit and our lives changed forever…and thats one way how you should look at the way u support your spouse…dont you know his trying and fighting for your famlily financial freedom..anyway dont take my word for it..find out yourself like what Richard said.

P.s. Any man’s name worth remembering in history..never came without hardship and sacrifice!

Hope that helps
God Bless you and your husband and your family!

Good luck!

by: Answer This | May 2nd, 2009 (5:20 pm)

On The Brink. don’t get me wrong. For some people Primeica is a good place to be. It’s not easy keeping up with industry and market changes. What attracted me to PFS was the crusade. I was shown a cash value policy and then shownt the Buy term And Invest The Difference and then told we were the only company doing what’s right. I was told we (PFS) had the best products and he best opportunity bar none. Well after doing some research a i said that wasn’t totally correct.

You see beyond all the hype it’s business. PFS has their products and their target market. Can you become wealthy at PFS? Yes you can, but to do it you have to sellout to the system. it’s not about doing what’s right for anyone, it’s about working their target market and recruit, recruit, recruit. Put the blinders on and follow the system. Work the system and work the numbers. Knowing what I know now, as for me I just couldn’t do it. The kool aid just don’t match the mission. For those who work with PFS, i wish them the best, but if we meet across the kitchen table i will do may best to blow their doors off with facts. Not hype.

by: RRodriguez | May 4th, 2009 (1:47 pm)

Hi guys!

Been away for a while but glad to see everyone still here!
So what’s new?

by: RRodriguez | May 4th, 2009 (2:53 pm)

Independents own their books of business and agency Richard (we can and do incorporate that’s one of the differences in ownership).
Things are not really getting better there from what I see Richard. That is what they want you to think but time will tell. Now I ask you… Does it hurt to be ready for an unexpected change?
You are an insurance agent. You make a living telling people to prepare just in case, right?
Are you prepared, just in case?

Like angry pre-divorce couples when they get potential home buyers, the ‘everything is great’ thing is just a front with a purpose.

Highest level hierarchy leaders are rumored to have signed a non-disclosure document. A meeting may or may not have taken place last week. So those that can tell you the truth are gagged and well rewarded for their silence. To add to it you may not believe credible information because of this disinformation thing going back and forth (a perfect smoke screen).

Look buddy I like your conviction but please be careful and be ready just in case. Know your options.

Even if things hit the fan the “only” thing that would suck about being there is that your clients and agents (essentially your whole business) go bye-bye as per non-compete. So it is worth it to have your own business disaster policy so to speak.

You can always move companies but imagine not being able to contact your old clients?
Starting over from scratch?

All I can tell you is that if such document exists that I could not post what it says here due to insider trading regulations. It may outline what will happen and how important it is to keep quiet so that agents remain loyal to the end. Remember that a non-core asset can be allowed to wind-down (die). Remember that the in-force contracts can be sold and agency can be shut down.
Investigate carefully, read my words carefully.
IBA basic agreement clause 10 can be used.

Heck if there was a future there why would I be here?
If there were better products, training, system, compensation or ownership do you really think I would be here just to be a contrarian?
You are a bright guy ok. Have a plan just in case. It can never hurt you to be prepared. It is a concept you teach as it is.

The good news is after all is done you will be much better in my opinion. Better prices, better products, better information and better everything. So do your thing but don’t go outside without an umbrella in your trunk ;).
Fair enough?

by: Richard | May 5th, 2009 (10:08 am)

RR, I bet you are hoping that Primerica fails.

The higher ups did sign NDA’s due to insider trading laws. I’ve spoken face to face with those that were in those meetings. They did not revel anything (of course).

And again, it is NOT your book of business. It is your CONTACT LIST. The companies you put them pays you to maintain it. That is all. I can incorporate as well. Heck, Bobby Buisson’s company was on the top 20 list of insurance companies a couple years ago for amount term polices put in force (or something like that). He is a higher up in Primerica. Primerica was also on that list. So if I can’t incorporate like you say, why was he on that list?

Listen, the training and information I get are from people who have been in this industry for 35+ years doing what is right. I’ll believe them over any day. I know with out a shadow of a doubt that Primerica is STILL strong and is growing STRONGER.

As a backup plan, I have yet to find a company that is better than Primerica that has enough ethics and morals to do what is right. I’ve been turning down offers from companies offering me double and triple the commissions because their values are around sales and people who can afford “professional salesmen advice.” NOT around people who are barely living paycheck to paycheck, the backbone of this country, the ones who need it the most.

You keep doing what you are doing, and in another 15-30 years, watch those companies you can choose to do business with dwindle from about the 1200 now to less than 600-800 because they can’t compete. After all, there were more than 2000 30 years ago.

by: On the Brink | May 5th, 2009 (12:59 pm)

Thanks for all your advice. :) Richard, how long have you been with PFS? Does your wife still like it? I’m curious if she’s joined too. My husband keeps pressuring me to join but I just feel uncomfortable, and it keeps adding tension between us. I’m starting to feel “okay” with him doing it- if he likes it- but for whatever reasons I still have my reservations. He’s an all-or-nothing guy, and has thrown his whole heart and soul into it, and I’d just hate for him to walk away crushed later if it doesn’t work for him like it’s worked for so many people he says he’s seen be successful at it.

by: Richard | May 5th, 2009 (1:19 pm)

I’ve been associated with Primerica since 10/2001. 10 months after Brandon Neil. Your husband should know who he is if you don’t. Needless to say, I haven’t had his success yet, but I haven’t put in his effort either.

Chances are you have your reservations because he hasn’t “made it” yet. My wife was the exact same way back in ’01. And she had them for 6 years. It took me that long to start making progress with all other things going on. Once progress was being made, she started warming up to the idea. To be honest, she was my third recruit in the business.

She still supports me to this day and knows this will be how we create our future. What ever it will be. She supports Primerica 100% even knowing what else is out there.

If you have your reservations and don’t want to join, then don’t. Make sure he knows that for now you are uncomfortable but may change later when things progress. As with any endeavor though, the only way to fail is to quit.

Assuming he fully believes in everything Primerica stands for, then it is only a matter of time. If it makes you feel any better, my 2 direct RVPS (mine than his) don’t have college educations, one of them never had a job. Both are hillbillies to the core (the stereo type to the T). Mine makes an average of 150k – 200k personally. The other averages 200k – 300k.

Brandon Niel is 29 and just passed $1m/yr. Youngest in the company. Some people do it in 6 years, others take 20. The point, he may take time, but he could be the one to change his and your life forever.

by: Richard | May 5th, 2009 (1:24 pm)

Something I did forget to mention, go to the Partner’s meeting (assuming his office does them). Ask your questions to the other partners and get their responses.

That is what they are their for.

by: Mark C. | May 5th, 2009 (2:26 pm)

Awesum and inspiring words Rich…I can see that your a great leader and a good person @ heart. You remind me so much like my father and that renforces my WHY im doing this…thank you and who knows if I fight hard enough and long enough..I might just have a shot @ beating Brandon…lol! God Bless him for leading the ways…his the proof that you can make it happen if you believe and work hard enough!

Anyways OTB which you all the best your his partner let him know where you stand..but also let him know that you got his back…and that will mean more to him than you know…

God Bless

by: Answer This | May 5th, 2009 (7:23 pm)

Ok let me get this straight. PFS agents are independent contractors. The “higher Ups” have some information they can’t or won’t share with the other reps. who are independent business people. What if what they know can have a material effect on your business interest. How can you honestly recruit others into the company or on your team knowing some information is being withheld?

You guys just don’t get it. Times are changing. Check it out.

How can you compete with this for a recruit or a client? So you see PFS isn’t an issue.

by: Richard | May 5th, 2009 (8:55 pm)

The higher ups have information that can not be shared due to insider trading and NDAs.

Times are changing. Primerica is going back to independent (Before Citi). Just like before HBW and WFG. Which BOTH were results of the Citi/Consumer Credit deals. People left (or got fired) and tried to develop companies that could compete. They believed they had a better system. In the last 10-15 years, with there “better” system, have been unable to match the growth of PFS.

I’ve looked through HBW’s commission structure. It is geared towards salesmen, not businessmen.

HBW is not an issue for me.

by: Answer This | May 5th, 2009 (9:43 pm)

I’m not trying to convince you that HBW is for you. Stay where you are. PFS is perfect for you. For whatever reason the information can or can not be shared the agents are independent business people. Take On The Brink as an example. Her husband is staking their financial future on PFS without certain information. As a business person why is it others can make business plans that may effect their family and Mr Brink can’t due to his contract level? Insider trading or not the higher ups have an advantage. They can shield their business interest. The common PFS agent can’t make the same business decisions they can make. Man that kool-aid is strong. LOL… They that on a regular job and all hell will break loose.

PFS is going independent? Does that mean they may offer other products and carriers? Just not having a noncompete and freedom is in my opinion a better system. Did you notice the ability to run and request quotes on the sites? Just that feature can give agents the ability to do business on a nationwide basis it they so choose. Yes even part-time. Combine that with a tele-app..

HBW’s commission structure is geared toward the goal of the individual. Some people don’t wish to recruit and build a team so they don’t have to. Some people wish to build a team and they have that option. People can market any product they wish which opens up the opportunity to bring in other professionals. The point is there are alternatives to PFS and people are going to find out.

HBW may not be an issue for you, but for the people you try to recruit and the clients you wish to sell the service HBW can provide may be an issue. HBW is just an option. The pro PFS posters are looking now..At some point they are going to ask themself where is their loyalty? To the company and their RVP, or their family, friends and clients?Stay where you are.

by: 2thebrainwashed | May 9th, 2009 (11:53 pm)

“And again, it is NOT your book of business. It is your CONTACT LIST. The companies you put them pays you to maintain it.”

If you are a true independent agent then it is your book of business. A new agent that has the capital can buy your book of business from you when you hang it up. Someone above mentioned loyalty to PFS vs. loyalty to client and friends. Well as an independent you might put a husband with company A and b/c the wife has some concerning situation you might have to put her with company B. Company B may have the best deal for her situation, it may cost a lot. Once she corrects it, I could put her with Company A or which company does the best job for her at that time.

Some of these guys are making some valid points. 1` more valid point. PFS term is expensive compared to waht is available. I see your point though, building an agency vs. doing what is right for the client. I met RR, and just like I RR hopes PFS never goes out of business. It look like some of these guys are trying to recruit you so they are being passive.

But you mentioned “ethics & morals” well we know who does not have any.

Good Luck to All, Once again I hope PFS continues to grow an flourish.

by: Richard | May 10th, 2009 (7:15 pm)

2thBW. Ok, lets use your terminology. You are STILL PAID TO MAINTAIN THEIR clients. You can take the NUMBERS of the people with you but you may not be able to move to a new carrier. Either way, they are clients of the insurance company that we are responsible for maintaining. The sooner you realize that, the better.

And the second comment you posted (that is not displayed that I can see) is like “It’s my way or the highway. If you don’t think like me you are wrong.” Sounds like my wife on PMS. I know it is not because she has more common sense than that.

I have loyalty to my family and friends (my clients become my friends). That is WHY I stay with PFS. You say PFS is more expensive, EVERY QUOTE I HAVE RAN SHOWS PFS BEING AMOUNT THE CHEAPEST. Yes their are companies that our cheaper. I never dispute that. I even tell my clients UP FRONT before I even leave the first time. And no, I NEVER sell on the first visit (unless the client requests…which many have of late).

AT, I have never considered HBW to be competition. I still don’t. There whole structure is traditional insurance. Focus on taking care of the agent and have the client pay it. How do you think all those services traditional agents get for free are paid? The Client pays for it through the policy. Id’ rather pay for it to reduce their expenses.

You ask me how I can recruit knowing that the head office are making day to day decisions that affect me without my consent. Will, how do you do it knowing that HBW’s main insurance company (AIG) is making decisions without asking you? Or HBW is doing the same? When I had my retail business (since switched to services only), my warehouse made material decisions every day that affected my business. I didn’t worry about it. They made those decisions to keep themselves afloat and I just ran with the punches. Didn’t affect my bottom line or clients one bit.

Let me ask you this. If you knew for certain that tomorrow, if you headed to work, you would be shot dead in the office. However, you also knew that if you DIDN’T go, you would be fired and be jobless for 18months. Would you still go? You go, you die, you stay home, you lose your income for the next 18 months. That is a material decision that affects your family.

In OTB’s case, he is making a decision that affects them. In 5 years, she could look back and tell her husband “thank you for not listening and going all out.” The reverse could also be true. The point: Why worry about the future when you live in the present? He made the choice for a better life for his family and is acting on it. It may be the right one, it may not. Only time will tell. He is already ahead of 90% of the people in the world by making the decision and taking action. I wish them luck regardless of what happens.

BTW, I hope one day legislature gets its head out of its ass and removes the law preventing the feds (or anyone for that matter) from conducting an investigation on the industry. They didn’t want the truth to be reviled again like in 79. You know the report I bet. The one stating how much of a screw job Cash Value life insurance (STILL) is.

by: Answer This | May 10th, 2009 (11:17 pm)

There’s no requirement for me to use American General. There’s no requirement for me to only use HBW as a marketing organization. I am free to come and go as I please. What are your options if a client goes online and reads some of this stuff on message boards? What other carrier do you have in your tool box? What if your recruit has an issue with rollbacks? What if your recruit has an issue with giving up a leg or having a full-time requirement to advance to RVP? What are your options?

HBW is in the business and they think of their business interest first and foremost. So do I. It’s great to help people, but there’s also the business side..

I myself don’t wish anything bad for PFS. one issue I have is people have no clue what to compare PFS with. So when they go to an opp. meeting and hear the kool-aid speech they think PFS is the only game in town. well it’s not.

HBW is a BTID company first. Listen to the conference calls and you will hear it from the CEO’s own mouth. just so you know the cash value of today isn’t the same cash value of yesterday. Some do have guarantees.

by: 2thebrainwashed | May 11th, 2009 (3:34 am)

Richard on April 11th, you wrote, “As a licensed agent, you represent the INSURANCE COMPANY not the client. Regardless of if you are captive or not. The client is a client of the INSURANCE COMPANY and you are paid to MAINTAIN the relationship. This distinction was made VERY CLEAR on the tests we take here in Texas.”

My source Noble CE , “Agent vs. Broker
Insurance salespeople are generally referred to as insurance agents. In the technical sense, there is, however, a distinction between an insurance agent and an insurance broker:
1. Agent: A life insurance salesperson who represents
an insurance company. In some cases, the agent is an employee of the insurance company.
2. Broker: In insurance, a broker is a salesperson
who represents the client in finding insurance coverage from any of several insurance companies and who has no exclusive contract requiring that all the business first be offered to any particular company.”

I know what you are saying Richard I read it myself many times myself. But you have misinterpreted what you read. The insurance company does not have an employee that goes and meets the client. The agent is usually the sole contact to the client. It is said that we represent the company because we (the agent ) give the client the facts, the application, and deliver the policy. No company can add a non compete clause either, where did you get that?

Are you making things up? What are you talking about traditional companies having the client pay for it? Have you compared PFS’s term rates to other term rates? Everyone besides you knows that your term is competively priced. That is why I used the handle “2thebrainwashed” not saying you have to think like me.

Here is something for you and others like you Richard. Your company love guys like you. That don’t question anything, just believe everything that they tell you. You claim you compared quotes then name the companies.

by: Richard | May 11th, 2009 (8:24 am)

AT: What are my options if they go online and read? I TELL them to and to write down questions. I even tell them what is out there before they get online. If my recruits have issues, I deal with them on a case by case business.

And if HBW was a TRUE BTID company, why are there cash value policies that can be sold? Why do the policies you sell from the many carriers typically only over a “re-qualify for term or convert to cash” option?

And I have seen the cash value of today. You’re right it is different. It is more of a screw job than back then. Even with guarantees. I can’t wait for that damn law to get repealed and the industry to be re-investigated.

2BT: You missed the next step for the broker. Once the broker has found the company, then become like any other agent and represent the company and no longer the client. You just shop first then sell. Companies can add non-compete clauses if they so choose. Many are just hurting so bad to stay in the industry they choose not too. Average company takes 7 years to turn a profit from one insurance sale. A non-compete would most insurance companies.

It’s called switching hats. You may start out as one but end with another. Once you find that company for the client, you ARE a representative of THAT company and thus an AGENT.

I know term is competitively priced. Companies will adjust rates and fees to covers costs and win business. So if the agent is not paying for things that the company gives them, where is the money coming from to pay for it? The debt they must incur to pay for it or the client that is the only real source of income? They lower the price to compete while reducing profit margins and incurring more debt. They raise rates to increase the reserves and pay down the debt. It’s a vicious cycle.

And frankly, I do question EVERYTHING. Assuming I don’t makes you an ass. (Assume = Ass out of U and Me). Yes childish, but I keep feeling like I’m talking with stubborn children.

I’m no idiot either. Your handle wasn’t a way to say we don’t have to think like you, it was an indirect attack against people who DON’T think like you or the rest of the industry (PFS).

by: Answer This | May 11th, 2009 (10:40 am)

HBW is a Financial Services marketing Organization. They are not an insurance company. The agents can contract with many diffferent companies and market their products. There is no requirement for anyone to sell any cash value policy.

If a company did require a noncompete to contract with them there is an option of just going to another carrier. You sell Term, we sell term. As for companies and fees consider your compensation structure. As has been pointed out before there’s a reason agents start out at the commission levels that they do at PFS. There’s a reason certain products don’t pay renewals while if you contracted outside of PFS you would be paid renewals on basically the same products.

Now Richard. You say ” If the agent is not paying for things that the company gives them, where is the money coming from to pay for it?” How can you argue a company can offer lower rates, free brochures and software against having higher rates and making agents purchase software and brochures? Cmon even you would have to admit that’s a kool-aid argument. LOL.

by: 2thebrainwashed | May 11th, 2009 (4:20 pm)

Wow, Richard I meant your term isn’t competively priced. But I noticed that is the only question you answered. The rest of your post is gibberish (if that is a word). For instance, you just wrote, “You missed the next step for the broker. Once the broker has found the company, then become like any other agent and represent the company and no longer the client. You just shop first then sell. Companies can add non-compete clauses if they so choose. Many are just hurting so bad to stay in the industry they choose not too. Average company takes 7 years to turn a profit from one insurance sale. A non-compete would most insurance companies.”

If that is true which it isn’t, why wouldn’t these so called companies put in a non compete clause for 7 years or until they turn a profit? I asked earlier what companies have you compared your term to? You dodge the question. I never even seen a non compete clause, it is practically non existent and I am appointed with numerous carriers. The reason you guys have the non compete b/c most of you guys at pfs aren’t idiots just “brainwashed”. Sooner or later some of the you guys leave and go elsewhere. That non compete is to scare you guys into not replacing your old PFS business.

So if I have a client with company A b/c of a issue the client has to take care of and once it is a non issue I move them to company B within let’s say 3 yrs., I am representing the company. Is that what you really think, Richard?

Richard you also wrote, “I know term is competitively priced. Companies will adjust rates and fees to covers costs and win business. So if the agent is not paying for things that the company gives them, where is the money coming from to pay for it? The debt they must incur to pay for it or the client that is the only real source of income? They lower the price to compete while reducing profit margins and incurring more debt. They raise rates to increase the reserves and pay down the debt. It’s a vicious cycle.”

Yeah, Richard you are sort of right. But what you are talking about only proves that you are wrong. Companies have only recently raised rates and it has been so minute compared ot the last 15 years of term life premiums being reduced. But refer to “Answer This” posts. My marketing brochures, software, access to the companies websites are still free of charge. Have they raise the rates on your brochures?

I apologize if I hit a nerve. I only attack the ones that have been told the truth and still believe the hype. I stand by my statements RIchard Hancock. I am through with you, it is like beating a dead horse. I wonder are you an agent or employee for the company. Because if you are an employee good thing you weren’t one of the ones laid off at the beginning of the year. But that is write your company is doing just fine.

by: Richard | May 11th, 2009 (4:36 pm)

AT: Primerica is also a marketing company, or did you forget that? PFS just happens to own it’s own Life Insurance company instead of depending on others and having to take what they are willing to give.

Nobody gets special treatment in PFS. EVERYONE starts at the bottom and has to earn their way up. It’s a fact of life. If given a position, it will always be rumored as to whether they earned it or not.

You really are a salesman aren’t you? Nothing is for free and is paid for somewhere. If you, the agent, is not paying for it, the ONLY other place it can come from is from the client in the form of premium. In order to get business, many companies will cut premium in hopes of making it up in mass sales. Game consoles are typically sold this way. That is not a Kool-Aid argument, it is fact.

2BT: You must have been drinking your own kool-aid. Every comparison I have done, PFS stays competitive and is usually within $5 – $10 a month of the lowest for a better product. As to where I went, any quote engine online. I didn’t shop one company, I shopped several. Price to value, PFS wins.

As a broker, it is your responsibility to shop around. Once you have found a company, you become an agent of said company. I could not have made that more clear. Our brochures are offered at cost. If costs go up, so does the price. Plain and simple.

And you haven’t hit a nerve, I just can’t believe the kool-aid is that strong over there. You call me brainwashed yet you can’t understand simple business concepts. You keep selling that shit you have, I’ll keep replacing it.

BTW, it is “right” not “write”. I knew the truth, I ignored the hype. I have never heard so much (except maybe from Microsoft) as I have heard from the “independent agents.” If it truly better over there, why can you guys STILL not compete fairly? Why am I still finding people that have been lied by “the better agents?” Why are there still so many people that NEED help not getting it?

The answer is simple, you are more concerned with the “What’s In It For Me” factor than the “What’s better for the client” mentality. I pity you, but even that is too much.

by: 2thebrainwashed | May 11th, 2009 (5:09 pm)

I just grabbed the original application out of my files. Why do I have the original application? Because I own my clients. In April, I delivered $750k 20yr. term policy for a 47yr. old school teacher. Premiums $96 a month. With your company Richard it would of cost him $119/mo. That’s if got the best rate. Explain to me what your policy have that justifies a $23+ discrepancy.

The same reason I find clients that have been lied to by agents from your company and the industry as well. They don’t know the business.

by: 2thebrainwashed | May 11th, 2009 (5:12 pm)

Richard: “You must have been drinking your own kool-aid. Every comparison I have done, PFS stays competitive and is usually within $5 – $10 a month of the lowest for a better product. As to where I went, any quote engine online. I didn’t shop one company, I shopped several. Price to value, PFS wins.”

Name a company Richard. What company’s term you replaced, who term has no value compared to your company?

by: Answer This | May 11th, 2009 (6:15 pm)

Richard please consult with your RVP. At one time i’m not sure about now, but RVP’s at their option could start people at different commission levels. Everyone did not have to start at the bottom level. That would work with a green agent, but if your going after an experienced agent to add to your team, that won’t fly.

Richard ask ” And if HBW was a TRUE BTID company, why are there cash value policies that can be sold? Why do the policies you sell from the many carriers typically only over a “re-qualify for term or convert to cash” option?”

BTID is a concept. Different carriers have different products for different markets. In life things happen. As we know people will buy a term policy and not save the difference or a life event like Divorce, Loss of a job, health issues, etc. can eat away at any savings plan. So if at some time the client knows they will need coverage longer than anticipated they have the option to convert to a perm. plan to lock in a rate and face amount for Life. Some people do want to have a guaranteed death benefit. the conversions are just an option.

Now as PFS has been in business well over 30 years. Why do they have a renewal within their policy? With the BTID concept along with the Theory of decreasing responsibility after the end of Term the client should be basically self insured.

If by chance a company does cut rates, who is the wins? You mean to tell me Primerica Life has never lowered their rates to be able to compete? Have you ever heard of PFS cutting commission levels? bring up that subject with some of the old timers. What about rolling back agents? You see Richard your defending the what’s good for the company. we are defending what’s good for the agent.

If people want to lay their hat with PFS, so be it. Just understand people have to separate the company interest from the individual business (agent) interest. I myself don’t think many PFS agents are idiots. Many just don’t know what they don’t know. They are green to the industry and only hear one side of it. I have yet to hear of anyone who has left PFS to go independent and has given up independence and gone back. It might have happened, I just have not heard of it happening.

As for being a salesman. It’s all sales. Do you use closing tactics? Ha your RVP ever told you about the Feel, Felt Found closing? Has PFS ever talked about Tom Hopkins? Do you have a Leaders bulletin? Does PFS offer incentive trips? It’s sales. He who sells the most makes the most. Don’t make any sales and see how much contact you will get from your upline. Quit and see how often they call you just to check on the cowboys score and see how your doing? It’s sales..When sipping the kool-aid they may not say it, but it’s sales. Recruit to sell..

Look they even sold you on their idea that it’s ok for higher ups to have inside information that can have a material effect on your business (Your an independent contractor) and they can’t tell you anything. recruit, recruit, recruit, to the end. Why because the company runs on a sales force that’s mostly part-time and they need to keep a constant flow of new people coming in. It is in PFS’s best interest to have the noncompete so as to protect the business. PFS is looking out for PFS. That’s business. One the agents start looking out for what’s in their business interest they leave. Yet there’s still the people who just don’t wish to start over again. See noncompete…

Here’s a secret many PFS agents don’t know. This rings true especially if they don’t have anyone on their team. They can leave PFS and try the independent route. If it’s not for them they can just go back to PFS. All they would have to do is pay the fees again. Shhhhh keep it quiet. Get this they may not have to go back to the same base shop..Shhhhhhhh keep that under your hat.

You say “Nobody gets special treatment in PFS.” Yea right. LOL..

by: DoitNow! | May 23rd, 2009 (3:50 pm)

1. Do not go full time until you are a Regional Leader and aproximetly 6 months from RVP contract. (Regardless what your upline says)
2. Primerica owns your clients. Quit and you will find the truth when you recieve the letter warning you to stay away from your clients or else..
3. Primerica is built on recruiting 1st. Sure some choose not to recruit but not until they reach RVP contract.
4. Is a great company however not the only BTID company.
5. You are captive: All Term, Investments, and Mortgages must go through PFS. (Smart Loan) isn’t as good as they make it seem

1. PFS spin off with a non-captive contract.
2. I hear bonuses suck at RVP equivalent contract
3. Focused on Sales 1st and recruiting second
4. Most that join from PFS don’t make it big. Once they quit PFS they are prone to quit HBW. They blame it on PFS but the reality is that they are to blame.

Recomendation: Go independent…

I was really surprised that this debate of whole life versus term is so badly presented.

To mention the coach (ALWiliams) in Canada is apt to bring the rath of many an agent. The rape and pillage still goes on.

I am no longer a licenced agent but having obtained my CLU( Chartered Life Underwriter) designation in 2001 I find this interesting on to the point of humourous.

I find it very fascinating that most people whether right or wrong will present their opinions as facts and back them up with only the correct facts that seem to colaborate their side of the opinion. the book Coach was banned in provinces in Canada and some states many years ago.

The correct fact is that their is a time and place for both products term and permanent insurance.

It is quite easy if it is a temporary problem such as a young family whole needs income protection then a lot of inexpensive ( i hate the word cheap) term is required.

For a permanent problem such as the unfunded tax liability on a rrsp then a permanent product is required.

It appears to me that it would be very difficult to do any Comprehensive Financial Planning or Estate Planing with a limited stable of products.

Some things I would like our experts to remember .

1. The licence to sell Life insurance should be the start of your training not the end.

2. To anyone who replaces any product plese remember to read the front of the replacement form to the propective client.. In Paraphrase ” it is the obligation of the replacing agent to sugest that the insured refer back to the issuing company where they may be able to make some concessions and offer benefits not given in the new policy.”

3. When training for the Mutual Funds Licence your should review the area where it is suggested that everyone should have an adequate amount of Life insurance before investing.

4. The above is restated when studying for the CFP course of study.

Unfornately most companies convince their representatives that the business is about sales and commisisions not assisting the client with some of the most important decisions of their life.

5. When talking to clients we were taught a valuable question to ask oneself. ” would you buy this solution for yourself and would you recomend that your mother go ahead with this today.

If you dont train purposly with the idea of becoming a Financial Advisor, CLU, CFP or work for a company with these people how would you expect to aspire to becoming a professional.

‘Thank you for your time and have a great day.

by: Answer This | May 27th, 2009 (5:45 am)

Doitnow. For HBW compensation you can go directly to the company web site and see the compensation video and the guidelines. Something else to consider is the many different products available to be offered. Not to mention the securities side of 6,63,26 and 65. Agents can have outside business if they so choose. At HBW there’s no recruiting requirement. Some agents just don’t wish to build a team. as for a comparison, there’s no comparison between what HBW has to offer compared to what Primerica has to offer. It’s just a case of to each his own or many agents at PFS just don’t know industry wise what they don’t know. Really it’s beyond a HBW vs Primerica. As agents are independent contractors they should understand the contract they sign. With all things being equal, why would someone who is in the industry on a part-time basis sign a noncompete when they have other options?

Larry something to consider is the PFS market. It’s a Term product with a side account. That’s it. Keep it simple. The “debate” is done. All over the net PFS agents are getting schooled. Once the kool-aid factor wears off and they start asking questions they start asking questions and gathering information. Facts are facts.
Primerica isn’t a bad or scam company. They have their business model people can take it or leave it. just keep people going through the system. It works for them. They put up the numbers. The more PFS agents post or read blogs, the closer they come to leaving PFS. At some point they will do some research. Facts are facts.

by: MarK C. | May 27th, 2009 (2:12 pm)

Yeah I read your blogs..but Im still PFS for life! Nothing will change that FACT the PFS helped me and my family while the rest of the industry failed miserable! We only becom PFS clients a few years ago..compared to what we had prior when we had all the wrongs advice from so called FINANCIAL EXPERTS…with that said and done there’s nothing else to say!

Cheers yall!

by: Richard | May 27th, 2009 (4:18 pm)

2tbw: Allstate, State Farm, Waddell and Reid, etc. Every one I have come across I have replaced.

Had he lived, he would have received a much lower renewal rate compared to your policy. Second, how old was he when the policy was put in force? Depending on that, he may have qualified for a longer level period. BTW, had he been 44 at the time of policy and best rate, it would have stayed the same for 30yr.

The smart loan is not for everyone. For those it is for, it is usually a considerably better option than what else is out there. And as stated many times before, the clients belong to the companies anyways, we are simply paid to maintain the clients. We can split this hair as many times as you want. Business people get it, salesmen do not.

Larry, please provide a link to where and when the book was banned. It doesn’t show up on the first 10 pages of Google ANYWHERE for that claim. The purpose of life insurance is to replace income and cover unexpected bills related to an insureds deaths. Not for tax purposes. Last I checked, that was Insurance 101. I’ll quote Dave Ramsey on this one:

“Take Bob and Susie. They start with nothing and get 200k of 20yr level life insurance. And have average debt. Put them on this plan. Fast forward 20 years. Kids are grown and gone, debt is paid off, they OWN their house, and have $700k in retirement investments. Hmm, if Bob dies tomorrow, I think Susie could live just fine without a $200k death benefit with the $700k of investments. What do you think?”

Vastly paraphrased, but the point is still the same. Bottom line, if we are all doing what is right for our clients, permanent/crap value/whore life insurance has NO place in the market place.

AT: I’ve done my research. HBW is like every other “independent” firm out there. Just like every other company I keep taking business from. HBW, WFG, and many others are SALES based marketing companies. Their commissions are geared towards the individual producer. Their bonuses SUCK. I’ve ran the numbers countless times. As an RVP (compared to same level at HBW), with overrides and all, I would make less up front here at PFS. Add in bonuses from building a business, I make 3 – 4x as much.

If all you independents are so much better, why do I keep finding problems with your plans? Why do your clients keep calling me for help? Why do your clients get so mad when I show them, using the products documentation YOU left behind, how they got fucked by you? Simple. Having more products does not make a better person. A better person makes a better person.

by: Answer This | May 27th, 2009 (9:46 pm)

Hello Richard welcome back. First off i’m not a blog mod., but the strong language isn’t called for. It’s very unprofessional. as I always say stay at PFS. PFS is perfect for you. Every company/organization is geared towards sales. If nothing is sold no one gets paid. At HBW there is the option to advance from personal production or with a team. Can an agent at PFS advance from personal production? As we all know, not everyone has the want to recruit.

To you the bonuses at HBW may “suck”, but forget the bonuses for a minute and just consider what can be made from other products. There’s LTC, Disability, Senior Settlements, Fixed/Indexed Annuities, Mortgages, A Debt Reduction Program (Very small commission on that one) Series 6,63 and 65 and then throw in the agents ability to have outside business such as Health Insurance, Real Estate, CPA’s, Attorney’s, Financial Planers, etc. now compare all that opportunity compared to what PFS can offer. If an agent thinks the bounses suck all they have to do is produce their own bonus.

HBW isn’t for you or Mark C. That’s ok. As for more products, products are just tools. Would you rather go to a job with a tool box or with just a hammer. Have you ever heard of Ed Slott?

ALW/PFS has been around for 30 plus years. Where are all the people who are financially independent using the BTID concept? At one time ALW had over 200,000 agents. That’s thousands of people who have been approached by ALW/PFS. Yes I know you can’t make people save and invest but at some point if you see they arn’t saving and investing, what do you do? If they live beyond their Term plan and don’t save or life has thrown them a curve what are your options? What if they develop a major health issue and as we know health issues take money. What do you do? What are the options if you run into a PFS client who is coming to end of Term? Do you inform them of the possibility of selling the policy in the open market? Would having the option of conversion be a positive?

So go ahead and replace programs if you can just make sure your E/O is in place. Tell a client to drop a policy because they are financially free and let them find out they had an option of selling their policy and you never informed them about it..So in closing. Yea right clients are calling you for help. Are these “clients” calling for help with their Term plans or are you reverting to cash value again?
Just to get it straight there are others who sell mostly if not only TERM. If Primerica isn’t about sales, just give out information and don’t sell any products.

You say “Their commissions are geared towards the individual producer.” Is it wrong for the person who makes the sale to make the most from the transaction? At least at HBW the CEO says the person who makes the sale should make the most. To me that fair.
You may not think so, but you agree with a noncompete and giving up legs. etc.

Hey AT finaly you understand that we are PFS and cannot be convinced otherwise. and same with you..happy where you are den stay where you for giving up legs well that only fair as to not handicap my upline since im being promoted to the same level as him and leaving his team and expanding my own..likewise if I promote a downline who is a big personal producer in my team if he leaves I dont want my business to go down so I get replacements to take his place..just like in any corporate structure…you let some people go or the you get new ones to replace so that your business stays balance…I dont see any wrong in that! Geez man! What if you best people left your business..wont that affect your overall business…so want the problem with that their getting their promotion to a higher compensation and bonuses! and get to open their own branch..last I check thats the goal of the company to open more branches and outlets to service more people and get more market share!

Be happy where you are and will be happy where we are and thats the end of that…NEXT please!


by: Answer This | May 28th, 2009 (2:41 pm)

Sure your happy and that’s great, but when you bring in others you don’t tell the whole story. When I bring people on my team I give them all the information they ask for and more. If you noticed HBW is an open book. People can see the contract and the products on the web site and if they so choose call and speak to the CEO. Where is the commission schedule located on the PFS web site? Where is the policy specifics? If these things are not available what does the prospective recruit have to compare what you have to offer with? My post in a way can help other practice over coming objections, but the problem is you guys have nothing to back up you rebuttals. People can only go by what you say. I sya don’t believe a word I type. People should do research.

As for replacement, if people left my business i would wish them the best and if they wanted to come back I would welcome them with open arms. You see people have to do what’s best for them. I understand that. Now how is it fair for someone to go out and find a team member, train them and then give them up due to a advancement? As we know the RVP will in most cases take the best producing leg. That’s directly taking income from the advancing agent. Yea I know the advancing RVP should have more than one strong leg. Well we know how that goes. So the question is why is it better to have a requirement to give up a leg than to not have one? You don’t see anything wrong with replacements because you don’t know of any other way. Art or no Art. PFS will have to make some drastic changes to compete long term. The majors are the noncompete and the giving up legs. Across the kitchen table for a potential recruit if you offered a contract with a noncompete and the giving up legs and I didn’t who do you think would get the recruit? You can hype it or spin it anyway you so choose, but you would lose.

Just for a point of information. You PFS guys don’t say when the threads will end or continue. I think that right only goes to TFB. Your an independent contractor defending a company you have to ties to. My information is directed to inform the agents as to the business side of marketing organizations. Be on a crusade, but don’t be played for a fool. Facts are facts…Thank you very muchhhh…

Which brings up the question. If by chance Primerica did shut down and sell off the block of business what contractually can you take with you elsewhere (if you wanted to stay in the industry)? Yes I know you have faith that Primerica will consider what’s in your best interest especially considering your independent contractors.. Oh yes I just updated my carrier software I get for free and I just ordered some more FREE brochures from the carrier. Hey wait a minute all of the carriers I represent give me free tools/supplies.

by: Mark C, | May 29th, 2009 (3:20 pm)

Yata yata yata! Thanks for your opinion and ur view..not everyone thinks like you and not everyone wants to be like you okay so you go and try to recruit and “WE PFS GUYS” will continue to recruit and let the numbers show who will out recruit who?! Let the numbers show and speak for themselves! Anyways if your only hope of recruiting is in this blog well you better have sum kool aid in reserved cuz your in for a long haul! Good luck bdw…Il send you a postcard and check on you if you ever need some more kool aid buddy,..wouldnt want you to get thirsty or dehydrated so that you can continue your business…

By the way speak for yourself because when I recruit people I disclose everyting and give them the membership form to read first and answer any question they might have and guid them every step of the way! I dont know what Primerica version you have in your head or in your experience..but my is totally and completely different from your man so dont say that we dont disclose..dont be steryotypical..jsut because we are “Primericans”…We;re a legit business and good company to work with and we are to my knowledge the only one that does what we do on a bigger scale and are growing the fastest! Anyway man TFB doin his thing..your doing your thing and WE are doing our thang! So let it be! Anyone who signs anything without fully understanding there contract really has to go back and take the time to get their questions answered and do their own research!

Thank YOU ladies & gents!

by: Answer This | May 29th, 2009 (3:46 pm)

I have an appointment so i’ll keep it brief. I’m not contacting PFS reps. They are contacting for recruiting on this blog, please show where I have given out any contact information. Primerica as it stands is done if they don’t make some changes. We have the ability to run quotes from different carriers from our individual web sites which mean if we so choose we can just get a nonresident license in every state or individual statesand do business. How can you compete with that? As for LTC business, disability business and Fixed/Indexed annuity buiness we use brokerages who assist us with plan design and proposals. How can you compete with that? get this…Free..

So stay loyal to the company. Ask Lee Iacocca about company loyalty.

Yes i’m sure you explain giving up legs, roll back, charge backs and the difference between being captive and independent. Do you also tell your recruits they don’t have to start at the lower commission level because they can start at a higher level per the RVP’s discretion? Ask your RVP about that one. Can they still do that? The only way to save PFS is for the organization to go independent, make the commissions more competitive and to revise the agent agreement which they won’t do. An indpependent contractor blinded by company loyalty. Yet the company has no loyalty to you. Don’t think so, read your contract.

by: Mark C. | May 30th, 2009 (9:56 am)

Listen here I will make it this brief because i have several appointments and groups to present to so I wont wast anymore time! Ik happy and content where I am an you yours! Your Are thinkin salesman mentality I on the other had Im Business minded thats why I want to build a business so that I make money without goin out in the field as ofter..while you always have to ..caus you salesman thats the BIG DIFFERENCE ok! Nothin more to say! I see you always want the final word..well I dont care so move on or I will!

by: Answer This | May 30th, 2009 (10:20 pm)

What’s wrong with having a salesman mentality. Some people want to just sell. You see at other organizations we feel people should have the ability to run their business how they feel is in their best interest. Now as for me, I have agents in many states. Some want to market licensed products and some don’t wish to get licensed. You see I introduce the business and let people decide which way is best for them. I am build a nationwide team in the US and hopefully one day in Canada.

Now you mention building a business so you don’t have to go out in the field. Consider the products you currently market that don’t pay renewals until you reach RVP. Consider the loss of compounding from not earn those potential renewals.. You see some products (Organizations) pay renewals outside of PFS. Consider your LTC product. I can sell the same product and earn renewals. Yes even my newly licensed people can earn renewals too. Same thing with offering legal plans outside of PFS. Oh one more thing about offering legal plans outside of PFS. Did you know a an associate and their spouse can both sell Legal plans on the same contract?

Let’s look at business building. Just because someone isn’t with PFS does not mean they don’t understand building a business. Yes I have heard of recruiting wide and deep. You are building a business for Primerica. I am building a business for me. Which comes to the question you won’t answer. At this point in your PFS career if you wanted to leave what could you take with you per contract? Me I can take my team and clients (If they wanted to follow me) and move on. I had that option from day one. That’s an option for anyone I bring on my team from day one. You see my main concern is about MY business. Your concern is of the business of Primerica. That’s ok, but please read above article. So build your team and go sell to your groups. Just keep looking over your shoulder because your licensing and training your future competition. Remember many of us (Former PFS Agents) were where you are now. The more you read and the more you post the closer you get to leaving PFS. Facts are facts. Your loyal to Primerica the business. I’m loyal to my business. I can offer the best products from many different carriers. You can only offer what Primerica thinks is best for Primerica. Now that’s being a salesman. You offer no other options.

When I was at PFS I was happy too, until I found out I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Once I snapped out of the Kool-aid effect and looked at it as a business I felt like a fool.

by: RRodriguez | May 31st, 2009 (11:06 pm)


If you are not allowed to procure products outside those dictated to you. That might make you more of a salesman (assuming the condescending tone you seem to give the title) any of us could ever be. I own a business I can pass to my kids and no company can shut it down or sell it from under my feet.

It is amazing how these guys forget Art procured the cheapest carriers back then. Now in contrast, they have to justify selling those policies not matter how many challenges may be involved and if they want to stay there they have to defend them, so I understand the predicament. What else can they do?

Hey that’s your loyalty move ok but it doesn’t make it better or right.
What is this notion that in order to do BTID you must renounce any and all permanent products?
There is a proper use for each product and you cannot use an insurance mentality of one size fits all method. Yes one size fits all because no matter what you still use that one carrier, that one product and the product is not geared towards older individuals with taxation reduction needs or women (unisex policies cost too much simply for being a woman!).

Where is the logic on preventing you form issuing a suitable insurance product when you client has been deemed Impaired Risk or too old for Term?
How about for estate or taxation reduction planning purposes?
BTID is a concept, not a company.

by: 2thebrainwashed | June 1st, 2009 (11:12 pm)

Richard, Richard, Richard,

Waddell & Reed has there own insurance policy? Are they an insurance company? Allstate and State Farm, I can’t recall but one of them if not both have expensive term products also. One of them sell there term through Lincoln Benefit Life State farm I believe. Lincoln Benefit term is better than what you can offer. I am sure Allstate is also. You haven’t replaced anyones term. You are so transparent, you are just pulling stuff up out of the air I hope. Because if your managers are telling you this crap, I feel sorry for you and your clients. My handle could not have been more appropriate.

If he had been 44, is that what you tell your clients? I take this business to serious so I feel obligated to call you and the other reps that have been exposed to the truth and still defend what you are doing BRAINWASHED jokes of the industry.


Don’t worry about replying I probably one reply. Xcuse the typos.

by: Answer This | June 2nd, 2009 (2:20 pm)

It’s over. The pro PFSer’s have no clue what is going on with other organizations. It’s not just about BTID. There’s also a marketing side to all this. You guys just don’t have a clue what you are up against and it’s in the beginning stage. There’s a major national expansion that is taking form and you just don’t have a clue. Stay where you are and keep drinking that Kool-Aid… You just don’t have a clue…

by: Mark C. | June 2nd, 2009 (4:07 pm)

Answer this I have a Clue and its not to sell out like you sorry to sayt..but maybe you just want to stay as a salesman forever but me no I want to recruit train and develop independent business owners and not independant salesman..I guess theirs a need for those kind of people to let them drink your koooool aid ad ok me I will dring my martini shaken nor stired on the rocks ok! RR well your entitled to your view how to run your business…maybe you and AA can merge together and create a company and try to compete with Primerica…Your market is the old folks..or the innocent who dont have a clue….are market are those middle class “80%” majority of the people who needs it the most who have been over-taxed..under paid..over-stressed and who want to get freedom from debts from corporate job and who are stressed out and insecure about their jobs… WE give them a fighting chance to be somebody and call the shots! Like
I said always the final word and I will betcha a million $ that you will once again comment and perpetuate this …

So I will be the smarter individual to focus on my building an sign off for good from this useless and endless debating!

FINALY I say my fairwell to yall!!

Good luck!

by: Answer This | June 2nd, 2009 (6:20 pm)

Mark C. I target the same market you do and more. You don’t know what you don’t know. I am building a team on a nationwide basis. I hire greenies and the experienced. I can sit down side by side with you and do the same thing. You can’t sit side by side with me and do what I can do for a client.There’s no debate. On my personal web site I can have potential clients run quotes. Can you? That ‘s just one point… You have no idea what your “competition” is doing.

It amazes me after looking at all these posts for the past few months how these new PFS agent get so mentally into ” we are better than you” mantality and think they can give a client a reasonable chance at giving them a financially sound plan, when you need years of experience to even think you are going to make millions in your first month. You start out by writting your close friends and family with small little products, you then grow with your clients, as they grow familes they need more coverage and products, as they get older, there needs change, you will not be rich overnight people, it doesnt happen that way. I have been in this industry for 30+ years, I have worker with New York Life my first 9 years and have been independent since. All products have a purpose, including permanenet, I had a healthy retired 63 year old come to me last month asking for life insurance. All she wanted was a policy she can pay so that if she passes today or in 40 years the policy will be there so that no one else will be burdened with the expense. She has no savings, no family left. Do you honestly think I would sell her term and invest the difference. All products have a purpose and all products lessen the finacial risk for someone else. I can just imagine walking into an auto dealership and the salesman telling me that they have only one car to sell and thats what I need. You cannot tell an individual, a family or a business what they need before you even know them, thats absurd!!! I just cant phathom how this way of doing business is being used these days.

by: Answer This | June 3rd, 2009 (5:11 pm)

Joe, the reason they think the way they do is because that’s all they know. They go by what they heard and not what they have found out on their own. Why consider Pension Max when they don’t have a product for that concept. Please don’t ask them about a Funeral Trust. It’s not in their market. They have no clue on the potential income they are giving up from being held captive. Part-time at that…..

Answer This,

Wow!!! What control.

by: Answer This | June 4th, 2009 (5:02 am)

Sure it control and many don’t even know it. I remember a confrontation i had with a PFS agent. Well it wasn’t really a confrontation, he was trying to recruit me. I made all my points and he went off on cash value. I said i don’t sell much perm., but if it’s needed or the client wants it I will give it to them. So he goes off on “you don’t get the cash value if you die”. I explained how the cash value is used to allow the policy to perform as illustrated and that the cash value did not belong to the client so when he told people they lose their cash value if they die, he was being misleading. It’s the insurance company money and that’s why they charge interest because they lose the use of that money. That’s basic, but they can’t comprehend it.

I was once a PFS Rep., so I can understand where they are coming from. I can also understand Primeica’s position. It’s not their responsibility to educate their field force outside of their products and marketing plan. It’s business. It’s not about some crusade. It’s business and I found out it was business when I left. They mailed me a letter telling me to stay away from the clients I brought in for 2 years. As I said I don’t hate on PFS, they have everything in writing in their agent agreement. The main problem is no one reads it and anyone new to the industry has no clue what are the red flags or things they should be concerned about.

Get this. Many PFS agents are married and have kids. Out of their loyalty to the company they purchase the P.Life term when they know they could get more coverage with the same or less premium dollar outside of PFS. Especially when you consider the rates for females.

They will say, God, family, then business. Well to me it seems to go God, business then family. Knowing what they know, how can they go to family and friends and offer the PFS product while knowing that they could get more coverage elsewhere for their premium dollar?

Once I found out I couldn’t do it. You see the crusade and the mission became what it really was. It was sales. It’s business. Richard and Mark C. along with others don’t see it because they don’t want to. The Primerica agents tell about the theory of decreasing responsibility. Well if their plan is so great why do they have renewal rates? The client should be financially independent at the end of term. Then of course they never ask where are all the people who are financially independent who started the plan from back in the 70″ early 80″s? They should be showing up NOW. With the economy as it is now would be the time to tell the masses of the success of BTID and how PFS have saved many families. Primerica isn’t a bad business, but it is business. Really it’s genius…

So you pro PFS people consider this. God forbid if you died at this moment what death benefit would be delivered to your loved one’s. Use your current premium dollar and compare what could be potentially delivered at

This is about doing what’s right for your family. if you have a PFS policy because you have to own what you sell your putting the needs of Primerica before the needs of your family. The kool-aid is served cold.. It has to be because the agents are the life blood of the business. Just so others know, I don’t care if PFS stays around or gets shut down. They are not an issue. It’s all about giving information so people can make an informed decision and ask questions before they contract with any organization.

A “part-time” independent contractor and captive. Why? For the primeicans, if anything I have posted is wrong, please let me know.
You say you have the best policy, but PFS (Per rumor) is willing to give up that business and sell the sales force to another who will give you another product to sell. Don’t you ever just say hmmmm something just doesn’t sound right? It’s ok for PFS to consider other carriers products for their field force to sell, but not for you.

Joe it’s deep……

by: Answer This | June 4th, 2009 (7:06 pm)

Here is something I ran across on another message board. I don’t know if this is the true PFS compensation structure/guidelines so maybe Richard or Mark C. will verify it.

“The first level is Representative. To qualify for Representative, you must submit your Independent Business Application and get your life license. Representatives earn 25% commission on life insurance. Average annual premiums for life insurance for a husband and wife is about $1000. Representatives will earn $250.

The second level is Senior Representative. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 3 new business associates to qualify for Senior Representative position. Senior Reps earn 35% commission on life insurance, so they will get paid $350. Not only that, they also earn 10% overrides (35% – 25%). So if you have a Representative who helped a family, the Representative gets paid $250 and you will get paid $100.

The third level is District Leader. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have one business associate promoted to Senior Representative. You and your team must also submit $2500 in premiums in one month. As a District Leader, you earn 50% commission on life insurance, 15% (50-35) override on Senior Reps, and 25% (50-25) override on Representatives.

The forth level is Division Leader. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 1 business associate promoted to District Leader and submit $5000 in premiums in one month. As a Division Leader, you earn 60% commissions on life insurance, 10% override on Districts, 25% override on Senior Reps, and 35% override on Representatives.

The fifth level is Regional Leader. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 3 business associates promoted to District Leader and submit $7500 in premiums in one month. Regional Leaders earn 70% commission on life insurance, 10% override on Division, 20% override on Districts, 35% override on Senior Reps, and 45% override on Representatives.

The sixth level is Regional Vice President. In addition to Representative qualification, you must have 6 business associates promoted to District Leader, be full time in the business, must be fully licensed, and submit $20,000 in premiums for 2 consecutive months (a minimum of $8000 in each month), must have acceptable persistency, and must be approved by Office of Supervisory Jurisdiction. RVPs earn 95% commission on life insurance plus bonuses and override commissions.

The seventh level is Senior Vice President.
The eighth level is National Sales Director.
The final level is Senior National Sales Director.”

by: RRodriguez | June 9th, 2009 (3:36 pm)

Not only that. Before promotion to VP an RL must give up an agency leg with respective downlines. Since the promoting VP still over rides everyone it is beyond me how they actually justify it and the promoting VP chooses which leg to take.
Their only consolation is that someday they will get to chop one of their downlines in the same manner (like a gang initiation beat-down)… Supposedly this makes the new VP stronger. So do steroids but that is still not right.
Then they have the commission levels being so low to compensate the guy above far more than the writing agent, that is not how it works elsewhere.
Territory (recruitment networking) and product limits are beyond reason there because they don’t even issue some products they prohibit which is unreasonable in my opinion.
Then the monthly fees they pay to run their FNA subscription, brochures at cost etc… No we don’t pay those and we have them too.

Mark has no idea what he is talking about. he actually thinks we focus on other markets. Mark we serve your market and then some, we serve everyone. Think of it this way… Those you are forced to exclude we help and those you help, we help even more. I have yet to see a single product in your arsenal I cannot defeat easily in both price and benefits. You cannot even approach other markets (keeps your income rather low in realtive comparison).

They completely refuse to acknowledge incredibly strong points such as why sell expensive unisex term? He never touched that subject.
Or what’s wrong with doing term comparison shopping?
How about why build a company for someone else?

See, in all markets we would not use a term that would penalize women. In all markets we match the right term carrier with the right term client. In the same manner we match clients with a need for permanent products.

Those guys think we are the enemy, when in fact the enemy is the one that has a vested interest in maintaining their subjects in ignorance.

What is most incredible to me is that they see this information and it is like they simply refuse to understand it or research it. They seem to be compelled to remain there no matter the amount of undeniable evidence that the only thing you they doing 100% right all the time is selling for one company.

Certainly that is not being on the client’s side. If you are going to replace a WL then know what you are doing and issue the best term policy out there, not just the only one you are limited to sell.
Also don’t let a company tell you that you cannot use your license to help people get Disability, Critical Care, Accident and Health products, medical insurance, fixed annuities etc…
Just because they don’t sell it that does not give them the right to limit your earning potential. Let’s see if they can justify that with any logic or reason.
If someone is telling you that your state license can only be used to sell their products, that is a good sign that you might be the salesman as they have removed objectivity from being an option.

by: Answer This | June 12th, 2009 (11:02 am)

So true RR. What I have learned isthey may say they have a mission of helping people get out od debt and becoming financially independent, but to do this as an agent is to recruit, recruit and then recruit some more. It’s not the products. It’s the system. If it were about products the agents could advance from personal production. why is recruiting required to advance? Think about it. Forced saving account= Bad,,,Forced to recruit=Good.. Hey Kool-aid..

WOW! Dude what happedned to you, to cause this bashing against our company PRIMERICA. I’m a Dvisionion Leader in PRIMERICA and I’m so thankful for my teammates (uplines and downlines, those making seven to less figuers). I’m a single mom and no employer I’ve worked for has ever exposed me to a system that is leading me to financial independence.and freedom let along allowed me to work it and share it with others who can do it too if they get out and work!

by: Answer This | June 25th, 2009 (4:28 pm)

Wilma what have I or others said that isn’t true? I’m not bashing the company. If there is a better way to get to financial independence why is it a problem? Have you noticed when the other PFS posters get frustrated they revert to calling everyone cash value salesmen when we say all the time we sell Term?

Something else to consider is it’s not your company. Your an independent contractor. Have you considered that “your company”, per news accounts has offered to sell you? (The marketing organization) Sure that’s loyalty to the sales force. Market with whomever you like, just tell the whole story.

For years PFS agents attacked other agents and companies and now it’s a problem when it’s coming back home. You are not Primerica. You are an independent contractor who has contracted with Primerica to market their products. Read your contract. PFS spells it out.

If you want a successful career at PFS stay off message boards. You can’t argue facts..Just do blind recruiting and sooner or later you will get to where you want to be. Keep people coming and going.

by: Answer This | June 25th, 2009 (9:47 pm)

Ok, i’m going to lay off you Primericans. It’s over. You guys have no clue what is going on with your “competition”..You won’t see it until you look at this as a business.

For those that are curious there are 1972 people that make over $100,000/yr.

The breakdown is as follows:
1524 making $100,000-$249,999/yr
281 making $250,000-$499,999/yr
81 making $500,000-$749,999/yr
28 making $750,000-$999,999/yr
42 making $1,000,000-$1,999,999/yr
10 making $2,000,000-$2,999,999/yr
2 making $3,000,000-$3,999,999/yr
3 making $4,000,000-$4,999,999/yr
1 making $5,000,000+/yr

This is current as of the 2009 Primerica Financial Independance Council book.

So less than 2% of their agents make $100,000. That is so sad!!

Sorry, Joe, but not all the numbers were posted. Only about 13% EVER do any business in a month and about 50% of the full timers make over $100k.

RR, AT, JA, you need to wake up to what is really going on. Regulations are being put in place to monitor and restrict the traditional life insurance/securities agents.

The companies you represent are encouraging and SUPPORT a single exemption to said regulations. Can you guess what that is? Exempt Primerica from such oversight since Primerica continues to do what is right for the client. Those are your companies supporting that. Primerica has over 30 years doing that and that is not changing.

Not all term is created equal, Primerica’s is above average. Primerica pays out twice the industry average per claim. Primerica brags about how much it pays in death claims. Primerica continues to educate people on how things work.

The companies you represent are hurting, and hurting bad. They can’t make their profit margins selling term because they have invested so much into cash value. Last month, 6 respected carriers went BEGGING to the US government for money. This month, only 2 accepted it.

The SEC filing for the companies you represent all say the same thing. “Don’t know if we can meet the guarantees we made.” They need to keep borrowing money to keep the reserves full. They need to lower prices to get clients because their products alone wont well themselves. They need to raise commissions to get agents to sell their products. Your companies are pricing themselves out of business because they wont adapt the philosophy of “Doing what is right by the client.”

I don’t have to look far to know this, I get the selling material all the time in the mail requesting me to sell their products. Not a single one shows any benefit to the client. They all emphasize either higher commissions, lack of choice by the client, and for the cash value products, a barely keeping up with inflation guarantee.

You brag about not having to pay for marketing material, thats all find and good, but your CLIENTS are paying for it through the policy premiums. They cut premiums to get customers while extending how long it takes to be profitable. They run the risk of the client dropping the business before making a profit so they can stay in business.

The companies you represent are so financially unstable, they don’t even know it yet. Yes Citi took TARP money, they also took money from Primerica’s profits. Primerica has 0 debt and took 0 funds. Primerica still grows despite all the shit going on.

You guys can hate it all you one. Keep clinging to the old model, HBW is the old model despite how new the company is, Primerica will keep with a model that benefits the client and agent. When your companies get put on the block for predatory lending or misleading sales practices, don’t come to me. I only want honest and ethical people on my team.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that you were about 100,000 in Primerica. Therefore, only 4,000 are working full time out of the 100,000 advisors? this sounds pretty small. what are the others do?

Primerica has over 100k licensed agents. Since there is no pressure to sell and agents are encouraged to start part time, only about 12 to 13% ever turn in a sell each month. The numbers are the numbers. The rest either phase out and let licenses expire (while being replaced by new agents) or only work holidays for extra cash.

It should also be noted that of those 100k, between 25k and 30k are also mutual fund licensed (Series 6/63). Most people truly do Primerica as a way of earning an extra couple grand a month and nothing more. Very few want to take it to a full career change.

This is quite interesting as in Quebec, they don’t have the choice of doing it part time or not (I guess it’s because we have a bunch of weird laws 😉 ).

That is because about 2 months before Primerica entered Quebec (and Canada in general), the insurance companies were afraid of competition and got the “no part time” law pushed through and passed.

If you ever get a chance, read the Coach Book. Even if for no other reason than to “research the competition.”

by: Answer This | June 29th, 2009 (7:22 pm)

I can assume that after all the dust settles Primerica Life will be the only carrier left standing? You see Independent can add or subtract carriers when they so choose. I still fail to see how Primerica is doing what’s right for the client? What is the meaning of doing what’s right? As agents we all get the mailings That’s nothing new. Your clients pay a bit more and you have to pay for marketing materials? My clients can pay less and I get free marketing materials. As for companies we do have access to Mutual companies. One more thing. sure this is a somewhat heated debate, but cussing isn’t needed. It doesn’t look good for PFS that agents when pressed revert to cussing to make a point.

Unless PFS makes some changes they are done. They just won’t be able to compete. PFS agents can basically only recruit on a local level. We can build on a nationwide level. Online at that if we so choose. How are you going to compete with that. Then across the kitchen table in a confrontation you won’t win.

HBW and Primerica are just different platforms for people to start a Financial services business. People just have the option of just picking one. HBW is upfront and exposed. What information can an individual gather from the Primerica web site. To get any kind of concrete information they have to go to a meeting. Why is that?

One day HBW will/might be in Canada. It might be in a few years, but when they do open up your done. If PFS is still around.

by: Answer This | June 29th, 2009 (7:30 pm)

TFB. PFS has been throwing around that 100,000 agents for years and still say they are growing. So I would assume many people are joining and many people are leaving. That’s some strong kool-aid. Keep them coming and going. Sell to the new recruits warm market. Recruit to sell.

When the dust settles, Primerica will be the only one still operating as it was and NOT with increased oversight to protect the consumers.

PFS IS making changes, none are publicly released though. And although different platforms, HBW is still traditional.

The number is actually OVER 100k. Id even fathom between 110k and 125k based on recruiting and average turn over. And frankly, compared to other industries, Primerica’s turn over is LOWER than average.

And I would be more polite if I were dealing with people that deserved it. You admitted it yourself, you chose HBW because it was better for YOU, not what was better for your CLIENTS. I chose Primerica because it IS BETTER for my clients.

As for doing what is right, that means providing a plan to get out of debt, coaching the client to ENSURE they stick to it, proving protection while they build their nest egg with products that are not designed to screw them over, and providing retirement solutions that benefit the client and not the agent/company.

No matter how many ways you spin it, life insurance is ONLY meant to cover an unexpected loss of an income earner and final expenses associated with it WHILE building their retirement.

I don’t know about you, but I can build my business in any state I’m licensed in, just like you. Networking is not required.

Do you really want products from a part timer!!! Clients want a full time expert financial services individual not an individual who returns call during lunch time. That is just wrong!, who in their right mind would trust someone light that. I can just imagine… “Oh! I’ll call you back at 3pm during my break!!!!”

Joe, read your history on insurance books. That argument was squashed back in the early 70’s.

Your full time/part time status has NO bearing on quality of service. Your an idiot to think otherwise.

Having a part time agent has the benefit of the agent not needing the sale to eat that night and thus no pressure to sell a product that would be destructive. Much like all the whole life that was sold back then. A full time agent needs to make sales to eat and thus is pressured to either sell enough policies to eat, or sell crappier policies with higher commissions.

Clients want someone who cares and is honest. For the vast majority, an expert is not needed.

by: Answer This | June 29th, 2009 (10:29 pm)

Joe when the market is basically just a term plan and a side account it’s not that complicated. That’s the target market of PFS. Now going into other markets will take more knowledge and access to others expertise.

You imply I don’t deserve respect. Why is that? Because I don’t market with Primerica? You have just shown the world the effect of the Kool-Aid. I chose HBW because yes it serves me. I have Noooooo problem looking at myself in the mirror when offering clients solutions. I’m talking about Full Disclosure. It benefits me and it benefits my clients. This isn’t a hobby, it’s a business.

Richard you say:

” As for doing what is right, that means providing a plan to get out of debt, coaching the client to ENSURE they stick to it, proving protection while they build their nest egg with products that are not designed to screw them over, and providing retirement solutions that benefit the client and not the agent/company.”

***So your the only one doing that?

Next you say:

” No matter how many ways you spin it, life insurance is ONLY meant to cover an unexpected loss of an income earner and final expenses associated with it WHILE building their retirement.”

***Does this mean your reverting to a cash value argument again? Richard it’s over. Unless PFS goes independent and changes the agent agreement the company is going to lose agents. There’s no reason to be captive if just doing term sales and a side account.. Why be limited if out just to make some extra income. Especially with all the other products out in the industry to market?

You guys have no idea what your up against. Do you want a taste?
Come to the 21st Century. This is only the beginning.

AT, I don’t know if you deserve respect or not since I do not know you personally. However, I’m going to stop being so nice in my comments.

You admit you choose HBW because in benefits YOU. I choose Primerica because it benefits my CLIENTS. If it wasn’t for this nagging thought of doing what is right for them, I would be with any other company out there. As a company in the FS industry, Primerica IS the only one doing what is right (from all the companies I have looked at).

If we as an agent try to do something that is NOT beneficial to the client, home office sends it back for correction. They keep us in check by making sure we keep doing what is right.

At companies like HBW, WFG, and every other company I researched, that check and balance is NOT in place. The agent is solely responsible for making sure they do what is right. Meaning, the agent can freely screw over the client and the client not know it.

Frankly, I wouldn’t even want to be affiliated with ANY company that didn’t have those checks and balances.

I know exactly what I am up against. A bunch of worthless salesmen. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have families to save from the crap you are peddling.

by: Answer this | July 12th, 2009 (2:49 pm)

Richard first and formost who is the company loyal to? the client or the company? My research is from experience being inside Primerica and having other contracts with other carriers. Primerica is only concerend with their target market and they products they allow the independent contractors to market..Primerica is only concerend about their products. You bering up doing what’s right again. Doing what’s right by whom? Tell me exactly what you guys at Primerica can do that others can’t do. Side by side what makes you so special? Don’t revert to hype or the cash value thing. Many of us market Term most of the time. as for being a salesman, have you been taught how to close? You sell a product pure and simple.

As for you being nice or not it doen’t matter. Your products and contract are what they are. as for my choice of HBW it was because it benefits me and my clients. Is Primerica the only cmpany that does Buy Term Invest teh Difference? NO..Does PFS offer a disability product? Do agents have the freedom to do other lines of business if they so choose and they have the required license? NOOOOOOO who is the company kooking out for? If you a an agent have a client that Primerica Life will not cover what other options does Primerica Life offer the client. You see as independents we can go to companies the can give coverage for impaired risk.

Now for your comment about people at HBW just being sales people. Do you know for products life LTC, Disability, Fixed/Indexed annuities we do business with brokerages that have experts in those lines of products? As many can seee from this blog. i don’t have to revert to name calling and using colorful language to get my point across.

PFS is loyal to it’s clients and it’s agents. There have been many a times that the company has willingly given up profits because it was better for the client.

One case in particular, a client was given 5 months to live. The PFS policy he had was from before the terminal illness rider was standard on PFS policies. The policy was exchanged to one that had it. Rider was activated, and the client got the treatment he needed to survive. He still lives now because of what the agent and Primerica did.

How many of your companies would do that?

Would your companies willingly pay a death claim to a client when they died the day the application was signed (before even being mailed!)? That’s happened in my office.

Are you also aware that Primerica is about to offer Fixed Annuities? FA’s with a higher guarantee and no forced annuitization? How about electronic submission of securities applications? Or that PFS agents CAN offer health and disability insurance? Or that there are products being designed to cover the impaired risk? Even term to age 110? Exchangeable to other 10, 15, 30 yr LEVEL term policies?

Seems like from the time you were in PFS, you didn’t fully understand it or what you could do or what was coming. Not surprised though, you have already shown me the kind of person you are.

Are you aware instead of just calling an expert, I can have them COME to the clients house to talk to them about it?

I know where Primerica is going. And you better start preparing, because you have no idea what is about to hit the industry with a vengeance.

by: Answer this | July 12th, 2009 (11:30 pm)

Richard. You are talking about things I already have access to. As I have always said. To survive PFS will have to change. Also expect a name change in the near future.

There you go again getting personal. “Not surprised though, you have already shown me the kind of person you are.” I understood and understand PFS now. Your products will still cost more and higher fees to pay the field force. Yet of course you will come back with that lame value stuff. Why do you need a Term to 110 product? Don’t Primerica agents guide their clients to financial independence? LOL..Yea right..

See, I don’t think you do understand PFS now. I don’t think you ever really did. If you did, you would have known about some of the things I’ve already mentioned.

PFS IS changing, and Art and Bo are apart of that change. The new products will probably be a little more expensive, but not higher fees.

When MetLife cut the guaruntees on all their products, they left ours alone. They raised fees on all their products as well, ours, not so much. According to our Legg Mason contact, of all the IA/FA/VA’s he’s seen, none come close to what we have.

If bringing VALUE to a client is lame, heaven help you. You said that, not me.

Term to 110? People are living longer, need longer protection. Also allows for lowering premiums and doing a 30yr LVL exchange to ANOTHER 30 yr LVL.

And yes, our clients DO make it to financial independence. Just ask the THOUSANDS out of our office alone that have done that.

by: Answer this | July 13th, 2009 (8:55 am)

Richard I have been inside Primerica and outside of Primerica. You only see and know one side. why would people need longer protection? Remember your BTID and the theory of decreasing responsibility? What your saying is what we have been saying for a long time. Now just because Primerica tells you the same thing we the independents know notheing and your the experts.

All this time being captive with PFS they wouldn’t allow yopu to market the new products. Now all of a suden they are good for the client and you support them. What other markets are not allowed to enter because PFS won’t allow it? One day you will see it.

AT, I remember BTID and TODR quite well. As we see more and more people live passed 100, the possibility of having affordable insurance at later ages decreases. By allowing them to keep term coverage and the option of exchangeability to another level term WITHOUT medical, is priceless.

PFS has never told us we are the experts and that you guys know nothing. Neither have my uplines and trainers. But we do know that your companies can not compete on a level playing field. They know cash value is bad for people. They also know it is a cash cow and great for profits.

If that was not the case, then why after the FTC investigation of 79 came out did your companies push a law into place to prevent further investigation without permission? Why is it that some of your companies went begging for a hand out, only to pull back after realizing what the feds were going to do? Why is it that AIG’s future, the PRIME carrier for HBW, MORE uncertain that Primerica’s?

Why, if you have ownership from day one, can HBW move your team around at their discretion without even telling you? If yall are so much better with multiple carriers does HBW give you special recognition for selling 1000 AIG policies in a year? Not total policies, AIG policies.

The problem with being independent, you have a greater possibility of getting kick backs for selling a particular companies products. By being captive, you don’t. I may be biased towards Primerica, but at least Primerica isn’t bribing me to sell their products.

by: 2thebrainwashed | July 13th, 2009 (10:37 pm)

Wow, selling term to 100, fixed annuities. Are you referring to indexed annuities? Sounds like you guys aren’t doing what is right 100% of the time. Other companies have been selling these products for years. Isn’t term to 100 really a guaranteed UL policy(no lapse)?

You can go to about any insurance message board, and they have been countering with these products that you are mentioning. Sounds like Primerica is giving in to the competition. I don’t understand recognition for a 1000 policies in a year I would hope so, any company would give your recognition and some kind of bonus.

Term to age 100. What happen to invest in MF and after 20 or 30yrs cancel your term policy and you will a million dollars to retire on?

The truth Richard is that what you have be saying is BS now you have really dug yourself in a whole saying that your guys are going to sell these other products. Basically no faith in MF’s, term, and BTID.

by: Answer This | July 14th, 2009 (1:51 am)

Separate Citi from Primerica. Separate AIG from American General. Do you get it? You say you do what’s right by the client. Yet you can only offer what P.L says is best for the client. as an independent we as individual agents have the option of using many different carriers. We are not told which carrier to use. Sure HBW would like for us to use the flag ship carriers, but we don’t Have to. There is no requirement. As for your new products are they going to be inhous produicts or from an agreement with another carrier. If from another carrier will you market them? Here’s another tid bit. if from another carrier there’s a good chance we as independent will have access to the same product. With a 99.9% chance of better compensation.

Primerica doesn’t have to bribe you to sell their products. All you have is their products. Answer this. Can you get promoted without selling their term products? can you get promoted without recruiting? Sure no bribes. It’s more like being held hostage.

by: Answer this | July 15th, 2009 (12:35 am)

Due to the potential headaches that can come from telling the truth this is my last posting. I wish everyone the best. This doesn’t mean I won’t still be reading the post.

Hey Richard,
I’ve been reading this BLOG for 1 1/2 hours. My husband and I have been with Primerica for almost 3 years. I love your level headedness. If that’s a word! Keep up the good fight…If not for you, for the ones that stumble onto this BLOG. You by far outshine everyone else on here. I’m not trying to kiss up, as that would have no benefit to me. But to encourage you in the battle. We LOVE Primerica. It’s not a perfect company. There isn’t one. The RVP’s are not all Perfect. There isn’t anyone that is. But it is the most sincere and reputable company I’ve seen. I came out of the mortgage industry where the screw holes were huge. I’ve never seen a screw job inside Primerica. I’ve looked. Having a bad upline sucks! But the company has put everything in place for a new agent to get EXACTLY what they need to promote and be successful through POL even if their upline SUCKS!
One of many stories…My husband ran into a friend of his from Highschool. Of course what we do came up in the conversation. She’d been wanting to have someone look at her financial stuff for awhile. So I went to see if I could help her out.
She had bought life insurance 8 years ago through her car insurance “guy”. Woke up one morning in a fit of panic, pregnant, that they didn’t have life insurance.
Her “guy” asked her the next day how much they needed. She didn’t know. They calculated the need for $1,000,000 on her husband and $750,000 on her. They are contractors and had a lot of overhead, etc.
When I sat down with her, she couldn’t find her policies, but was sure she had the coverage she told me and that it was TERM with a savings attached. I asked her to get a copy of her policy, because it didn’t sound right and I could NOT beat the price on TERM 8 years later. (Which we usually do.)
She called the company, they gave her the run around, but eventually sent her a partial copy. (It’s not an actual policy, I forget what they call it.)
She was shaking when she came into the office with it. I told her to sit down, (Now pregnant with her second child) I didn’t want to deliver a baby right there!
She asked me to tell her it didn’t say what she thought it said.
The policy was hers. They wouldn’t send her her husbands. It was a VUL for $100,000 on her. She was horrified.
We called the company with her right then and there to see what she had on her husband. It was $150,000. To say she was pissed off is an understatement.
Being a woman maybe makes me more sensitive, but I know a pregnant mother would have known, for a fact, that a DECISION was MADE to CHOOSE less insurance than the $1,000,000 NECESSARY. She was not interested in the “savings plan” She told her “guy” that right up front. He MADE A DECISION to put them in a VUL instead of a TERM policy! That decision could have financially devastated that family. Thank God it didn’t.
We told her that her agent would call and try to convince her not to use Primerica. He did call her. Told her not to use a “part-timer”. She told him I was not “part-time”. And then proceeded to tell him that his decision could have financially devastated them. He told her that the policy was what they had decided on. NO WAY IN HELL! They had a $850,000 home that they owed $350,000 on. A BRAND NEW construction company with HUGE overhead. There was never a day that $150,000 VUL was right for that family. Oh it’s what they could afford on a monthly basis. But never the coverage they needed.
We fixed it. Period.
Could he have sold her a TERM policy? YES. Did he? No!
Our town is full of agents just like him.
Every week we see another screw job. It’s the amount of coverage that matters when someone is dead. When TERM is affordable and more coverage is given, the family thanks us for putting them in a better situation. Primerica does what’s right.
Keep fighting!

By the way, I picked up a WFG policy the other day and the agent had to write a disclaimer in the agent remarks as to why he HAD to sell the client TERM instead of a CashValue Policy. The client demanded to have term and he could not “convince” them otherwise.
It was unbelievable that he would have to write a disclaimer about having to sell them term because they wanted it…
Unbelievable. Got to protect your butt…
That agent had moved to several different companies. He had replaced their life insurance every single time he moved to a new company. I’m wondering…

Good job Jennifer. Did you write the million dollar policy?

That was AWESUM Jen!!! Good job in making a big difference! Proud of you! Wondering what AT has to say for that! lol!


by: Answer This | July 20th, 2009 (9:02 am)

OK Marc. Since you asked. If this individual story is true what’s the big deal. we both understand abuses do happen. We all run into them. Did you notice this quote from Jennifer? “I asked her to get a copy of her policy, because it didn’t sound right and I could NOT beat the price on TERM 8 years later. (Which we usually do.)” Without digging too deep into this is price not the driving motivation? Did Jennifer stress the need for a disability policy?

There term I think she is looking for is an in-force illustration. “They” are both contractors or just he/she is a contractor? If so did Jennifer consider if a perm. policy could be used for asset protection purposes? Did she consider a key man policy? Which might be a good candidate for a Return Of Premium term especially if the company would be making the payments. Should we go into the need for estate planning?

Also I didn’t know WFG had a policy..As for the disclaimer it was probably a CYA..Some people do get to end of term and for some reason they don’t remember being told the policy was for only for a certain duration. Just as Jennifer said, this stuff is going on all the time. Marc, I don’t have an issue with Primerica. They can do business as they so choose. Sure Jennifer came in and “helped” the client, but did she consider the whole picture?

What happens to the business once the policy reaches end of term? Will the couple/company self insure? Sometimes it’s easier to do a policy loan than to get one from a bank. What if the company needs a short infusion of cash and they are running on a tight cash flow later on down the years? Sure it sounds so simple but you have to pick the right tool to get the job done. Something to remember is Term will get to claim about 2-3% of the time or less. Businesses do get sued and things do happen. As they will have other needs for other insurance products which PFS may or may not have available currently get ready for some competition to come in and try to replace the policy when they consider other types of policies.

Basically without knowing the whole situation of the client there’s really no comment to be made. I will say this. Term is not the best product 100% of the time. Unless that’s all you sell. I guess it’s time for the cash value rants to begin.

by: buddy_rowee | July 24th, 2009 (11:36 am)

What a crock, I worked for Primerica for 4 months. Yea they paid to get my license, but actually wanted me to call people and set appointments. I found out that I was not into that, I need people to call me. And whats with the $25 per month web service virtual office fee. They told me that if I worked, I could own my own business. Whoever heard of a business owner having to pay a monthly $25 fee. I am now working for my uncle in his State Farm office. People call me. Much better arrangement. My uncle does not have any kids. He told me I was a natural and that in a few years he would bring me in as a partner, and someday maybe own the business. Thanks Primerica you showed me what I did not want to do.

by: MrPhillyMan | July 24th, 2009 (8:40 pm)

Hello All.
I am brand new to the ins. game. I joined PFS back in March at 1st opp. meeting. I thought it would be a great way to make money in my spare time, so I paid the fee on the spot. I’ve completed the 24hr class. I have passes the life exam and I have a state lic. PFS has not appointed me yet, but I think that will happen sometime next week. I had a wonderful time in Atlantic City last weekend. Before going to the opp. meeting I didn’t know anything about inc. I hope this turns out to me a life changing ex.

Please…or whatever man u r only been 4 months and ur dishing out your garbage…First foremost u use the word work..Primerica is not a job its a buisiness opp secondly PFS is made for everybody but not everyone is made for PFS! Well anyways do what u got to do on and hourly basis..and work paycheck to paycheck like evryone else! Good luck!

Hey MrPhillyMan, congrats on completing your first hurtle and getting licenced! Now the real change in your life will happen..helping others! Then you will feel good about what you will do for others and you will get back good things in your life..its good karma! GOOD LUCK in your PFS career! See you @ da BIG events and in POL! Hope to see your name and your business grow! God Bless!

by: MrPhillyMan | July 26th, 2009 (10:46 pm)

Mark C.
Thanks for the encouragemant. My approval letter was sent yesterday, so now I am an offical PFS rep., soon to be SRP by this Sat.

Hey there fellow Primerican your more than welcome! Just keep focusing on your next promotion and let your downlines do the same then you’ll be successfull in no time and forever change your family destiny..Good luck building your LEGACY! One of my new people just past the provincial exam too! She SUPER EXCITED!

Bless Bless!

by: On the Brink | July 29th, 2009 (12:50 am)

Well…. we are filing for divorce. He is furious that I won’t “partner” up with him in it. I am supporting him in his decision, and I’m letting him do what he wants with his life/career/job even though we’re losing everything- but it’s not enough for him. He talks about how “every one else’s wife is on their team!” and everything. I’ve had enough. If he’s going to walk away from a marraige for this “opportunity” then more power to him. To me it’s not a matter of who’s right/wrong, but how you go about deciding things as a couple. He is hell-bent on proving that he is “right”. It’s ludicrous. If my not wanting to join Primerica is going to make him walk away, then our relationship was never as good as I thought it really was. Oh well. His loss- my gain. I hope he can find someone that he wants to support him in the way he wants, and I’ll find someone that wants to work towards building a family/future together, not contingent on a certain job. Stupid me for staying this long.

by: Answer This | July 29th, 2009 (11:06 pm)

Hello “On The Brink”. I’m sorry to hear thinks didn’t work out. One thing PFS/ALW did say was God (whomever anyone worships), Family and then Business. In that order. Maybe it might help if your husband asked around if anyone had any of the old ALW books, like The A.L Williams Way. I’m sure if he talked to some of the old heads they might be able to set him straight. When I was at PFS I hear of others who had to take a part-time or even a full-time job until their business got going.

I myself hate to see any family torn apart. I wish you both the best. The business structure is designed to work your way up to full-time, especially is a person has never been in the industry. That’s why they require recruiting. Good luck to you both.

by: On the Brink | July 30th, 2009 (9:32 pm)

Answer This, thank you so much. I have been reading your posts for several months now, and you always seem to make a lot of sense, as well as as have wisdom and morals. I’d like to blame it on Primerica, and brand them a cult/gang/brain-washing company, but really, it’s my husband’s fault. He is truly guillable, and always has been- (I had to rescue him out of the Nouveu Riche thing a few years ago; and he was mad as he** at me for a couple months before he realized it was good we never did it) and I really think when he realizes what he lost this time, it will be too late. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise- because I am a very committed person, and maybe I would’ve never left him, and not realized how much better a partner/husband I could have. I’m expecting it to get harder emotionally before it gets easier- but I have to say, I’ve come across A LOT of stories of women who’s husbands/boyfriends have left them after joining Primerica. Craziness.

Maybe it takes a certain kind of brain-chemistry to stay at Primerica. I almost wonder if it’s people who have “addictive” personalities. I don’t know. I’m just noticing a trend, not really a good one- but I may not be totally far off. I just expected way more from my husband, but now I know. Now I can move on. :)

Maybe I should write a thank you note to them. :) “Dear Primerica- thank you for freeing me from this turd. If we hadn’t come across Primerica, I wouldn’t have known what a sucker for MLM’s he really is this early in our marriage- and I would’ve wasted the best years of my life with him. ~Sincerely, New-Found-Freedom”

Hey On The Brink, I deeply sorry about what happen to you both. Maybe you right he’s not the man for you and you deserve far better for putting up with him all these times. My parents are both in the buiness and although sumtimes they fight they always seem to keep it together..for more than 27 years now and going fact this business brought them and our family closer together cuz we have a common goal & dream.

There spending more time together sumtimes too…Neways I guess it s a per case thing cuz I have seen and met personally many couples that are doing well and are happier now more than ever. ONce again I wish all the best in your life, career, healt & more importantly love…God Bless you in your new found sense of freedom!

Take care of yourself, hope you find someone who will take care you well!

by: Answer this | August 2nd, 2009 (3:51 pm)

Here’s an announcement the Primericans may have missed.

You should know your “competition”.

AT, that is the “great” product AIG is giving you? Damn, that sucks. According to the article, it’s a variable life policy with a rider for continued income with the savings component being either an annuity or roth IRA.

Sounds like a traditional retirement account with life insurance as a rider. Bet I’ll be replacing that in the field in no time.

OTB, I wish you luck. Marriage is something that requires hard work from both partners to make work. I’ve come across the same stories of relationships breaking up over one being deeply involved in Primerica. I’ve also heard 10x more of relationships strengthening because of Primerica.

There is one in particular that comes to mind (actually, sounds a lot like what your going through), only they were dating and not married yet. The agent was still new, was invited up to speak. He screwed it up so horribly that everyone was basically feeling sorry for him. After that night, his girlfriend left him. Last he heard, she was living in a trailer park. He makes over $4m/yr now.

As with everything, there are 2 sides of the story. From what you are saying, it is probably better for the both of you that this happens. You can continue your life as you see fit, and he can go off and be the next Shane Rudman.


Did you uncle also tell you that State Farm is insolvent/border line insolvent in 2 states? Or that they are under investigation in Texas for over charging customers?

Second, if you couldn’t make Primerica work, chances are, when the real work comes at State Farm, you’ll fail there too.

You are a salesman, and no businessman. That sir, is your problem.


You can call it what you want. It’s just a term to 100+. That is NOT a UL.

My clients do become financial independent. Whether that is a Million, or 500k I don’t know. It’s different for each of them. I tell them each up front that once they retire, they have the choice of keeping the policy as is, lowering coverage, or dropping it all together.

I know that I have done what is right, and they do to. And when agents like you and AT and RR go to them, they show you the door, sometimes with a double barrel in your back. :)

You guys keep doing what you are doing, I’ll keep fixing it and keeping the business.

I will repost this from 6/2, its funny I did not get 1 reply from any PFS people.

It amazes me after looking at all these posts for the past few months how these new PFS agent get so mentally into ” we are better than you” mantality and think they can give a client a reasonable chance at giving them a financially sound plan, when you need years of experience to even think you are going to make millions in your first month. You start out by writting your close friends and family with small little products, you then grow with your clients, as they grow familes they need more coverage and products, as they get older, there needs change, you will not be rich overnight people, it doesnt happen that way. I have been in this industry for 30+ years, I have worker with New York Life my first 9 years and have been independent since. All products have a purpose, including permanenet, I had a healthy retired 63 year old come to me last month asking for life insurance. All she wanted was a policy she can pay so that if she passes today or in 40 years the policy will be there so that no one else will be burdened with the expense. She has no savings, no family left. Do you honestly think I would sell her term and invest the difference. All products have a purpose and all products lessen the finacial risk for someone else. I can just imagine walking into an auto dealership and the salesman telling me that they have only one car to sell and thats what I need. You cannot tell an individual, a family or a business what they need before you even know them, thats absurd!!! I just cant phathom how this way of doing business is being used these days.


>> PFS agent get so mentally into ” we are better than you” mantality

Although the agent may not be, overall, we are.

>> think they can give a client a reasonable chance at giving them a financially sound plan

I give them all the time. It’s financially sound, adjusts with the client, and is adaptable.

>> when you need years of experience to even think you are going to make millions in your first month

Who’s talking about making millions in their first month? I never was. And why are you more concerned about what you get instead of what the client gets?

>> All products have a purpose, including permanenet

You’re right. Most are meant to increase profits. WL is best for those that can’t qualify for any other type of coverage due to medical.

>> You cannot tell an individual, a family or a business what they need before you even know them,

I never do nor do any agents in my office.

>> just cant phathom how this way of doing business is being used these days.

Neither can I, but it is used everywhere. Ever been to Best Buy?

by: Answer this | August 2nd, 2009 (5:49 pm)

Richard it’s not a variable product.

“The Income Advantage Suite also offers the opportunity to save money for the future in a tax-deferred index annuity. Plus, when the index annuity is structured as a Roth IRA, the insured gets the added benefit of tax-free income in retirement. This packaged approach can provide the insured with cash accumulation for the future plus income advantage protection if he or she dies prematurely.”

Read the article. LOL as I always say, you guys just don’t know what you don’t know.

If you READ the article correctly it says VALUABLE, NOT VARIABLE.

“Income Advantage Suite is a unique concept in that it offers valuable life insurance protection – for both immediate cash needs and ongoing income –and an annuity or Roth IRA retirement savings component in one convenient package,” said Durr Sexton, senior vice president and chief sales and marketing officer at American General.”

Which also mean the program can be done with a Life license. Fixed Indexed products do not require a securities license. Buy Term And Save The Difference. Consider this. A potential client wants to cover their debt. Then they figure they having an income of say $2,000 a month would be nice. So in case of death, the lump sum would be paid to the beneficiary and for up to 40 years. They can receive a check for $2,000 month for whatever years they choose up to 40 years.. Bills paid and check for months.. Now would you like a quote? Contact a HBW agent. LOL.. Yea right you can replace what we have to offer. Get this there is no requirement to offer this program as a bundled product. LOL… The life product can be offered as a stand alone product….

You’re right AT. I misread the article. It’s not variable. Still, bundling of products has never been a great value for consumers.

Lets break this down shall we…

Life Insurance – Base Cost.
Additional Replacement Income – Added Cost.
Additional Savings component in Annuity (has own costs) or Roth IRA (has own costs) – Added Cost.

Hmm….I see a profit at the expense of quality. Granted, it is better than other cash value type products in that the savings is optional, it’s still a crap product due to additional fees for no real benefit.

I’ve replaced your products before, and I’ll keep doing it.

by: Answer This | August 2nd, 2009 (6:42 pm)

LOL,,How can you say it’s a crap product when you haven’t seen an illustration or a policy? I know your not talking about added fees…

by: 2thebrainwashed | August 4th, 2009 (12:26 am)


You posted this on July 13th,
“See, I don’t think you do understand PFS now. I don’t think you ever really did. If you did, you would have known about some of the things I’ve already mentioned.

PFS IS changing, and Art and Bo are apart of that change. The new products will probably be a little more expensive, but not higher fees.

When MetLife cut the guaruntees on all their products, they left ours alone. They raised fees on all their products as well, ours, not so much. According to our Legg Mason contact, of all the IA/FA/VA’s he’s seen, none come close to what we have.

If bringing VALUE to a client is lame, heaven help you. You said that, not me.

Term to 110? People are living longer, need longer protection. Also allows for lowering premiums and doing a 30yr LVL exchange to ANOTHER 30 yr LVL.

And yes, our clients DO make it to financial independence. Just ask the THOUSANDS out of our office alone that have done that.”

Richard they really have you screwed in the brains. Man think for yourself, be a leader that you can be.

PFS IS changing, and Art and Bo are apart of that change. The new products will probably be a little more expensive, but not higher fees. WTF, you’re okay with that we are not going to charge higher fees we will make the product more expensive.

When MetLife cut the guaruntees on all their products, they left ours alone. They raised fees on all their products as well, ours, not so much. According to our Legg Mason contact, of all the IA/FA/VA’s he’s seen, none come close to what we have.” Your company and higher ups can tell you guys anything and you go with it. 1st of all don’t you think something is wrong. Metlife has exclusive products for you guys, I guess 2 or 3 annuities that only you guys can sell. But you can’t sell the other VA’s that they have in their portfolio? Richard they tell you that what you have to offer is better than everyone else’s but only let you guys sell it. Yeah, that is a great business practice. Then again look how you are brainwashed. “They raised fees on all their products as well, ours, not so much.” and “According to our Legg Mason contact, of all the IA/FA/VA’s he’s seen, none come close to what we have.” Of course they make statements like that so that they can get you guys to push more products.

“And yes, our clients DO make it to financial independence. Just ask the THOUSANDS out of our office alone that have done that.” Here is a homework assignment for you Richard. How come on your website there is not one financially independent client on there. I am not talking about agents from your company clients only? What about brochures, do you guys have a financially independence club of clients on a brochure? Of course not. Have you guys had a financially independent clients come talk to you guys? Probably not they are like unicorns, sasquatch or leprechauns….they don’t exist.

Remember, all I’m offerring is the truth, nothing more

by: On the Brink | August 4th, 2009 (1:02 am)

Richard- Wow, I don’t think you can compare a marriage that has been several years long to a superficial boyfriend/girlfriend relationship that was only weeks long. And I bet if you were to talk to that girlfriend- she is not kicking herself that she isn’t still with Shane Rudman.

And the sad part is, it’s not me blowing HIM off, it’s him thinking that I’M the enemy, because that’s what he’s been conditioned to think. I support HIM. I’m working, paying all the bills, got a second car when our other one got reposessed, borrowed money from friends and family, several thousand dollars mind you, all in the name of supporting HIM, and he is choosing to walk away from ME. Because I won’t join his company. That’s what Primerica can do for you- it can cause you to misinterpret your spouse, and accuse them of being negative when all they have done is help you out the whole time. But just because you don’t partner up, well, you’re negative. They condition you to think you are not being supportive, and that you need to be eliminated.

I actually did blow off a boyfriend in college who makes several hundred thousand a year now, and I’m not regretting that that didn’t work out. And I won’t regret that this isn’t going to work out either- any guy who puts his job first ahead of a family has his priorities screwed up.

So yes, there are two sides of the story, but there is also the ugly side of greed, lust, pavlov-conditioning techniques, addictive personalities, and broken dreams.

I really think if there were a study made of the relationship status of guys who do Primerica, it would be very different than the “10x more relationships strengthened because of Primerica.” Those “10x more” end up being separated/divorced later down the road. Trust me, just in my little area, I can contact several women who have been in the same boat as me with Primerica. I’ve only found this out once I started telling people why I’m getting divorced, and started getting sympathetic emails/calls from women I have never known, from friends of friends, whose husbands worked for Primerica. Good for people who are still together and who actually have been strengthened-but I really don’t think it’s the norm.

The length of a relationship has no bearings on the quality of the relationship. I know a couple who have been married for over 30 years that knew each other 3 days before getting married. Then I have known couples who were childhood friends that didn’t last 2 months.

And I’m willing to bet that if she knew what Shane Rudman has done, and where he is going, she would be kicking herself.

He has NOT been conditioned to think you are the enemy. You have financially supported him, but from what it appears, not emotionally supported him. Don’t get me wrong, he dropped the ball as well by not helping with the finances, there is no excuse for that.

Becoming a partner in Primerica does NOT mean you must become an agent. The partners organization was built specifically to take care of the partners. Provide insight and help from those that have had success to help cope with the crazy hours and near frantic moods. For any business he tried to build, it was as much yours as it was his.

I’m sure by now you have heard the news about Kelly Hilderbrandt? The couple who got married after finding each other on Facebook? Well, here is another side to that story.…-kelly-hildebrandt/

Out of my office alone you will find between 100 and 150 couples that all say there relationship has STRENGTHENED because of Primerica.

Yes, there are horror stories. But every single one I have heard and read are usually attributed to a spouse who refused to get involved and take ownership of the business the agent was trying to build.

My wife thought exactly how you do when I first started Primerica 8+ years ago. We were ready to divorce TWICE over it. She then got involved in the Partners organization and asked questions. After the first few meetings, she pulled out a 2×4 and beat my ass till I went to work and made it happen. Since then, we have never been happier.

Bottom line, you have both failed each other in some respect. He has tried to make amends by including you in what he is doing and you quit him. You will be better off without him, and assuming he succeeds, he will be far better off with someone who will emotionally support him.

I wish you both luck. Just try to see the whole picture and not just what you want to see.

by: On the Brink | August 5th, 2009 (3:37 am)

Richard- You are right, the length of a relationship doesn’t determine the quality- but the type of relationship does. Making committments and vows are very different than just a kissy-kissy girfriend/boyfriend relationship. This isn’t just any boyfriend I’m talking about, this is my husband of over 5 years. What we’ve already been through and worked through together has surpassed what would’ve broken many couples.

I’m sorry, but you are not a marriage counselor, pastor, or therapist- you do not have the qualifications to tell me that “you emotionally failed him.” You have no idea how many meetings I have been to, PARTNER meetings I’ve been to, how many speeches I’ve helped him with (that’s right, I have) how many referrals I’ve made, how many people I’ve talked to- and how it’s been twisted against me, because I am not interested in getting my license.

Don’t you dare lecture me on something that you have no qualifications besides the comparison of your own marriage to what I’ve typed in this forum. And in your own marriage, you can’t say “My wife thought exactly like you” because I’m not your wife, and I probably don’t think like her. I wasn’t giving up on my husband. Of the supposed “100-150” couples that are in your office, you have no idea the quality of the relationships outside of what you superficially see in the office; you don’t know what goes on in the walls of those individual homes, or what is said beyond what they present to others.

I appreciate your limited perspective, but that is all it is, limited.

I appreciate Mark C. and others for wishing me the best of luck -without trying to make judgements or assumptions on something that is way out of your qualifications and profession to judge or assume.

Richard, please don’t respond to this post again- unless you intend to bring Dr. Phil or someone more qualified (since Dr. Phil isn’t even a licensed therapist) to give me objective advice, which anything really would be a step up from the very subjective and biased advice you are trying to give.

by: Answer This | August 16th, 2009 (12:52 pm)

Did you Primericans know about this site?

Wow!!! I guess the MLM company to be part of is Amway or For Ever Living Products. Not much growth for Partylite and Priamerica.

I check it out and yall forgot to add the “Disclaimer”:

“The ranking

We are working on a list to rank the MLM 500 companies annual revenue. If you consider an opportunity the size and growth of a company are important facts. The companies in our rankings have a full or partial Multi Level Marketing-, Party Plan- or Direct Selling compensation plan. The revenue for private companies is *estimated.


“The information contained in this website is for general information purposes only. While we endeavour to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the website or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained on the website for any purpose.”

hahaha I see why! Not to accurate and DONT FORGET TO READ THE DISCLAIMER AT THE TOP AND BOTTOM OF THE PAGE FOLKS! So that you dont base your decision on that site!

Knowldege is power!


by: Answer This | August 16th, 2009 (5:03 pm)

I just posted the link because I thought it was kind of eye opening about MLM in general. It wasn’t meant to be a shot at PFS in any shape or form. Someone sent me the link and I thought it was kind of eye opening and I shared it..Never get emotional about a company you don’t own..

Hey do i sound like i got emotional? Not even close and I hope your speaking to people in general not to me cuz my comment was wat I read when i chkt out your link! And did I say that your where insulting PFS.. i dont think so man, so dont wurrie thanks for the link. Good advice you saying to all the new and old people here “Never get emotional about a company you don’t own..” but I wonder…people do that every single day at their day jobs…wonder if thats a coincidence of simply life? Neways that was my food for thought!


Joe why dont you join Amway or For Ever Living Products den then come come and tell me how it goes after you make the millions of dollars. By the way their both private companies and I quote: “The revenue for private companies is *estimated.” so at least Primerica is a Publicly shared company and maintains its Revenues of $2,200,000,000 in 2007 and 2008 of $2,200,000,000, yes folks dats 2.2billion dollars in thats profitability and very low overheads and start up cost!

Also its ranking is in the top 10 which show thats its defenitely a GREAT Business Opportunity to get into! Oh and it seem that Primerica is the Top Financial Services Business on the top of the list of 500 MLM Companies! Where are all the others??? Like We all said before Salesman or Business Owner? Only You can make that decision!


by: Answer This | August 17th, 2009 (10:33 pm)

Mark C. you still don’t get it. There’s a difference between Primerica and the products. There’s a difference between Primerica and the agent agreement. There’s a difference between being an employee of Primerica and an independent contractor. Primerica is just a platform. A captive one at that. You signed an agreement to offer their products. That’s it…If you look at your agent agreement they will tell you all of this..

As far as the salesman and business owner thing goes, no one gets paid unless something is sold, and if you left PFS right now what could you take with you? You may not see it, but yes you do have an emotional tie to PFS…I see it, because it once had it..

Answer This, you are the one who will never get it. You are the one it seems who is tied down to HBW. By the ways I dont see there name on the list or WFG…I wonder?

Also, why would I leave Primerica?? It’s an awesum business opportunity, it help my family and its has a good mission statement to help families and make a difference in their lives! Why give up a passive income worth millions in the long term and go somewhere else were the contract are not even as close to GOOD as Primerica’s? Check you link you posted, Primerica is making Huge revenues!! Thus mean that people who are doing the business are making good money weither part-time or full-time! It’s your link you posted go back and check it out!

How about Avon/For Ever Living Products/Mary Kay..If you left those business what could you take with you?? Why leave such good income and opportunities??

If you leave then you leave and you can sell your business 8 to 10 times what your make a year to another PFS rep who will gladly buy it off of you to expand their business!

Theirs nothing wrong with being emotional sumtimes. You should try it sumtime so that you know what it means to be human. We’re are not all made perfect. That’s goes for any business so why whine about it over and over again..Oh yeah your not perfect either..I almost forgot! Welcome to humanity man!

by: Answer This | August 18th, 2009 (12:34 pm)

Mark HBW does not have me tied down. HBW is not the only marketing organization I use and get this. I am also contracted directly with a carrier. You can’t say in one instance the numbers are factual and then in the next say they can’t be verified.

Mark says “If you leave then you leave and you can sell your business 8 to 10 times what your make a year to another PFS rep who will gladly buy it off of you to expand their business!”

***Is this option available for all reps. from day 1?

Mark can you verify your statements per contract or do we just have to take your word for it? Anything I say about HBW can be verified by the corp. web site..Get this you can even go to the site and get rate quotes..Yes even you..just go to “Business Pipeline” and follow the links..More carriers are coming.. For a new recruit looking at the opportunity or across the kitchen table for a client how can you compete? It’s rah, rah time.

Hey buddy its your link you posted so dont pin it down on me. As for being tied down to HBW i was only pulling your leg..jst getting sum emotions from you lol..jst kidding bro take it east hehe!

Neway u cant compare us together cuz we’re in totaly different business and point of view and lets leave it at that okay I respect your POV and your definition of whats a business.

I know you need to get an RVP contract level to do the selling. Its only natural to aspire and climb to your ways up the ladder to get a better contract and pay level so its only natural to fullfill the promotion guidelines and earn your position if you really deserve it or not just like on the corp. world.

I dont see nothing wrong with that! So does most workers working a JOB. Nobody stays a new recruit forever ..nobody wants to stay at the bottom of the pool. People always want to move up in life! Why focus on the bottom when you can climb your way to the top right!

HOOORAH! and a lil’ bit HEEEYAAA :p

by: Answer This | August 19th, 2009 (11:33 pm)

Mark I like you. You even have a personality. LOL..Let me say this. Business to business where your at is done. Unless some major changes are made it’s over. There’s a new sheriff in town. No hype. Just facts..If you only knew.

Well thanks buddy you gotta gave sum or else the world would be a boring place :p. I will take my chances with this great company because I believe in what they stand for and what their doing everyday for the past 32 years to give people an opportunity to change their lives and to make an impact in people lives! I will see you in the battle field! Good luck to you and your team!

Ceeya laters,cheers!

Hi Everyone,

I’ve been following this forum for quite a while now. I was first introduced to Primerica a few years ago. My brother tried to get into it but wasn’t achieving results after 3 months so he quit. Last year a friend tried to recruit me. I had just started another job so I wanted to see how that opportunity would pan out before I looked at other opportunities.

Here I am a year later. My friend who tried to introduce me to it last year is no longer with Primerica. Seeing my brother and friend leave before they achieved results should have turned me away but I’m an extremely hard working and dedicated person. I just hadn’t found the right fit for me.

An old boss and mentor recently got started and contacted me about the chance for something new. I met with Rod Norville for a second time and was extremely impressed. I went to my first OP night yesterday and was filled with mixed emotions. I met Ray for the first time and all I have to say is wow. That man’s vision is incredible.

This seems like a great business opportunity, but it takes the right type of person at the right time in their life to do it. I’m fairly young (only 23) and have been involved in marketing and sales for other industries for 3 years. I have yet to come across an opportunity quite like this one.

For anyone following this blog I’ll keep you updated with my success

by: Answer This | August 20th, 2009 (5:48 pm)

BFA if you want success at PFS, don’t think about the right type of person. Recruit, recruit and recruit some more. Work the numbers.

“I have yet to come across an opportunity quite like this one. ”

**I’m not going to bite.

AT I agree that recruiting is important, it’s importan in with Primerica as it ist in any business.

But I’m not the type of person who would bring on anyone with a pulse. It’s growing a business, finding the right people to make things work. Maybe my views are out of whack because I’m just getting started but it seems like this is a good opportunity.

I can tell that you aren’t a huge Primerica fan. In your personal opinion, what do you think is the better choice?

Hey BFA, I have seen Rob and Ray they are truly awesum human beings and great leaders! They have and incredible relationship towards their teammates, friends and family! There are one of the top baseshops in North America so you can be proud that your a part of their amazing Team! On behalf of my team and I, I wish you all the success and blessings to you and your team your trying to build! Good Luck! Dont ever give up on your hopes and dreams..jsut keeping fighting for it until you make it happen for you and your family!

P.S I started close to your age and have tasted success and still want more and BIGGER! I have also grown as a person and still growing as a leader to my Team, friends and family! I support them and they support me! One thing that kept me from failing is my desire to WIN badly and WIN BIG..and I have clear purpose and thats to NEVER GIVE UP NO MATTER WHAT!

Hope that helps buddy! See your name on the bulleting bord and on your next Company Trips! LOL!

God Bless!

BFA, follow Rod and Ray and they will take you to where most people only dream of getting….

Careful who you listen to as well…

One more thing people, stop being a PFS internet crusader and start becoming a PFS DO’R! Lol… let these jokers sit at home in their boxers & type all they want about the company… there’s no doubt in my mind that for the ‘right’ person, PFS is where they can accomplish whatever they set out to do.

by: Answer This | August 21st, 2009 (5:45 pm)

BFA it’s not that I’m not a fan of PFS. PFS is a business just like any other business. It’s that us against the world attitude agents have. As many agents get their start at PFS they are only given the PFS side to the industry and they take the hype hook line and sinker.

To be honest I don’t know too much about the opportunities in Canada, but to get big in PFS you have to become a recruiting machine. Ask your recruiter about building wide and deep. Ask them the difference between recruiting to sell and selling to recruit. Don’t try an reinvent the wheel.. My limited advice is go into it as a business venture because at the end of the day to PFS or any organization it’s business. Why do you think they have you sign a contract? It’s not to protect you.

So get out there and recruit, recruit, recruit… As for my personal choice, the contract and products dictate. I started out at PFS and at some point it wasn’t for me. PFS might be just the place for you as it is with Mark and Richard. Even though I will try to get the PFS people riled up, I do wish everyone success however you define success.

by: RRodriguez | August 22nd, 2009 (10:32 am)

I guess ignorance is bliss for some.
Sir in a recruiting company like that one recruiting is not just important. It is the only thing to do. Specially when the services are not really top of the line and the agents are not that well informed. Go ahead and go to a part time dentist/plumber.

Mark oh I thought by now you would have seen the light. The reason why you don’t see any other company in the lists you point out is because independent agencies are not owned by their carriers (a bit of a conflict there). You cannot really be that ignorant can you? But if you look up the individual insurers you will see each and every one of them at relative or even higher levels.
Never give up what? the gerbil wheel?
Those awesome human beings love awesome drones like you guys. I don’t know why Answer this tries so hard to open your eyes. Look at your contract and if you are gullible enough to sign something like that after reading it then it is no wonder why they are so nice to their cash cows.
I still say show me a single product there I cannot beat. Show me a single concept there worth my attention and it never shows up.
All I see is emotional talk but never a comparison of the things that really matter like what you deliver to both your agents or clients.
Talk about the components of your opportunity. Talk about your networking, talk about your carrier portfolio, talk about how you can be objective with one carrier… Talk about the advantages or disadvantages of your product, talk to me about your training concepts other than recruit, recruit and recruit… Hard to do?
Being loud, cheerioo and excited does not make you right.
Win what? a trip where they work you to death?
Oh yeah I have been to those. I mean those you are talking about. I was there long ago and I saw the light. I also know what a real trip is now.
A lot of misinterpreted quotes won’t get you there… Now tell me why someone should by your term over any others?
Tell me why your products deserve attention and forget the hype. Answer this you know better than to engage into thier subjective programming. You know they cannot beat anything you have access to. I know that company and you are independent so just let them wake up.

by: Answer This | August 22nd, 2009 (12:15 pm)

RR..LOL.. Yes I know. When I come across people like Richard and Mark if there is a way for me to help them system wise I have no problem with that. As for the products I hope people reading this blog will do their homework from the information posted.

Mark and Richard and other Primericans who read this blog understand. When a company builds you up like Primerica does the loyalty runs deep.To many it will go beyond their own self business interest. I lived it.. So the way I see it at some point they will look in the mirror or see something that will make them go hmmmmm because the more they read, the more they will think or investigate to prove me wrong. They can’t refute facts.

Here’s what I see. One day they will hear about an agent delivering a death claim and run some numbers. How much more could that beneficiary have received if the coverage was shopped? Then they will think about the saying, “We do what’s tight 100% of the time”. Now once the do some research the phrase won’t sound so right 100% of the time… Then they will consider their own program and what they may have sold to family and friends.

As I always say to PFS reps. The best way to stay in PFS is to stay from message boards. Something else to consider in my opinion PFS isn’t about the products. When Sandy aquired them it was about distribution. With the reported potential sale of PFS it was about the sales force. Facts don’t lie.

RR & AT, like i said b4 man you guys are getting old you like a broken record…over and over and over again! Why r u trying to push down people when I and we in Primerica are trying to encourage new people just starting in the business and you RR just like to squash there hopes and dreams even before they start and even taste succeess, but sharing you experience which doesn’t guarantee or dictate their experience and success of these new people who are trying to do this business opportunity!

So keep yatayatayata and say what you have to say and we will see who will be the victor in the end! How many years u have been in the business RR and AT?? I wonder?

Primerica may as you say not sell the best products but who else in the industry..what company or sales forces are doing more business and helping more people than PRIMERICA???

Who is selling more Term insurance and teaching their clients to invest the difference or savings they save on their Universal Life or Whole life policies?

So please dont give me that BS and get on with you lives and do what you say your better at and show me really how many people you help change their lives and made a difference? Why everytime I go to and appointment they have 99% have UL or WL? Were area the people who have term plan and are investing for their retirement? Where are their financial games plans to help guide them to their Financial Goals and Freedom when they retire? I dont see none of what your saying that ” there are many more other carriers of companies that have better products to offer to their clients..and have better commission structure? Okay they may have better products but if they dont offer it or sell it as much then that is USELESS to brag about! If your “Ultra better producst” never get sold of the shelves then whats the point!

Y’all just been served!

AT, as with any company there are things that I really like about Primerica and things that I’m not too sure about.

I’ve done a lot of homework when it comes down to rates, looking at term rates for individuals on and as well as talking to other insurance and investment companies. In some cases Primerica was the best choice and in other cases it wasn’t.

I have noticed that they focus a lot on recruiting. But it’s all about building a team right? The same can be said about a lot of other companies out there. From a personal perspective I would rather help families first and then recruit 2nd.

I read through the IBA with a fine tooth comb and there were some things that I questioned. I’m looking at this as an opportunity to meet new people and help people out. I can’t say if it’s going to be long term for me yet because I’m just getting into it. I appreciate that you have a difference of opinion on the subject and are open minded to argument. How long have you been in the industry for?

by: Answer This | August 24th, 2009 (1:25 pm)

BFA I have been in the industry for many years. I started out at Primerica. So I do have a limited knowledge of how their system works. As an independent agent I constantly have to do homework on different carriers and their products. It’s an ongoing thing.

As for company alternative I don’t really know what’s available in Canada so I won’t comment on that because I wouldn’t want to mislead you. Are agents allowed to be part-time in Canada?

Let me say this. To be successful (Make the big bucks) at PFS you have to recruit. That’s where your sales will come from. You recruit to sell products. Is that a bad marketing concept? No it isn’t but for the person who wish to just personally produce they won’t advance unless their RVP decides to just advance them without meeting the guidelines. from what I understand agents can not advance in commission by personal production. At one time RVP’s could do that. I don’t know if they still can. Maybe Mark C. can verify if they can still do it. As for the recruiting aspect sure many companies do it. I do it. The point against recruiting at PFS for me is the contract weighs more toward the company. The argument can be yes other companies do it, but as an independent contractor I don’t have to agree with their contract. I have to do what’s in my best interest as a business person. Just because others do something doesn’t make it right or the standard.

Consider this. Who does the recruiting? Who does the training? Who gets the clients? Who services the clients? who builds the team? Who motivates and trains the team? Whose time and efforts are devoted to that team? Yours.. Now per contract after all that time and effort has been spent, if you leave what can you take with you from all your hard work? You have built a business for whom?

So in the big picture does the RVP or the company care if an agent quits? No..Look at what they have left behind per contract. Mark C. above has commented on the company numbers. Yes they are impressive, but consider the recruiting numbers. Many people have and are going through the company. That’s a huge warm market to have access to. They are recruiting in big numbers, but the number of agents hover around 100K annually. In the A.L. Williams days they were over 200,000 agents strong. So after all this time where are the financially independent people they have produced? At some point beyond the hype we have to say hmmmm.

Per contract if an agent decides to leave it’s basically starting over again. For the person who just stops doing the business it may not be an issue because they may not understand renewal commissions. But for the person who is moving on in the industry they won’t find out how important their client list is until they are outside of PFS.

Myself I don’t blame PFS, they don’t twist anyone’s arm to contract with them and they should design a contract that’s in their best interest just as we as individual business people should consider a contact that in our best interest. It should be a win, win situation for both parties.

Here is a place you can go to for information about opportunities in Canada.

The site owner seems fair and upfront. As for my experience I have been in the industry for many years. I have been in long enough to understand to not believe in hype. If you feel PFS is a good fit for you go for it. Just make it a business decision rather than a hype decision. Back in the day PFS basically had on other competition. Well those days are over…

Try this. Pretend you sold your first PFS client a product and recruited them min the business. Now act like you want to leave PFS and go somewhere else. Per contract what are your options with your team and your client? That’s part of the business side between the agent and the company. No matter what you may read you are your business and it’s your life. Don’t take my word for anything..

It is possible to make some good money at PFS, just understand the business going in and coming out. It’s sales. Recruit to sell products and sell hype to keep your team recruiting.

As always if anything I post is false I encourage the pro Primericans to correct me. Here’s the bottom line. for a new person just getting in the industry everyone starts somewhere. financial service can be a very profitable industry to be in. PFS has a system that makes it very simple, but as with everything nothing is free. Mark, Richard and other Primericans who read this blog know how their products compete within the industry.

For years ALW/PFS attacked the industry over cash value and were very bold about it. Well now we notice when they are confronted face to face with similar business model, term to term, and contact to contract they retreat. Then when they do come back it hype giving the impression that they are part of the company when they are independent contractors. Sorry about the long post, but i’m doing a few things at a time and I lose my train of thought for a moment..

by: Wheres My Money | August 24th, 2009 (8:34 pm)

This was posted by RRodriguez Feb. 9, 2009
Ok then to add insult to injury life commissions are capped at $1500 no matter the size of a policy (I am not talking about an advance cap either). I am saying if you sell a 7 million face value term policy the comp is no higher than $1500

This was posted by Richard Feb. 9, 2009
$1500 Cap on credit – Made to level the playing field across the board. Some places have historically high life insurance policies while others do not. That cap gives everyone a shot to compete for what ever the company has going on.

My point is, Im with PFS & I did a transaction, not too long ago were my client pays a $2582 premium. I am on a 25% contract. I was paid 12.5%, half my commission because my RVP was there. Now that I don’t have a problem with. My problem is… why again was I only paid on half of $1500 and not $2582? Where is my commision for half of the other $1082. I asked my RVP and I didn’t get a great answer. I’m not going to repeat what I was told, because I want to see if I get the same, or a simular answers to what my RVP “kinda” thought. If anyone from PFS can better help me, please do. So far, I love the company for giving me the opportunity. I know if they would have not “recruited” me, (said the right things) I would not be a licensed producer now, and making REAL extra income, not like a McDonalds extra income, with plans to “one day” quit the J.O.B. and produce full-time, in or out of Primerica.

Anyone can comment, but I would like PFS to enlighten me on my commissions question.


Since your RVP did it as a split sale (why on earth he did that I don’t know), things are different than a regular straight up sale.

Note: In our group, split sale’s don’t happen unless you are not in my downline. or you are division or above. Each group is different.

Being licensed, you will receive $1291 for production credit instead of the $1500 you would have gotten as a straight sale (again, this is just production credit).

Given the amount of premium, I gather the face amount is over $500k?

As a protection from large charge backs to you, the company advances the first 9 months based on a max of 500k in face amount (Capped at $750 below RVP and $1k for RVP). This is partially since the conditional coverage is capped at $500k/person.

Once the policy is issued, it pays out the remainder of what is owed on an as earned basis.

You DO receive the full commission for it, but in cases like this, it will just take a year to get it.

The only other things that play a factor are the term length and their age at issue.

As for your RVP, he got the split sale at his contract + the override + the bonus (if bonus-able). Hence why I don’t know why he did it as a split when you are on a REP contract.

The reason I mention what your RVP made is you should always know what your up lines make off of your work. It’ll do one of 2 things. Motivate you to get promoted faster (so they make less and less on individual sales), or piss you off. I’d suggest getting promoted, especially with what I KNOW is coming for this company. Hence why I’ve been so quite.

@RR and AT,

You guys really sicken me. You THINK you know how PFS works, yet you keep failing. You guys stay where you are at. You need to be salesmen and work on your skills. You can get promoted in PFS without recruiting, so long as the RVP agrees to it.

I know how my products compete, and I know how your products compete. Your companies are raising rates, mine is not. Your companies are cutting benefits to clients, mine aren’t. Your companies are still trying to find a way to compete AND make a profit, I am on a crusade to prevent families going through what I went through. And that means taking each of your companies down.

BTW, AT, that link to LSM Insurance, he isn’t fair and upfront. I’ve had a talk with him. Every time truth came out, he censored it. If it attached Primerica, he let it go, if it defended Primerica, he didn’t. The whole point of that blog is SOLELY to generate business for him.

And I am sure it will bring great joy to both of you to know that, Primerica as you think you know it, will probably soon be a memory. :)

Well Said Rich! Lets let this these 2 “Who Think’s they know it all” think their have the advantage and think they are gona have a chance to win.. and will see in the near future who will be out of business! I wish them good luck still!

The Crusades Burns Strong @ PFS..
Let the nay-sayers keep talking…..
We Primericans will take them all down…
One at the time!


How in the name can anyone justify the commssion “WMM” lost.
A $2582 yearly premium term products comes out to a minimum $2324 commission with any independant carrier. Wow!!! 12.5%…. anywhere else it would be 90% an above. That is just downright sick. If you dont want all your commissins upfront then get them paid as earned that way you dont have a chargeback when cancelled early. This guy lost tons of money on this one sale. He lost a monthly house payment or nice weekend getaway…Geeesh!!!

Joe, you are a traditional agent. How do I know? You only give out the information that proves your point and not ALL the facts.

Average 1st year commissions are between 50% and 90%. Not 90%+.

All the facts are that we give the same service as we all pointed out in these blogs… We all provide the best possible solution to any family, individual or business risks. We are all proffessionals in what we do. The only diffrence is our pay structure and I will take mine as I have for the past 25 plus years over a 12.5% split with my upline pay structure.


Sorry Joe, that is not the case. If it was, then all my clients who used to be with “professionals” like yourself would not have left them so willingly.

EVERY time I have met with a client from an agent like you or RR, they have had glaring holes in their plans. You can not say we provide the same service when they can’t get their old agents on the phone at 7p at night to answer a question or at 2a to file a death claim.

This is the problem with the industry, or rather one of many. Agents like you have no real idea what Primerica does. You claim you do, but sadly you don’t. You attack Primerica on pay, products, structure, anything you can instead of going head to head with facts about real service.

Half of my clients came from agents like you. The other half, agents like you wouldn’t give them the time of day to.

Unlike you, I educate first and let my clients decide. What ever policies they have, I break it down for them IN FRONT OF THEM and SHOW them the good and bad of it. When I delivery my policies, I do the same with mine and let them decide if they want to keep it.

You keep doing what you are doing. There are changes in the wind and new regulations coming. Those regulations don’t affect Primerica.

You, ass whole, keep it up. Head to head, you can’t compete with a crusader.

Ohh okay, then I should be going out of business pretty soon. Thats funny!! Lets see I have 8 people in my staff. Hmmm I guess you are right… at 7pm my staff will answer that… if it cant be handled then first thing next morning I will take care of it, not unless im on vacation which during July and August Im on vacation alot. If its really imprtant my cell phone can reach me anywhere… even in Aruba when I was there in July. Lets see in my career I have handed 6 death claim checks, how many have you handed out. I have a very productive and professional office. Anyone want to buy my book of business… its on sale for $800,000… thats the only way I will go out of business. Boy thats alot of 12.5% policies.

You say you have better service and your staff takes care of screening the calls? That’s funny.

Admittedly we all need personal time, but your clients well being, especially for cases like death claims, aren’t important enough to you to handle it personally and efficiently?

6 death claims in about 25 years, that’s below average in my office. Me personally, none. And i Hope it’s a long way off before I do. However, if it happens, my clients have my direct lines no matter WHERE I am, they can reach me and not my assistant.

And after 25 years, your book of business is ONLY worth $800k? Damn. Brandon Neil, 8 years in, has a book work about $10 Million.

If it”s on sale, when I get the time, I’ll buy it from you and treat them all right. Since they will have my DIRECT line, I’m sure the service will be 10x better.

You actuallly think I was going to tell you what my actual book of business is, dont think so!!! Sorry my book of business is going to my son and daughter. I want to make sure my clients are being taken care of. Gots to go back in the pool!!

by: Answer This | August 25th, 2009 (1:02 pm)

Richard says ” You attack Primerica on pay, products, structure, anything you can instead of going head to head with facts about real service.”

***The facts are in the contracts. As for service anyone can say anything.
In my opinion anyone looking at PFS as a business opportunity or any business venture should consider pay, products and structure. As an independent contractor you don’t think those subjects are important?
Can you say HEYYYYYYYY Koool—AIDDDDD..Drink up.


I stand behind what I say. EVERY client gets my personal cell number AND home number. I make sure that if they need something, they can get to me instead of a getting 2nd rate service from someone I hired to screen calls.

As an independent contractor, I DO understand those subjects quite well. I’ll take a pay cut for better products and structure.

And the facts are what happens to the clients, not the contracts. I don’t know what kool-aid your drinking or if it’s laced with Jack Daniels or cocaine, but my clients become financially independent. ALL of my clients.

And I don’t lose any of them to the scum/scam artists such as you, RR, and Joe (And especially TTBW).

I understand that you give a great service to your clients but you can’t assume that the 110,000 Primerica agents are doing exactly the same thing as you. Great advisors can be found at any companies; good or bad. I actually work with an insurance broker and he suggests term insurance 90% of the time. He gets the best rate in town since he is a broker and offers a great service to his clients. And nope, he is not working with PFS 😉

I guess that most brokers have the opportunity to offer a great service. Unfortunately a lot of them don’t… no matter where they work!

TFB, I never have assumed the other agents give as good as me. Some do it better. And I do know great people can be found at many companies.

However, comparing policies are price is a bad move. Many can agree with that. And I’ve never said Primerica is always the lowest. However, most of the companies that do beet PFS on pricing, are raising their rates due to paying more and more death claims and commissions and not being able to secure more debt to pay them. PFS is debt free, most carriers are not.

Would you rather be associated with a company that lowers prices JUST to get clients, with little to nothing to back up it’s promises?

by: Answer This | August 25th, 2009 (1:51 pm)

Richard why so hostile? Mark notice the class of TFB. Richard uses strong language and Insults our business practices. Next to top it off he singles out the board host. Yet TFB comes back cool, calm and collective. Never get emotional about business..Have passion, but don;t get emotional. It can cloud judgment.

Now you see AT, there you go like most other traditional scam artists..I mean agents. Twisting words to suit you. Are all traditional agents bad? No. Just the ones that twist the words. I’ve met too many to say it’s not the norm.

I’ve never been hostile towards TFB. At least to my knowledge. I would hope the conversations him and I have had off the board would account for something.

And frankly AT, my business is an integral part of my life, damn straight I’m going to get emotional. And frankly AT, I’d use the same language face to face, even in front of a client. It may not be professional, but I’m not going to stand idelly by and let them get screwed over by the likes of you.


I must admit we don’t have this fear on this side of the frontiere; the gov is insuring all insurance company so you will get paid anyway 😉 they simply shift the policy to another one if there is any bankruptcy. The dynamic is a bit different 😉

by: Answer This | August 25th, 2009 (3:04 pm)

“And I don’t lose any of them to the scum/scam artists such as you, RR, and Joe (And especially TTBW).” Sorry I must have taken TTBW to mean TFB..LOL..Did you mean HBW? LOL..

Screwed by the likes of me? Richard your showing the pressure. I will say point blank for people not to believe anything I say. Read the contracts. As for HBW the information is posted directly on the corp. web site for people to see for themself. Where can people go to get information about Primerica and their products? What if they disagree with you or question something? It seems with you they have a chance of getting cussed out. Me I don’t have to stoop to that level and I won’t.

No, TTBW was the idiot 2thebrainwashed.

Having the information posted like HBW does is both good and bad. It auto weeds out the people who wouldn’t do anything, but it does allow people to research without talking to someone.

For Primerica, the entire company was built on face to face communication. If you want to know more, you talk with an agent directly so they can answer your questions/reservations. They are free to disagree all they want and if they question, I answer.

The only people that run the risk of being cussed out, are people like you. Not clients nor agents. Now, will I talk down to my clients if they are going to do something dumb, yes. I’ll even explain to them WHY it’s a dumb move. I’ve actually gotten MORE clients by doing that.

It’s a fact of life. No one cares about how much you know, until they know how much you care.

@TFB, down south, if a company goes under, the policy gets put into a guarantee pool. The death benefit may get knee capped in the process. Typically what happens though, the policies get replaced by other agents.

BTW, we still on for that hamburger throw down, bobby flaw style?

by: Answer This | August 25th, 2009 (3:41 pm)

” The only people that run the risk of being cussed out, are people like you.” LOL..Your lucky I have an appointment so I have to run.

Just so you know I prefer Diners, Drive Ins And Dives..Triple D..

LOL! Guess 2TBW isn’t eating any burgers this time around!

Cheers! yall!

by: 2thebrainwashed | August 26th, 2009 (9:13 pm)

Where’s my money:

If a manager from any company has a 100% contract and the agent they are training is only at 25% then I don’t care about splitting the sale. The agent with the 100% contract must be starving. I want my agent to be happy and not on a message board “sign that he is about to leave me”.

by: 2thebrainwashed | August 26th, 2009 (9:38 pm)

Come on Richard you know that I am not an idiot. You really respect me because I ask questions that you can’t answer.

Any one following this read the post made by Richard on July 13th at 3:20. Does he sound brainwashed or is he just confused? Your own words Richard, “PFS IS changing, and Art and Bo are apart of that change. The new products will probably be a little more expensive, but not higher fees.” Your next paragraph was “When MetLife cut the guaruntees on all their products, they left ours alone. They raised fees on all their products as well, ours, not so much. According to our Legg Mason contact, of all the IA/FA/VA’s he’s seen, none come close to what we have.”

And you call me a idiot, Mark C maybe you can expand or clear what Richard was trying to explain. Because anyone with common sense recognizes that Richard is making up stuff or repeating something that was passed on to him to keep him motivated and renewing his faith in the crusade.

Please anyone criticize me, what was wrong with my responses to Richard the dates are July 13th and Aug. 4th. If I hurt your feelings with the youtube link sorry. Is it my handle?
I will change it to something more appropriate “Representing the Client”

by: Where's My Money | August 27th, 2009 (8:22 am)

Thank you all for your comments, especially Richard. I have been wondering what should I do at this point about staying in Primerica just long enough to gain experiance. Someone made a nice point about my RVP needing money. That maybe true, they are always seeing the doctor, and my RVP has to be about 60. Maybe when they got trained, they got split by their upline, starting a cycle. I know I have already told my 2 recruites, after they get licensed, and needed me in the field, we would be doing splits. If after a year, I haven’t made it to a reasonable contract, I may have to go and earn more before I have to renew my license. After reading some of to comments to my origanil post, i decided, If I go with my downline to see clients, I will not do a split for their first 2 contracts, maybe 3, but for a new agent, I would want them to feel like they can make alot of money. They will be MORE motivated, I would be too, and when they then see the difference in their pay after a split, they will be striving to become that “independent” agent. I’m nowhere near a RVP level, so I can’t speak about if I was to do a split on a new REP in my downline, but it don’t seem right just thinking about it. Like I said before, I love Primerica for giving me a chance to change careers. Now I work for a manufacturing co., I been there almost 10 years, I thought I made ok money until I got married, and had more kids. Now I live check to check, good thing my wife makes better doe. She’s not a Primerica fan, at all.Still, I see I can make money in this industry, hopefully where I started, but if not I will explore other options, I mean, thats why I joined Primerica anyway, to support my family.

ps. to the guy, in the pool…
you cut me deep with the comment
“that’s a whole lot of 12.5% contracts”

Hopefully, 1 day, if I’m still at Primerica, I can break that downline split cycle, and make money, and tell stories and laugh about my start… a ha ha… 1 day, but for now,

shit ain’t funny.

by: Answer This | August 27th, 2009 (1:42 pm)

Here’s another gem from Jennifer on July 16,

“It’s the amount of coverage that matters when someone is dead. When TERM is affordable and more coverage is given, the family thanks us for putting them in a better situation. Primerica does what’s right.
Keep fighting!”

I think she and Richard need to get on the same page. Does price matter? How much more grateful would the family be if they could get more coverage for their premium dollar?

That is so funny!!! I guess he cant make up his mind!!

Hey “Where’s My Money”,

Did’nt mean to unmotivate you in any way, if I came out harsh I apologize, its just that there are alot of diffrent companies where you can get your feet wet first and build a better compensation package than you have now. My brother in law started with New York Life 7 years ago and started part time with a better commission structure somewhere in the 50% range and they have outstanding training. He is a very sucessful agency… but in my opinion it has a better overall solution training than allways recommending term and invest the difference. I just got bothered with the fact that you could of made more money for the same amount of work somewhere else…

by: Answer This | August 28th, 2009 (12:48 am)

Joe A. They don’t have a clue. Many PFS agents don’t know what different products/markets they can have access to with the license(s) they have. If PFS doesn’t let them offer it they don’t think it’s worth it.

As an example. Currently there is an issue with Medicare Advantage plans. They used to be free. Well now companies are starting to charge for the plans if they stay in that market. There’s going to be huge market for Medicare supplement Plans for seniors. Those plans pay renewals. To offer those plans all it takes is a health license.. So as independent contractors their captive company says nooooo you can’t enter that market. They just don’t know what they don’t know.

Just FYI for everyone!Primerica Rules man! This is awesum! We get free 3rd party credible sources talking good news about Primerica! We didn’t even have to spend a single cent in marketing! LOL!

Fox Business

Fox News Special

by: Answer This | September 3rd, 2009 (7:25 pm)

Mark C. here’s one for you. This came from a PFS agent who is trying to bring me on their team.

Consider this. 6 million clients. That’s a huge market. Across the kitchen table a you tube won’t cut it.. Facts don’t lie.

Appreciate the link AT, but your second comment is not entirely true! In business you have to see that facts are not the only determining factor.

If you get your company that you are with having great revues and having credible sources telling you that Primerica has the right idea and doing the right thing then that is a “PLUS” or a “BONUS” or and “EDGE”to the “FACTS” that you are talking about!

Im sorry to say this but despite you boasting you have a better product “term plan” than Primericas doesnt mean you market or sell on a larger scale, thus why you can’t really compete. Its like comparing Dollar Stores and Wallmart!

Who’s got the bigger distribution? Who’s marketing more term than any other single financial company in the planet? Enough said so that’s the REAL facts!

Peal all them layers of lies and in the end all you have left is the TRUTH!

by: Answer This | September 4th, 2009 (3:36 am)

Mark I am my own company. It is my goal to do what’s best for my clients. Your singing the praises of a company not what you can do for your clients. Yes PFS is currently bigger. Yes they have a distribution machine, but as we know head to head you can’t win. More doesn’t make it right. As for comparing term sales, your looking at if from the perspective one carrier. As independent agents we have access to more than one carrier not to mention I market with more than one IMO.

In closing head to head, belly to belly across the kitchen table with a client you can’t win. That’s a fact. You know it and I know it. So keep singing the praises of a company and I will keep doing what I do. My loyalty is to my clients, yours is to the company. Remember your an independent contractor. The company isn’t loyal to you..

P.S. I never accused any PFS agent of telling lies. I do know many just don’t know what they don’t know. A closed mind can never grow.


You are also an independent contractor for HBW. I read the agreements. Of all the agents I have dealt with, NONE have gone face to face. They all choose to battle over the phone instead, IF AT ALL. Something about facing facts in front of a client with a gun I imagine.

This is Texas after all, we shoot crooks on sight, no questions asked. :)

The fact is, if HBW was truly better (better system, products, commissions, EVERYTHING), then HBW should have a better growth curve than what AL Williams had when it started. From what I’ve been able to find, no where close.

The companies you represent can not compete on the level Primerica does. They don’t have the structure in place to stay profitable while selling term insurance. Period. Heck, most are raising rates right now because of it. “If you always sell at a loss, you’ll never make a profit.” You can’t sit there and say you do what is right when the companies you represent don’t. You personally might (no reason to doubt), but the companies you represent don’t. And you are a representative of the companies you represent.

You also keep accusing us of having loyalty to PFS. My loyalty has ALWAYS been to my clients. If I EVER see a TRULY better product for my clients, I will leave and go to it. Sadly, the industry as a whole is more about making profits than paying death claims and everything that has come out of late is an evil twist of something Primerica created.

by: Answer This | September 4th, 2009 (1:08 pm)

Yes I am an independent contractor. I decide how and who I do business with. HBW is growing. Something you have to remember is when A.L. Williams was growing they didn’t have any competition back then. Today you guys stay at about 100K yet report large recruiting numbers per month..Recruit to sell, recruit to sell.

How can you say the companies I represent can’t compete. You are saying out of all the carriers in the industry Primerica has the best product and structure? Do you forget Citi is having a hard time finding a buyer? The A.L. Williams days are over never to return. Your loyalty can’t be to your client, you can only offer what PFS gives you. So when you know of a better product there’s nothing you can do.

As for the industry and profits your correct and that goes for Primerica. Consider how many people pay the $99.00 or whatever it is along with all the other fees agents have to pay. As for a comparison with HBW you just can’t compare. Stay where you are. Primerica is the perfect place for you.

As I said previously HBW is not the only marketing organization I am contracted with. I also sell to the senior market which HBW doesn’t have some of the products I need. Then there’s another one I am contracted with who has other carriers who I use for clients who are table rated. Yes even term.

You see I can design how I wish to run MY business. Per contract you CAN NOT do that. You don’t know what you don’t know. As for paying death claims please tell me which carriers don’t pay death claims. You know your being very misleading on that one. I will just consider it part of the kool-aid factor..


There you go again, twisting words and making assumptions. You sound like all the agents that don’t like losing business to us termites.

I never said other carriers didn’t pay death claims, although some did have to be sued before they do, I said those carriers are more concerned with making profits than paying them. There is a difference.

But I guess you don’t know what you don’t know.

And frankly, just because I personally can’t offer all the products my clients need, doesn’t mean I don’t. I do have a network of people/companies I work with to make sure they get all they need. I’m not about the money so I try to spread it around. I guess you, RR, and the rest of the agents like you are. At least that is how it sounds to me.

But alas, that is also the difference between a salesman and a businessman.

You keep doing what you do, and I’ll keep doing what is right.

by: Answer This | September 4th, 2009 (3:53 pm)

“Sadly, the industry as a whole is more about making profits than paying death claims and everything that has come out of late is an evil twist of something Primerica created.”

If a company(s) is not concerned with paying a claims I could assume that means at least one doesn’t pay death claims.

You said it not me. Per contract who is Primerica more concerned with, the agent or the company? Per post and the kool-aid factor who is the agent more loyal to, their business or the company?

You say other companies are “evil twist of Primerica. How can you say that? Is it because we offer other carriers? Didn’t you post that Primerica was bringing on some more products?

Your not about the money. Yea right. Primerica is. Are their contest based on appointments or production. It’s about sales. It’s about production. You may not want to believe it but your a salesman. Period. If nothing gets sold, no one gets paid. Your an independent contractor not an employee. The sooner you understand that point the more clear things will become. It’s business…You say you spread business around because your not about the money. You have no choice. I do. The more I make (rule of 72) the faster I can reach my financial goals. Let me say it one more time . It’s business. It’s not a hobby.

by: representingtheclient | September 7th, 2009 (9:37 pm)

Hey there AT I will converse with you:

Now this is why I was formerly known as “2thebrainwashed”. These guys make statements that aren’t true. I believe they repeat information “true or not” passed on to them to keep the motivated and to fight the crusade “evil cash value companies”.

AT you are getting the best of these guys. Now they have went to distribution and how no one can compete with them. The truth is they are not even the competition. Everyone in the industry knows this except them. They have 100k reps and are not even the largest seller of term life insurance. I remember meeting this guy. He had a fold out brochure Citigroup is #1 this Fortune and Forbes rankings. We have 100k reps and we need more people and blah, blah, blah. This was in ’04 or ’05 how many reps do the have now?

by: representingtheclient | September 7th, 2009 (10:19 pm)

Sorry Richard I have to address some of you statements, not because who you are affiliated with but because it is not true. I don’t want some new agent reading this to believe that term isurance isn’t profitable to the insurance companies.

Richard, Sept: 4th
“The companies you represent can not compete on the level Primerica does. They don’t have the structure in place to stay profitable while selling term insurance. Period. Heck, most are raising rates right now because of it. “If you always sell at a loss, you’ll never make a profit.”

The cost of reinsurance went up, increase reserving requirements, poor investment returns and increase cost of capital to name a few are the reasons for the rate increases for some insurance companies. This was felt across the industry.

Here is the kicker, some companies have raised their rates some are waiting until the end of the year. Despite what you think or have been told term insurance is profitable to insurance companies. After the economy stables the consumer can still get a way better deal if they steer away from you. .

To prove my point a 20yr term for a 45yr old male 1 million in coverage(companies that have already raised their rates) is…….
genworth $106
Banner $106
AG $107
Ing $104
LNL #103
Pru $109
The company you represent Richard is over $130mo.

Let me correct you Richard,” because of your structure you guys can’t compete”.

Good Luck everyone and have a productive week.

Sorry brainwashed, but I never said it wasn’t profitable. I just said it was hard for them to be profitable. Some of those problems, Primerica doesn’t have.

Primerica has no debt. 0. None. Those companies do. They sell their policies at a loss to increase sales hoping the client either switches carriers, drop coverage, or convert to a cash value. And also for the record, Primerica is NOT raising rates. THAT is how I know they were selling at a loss.

When you sell crap products, all you can do is sell low and hope no one notices the smell.

And BTW, on your quotes, extend them out to 30 years. Primerica is number 3 on price. They may be able to get a better price, but not a better deal. If you had half a brain, you’d know that price does not determine the quality of the product.

AT, I do have a choice. I CHOOSE to spread business around. I’ve already admitted that I can go anywhere and get paid more. I CHOOSE to be at Primerica because of the products. I also CHOOSE to be with Primerica because it IS a principled company. They have not changed their principles in over 30 years. Your companies change their favorite product in tune with the market, NOT in tune with the best interests of the clients.

The companies you represent, sometimes have to be sued to pay legitimate death claims. Claims a respectable company would pay without question. Or did you forget about the case that went to the supreme court regarding the families of 9/11 victims?

You guys keep doing what you do, I’ll keep doing what is right.

by: Answer This | September 8th, 2009 (1:04 pm)

Richard take off the blinders. Per your contract you have no choice. This isn’t just about you. Primerica is a great fit for you. Stay there. You say crap products. That shows you have the mindset of one product for all people. Agents who think client first fit the product to the needs of the client. Different companies underwrite differently. If you use BTID compare the Genworth quote against the P.Life quote. That’s about $24.00 a month. or $288.00 a year.. How much more coverage can that $24.00 a month purchase the client? Sitting across the kitchen table, belly to belly with a client how would you justify the spread of price and face amount?

Mr/Mrs. client I as a PFS rep. can offer you this face amount. With a competitor you can have this face amount. Considering what’s in the best interest of your family which face amount would like to receive at the death of ________… Genworth + $24.00 a month vs PFS current quote..

As for selling for a loss many of the policies are guaranteed for the full term period. Now how is that selling at a loss and hoping they convert. There’s no requirement to convert, it’s an option. Which carriers didn’t pay out for 9/11?

No company is perfect.

Rep. they just don’t see that they represent the company. BTID isn’t about a company. What’s funny is they will talk about increasing coverage from a W.L., but it’s not ok for someone else to increase coverage by replacing their product. Yet they do what’s right 100% of the time. It’s not bashing PFS it’s fact..

by: Representingtheclient | September 8th, 2009 (1:40 pm)

Come on Richard…..

It takes a few years for the companies to turn a profit on term sales. Bologna, if the insurance company sells at a loss why hope that they switch to another carrier? You would think they would want the consumer to make premiums until the end of the term collecting premiums(more profits) because most likely they are going to outlive their term insurance anyway.

The reason I did not do the 30yr comparison because your term is not fully guaranteed to remain level. You think the companies I quoted are crap products we can do a comparison, I already have you on the guarantee. Tell me what make you think that your term is better? Here is another kicker…The consumers that have bought term the last few years and locked in their rates basically got term life insurance while it was on sale. When a client owns a non guaranteed term product it is like buying an adjustable mortgage.

Here is a great article:

There is only a few reinsurance companies. Your company goes to them also. I bet your rates are increased either late ’09 or early ’10. Like I said it does not matter anyway because the consumer will get a better deal price and quality wise if they steer away from you.

by: Answer This | September 8th, 2009 (6:31 pm)

What…. The 30 year policy Richard has access to isn’t fully guaranteed? Richard is that correct? If it’s not fully guaranteed? Whyyyy???

by: Answer This | September 9th, 2009 (3:32 pm)

Hey Richard, Mark and all the other Primericans just in case you didn’t have time to listen in on the HBW weekly conference call here’s an update on what your “competition” is doing. Today on a conference call I heard about a new product to offer clients. Living Trust

To get more information you can go to the web site and look under products tab and hit the link for Living Trust. So far this year HBW has added the Registered Investment Advisor position and now the product line of Trust Services. It’s all about helping the client…

Now ask yourself this. Across the kitchen table how would you compete for a recruit or a client? Not bashing just facts.

You both are idiots. I was going to do a lengthy response. Thankfully, I’m going to take the higher road. You keep doing what you think is right. Just be careful coming down to Texas. We shoot agents like yourself. It’s even legal and is currently open season.

TFB, It’s been fun, but these 2 aren’t helping your blog one bit. Next time I head up there, I’ll give you a heads up.

I went Tuesday to one of those introduction meeting for Priamerica, just to see what it is and lo and behold the people they try to hire at these events must be just about anyone…The presentation was about…” We are the only ones that do this…”
Im sorry but that was sad! I can’t believe though that they had about 40 first timers… i guess they do hire anyone….I will stick with my independent agency.
Good graciuos, what a we are the only one piece of bad info meeting. Example, they tell everyone that the savings rate has dropped over the last few decades and as of 2007 it was negative, no problem there but then they say, ” so as you can see it probably more negative now since these were 2007 figures”… and everyone says ya we need to help people… Bunch of dimwittts… Here is the latest figure from the Dept of Commerce.

It sits now at 5%…. people are saving more… they dont need Priamerica to do this…


Richard we don’t know who reads this blog. What’s wrong with giving information? I’m sure there are other Primericans who read this blog and wait for you answers. If you see anything posted that is not true call us out on it. If you can’t compete, run.. If you can be sent packing on a blog, what can we expect when sitting across the kitchen table in?

As I have said before. It is in the best interest of PFS reps. not to read blogs. Hype is one thing, but you can’t argue facts.

AT, you keep twisting words to fit your arguments thus becomes pointless to argue facts.

FACT: If any other financial services opportunity were TRUELY better than Primerica, they would have a greater growth curve.

FACT: If other companies products were better, Primerica would not have been created to begin with, much less keep growing.

FACT: If other companies were better, they wouldn’t have shrunk as much as they have over the years.

FACT: If Primerica agents were as trained as you claim they aren’t, why would the companies you represent be attempting to POACH Primerica agents?

FACT: Others CAN do what Primerica does, but MANY CHOOSE not to.

Let the twisting begin.

BTW, this video still holds true today.

This crap is STILL going on.

by: Answer This | September 12th, 2009 (9:24 pm)

Richard there’s no twisting going on. People can do a side by side comparison and make up their own mind. Now why do you address me about cash value? Next in the video he fails to explain that the cash value is not owned by the policy holder. It belongs to the company. So people don’t borrow their own money.

Primerica is a strong company, but that doesn’t mean it has the best opportunity. You are using 1970″s thinking. This is 2009. As for poaching that’s not the case. It’s just a case of offering a better opportunity for agents. If PFS were so great they would stay. Here’s another tid bit. Agents who leave PFS do have the ability to go back if they so choose. How many do? You see once a person has a chance to get a taste of being independent especially if they are part-time it’s hard to go back to being captive.

My way of thinking is this which I heard from our CEO’s own mouth. If anyone finds a business opportunity which they feel is better for them it’s within their best interest to take it. He feels as HBW is his company he is going to do what’s in his best interest as a business owner. So he says we should think the same way.

You see that’s why we have access to products for people who just may not want to become licensed. Any product we offer is optional. People can pick and choose a individual product to market if they so choose. It’s called freedom.

You can defend the company (PFS) all you want. My goal is to offer my clients great products at a great price along with an upfront business opportunity. You see to get information on what I have to offer doesn’t require going to a meeting for information. It’s on a web site. Products and compensation. Yes or No at least the potential recruit can know from their own research if they have any interest. You see that’s 2009 thinking. How can you compete with that? The fact is you can’t.

As for busines offerings. Exactly what is it PFS can do that we as independents can’t? We have access to Term and side accounts so the “crusade” isn’t an issue.

Let’s compare Products:


Life Carrier: Primerica Life
***No information available.


Life Carriers:

***If a HBW agent feels another carrier would be a better fit for their client and HBW doesn’t offer that carrier the agents are free to go out and contract with the carrier of their choice.

As for the “crusade or Buy Term Invest The Difference:

At PFS all you have is BTID (6,63)

At HBW they have BTID (6,63.65 RIA), and Buy term And Save The Difference (Term + a Fixed Indexed Annuity) which can be done with a life License.

You see this is the way of doing business today. How many PFS agents know about this way of doing business? Now I ask again how can you compete with that? Stay loyal to the company. Per contract how loyal are they to you?

Your so kool-aid drunk you just don’t want to see the business side as a business person. If that works for you great.

Now let’s consider the legal plans.

Primerica Legal protection: No information available.
Agent comp: ???????

Pre-Paid Legal:
Agent comp: page 30..

Which brings up another question. Why sell legal plans with PFS as the middle man?

Just know this. There’s a new sheriff in town.

by: Answer This | September 13th, 2009 (5:47 am)

Ok Richard i will answer. Just in case I did do a post earlier but it hasn’t been posted yet.. So if you see a double post that’s the reason.

FACT: If any other financial services opportunity were TRUELY better than Primerica, they would have a greater growth curve.

**Answer: Companies are growing. You just don’t know it. How do you explain the PFS monthly recruiting numbers and they still stay at 100K?

FACT: If other companies products were better, Primerica would not have been created to begin with, much less keep growing.

***Answer: You can’t compare yesterday to today. They are two different markets. Today many different carriers sell term.

FACT: If other companies were better, they wouldn’t have shrunk as much as they have over the years.

***Answer: Markets adjust and consolidate. ALW/Primerica once had over 200K agents.

FACT: If Primerica agents were as trained as you claim they aren’t, why would the companies you represent be attempting to POACH Primerica agents?

***Answer: Nobody is poaching. It’s just a case of agents being offered better contracts and access to more information.

FACT: Others CAN do what Primerica does, but MANY CHOOSE not to.

***Answer: Any company has the right to run their business as they see fit. Primerica chooses not to have a conversion to perm. in their policies. Just because Primerica does business a certain way doesn’t mean that’s the way everyone should do business. Primerica requires RVP’s to bee full-time. Does that mean every company should require agents at a certain level to be full-time?

Let the twisting begin.

BTW, this video still holds true today.

This crap is STILL going on.

***Answer: There’s no twisting on my part. There’s a twist in the video. Cash Value does not belong to the policy holder. It is the insurance companies money. That’s why they pay interest because the insurance company will lose the use of that money if it is taken out of the policy.

Also an agent does not have to be with PFS to replace a CV program when it’s in the best interest of the client.

That’s a Fact Jack.

-FACT: If any other financial services opportunity were TRUELY better than Primerica, they would have a greater growth curve.
**Answer: Companies are growing. You just don’t know it. How do you explain the PFS monthly recruiting numbers and they still stay at 100K?

— Companies are not growing anywhere near as fast as Primerica did or is today. The count isn’t 100k, it’s OVER 100k.

-FACT: If other companies products were better, Primerica would not have been created to begin with, much less keep growing.
***Answer: You can’t compare yesterday to today. They are two different markets. Today many different carriers sell term.

— Yesterday companies sold term as well, just considerably less amounts of it. The markets aren’t as different as you think.

-FACT: If other companies were better, they wouldn’t have shrunk as much as they have over the years.
***Answer: Markets adjust and consolidate. ALW/Primerica once had over 200K agents.

— Before ALW, the industry had OVER 200k reps and roughly 2000 companies. In the last 30+ years, both those number have shrunk drastically. And if I remember my history correctly, the reason behind the drop from 200k to 72k was because of a merger, NOT the opportunity.

-FACT: If Primerica agents were as trained as you claim they aren’t, why would the companies you represent be attempting to POACH Primerica agents?
***Answer: Nobody is poaching. It’s just a case of agents being offered better contracts and access to more information.

— No they aren’t. I’ve seen the contracts and the info. The info is already publicly available and the contracts I’ve seen have have quota requirements in them. Granted they all did offer a base salary and management over 4 other offices with leads, but I care more of my clients than that.

-FACT: Others CAN do what Primerica does, but MANY CHOOSE not to.
***Answer: Any company has the right to run their business as they see fit. Primerica chooses not to have a conversion to perm. in their policies. Just because Primerica does business a certain way doesn’t mean that’s the way everyone should do business. Primerica requires RVP’s to bee full-time. Does that mean every company should require agents at a certain level to be full-time?

— When you do what is right, a conversion to cash value products/perm products is not needed. Once an agent reaches certain levels, they are EXPECTED to take over full ownership and run. That requires full time status. I’ve never met a family yet that didn’t appreciate the way we do business, even the recruiting aspect, once I talked with them. I’ve never met a client of an independent, HBW, WFG, Direct Seller, whatever, that was given/offered all of these:

A) A plan (and support) out of debt.
B) EDUCATION on insurance.
C) EDUCATION on investments.
D) A plan to retirement.
E) A plan for other investments.
F) Direct cell phone of the agent.
G) Ability to actually REACH the agent at 7p at night to explain something.

-Let the twisting begin.
-BTW, this video still holds true today.
-This crap is STILL going on.
***Answer: There’s no twisting on my part. There’s a twist in the video. Cash Value does not belong to the policy holder. It is the insurance companies money. That’s why they pay interest because the insurance company will lose the use of that money if it is taken out of the policy.

— The insurance company pays interest on the clients cash stored in the companies accounts. It’s an over payment on insurance. ANY product you over pay on, the cash is yours regardless of where it is. For the product to work as illustrated, the only way to access it is to BORROW your over payments and PAY LOST INTEREST back to the company. The cash itself still belongs to the client, it is just help in the companies accounts. Second, if the cash wasn’t the clients, then the company has no reason to a) allow for loans and b) allow withdrawals.


by: Answer This | September 13th, 2009 (1:11 pm)

Now Richard. it’s about doing what’s best for the client, not about who gets there first. You mentioned PFS is going to offer disability in the future. What about now? Do you advise your clients about the risk of an accident or sickness? Well I guess you do the best you could, you offer them a waiver of premium rider.

There’s no twisting to be done. It’s very simple who has the best tools to get the job done. You see your promoting a company. We promote programs and an opportunity. This isn’t about you or me. It’s about choice. Given the choice across the kitchen table you will lose for the client and the business. That’s from a stand point from HBW. You know it and I know it. As I said it’s not the clients cash in the policy. Do some homework. That’s the spin you guys put on it.

The company will charge interest because they won’t have use of the money within the policy. I’m not promoting cash value that’s just the way it works.

Now in closing no one has to believe anything I post. They can do their own research. With you they have to go to a meeting or talk to an agent to get information..

As far as education you know it’s only education on PFS products. Not about the industry… What do you mean if it’s done right no conversion is needed? Life events happen. Conversion is just an option. Have you ever heard of Pension Max? For me it’s not about any one company. It’s about doing what’s best for the client.


How many times must I say it. I DO THE SAME THING YOU DO BUT WITH PRIMERICA PRODUCTS!!! What ever PFS does not offer, I have networked with local businesses to provide. I even have lawyers I send people to when the client doesn’t want Pre Paid Legal. The long term care we have can be used for ANY QUALIFYING disability. I do talk to my clients about what goes on now and what to expect.

I must disagree, given the choice, my clients CHOOSE me. Even when faced with independent agents, I still win. It’s happened before, it’ll keep happening. See, YOU don’t know the office I am apart of and the training we do. We don’t JUST train on our products, we train on yours too. What? You don’t believe me? Not surprised. After all, you don’t know what you don’t know.

Conversion is only a viable option when the agent that is supposed to be helping the client has FAILED to do their job properly.

For you, it’s about how many products you personally can offer. For me, it’s about protecting the client and helping the community.

“The company will charge interest because they won’t have use of the money within the policy.” — If the money didn’t belong to the client, they shouldn’t be A) giving the client interest on it and B) shouldn’t offer a withdrawal/cash out option. The MONEY belongs to the client, the ACCOUNT that it is in doesn’t. The MONEY is surrendered upon benefit payout as per the contract in exchange for receiving the full payout UNLESS the client pays MORE for it. EVERY cash value policy I have read, I made sure I read those parts to the client. EVERY ONE wished the agent was there and they had a gun.

See, several of the clients I have met with that had one of you guys, didn’t want to do business until the policies they had were opened up (sometimes for the first time) and read to them and shown how it works. EVERY TIME, they signed a PFS policy on the spot. When I brought the policy back, I opened it up and walked them through it. Even showed the 20year guarantee. They were never happier to switch. Some still get calls back from the old agents BEGGING them to come back and offering them cheaper deals. They run them by me with the agent in front of me and them. They’ve never switched away.

All of you keep doing what the industry wants, I’ll keep doing what my CLIENTS want. The difference between us, isn’t what we know, it’s how much we care. I KNOW I can get paid better elsewhere. I KNOW I can offer a wider variety of products. I KNOW my clients are BETTER for me staying with Primerica.

by: Answer This | September 13th, 2009 (8:30 pm)

I have no doubt that you care for your clients. That doesn’t mean your doing the job. What do you mean by qualifying disability within a LTC policy? Also what do you mean by the 20 year guarantee? Do you mean a fully guaranteed 20 year term or a 30 year term guaranteed for 20 years?

Why do you keep saying “one of you guys”? You keep selling the clients what you want… I would love to see your recommendations for as above or a special needs child..

AT, when I take clients away from independents, RIA’s, CFPs, etc, (IE You guys) that means I’m doing something right that they aren’t. That means I AM doing my job.

You know what qualifying means. In my case, it’s 2 ADL’s and doctor says needs help my product kicks in for length of disability. For sickness, that’s what an emergency/sick fund is used for.

The only thing I sell my clients, is the chance to be debt free and retire comfortably, and with me, they hit it every time. Everything else just falls into place.

Hey “Representingtheclient” formerly known as “brainwashed” what you quote is not so correct cuz when I went and got a quote on and ran the same numbers with equivilent A+ companies this what I got! for a 45 year old male with $1000,000 coverage and Preferred health rate:

Fyi( “Pf” means Preferred & “gtd” means guaranteed) * for those new people…

20 Year Level Term

Company Name A.M. Best
as of
08/10/2009 Product Name Health Class Premium

Primerica Life Insurance Company A+ Custom Advantage – 20 Year Preferred Non-Smoker 173.38 Pf gtd
Sun Life Assurance Company of Canada A+ SunTerm 20 R&C Class 2 Non-smoker 179.55 Pf gtd
The Canada Life Assurance Company A+ 20 Year Term, Renewable and Convertible Platinum Non Smoker 198.00 Pf gtd
The Great-West Life Assurance Company A+ 20 Year Term, Renewable and Convertible Platinum Non Smoker 198.00 Pf gtd
Sun Life Assurance Company of Canada A+ SunTerm 20 R&C Class 3 Non-smoker 199.35 Rg gtd
The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company A+ Family Term-20 Healthstyle 2 – Pfd Non-smoker 205.79 Pf gtd
The Canada Life Assurance Company A+ 20 Year Term, Renewable and Convertible Gold Non Smoker 215.10 Rg gtd
The Great-West Life Assurance Company A+ 20 Year Term, Renewable and Convertible Gold Non Smoker 215.10 Rg gtd
The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company A+ Family Term-20 Healthstyle 3 – Std Non-smoker 218.60 Rg gtd
Primerica Life Insurance Company A+ Custom Advantage – 20 Year Non-Smoker 250.33 Rg gtd
The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company A+ Family Term-20 Healthstyle 4 – Non-cigarette 385.14 Rg gtd
As you can clearly see Primerica is the cheapest and cost effective and it even includes Terminal Ilness Benefits.

Facts are Facts man! No wonder why you change your name. Its seem you want to become un-brainwashed hahaha!

Power to the people!


by: Answer This | September 14th, 2009 (3:22 pm)

Richard there is a difference between a disability policy and a LTC policy. You can poke out your chest all you want, but you can’t post facts. Your agent contract can be beat. Your product offerings can be beat. That Fact. Now you say th emergency fund is for if a LTC issue or sickness come up. How much do you think that can cost? Then if at a later age they have no Life coverage due your advice to get rid of it what’s the family to do? Apply for coverage again? You just made your own point for a policy perm conversion option.

As for Mark C. The Canadian and US markets re different markets. As a whole your still lacking. Why make a point in one market and then say price doesn’t matter in another?

by: representingtheclient | September 14th, 2009 (6:51 pm)

I can’t comment on Canada. But Richard, AT, RR, Joe A. and I are in the US. Funny how you pick your battles. Since you jumped in Mark C, what makes your policy so special that a consumer would want to pay $24+ more a month in the US?

Give me some facts.

Just to prove my point about you Richard. I skimmed through some of your posts and there is quite a few. AT is right, you are loyal to your company. The sad thing is that Richard does understand that he can’t fully address the needs of his clients but still defends his company. On Aug 7th, 2008 (7:05pm) you posted, “3. I never said ours was the only one. I know whole life can have Term Riders, but how many other Term products can have Term riders? I don’t know of many. I know we don’t have products to cover all situations (another reason we are NOT a one size fits all company), but that may change once the sell is complete.”

Are you waiting to be sold in hopes that the new company will have better products? And you had the nerves to call me an idiot. LMFAO!

I am going to find another silly post. See my next post.

by: representingtheclient | September 14th, 2009 (9:00 pm)

by: Richard | September 13th, 2009 (3:12 pm)

“I must disagree, given the choice, my clients CHOOSE me. Even when faced with independent agents, I still win. It’s happened before, it’ll keep happening. See, YOU don’t know the office I am apart of and the training we do. We don’t JUST train on our products, we train on yours too. What? You don’t believe me? Not surprised. After all, you don’t know what you don’t know.”

You’ve been trained on other products right? Even if the premiums are the same what makes your term product so special Richard?

by: Answer This | September 14th, 2009 (9:34 pm)

Trained on all the products? Train on our products? I have a hard enough time remembering the individual features of the different products from different carriers. Not to mention passwords to sign into their web sites.

For all you Primericans who consistently get told your number one get a hold of this months Best Review. You may get a reality check. Primeirca Life may in the top 10 in some listings, but not number one.

Something else that may have slipped by. When doing the quotes one company that may rate standard another one may rate preferred. I don’t care how much training is done to switch someone from a fully guaranteed product to a partial guarantee is an E/O ticking time bomb. If it wasn’t an issue to the carrier they would fully guarantee the product.

by: Answer This | September 15th, 2009 (9:48 pm)

All you Primericans have to consider this reality. Do a Google search on Primerica.

So what AT why dont you do a Google search on Coke, or Pepsi, or Mcdonalds or Microsoft or Better yet GOD? What that has to do with our company and our business opportunity! Haters are haters they complain and whine cuz they have nothing better to do and they are failures in life! OH i can’t do it…its too hard…I want money for nothing..I want fast easy cash…If you whine and complain you will never be successful in anything and any opportunity that comes your way! Look up any of those sites and see how many “LEGITIMATE” complaints and Websites there are? So Don’t waste my time! If you want google your life away &make all your decisions based on what google says! Where & what to eat..what time to sleep..what religion you should follow..where to work what kind of potential and talents you have…

Your messege on this blogs is so insignificant that your trying so hard to discredit The Primerica Company, products , services & Business Opportunity! We’ll go ahead give it a try and will just take all you nay-sayers down again and again!

So Bring it!

Oh bdw im not at all emotional, just well opinionated! So Dont try throw that at me! Im only human! I very passionate in what I do and in this opportunity! So just move on with you lives and money is not everything, although it can help but the may reason why this opportunity is so great is the FREEDOM that comes with building a business here in PRIMERICA! You like a different pay structure & system so be it, stay where you are! Me I like the Our Pay structure and our system! There’s not other like it and even comes close to it!

Don’t bother replying to me all your gona do and say are useless, very small and insignificant little things that waste your time obsessing about it! Nothing but yatayatayatyat…forever and ever!

Thats the end of that!

If you actually google just “primerica” the first ten pages aren’t “OMG THIS COMPANY IS A SCAM” websites. They are mostly primerica websites. Now if you google “primerica scams” you get a whole different story. But consider this, what do you get if you type “hbw scam” into google? Put the word scam after anything and it will turn up bad. Try googling “underwear scam” and you get my point.

by: Answer This | September 16th, 2009 (2:45 pm)

Mark what are you passionate about? Let me warn you if you answer that question there are others who will call you out. The more you guys post the deeper the hole you dig yourself in.

I don’t advise people not to join Primerica, I just tell people to make an informed decision. For some people the hand holding captive structure Primerica has is a good fit for them. They just need to understand there is a potential income cost.

As for many of the post on blogs it would be different if it were just people who did not have any inside experience with the organization.

Answer this LET ME WARN YOU that you better be careful what you say because you are killing of peoples potential by not letting them get a chance to try it out firs…just like you did! Had you not tried, you would have never know IF it was for you or not! Let others have the chance to try it, if the shoe fits then it fits if doesn’t then charge to experience! I dont see the problem! Are all people alike that all they want is money not everyone most people want the FREEDOM and live their dreams and help others people to make their life have a purpose and be significant! So bring it and let those so called” others” call me out! I coudnt care less it wont affect my thinking nor my business! My passion for Primerica and this opportunity is based on my personal & family experience and all those other families and clients that I help and in return my life has a sense of purpose of making a difference in the world! There are still much more wrong doing in the industry before, now and in the future thats why Primerica is here to stand firm and make wright all the wrongs the Financial Industry has done for the past century! Cant believe ur blind enough that you cant see what im passionate about… What about you, what are you passionate about? Careful now I urge you to be very careful in the words you will choose and give you a STERN WARNING that ..yes “OTHERS ” will/might/maybe call you out! WHOOOO! Scary huh!

See u from the TOP!

by: Answer This | September 17th, 2009 (1:55 pm)

Mark yes I am grateful to Primerica for introducing me to the industry. That doesn’t mean I should have been loyal to Primerica, It’s not like they do what they do out of the goodness of their heart. For the agents a noncompete has a cost. Giving up legs has a cost. Purchasing of brochures and services has a cost. The starting commission structure has a cost. Time spent with the company has a cost.

When I joined Primerica it wasn’t the product. It was the concept of Buy Term Invest The Difference. I bought into the crusade. I hated whole life. I hated whole life because I only heard the Primerica side about whole life. There is a market for whole life when we look are the impaired, senior and other markets. Some people do want a lifetime guarantee. Not everyone just some people. Then there’s the other markets available such as Med. Supps, Med. advantage, Senior Settlements, Fixed/Indexed Products, and other products.

The problem came when I found out I could do much better for the client and myself the client outside of Primerica. You see when I was there they kept saying I could own my won business within a business. Well one day I confronted others on a message board and did some research. I would do as you do which is have blind loyalty to Primerica. My arguments were basically rah, rah type rebuttals.

I am passionate about doing the best job I can for “MY” clients and building my business. I don’t have to defend any one individual company as you do. I may just have to defend a concept. When I joined PFS I bought into a crusade and started a business. People in my family owned whole life and i saw the difference in coverage amount when I compared the available coverage for the same face amount. well when I was confronted on message boards about the difference in face amounts I cold provide my clients when compared to other carriers I had to make a choice. Where was my loyalty? Knowing that I could do much better for my clients outside of PFS and not telling my client made me do the mirror test. at that moment I understood it was a business. PFS agents would say they have the best rates and/or the best business opportunity in financial services. Well after doing some research that wasn’t totally true.

Back then my business consisted with what Primerica allowed me to do. Today I do what I want to do. I can have full control of my income be it from team production or personal production. No recruiting requirements and the ability to directly contract with other carriers. Your passion isn’t about helping people, it’s about Primerica. I’m sure you know from reading post and doing some research you can do better for the client by shopping products. Being captive your loyalty is to the company. You don’t do what’s best for the client. You may offer a better program than the one they had before sat down with them. That’s it…

Is Primerica a scam? I say no… Can people get better contracts and have more freedom elsewhere? I say yes. Primerica is about keeping it simple. They stay within their market and price their products and service so they can make a profit and pay the different levels of compensation. I think people just need to make informed choices. If you think that is bad, hey keep doing what your doing..

I’m at the top. I have freedom… Primerica taught me this is a business and I should look at this as a business. If PFS is for you great, stay there. That doesn’t mean i should let people know there are other options.

Your promotions are based on production and recruiting what does that tell you. My promotions are based on production. It can come from personal or from a team. For the carriers I am directly contracted with it’s about production. Am I a salesperson? Yes I am. We all are you just don’t want to admit it. next time your taught closing statements stand up and say you don’t want to hear it, your not a salesman. Feel, Felt, Found.. It’s sales.

So we are cristal clear on our POV so lets end it with that and by the way you cant tell me what im passionate about because you are not me, you dont think like me nor can you feel what I feel inside..only I can tell that got it!

So If I say that im passionate about what I do Im not saying thats its only all the company that im passionate about so dont get your wires crossed and dont put words in my mouth cous im not putting words in yours RESPECT!

Secondly there’s is only a small percentage of the population that have Term and are investing the rest and if I can go over the Kitchen table and offer a better plan with a good and stable company that replaces their mostly Whole life, Universal Life & Variable Life insurance policies then thats is my choice cuz I know our concept and product is much better for them!

If I come across another Term plan like yours, we’ll analyze it first if its is right for them to meet all their obligations and financial goals if we need to replace it the we replace it if not then keep what they have! Why bother changing if it is good for them! The Client has the right to shop around if they want no one is stopping them they make all the decisions! If somebody else offered and replaced your term with a better product then that’s what is called competition it’s up to you to make sure your clients fully understand the product and financial game plan you give them and if they stick to their plan with the products & services you gave them then they will reach their financial goals!

Most people don’t plan to fail, they fail to plan! So even if you have the best products but you dont explain and guide your clients with a financial game plan its all useless and total waste of money and time!

Thirdly you may be financial independent but how bout your clients? I have help many to buy their first homes with the money they saved in their investments and help them get their full and biggest taxe refund in their entire working life and create a buffered savings just in case or help to knock off some bad debts or put into their kids education plan or save for a family trip or save for their retirement or just simply to have some disposible cash lying around whenever they needed it instead of tapping into to their credit cards again!

Finaly, you stay with your system as a rogue no strong ties to any company (i.e just life shifting sands) and I am very happy where I am with a good solid company thats built on a ROCK that has integrity, good philosophies and amazing business opportunity model compared to the rest of the industry!

See you Above the top!

by: Answer this | September 18th, 2009 (1:21 pm)

Mark as I said before I have been where you are. The main theme for Primerica has not changed and it won’t change. The only way you could understand what many of us are saying to to look at Primerica opportunity from the outside looking in with an open mind.

As for Primerica being a solid company there’s no doubt. When I joined Primerica it was to help people. That mindset has not changed. What has changed is I now have more tools at my disposal to get the job done. I help clients do what’s in their best interest, not what a company allows me to do which is in their best interest. If the product and belief in their concept is so strong why do they tie your hands per contract?

There has been an inordinate amount of Primerica bashing since 1981 when they first began to make an impact on Prudential by replacing so many policies in NJ.

The architects of building NJ were Denis Schechter and Joe Ensor.

Denis was an extremely knowledgeable insurance professional who had come from the pension planning division of Kansas City Life.

Joe Ensor was cut from a different bolt of cloth. He was a schemer, a liar, a fraud AND my friend.

I knew Joe for 40 years, since my teens. He passed away at age 58 some 6 years ago.

Prior to joining A.L. Williams he was running a scheme to manipulate the Canadian stock market with Glenn W. Turner, the noted con man from the book Saint or Sinner.

You can figure out what Glenn W. Turner was for yourself when you read his story AFTER he came out of prison.

Joe Ensor was the mastermind behind fast start schools and the siphoning off of tax free money from the downline in attendance, among a host of other schemes.

On a regular basis when I would see him, he would regale me with stories of his latest scheme to fleece his downline. It ranged from leased office space to junkets to Mexico.

He always said that Art Wiliams always preached about NOT recruiting professionals in fancy suits who earn $100,000 because, they think they know it all.

Joe stated that they just wanted the not too bright, so they could be led around by being promoted with some silly award and given a nickname like Lightning Larry because he put three people in the business the first week.

Joe’s idea was to give this person a new identity through a nickname and they would never leave because they lose the nickname.

Joe Ensor was the most lovable rogue I ever met in my life. He was my friend because I was one of the few people that he never victimized because I had no interest in anything that he ever presented. We were just friends.

The problem for Primerica is that the Internet exposed their mantra of ” we sell the cheapest term insurance in America, so we can take care of middle income America. ”

No, the fact is that thre are about 700 companies with a cheaper term product because they don’t have to pay out 13 levels of commissions.

Also, people cam go online, shop for term, download the app and mail it into the company.

No, agent necessary.

Primerica is a dying entity and will be gone when CitiGroup completely collapses by the Fall of 2010.

Their stock fell from $57 a share to $.97 a share. It has rebounded to almost $2 a share and that will be about the maximum.

Many people made terrific incomes in Primerica but they never really knew anything about financial matters, as they were in the people business.

I am happy for anyone who did well and wish that it would continue for those in it…but it won’t.

But certainly my best wishes to all.


Dr. Francis John Maguire, Ph.D.

Dr. Francis John Maguire,

There are a few problems with your argument.

Firstly, are you actively participating in trading stocks? If so you’ll know that Citigroup, traded as ‘C’ on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE), is trading for over $4/share up from a 52 week low of $0.97/share. Not $2/share as you stated. Do your due diligence before making a claim.

Secondly, most of the Primerica reps I know do not claim to sell the cheapest term insurance. As you mentioned people can look online for the different rates that are available. The rates for the term insurance they offer isn’t the most expensive either. It’s like comparing cars.. is a person looking for a BMW, a Cadillac or a Corvette? All of them have great features and all are priced differently.

As for the compensation structure – the ’13’ levels they get paid is a ridiculous statement. There are different contract levels – breaking up the commission of a product that is sold between all participating parties (whether it’s a split commission or not.) Sure, reps can get paid residual income but isn’t that the point of running your own business?

Just because you know 1 bad apple who took advantage of his team members doesn’t mean the company as a whole is bad. Nor does it mean that the company is in any sort of trouble. Primerica reps market the financial products of different companies, they are certified Financial Planners.

To all those following this blog…don’t base your decisions off of what people say on the internet. Everyone was born with a brain, use it! You can’t base your decision on what to do in your life based off of other people’s success or failure.



Follow up to my previous post.

I apologize but I made a typo on my previous post.

Primerica reps are NOT certified financial planners. They are marketers of financial products and services who have to be licensed in the province or state in which they work.


Firstly, are you actively participating in trading stocks? If so you’ll know that Citigroup, traded as ‘C’ on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE), is trading for over $4/share up from a 52 week low of $0.97/share. Not $2/share as you stated. Do your due diligence before making a claim.

Oh, I see it has rallied, pardon me. No, I don’t follow the stock everyday. Now, $4 from $57. Is that a buy sign?

And if you don’t know any Primerica resps that claim to sell the cheapest term insurance in America, then you are completely in the dark as to the sales pitch, so do you due diligence,

Comparing cars and term insurance is ludicrous at best. Term insurance has no features, just a cost..

Primerica people are not building their own business, as their contract states they do not own the client base.

And I do not know one bad apple, I know many but that was not the intention of my post in the first place.

So, if you are looking to cross swords with someone on these issues, you have certainly encountered the right person.

If you would like, I can factually discuss the schemes of some of the company leaders that brought them into the gunsights of IRS, as well as the matter sthat I personally investigated.

Investigated? Yes,

Det/Commander Maguire (Ret.)

So you’re a retired Det and a Doctor…congrats.

Titles aside, Citigroup stock has been above $4/share since the middle of August. You should know that past performance doesn’t guarantee future performance. Who knows what Citi shares will be worth in the next 6 months. Companies lose value, that doesn’t mean they are going to collapse.

There are over 100,000 reps with Primerica. I don’t know 99,750 of them. Out of the ones that I do know, no one has said that Primerica sells the cheapest term insurance. Granted I’m not around them every day, but if that were the case I’m sure there would be many consumers complaining.

Term insurance has no features? Last time I checked renewability & convertibility, dread disease(critical illness), accidental death etc. are all features that can be added.. thus increasing the price. Don’t cars work the same way? Can’t I get leather seats or a sunroof as an extra “feature”… how about a 6 CD changer or integrated GPS?

Have you had the chance to read the IBA? After a person meets certain requirements, typically at a certain contract level and number of years in the company…they do.


John Hughes Esq.

Last time I checked renewability & convertibility, dread disease(critical illness), accidental death etc. are all features that can be added.. thus increasing the price.

Yes, but that is not what they sell. It is pure term and cost is the only important matter when there are no added features.

They do spout the mantra of ” we sell the cheapest term “, as part of the sales pitch. They surely are not saying ” there are 600 companies with cheaper term insurance than us, but we are the ones taking care of middle income America. ”

The company may deny they are saying that but I know what they are saying,

Their contract states the clients are Primerica’s.

Furthermore, if it is your business than you should be able to sell it in the free market. That is not the case with Primerica.

How I know this is simple.

My brother (23 years with the company, since the days of Art Williams) was the first person in all of Primerica to ” sell ” his business out of the 161 who have done so.

The restriction and company approvals clearly dictate that they do not own their business.

I still contend that CitiGroup is a doomed entity and I have no axe at all with Primerica.

Best of continued success at all you do, Mr. Highes.


Fran Maguire

Hi Fran,

Yes, Primerica does provide pure term insurance..but have you read one of their policies? Like how you can borrow 40% of the face value of the policy if you’re diagnosed with a terminal illness. I would say that’s a little more than pure insurance and is classified as a ‘feature.’

Out of the 250+ reps that I do know, none of them are trained to say “we sell the cheapest term insurance” It is not and has never been part of the sales pitch. I’m not sure how it works where you come from.

You said that your brother is the first person to sell his business…yet you also state that the contract states that they do not own their business. That’s a contradiction because, from a legal standpoint, it is impossible to sell something that you do not own.

With the bailouts and other financial stresses that Citigroup is going through right now, it may very well be headed down the same path as Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac… who knows?

I wish you the best as well in your retirement.

John Hughes

by: Answer This | October 29th, 2009 (5:51 pm)

Here’s something i’ve always wondered about. PFS offers P/C through a referral basis. If you notice here they are promoting the savings in premium: Should people shop coverage or premium.

Why is it ok to stress premium savings on one line rather than another? Also are the P/C comparisons done with one company or shopped through many? Hmmmmm. I’m just sayin…

OMG!!! Did I look at that article correctly, it states that “allows clients to get multiple quotes from top rated insurance carriers so they can then make an educated decision about their coverage.” So they can do this for P and C business but not for life insurance. What a joke!!!!

Like how you can borrow 40% of the face value of the policy if you’re diagnosed with a terminal illness


I don’t understand how someone can borrow 40% of the fface amount of a term policy that has no cash value unless they are assiging a like amount of death benefit to the company.

My statement about my brother selling his business was facetious. Hebought into the company line only to find out he exercised no control over who bought it.

The company made that determination and then the first person who boughtit it was not paying the monthly installments.

He has tp ” re-sell : it to someone else.

Essentially, 7 years of a nightmare.

Apparently, they control everything except getting the money to the person who :”sold ” their business.

Last, I heard was that some 70 of thise 161 were trying to band together for some action against the company about this whole ownership not really being that.

And all they will do is talk about it and actually do nothing.

Best to you, John.


Fran Maguire

Hi Fran,

My apologies… you aren’t borrowing the 40% from the policy. There is a terminal illness benefit that’s built in to Primerica life insurance policies. If you’re diagnosed with a terminal illness you can receive 40% of the death benefit up to a maximum of $250,000. This has nothing to do with CSV because as you know term policies have no CSV.

If you die, the remaining portion of the death benefit is paid out. If you live, you need to pay the premiums for the policy until it expires. I’m pretty sure people will agree that’s a pretty great feature!

Last, I heard was that some 70 of thise 161 were trying to band together for some action against the company about this whole ownership not really being that.

I’m not going to base any arguments based off of hear-say. Do you have any proof that 70 of the 161 people are taking some action?

Getting the money from the person who he sold it to would be a legal issue wouldn’t it? I’m not familiar enough with Primerica’s policy on who can buy the client base so I can’t form a solid argument about it. From a personal perspective I would never sell anything that has the potential to earn me a residual income for life. Would you?



Now when you mean expire, does that mean to the end of the guaranteed term price or untill age 90 or 95 expiration date?

Last, I heard was that some 70 of thise 161 were trying to band together for some action against the company about this whole ownership not really being that.


A. As I mentioned this is the scuttlebuut but will they ever actually take action. Probably, not as they are still fearful of what the company will do do them.

Getting the money from the person who he sold it to would be a legal issue wouldn’t it? I’m not familiar enough with Primerica’s policy on who can buy the client base so I can’t form a solid argument about it.

A. This speaks to the heart of the matter about these people saying they own their own business. They don’t because they cannot sell it in the free market.

They can make some arrangement whereby the company decides who buys their code number and book of business. They company also decides the terms.

However, they do not take the income stream and direct it to the seller tio assure they are, in fact, being paid.

They keave that in the hands of the buyer, who assumed the business with no money upfront and is to pay the seller 80% of the revenue for 10 years.

The concept is supposed to be that the seller with all these new people will grow his base substantially and it will warrant this transaction, as effective.

The problem quicjkly becomes that the buyers just don’t pay the sellers and the company does and the company decalres that amtter between buyer and seller.

It results in the seller either taking the buyer to court or taking the business back and going throuigh the same process all over again.

From a personal perspective I would never sell anything that has the potential to earn me a residual income for life. Would you?

A. Absolutely, I would sell if I reasoned iout that my residual income was from renewals and a block of business that was eroding because of replacements.

I would take the money and run.

The problem with this Primerica business buy out is that since there is no upfront money, someone is putting their business income in the hands of another person, as the business renewal base erodes.

It is a matter of the people, who were in the position to ” sell ” their business, had been drinking the company Kool Aid all along and really d9d not pay attention to what they were really going to get when they ” sold ” their business.

But they knew keeoing it was a dying endeavor.

On a personal note, I was in Green Bay attending to business with the Archdiocese and took a detou,r on the way home, to St. Louis for a social visit.

I happned to be staying at the Lumiere and noticed an interior marquee touting a Regional Primerica Convention.

After dinner one night, i strolled in and listened to 20 minutes of it.

It was like being in a time warp. The same exact mantras that were being spouted 20 years ago were being spit out. Only the clothing had changed.

But the people were soaking it up and if it makes them feel good, then they should do it.

I can tell you, John, the income claims were just outrageous.

But as Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. one of our most renowned Supreme Court Justices, stated when deciding a land fraud case that emanated from the Colorado Courts:

” Should one man be prosecuted for having made the fool of another? ”

I think not. Plus, they are enjoying the Kool Aid.

Best of continued success at all you do, John.




Where are you from and what type of law do you practice?

I ask because sometimes we need an attorney in a state to do our trust work.



by: Andrew Worth | November 6th, 2009 (7:32 pm)

Primerica is a fools game. Takes people with little hope and offers an opportunity that fails 99%. If Agents feel they are doing good by selling Term insurance they may or may not be correct. however many companies sell Term and the costs for Primerica Policies are absurdly high. The average agent, especially Primerica Agents have no clue. They just compare classes for underwriting. Watch what happens when your client has a hangnail and he/she is rated. I guarantee that 75% of cases approved by Primerica are overpriced due to their underwriting and multi level system of compensation. Hey tell me Primerica gurus. What happens when your client is rated by Primerica and is charged X? Can you go to another company to get a competitive quote? answer is “no” so are you really looking to the best interest of your client or just pulling the Pyramid style scam?

Wow, truly impressive,amazing, insane.

This is a long post, discussing the same arguments over and over again. I came to the conclusion years ago some individuals will never see the light in the tunnel until the Train has comes upon them.
Both Companies discussed here (PFS & HBW) are Cults. The amount of brain washing is incredible. I am greatful that I was awaken early in my carrier to quit both.( I have tried 3 MLMs Companies). In neither Company the agent owns ANYTHING. Try selling your book of business in the Free Market. Yeah good luck. Most be bought by another Kool-aid drinking individual and the terms approved by the company. PFS is worse than HBW, more restrictive than the other. Both Companies like to flash their numbers around, but in both the agents are going broke.
PFS has over 100K agent and HBW over 20K, but in both only about .005% are making over $100K a year.
The top producers pray on the new gullible individuals coming into the business, stealing their commissions right under their eyes, with a smile on their faces. Most new agents don’t know better and some drink the pipe dream Kool-aid for awhile. Both Companies cap commissions per case at around $500-$1000. To protect the agent? nah, to protect the Companies from chargebacks. More so with PFS. Their chargebacks are astronomical. Once a client decides to shop around, he/she will drop the coverage due to inflated costs. Since MOST agents in both Comapnies have no idea of what they are doing, a lot of mistakes are made concerning suitability for the client.
Both companies are for recruiters, not for self-producers. You don’t recruit, money lost. Your commission has to put food on the table on the one that recruited you, the one that recruit him, and so on.
The sad part about all this is that most of their agents only know how to do business by recruiting and tapping the warm market from the new recruits. Once the recruit dries up, move on to the next. I have seen top producers in both Companies jump around from MLM to MLM every few years or so. After all, should you have a disagreement with the owners of either Comapny on how you should grow their business ( sry your business) you will quickly find yourself loosing everything. Don’t be fooled, most suscessful individuals in this business do it for themselves, owning their own personal Agency, not an MLM pipe dream.
I have countless stories from 3 different MLMs as mentioned before. All have the same pipe dream, different products or markets. As long as there are gullible people around, this type of Companies will survive. Remember the Rich lives of the Poor and the Intellectual over the Dumb.

Good Luck!!!

Most of you guys need it.

by: Answer This | November 23rd, 2009 (7:56 pm)

The truth: do you understand some agents at HBW have other outside products such as Health, P/C, Med Supps, Med. Advantage, etc.. or might be in a totally other profession. Go to the HBW web site and take a look at the compensation with different products. Then consider the new RIA program and that compensation.

At HBW the independent agents compensation may not just come from HBW. HBW has no recruiting requirements.

I know Exactly what HBW offers, I was appointed with them for about 3 years or so. If you don’t recruit with them you would be better off going elsewhere. The loss in commissions ranges between 5% to over 20% in some cases. Besides they cap most carriers at $500-$1000 per trade. (According to Level)

The RIA comensation is less as well. 70% commissions at the AVP level. If you do $100K plus in trades you just lost $25K-$30K in commissions. It is not a Comapny for the self-producer.

It is good if you like to recruit individuals and live of their earnings as described previously. Past that it is a typical MLM system with a different name. You own nothing.

HBW offers nothing I can’t do for myself while earning higher commissions. I truly own my Agency, I build it myself. I still make more than NDAs.

May want to consider this below:

Thank you, but no thanks.

by: representingtheclient | November 24th, 2009 (8:17 pm)

Sounds like you failed at all 3 marketing organizations. Caps are not uncommon throughout the industry. Come on Truth let the reader know that the rest is paid as earned. Some companies and many IMO”S pay everything as earned. So don’t try to make that a negative. Caps protects the agents and upline also. You just don’t know the business.

Is it really that hard to promote Truth? Tell the truth about those numbers. Do you really know what those numbers are? If they were the numbers you are trying to make them out to be, there would be no EVP’s or NDAs.

Readers do your own research so that you can make a decision not based off of the disgruntled failures. For instance, Richard in an earlier post says HBW is for the producer. The Truth says HBW is for the recruiter, Well which one is it? HBW is for the independent/recruiter/producer agent and more.

Let me clarify owning your business. You own your clients, build a big enough book of business sure some agent my buy it. But your agency. I have no intent on selling mine but I can see the issue because basically you can’t sell your team from up under your upline. It is his/her team also.

One last thing Truth since you have found success after 3 MLM’s, do you mind giving the reader the alternative? Tell them your step by step process that has made you successful.

The success of making it as a high income producer is not the result of having some magical produxct or compensation system.

Everyone has access to the same products, thera re no secret products in the industry.

If one company has a product, a copetitor has a similar product.

It is proprietary tools and a unique delivery system that allow the producer to operate in an arena that is, essentially, a non-competitive dominion.

New York Trust University, a division of New York Trust, does just that.

Pardon the typos in the previous message.

It is the result of not admitting I need glasses.

Representing the client you have responded by accusing me of been disgruntled, a failure, etc. Totalitarians always attack the Individual to defend their system. I’m commenting on the system.

It is true the most Companies if not all cap commissions at one point or another, and yes the remaining commissions would be paid out as earned. The Truth is that MLM cosiderably reduces those caps. Why? A lot of reasons, mainly to protect the Company from charge backs. Most recruits are greenies and are not properly trained and could make mistakes or face out rather quickly.

Lets apply numbers to the equation:

Lets assume an individual produces
A. 10 Life policies with a combined premium of $18,000 (10 Policies at $150/M).
B. 2 fixed annuities of $50K each @ 4% commission.
C. 1 investment with a GDC of $10K.

So far with me? Ok, good

HBW at the AVP level for the Life policies would yield in commissions. (Lets pick Genworth, which is a direct Carrier)

A. 10 policies @ 90% = $16,200 Commissions to the agent.
Compare to a NON- HBW Fully Independent high producer contract @ 105%. Results $18,500
Loss in Commissions= 18,500-16,200= $2,700

B. HBW Commissions for the Fixed Annuities at AVP level.
two $50K Premium annuities each at 4% commission.
$50K premium by 4%= $2,000 (90% HBW level) $1,800
$1,800 + $1,800= $3,600
NON-HBW agent fully Independent would make 100% of 4%
which would make it $4,000 commission
Loss in Commission= $400

C. Investment $10K GDC @ HBW AVP level 70% would yield in
commission= $7,000
NON-HBW fully Independent agent @95% would earn $9,500.
Loss in Commissions= $2,500

In all 3 examples the total loss in commissions added together would be $5,600 per month if those numbers are constant, even if the sale volume is not constant, the agent would have lost $5,600 in that given month.

So please don’t ell me it is a Company for the Self-Producer, numbers don’t lie. If you recruit and could make up the personal losses by recruit production, then you could hope to break even.

I fully undersatnd the system, you have to RECRUIT to break even or possibly make a profit. Eventually the recruits would yield enough passive income that you would be able to stop self producing. But at which cost, by telling gullible people it is the best system, you trully own your business from Day one, etc.

Be honest, the owner of HBW or any other MLM is the one that ownes the system, you are simply a franchise of that system.

Let me quote you:

“Let me clarify owning your business. You own your clients, build a big enough book of business sure some agent my buy it. But your agency. I have no intent on selling mine but I can see the issue because basically you can’t sell your team from up under your upline. It is his/her team also.”

True, You do own your book of business, not the agency. Its future is not dependent on you. You could have a disagreement with the owner and could be forced out, selling it falls upon his approval of the terms. Or the owner passes away and the successor has a different outlook of how the Company should carry on. Guess what happens to your so called agency it just disappear in a blink of an eye.

Don’t come here trying to fool people by repeating the cult mentallity you have been trained on for years. say I own a franchise in a certain MLM, don’t lie and say I own my agency.

I own my bussiness, have no boss to answer to, its future is dependent solely on me, I could sell it to anyone in THE OPEN MARKET by terms we both agree upon. No need to ask for permission, etc.
If you want to get in a heat discussion you have found the right person for that.

Go on and bring back your cult narrow minded responses.

Representing the Client, you asked what has made me suscessful after all 3 MLMs.

Probably doing the same as most. Be fully independent with the highest contracts available in order to retain as much as possible for me. After all, I just have to put food on my table not on my upline’s.

Like any good investment advice, diversify your Business.
How, by providing as much products as possible.
Life, Health, LTC, Disability, Investments, Mortages, Medicare (Supplemental or Advantage), etc.

Do your homework and find the best Companies for the products you are looking to provide.

After many years in the Business I could say this with certainty.
Not a single Carrier or Company that is good today is guaranteed to be good in the future. The Market evolves and so do you.

And the best advice is Do to your Clients as you would to your parents. Sometimes you have to walk away from the sale or chose the lowest commission product for the client’s sake.

Most products that truly favor the client does not always favor the producer.

And lastly GET as far away as possible from MLMs as you could.
Strive to open your own business. Most MLM agents move around from MLM to MLM always seeking something that is not there “OWNERSHIP”.

Definition of insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.”

MLMs are a shortcut to ownership, sounds familiar?
A Franchise does just that. But a smart person knows that a franchise’s owner is controlled by the Corporate office, and so are you representingtheclient.

In the Life Equation I made a mistake in my numbers

the Corrected math for the $18,000 @ 105% is $18,900.
The substraction was correct, but the input figure was wrong.

Just Incase any of you guys want to pick on that in order to deviate from the topic.

I feel compelled to give more thorough instructions on how to step by step help to grow or set up a business as asked previously. My prior answer was not detailed enough.

This is meant for the humble at heart looking for guidance on how to start and not for the sharks roaming the waters.

If you are new to this business and are seeking to earn extra income for your family, this should be helpful.

If you are returning to the business after a break then jump to step 5.

1. Get fully licensed in Health, Life & Variable Annuities, Mortages and Securities. I do recommend leaving Securities for last, since this is a costly License to maintain. Its costs usually start around $2000 plus per year to keep current, It dues consist of B/D affiliation fees , E&O Insurance, and State fees.

2. seek training, this is usually easier said than done. Consider joining a Captive Company that would pay you a salary while in training. Keep in mind this would not be a long lasting benefit for you nor your client. Not one Carrier would fit everyone. this is not a one size fits all industry, and every client’s needs are different.

3. If option 2 is not attainable, then look for a Coach that would teach and whose main interest is not overriding commissions from you. Some charge a fee for this service, some do it for free.

4. If step 3 is not attainable, then look for an MLM system to teach you, becareful not to drink and swallow the Kool-aid,
This too is not the best option, but could be a starting point.
they are consider Franchises and not a true ownership of a business. Most if not all charge a set-up fee to get started.

steps1-4 should be done in that order.

5. Once you have grasped the basics, seek to open you own Corporation or LLC. Seek advice on this, since this will be the foundation of your business. You could do this yourself by going to your State’s Gov. website which instructs on its guidelines and requirements. Or see a CPA which should charge around $300-$500 to do so. all other third party individuals will be much higher than that. But you could save money by doing it yourself, if you understand the process.

6. Doing step 4 will yield Tax advantages and write offs. It is also a most for a business to be born.

7.Look for an IMO or GA that has preferably 30 plus Companies under their portfolio, advances commissions and pays high commissions. This will requiere a lot of work, but attainelable.
It will feel like car shopping, since some of them like to negotiate commissions. Avoid commissions that are based on PRODUCTION.

8. Appoint your Corporation or LLC under the IMO or GA you found right for you. Then appoint all your contracts under your Corporation’s or LLC’s name.

9. Under the Health Insurance platform, most carriers allow the agent to appoint directly thru the Carrier, bypassing any IMO or GA. This is Typically the best option.

10. Look for a Broker/dealer for your Securities License. Most be an Independent B/D. Low Productions limits vary wildly, so due deligence is required.

11. Pick a B/D and keep your Life and Fixed Business separate from that B/D that you have just picked. Some B/Ds have a fixed division within their Company that handles that business. You will keep more indenpendence by keeping them apart.

12. FULLY disclose all Outside Business Activities (OBA) with that broker dealer. It is the LAW.

13. Keep current with the markets changing conditions and products.

14. Ensure the carriers you use, have the same products and benefits for the future prospect. Carriers upgrade, downgrade, or drop certain products from time to time. KEEP on top of it.
Your business depends on you been competitive.

I think this should be enough for now. feel free to post comments or ask for questions.

Good Luck!!!

Correction to step 6. The answer is step 5 not 4.

Why do MLM insurance marketing organizations make you recruit?

Well, there are a number of reasons but we will give you the main ones:

These organizations recruit the “ not too bright ” because they can control them with a dream, give them some silly promotion and even sillier title. Of course, nothing works like a nickname, an alter identity, if you will.

The guy who comes in and he is roofer by day and now he is going to be a part-time financial genius by night.

Now, no one has said anything positive to him for years other than how good his is at carrying shingles. But now, he gets in an organization where they are recognizing him because some up line has dubbed him, “ Joey the Hammer. ”

He’s hooked. Now, all that has to be done with him is keep giving him little sips of Kool-Aid and he will be led around by the nose and do whatever the organization tells him to do. Like…go recruit everyone he knows.

See, Joey is just the shill because the people he is recruiting know his talent-level and they are thinking, “ If this guy can make it here what can I do. ”

Of course, he hasn’t really done anything or learned anything other than get a title like “ Regional Manager. ”
And, of course, “ Joey the Hammer. ”

These organizations will recruit anyone though, except, the supposedly bright. Look through your organization and see how many people there are accountants, attorneys or professional people.
Is it because professionals don’t want to make that $300,000 a year income, like you’re up line is supposedly making? After all, these professionals are probably not making that income.
No, it is because your organization does not want people who can reason out that this is a farcical charade being carried out. They do not need anyone in there pointing out what is wrong with the system.
Often, the worker bees are told not to recruit these professional types because “ they won’t understand the system.” Now really!
Do you really believe that a CPA won’t be able to comprehend what Joey the Hammer did…or thinks he did…or was TOLD he did.

You must recruit because you will make extremely little on your own for two reasons:

·The first is that you probably do not have the credentials for people to concede a certain knowledge base to you whereby you could present yourself in a favorable enough light to work as a professional. Therefore, you are excluded from working with professionals and, in turn, shut out from the high premium markets.

·The second is that professional business people and the wealthier person are seeking tax advantageous vehicles that will serve them, their family and their business well, while excluding their Uncle Sam.

Some insurance salesman, pitching his term product with a return of premium as his flagship product won’t even be able to get an appointment with these people.

What does your organization have, for you, to work in the professional market place?

Don’t think too long because the answer is none.

What skills or credentials do YOU have to work in the professional market place? Okay, even though that answer took you longer, YOU know the truth.

Remember, the only face you can’t lie to is that one you see in the mirror when you are shaving in the morning.

So, you have to recruit because the products you have only generate small commissions. Unless, you think a $700 commission is large.

And your product with the $700 commission does not play in the professional market place. You can only sell that one to the people you recruit.

Remember the company mantra: “ How can you be out there selling this policy, if you don’t own one? Clients will ask to see your policy; you better have one in your briefcase. ”

So, your organization’s remedy is “ go recruit and get enough people in your down line selling something and buying something, so you get large overrides and make a fortune”

Whew! That was a mouthful.

Do you see attorneys or accountants recruiting? Know why? They have a service that appeals to other professionals, as well as ordinary people and they get to charge whatever they want.

In closing, understand that it is not the products that you have that is the problem. It is the design and the delivery method.

Life insurance and annuities are…WELL, just life insurance and annuities.

But linked in the right fashion they have great appeal to the high-end markets when you can discuss internal rate of return versus market performance.

Or go on to show a client how the steady, GUARANTEES of a fixed instrument will outperform the vagaries and maybes of the stock market.

Or show a client how to avoid the capitals gains and depreciation recapture on the sale of his commercial property and leverage that out four fold to deliver a tax-free inheritance to his family.

It is all how you use a product. Think of this, for a moment

>A 5-pound bar of steel makes a great doorstop.
>You could also cut it into 5 1-pound pieces and have 5 doorstops because one piece will work effectively also.
>You can make two pairs of horseshoes that sell for about $18 a pair
>You can make hypodermic needles that would be valued at $3,500.
>Or you can make springs for Rolex watches with a value of $300,000

It is up to you. Do you want to make doorstops or Rolex springs?

The people who will take the time to learn the high-end market do not need a down line because they can make $300,000 a year on their own. And you do not need any special degree to do this.

And until you can do this or will take the time to learn it, you MUST keep recruiting.

But don’t look to your organization to supply this strategies because they are only interested in rounding up the uncomplaining, easy to lead sheep.

by: Answer This | November 26th, 2009 (3:13 pm)

This is good a good read..Great job everyone..

To expand a bit on the previous post.

The average person is more than well capable of working in the high-end market, wherby they can have a professional practice and be an army of one.

Where do you learn this? Not in some CFP course because they are not teaching the real intricate strategies.

Well, I do know a place because that is all my company does.

The high end market is one of credentials and networking. But when you can bring something to the high end market that they are not familar with, your credentials don’t even come into play.

Think of the corporate world where you have 10,000 people with the same degree, the same experience and in the same field looking for 50 jobs.

The personnel team has to have some way to separate the herd, so they use elements like:

>Where dd you go to school?
>What was your GPA?
>What was your minor?
>Are you currenrtly pursuing a Masters degree etc

Now, let’s take that same scenario down to the insurance business.

>You have the same products as everyone else.
>The same training as everyone else (if any)
>And you are in the business because you were told there was a lot of money to be made in it.

So, how do you differentiate yourself?

I will just give a snippet of what can be done differently.

Imagine you were a business person, realtor, attorney, accountant or investor and received a letter, even unsolicited, without any referral whatsoever from your network of contacts, and it read:


I am contacting you and will be exceptionally brief, as it is not my intention to usurp your valuable time.

By way of introduction, I am ___________, and I can assure you that we have never met but, perhaps, we may have a reason to do so, in the future.

My practice is somewhat specialized inasmuch as I have strategies culled from the U.S.Tax Code that will allow for the sale of highly-appreciated assets such as stocks and real estate without any capital gains.

My strategies will have even more of a tax impact wiith commercial real estate, as they will also allow for the avoidance of depreciation recapture tax.

Assumedly, you already have tax advisors diligently working on your behalf and my strategies will work in comcert with their knowledgeable skills.

Furthermore, these same strategies will allow that significant assets be able to pass totally tax free to your heirs.

If you have any interest in discussing these matters, I would welcome the opportunity to meet with you, at which time you will see that brevity is my hallamark, as we review a 15 minute lap top presentation.

Thanks for taking the time to read this letter and best of continued success in all your endeavors.


John Smith

They will respond and not one of them will ever ask you about:

>Where did you go to school?
>What was your grade point average?
>What was your minor?
>How long have you been in the business?
>Are you a CFP?

All they want to know is how can you do what you said you can do in the letter you sent because they have never even heard of this before.

And learning how to do just that requires being able to read at a 6th grade level and do math at a 5th grade level.

I know…I teach it.

The hardest math is understanding $40,000-$80,000 commissions.

Those excluded from the real money making markets are excluding themselves because instead of learning enough to have your own professional, you are reliant upon plugging into some minor earning system of an insurance organization whre you MUST recruit. And settle for the table crumbs.

You are where you are and you earn what you earn because of your own decisions NOT because you cannot learn more.

The letter you read is but one of, perhaps, that make clients re[pond to you to see the specualized prcatice you say you have.

But all the letters mean absolutely nothing, if you cannot legityimately produce what you say you can do.

Apologies for typos of specialize practice respond and legitimately.

by: Answer This | December 2nd, 2009 (4:50 pm)

Dr. M. you make some very good points. Which is why I think the RIA (series 65) business is going to be something big. AUM….

RIA is okay and some people will move to that by taking the botique approach as opposed to working with some big firm.

The attractiveness of the big firm has waned cosiderably, in light of the transgressions of Wall St., and justifiably so.

The money mavens who were thought to be doing due diligence, addressed matters with a cursory wink and a nod while investors lost trillions.

I don’t believe I can advertise what I do or even put a link in a post. But if you will e-mail me , I will send you what the future of the industry will be.

by: Peter Cramer | December 12th, 2009 (4:17 am)

There are so many things wrong with the Primerica model. Let’s just give them the benefit of the doubt for a moment and suggest that Term Insurance is the only insurance to buy and that Permanent coverage is always a ripoff as they state. Let’s also say that anyone can sell Term with little or no training other than their FNA computer generated calculator. We will also assume that we find it okay to recruit everyone who stands within 5 feet of you and you don’t find this practice sleazy and offensive. Let’s also assume that you find it okay to go through 50 plus people to find one RVP and want your career to depend on the production of others while you recruit. So all this is okay, right. By the way the numbers are worse than 1 in 50. 1 in 50 probably keep their contract open just in case they throw a Term case in here and there. That’s why they have over a hundred thousand Agents and claim to be the largest sales Marketing Co. in North America. 95% produce nothing or next to nothing. A bunch of RVP’s push through the system and make it big by recruiting like crazy people and having them sell their entire warm market. They never talk about their policy lapse rate because it’s off the charts. Once your friend, parent etc. purchases a policy and you leave the company policies lapse because warm market loyalties are gone and everyone realizes that they can do better anywhere else

Now here are some indisputable facts. You are a Primerica Agent and you only can sell Primerica Term products according to your contract. Compare the cost of 50 Term contracts and see how competitive they are in the market. Their costs are insane due to their need to compensate on a MLM platform. Their underwriting is horrendous where no one gets the benefit of the doubt when a case can go either rated or not unless you have clout and are an RVP and willing to send the policy back for a reconsideration and wait another month to deliver the policy to the client. Most won’t bother and take the extra commission on the rated case. After all their warm market trusts them by that point.

If you need Term Insurance and believe that’s the best route and don’t want to open your mind to the benefits of any permanent coverage at least sop around for a strong rated carrier with costs lower than Primerica. It’s easy to find in 100% of the cases, I promise. If your 25 – 45 and in perfect health the company is more competitive but still loses in 80% of the cases

By the way if any Primerica wants to debate this i would be more than happy. Also if you want to say that Primericas Term policies are different because they can be renewed up to age 100 with Guaranteed Insurability then just look at the % of Term policies which actually pay DB’s in this country. Maybe 1.5% which isn’t very much considering premature death to accident or illness. Obviously renewing your policy after the Term period is still ridiculous with Primericas rational unless you are terminally ill.

Go for it SNVP’s Give it your best shot. You have all become great spin Drs.!

by: Answer This | December 21st, 2009 (2:28 pm)

For all those who celebrate let me say “Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year”.

Hey Answer This,

Did you hear about the IPO? So does that mean you will join Primerica? The paperwork they filed with the SEC mentions stock options for agents.

by: Answer This | February 10th, 2009 (2:33 pm) “Bypass the middle man. Hey if Primerica does do an IPO, i’m in. I may not like the contact, but i’m no fool.”

by: Answer This | December 24th, 2009 (4:51 pm)

My meaning was I would buy some public offered stock. There would have to be MAJOR changes for me to consider going back to PFS. I still remember the letter from the Legal department when I left. Return all apps and brochures (Which I paid for) and the noncompete along with the limitations of how I could run “My” business…

For me it’s a business decision. Primerica has a right to run their business as they see fit and as an independent agent who is an independent contractor I think I should also have that right also.

Here’s something to consider. When I left PFS I had to leave everything behind. Clients, recruits and return materials. If I currently decided to go back to PFS I could bring all my agents and clients if they so choose to come with me. Now once I signed the PFS contract they would become the property of PFS. Not to mention they would probably try to get me to give up the PPL business (Nationwide and Canada) I have built also. It’s nothing personal, it’s business.

It’s PFS that taught me it’s in my best interest to consider what’s in my best business interest. They do what’s in their business best interest. As proof just consider agents are 1099 and not W-2…

Nope not going back. I would be a Cancer in a base shop. Why, because the title of RVP and above doesn’t impress me and I wouldn’t drink the kool-aid…

I submitted my IBA to Primerica in November and have already attended required state courses to sit for my licensing test. However, they have not approved me as a rep and will not send in my paperwork to to the state insurance commissioner’s office to schedule my state test because of a potential “conflict of interest”. I am a law school graduate with my own legal document preparation business and I hold a Real Estate Broker’s license. I have had to submit three letters in a two week period explaining what I do and don’t do as far as my business is concerned. Apparently, it’s easier to join Primerica if you are a high school drop out with no prior business experience. Hard to understand but I am patiently waiting for them to “clear” me so that I can become a rep.


This is from a previous post of November 26th, 2009″
These organizations will recruit anyone though, except, the supposedly bright. Look through your organization and see how many people there are accountants, attorneys or professional people.
Is it because professionals don’t want to make that $300,000 a year income, like you’re up line is supposedly making? After all, these professionals are probably not making that income.
No, it is because your organization does not want people who can reason out that this is a farcical charade being carried out. They do not need anyone in there pointing out what is wrong with the system.
Often, the worker bees are told not to recruit these professional types because “ they won’t understand the system.” Now really!

Annette, you are their worst nightmare. They are only looking for the sheep to be led around.

Contact me at: and I will show you something that matches your credentials.


Dr. Francis John Maguire, Ph.D.

Annette, based on the COI table, the issue may have nothing to do with your legal business and more with the REB License. Then again, if all you are doing is maintaining it (and not using it), and you don’t refer clients back and forth between your legal prep business and PFS, there shouldn’t be an issue.

Hold out till the changes are announced on Jan 4th. Will probably make it easier then.

For the rest of you that have missed me, bite me. Despite what you guys say, you really have no idea what is about to happen to Primerica AND the industry as a whole. New laws reigning in what you guys have been doing, restricting even more what you can’t and can do, and NONE of it affects Primerica. How odd that they are placing new laws to protect consumers and they don’t affect Primerica, but they do affect almost every other company in the financial services industry. Something to think about.

Richard, how could you say new Laws are being implemented in the Financial System, and those laws Don’t affect Primerica?

Don’t you practice Financial services? Annette, there you see the type of mentality Primerica agents have. They are Financial
Planners (So they say) and the changes don’t affect them, but do everyone else. Is there something wrong with that picture?

Dr. Francis hit it right on the head with his comments. Non- Intellectual individuals is what they seek.

Also, be wary of what anyone here tries to sell you. Bunch of ” Turn-Key opportunities”. most are scams.

Follow my post from Nov. 25th. Probably the safest bet if you are or want to stay independent.

Good Luck!!!

I can’t believe I just read that!!!…”It does’nt affect Primerica but it does everyone else”…
The only common sense reason would be if they are no longer being able to sell, them being stripped of their license to sell. Is that what’s going to happen, Richard?

Actually, the laws being put in place are to protect consumers. Primerica already has tighter standards than what is being proposed, thus the news laws don’t affect it. And last I heard (this part is hearsay, but from a credible source), the companies YOU represent are asking for Primerica to be EXEMPT from said laws. Said source also commented that it was a unanimous request.

As a whole, Primerica has, and continues, to do what is right by the client. There have been many cases where home office has denied sales because it would not benefit clients. When was the last time any of your company turned away money because it would hurt a client?

So I ask again, since the new laws really don’t affect Primerica, what does that say about all the companies that they WILL affect?

Richard, that is called a Compliance Dept., all companies have one. In the case of Primerica, more cases are turned back due to poor knowledge and training of the agents from the Company.

Afterall most of the training there is how to recruit, not products. If Primerica cares for the consumer so MUCH, maybe they should consider lowering the premiums of their products, and allow agents to sell other products that would benefit the client further.

I personally love to go to a client that a Primerica agent serviced, one of the easiest sales to complete.

Could’nt of said it better!!!

by: Answer This | December 28th, 2009 (7:33 pm)

What are the new laws??????????????????????

Annette if your in the US contact your insurance department and find out if you are required to have a company sponsor you to sit for the test. If not find out what you have to do to sit for the test. Then you can find outer marketing organization or contract directly with certain carriers.Hopefully you will be able to use the attended class for prelicensing requirements.

Here’s what’s going to happen. Your going to get licensed and appointed with PFS. At some point your going to talk to other people within the industry and find out you can do better per contract and offer your clients better products elsewhere.

Here’s something else to consider. As your a Real Estate Professional and Doc. preparer (Conflict with the PPLP Plan) you have a ready made client base. When I was at PFS the RVP had an option to start people at different levels. Considering what you potentially bring to the table, why not ask for a jump in commission level.

One more question. Why was the IBA submitted before Annette’s potential conflicts researched? I would think the RVP should have seen the potential conflict on the front end.

Truth, there is compliance, and then there is Primerica’s compliance. Most of the training I receive is NOT on recruiting. It is on everything. Product training, competitor product training, recruiting, etc.

Primerica’s prices are competitive and priced according to actual cost, not selling at a loss. Everyone else sells cash value type policies to make up the losses they incur selling term. For every term policy sold, I believe there are 4 or 5 cash value policies sold in the US.

AT: From what I have found, they involve full disclosure of ALL details regarding insurance, loans, and investments as well as more suitability rules for investments. As a whole, Primerica already practices full disclosure (yea, some agents don’t) as well as appropriate suitability.

Annette, based on what I saw on the COL page, your legal business is not the conflict (could be with regard to the client base), it’s the RE Broker license.

Annette, despite the competition telling you to go elsewhere, it sounds like you want to be with Primerica. Being of intelligence tells me you did your research before hand.

Remember, you never know you are doing something great unless you have massive amounts of protest. On average, there are 4 or 5 “enemy agents” to every PFS agent commenting online. Just like this comment thread. Based on what I have seen, Primerica is being excluded (per request of the competition) from new regulation for ALREADY doing what is right.

Every time the competition has tried shutting PFS down, Primerica got stronger. To this day, they still don’t compete face to face. I’ve yet to have an agent confrontation, in front of a client, that I did not win. Even had one agent, after all was said and done, RECOMMEND the client do business with me. Despite what these guys say, do what feels right to you and stick to your guns. They quit and changed companies based on what was best for them.

Richard, Tell me again what PFS offers that I could not?
Life, VA, Mortgages, Financial Planning, LTC, Disability. I could do all those as well as Health and Medicare.

Do you actually think for yourself or does your RVP do that for you?. I mean you could talk all this nonsense all day long, but numbers don’t lie.

Get this thru your head if mentally possible, You Sir are CAPTIVE. Could only sell PFS products. You don’t have the ability to compete, the only arguement you have is comparing UL to Term. What about Term to Term? What Company on Earth sells a product at a loss?

Everyone else sells cash values? Really, I hardly do. Only for high Networth Individuals and for Estate Tax purposes most of the time.

Stop writting statements and back it up with numbers, quote me a 30YR Term for an Individual who is 45M( Preferred), a 38F(Standard) and a 58M(Preferred) 2 non smokers and 1 smoker.
Supprise me. Lets keep the Terms simple and no riders.

Would you like to quote Mortages as well? LTC or Disability?
Investments? You would be blown out of the water with Investments so don’t even go there.

PFS Agents are by far the most cult thinking Indidviduals I have ever met. You show them the numbers and argue with them about products and diversity, all they could do is answer with the same retarded comments.

Please proof to me that you have a brain? Heck to everyone that reads this post, because after all this you have not done so.

You win all of your Agent confrontations? Who are you Confronting?

Your arguement is flawed like the guy from HBW, although he is 10 times better off than you.

PFS is better, we have better compliance, our product fits everyone ( Like a baseball hat, one size fits all), agents else where only care abou themselves and not the client, etc.

SHOW me the NUMBERS!!!!

All PFS agents care about is hierchy and overriding commissions, not knowledge or diversity, saving the client money.

I have been having the same discussion with these characters for years.

Truth, you do know how to read don’t you? I have posted many times before that I know I am captive. I know I can get paid better elsewhere (for now anyways). I know I can offer more products elsewhere. I also know that when I find a better product, I recommend the client get it. Even when not with me.

We can quote all day long and compare prices all day long. All that proves is nothing. Many companies do sell at a loss in hopes of making it up on the back end or via other products offered. Most life insurance companies sell term at a loss and make it up with cash value. Printer manufactures sell printers at a near loss and make it up with ink. Sony sells the PS3 at a loss and makes it up with licensing contracts on the games. Companies do it all the time. With the face you didn’t know that tells me you don’t have much of a clue about business strategies.

I talk with my RVP only when I have questions (which is rare). Beyond that, we really don’t speak much. I’ve even taught him a thing or two.

As for who I’m confronting, only the agents that are still green. The experienced ones never come out and are barely ever get them on the phone. Yes, even the CFPs.

PFS DOES have better compliance, the product dose NOT fit everyone (whom ever told you that lied to you), most agents I have dealt with from other companies are more concerned with the commission payouts than what is best for the client. I do find the occasional gem though.

If it’s the same discussion year of year, why do you keep wasting your time with it? Why not keep doing the better job you say you do? I’ve been gone for so long doing just that. Only came back because I just got back from out of town. Will probably disappear shortly to go save more families from the real scammers that are out there in this industry.

by: Answer This | December 28th, 2009 (9:15 pm)

Richard some of us who left PFS did not quit PFS. Our eyes were just opened to other opportunities. As I can only speak for me I did make a business decision that was within my best interest. There is a business side to all this which PFS shows by having everyone sign a contract.

It just doesn’t make any sense to be captive especially if it’s just part-time. As for training I have a hard enough time keeping up with all the product changes. You see outside of PFS you don’t have to think. There’s a reason you have limited product offerings. Keep it simple so you can hire the masses. Yet all this is nothing new.

As for enemy agents there’s no such thing. Most of the information given can be verified by reading the IBA or just doing some quotes. It’s kind of hard to debate with people who have been inside and outside of PFS. Things may have changed over the years, but things still remain the same.

Primerica is not a threat to anyone. Period.

by: Answer This | December 28th, 2009 (9:19 pm)

Opps. I made a boo boo.. It should read inside of PFS you don’t have to think.

(You see outside of PFS you don’t have to think. )

Richard, you keep contradicting yourself. How could PFS be better off for the client and yet me more expensive?

As a client would you like to pay $50 for a Term or $80. Assuming both are A rated, which would you chose?

If PFS is the $80 one, is that better for the Client? Let go a step
further and invest the clients $30 into a mutual fund, assuming a long term yield of 8% for 30yrs in a tax shelter product.
Result= $44,045

Would it be better for the client to save $30/M and have $44,045 after 30yrs or not?

Again, I asked you to support your comments with facts not sale pitches. No one told me PFS is a product that fits everyone like a hat, but you have to believe that, in order to sell it to everyone you meet. So who serves the client better, the Independent agent that is greedy and goes after commissions or the Captive PFS agent that is Blinded by overrides and over charges the client. Again let the math answer the dispute.

You have the nerve to tell me, I don’t know how to run a business and have the right strategies to do so and yet you are the one that is captive. Really!!!

How could comparing prices not prove anything? I’ll go ahead and use analogies as you like to do.

If you were car shopping, would you shop around for the best price? or the cheaper price possible does not mean anything?

Lets stick to the clients perpective and not to recruiting, since that is the only responce you could provide. If the client is not to be recruited, your products are inferior due to its greater cost.

A client seeking Financial Planning does not want to be recruited, he wants Financial Planning. Therefore most high networth clients are off limit to you, due to the lack of diversity
you would provide. Lets be honest, most high networth clients have some sort of common sense and would compare your products to others out there.

Most of your clientele are referrals from your recruit’s warm market being suckered into purchasing over priced products with the promise of overrides from recruiting.

Again, provide facts that would make an outsider think you have better products. Math tends to be the best possible way to express this, since numbers don’t lie.

I’m waiting!!!

The reason I write back to posts like these is to keep Individuals from being sucked dry my MLM scams with flase ownership dreams and hopes.

You say “save families”, I say suck them dry with over priced products.

AT, My eyes have been opened to other opportunities many times. I CHOOSE Primerica because it truly is better for my clients. Every policy pickup I have done from “better” companies have clauses, that once explained to the clients, they don’t like. Even ones that are cheaper. Take a look at renewals. Priced cheaper first set of years then skyrocket afterwards. Yes most term policies do this, Primerica’s not so much.

Being captive is not as bad as many make it to be. I’m a business owner first, was BEFORE I signed with Primerica. I read the contracts, the policies, etc. Primerica beat out everyone else on what mattered most, VALUE.

Truth, you assume we can’t take care of high net worth clients. True they are not are target market, but we still take care of them. Many do do due diligence, they still come back. I’ve taken a few from independents. But wait, how can a know nothing Primerica agent EVER take business away from an experienced agent? Simple. Do what’s right from the beginning.

And if you knew what the true definition of a MLM really was, you wouldn’t classify Primerica with it. 3 things are required.

1) Can NEVER make more than your recruiter.
2) Can NEVER get promoted ABOVE your recruiting.
3) Can’t sell securities.

Primerica –

1) CAN MAKE more than your recruiter
2) CAN GET promoted ABOVE your recruiting
3) CAN sell securities.

And frankly Truth, you seem more like an agent that got burned one to many times by many other agents, including Primerica ones, and just want to talk shit.

And I’m tired of dealing with you guys. I’m heading out to do what you and your kind haven’t done. Help those 80% you can’t profit from. After all, they don’t have enough assets for you to invest your time into them, despite the fact they can be your greatest resource.

If anyone comes here looking for info on PFS. Take notes and ask questions of the person that you spoke with. If they don’t answer your question, go above them. Get the facts FROM THE SOURCE, not from random people online whom you’ve never met and probably never will. At the very least, get an FNA done. Even if you don’t do business, you’ll be better off.

To the agents that will no doubt respond, remember this. Primerica is changing and about to be fully unleashed. Get ready, you are about to be put on your heads. I expect the landscape to dramatically change in the next 5 years with less than half of current insurers standing. Primeirca already caused one massive consolidation, it’s time for another one.

Richard, again you keep going around the numbers. It is expected. When confronted, the best answer is not to answer.

If a FNA is properly done an Individual purchasing a 30Yr. Term would not need to renew it after years. The investments would be inplace to compensate the Term Face amount that would be lapsing. The Primary Home should have been paid off by then and the dependents would have been self supporters by then.(ofcourse many clients don’t stick to the FNA in the first place, but that is a different topic)

Have you forgotten that PFS has an insane amount of charge backs? Why is that? could it be its price of the premiums?

PFS beat most out there in Value, depends what your values are, doesn’t?. If saving money is one of those values, then PFS is not for you. If recruiting is for you, then others MLMs would fit better.

Read my prior posts, I have not been burned, nor Do I hold a grudge of any kind. I’m just expressing the facts backed with numbers. I mention before that there are better ways to do the same thing as you proclaim you do. Read the PRIOR posts.

Just because PFS products differ from other MLM does not mean it is not an MLM.

Do you Recruit? Do you make commissions over the recruits?
is there a hierchy in place? are there opportunity meetings?
is there a fee to join? How is this not a MLM? if it looks like a chicken and sounds like a chicken, then it is a chicken. Just a different species that’s all.

I agree that a lot of Indipendenst agents don’t care enough about the client and so do some PFS agents.

You are tired of dealing with us, is it because it is tiring to come up with answers to evade the original ones? THAT would be tiring.

Like Answer this said prior,” PFS is not a thread to anyone out there”. Do you have your niche, sure. Most your niche is the middle class that is struggling the most and they are the ones you guys prey on.

What on Earth makes you think most of us ignore the Middle class or the 80% as you call them?

PFS caused a massive consilidation? are you serious? Citi bank can’t get rid of PFS, no one would buy it.

I’m still waiting for you to have a seriuos discussion. DO yorself favor, go back to your main office, listen to the opportunity meetings, talk to your RVP, drink the Kool-aid and then suck your thumb.

Correction: Do yourself a favor*

by: Answer This | December 29th, 2009 (4:01 am)

Richard I still say at some point for you it’s going to click. If not compensation it may take a delivering a death claim. Next time someone in your office delivers one consider how much more the family could have received if they were offered another carrier.

I sold PFS policies to my family and friends using some of the justifications you use. Well at some point I woke up.

The FNA is a guide to justify higher premiums. Look at this great document that we don’t charge you. This is not a working document (it’s static) and I assure you that the only good financial documents are ones that people follow. The FNA needs to be redone constantly and the Agent needs to understand investing to make this work. Primerica does neither cause their Agents have little training. nobody gets rewarded in the Primerica system for investing. It’s all selling Life products to warm markets of recruits. There are working documents for the middle class that blow the FNA away and for anyone with any real money to invest there are more considerations then walking around like a bunch of buffoons telling everyone all permanent insurance is a scam. May not be for everyone. Ask any Primerica Agent to explain how other policies work and all they tell you is you don’t get both the Death Benefit & Cash Value when you die. You don’t need to like the concept however there are much less expensive Term policies if that’s what you desire. I choose to leave my children & charities a legacy. Primerica strategies are based on pure survival. Putting it bluntly Primerica Agents need to get a life

By the way. I have a close contact at Primerica and was told that Primerica Term policies pay out Death claims at exactly the same % as all other Term Carriers. This means that the cost after the Term period expires is meaningless. You are clearly better off converting a policy then paying annual renewable with Primerica extended rates. Just a sales pitch

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by: Answer This | December 30th, 2009 (6:39 pm)

For you new PFS reps.,here is an example why you should always stress that potential clients answer all questions truthfully.

Primerica has the largest sales force in the country and if they would just invoke a strategy of actually teaching their people something of value, as opposed to recruitm recruit, recruit, they could be the most successful comapny in the industry.

Now, before any Primerixa agent chimes in with ” we are already the most successful. ”

Stop drinkng the Kool-Aid and learn to read a corpoprate balance sheet.


by: Answer this | January 3rd, 2010 (7:17 pm)

It’s 2010. I wonder how many PFS agents should I bring on my team?

by: Answer This | January 4th, 2010 (2:24 am)

Hello again PFS people. Here’s something I just thought about. You guys teach two concepts. Bypass the middle man and Buy Term And Invest The Difference.

Well here’s the thought. You guys still sell the PLPP Plan (Legal Plan)
well from what I remember is you don’t earn renewals on that product until you hit RVP. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Next you say buy term and start a side fund for long term saving/investing to basically self insure.

Here’s the catch. Under the position of RVP what renewals do you earn. Outside of Primerica an agent could sell their clients a term Policy and a set them up with a side fund. They can also sign up with Pre-paid legal directly and after 16 months earn renewals from the business they produce and their downline. They can have ownership after 12 months ( No position requIrements) and have the ability to give the business to the next generation or sell it.

What are the current conditions for ownership for PFS agents? When PFS agents sell a PLPP Plan who owns that client? When are renewals earned? For just for a moment consider the rule of 72. Knowing what you know how much faster could you reach your Financial Independence Number if you were paid renewals? When do LTC sales pay renewals? Are you in business for yourself or for the company? God, family, business or is it God , business, family?

Bypass the middle man (PFS). Be independent and build two separate businesses. Yes even on a part-time basis. Building with PPL has another plus. In most states and Canada there’s no licensing requirement. If there is a licensing requirement in most cases it’s just paying a fee. How many people have you come across who couldn’t pass the licensing test or just didn’t want to take the test but still wanted to build a business? You see some of those people I just plug into my PPL, and other no license required product lines. Bypass the middle man. What a great concept.

Richard. You still buying that stuff?
1- Not true that most term policies increase. You go ahead and say this as if it was true but we all know it is not and you still have to conted with yours being guaranteed only for the first 20 years and then becoming ART with no open choice way to stabilze it. Do you read that clause to your clients?
2- Captive you are and no you don’t own a business there. Please show anyone your articles of incorporation aside from recent events proving to eveyone how delusional that “I own my business” idea is.
3- What value? don’t just throw the word “value” stop avoiding the truth. How can a highly expensive, non freely converible, non guaranteed level beyond 20 years unisex outdated product be valuable? Exactly what value does anyone get by paying high premius there?
4- How can someone who is limited to one company claim to do what is right? What is right according to you? If someone could pay less with a guaranteed level product elsewhere do you tell them to buy it or yours?
5- Can make more than your recruiter? What are you brainwashed? Your are a new guy at 25% recruited by an RVP 95%… Who keeps the 70% spread genius? We all know all MLMs want to promote active over stagnant agents so don’t come here trying to make anyone think being able to be promoted above your upline is some rare quality. No one prevents anyone from selling securities what is that pointless point all about?
6- Everyone is always someone who didn’t succeed, who got burned and blah, blah. Maybe you just don’t know what you are talking about, maybe you are the one burning yourself and your clients. Abusing them with high premiums and lack of choice due to your contract limits. Maybe we know better than you and the one talking smack is you!
7- Enjoy the massive implosion you got going and right now you are the one on your head not knowing how to deal with change. They caused nothing, they got run down and their owner is selling stock to the only crowd who would buy it. The ones that believe all the propaganda told to them and refuse to see the truth. You are irrelevant to them and for all your faith you were betrayed. All assets were pulled from under the agency and now it has nothing relatively. You say what you want but we told you years ago and now despite the clear evident debacle you have in your hands you wish to remain ignorant. Good luck to you but you are not going to learn anything until they put a lock on the office door and chage the sign to Chu’s Restaurant. Heck even then you might sit in there waiting for some RVP to give a speech as to how much he loves overriding gullible agents.

by: representingtheclient | January 19th, 2010 (12:16 pm)

3X’s failure, because you are not “the truth” That link you posted is not the true numbers. That is why I called you a failure. The “Truth” that you tried 3 different organizations and you failed.

People and agents are joining Primerica, HBW, and I am sure you 3rd organization that you failed and are making money so most likely it is you that is the problem. You admit that I am in 10x’s a better place than the Primerica agent. Wow thank you. But the “Truth” is that even though they have one insurance product and a lot of limitations than most other organizations, people are still joining and making money. So what happened with you at HBW? If you made $10k with Primerica, you should of made over $100k with HBW. What you did not like the products? American General, ING, Banner life, OM, A. Amicable and the other companies products are not good enough? When it comes to this business it is you that your clients buy.

Then you go chicken scratch and break down the commissions of how much a person loses because he doesn’t have the highest contracts available that you can go get somewhere else. How many times have the CEO of the company have told you that if you want the highest contracts and would better off the go get them? There are many agents that have produced like have the numbers you have posted and have gotten promoted before it was time, what happened to you? We highly doubt that you were doing those numbers, that why you focused on the commission and not your vision. I find agents doing those numbers. Let me help you with your vision. Just one or two producing agents like that makes up for the lost commissions that you blame for you failures.

Agency ownership, I own the book of business right? But you claim that I don’t own the agency. So what. Build your agency somewhere else, but what happens when the agent up under you produces more than you and wants your contract? Ownership is not all that you make it out to be. Clarify it for us what you mean by agency ownership. I have found a product or two outside of HBW that have been beneficial to “my agents” and their clients, why. Agency ownership. If I wanted to sell them toasters at a discount I could because they are my agents. Are you telling me that you are building an agency and you own your agent’s clients? Yeah that sounds like agency ownership to me.

Let me know what IMO I should join that has 30 something carriers, offering highest contracts. They are all fighting for the same pool of agents. They ones that are making money are not searching for highest contracts. They are searching for more clients or agents and looking for ways to make them better. I could go on and on but you are a waste of time.

Anybody that is following this call the company up. They will gladly try to answer all your concerns no hoopla. Google some of the HBW agents or any other independent agent out there and get your questions answered so you can make an informed decision.

And I wish you, “Good Luck” it is about you and you most likely be successful anywhere.

Excuse the typos, not going to proofread the most important part is the message.

Representingtheclient, I’m glad to see your back with the same spins as the prior guy.

There you go again calling individuals failures, because they don’t agree with your system. Let me guess, every other agent that is not part of HBW is a complete moron, greedy, corrupt,
and uneducated? Or maybe it is just me. Since you like to get personal.

What I mentioned before still stands. I proved to you that HBW is not for the self- producer by the numbers. Yet you answer by writing a spin that has nothing to do with my topic. I forgot, I’m a failure because I don’t drink the Kool-aid as you do. That’s a good one!!!

What happened to me at HBW? you asked!!! I realized it is not for the self-producer, so I left.

I said HBW is 10x better than PFS, but no where there, did I say an individual would make 10x more income than PFS. Again, there you go spinning things around. I was referring to products. NOT INCOME.

If a hierchy is what a person desires, then opening an agency, becoming a GA would be better for them, since they will own the business. You talk about owning the book of business, true you do own that, but nothig else!!!

Since when is using math examples that are acurate and true become a chicken scratch? What vison are you referring to exactly? Building an agency with hierchy? Save the speech, their are only a few reasons an individual would stay in HBW.
1. The agent truely believes in that they would own an agency and envisions themselves building one. The problem with that, is that the whole idea is flawed. The one that owns the agency is the CEO of HBW not the individual, but I’m not going to spend more time discussing this with you. If by now you don’t get it, then you deserve to be there.
2. The agent has become so accustomed to making their income by tapping into the warm market of the recruit, that without that system in place they would simply not know how to make any income.

Let me quote you there…”Agency ownership, I own the book of business right? But you claim that I don’t own the agency. So what. Build your agency somewhere else, but what happens when the agent up under you produces more than you and wants your contract? Ownership is not all that you make it out to be”
Really!!! are you serious? Why don’t you ask that to the owner (CEO) of HBW? Why do you think he left his prior MLM and opened HBW. Oh, wait!!! He did that to help people like you build a business. Or could it be that he realized he owned nothing and decided to open his own business and now sell you the Kool-aid.

You say that IMO are fighting for the agents out. I say MLMs are all fighting for the Gulible people out there, that believe in faery tales.

Listen, my point was proven and you have not provided an example of where I am incorrect.

Good Luck to you.

To all those reading this posts, please remember that all these MLM agents in their minds are Progressives and Totalitarians like in their thinking. Anyone that has a different opinion is just plainly a moron, they know better, and their road is the one with the least resistance.

by: Answer This | January 19th, 2010 (1:33 pm)

Rep.. The reason I didn’t respond to “truth’s” comments is because anyone can go to the HBW site and see the agent contract, carriers, products, and commission schedule (Which is going to be enhanced in the near future). People can do the research on their own..

As Barney says people need to do what they feel is in their best interest. They can leave HBW but if they wish to come back they will be accepted with open arms..


One day, when you become highly succesful and would like to own your own business, you will understand what some of us talk about.

Most of us that own our businesses are not willing to settle for the scraps that HBW or any other MLM give.We instead want the food that’s on the table.

by: representingtheclient | January 19th, 2010 (10:41 pm)

You have not proven anything. Everyone can see that you are disgruntled. Sorry not drinking anyone’s Kool-aid. It’s failures like the “the truth” that have the same excuses. Truth is that you are about to be 4x’s loser.

What? I proved to you or anyone that HBW is not for the self-producer. You just chose to ignore the facts, and comeback with demeaning comments. But that was expected.

I have yet to see anyone of you in those MLM systems compele a strong arguement. When pushed back to the wall, they either insult or ignore the statements.

I will not stood down to your level of ignorance and argue. I am to old for that. Let the reader determine their own opinion.

mispelled, compile.

Let me give some background history of my prior experiences from the 3 MLMs I was part of years ago. So the reader would understand that I am not disgruntled by any means.

Before I joined PFS I was already self employeed in the sales business, “diferrent products”. I was approached by an PFS agent and liked the concept of the recruiting business and building an “agnecy”, but I would not permitted to continue working on my current business. So I turned it down, way to captive for me.

Few months later, I was approached with the HBW opportunity and liked it enough to join them for a few years. By my own pen I became an AVP, at the same time I built a hierchy in another non-related MLM in a differet Industry. Everything was good.

The other MLM I was in, went belly-up and in a blink of an eye I lost the entire hierchy, not by my doing. It was caused by the management (CEO) of the company and the company dissolved. Only God knows what truly happened there.

When that happened, I was awaken to the true facts that it could happened to any MLM and how quickly it could evaporate. All the hard work gone.

Yet I did not quit HBW and remained for another year or so. The Company runs smoothly and the back office is helpful. Nice environment.

As I became more suscessfull and my income went back to where it was before the other MLM wiped, I sat back and evaluated my current position, visions and goals for where I wanted my business to go.

I realized, I could afford to open my own agency and would be able to make more income from the same things and products I was already offering.

Then I thought, I could remain here or move on. Afterall ownership is what we all seek, wether it is a book of business or a hierchy. I realized I didn’t own anything in HBW or any other MLM aside from my book of business. The Hierchy did not belong to me. There are to many “ifs” that could happen.

Furthermore, I did not have any control where the Company would go, commisions I would make, products I would offer. Nothing was up to me. That is why I say you own nothing there or anywhere else. Should the owner die, sell it, commit fraud, tax evation, etc. the business could be wiped. Again in a blink of an eye. One reality in life is that anything could happen to anyone at anytime.

It is not wise to build your agency on a sand foundation, way too many variables out of your control.

At this point, I own my Company. The Article of Incorporation says so. I determine where it goes and what it provides. I determine the commisions my agnets would make. I only hire licensed agents and give them the highest street level commisons available to them. If they becoma sucessful and would liek to mirror my comapny and do it for themselves God Bless them and good luck to them. The reality is that most individuals don’t do so and remain hapy with high commisons.
Why? who knows evryone is different.

Only a few of us really understand the meaning of business and see the potential of really owning something. But I will criticize anyone that does otherwise, it is their choice. What would I hope is for readers to open their minds to the idea of bilding their own business themselves.

Lets be perfectly honest here and agree that all MLMs are owned by a particular Individual that decided he would build his business in that model, offering overrides to those that wish to recruit.

Now to those that recruit, don’t be naive and ever think the agency is yours at all. It belongs to the MLM and you have decided to participate in a franchise scenario.

I like to prove my points with facts and numbers. Math tends to be the best way to do so. Sinc it very hard to twists the numbers in anyone’s favor. So when I argue an idea, product or system, I expect the individual that is entering the discussion to answer with facts and not ideas.

If you have the determination and intellect to be a business owner, then MLM are not for you. IF owning a franchise and recruitng individuals into a system, then MLMs are for you. But be vary of the consequences that could arise from those decisions. A good example of a franchise going belly-up (Not related to Financial Srvcs.) would be GM. The owners of those Dealers decided to open a business solely dependent of the manufacturer, we all know what happened to most of them, when the Company struggled. Thousands were forced to close their doors, but the owner of a used cardealership didn’t have the same fate. Just an example of how anything could end in a blink of an eye.

Lastly, I entered this post, because I was seeking feed backs on MLMs for an individual that asked me about them, and I wanted him to see what other people are saying.

Take this as you would, but remember that your foundation sits on sand.

Good Luck to all!!!!

I apologize for the typos, it is way to late for me and it has been a long day.

I meant to say in a section there, that I will NOT CRITICIZE!!!

by: Answer this | January 20th, 2010 (3:53 am)

Truth I see where your coming from, but by you hiring other agents arn’t they in somewhat the same situation you left behind? Me myself I like the MLM compensation structure at HBW. You don’t like it I can respect that. As for your statement of anything can happen that’s why I also build with a service/product outside of HBW that doesn’t require licensing but pay good commissions and renewals.

I firmly believe not all things are for all people. I just think people should know as much facts as possible and make a decision that is within their best interest.

Let me ask you this. When you left HBW were there any restrictions on you in regards to you offering your people the chance to go with you if they so chose to leave?

Answer this, To answer your question; I did not encounter any problems from the back office when I left HBW. I was not a big recruiter. My main concern was to take my Book of Business, which I did right away.

There is nothing in the Terms and Conditions that would limit you from taking anyone with you. BUT I will tell you this, I know of a couple of cases were things did not turn out so well.

I know of an indidvidual that was forced to sell (NOT Willingly) his hierchy. Another individual was not allow to sell it to whom he wanted and the back office directed the sale to whom they pleased. The worst one I know of, was another person that had to agree to certain conditions (behind closed doors) to sign a non-compete with the Company. He could not go after his hierchy at all, if he would the Company would have the right to sue.

Now, not all stories have bad endings. some have moved on without any problems at all. But you will never know where you would be, until you get to that point. (It is an uncertainty) Like I siad before, building a business on sand.

It would be wise for you to always remember that the hierchy does not belong to you, rather it is owned by the Company. You just have overriding privileges over it, as long as you remain part of it. Ultimately the selling conditions of your so called hierchy are determined and most be approved by the CEO.

Now for your first question regarding situation left behind. What do you mean, not sure I understand the question fully. please refrase it.

by: Answer This | January 20th, 2010 (7:48 pm)

After rereading your post I got my answer.

“I only hire licensed agents and give them the highest street level commissions available to them. If they become a successful and would like to mirror my company and do it for themselves God Bless them and good luck to them. The reality is that most individuals don’t do so and remain happy with high commissions.
Why? who knows everyone is different.”

I wish you the best…

Someone approached me that they could secure a loan of $150,000 for me for investment in their mutual funds; such that the loan will not appear against my credit report, plus I only need to service the interest What’s this? a scam? Any help or advice will help.


M. Tina,

It may or may not be a scam, more details would be needed to arrive to a conclusion. One thing I could tell you, is that it is out of compliance, unethical, and prohibited to use a clients funds that come from a loan and invest those funds in the market.

The important thing here to remember is, would it be a good financial decision to do so?

1. You would be borrowing money with interest to invest in a mutual fund that could not guarantee a return.

2. As mentioned above, the rate (Interest) been paid on the Loan could be much higher than the yield (Return) of the Investment. What would happen to you if the investment goes down to $40K and you are paying on $150K? You still have to pay for the $150K.

Not a good idea, stay away from the individual that mentioned such a thing.

Good luck!

by: A second hand victim | February 1st, 2010 (2:08 pm)

I’ve been looking at many comments and websites regarding ” Primerica”.
The problem is…My G/friend ( 50 y/o) has been with this company as a “recruter” ( for 7 years) with the hopes and dreams of becoming just like those 500k a year earners they see at the $25 “invite only ” 6 times a year Raa-Raa meetings.
She works hard …meets and promotes …has endless ” financial planning meetings” …
She goes to all the offered class’s , teachings and weekly recrutment introductory meetings put on by the local and very excited ” Team Leader”.
She buys her licences and tickets required by national and regional law.

The money she has earned in all these years….wouldn’t buy gas for a year in her car. !!

She’s hooked.
Is it the promise of welth beond your dreams ?
Is it the thought of actually “helping” the low and middle class ??
Is it the team spirit and sence of belonging ??
CUZ it shure isn’t the actual income. !!!

Great business…wish i thought of it. !
Single financially secure gentelman …seeks older independant
woman …for old age planning.

by: Where's My Money | February 3rd, 2010 (6:41 pm)

Hey Richard,
How can I fire my RVP? I have hired a few people and have been promoted. Now my RVP has taken it upon herself to call my new recruits and take them out into thier warm markets without calling me. I have a problem with that. Am I in the wrong? I mean, when I was going threw the process, I was always told, “you’re getting points and referrals, while we’re getting paid”. You will be the one training YOUR people and you’ll be getting paid while they are getting points and referrals. This is, what one may say is the last straw. My RVP is the abosulte worste. She didn’t even make it to leedership school last weekend. Love the industry, have working with my upline. You got any suggestion for the RIGHT NOW?

“I have hired a few people and have been promoted.”

Great! But it’s recruited not hired. There’s a fine line that the lawyers love to bite on.

“Now my RVP has taken it upon herself to call my new recruits and take them out into thier warm markets without calling me. I have a problem with that. Am I in the wrong?”

Depends on the situation. Your RVPs responsibility is to build AND train your team while you are learning. It’s in her best interest to get them going as fast as possible as well as yours. Remember, they are just as much apart of her team as they are yours. When you go RVP, it will be your responsibility to do the same.

That being said, it would be unethical for her to take them out from under you while you are still active in the system (unless they requested it). Going out and training them is not the same, just make sure you stay above them in level.

If they are not licensed, you are, and she is signing instead of holding them for you to sign, that would be a problem.

Ultimately, take it up with her upline RVP/OSJ. If it doesn’t get resolved, request a transfer (not a network) to a new RVP. And take your team with you. But make sure you tell your team what you are doing and they agree with it.

The RVPs that screw over recruits/clients don’t make it long in Primerica. They either change companies or quit the industry.

Doesn’t depend on any situation. You recruit people in what is supposed to be your business and your RV calls warm leads? Nothing to do with being at a higher level. It’s unethical

Thats RVP.

Actually Peter, it does. Although he is building a business for him, it does not mean he is building it by himself.

If Primerica ran like you suggest where once trained you are left alone to recruit and train your people without outside help, Primerica would not have survived, if it had, it would be no better than any other traditional company.

The fact that his RVP is taking his people out to train them, benefits him. It frees him up to do his own appointments or train others. Now, if she is trying to steal them away, that is wrong. But if all she is doing is helping him build a bigger/better business, what’s the problem? How is that unethical is she is merely HELPING him?

I beg to differ. The RVP was taking them out without calling the Agent. That’s not help, that’s control. In training if you work together with your Agent, meaning informing them, keeping them up with the case and suggesting that they go on appts from the leads they created that’s a different story. That’s doesn’t seem to be the case here. When an RVP has doubts that an Agent will survive they begin to take control for selfish motives. There is no excuse for this whatsoever. Nobody is suggesting that they should be left alone. That’s not the issue here.


There is not enough information to decide if the RVP was taking over his team or merely training them.

Should the RVP have informed him, probably. Because she didn’t does NOT mean she is taking the team over. It just means she didn’t call.

At the very least, his TEAM should be calling him (and visa versa) for updates AS WELL AS the RVP.

by: Answer This | February 4th, 2010 (5:04 pm)

Don’t forget commissions. Now if she has not informed him of what she is doing there’s a reason for that. She isn’t new, she’s an RVP.. Something like that needs to be addressed upfront.

by: Where's My Money | February 22nd, 2010 (10:15 am)

To Richard.
I would love to talk with you and explain the issue. In the meetings its 1 thing, in my RVP’s voice.. “WE” go out together with your recruit, and as “WE” write business, they get points, “WE” get paid. Now in that sentence I used the word WE 3 times. Can anyone explain to me WHY I misunderstood how “WE” really means the RVP, alone? That was her arguement, I misunderstood. Please some of you “seasoned” Primericans contact me.
Thanks for all the comments.

by: Where's My Money | February 22nd, 2010 (10:28 am)

and Richard,
Its not merely training, she is attemting to write business. I am a SR, and 1 of my “peeps” is looking to be promoted very soon, days maybe. She does not have a license, but does have qulified places to go. My RVP tells me I have to do $2500 in order to get promoted, which has to come fromMY market, as SHE takes and trains my recruit in her warm market without me… but, I still have $2500 to do, or my recruit levels me. So much more to say. Tired of typing now. Good idea about the transfer thou. Do I have to go threw OSJ or can I just request a transfer?

I obviously did not read everything on this post as it would have taken hours. I just wanted to chime in on a few things I read. Dr. Francis John Maguire, Ph.D., having a fancy degree is great. My father in law has a Ph.D. in Mathematics and I respect him a lot. But for you, flaunting your degree like it makes you better than everyone else, is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody cares that you can sign your name with that degree. Get over it.

This post from the financial blogger is so ridiculously off base. For example:

“According to their sales pitch, they do. If I sit down and I listen blindly to what they have to tell me, they will explain that they are not there for the money (but will later brag that they are making 6 figures by working minimal hours a week) since they really care about people.”

Who are YOU to judge why the Primerica agent is there? I know for a fact all of my clients I sit down with I am truly trying to put in a better financial position. Same goes for everyone in my office. There are bad agents out there just like any other financial services institution, but to make a generalized statement such as that shows your lack of knowledge.

“The truth is that if you sit down with an advisor from another company, they will more likely tell you that they place the client in the center of their business. Their goal is to meet their client’s needs.”

Again, how do you know this? Have you sat down with every individual involved in the financial services industry? Another generalized statement that is not well thought out. Go read all of the negative commentary on Edward Jones, Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, etc. Does it make them bad companies? No. Does it mean they might have some bad agents? Yes. Same goes for Primerica.

“Primerica says they are there to help, some proclaim that they are providing clients with professional help; others will explain that their goal is to keep their clients as happy as a pig in s?!^.”

This is the funniest one yet. Even if it did happen once with an agent in any company, it does not reflect the company as a whole. It reflects the agent didn’t last long because he was unprofessional. The true successful people in Primerica are there to help, and that is what has created their success. Every meeting we announce that if you do not have a desire to truly help others, we do not want to meet with you.

Do some more research. After all, you ARE just a blogger full of opinions.

If i had a degree, I would make everyone aware of it, why? because it takes hard work and dedication. So keep it up Francis and dont let individuals put meaningless meanings to something that is your not his. It always amazes me how people put a personal meaning to somehing that is so meaningless to them…why even bother!!
Us profesional designated fiancial advisors (CFP), are also astounded at how just because you pass a few simple exams, think you have the capability of recommending how an individual should position monies, assets, and risk on businesses, families and individuals. I must say though, it really is meaningless to even tell you what I think, because in reality its my meaning not yours.


Whatever problem you have with my title, ot your father in law, get over it.

But your post mixes that with a bunch of statements referenced after it that gives the impression that these were my posts.

I do not them attributed to me.

by: Answer This | March 11th, 2010 (5:58 pm)

Ryan you say “I know for a fact all of my clients I sit down with I am truly trying to put in a better financial position. ”

I can accept that statement. Case closed. The problem comes when agents try to say they are the only organization which is out to help the consumer. If PFS agents would keep the basing down and say what you say, No problem..

by: Ramesh Chandra | March 11th, 2010 (10:09 pm)

I am a successful IT project manager, Real Estate Agent before I considered Primerica. I just reached District Manager promotion within 6 weeks of joining.
I left IT a while ago when I changed my career to real estate. I donot plan to drop Real estate.
What attracted me to Primerica is it business model.
I did not take my Real Estate broker license , because none of the RE broker models are attractive for me.
I am looking at Primerica model as a business owner with the ability to provide necessary services to the client. It gives me decent products to help a person or family to do better. I enjoy co-recruiting and co-training with the help of my other trained people in my team including my upline.
This is a least cost way to buy myself a franchise with very little cash investment.
I am learning a lot from my team , even though I am a veteran in business.
I am seeing in my front leaders develop fast.
The networking is not a scam of selling to your freinds and family.
It is no different than the most successful networking tool used in RE, “By Referal Only” concept.
I happened to join a good team. We are not allowed here to make any pitch , until we are fully trined. I get all the opportunity to have my upline and my trainers do the presentations while get it almost by memory.
I am a big believer in Chunking down things to get them done. At least my team has done that for me. This helps many a novice to come up to speed.
We compare our model to “mcDonald”. There is a lot of community which needs guidance. They are not getting it and will not get it with the “Capital Grills”.
If we give this help in an efficient way, provide employment to the youth who will learn from us fast, I am sold.
There are many good financial professional, who do good for a lot of people. But none in the scale a “Primerica model” can provide.
I can take issue with any of you who stash assets in the lottery or Los Vegas called stock market. I personally help many customers in developing Real Estate portfolios returning much better returns and with full control.
So stop bashing Primerica.
You certainly should do your better job for the few people who can afford you.
Point out the pitfalls in “Primerica model”(because, if you can’t understand where it is good , you will make a mistake).
But donot makie blanket statements like “Pyramid Scheme”,”MLM”, “Don’t touch it”, “not good for you”, if you don’t have the time or understanding of the model’s viability.
It is the model, not necessarly the specific product, stupid(addressing one statement negative commentators).
I certainly welcome your direct comments to my contribution. I will answer them.

I just signed up with Primerica. I had no intention of doing the business at first. I met a friend of my neighbor who was a rep for the company. At that particular time I had a Universal Life Policy with Union Centra Life that was about to implopde on us. We purchased this policy 20 years ago from an agent that could not even explain to us what is was (I know this now). After 20 years it had a cash value of $25K. Not much after 20 years. We borrowed our own cash value to purchase a house. I had to pay it back at 6%. I could not even write off the interest. Needless to say, between paying it back and the premium, it cost me over $300 per month. I had another whole life policy that my husband got from the PD and it was worth only $12.5K after 40 years. That cost me $43 per month. My Primerica Agent saved me from bankrupcy because I had just lost my job and had got myself into a mess. The agent had me surrender the policies and pay off debt of over $14K. He saved me almost $1000 per month in bills. I got a better policy for my husband and I. My husband is a preferred client at age 60. We got a fifteen year policy for the both of us of $400K. We will paying off our house prior to the expiration and will not need it in that amount anymore. I can actually get out of debt now and save. It was a blessing for us. I am starting my own bokkeeping service and also offering financial advice. Let me tell you that taking the Insurance exam is not easy by any means. I have a BS and an MPA so I am no dummy. My feeling is the thing that deters people from starting with Primerica is that you have to prospect like you do with any business. They are fearful. If you are truthful to people that you speak to, you should not have a problem. I have found that there are so many people out there that have no clue about insurance or saving for their future. If you want a future, you had better get on the stick and educate yourself or speak to an agent. Now is the time believe it or not. I speak from experience. I learned a powerful lesson. Start when you are young and you will reap the rewards of your efforts later. Do it for your kids. They are going to need your help. Stop throwing stones and distributing negative comments. LEARN NOW.

Joe A.

My designation is not to impress anyone,.
I am a former college professor with a PhD in finance who just happens to be in the trust planning field.

If that is disturbing to someone, I can’t control their emontions.

And best of success at all you do, as well as anyone in their chosen field.

by: Answer This | March 12th, 2010 (11:24 pm)

Ellyn did you also consider an LTC policy or do some Estate Planning?
You can be debt free but God forbid a health issue crop up and that nest egg can go quick. Then medicaid qualification and asset recovery can be a concern..

There is this thing called health insurance. I am fortunate enough to have it. I am not old enough for medicare. If a person does not have any health insurance then they have a problem that no one can help them with. Primerica offers health insurance programs if you can pay for them. I would not recommend anything to a client until I know all the facts. I am not advoacating quick and easy fixes. Most middle class families are very uninformed. I want to inform them. Instead of using abbreviations for policy names, why not spell it out so everyone can learn something from you. Debt freedom is a key element to a happy and healthy retirement.

by: Peter Cramer | March 14th, 2010 (11:08 am)

Love listening to the RVP’s and above talk about their fancy homes, cars, lifestyle etc. They claim they are not bragging but built their dream. If you want to build your dream try doing it in an ethical environment. A lot of people get wealthy in this world while taking advantage of others. Primerica is a scam and does not look to the best interests of their clients. Overpriced and plain poor advice for 95%. Really listen to what they are saying about this recruiting model and selling your warm market. They do this without education. The meetings are 100% recruiting and telling you how people are taken advantage of with permanent coverage

by: Ramesh Chandra | March 14th, 2010 (4:05 pm)

Let us look at ur points u pointed here , whether ur claim for scam holds.
1. Love listening to RVPs: I guess u should. No scam here.
2. They do say all the time that they build their dream life. That is because they did build it. Nothing wrong in bragging either. There is no scam here.
3. One should build their dream in an ethical manner. They do. There is no scam here.
4. A lot people get wealthy taking advantage of others. These people do it while helping others. There is no scam here.
5. Overpriced: State actual examples. U did not show any scam in pricing.
5. ?95%.
6.Plain poor advice: The advice is plain and easy to understand. Poor-give us true examples. There is no scam here.
7. They do this without education: Primerica spends a lot of time in educating and training their people. Show another company which educates them more. No scam here.
8. Meetings are both training meetings and opportunity meetings. ur 100% is wrong. Primerica openly talks about and proud of recruiting directly and aggressively without pressure. No scam here.
8. Telling people that they r taken advantage of permanent(whole life) insurance. Which is truth. No scam here.
After examining carefully , it is hard not to come to the conclusion that u r spamming here.
If tjhis blog owner really like this blog clean, comments like this should be deleted and u should be marked as spammer.
Please do come back with the story of ur actual experience with Primerica and then we can talk..
First did u join Primerica.
If so what exactly happened(no generalities, get specific).
If u r competition, state it.
If u really have complaints complain to insurance bureau or BBB.

by: Answer This | March 14th, 2010 (7:14 pm)

Ellyn if you don’t know LTC is Long Term Care.. You may want to do some research.

Sorry for you Ramesh cause you seem like you mean well. I’ve been on both sides. Major AAA Rated Carrier for a number of years. Decided to work on a project for a few yrs. Came back and tried Primerica and then returned successfully to the business I started.

Start with your own research first cause I don’t have time to do it for you. Call any reputable brokerage Agency and get quotes for your clients. 90% of companies are much less expensive and offer Standard Tables where Primerica rates clients. Guaranteed Standard with some pre existing condition cuts costs dramatically. Not all cases but most. Do some real homework

Will see if you love listening to RVP’s moving forward – They say the same thing – Might as well listen to the same recording

If you think there is one way to build a portfolio whether you have significant assets or no you are sadly mistaken. If you like Term Insurance you can do better as I said. Some families and business use permanent coverage and do it successfully. I didn’t meet one Primerica rep including RVP’s who were able to explain how permanent coverage works. It’s all the same “you don’t get the cash value and the Death Benefit”. One of purposes for permanent coverage is if you want to leverage existing dollars to build an estate for your beneficiaries with tax advantages. May like it may not but it’s not a scam like Primerica says. They never understood it in the first place and bought it or was sold for the wrong reasons. That’s why they feel it’s a scam.

What happened to being humble in this world. If you are truly successful and happy you don’t need to dance around telling everyone what you have built and showing pics of your cars, houses and trips.

Your FNA is a static document not a working document. I’ve never charged for a plan and Primerica says that everyone else charges. My clients consistently update at least semi annually and review their investments. Primerica has probably the worst training on equities I’ve ever seen.

I attend classes at my office and through teleconference multiple times a week. You go through recruiting speeches and ra ra stuff and then maybe in an educational class or 2.

so I suppose the Whole world is being taken advantage of with permanent coverage.? All the yrs that it’s being sold some very sophisticated people and middle income families have used it successfully. There are some pretty smart people in this world and although not for everyone it stands the test of time. Primericas ignorant crusade

Take a real training class and compare.

I am not spamming here. Just trying to help those out who don’t know anything about the insurance market and are only exposed to one line of thinking. I don’t have the time to fully convince you but I can bet that you haven’t researched many other opportunities

Sorry for you Ramesh cause you seem like you mean well. I’ve been on both sides. Major AAA Rated Carrier for a number of years. Decided to work on a project for a few yrs. Came back and tried Primerica and then returned successfully to the business I started.

Start with your own research first cause I don’t have time to do it for you. Call any reputable brokerage Agency and get quotes for your clients. 90% of companies are much less expensive and offer Standard Tables where Primerica rates clients. Guaranteed Standard with some pre existing condition cuts costs dramatically. Not all cases but most. Do some real homework

Will see if you love listening to RVP’s moving forward – They say the same thing – Might as well listen to the same recording

If you think there is one way to build a portfolio whether you have significant assets or no you are sadly mistaken. If you like Term Insurance you can do better as I said. Some families and business use permanent coverage and do it successfully. I didn’t meet one Primerica rep including RVP’s who were able to explain how permanent coverage works. It’s all the same “you don’t get the cash value and the Death Benefit”. One of purposes for permanent coverage is if you want to leverage existing dollars to build an estate for your beneficiaries with tax advantages. May like it may not but it’s not a scam like Primerica says. They never understood it in the first place and bought it or was sold for the wrong reasons. That’s why they feel it’s a scam.

What happened to being humble in this world. If you are truly successful and happy you don’t need to dance around telling everyone what you have built and showing pics of your cars, houses and trips.

Your FNA is a static document not a working document. I’ve never charged for a plan and Primerica says that everyone else charges. My clients consistently update at least semi annually and review their investments. Primerica has probably the worst training on equities I’ve ever seen.

I attend classes at my office and through teleconference multiple times a week. You go through recruiting speeches and ra ra stuff and then maybe in an educational class or 2.

so I suppose the Whole world is being taken advantage of with permanent coverage.? All the yrs that it’s being sold some very sophisticated people and middle income families have used it successfully. There are some pretty smart people in this world and although not for everyone it stands the test of time. Primericas ignorant crusade

Take a real training class and compare.

I am not spamming here. Just trying to help those out who don’t know anything about the insurance market and are only exposed to one line of thinking. I don’t have the time to fully convince you but I can bet that you haven’t researched many other opportunities

Sorry for you Ramesh cause you seem like you mean well. I’ve been on both sides. Major AAA Rated Carrier for a number of years. Decided to work on a project for a few yrs. Came back and tried Primerica and then returned successfully to the business I started.

Start with your own research first cause I don’t have time to do it for you. Call any reputable brokerage Agency and get quotes for your clients. 90% of companies are much less expensive and offer Standard Tables where Primerica rates clients. Guaranteed Standard with some pre existing condition cuts costs dramatically. Not all cases but most. Do some real homework

Will see if you love listening to RVP’s moving forward – They say the same thing – Might as well listen to the same recording

If you think there is one way to build a portfolio whether you have significant assets or no you are sadly mistaken. If you like Term Insurance you can do better as I said. Some families and business use permanent coverage and do it successfully. I didn’t meet one Primerica rep including RVP’s who were able to explain how permanent coverage works. It’s all the same “you don’t get the cash value and the Death Benefit”. One of purposes for permanent coverage is if you want to leverage existing dollars to build an estate for your beneficiaries with tax advantages. May like it may not but it’s not a scam like Primerica says. They never understood it in the first place and bought it or was sold for the wrong reasons. That’s why they feel it’s a scam.

What happened to being humble in this world. If you are truly successful and happy you don’t need to dance around telling everyone what you have built and showing pics of your cars, houses and trips.

Your FNA is a static document not a working document. I’ve never charged for a plan and Primerica says that everyone else charges. My clients consistently update at least semi annually and review their investments. Primerica has probably the worst training on equities I’ve ever seen.

I attend classes at my office and through teleconference multiple times a week. You go through recruiting speeches and ra ra stuff and then maybe in an educational class or 2.

so I suppose the Whole world is being taken advantage of with permanent coverage.? All the yrs that it’s being sold some very sophisticated people and middle income families have used it successfully. There are some pretty smart people in this world and although not for everyone it stands the test of time. Primericas ignorant crusade

Take a real training class and compare.

I am not spamming here. Just trying to help those out who don’t know anything about the insurance market and are only exposed to one line of thinking. I don’t have the time to fully convince you but I can bet that you haven’t researched many other opportunities

I was with one of the top 10 hierchy’s in all of Primerica and made Regional Leader in 8 weeks. Gave it all a full chance, overlooked early flaws in the system trying to see the positives. Went to multiple regional meetings and attended all sessions provided from my RVP office for 9 months. Met dozens of RVP’s.

Do the math on the Primerica success stories. Look at the #’s of people the make even 50k or more compared to the #’s that are contracted. That is hardly a success story. Most of the money is still made by the old time RVP’s and their hierchys. There are a few newcomers like the Defeos and fieldstats. Not my style. Don’t fool yourself. Those people are totally controlled by Home Office and are not truly running their own franchise. It’s what they are coached to say not how much free time they have.

Also most of multi level is a flawed model not just Primerica. Products are overstated, misrepresented and overpriced to make sure that the upline is compensated

By the way the home Office follow up, records, billing and underwriting are totally unorganized. When the RVP’s get to know you better they will say yea “it’s a big black hole but keep recruiting and it won’t matter”.

They don’t have the backing of Citi anymore. Primerica spins it to a positive but ratings agencies have lowered their ratings due decreased confidence in their ability to run the company successfully and independent

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (2:53 pm)

Peter I agree with you on most of the points you made, except one. Quote “Also most of multi level is a flawed model not just Primerica. Products are overstated, misrepresented and overpriced to make sure that the upline is compensated”

Not all MLM Companies overprice their products as some of them provide outside Carriers. What they all do is REDUCE the commission the writting agent makes in order to pay everyone above him.

Now don’t be so sold on Permanent Life products, when the numbers are compared it does suffer greatly when matched against the ideology of “Buy Term and Invest the difference”.

On the other hand, it does have its niche. and It should not be completely dismissed.

Lastly, I love all this agents pushing LTC, Disabily insurance
and criticizing those that don’t know what it means. First of all those products are overpriced in their current form and most of the middle class could not afford it. I will go a step further and be willing to bet that 99.99% of agents that sell it don’t even buy it for themselves. Money could be spent on other things, since MOST individuals won’t ever use it at all.

Cramer, most of the individuals replying to this post are narrow minded, blinded, they can’t think for themselves and are easily manipulated. You will find yourself talking to a wall, at least that is what it feels like.

by: Ellyn Camp | March 15th, 2010 (4:13 pm)

I know what Long Term Care is. I don’t have to do my research. That is a poor excuse for insurance. Maybe it is for the wealthy. Most middle class cannot afford that luxury. I am presently studying for the Florida State insurance exam. I have been contacted by numerous insurance companies to sell their insurance. Primerica is giving me the opportunity to get my license for a low fee. I do not think any insurance company is really honest. I will find out if it works for me or not and determine at that time if I will stick with it. I win either way. I will have my license and I can decide about my future them. My background is in accounting and I can always fall back on that.

by: Ellyn Camp | March 15th, 2010 (4:15 pm)

It is not necessary to insult people by calling them narrow minded to make a point. If it is something they believe in so be it.

by: Answer this | March 15th, 2010 (5:02 pm)

Truth when speaking with clients who are in upper ages such as age 60 LTC if suitable is a consideration. As for disability today many people are living check to check and at least a DI amount to cover a mortgage is something to consider. For those who can or are willing to self insure it’s not an issue…

The Truth – I’ll take what you said on MLM’s on the surface however quite frankly there are no MLM’s that I’ve evaluated that have cost effective distribution models. MLM’s will be a thing of the past when people learn how to shop on the internet by quality not price. Retail will have it’s place for convenience. MLM’s and their strategy will become a burden for people who are being oversold and excepting to represent products that are overpriced in most if not all cases.

On your other point – I find it to be a meaningless discussion re: “Term & Invest the difference” cause there are no accurate models to use to calculate. Who do you think will pay for our current budget deficit which is in the trillions? What do you think your tax rate will be at retirement? If someone wants to invest the difference in funds exclusively they can go right ahead. If you want to invest in Real Estate exclusively, go right ahead. Look at all those experts who are upside down now. diversity is the answer.

I plan to leave my heirs a legacy and my strategy guarantees that as well as a hedge against increased future tax rates. Permanent Ins is one piece to the puzzle. 1.5% of all Term policies pay out a benefit so exclusively term throws money in the garbage.

I agree that permanent insurance is not for everyone. Especially those who use it as a forced savings for only the reason that the money isn’t liquid short term in an emergency.

FYI – I’ll tell you what you can do to afford your disability insurance. Shop your Term insurance away from Primerica. Save 20 -30%, add a little and buy what you can. Whether you think it’s cost effective or not if you don’t have group coverage it will save your ass & your family. With a few thousand of coverage a month you can send your spouse to work and supplement the difference.

Truth – you seem more knowledgable – I realize that others believe everything they hear. Primericans are good brainwashers


Long Term Care Insurance is needed for anyone who:

1) Could suffer from a long term qualifying event (anyone age 18+).
2) Have a need to protecting assets from a Medicare spend down.
3) Wants to pay for anything that LCTI would pay for without paying their own cash.

Being wealthy has nothing to do with it.

Genworth is one of the best, if not THE best, provider of LTC insurance in the US. Primerica sells their policies directly.

And just like life insurance, the middle class can not afford NOT to have it. You have a 1 in 2 chance of using it at some point in your life.


If you shop on price alone, you WILL get screwed at some point.

Yes less than 2% of all Term policies pay out. Do you know why?

1) They get replaced. (Policy that didn’t pay out)
2) Coverage Lapses. (Policy that didn’t pay out)
3) Gets exchanged for another term. (Policy that didn’t pay out)
4) Gets converted. (Policy that didn’t pay out)
5) Policy owner drops coverage. (Policy that didn’t pay out)

Same reasons a cash value policy doesn’t pay out (except #3 and #4. #2 can happen by design).

“Primericans are good brainwashers”

What’s that phrase I’m thinking of…oh yea. Tell a lie long enough and it becomes perception. Perception is reality.

I will repost this from 6/2 and 9/2, its funny I did not get 1 reply from any PFS people.

It amazes me after looking at all these posts for the past few months how these new PFS agent get so mentally into ” we are better than you” mantality and think they can give a client a reasonable chance at giving them a financially sound plan, when you need years of experience to even think you are going to make millions in your first month. You start out by writting your close friends and family with small little products, you then grow with your clients, as they grow familes they need more coverage and products, as they get older, there needs change, you will not be rich overnight people, it doesnt happen that way. I have been in this industry for 30+ years, I have worker with New York Life my first 9 years and have been independent since. All products have a purpose, including permanenet, I had a healthy retired 63 year old come to me last month asking for life insurance. All she wanted was a policy she can pay so that if she passes today or in 40 years the policy will be there so that no one else will be burdened with the expense. She has no savings, no family left. Do you honestly think I would sell her term and invest the difference. All products have a purpose and all products lessen the finacial risk for someone else. I can just imagine walking into an auto dealership and the salesman telling me that they have only one car to sell and thats what I need. You cannot tell an individual, a family or a business what they need before you even know them, thats absurd!!! I just cant fathom how this way of doing business is being used these days.

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (6:57 pm)

Peter Cramer, I could name a few MLM Companies that don’t use their own products. HBW, World Financial Group, Capital something (I don’t remember the name now). There you have 3 of them that iI could think of right now. They use outside Carriers and offer the Pipe Dream of owning a business by recruiting and stealing the commission from their recruits. They simply use the commissions that is paid from the Carrier, have the agent signed it over to the MLM and they redestribute it to pay everybody and their mother above them. Simple as that.

Now back to LTC, how many of you that sell it have one? we know what it is good for… but at this point the middle class is so strectched and drenched in debt that it is pointless to offer it to them. Listen we could buy insurance for almost everything, but when the daily needs could hardly be met, it is insane to sell it to someone just incase they get sick enough to need it. Other things are a bigger priority. Ofcourse they are those that could afford it, but again most could not afford it. I will tell you something most of those policies being sold are not to the clients best interest, but rather for the agent to bank a nice commission.

one out two people will need it? really? I have a large book of business from clients over the age of 60-80’s (roughly about 700 or so) I could tell you that only a hand full ever use. Most die in their 70’s or are almost broke and leaving past their means. what do you think happens at that point. they cancel the policy and loose all of those payments made for years.

Richard says “And just like life insurance, the middle class can not afford NOT to have it. You have a 1 in 2 chance of using it at some point in your life.”

Simply not true. We as clients could not afford to be without anything. But is it in the top of the list? not at all… after paying for Mortgage, with the idea to have it paid off before the age of retirement. Saving for retirement, health insurance costs, meds, property taxes and insurance, costs of leaving, savings for emergency and inflation. Where on earth would they come up with the money to pay for LTC and Disability?

Any experienced Financial Advicer would know that most families again are struggling to meet their financial obligations and needs. Last time I checked only about 3% of the US population makes more than $100K annual household income. that alone would probably would not be enough to afford it, if you have kids, etc.
So please lay off that sales pitch and go recruit some sucker out there. Or in your simple mentality… puff puff pass!!!

The same point could be made about permanent life products, way overpriced Life Insurance. Now UL without cash values are a good product that would definetly pay out at some point if premiums are kept current. The ones that carry cash values are questionable at best.

Now to you Joe A. let me quote you here “All she wanted was a policy she can pay so that if she passes today or in 40 years the policy will be there so that no one else will be burdened with the expense” you replied “Do you honestly think I would sell her term and invest the difference”

Now the main problem here is “She has no savings, no family left” stated by you… Why wouldn’t you have her buy a burial policy that would be paid off in a few years and no more premiums. But no, you sell her a permanent product when SHE HAS NO SAVINGS and has NO FAMILY!!! That is priceless. That my friend is one of the reasons why Primerica still exists, because some people out there (you) do questionable and unethical transactions.

She should have been place in a plan to inmediately stablish an emergency fund, secondly cover some sort of retirement (because if she does not pass away young she will sorely need this) and lastly worry about life isurance since there is no Family present.
Beatifully done sir!!!

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (7:08 pm)

mispelled beautifull…

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (7:09 pm)

there you go, did it agin, beautiful.

It again amazes me how one track minded you PFS people are…After a couple of inteviews and helping her research any monies or what she might have, we found that she had an annuity with a school disrict she worked in the 80’s and 90’s. She has a fixed annuity that today is valued at around 16k. She also had a profit sharing IRA valued at around 5K. Do you think I sold her insurance, NO, did I sell her anything NO, why? because I took the time to know her, to get her trust, to make suren her requests are now fullfiled. That is what is important not commissions. The beneficiaries are a couple of charities!!! I can just imagine what a PFS agent would of probably done to this friend of mine!!! Glad she came across me and not a shark!

Peter Cramer wrote: there are no MLM’s that I’ve evaluated that have cost effective distribution models
Peter Craner:

MLM’s actaully have a cost beneficial model insofar as a delivery system; howver, they do not have a cost beneficial consumer component.

The compensation structure clearly disallows for any consumer bargains.

I have stood by the terse, epigramic definition I applied to MLM’s, over 20 years ago, when queried by a grad student as to a simple explanation of milti-level marketing.

It is: Selling an overpriced product or service, of dubious value, to a family member or friend, so that you can male a commission.

Selling someone insurance to for $600 that they could have gotten, for $400 , on their own is not helping anyone a bit.

In fact, it is taking advvantage of people with lesser information and/or exploiting a freindship or familial relationship.

typos however and make

eliminate to before the word for

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (9:26 pm)

Jose A, where did you get the idea that I work for PFS? My comments to you came from your statements. It could have been easily perceived that an Insurance was sold. Which none of them would have been adequate for such an individual.

Now your comments have changed from “She has no savings, no family left” to now she has $21K in savings. When confronted with a strong arguement… your statement changed.
in the same day mind you. Please don’t come here saying you are amazed about this or that, when your actions are questionable just the same. Let me guess… after further fact gadering now she has an inheritance of $300K that she failed to disclose.

Dr. Francis… all common sense would let a person know all MLMs are garbage. Most of their agents are not too bright and those that are, run the Company.

This is an insanely long post detailing the same arguments for the past 2+ years, and yet I see the same things being discussed all over again.

Lets summarize it again for those that have short memory.

1. PFS is a captive Company that all it teaches is recruiting and pretty much nothing else, it is very restrictive, way overpriced, non beneficial to any clients at all.

2. All other non captive MLMs are for recruiters only (never for a self producer at all.. EVER!!!) They lower street commissions to pay the hierchy. The agent maybe a little better trained than PFS.

3. The problem I see with most of this agents is that they don’t know how to survive/ be productive in business if their recruiting aspect of the sale is taken away from them.
all they do for the most part is tap on the warm markets of their recruits in order to make a sale, with the excuse that it is been done for trainning purposes. I guess “Parasites” would be a good explanation of what they are. No benefit to the host at all.

Long Term Care is meant for those who have sufficient Assets to protect otherwise the product is not for them. Basic disability is for everyone even if it’s a small policy or even a group policy. Do whatever you can is the best advice

It is true that MLM’s have a cost effective distribution model but hurts the consumer. Hence MLM’s will never last long term. I was referring to the client. Thanks for the clarification

The Truth – When discussing Long Term Care you also need to consider that many are living longer due to advanced medicine. People will continue to stay alive for longer period. Hence long term care (only if you are not compromising lifestyle & using to protect assets). Those who have assets to protect would be best served by leveraging and protecting using Long Term Care. Don’t know about your client base but many clients of mine need it. In addition, If you were a child looking to have your parents cared for, not have them come back to live with you and preserve an asset that you may inherit you may even consider paying on behalf of your parents. I have many clients that currently fund their parents policy.

Finally – PFS is a fraud model for Agents and consumers. PFS agents don’t talk about disability or long term care (even though they represent Genworth at a ridiculously low compensation). So very few sell it. It’s not their target client anyway. There target is low income families. That does make up many families unfortunately however those families can buy lower cost Term in almost all cases. PFS Agents convince themselves that they are doing the right thing but are ignorant to the rest of the market. Primerica does a good job of keeping them ignorant with their brainwashing tactics. Sorry but ignorant is the most appropriate word that I can use.

Long Term Care is meant for those who have sufficient Assets to protect otherwise the product is not for them. Basic disability is for everyone even if it’s a small policy or even a group policy. Do whatever you can is the best advice

It is true that MLM’s have a cost effective distribution model but hurts the consumer. Hence MLM’s will never last long term. I was referring to the client. Thanks for the clarification

The Truth – When discussing Long Term Care you also need to consider that many are living longer due to advanced medicine. People will continue to stay alive for longer period. Hence long term care (only if you are not compromising lifestyle & using to protect assets). Those who have assets to protect would be best served by leveraging and protecting using Long Term Care. Don’t know about your client base but many clients of mine need it. In addition, If you were a child looking to have your parents cared for, not have them come back to live with you and preserve an asset that you may inherit you may even consider paying on behalf of your parents. I have many clients that currently fund their parents policy.

Finally – PFS agents don’t talk about disability or long term care (even though they represent Genworth at a ridiculously low compensation). So very few sell it. It’s not their target client anyway. There target is low income families. That does make up many families unfortunately however those families can buy lower cost Term in almost all cases. PFS Agents convince themselves that they are doing the right thing but are ignorant to the rest of the market. Primerica does a good job of keeping them ignorant with their brainwashing tactics. Sorry but ignorant is the most appropriate word that I can use.

The Truth wrote: PFS is a captive Company

This is what I find as the most farcical of all.

The PFS contract clearly states that you are an independent contractor (that stems from a court decision of 15 years ago because if it is an employer/employee relationship, it portends a myriad of problems in relation the the Primerica model).

Yet, they want to tell agents that they can only work for Primerica.

I have found this difficult to believe that anyone actually pays attention to that clause.

What can they do to you? Termnate you from a businesss where you are not making any money?

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (10:36 pm)

Francis… FYI an Independent Contractor has nothing to do with been captive or not, it has to do wether you are a W2 or 1099 individual for tax purposes and to keep the Hiring Company from paying employment benefits at all.

So you educate yoursel,f an independent contractor could be captive. Many GAs have their independent agents sign a captive contract, which is perfectly legal.

Primerica is captive, if caught selling anything but their products the individual could get terminated.

Wether you think the individual would be better off or not it is besides the point.

The restriction of allowing the agent to chose other carriers makes the Company captive. If that is farcical to you, maybe you should research the meaning of the word “captive” again.

So you educate yoursel,f an independent contractor could be captive. Many GAs have their independent agents sign a captive contract, which is perfectly legal.

And I will submit to you that NONE of these contracts have ever been upheld ranging from:

Prouze v Delaware

Schoenfield v. Maryland

Respoli v. Massachusetts

They put up wet paint signs for the 98% of all people who will believe and honor that sign. Then there is the 2% of the population who will kick the sign over

Captive language contracts are for those who THINK they are captive.

P.S. Do your homework and get educated, as you say because when Randy Stelk and Amerishares beat Primerica’s brains in in Fkirida Dustrict court, it was precisely on those grounds.

by: The Truth | March 15th, 2010 (11:05 pm)

Well I don’t have any ideas what those cases pertain to or wether irrelevent to this discussion. I will tell you this, the Company and its agents know it is captive. Now if you have the money to prove otherwise in court. That is a different story.

Now you mentioned 3 cases in which the captive exclusion did not adhear for whatever reason. I am sure that they are many that have gone the other way.

If you step back for a moment and get off your high horse and use common sense for a moment. you will come to the conclussion that the typical agent that signs with PFS does not have the capital to argue in court if it is captive or not.

that the typical agent that signs with PFS does not have the capital to argue in court if it is captive or not.

Exactly and that is why PFS will recruit the not too bright..

Additionally, not many agents have the money to contest the contract they signed with a GA..

As to the high horse comment, I will consider the source.

But I can tell you this, in an open forum: On your best day you will not know more about the workings or history of Primerica than i do.

I will take you from the A.L. Willaims days (yes, Art is a personal friend of mine, as was Boe Adams), to when Gerry Tsai came from Associated Madison and American Can to create Primerica, to Art being forced out because of pending RICO charges due to a neeting in Kansas City where he made the mistake of talking openly about ruining Amerishares, to the Joe Ensor days (my childhood friend) and beyond.

by: The Truth | March 16th, 2010 (12:11 am)

Well Francis you are getting off subject… nowhere in my post did I imply I knew anything special about PFS. But lets just leave at that. we both agree in that PFS is pretty useless for both for the agent and the client.

Nothing further to discussed.

by: The Truth | March 16th, 2010 (12:11 am)


But lets just leave at that. we both agree in that PFS is pretty useless for both for the agent and the client

Agreed but is does not have to be that way.

I don’t understand why that organization does not take the time to eduacte the largest financial sales force in the nation.

Instead of some rah rah fast start school every 6 weeks, put them in intensive training for 6 hours a day for two days.

Run 4-5 modules and in 60 days, you have someone who can do the job and know that they now know something.

25 years ago that is the exact model I pointed out to Joe Ensor AND my brother and both of them thought rejected it.

Instead, they followed the company model that resulted in a casualty rate of: 85% of all recruits never celebrated their 2nd anniversary with the company.

They wore themselves out recruiting new agents, instead of retaining them.


by: The Truth | March 16th, 2010 (1:53 am)

well… It is hard to truly know why they do what they do. But it may be a good bet to say that if you train an agent properly in all aspects of the business asides from recruiting, that individual’s mind would open up and come wonder why the company he/she are in is so restrictive in Carriers (or diversity of).

They seems to be content in just recruiting agents that bring on board their warm markets. Regardless if the agent stays or leaves all those sales were completed. Just think of the amount of recruits they get and all those sales their recruits are getting of the new recruits.

We both know that their strong point is recruiting not servicing the client. EVERY product they offer is inferior to others.

I, like yourself have seem many agents make a decent amount of income for a short period of time and just burn out from recruiting.

The bottom line is that the idea of owning a business clouds their reasoning. It is just like you and some other have said in this post, those recruits are simply not too bright. The recruiters will simply recruit anyone… I saw a janitor been recruit once. I could stop and think of alot other bizarre one too.

I will give them something, their brain washing is among the best I have ever seem in my lifetime.

by: The Truth | March 16th, 2010 (1:55 am)

PS. I truly think that if they go ahead with the intensive training idea, the Company would have to change nearly every angle of their business.

by: The Truth | March 16th, 2010 (1:57 am)

recruited once*, ones* too.

The bottom line is that the idea of owning a business clouds their reasoning

Yet, this is the biggest farce, as they own nothing!!!

And this is something I can lend a first hand testimonial to.

My brother was the first person in the history of Primerica to ” sell” the business he owned.

1. He could not sell his book of business in the free market
2. It had to be to someone in Primerica that they approved
3, The person who allegedly ” bought ” it stopped paying him in the 2nd. month and he had to go to court to enforce payment.
4.Primerica stands on the sidelines and tells him that the matter is between him and the buyer.
5. He ends up getting the business back when the fellow stops paying again and had to ” sell ” it all over again.
6. The first three in company buyers were not approved by Primerica to buy it. This went on for 3 years.
7. Finally, they approve a buyer and within two months he stopped paying.
8. Back to court for another year.
9. If they are going to tell you who you can sell, to, the least they could do is take the money the busienss earns and pay the porson who ” sold”: it. Instead, they give the money to the guy who says he bought your business and when he does not pay, they say: ” You guys have to straighten that out on your own. ”

My brother found out after 23 years the only thing he owns is a stack of legal bills.

by: Answer This | March 26th, 2010 (11:01 pm)

Here’s a comparison I ran across while surfing the web.

Hey i’m just sayin..

Hmm…a comparison huh? Lets take a closer look and tell me if this is a TRUE FAIR comparison. If not, then you are a real idiot.

Primerica – Issue Age 27 – Non-Tobacco – $1M Policy. – $118/mo.
Banner – Issue Age 31 – Preferred Plus – $1M Policy – $49/mo

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Especially since Banner is marketing it as a loss leader. 2 different rate classes as well as 2 different ages. But when all you can compete on is price, well, that’s all you get, the cheapest policy out there.

by: The Truth | March 27th, 2010 (12:47 am)

Here you go Richard… apples to apples.

Primerica- 27/F 30yr-$1Mil: $118/M Standard NT

All the following are quoted for a 27/F 30yr-$1Mil. Standard NT

Transamerica: $98/M
Genworth: $98.62
United of Omaha: $99.24
Hartford: $100.80
Banner Life: $102.81
Security Mutual Life: $105.35
Principal Life: $105.44
ING: $105.70

I have another Comapanies beforte I hit the $118/M mark.
By the way these are priced at todays costs, Primerica is much higher than $118/M now.

Let me guess Richard, all those companies are inferior to PFS
and are operating at a loss…

Sir, you are a piece of work…

by: The Truth | March 27th, 2010 (12:49 am)

Corrections: Companies and before.

Not all of them are working at a loss. Those are actually close to what I would expect. Again though, when you compare on price alone, the client loses. Period.

If they were $80 or below, I would expect them to be operating at a loss solely to get clients.

Then again, I’ve also never lost a client on price, even when someone else was cheaper ($50+/mo). It had nothing to do with the policy and everything to do with what they get. Anyone can buy a policy online and find it cheaper. I’ve yet to see an agent from one of those companies actually go to a client’s house and just talk with them though. Never seen one take the time to get to know the client before pushing a sale, educate them on what they are getting and how it all works, etc. To about 95% of the agents I’ve met (online, person, etc), it’s all about the sale. And yes, even several other Primerica agents I know are all about the sale.

But I wouldn’t expect you to truly understand what Primerica really stands for. In the last 33 years, Primerica has actually done MORE good and has caused MASSIVE changes in an industry that has been around for hundreds of years. An industry that has spent those hundreds of years cheating and stealing from people. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

Some of those companies sell at a loss, then within the first few years, start calling the clients telling them they need to convert over to a higher priced policy. Yet Primerica is the bad guy. Most agents just sell a policy instead of offering a full package. Yet Primerica is the bad guy.

Im going to end with this. A very smart man once said, in relation to Primerica’s IPO, “You can join’em, or get ran over by them. Because there will be no stoppin’ ’em once they go independent.”

by: Answer This | March 27th, 2010 (1:46 am)

Richard I don’t know if you noticed but those were issued comparisons.
So it’s a real comparison.

by: The Truth | March 27th, 2010 (1:52 am)

Listen, this country has only been around for just a little over 200 years, so your quote is inaccurate

“Primerica has actually done MORE good and has caused MASSIVE changes in an industry that has been around for hundreds of years”

I have come to the understanding that you just repeat what you hear and don’t know what you are talking about. I feel burdened
for those individuals you massacre while doing your business.

It is better for you to stay in PFS, you will not be able to cut it in the real world of business.

Good Luck Retard, I meant Richard…

by: Answer This | March 27th, 2010 (1:56 am)

Let me correct myself..Banner is issued at a later age and still cheaper..
Let me ask you this. You mention a $50.00 difference. How much in potential face amount was involved. There’s no way you were thinking what’s best for the client. That information if found out at time of claim could be a potential E/O issue…

Next how is something a loss leader when the premiums are guaranteed and there is no requirement to convert? Considering BTID 30 years of coverage is 30 years of coverage. Well except when the guarantee period is on 20 years.

What is a full package? This should be good..

AT, I did notice. It’s still not a real comparison due to age, class, and time at issue differences.

In addition features were never listed. She SOLELY focused on the price difference, nothing more.

The difference in face amount was $0. The difference came in the fact that the other policy was for a higher class (that they didn’t qualify for) as well as 5 years less. No E/O issue. The client made the decision to stay, not me.

You really don’t know what a loss leader is do you? Most companies (insurance included), assuming they have the reserves to back it up, will sell a product at a substantial discount for the sole purpose of getting more clients. It is sold AT A LOSS in hopes they will either drop the policy before a claim or convert it to a “cadillac” product to regain their losses. Don’t know why I have to keep explaining such a basic business principal, but I guess I’m still just talking to salesmen and not business owners.

And do I really need to go over a full package? Geesh,

The Truth, you may want to research your history. The INSURANCE industry has been around since at least the 1700’s. Originally used to insure cargo and lives on ships traveling abroad. Cash value was introduced about 150 years ago as a way to increase profits and reserves. Not as a means of adding value to clients.

” you will not be able to cut it in the real world of business.”

Really? I’ve had 15+ total years of year over year growth in between both of my businesses. Sounds like I cut it pretty damn good.

by: Answer This | March 27th, 2010 (4:35 am)

I heard that loss leader stuff back in the PFS days too. As for the full pkg. yes it would be nice. You don’t have to if you don’t feel like it. I might have missed that one but I will assume it’s a PFS definition..

As for the comparison at that time I think it mattered to the policy owner. The Truth posted rates for comparison but I also assume his quotes were for full guarantee periods..I don’t know if the PFS policies offer a full 30 year guarantee yet. Not to mention they may still use unisex rates.

Richard one day it’s going to click. It may just happen for you after the IPO.. The stockholders won’t want to hear all the hype..It’s the bottom line. It didn’t work with Citi…

I love listening to all the Primerica supporters that truthfully have no idea what they are supporting. For those PFS people who decide to educate themselves I’ll say the following. First. I was working for a top Rated Carrier in a GA for 15 years and ran a successful business. Then I decided after I was vested to go Independent because there was still pressure in some cases to primarily sell our primary carriers product. Wanted to always work to the best interest of my clients by fully understanding the market, Had a new business opportunity (non Insurance) which lasted for a yr unsuccessfully so decided to return. Thought a new twist to the business would be fun in PFS recruiting training & leadership. Term is basic so I figured if a completed a personal planning analysis for my clients and sold Term to the lower & lower middle class market then it would all be okay. I never sold Permanent Insurance to that market cause the product is not liquid enough to suggest for families struggling with paying basic bills. Confidently I’ll tell you I have looked at the clients interest, have been successful in the business and pretty much know what I’m doing. By the way. Became Regional Leader in 2 months and attended probably 50 local meetings & 3 Regional meetings. You PFS supporters should listen
1, Primericas products are overpriced in most cases. (nothing to debate)
2. Primericas Home Office is like a big black hole. The organization is poorly run and even most RVP’s & above laugh at their inefficiency but ignore cause some of them make decent money and know nothing else
3. There is no such thing as training in Primerica. You will only think you are being trained if you have never been anywhere else
3. The Personal Planning Analysis is not a working document and clients rarely follow. It may give them a snapshot where they are currently but has no long term value. PFS Agents barely have a reason to go back. Most aren’t investment licensed anyway and those who are, are so poorly trained it’s pathetic. Maybe you don’t need to know much if your clients have no money. So maybe that’s the defense for being totally ignorant
4. My previous RVP who was one of the more successful for many years laughed that he makes all this money but hasn’t sold a Mutual Fund in 10 years. He started 25 years ago. He goes back to the Home Office regularly to do Investment videos for the company and always says the same thing over & over again. Only buy Mutual Funds, he says.
5. I all the presentations not once was there tax considerations put in the calculation or even mentioned Maybe PFS clients don’t have tax issues cause they have no money? No offense to those families. It’s the fact.
6. There is not one PFS Agent who understands how Permanent Insurance works. True that there aren’t enough other Agents who don’t either however all PFS says is Permanent Insurance is a scam. All they say is “you don’t get the cash value & Death Benefit when you die” There are many very bright people including wealthy upper middle class & middle class who have used this Insurance successfully whether PFS likes it or not. It’s not for everyone. PFS has the most ignorant group I have ever seen giving opinions that clients are being ripped off when they can’t read a ledger, can’t explain the product, don’t know how to use loans effectively when needed, doesn’t understand dividends,doesn’t understand any tax issues etc etc and proclaim “it’s all a scam” cause their meetings are brainwashing meetings. I once brought an article from the Wall Street Journal which was intended to help and my successful RVP upline say “They don’t need to learn about that stuff and my recruits couldn’t read the Wall Street Journal anyway” and laughed

I’m done for now. Theres a lot more when I get in the mood again. In closing. Don’t buy into PFS’s so called living the dream. Educate yourself, build up your own clients, do the right thing and you wiil feel good about yourself whether you make more or less money than PFS Agents. Your chances of being successful are greatly increased outside PFS. Their success rate is extremely low and their business model is drastically flawed

Yes, PFS brainwashing tactics are second to none

by: The Truth | March 27th, 2010 (12:02 pm)

Peter Cramer…Beautifully said!!!

Thx I wish I can get through to these people. Doesn’t benefit me but it’s just not an honest system and I feel I owe it to speak up

Thx I wish I can get through to these people.

by: representingtheclient | March 27th, 2010 (2:07 pm)

Richard wrote somewhere that, “Some of those companies sell at a loss, then within the first few years, start calling the clients telling them they need to convert over to a higher priced policy.”

The more facts you are shown further off the deep end you go. Richard most of us are not captive. If the insurance company even contacted my clients about conversion or dropping older policies, I and the client(s) would sue the shit out of their asses.

Don’t make me go back to my previous name.

by: representingtheclient | March 27th, 2010 (2:24 pm)

Righard posted, “Hmm…a comparison huh? Lets take a closer look and tell me if this is a TRUE FAIR comparison. If not, then you are a real idiot.

Primerica – Issue Age 27 – Non-Tobacco – $1M Policy. – $118/mo.
Banner – Issue Age 31 – Preferred Plus – $1M Policy – $49/mo

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Especially since Banner is marketing it as a loss leader. 2 different rate classes as well as 2 different ages. But when all you can compete on is price, well, that’s all you get, the cheapest policy out there.”

Richard now I am doubting that you have even sold a policy. That is a true comparison where your company has a 4 year age advantage. The companson that really gets me is that she was standard with your company and with BAnner she is preferred plus. I guess you have to be a marathon/vegan to get those preferred rates with you guys, hunh?

I dont even know why anyone bother with these stubborn PFS people. They just simply will not get it, the term brainwash is probably to most realistic event that has cause this. They just do not understand!

I don’t understand how you can compare prices without even mentioning the terms involved. If I am not mistaken, Primerica has the longest term so far. Its policy covers terminal illness. I know other companies do offer cheaper prices and would offer critical illness, but have you actually look through the criteria on how to get paid. I don’t think that these people actually understand that their chances of getting the claims are very slim. Have you ever seen a policy such as whole life and universal life–it’s stated in the policy that the rates are guaranteed and will never increase and the policy will be paid up at a certain number of years i.e., 10 or 20 years). I bet the face value of the policy will reduce or the premium will increase sometime after since the rates in the policies are not guaranteed.

Good luck to Warburg Pincus for investing so heavily on Primerica. What a joke that so called experts can be so stupid!

LOL Good luck to Warburg and the other 364 out of 380 companies “pitched” that put money into the IPO. 96% success rate. Oh wait, but Peter Cramer is smarter than all of those MF companies and investment firms… let’s listen to him. LMAO!!!

“Good luck to Warburg Pincus for investing so heavily on Primerica. What a joke that so called experts can be so stupid!”
Really? My math says on JUST the $230M initial, they made over $70M in value on day 1.

“If the insurance company even contacted my clients about conversion or dropping older policies, I and the client(s) would sue the shit out of their asses.”
On what grounds? They are clients of the insurance company and thus have an established relationship and thus are allowed to call and do this sort of thing until informed by the client to stop. And you call me an idiot?

“I heard that loss leader stuff back in the PFS days too.”
If you are as smart as you claim to be, you would understand that a “loss leader” is for any company that sells a product, not just insurance. That’s business 101.

“It didn’t work with Citi…”
Are you sure it wasn’t the other way around. Granted I’m not a fan of Citi, but even they had their good points and for a period, we did benefit from being apart of them.

“1, Primericas products are overpriced in most cases. (nothing to debate)”
Not really. Every company gets the same tables and prices according to their own policies. Most companies still have a bread and butter with crap no value policies that they lower prices on term to get sells. Most carriers raised rates due to dropping cash reserves. Partially from the market drop, partially from paying higher death claims than they were used to.

“2. Primericas Home Office is like a big black hole. The organization is poorly run and even most RVP’s & above laugh at their inefficiency but ignore cause some of them make decent money and know nothing else”
Never had an issue. We have the people that get stuff done on speed dial and it all gets fixed quite quickly for us.

“3. There is no such thing as training in Primerica.”
So the pre-licensing class that is mandated by most states isn’t training? The classes for the Series 6/63/26 isn’t training? Weekly going over competitors products isn’t training? Damn you’re an idiot.

“3. The Personal Planning Analysis is not a working document and clients rarely follow.”
Of course its not a working document. Its a snapshot in time!!! Without it being constantly updated by the rep, it’s only value is to wake people up to their situation. And ALL of my clients follow it. I make sure of it.

“4. My previous RVP who was one of the more successful for many years laughed that he makes all this money but hasn’t sold a Mutual Fund in 10 years.”
Maybe because he built a business that pays him so he doesn’t have to? That’s the point of Primerica’s agent side. Some also have great incomes doing mortgages, LTC, loans, etc.

“5. I all the presentations not once was there tax considerations put in the calculation or even mentioned”
I go over that with my clients. Each agent is different.

“6. There is not one PFS Agent who understands how Permanent Insurance works.”
All the RVPs in my office could, and do during training.

“I dont even know why anyone bother with these stubborn PFS people.”
Maybe because you and them like the punishment? You can’t stand having your business replaced so you take to the internet in hopes of dissuading others despite the fact you and the rest of the negative commenters are using very similar language as Ken Young did many years ago. For those that don’t know, instead of competing, he destroyed his career trying to take down AL Williams. In the end, I think he got kicked out of the industry or sued for Slander and Libel. If he couldn’t do it with a 20k agent following, how do you expect to?

Hold on to the stock and good luck. Looks pretty short term. All the Primerica gurus thought they were riding high with Cit Group short term as well

1. You have no idea what you are talking about. You think Primericas policies are superior to other carriers. Keep selling your smoke and mirrors to the suckers. That’s crap and you know it or your brainwashed

2. Prelicensing class you call training. Grow up little boy and sit in real classes. Going over competitors products is a form of brainwashing my man not training. You just proved you have no idea what training is

3. Our docs are real time and can be managed by our clients daily 24 hours. We also visit with our clients as needed. PPA’s are crap that is a static document. Very sophisticated document you have :)

4. Great incomes don’t make for intelligent suggestions. just a lot of misinformed clients. PFS only sells Genworth Long Term Care and few agents understand it anyway. Clients are manipulated into believing their mortgages are beneficial. Maybe works for 10%. I can go to many other sources and blow their mortgages away

5. Not even worth a response

6. The RVP make 3 general statements about permanent insurance as their argument. I have never heard so much misinformation from a group of people. The only reason why you think RVP’s understand permanent insurance is cause you don’t and you just believe what you hear

I’m trying to rescue potential recruits from a scam system of MLM. I’ve never had a Primerica Agent replace my policies that I know of. My retention is 97%. Find out what the average RVP’s retention is once the agent quits and clients realize they have been taken advantage of.

i’m actually doing this as a favor to you cause my business is quite stable and I’m set for retirement based on my diversification strategy. You debating the wrong guy cause personally I don’t really care. It’s actually kind of funny listening to you guys. What’s sad is the clients that you are scamming

Peter Cramer :

To your post, let me summon up what little wisdon I may possess and add…absolutley nothing!

Well put and well said.

Dr. Maguire|

“You have no idea what you are talking about.”
Really? Because I’m in the middle of getting my ChFC certification which goes over all of this. And yes, after getting it, I will still be at Primerica.

“Grow up little boy”

“Going over competitors products is a form of brainwashing my man not training. ”
Actually, it’s a great form of training. Lets you know what is out there and something better exists. Seen many policies that follow a very basic model. Some include features, others don’t. Some are from legal reserve companies, many aren’t.

” Very sophisticated document you have”
Never said it was, just a snap snot in time. Love that twisting, you do that with your clients too?

“I can go to many other sources and blow their mortgages away”
I bet you could with the old loan, it wasn’t meant for everyone and only fitted in certain circumstances. This new set of loans though, doubtful.

“The only reason why you think RVP’s understand permanent insurance is cause you don’t and you just believe what you hear”
So the fact I sit down and actually READ the policy has nothing to do with it? What ever.

“I’ve never had a Primerica Agent replace my policies that I know of.”
Not all states require replacement notices. In fact, Life insurance is the only industry where we must give you a chance to keep your business in some states. It’s kind of laughable to think that when we do a better job, we still have to give you a chance to keep what you WILL lose to us.

“i’m actually doing this as a favor to you cause my business is quite stable and I’m set for retirement based on my diversification strategy.”
Good for you! But I’m just here to waste your time and make you pissy. Seems to be working. Especially since you have committed, as well as several other commenters, libel multiple times. Fortunately for TFB, in the US he is covered under the Safe Harbor provision of the DMCA and can’t technically be held responsible. That and the fact he is in Canada. Don’t know what the laws are like up there. Unfortunately though, his server is located in San Diego which IS in the US and thus his hosting company CAN be hit.

Check your facts on some of the stuff you have on your site. According the the BLS, there are less than 480k TOTAL EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS in the insurance sector. Only about 230k of which are insurance licensed. Not the 1.3 MILLION you claim. Now, there might be that many active licenses, but not agents.

by: Answer this | April 2nd, 2010 (3:10 pm)

Richard from what I have seen Ken Young is deceased. Back in the day of message board battles he did get licensed in the state of Texas.

I knew he was licensed in Texas and I think primarily in Texas.

Assuming he is, may he rest in peace then.

If I recall correctly though, his Anti-AL Williams mantra actually helped INCREASE the size of AL Williams. The same thing you guys are doing now with the Anti-Primerica stuff. All you are doing is adding more fuel for us to fight you with.

by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2010 (4:39 pm)

Richard its not so much Anti-Primerica it’s more about giving out information so people can make an educated decision. If you have ever visited the web site with one of the marketing organizations I market with you will noticed the vast amount of information posted. There’s product, the ability to run quotes and the contract along with other information. You can’t say that about the Primerica web site.

As for numbers back in the ALW days they had over 200,000 reps. How does that compare today. At one time being with Citi for many PFS reps. was the end all, well now that mindset for some has changed.

ALW was owned by Art Williams and he called the shots. Today who owns PFS and who calls the shots? For you PFS is where you want to be but that doesn’t change the contract, compensation or the business model. Not all things are for all people.

There’s a difference between those companies and Primerica. The are more focused on selling a product and increasing profits. Primerica is more focused on helping families and building distribution. Transaction oriented vs relationship oriented.

Yes, before Citi the agents capped out at 225k. Many didn’t like Citi and thought it was a bad move so left. I don’t really like them much myself, but Citi still provided something to Primerica that it needed at the time. What it was, I don’t know.

Art only owned the company until it went public, then it was the shareholders. Today, the shareholders own the company and John and Rick call the shots. I never once claimed Primerica was for all people, but if you truly want to dispense information, you need to do it 100% neutral and not with “there are better options besides Primerica’s outdated and overpriced system.” That immediately shows bias and thus discredits the comment and the commenter a bit.

by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2010 (5:18 pm)

Richard do you actually believe PFS is not about selling a product and increasing profits? Why is there so much excitement about the IPO? Why is there a proposal to award stock to high producers? To you it may not seem about selling a product and increasing profits but I’m sure it’s important to the stock holders.

As for Citi it wasn’t about what PFS needed from Citi, it was what Citi wanted from PFS. Citi wanted access to the middle market. (Read Sandy Weill’s book). They wanted to build a Financial Services Supermarket. Beyond all that it’s business. It’s about market share..

Let me quote myself.

“Primerica is more focused on helping families and building distribution.”

Where in that line does it say that I don’t believe Primerica isn’t concerned about product and increasing products? Nowhere. The difference being is where the focus is. When you focus on taking care of your clients and building out distribution, the selling of products and profits come with it. If you just focus on selling and profits, you lose clients to those that will take care of them. Even if they are more expensive.

And Citi also provided a few thing that Primerica could use.

by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2010 (5:56 pm)

“Primerica is more focused on helping families and building distribution.”

When you start that stuff about taking care of families that’s where all the drama starts.

Well, had traditional companies did that from the beginning, there wouldn’t have been a need for Primerica. Today, I still see more people that need help that no traditional company will touch. They’ve tried and were BEGGING for help, yet they still couldn’t get it from anyone. Primerica got to them and they couldn’t be more thankful.

If going with another company is so much better for the families, then why am I still finding tens of thousands of families that are BEGGING for help, HAVE spoken with another company, and then were told they didn’t have enough assets to matter.

That’s the problem. You say people can do better than Primerica yet I haven’t seen that in the real world. I still see people that want help but agents like yourself haven’t bothered to lift a fucking finger to help them. So if you want to truly prove that families can do better else where, go build a bigger business than Primerica and wipe us out of the industry. I dare you. If you can’t do that, the shut the hell up and move over and let those of us that actually mean what we say take care of the American middle class.

I’m sure when your prospective clients ask you if your company is the highest rated Term carrier for the lowest cost you will come up with why Primerica is superior or maybe just be honest and tell them no we are not. You can tell them that they are going with Primerica cause they like you so much. Can you say the word “lapse”? Term Insurance which is the most basic part of your business is flawed. No reason to go past that. You are too far gone anyway

Anyway. If you choose to stay uneducated that’s your choice.

I think that new potential recruits should be made aware of their pending career choice.

As far as adding more fuel to fight I’m sure you will get enough fuel from your rah rah meetings. I find no competition from any of you

Actually, before my clients even ask about price, I tell them up front we aren’t the cheapest, but are in the lower 3rd of cost.

No competition? You must not be doing enough. That’s the only explanation. You wont find competition if you are not even a blip on the radar. Small fry.

by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2010 (6:38 pm)

Agents like who? LOL.. Do you still think every agent outside of PFS only sells CV products? Man what are they putting in that kool-aid?

If they say that you are who your friends are and that most make what your clients make I assure you that you have more problems then I

“Do you still think every agent outside of PFS only sells CV products?”
No. I never thought that. I’ve replaced more term than CV of late anyways. Sometimes was cheaper, sometimes not.

“Agents like who?”
Agents who prefer to sell products where the only options for your clients if they become uninsurable is to either lower their face amount or pay much higher premiums. Agents that say they know Primerica but fail to grasp what Primerica really is or does, despite being an ex agent.

Peter, I don’t know about you, but I am who I am and make what I make, neither of which have any relation to my clients. And I’ll gladly take more problems than you. Means I have more experience than you and can better serve my clients.

by: Answer This | April 2nd, 2010 (7:32 pm)

Richard you have no idea what options I have at my disposal. I fully grasp what PFS did and does and that’s why I left. Your truths are only your realities. Not mine.

Actually AT, I do. I’m not the brainwashed, child of a baboon you think I am. Remember, I left Primerica, and came back. And that decision was not motivated by anything other than doing what is right for my clients, not for my pocket book.

Peter Cramer you are funny. Tell me and everyone else here what your qualifications are and why ANYONE should take stock advice from you. Why ANYONE should take your advice over following the example of Warburg Pincus or the other 364 companies. What information and insight do you have that you can impart to help everyone avoid the “joke that so called experts can be so stupid”. How much research have you done on Primerica? What is your budget for researching potential companies to invest in? Please enlighten us all. Put your company’s website out here (if that is ok with TFB) for everyone to see.

by: The Truth | April 2nd, 2010 (10:45 pm)

To Richard,

You said the following:

“I’m not the brainwashed, child of a baboon you think I am. Remember, I left Primerica, and came back. And that decision was not motivated by anything other than doing what is right for my clients, not for my pocket book.”

PLEASE, what does PFS have that any other Independent agency or B/D does not or could not offer their clients? The Truth is that you could not make it out there in the real world due to lack of knowledge.

Why do I say this? Because anything you offer thru PFS, I and many others could do it better independently.

So, in my opinion and in many others here you are a Baboon… but I will take it a step further and think you are slow minded, bluntly said you lack a brain to reason with. I don’t want to say “Retard” because after careful consideration, it would be an insult to those individuals if I were to place you in their same class. At least mentally disabled individuals could reason to a certain degree.

by: The Truth | April 2nd, 2010 (10:51 pm)

Richard said:

“There’s a difference between those companies and Primerica. The are more focused on selling a product and increasing profits. Primerica is more focused on helping families and building distribution”

Amazing, what Company in the world operates without the idea of making profits?

That is why you had to go back to PFS. Keeep telling yourself it was for the clients.

That is such a dumb comment… I am speechless!!!

To Cramer,

Beautifully said on your prior posts.

by: representingtheclient | April 2nd, 2010 (10:53 pm)

““If the insurance company even contacted my clients about conversion or dropping older policies, I and the client(s) would sue the shit out of their asses.”
On what grounds? They are clients of the insurance company and thus have an established relationship and thus are allowed to call and do this sort of thing until informed by the client to stop. And you call me an idiot?”

Regardless of what your company wants you to believe. The insurance company can’t go behind the agent’s back for the insurance company’s financial interest and persuade the client to drop their policy or convert to perm. I have not seen it written anywhere but I know that is illegal. Come on Richard, sure you can name a company that practices what you are talking about.
(anyone fill free to correct me on this)

Kate, Kate, Kate…….
“I don’t understand how you can compare prices without even mentioning the terms involved. If I am not mistaken, Primerica has the longest term so far. Its policy covers terminal illness. I know other companies do offer cheaper prices and would offer critical illness, but have you actually look through the criteria on how to get paid. I don’t think that these people actually understand that their chances of getting the claims are very slim. Have you ever seen a policy such as whole life and universal life–it’s stated in the policy that the rates are guaranteed and will never increase and the policy will be paid up at a certain number of years i.e., 10 or 20 years). I bet the face value of the policy will reduce or the premium will increase sometime after since the rates in the policies are not guaranteed.

Kate, Answer This gave a link(march 26, 2010) where you can do an apples to apples comparison. You tell us what in your company’s policy to justify that price discrepancy. Most companies have terminal illness rider free of charge that is better than what your company offers. Terminal illness is differenct that critical illness. Once you learn about CI ask yourself why aren’t we offering this, I have/had many clients that could of benefit from this product?

Kate also wrote, “Have you ever seen a policy such as whole life and universal life–it’s stated in the policy that the rates are guaranteed and will never increase and the policy will be paid up at a certain number of years i.e., 10 or 20 years). I bet the face value of the policy will reduce or the premium will increase sometime after since the rates in the policies are not guaranteed.”

I think you are confused about your 25-30 and 35 year term.


Read the post on the 27th and you can see much of my background. Need to educate yourself on why some IPO’s spike and the agenda of Citigroup. Warrburg found them to be a good value short term cause they were undervalued to help Citi dump them.

I may be wrong from an investment perspective although I don’t think so. What I do know is how the company is run with a real good understanding of the Insurance business. I have extensively seen all sides of the Life business GA, Brokerage & Primerica. Probably aren’t that many with my experience because few people become financially secure on the GA – brokerage end and then move to Primerica. I thought it would be an interesting project.

No need to tell you the specific company other than letting you know that I have the ability to represent most companies like most other brokers and participate extensively in planning training sessions. Not prelicensing class and not obsessively trashing competition by finding a provision in a policy that you hang your hat on. It’s not about company most of the time. It’s the quality of advice. On the other hand I would never in my career represent 1 company. You plan correctly first then choose the most appropriate company. I’m not going to tell you my company and feed you stuff you can turn into propaganda. After all that’s your business model so I expect you to be pretty good on that end.

Primerica has 100,000 or so Agents. Do you have an clue what % are licensed and actually produce business. Very few after they sell their 5 closest friends. #’s can be misleading. That’s lesson #1

by: The Truth | April 3rd, 2010 (12:41 am)

Cramer well done again….

I’m an Independent GA as well and I understand your point. It is practically impossible for them to recruit a GA into PFS. There are not enough (if any at all) benefits to doing such a thing.

For the life of me I can’t seem to understand why they are so narrow minded (PFS agents).

One of the basic principles in Finances is too never invest all of your savings into one basket. The commonly used term is “Don’t invest all your eggs into one basket”. DIVERSIFY.

It is reasonable and makes sense. Now why don’t they see… that same principle applies to building a business.

It is impracticle and absurd to build the business around 1 Carrier. In all my years I have never seen a Carrier be good for all clients. Furthermore, a Carrier that may be good now might not be good later on. So the idea of having multiple Carriers makes great sense.

I have had the personal experience of marketing a particular Carrier for a few years… then soon enough the company changes their programs, pricing goes up, or simply bad management and the Company goes down hill. Some do recover and become competitive again and some don’t.

That applies to Life, Health, Mortgages, Medicare Supplement, etc.

As you said cramer, PFS agents have to brainwash themselves into believing that other Carriers are garbage and look for insane excuses to jutify their great faults and lack of diversity.

Like I wrote a while back, they are only able to appeal the ones with little knowledge and reasoning (Gullible). Business owners laugh at their structure.

It is truly a cult and those draged down with it, will have at some point to balme themselves for believing such a faerie tale.

NO PERSON nor COMPANY will hand over the ownership of their business over to anyone, unless it is an inherintance.

They are puppets making the Executives richer and richer. That my friends applies to PFS, and any other MLM Businesses outthere.

Don’t be fooled!!!

by: The Truth | April 3rd, 2010 (12:44 am)

Correction: dragged and Blame.

by: The Truth | April 3rd, 2010 (12:54 am)

“Primerica has 100,000 or so Agents. Do you have an clue what % are licensed and actually produce business. Very few after they sell their 5 closest friends. #’s can be misleading. That’s lesson #1”

That right there is another powerful statement.

In all 3 MLMs I belong many years ago they all pitched the same thing. Look at the number of agents we have… Thousands!!!

But the truth was that if you were willing to investigate and look closely at the numbers, you find out that a very small number of them (Usually below 1%) were making any decent income. Those in the 1% were leaving of the puppets believing the Dream (Drinking the KOOL-AID).

Again that was a fact in all 3 MLMs I was in, and no I didn’t fail nor am I disgruntled by any means. Afterall I own a very sucesfull GA and I am also an OSJ Branch in my current Independent B/D.(Which I don’t own) B/D I meant.

Help yourselves and look to owning something for yourselves that is trully yours.

Cramer, thank you for playing your part so well. As we can all see it is plain as night and day that if you disagree with Cramer, you are an uneducated, financially illiterate spin doctor. So go get educated all you dumb-dumbs.

Just to be clear, Cramer, your investment advice regarding stocks is not sound advice by any means. You like to say Warburg Pincus and 364 other companies are stupid one day and when somebody points out how obviously wrong you are, all of sudden those companies are just there for the short-term gains. What?! Somebody is going to buy stock in a company for short term gains? Everybody knows that! Stocks are not your expertise so don’t pretend like you know something you don’t.

I agree that it sounds like you have a lot of experience in the financial services industry. That is respectable. But I went through and read just a few of your comments and all the mud-slinging you do is reprehensible. I don’t care what other people might say to or about you. Hold your head up and do what’s right. I am not singling you out because you are the only one doing it, but rather because from your credentials you stated I think you should be upholding a higher standard of conduct. We’ll see in your following posts what road you decide to take.

Your reason for not identifying your company and your website is weak. You say you want to avoid any possible negative conversation or attention by playing the propaganda card. You are ok with slinging mud at Primerica and anybody that disagrees with you from the safety of your computer, but don’t shine a light in your direction. People might not like what they see. If you have such strong convictions that Primerica is ripping people off and misleading them, why don’t you do something SIGNIFICANT about it? Honestly, I think you just want to remain anonymous because your company is much too small to hide in and identifying it would identify you. Prove me wrong. That is what you like to do, right?

Your last question has nothing to do with anything I was talking about, but since you put it out there I’ll respond. If I was overriding those 100,000 agents maybe I would care how many sales each person was doing. Not likely though since I would most likely focus only on the ones that are producing or taking steps to be better producers. The fact of the matter is that all that 100,000 does for me is express the size of our company. The biggest Independent Financial Services Marketing company in the U.S.A. If I want to build a business I have to get licensed and knowledgeable about how to build the business. Then I am going to have to provide a service that is valuable.

If I do not hire anybody, then eventually I am going to hit a wall in how much value I can provide. That wall is my inability to be in more than one place at a time and limited time. If I want to help more people, I will have to recruit, hire and train people. I have to duplicate myself the best I can. The more “MEs” I have out there, the more people my business is able to help. Some will be full-time and others will be part-time. Some will work hard, most will not. That is business. One of the nice things about Primerica is that I don’t have the hassle of paying people. Home office takes care of that and those that produce get paid. Those that don’t produce… won’t get paid.

Only 5% of the US population ever reaches financial independence these days and I strongly believe that is due to a lack of financial knowledge and discipline. So my aim is to go out and help as many people possible become financially independent. I believe Primerica has the resources and ability to actually make that happen. I know that the more people I help (the bigger problems I solve) the more I will be paid. Zig Zigler said it best when he said “you can get everything in life you want, if you help enough other people get what they want.”

Cramer, let’s do that! You don’t have to be in Primerica to do it. I believe that. But you can if you want to. Let’s fight for what’s right including justice when necessary, and do it with integrity. The choice is yours.

Let me clarify fully by saying that the philosophy of every Primerica Agent I ever met ,which are many are basically uneducated spin Drs. Just my opinion I’ve been through the system and every person that believes in their system has the same rap. Maybe you are different but it hasn’t shown. I respect people who have different philosophies but you guys are off the charts in my view and the sad part is your so brainwashed you don’t know it. Let’s give it the benefit of the doubt and say you regularly attend training outside the PFS circle and you know more than your peers. If thats the case maybe I prejudged you.

Long range I believe Warburg Pincus is making a big mistake. Period. Time will tell if they understand the internal works of the PFS system better than I. Actually I respect other opinions so I clarified myself to say that in my view they made a big mistake.

I don’t represent one company cause I’m not a fool and attend outside training regularly. What is the difference if I work independently or affiliated. Primerica makes it clear that all other companies are scams across the board. Their position is clear so why should I set a target for you that you would be unable to evaluate anyway. I use many different companies for different situations and get training internal and externally. You think you can surgically dissect whether I’m right or wrong. You guys are one company one philosophy.

I’ll give you a quick story – I recently met with couple with 2 children who fit the Primerica financial model. Primerica was 30% higher than a higher rated company than Primerica. I saved them their 30% and invested the difference just like you cause in their case permanent coverage did not provide them with reasonable short term liquidity. I put together a plan that they can monitor online 24 hours a day (a working document) and helped them with their budget. Dollar cost averaged using an Asset Allocation based on their age and helped them with ideas to accelerate their savings when possible. Is this couple better off with a Primerica policy, PPA and a PFS Agent with little equity training or what I did for them?

You will not benefit anybody by duplicating yourself unless you get rid of the one size fits all mentality. So I commend you for your passion but encourage you to attend training outside of PFS and use other companies when appropriate. Just be careful cause you are in violation of your contract
FYI – You can hire and train people in most systems and get an override. That way you can help your clients (you sound like you care) and duplicate yourself and start doing what’s right

by: Answer This | April 3rd, 2010 (5:09 pm)

It’s not about the products. It’s about the mindset of feeling like they are on some mission or crusade. There is absolutely nothing an independent agent can’t do that a PFS agent does for a client so there’s has to be something that binds them to the company. It’s the Kool-aid. Us against the world.

Some say it’s not about the money but cash the checks and strive for promotions. Some say they put the client first but never consider the possibility of death tomorrow and the difference in potential death benefit to a beneficiary..

As for outside training…For what? For who? They have their system. They want to keep it simple so they can funnel the masses through.
The wealth is created by the sale of products. The high incomes at PFS comes from working the system. Sell the crusade and work the new recruits warm market… That’s their game plan for greatness…

Excellent post Cramer. Remember that there are over 100,000 individuals in Primerica. Not everyone in Primerica is going to fit the stereotype you mentioned similar to how not everyone is going to fit the racial, religious and ethnic stereotypes of their respective group. There is a stereotype out there for industries including the financial services industry. Thus all the regulations that have been put in place. Stereotypes almost always get put in place because of bad experiences. Bad news travels fastest. The best way to keep from perpetuating those stereotypes is to provide a positive experience for people. For those who have had bad experiences, it is going to take a little extra work to correct the wrong. That is just how life goes. Hopefully the “bad guy” will get caught, but if not, you and I and anyone else that wants to make sure progress continues in this world can continue working towards building people up rather than trying to tear others down.

That includes calling anyone a fool that dedicates themselves to a company. Yes, they should know the risks involved, but there are always two sides to a coin. There are sometimes benefits in exclusivity. Keep in mind the context in which I asked about your company. It was related to your opinion on buying Primerica stock. You jumped the gun in assuming I wanted to tear you down through the company or companies you represent. Again, perpetuating a stereotype you have of Primericans. But we are moving past that, right?

Regarding education, I think this is a very important point and I am going to expand the scope to not only myself and the way my baseshop operates, but to the USA as a whole. Again, 95% do not reach financial independence and it is my opinion based on what I have read, heard and studied that that is due to a lack of financial education. Do you agree? The leaders in Primerica know that not everyone is going to take advantage of the business building opportunity Primerica offers. BUT, if everyone were to attend trainings similar to the ones I attend in our baseshop for even a few months, I know people would leave with a better understanding of how money works.

That is the system I want to duplicate. That is what I believe Primerica to really be all about. Educating the public on the largest scale possible. We have trainings from representatives of all the companies we represent visiting our office explaining how these products we offer can be customized to fit different client situations. Maybe our office is special and maybe that is why I see regular success. If I need additional assistance I can call them. And I don’t pay a thing to attend any of these trainings or the weekly training meetings our office puts on. If that 95% of the population were given that same exposure, I know they would be better off than they were before. At least at that point they can’t say “I didn’t know, nobody ever taught me how money works.” After that it is really just a matter of implementing a game plan.

I am glad you were able to help that family. That is wonderful! I hope they reach all their goals. Remember, don’t fall into stereotype trap. Now you just need to keep duplicating yourself and your system. Hopefully, you will get justly compensated for the valuable time and information you give people. That is one of the biggest perks in Primerica. The ability to be compensated for the rest of your life based on the valuable information and training you provide a new associate. As they go out and help others grow and succeed generation after generation you see that you have produced a self-sufficient business.

Yes, training and education when applied well is good. I think we all agree on that. Another point to remember also is that not everyone needs a surgeon. When a patient is on the brink of death or has something that nobody else has ever dealt with before, that is when the surgeon/specialist is best utilized. The same is true in finance with the clarification that becoming a medical surgeon is tremendously grueling. The majority of people do not need a financial surgeon. They need regular checkups to make sure they are on track and we do that and don’t charge our clients a cent for the time we spend with them. And unlike our bodies which deteriorate as we get older no matter how well we take care of ourselves, money can survive generations after we have gone.

Again, Cramer, thank you for your excellent post. You bring up some informative points that would be wise counsel for anyone in the industry. Let’s go help some people!

For anyone that wants more information on the incentives being offered by Primerica to new agents (especially those that are already licensed) contact your local office.

by: Ramesh Chandra | April 4th, 2010 (8:24 am)

To all subscribers:
You all have strong opinions.
Please keep comments to strictly relevant points, not to bashing a company.
I do want to make some points here:
1. Focus on Primerica as the current public company.
2. It is coming out as a Financial power house with the biggest sales force in the financial services in North America.
3. It wants to do the business by providing financial solutions that are better than what they have for the 85% of middle America.
4. It is providing a valuable service by providing exposure,training and income to a large number of the community(mostly youth) to Financial services.
5. Most of us came here with a zeal to provide these services.
6. We are not foolish to neglect the income potential we have.
7. Like the previous poster pointed out not every situation needs a surgeon, If all the medical conditions are treated in timely manner, the skill set that is needed is not surgical. Even one step improvement can take the American families a long way.

I am a newbie in Primerica. Going to Divisional Leader in my first 90 days or less. But I do have a reasonable exposure to finance before.
I am a licensed real estate agent(successfully). I know what is being a professional is. I am sure most posters here are professionals.
None of us are foolish, stupid, or brainwashed.
Please recognize the need for different models we have to use in serving our communities.

Be Positive.

Remember Primerica is mostly responsible for the firestorm of trashing competitors. Their whole mantra centers around how everyone is scammed by Companies who sell permanent insurance. Whether you believe in permanent coverage or not is your choice. If the PFS argument is that permanent coverage is not a viable forced savings I can understand that and in some cases agree depending on the situation. Primericas stance regarding their blanket statement of not acknowledging a strategy that does work for many is plain ignorant and discredits them as a company and exposes their lack of knowledge and sophistication. I personally sell a lot of lower cost Term so even in that market Primerica will lose. It’s not always about doing “surgery” as some posts refer to. I also duplicate myself by hiring others where I do get an override for training. Not the big multi Level overrides that Primerican get. On the other hand, that is why their costs are out of line. The public needs to realize that virtually all multi level and small variations on the multi level theme are overpriced and in my opinion consumer fraud models. It’s not just Primerica. On all sides of the coin Primerica loses and is a poor business model. I’ll give Primericans the following “It’s probably better than doing nothing” Not the company I want to represent

Primerica IS NOT “mostly responsible for the firestorm of trashing competitors” Do your due diligence and you will find that “Primerica” AKA A.L. Williams 2.0b was not responsible for anything other than calling a spade a spade for the last 30 years. (See the COACH bk, by A.L.Williams)

Truthfully, life insurance has been around for some 200 years. The sale of life insurance in the U.S. began in the late 1760s. The Presbyterian Synods in Philadelphia and New York created the Corporation for Relief of Poor and Distressed Widows and Children of Presbyterian Ministers in 1759; Episcopalian priests organized a similar fund in 1769. Between 1787 and 1837 more than two dozen life insurance companies were started, but fewer than half a dozen survived.
Prior to the American Civil War, many insurance companies in the United States insured the lives of slaves for their owners. (This shows how it was not intended to make an additional profit, because the slave labor was the profit! The “insurance was to protect the loss of said profit should the “slave/African-American worker/ forced labor income earner die) All life insurance was originally term insurance. However, because term life insurance only pays a claim upon death within the stated term, a number of term insurance policy holders became upset over the idea that they could be paying premiums for 20 or 30 years and then wind up with nothing to show for it.

Stay with me now…….

In response to market pressures (not consumer needs), actuaries conceived of an insurance policy with level premium payments that were higher than traditional term insurance contracts. These contracts would offer a “cash value”, which was designed to be a cash reserve that would build up against the known claim – the death benefit. These policies would also credit interest to the cash value account and upon maturity of the contract (usually at age 95 or 100), the cash value would equal the death benefit. This produced a benefit to both the policy owner and the insurance company. By guaranteeing the death benefit, the policy owner was assured that insurance coverage would be in force when the insured died. The insurance company benefited because with every premium payment made, 30% is overcharge and pure profit, and thus the cost of insurance, is able to increase, while premiums remain the same. (30%!!!!!! Dam*, I wish my company operated with that kind of PROFIT!) As far as Variable Universal Life: Securities regulators (FINRA) refuse to allow insurance companies to illustrate VUL policies using a stochastic projection (commonly called a ‘Monte Carlo Simulation’ or MCS), forcing agents to use archaic, antiquated, and deceptive deterministic projections (‘straight line’ or constant interest assumptions) that are far removed from reality. Illustration software with MCS capability has been available since the mid-1990s, but FINRA has forced the life insurance industry into a corner that virtually guarantees litigation.
As for Term: Because term life insurance is a pure death benefit, its primary use is to provide coverage of financial responsibilities, for the insured. Such responsibilities may include, but are not limited to, consumer debt, dependent care, college education for dependents, funeral costs, and mortgages. Term life insurance is generally chosen in favor of permanent life insurance because it is usually much less expensive (depending on the length of the term). Many financial advisors or other experts commonly recommend term life insurance as a means to cover potential expenses until such time that there are sufficient funds available from savings to protect those whom the insurance coverage was intended to protect. For example, an individual might choose to obtain a policy whose term expires near his or her retirement age based on the premise that, by the time the individual retires, he or she would have amassed sufficient funds in retirement savings to provide financial security for their dependents.

This is all insurance 101. But to my original comment about Life Insurance: 250 years and someone besides the agents and brokers should have gotten financially independent and secure. Quotas ruined the industry! If Primerica only has (self-proclaimed) 2% of the market share with 100-200k agents over the past 30 years, then why are the other 98(or 95% in this example) NOT financially free? Obviously Primerica needs to be at more of the kitchen tables than all the other failures! If some no tied independent feels the same tyhen just simply say you agree and partner with PFS by replacing their alleged inferior term policies!
This is North America for crying out loud. If between here and the U.S you can’t get to a better statistic than that, (95% still broke and 5% independent with 1% controlling everything) the INDUSTRY MAJORITY have failed, not one singular marketing arm with the most agents formed 30 short years ago!!!! The Life Insurance industry had 220 years to work their brand of magic: It OBVIOUSLY DIDN’T YIELD DESIRED RESULTS for the average middle income family! Sheesh, it’s pretty obvious to me!

just throwing something out there why don’t right blog about WORLD FINANCIAL GROUP & INDUSTRIAL ALLIANCE I would really like to read some of honest remarks about these other that operate in the same industry as PRIMERICA

by: The Financial Blogger | April 14th, 2010 (8:54 am)

@ Randy,

this would be a great idea but I have never “investigate” them…. I’d say that most life insurance firms or investment firms have the same business model (VP, director, independent salesforce) as opposed to Primerica which is a MLM


WFG and HBW both started out from AL Williams/Primerica agents who either quit because of ego or got fired for ethical reasons (I believe that was the case, the info is sparse on him).

They both operate very similar to Primerica with the model only slightly tweaked to allow better personal production and to attract licensed agents.

Industrial Alliance started as an insurance company and bought companies to turn into a financial services company so works just as any other.

@AT Yes other companies CAN do what Primerica does. I’ve NEVER seen one emphasize it publicly, and have NEVER met an agent that practiced it on their clients till AFTER I showed up and it was too late. Had other companies decided to do what Primerica does FULL TIME instead of sometime, Primerica wouldn’t be around. And you know that. So to your argument, yes other companies can do what Primerica does, and some even have the capital to do it better, but show me a company that is willing to drop 100+ years of practice just to one-up a raggedy company of part timers?

And I don’t know about you, I’ve seen too many wrongs to know that I AM on a crusade to help all I can as fast as I can. For now, Primerica is my tool. I’ve yet to see one stronger and sharper that stays sharper longer.

@Petter Of all the blogs I’ve looked at or commented on, about 95% of the time, Primerica was trashed repeatedly BEFORE a Primerica supporter (I’ve seen clients step in as well as people who are neither but understand what Primerica does and means) comes in and defend Primerica. And not till after that does the “other company bashing” come in. It’s rare for me to go to a forum and the first few posts are Primerica agents bashing other companies any where near as close as to the bashing to Primerica.

A question to all the agents on here, I want to see your response. Don’t give me the response I want, give your HONEST response.

“You meet a family for the first time, 4 kids, both parents work. They want to talk investments and savings and DON’T want to talk about insurance.” What would you do?

by: The Financial Blogger | April 14th, 2010 (10:13 am)

@ Richard,
thx for the clarification about WFG… I don’t think they are very active in Canada so I don’t know them.

by: Answer This | April 14th, 2010 (9:25 pm)

Now Richard you know you are making some misleading comments.

“WFG and HBW both started out from AL Williams/Primerica agents who either quit because of ego or got fired for ethical reasons (I believe that was the case, the info is sparse on him).”

Who is him? I can only speak on HBW but agents are allowed and encouraged to hire and train new people. Also it’s not so much to me about what other companies can do. It’s also about what I can do for my clients. The more I learn the more I can help my clients. At PFS while captive they dictated to what level I could help my clients.

Also doing a web search on WFG it shows a site for Canada.

WFG was created by Hubert Humphrey who left AL Williams after Art sold the company. The details of the conversation were, from what I’ve been told from people who were there that he left because Art refused to rename the company after him.

From what I have been able to uncover about the creator (which I admit is sparse at best), either left Primerica over a disagreement or was fired for ethical violations.

“At PFS while captive they dictated to what level I could help my clients.”

That never stopped anyone in my office. If we know someone who could provide a service to our clients that we personally can not do (for whatever reason), we refer them over. So your argument is bunk.

WFG Croup was started by Hubert Humphrey when he grew tired of playing second banana ti Art Williams.

Just a natural business progression.

HBW was started by Barney hillenbrand, another former Primerica guy.

Don;t know him personally but his reputation seems that he is a fair guy.

Know Hubert and he is a bit shaky but then again most people at the top of these operations never tell the whole truth.

But neither one of them left Primerica under any type of cloud. They just anted to do their own tihing.

You’ve heard what you’ve heard and I’ve heard what I’ve heard.

Either way, both left believing they could build a better system. If the systems they built truly were better, they have had MORE than ample time to surpass Primerica, and yet neither has come close.

cw -. Thx for you history lesson. Love listening to you guys convince yourselves how smart you are when 99% of Primerica Agents feel their PPA is the answer. I take a great deal of pride in helping my clients build wealth for themselves and generations to come. Your clients are in survival mode. Did you ever wonder why Primerica clients are lower middle class at best. No offense to those people but it’s the truth.

Educate yourselves outside the PFS system and then voice your opinion. Until then just except the fact that you are brainwashed and regurgitating your one dimensional nonsense provided by a bunch of totally financially uneducated PFS Agents. It’s embarrassing for you

Peter, I DID educate myself outside of PFS. Stop assuming things you don’t know.

Primerica’s clients are the middle class (not just lower middle) because few to no one wants to service them. I’ve looked. Of all the agents I’ve found, few will give them the service they need to have a better life.

If you guys provide such service to those making less than $30k a year, and do it WILLINGLY as well as seek them out, then you are the exception. If not, your just another traditional agent.

You giving these people a better life by overcharging them for their insurance and teaching people to invest the Primerica way?

If you are talking about people making less than 30k you can sell them your 100k policies and still sleep at night. Those people are better off with you cause the difference in premium is minimal at that amount and they probably don’t have Agents running to their home. In that case I agree

Just stop claiming you know what is to the best interest of most earning families. 30k benchmark proves my point. Is that your middle class?

I have been following this running dialoguie between Peter and Richard and unitl now it has been amusing.

It quickly became idiotic when Richard wrote:

Primerica’s clients are the middle class (not just lower middle) because few to no one wants to service them.

You are absolutely wrong on this.

Their market is targeting the lowest financial group in the nation and that can be readily derived from where their clients are located and matching them to the SMSA data from the Government Accounting Office.

Richard further wrote:

Of all the agents I’ve found, few will give them the service they need to have a better life.

That is about the most Horatio Alger like commnet i have ever read in this forum and smacks of brainswashing.

Are you really on a mission to help the underprivileged?

Then sell them insurance and donate your commissions to food kitchens but do not makle remarks as silly as the one you made here.

Let me let you in on a little secret…There is no money in poor people.

Dr. Maguire

Coudn’t have said it better. The only reason i spend my time to debate these people is to help that one family who reads this blog or that one Agent who is looking to run a legitimate business and is smart enough to educate themselves prior to committing to an Insurance MLM model.


You are so out of touch are you sure you are not brainwashed and drank your own kool-aid? Just curious.

I don’t claim to know what is in the best interest of another family. All I do is educate, coach, and mentor people and provide a service. THEY decide what is in the best interest of their families.

I have clients now that could pay less in fees else where. They KNOW this. They were their BEFORE meeting me. They chose me because they could call me anytime day or night and couldn’t get ahold of their old agent. Even when they went to his office and he was in.

People don’t buy my products, they ask for them once they figure out I’m only here to help. I tell them up front they can get cheaper products elsewhere, I also let them know they wont get the same service elsewhere.

Primerica’s market is the 85% in the middle class, not the dead poor and not the wealthy. The MIDDLE class.

And what makes you think I don’t donate my commissions? Are you really that arrogant to believe that?

The ONLY time I have ever seen an agent fight for a sale, is when they run the risk of having a nice chargeback to them. Otherwise, they never bother. That tells me they were their for the sale, not the family. Of the clients I’ve met that were less fortunate, the ones BEGGING to give money away to get protected, weren’t taken care of. Of the ones with the $60k+ incomes found that they had no idea what they bought and didn’t believe a word I said because the agent was a close personal friend. Until they pulled out the policy and it did EXACTLY what I told them it would do. Even on the term policies.

And my mission is to help EVERYONE I can, without regard for social or economic status. You sir don’t. You said it yourself, “There is no money in poor people.” Hate to tell you this, but working with those poor people will, over time, net much higher returns than ignoring them.

Based on what all you’ve written, I can honestly say I believe you, Peter, and a few others, are so hyped up on your own ego, that you have no idea of what we REALLY do and assume those bad experiences are the same all around. For someone claiming to be a Ph.D, you really don’t show any general knowledge of life or reality.

I read these for entertainment, as I have always found the A.L. Williams.Primerica people brainwashed as they buy into the
” we are on a crusade ” story.

And anyone who does not agree with them is a loser and is just afraid of Primerica etc.

They are sheep getting sheared and they deserve what they get becaus ethey let this happen to them.

They buy into the dream that they will make a lot of money.

How stupid do you have to be to keep talking that mantra when you have been with a company for three years and never made more than $1,200? a year.

Maybe they just can;t count!!!!!!!!

Dr. Maguire

You are wrong that is not their market.

Apparently, yiou know even less than I thought but I do see that Primerica is JUST RIGHT for you.

And having a PhD is not a claim, it is a fact and has been for 25 years.

So, are you donating all you commissions to help save the world? Or just making more silly comments in a forum?

Maybe your calling is working with the Peace Corp in the sub-Sahara Region because it surely is not in knowing anything about insurance, economics or finance.

But the again Primerica is full of the mechanics, waitresses and roofers who turn into financial geniuses at night.

If they are so good at what they do and so smart in the Primerica way…why don’t they just save everyone full time?

Dr. Maguire

Oh so true!

“buy into the ” we are on a crusade ” story.”

If you don’t have a reason to live, what’s the point of living? I have a crusade, do you?

“And anyone who does not agree with them is a loser and is just afraid of Primerica etc.”

Not really, you are free to agree how you see fit. Just know that you are wrong about Primerica. The fact you have a site bent on trying to convince PFS agents away tells me you lost a lot of business TO Primerica and that’s your way of fighting back…. instead of where it matters, across the table.

“They buy into the dream that they will make a lot of money.”

I didn’t buy that one. I bought the one that allows me to spend more time with my family with less stress than my other business. Money was never a front line deciding factor.

“How stupid do you have to be to keep talking that mantra when you have been with a company for three years and never made more than $1,200? a year.”

What’s to say they were too busy to do anything and they just didn’t have time? Seriously. As with ANY BUSINESS, if you don’t spend the time to build a business, you wont get paid shit. Period. That comment t