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	<title>Comments on: Cash Down For a Mortgage: The RRSP Loan Switchback – How to Avoid CHMC Insurance Premium</title>
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		<title>By: Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-10519</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 17:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-10519</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a couple holes in this strategy. First you have to have the money in the RRSP for at least 90 days before you can withdraw it under the HBP.

&quot;&quot;&quot;You cannot deduct the amount by which the total of your contributions to an RRSP, during the 89-day period just before your withdrawal from that RRSP, is more than the fair market value of that RRSP after the withdrawal. &quot;&quot;&quot;
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/rc4135/rc4135-e.html

So you&#039;d have to wait at least 3 months, and be responsible for the interest during that period. I&#039;m hoping this is what @Brian meant by the withdrawal being taxed in the next year. If you don&#039;t wait 3 months it will be (and you&#039;ll permanently lose the RRSP room).

I also have a problem with the line:  &quot;you avoid the risk of seeing the same house value increasing by 10% by the time you accumulate your cash down.&quot; If housing prices are increasing 10% in a 6 month period then you should be extremely cautious, as the long term average is around 3%.

Also: &quot;Since you are forced to reimburse the 40k &quot; isn&#039;t quite correct. Instead of making payments you /could/ count the $2,700 as income each of the 15 years, and pay taxes on it. This might make sense in a year when someone isn&#039;t working. Otherwise it&#039;s likely better to contribute at least $2,700 to RRSPs over the year.

Oh, and it should also be mentioned that using the strategy you&#039;re simply pulling the future rebates you would have received back to the current year. If you&#039;re in a lower tax bracket now then you will be in 5 years you may end up costing yourself money, as the $2,7000 you contribute in 5 years will not generate any tax refund. Then again if you&#039;re using it to avoid CHMC fees it might be a wash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a couple holes in this strategy. First you have to have the money in the RRSP for at least 90 days before you can withdraw it under the HBP.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;"You cannot deduct the amount by which the total of your contributions to an RRSP, during the 89-day period just before your withdrawal from that RRSP, is more than the fair market value of that RRSP after the withdrawal. &#8220;&#8221;"<br />
<a href="http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/rc4135/rc4135-e.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/rc4135/rc4135-e.html</a></p>
<p>So you&#8217;d have to wait at least 3 months, and be responsible for the interest during that period. I&#8217;m hoping this is what @Brian meant by the withdrawal being taxed in the next year. If you don&#8217;t wait 3 months it will be (and you&#8217;ll permanently lose the RRSP room).</p>
<p>I also have a problem with the line:  &#8220;you avoid the risk of seeing the same house value increasing by 10% by the time you accumulate your cash down.&#8221; If housing prices are increasing 10% in a 6 month period then you should be extremely cautious, as the long term average is around 3%.</p>
<p>Also: &#8220;Since you are forced to reimburse the 40k &#8221; isn&#8217;t quite correct. Instead of making payments you /could/ count the $2,700 as income each of the 15 years, and pay taxes on it. This might make sense in a year when someone isn&#8217;t working. Otherwise it&#8217;s likely better to contribute at least $2,700 to RRSPs over the year.</p>
<p>Oh, and it should also be mentioned that using the strategy you&#8217;re simply pulling the future rebates you would have received back to the current year. If you&#8217;re in a lower tax bracket now then you will be in 5 years you may end up costing yourself money, as the $2,7000 you contribute in 5 years will not generate any tax refund. Then again if you&#8217;re using it to avoid CHMC fees it might be a wash.</p>
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		<title>By: lizz</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-8851</link>
		<dc:creator>lizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-8851</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t pay the tax if you withdraw under the Homebuyers Plan...  If using the example above the only loss you would take is to pay the interest on the loan for the next few months, and that the next years (year two after buying the house, then 15 years after) you have to repay 1/15th of the contribution that you made under the HomeBuyers Plan.. so if you withdraw $20K under the HBP,  in year 3 you will have to either repay $1333 into your RRSP, or claim an additional $1333 on your taxes for that year. 

If you can make the downpayment without an RRSP loan, or without withdrawing from your RRSP, then by jove, go ahead. But for this option, it is good for two reasons - 1 - you get to buy a property before a market jump if you think there will be one and 2 - it forces you to put money into your RRSP in the coming 15 years to repay your HBP contribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t pay the tax if you withdraw under the Homebuyers Plan&#8230;  If using the example above the only loss you would take is to pay the interest on the loan for the next few months, and that the next years (year two after buying the house, then 15 years after) you have to repay 1/15th of the contribution that you made under the HomeBuyers Plan.. so if you withdraw $20K under the HBP,  in year 3 you will have to either repay $1333 into your RRSP, or claim an additional $1333 on your taxes for that year. </p>
<p>If you can make the downpayment without an RRSP loan, or without withdrawing from your RRSP, then by jove, go ahead. But for this option, it is good for two reasons &#8211; 1 &#8211; you get to buy a property before a market jump if you think there will be one and 2 &#8211; it forces you to put money into your RRSP in the coming 15 years to repay your HBP contribution.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-8493</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-8493</guid>
		<description>disregard two scenarios .. What i mean is, while there is mention of the HBP in the above article, the main concept is to simply use the refund as the downpayment and not tap into the RRSP for HBP.  That is the premise behind the &quot;switchback&quot; technique</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>disregard two scenarios .. What i mean is, while there is mention of the HBP in the above article, the main concept is to simply use the refund as the downpayment and not tap into the RRSP for HBP.  That is the premise behind the &#8220;switchback&#8221; technique</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-8492</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-8492</guid>
		<description>I shoudl clarify.. There are two scenarios being spoken of in this example.. One is to take the RRSP loan and withdraw it ALL under the HBP.  The other example was to take an RRSP loan, invest the funds accordingly, and simply use the tax refund as the down payment ...

For example: Borrow 20K. You&#039;re in a 40% marginal tax bracket, and you get an 8K refund... You use the 8K as the downpayment, and the 20K from RRSP loan stays invested.  THEN, you take the 20 K out and pay off the loan and voila, your downpayment was created out of thin air!  That&#039;s in one of the couple examples given above.  EXCEPT, if this strategy is employed, you are technically withdrawing the RSP and it becomes taxable.  So you use the 8K as a downpayment, but next tax filing year you&#039;ll owe 8K (assuming a 40% MTR)...

I hope that clarifies it... That is exactly what the above &quot;RRSP loan switchback technique&quot; is doing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shoudl clarify.. There are two scenarios being spoken of in this example.. One is to take the RRSP loan and withdraw it ALL under the HBP.  The other example was to take an RRSP loan, invest the funds accordingly, and simply use the tax refund as the down payment &#8230;</p>
<p>For example: Borrow 20K. You&#8217;re in a 40% marginal tax bracket, and you get an 8K refund&#8230; You use the 8K as the downpayment, and the 20K from RRSP loan stays invested.  THEN, you take the 20 K out and pay off the loan and voila, your downpayment was created out of thin air!  That&#8217;s in one of the couple examples given above.  EXCEPT, if this strategy is employed, you are technically withdrawing the RSP and it becomes taxable.  So you use the 8K as a downpayment, but next tax filing year you&#8217;ll owe 8K (assuming a 40% MTR)&#8230;</p>
<p>I hope that clarifies it&#8230; That is exactly what the above &#8220;RRSP loan switchback technique&#8221; is doing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Financial Blogger</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-8479</link>
		<dc:creator>The Financial Blogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-8479</guid>
		<description>@Brian,

why would it be taxable the next filling year? you are not withdrawing more money than the HBP, so there is no taxes to be paid on the following year?

Can you please explain your thoughts?

A financial planner from Quebec ;-)

TFB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian,</p>
<p>why would it be taxable the next filling year? you are not withdrawing more money than the HBP, so there is no taxes to be paid on the following year?</p>
<p>Can you please explain your thoughts?</p>
<p>A financial planner from Quebec <img src='http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>TFB</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-8475</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-8475</guid>
		<description>You mention this:

What about the 40K RRSP loan? Are we not increasing our debts?

Not really. In fact, when you purchase your property, you are allowed to withdraw money from your RRSP (once withdrawn, you are not forced to use it as cash down). Then, you pay off your RRSP loans. The only cost of this technique will be the interest charged on the loan between the moment you contracted the loan and you pay it back.

----------
Please don&#039;t make this error people.

You&#039;ve forgotten to mention an additional future cost - that is, reporting the RRSP withdrawal for tax purposes come the next tax year ... So that $7,600 (in the 38% tax bracket) that you&#039;ve used for a downpayment will have to be repaid when it becomes taxable the next filing year.  

Any other questions, send me an email - I&#039;m a financial planner in the province of Ontario.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mention this:</p>
<p>What about the 40K RRSP loan? Are we not increasing our debts?</p>
<p>Not really. In fact, when you purchase your property, you are allowed to withdraw money from your RRSP (once withdrawn, you are not forced to use it as cash down). Then, you pay off your RRSP loans. The only cost of this technique will be the interest charged on the loan between the moment you contracted the loan and you pay it back.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Please don&#8217;t make this error people.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve forgotten to mention an additional future cost &#8211; that is, reporting the RRSP withdrawal for tax purposes come the next tax year &#8230; So that $7,600 (in the 38% tax bracket) that you&#8217;ve used for a downpayment will have to be repaid when it becomes taxable the next filing year.  </p>
<p>Any other questions, send me an email &#8211; I&#8217;m a financial planner in the province of Ontario.</p>
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		<title>By: The Financial Blogger &#124; Cash Down For A Mortgage: The Financed Cash Down – How To Avoid CMCH Insurance Premium</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-4149</link>
		<dc:creator>The Financial Blogger &#124; Cash Down For A Mortgage: The Financed Cash Down – How To Avoid CMCH Insurance Premium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-4149</guid>
		<description>[...] I wrote about how to get sufficient cash down to buy your property with an RRSP loan. Today, we are going to look at a more tricky way to literally create cash down for your mortgage. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I wrote about how to get sufficient cash down to buy your property with an RRSP loan. Today, we are going to look at a more tricky way to literally create cash down for your mortgage. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Financial Blogger</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-4024</link>
		<dc:creator>The Financial Blogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-4024</guid>
		<description>I like the RRSP loan technique because it forces people to invest in their retirement plan in order to reimburse their RRSP withdrawal :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the RRSP loan technique because it forces people to invest in their retirement plan in order to reimburse their RRSP withdrawal <img src='http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Studenomics</title>
		<link>http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/cash-down-for-a-mortgage-the-rrsp-loan-switchback-%e2%80%93-how-to-avoid-chmc-insurance-premium/comment-page-1/#comment-4017</link>
		<dc:creator>Studenomics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/?p=976#comment-4017</guid>
		<description>I see the benefits of this method but when I purchased my condo I did not dip into my RRSP account at all. Personally I feel that if you do not have enough of a down payment and extra cash on hand then maybe you sholdn&#039;t be purchasing property. There are tons of other hidden costs that many people to take into consideration prior to purchasing real estate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the benefits of this method but when I purchased my condo I did not dip into my RRSP account at all. Personally I feel that if you do not have enough of a down payment and extra cash on hand then maybe you sholdn&#8217;t be purchasing property. There are tons of other hidden costs that many people to take into consideration prior to purchasing real estate.</p>
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