January 16, 2009, 6:00 am

A Reader’s Question about Primerica Multi Level Marketing Business Model

by: The Financial Blogger    Category: Primerica Series
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Provide an unbiased/accurate source of information about Primerica. That was the mandate I tried to accomplish while writing my Primerica series. When I receive questions such as the following ones, I think I got pretty close. So here’s the email I receive about the business opportunity offered by Primerica:

I have not yet joined Primerica because I haven’t been able to find enough unbiased information regarding the opportunity and others similar. I am hoping you can help me a little bit…

Here are the reasons I was attracted to Primerica:

I currently have a full time career that I would like to continue at least UNTIL my income that I currently generate is COMPLETELY or close to being replaced by something else. I like the fact that you DO NOT have to do Primerica full.

I also like that Primerica does not require large capital to start (ex. buying a franchise) etc.

I like some of the products that they offer (Ex: S.M.A.R.T. Loans)

I do believe in the concept of Buying Term and Investing the difference.

I like that you do not have to open a store front and I thinking meeting clients in their home is more suiting and gives them a higher comfort level.

Here are my main concerns and questions unanswered yet:

Whether Primerica has ENOUGH products to effectively offer a complete financial plan for families.

Whether their rates are reasonable or if they have substantial benefit to be higher.

Whether you can operate a reasonable business ACTUALLY selling and writing financial plans without recruiting. I don’t mind helping others get licensed in insurance, mortgage, or securities if they want to but I don’t care for it to be to benefit me. I prefer to have my OWN success determined by me.

And MOSTLY,
Are there any other companies that you would suggest that allow me to do what I want on a part time basis like I mentioned?

As you can see, Chris (fictional name ;-)) resumed most of Primerica attracting points such as:

- Being your own boss.

- The option of working part time and not leaving your current job.

- The company culture of offering the best product for the client (don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying that Primerica is offering or not offering the best products, but they truly believe in helping the client in their company culture).

- Low start up cost.

I actually agree with most of his points. However, before I start answer his questions, I must say that in this kind of business (personal financial services, insurance, investment), it is really hard to succeed if you don’t work full time. While you have the option of making a lot of money, you need to put a lot of work into it as well.

In regards to product competitiveness (in term of pricing and global offer) I would say that even though Primerica was one of the first (or maybe the first) to offer term insurance, all insurance companies are now offering similar product. Therefore, I don’t think their product structure will give you an advantage neither become a flaw to your business. The main reason is that financial institutions are so strong that they can develop any good products offered by a competitor within months.

I actually don’t believe in pricing as a marketing tool anyway. I rarely negotiate with my clients. Why? If you are selling based on price, you will always have to be the lowest in town for everything, which is impossible if you want to still make money. Make your clients believe in you and in your added value (it can be responsiveness, competency, planning quality, etc.).

However, Primerica’s reputation might affect (for good or bad) your business. Let just say that it is a highly controversial company ;-)

Can you work for Primerica and not recruit people? Sure, but if you do not recruit other Primerica agent, you are missing the main strength of Primerica business model: Multi Level Marketing (MLM). Your commission level is lower than other company in the industry in order to provide you the opportunity to recruit other Primerica agent. If you don’t want to, you are better of with another company.

Do I know any company where you can work part time in this kind of industry? I would answer that most investment and insurance companies where you act as a self-employed agent should let you do it. However, I did not have yet verified with other companies.

I would like to have your input for the benefice of Chris and everybody that is wondering if whether or not they should join Primerica Multi Level Marketing Business Model.

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Comments

As a Primerica client, I can tell you that my rep did an amazing job for me!
I don’t work for them but I was considering a career move like Chris.

I didn’t do it yet because I can’t afford to live on a variable income for now. Is there any insurance company that pays a based salary ?

I have known people who have worked with Investor’s Group on a part-time basis.

Primarica has almost the right idea, but there’s a few drawbacks that can be better dealt with via a different route.

First, their buy term and invest the difference chant has been a boon to consumers over the decades. But it’s not perfect for everyone. Making it a religion where term is always right, no matter what makes things a bit one dimensional. If you’re working in financial services there’s no need to limit yourself like that.

Secondly, Primerica plans don’t offer conversion. And that’s just because they don’t offer permanent plans. Right or wrong – you should at least consider what could happen if you offer your clients products without conversion. Are there any situations where not having conversion could be catastrophic?

And no, they don’t have the least expensive rates. Primerica reps will argue this all day long, but any online term quoting system will display the facts in black and white.

What you should do is make yourself a grid of the advantages of working as a Primerica rep – then do the same grid with yourself as a broker. See how it comes out. My suspicion is that the brokerage route will come out ahead in everything except training and support.

by: The Financial Blogger | January 16th, 2009 (11:33 am)

Money Minder,
you can actually work part time with company such as IG or Primerica, however, I highly doubt that you will succeed…

To fix a statement in TFB’s post, Primerica was NOT the first insurer to offer Term. We didn’t create it, but had a very strong hand in the level term you see everywhere.

To clear the air, all Life insurance is TERM insurance. Cash surrender value/permanent products have a section in the policy state what the cost of it is.

You can work with Primerica and not recruit, that being said, you also wont get promotions. There are people in the company that make $100k+ on personal production alone, several in my office in fact, but if they miss a day or week of work, there income plummets. Had they had a team under them (like employees in a retail store), that would be much less likely to happen.

In my own research, there are not many companies that will recruit part time.

Don’t based decisions on price. Primerica is not the cheapest, and probably never will be, but we are competitively priced (usually within $5 – $10/mo).

And in response to The Term Guy’s second point. Primerica offers an exchange option. Meaning instead of converting to a much higher priced (or lower face amount) permanent policy, it will trade itself out for another term product, many times another level term. Although many companies allow this so long as you re-qualify medically (you get cancer, your screwed), Primerica does not require a medical check to exchange a product. Medical is only required on new issue and raising coverage.

From dealing personally with other insurance agents, CFPs, Advisors, and Analysts, Primerica has more than enough product to complete a financial picture for the majority of families. About the only product I know of, that is of worth getting into, that Primerica does NOT offer, is medical insurance. That being said, the rumor mill has been going on for the last 2 years that we will be offering it soon. Again, thats a rumor with no real evidence.

Chris, the recruiting aspect is crucial for ANY business. In order for you to have any real success in any business, you will need to recruit. Period. If you ever want to take a week off and not worry about income, someone needs to be there to do business. If you ever take 6 months to care for your dying mother, you will need someone to do business. The only way to have that happen is to recruit people. It helps them as much, if not more so, as it does you.

What ever you decide to do Chris, good luck.

Two counterpoints.

First, Primerica in Canada is rarely competitive based on price, despite what is being stated.

Fact: Male, age 40, $500,000 of 20 year term, regular health

RBC: $99.90 per month
AXA: $101.25
Equitable: $102.15
AIG: 102.60
Canada Life: 102.60
Western: 105.37
Manulife: 106.25
and on and on for another dozen or so companies all cheaper than Primerica until we see:
Primerica $118.75

It’s like they’re pricing it to be dead last.

But I’ve had this conversation too many times in the past. Primerica says ‘we’re competitive’. They’re proven factually wrong, and the conversation goes off on something else that takes the light off the fact they’re not even close to being in the running.

And then you mention conversion, and Primerica reps all have the canned response of ‘we have something that’s just as good’. Except term to term exchange is NOT conversion and it’s nowhere near as good, and just about everyone else in the industry (including most of the companies listed above with cheaper rates) have real conversion to permanent at no charge. The first time you deal with a client that needs conversion but has a Primerica policy and can’t convert is the LAST time you’ll ever recommend a product that doesn’t have conversion. Conversion is like an air bag. It means nothing until you need it. Then, it means everything.

You’d think that’d be the end of it. But I doubt it will be. Primerica reps are primarily evangalists, so you won’t get anywhere discussing things with them. Facts and alternative (possibly better) options are not acceptable.

Hi,

I am the person who this post originated from… I am interested in getting started in Financial Services and since had been aproached by Primerica. I have read both positive and negitives for the company and personally think I would prefer to be independent but being COMPLETELY NEW to the industry, I don’t know if that is best for me and my clients. I would like to get educated on the products, industry, and such and start out in this business part-time only because I am the main provider for my family and can’t afford to not have a income while starting up. I would make the switch to Financial Services immediately if I were able to find a company offering a reasonable salary of sort ($2500-$3000 USD/mo.). I haven’t found this company yet and that is why I am looking at getting into the business part time. I have FULL intentions of going full time once I have built my book of business enough to replace my full time income. I would like to be able to offer clients a full portfolio or products (mortgages, life insurance, p&c insurance, health insurance, investments, ect) and that is why I am remotely interested in Primerica. I am not however about to start in this business helping my family and friends and offering them products that are more expensive and less valuable than most others on the market…. that is what is drawing me away from Primerica.

Here are the two ideal sitiuations I am looking for that would love help in finding:

1) A financial services comapny that provides some sort of salary or training guarantee of aprox $3000 USD/mo.

2) Info on how to get started independent on a part time basis with a business plan that will transform to full time once the income is there. And which companies to do so with and how to get properly trained.

Any assistance is GREATLY appriciated!

First, I’m in Texas and not Canada. I can’t speak for any other place but Texas. And from all the places I have seen, Primerica is competitive.

Second, compare rates on a 30 or 35 year term policy instead of a 20.

You are partially right about conversion. Conversion only really matters when the client has a non-insurable condition and needs to keep coverage with a company that is not guaranteed renewable. Primerica offers it, as well as several other carriers, and it exchanges based on current age rates alone. One the policy is issued, it can not be taken away, even at renewal time, due to health.

And those permanent plans that one can convert to without proving medical, are usually one of 2 things. MUCH higher in premium, more so than an equivalent term, to keep the coverage, or a reduction in coverage to keep it affordable. If someone can’t afford it, what good is it?

And lastly, why are you even comparing on price? If you compare on price alone, it is buyer beware. You WILL get screwed.

Chris, any company financial services company that will have you on a commission based income AND provide a monthly draw, does so with the clear understanding that if you don’t make enough to cover the draw, you will be fired after a certain amount of time.

I have also heard reports that some carriers have monthly quotas of products that you must sell, regardless of the benefit to the consumer. Right now, this is hearsay, but from many sources both in and outside of Primerica.

If you work with a company that gives you a salary, traditionally, you will not receive a commission and thus limiting your income and growth potential.

Of the list of services you mentioned, health is the only one that Primerica does not do. However, there are still rumors that it will happen.

To get a better idea of Primerica, sit through the meetings, not just the Opportunity meeting, the actual meetings. Ask questions and make a decision based on personal experience and not on what us agents or anonymous posts say. After all, when doing research online, you must consider the source.

Although TFB has done a great job keeping his posts as close to unbiased as possible, I would still not use him as a “credible” source since these are still his opinions. I would use them, however, to raise questions that would need to be answered.

Sorry TFB, you do a great job, but being an internet junkie myself, I have to look at everything as opinion and not fact.

by: The Financial Blogger | January 16th, 2009 (10:35 pm)

Richard,
I agree with your comments ;-) I am trying to together my opinion without bashing anybody. but still, it is my humble opinion :-)

Chris,
I highly doubt you will find what you are looking for. In French, we would say that you are looking for the butter and the money from the butter (I would had that you would like to have the cow as well ;-) ).

You need to get trained first. Price don’t matter if you give good advice. People are always very proud saying that they got a deal on a life insurance or a mortgage rate but if they do everything themselves (without financial planning knowledge), they will mess the whole picture by getting “deals” here and there.

Get trained, get good and then you will be able to help your family and friends with good planning instead of good price ;-) Don’t get me wrong, I’m not telling you to charge them a high price and make money out of their back. But it’s impossible to get the lower price on every product all the time ;-)

Lots and lots of good infos on here an I have learned a lot. I had questions about what type of people work at Primerica as I’ve heard anyone who passes the exam can join, is that true? Doesn’t it take away at least some credibility? Not trying to be offensive but I have been wondering about that. Also, how are reps gaining the info to explain past month returns or explain differences in volatility and return between funds? There’s many interesting aspects about the business but those make me wonder because I know someone who works there and has never studied or worked close to finance but I tend to think it is imperative to have someone with good knowledge for financial advice. Any comments???

Please read this article of the NewYorkTimes about Citi:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/01/14/business/20090114_CITI_GRAPHIC.html

Citigroup is spinning off part of its operations, such as Primerica Insurance Business and Smith Barney, historically owned by Primerica. Since Citigroup is selling those operations, can we still believe on Primerica? What impact will it have?

Intelligent Speculator:

First, it is up to each agent to recruit people, not the company. So everyone has there own ideas of who should be working. You will find some people that will recruit anyone with a pulse. Others, such as myself, are a bit more discerning. In my office, we do train our people quite well. Most is learned “on the job,” but that can also be said of virtually every business.

The tests are not very hard to pass and the concepts are simple and sound. It does not take a college grad to learn it, and in many cases, does not warrant one.

Training on such things are usually handled by each office. Mine does it twice a week. We have had representatives from Legg Mason, Met Life, and Van Kampen come in and share this, and more, information with us.

Sound advice comes from experience, not books.

Sophie:

Smith Barney has no dealings with Primerica. The investment side of the business is handled by PFS Investments, Inc. The break away from Citi on the other hand, will bring things back to before Sandy Weil was around. In my opinion, it will be a great thing. Primerica is not going away. We are the only profitable arm of Citi and are extremely stable. At least according to the balance sheets, the 10-k fillings, and the amount of growth we are going through right now.

It should also be pointed out, that of all the major insurance carriers, Primerica was the only one to turn a profit last quarter. At least from what I have found and have heard. Check the 10k Filings to be sure.

Richard thanks a lot for the infos, that clear up things. Let’s say you and your office build a highly capable and talented team that go out to meet clients, do you think you are hurt by other offices that as you say will take any breathing person? If so, do you feel that is/should be adressed?

As far as the image of the company goes, when people realize what we are really about (recruiting is not it), I don’t believe it impacts the image one bit.

As for it being addressed, the system already addresses it. Those that spend more time recruiting, and not building or training the team, usually end up leaving frustrated along with those they recruited. The rule of thumb the company puts out is, don’t recruit someone unless you would trust them with your kids.

As for the complaints you find online, they can be summed up into 4 categories, and these apply to pretty much any company and not just Primerica:

1) “I didn’t get paid” – Either didn’t get licensed or did no sales after getting licensed.

2) “I got screwed!” – A bad agent did this, not the company. Bad agents are in every company, just more pronounced with Primerica (100k+ agents vs about 20k)

3) “They have shitty products, everyone else’s are much better” – Typically agents from other companies spreading “helpful” information.

4) “They have a 99% Turn over rate” – So does every other company out there. They will hire 9 people to do a job and within 6 months only 1 will be left. People just don’t want to work.

About 98% of the complaints I have seen, fall into one of those. The last 2% are either niche cases or legitimate complaints.

Chris, this rambling is illustrative of the typical Primerica militant evangalism. You can go around for ever on this, Primerica reps won’t stop.

case in point::
- Any US based term quote software will show you companies that are 10% cheaper than Primerica. AND all those companies will fully guarantee those rates for the full 25 or 30 years. I believe Primerica does not fully guarantee those rates for the full level period. So they’re not competitive in the US either.
- Richard claims price doesn’t matter. Do you actually believe that? And conversion doesn’t matter. Do you believe that? what if you can get a product with conversion, cheaper. That doesn’t matter? I can get better products, cheaper, but they’re either still not as good as Primerica, or those things don’t matter.
- Richard selling based on price is the wrong way to go. I sell a handful of policies DAILY. It’s possible I sell more in a week than Richard’s entire office does in a month. And every sale I do, one thing I address is price. Telling me that selling on price is the wrong way to go is like teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. I’d bet quite a bit that I ‘sell’ substantially more policies than Richard does or ever has. So in direct contradiction to what you’re hearing, yes, you can sell based on price. It’s something my clients seem to care about.

by: Answer This | January 17th, 2009 (12:18 pm)

What training? Training on Primerica products? To make it big at Primerica you have to have a big organization. if you doubt me, ask some of the big wigs. they sau you have to go through the numbers. The quicker you do it the faster you will get to RVP. Also don’t forget considering you get clients from referrals of a recruits warm market the more people you recruit, the more people you will get in front of. Forget the quality of the products just work the PFS system and you will earn the big bucks.

I do have to ask this question. If Primerica isn’t about recruiting can an agent advance from personal production?

I don’t know about other offices, but in ours, we train on many products, not just Primerica’s. We learn how they work and the good and bad about them.

Like EVERY business, this is a numbers game. The quicker you do them, the faster you grow. That is the same for EVERY business.

Primerica is about helping families. Period. Take a look at the history and read the stories of actual clients. Last year we paid roughly 900 million in death claims. About 600 million of that would NOT have been paid had we not been around.

As for promotions, until you are an RVP, your upline RVP sets the guidelines. If they wish to promote on personal production, so be it. The guidelines do require recruiting and developing, not just recruiting.

You can twist it anyway you want, but as with any business, you need to recruit to grow.

by: Answer This | January 17th, 2009 (4:48 pm)

I’m not twisting anything. I agree Primerica does some massive business, but that still doesn’t mean thatt he products stand out against others and the fact that the contract gives the company a major advantage compared to the agent. The guidelines are just guidelines. What do you mean by developing? Primerica is about making money period. How much more would those actual clients have had if they had shopped with other companies. Out of those death claims how much more would the family possibly have had if they had went with another carrier?

PFS preaches the rule of 72, but doesn’t consider it when “doing what’s right 100% of the time.” and does Primerica offer a disability policy? If not why? Is PFS concerned about Sec151A?? No because you guys don’t sell Indexed products. As individual agents are you concerned with SEC151A ? No because you don’t sell indexed products and your vision is only what Primerica feeds you.

Just so you know I don’t mean to bash or make it seem like Primerica is a scam. They are not a scam by any means. They have their way of doing business and it works for many. yet there’s so much a new green person to the industry just doesn’t know. My point is many agents don’t know what they don’t know and they only go by what Primerica tells them in the “trainings”. Giving up legs isn’t a common industry practice.. Noncompets are common, but why be under one if you don’t have to? Starting out at 25% in my opinion is just plain wrong. I think the person who makes the sale should make the most money. As I said me myself have gone through the Primeirca door and at the time I was very happy with the contract and it’s limitations. That’s until I learned a few things. Primerica per contract has to protect tehir interest and do what’s in their best interest and once my eyes were opened I understood that I had to do the same.

Forget all the rah, rah, hype kool-aid keg party. Consider the business side. The products don’t matter. It’s about getting in front of as many people as possible. Recruit to sell. Why do you think they came up with that quote about price is only a consideration in absence of value or something like that? How else could they sell the reasoning to their sales force about why the charge what they do.

PFS agents are some of the most loyal agents around, but quit. You will see that the company will send a letter to you from the legal department explaining who owns who and what. Then to top it off you won’t hear from all the friends you made at PFS anymore. You will be accused of not being able to make it in Primerica and you only sell cash value.

As always if your happy with the contract you have and the products you offer, bless you. Your at the right place for you. For me it was about the crusade. One day I understood the crusade was really about profit. Company first. It’s big business..Ask Citi..Now I hear PFS is taking Citi off of their business cards. Is that true? Boy how times change.

The Term Guy:

We never said you couldn’t sell based on price, but rather you SHOULDN’T sell based on price.

Business 101: Prices matters in the absence of value. That is a business philosophy not a Primerica one.

I will agree though that the average policy the customer will get is about 5 to 10% cheaper than a Primerica one. But that average amounts to about $2 – $10/mo. Hmm. 10% sounds larger to the client.

I never said conversion doesn’t matter, but that it is only of concern when that is the ONLY option you have. Given how all life insurance is TERM insurance, why not just stick with it?

You are also right on another point, you do ‘sell’ more policies than I do. I don’t sell them. I give my clients an A/B view of what they have vs what I can do. They tell me what they want. No selling involved.

Answer This:

Recruiting – Fills out paperwork and submits money.
Developing – Recruits, learns the business, and helps families.

All companies are about making money. Primerica is no different in that respect.

As for how much more they would have had, not much. Maybe to the tune of another $5k per family. Maybe less. The fact of the matter is that when we got to them, they were either under insured or not insured. Because WE came to them, they got the money they needed.

For Sec 151A, I can not speak on behalf of the company. I can only speak for me. I think it is good idea to turn them into securities. It would require a pure life insurance agent to expand beyond and get a securities license allowing them to do a better job with the client.

You make it sound like giving up a leg is a bad thing? Especially since it only happens once. You do realize that real estate brokers do the same thing right? When their agents turn into a broker, the upline keeps a few agents. Think of it like a franchise system. If you open a new place, don’t you want to send your best guy over to train but keep a few behind so you don’t get screwed?

Oh wait, that’s common business sense. The average salesman wouldn’t understand that.

For me, the crusade is preventing what happened to my family from happening to others. After years of research, Primerica was the ONLY company that would let me do that. I’m not here to keep people in life insurance, I’m here to make sure their families don’t get screwed and work them OUT of it. If something is not needed, why pay for it?

As of Jan 16th, Citi split and Primerica is no long apart of Citigroup. As of the Wedensday before, Citi was being removed from all marketing material.

And frankly, I’m glad.

Great comments gentlemen, this last comment caught my attention for a few good reasons: After 20 yrs as a drycleaning plant owner, I retired to my hobby of real estate as investor and realtor– and jumped into the fire! So Chris I can tell you this, working part time is way better when you have money coming in, full time job, pension, wife`s paycheck, etc. Converting that part time commission work to a full time paycheck is very hard and will require talent, skills and some luck so stash every dime you get and expect it to take years not in months.
One of my listings was a condo in Chicago that did not sell and I was feeling a little depressed — well I was a easy mark for the seller as you might have guessed was a RVP for Primerica. In June I signed up and promptly passed the insurance exam. Here are my quick remarks to your comments: Forget the price — I would take healthy people that can get insurance! Pricing out term and a Roth will beat whole/universal any day of the week, even before you get into surrender charges of whole. Most of the people I talk to have some kind of health complication, diabetes, injuries etc that are just enough to deny insurancea dn these are people in their 40`s.
2nd the SMART loan requires equity and a lot of homeowners just don`t have any in a declining market. I am in good middle class neighborhoods and the city market of Chicago– business owners, architects all the white collar jobs the people are very skittish about their future, Richard you have the same problem?.
The best thing I can say about selling Prim financial products is when you hit and I have only one good smart loan closed– you do a lot of good talking away a ugly adjustable loan, knocking off some high cc debt and giving a family some breathing room. Of course now I have to badger them not to use the cards and put money away for retirement and of course send referrals. Sales job: referrals, recruiting and always be closing.
Other than that they have very good products, excellent website, lots of training, travel if you want it and the best part of all is learning new skill sets for insurance, mutual funds, IRA, long term care.
So far I am happy with Primerica, the cost is peanuts compare it to a new drycleaning machine which may cost more than a 100K. The money is peanuts too I would rather have a 1M condo buyer but those days are over for now. I will keep plugging along with Primerica
Finally my last comment– Primerica needed to be on its own, I too am glad that it split. I guess I will be buying new presentation material, nobody really cared about who BanaMex is!

People are skittish when they don’t trust the person they are talking to. When they are comfortable, the sky is the limit.

My realtor is a perfect example. I have been working with him for over a year trying to find the perfect house. He has given us loads of valuable information to help us find the right area and to not get screwed. He has done all this without us being “signed” to him as well.

Because of what he has done, he is guaranteed our business as well as referrals.

As for $.M.A.R.T. Loans, they are simply a tool. Regardless of if they have enough equity or not, I will run the app. It’s free anyways. However, when I get the conditional statement back, I evaluate their plan both with and without. Even if they qualify for one, if it will NOT be a benefit to the client, I wont do it. In order for it to be a benefit, it has to not only reduce their payments of all debt, but also reduce the amount of total interest paid.

It does not always do that.

Same with their investments, if they are doing good where they are at, I wont move them unless they ask.

Quote=richard
———————–
You are also right on another point, you do ’sell’ more policies than I do. I don’t sell them. I give my clients an A/B view of what they have vs what I can do. They tell me what they want. No selling involved.
———–

Chris, as I pointed out, all you’ll get is run around and sales jobs from these folks. I claim I ‘sell’ more policies – by orders of magnituted – than this guy does, his response is that he doesn’t ‘sell’. I’m pretty sure if he or any of his crew sold anywhere even in the neighbourhood of the numbers that I do that he’d have been crowing about it, rather than talking about his sales techniques, which clearly don’t work. Mine do. And I sell a lot more term than this guy does – and not by a little bit. So, lets split hairs on terminology as a way to avoid discussion. I suggest you re-review the previous posts, look at the facts I’ve posted, look at the non-factual responses,and take something away from that. I can’t actually ‘sell’ either, which is why I have to provide the least expensive products at the lowest prices. As this discussion has shown repeatedly, Primerica’s not about price, because it doesn’t matter, it’s about features,but when you can get better features elsewhere (and at a better price), well then those features don’t matter either. So not sure what the competitive advantage is (there isn’t any. It’s a militant evangalism. Just like the whole life people they complain about).

You’ll see these arguments repeated everywhere on the internet. This discussion is the same as all of them. Primerica believers are fervent and they won’t let facts get in the way of bludgeonging the discussion to death.

I run a discussion forum for insurance agents, mostly independent. if you want a broader based view of the industry than just one company, you’re welcome to visit there as well; it’s at american insurance broker dot com. Lots of new members and there’s plenty of old timers willing to help.

The Term Guy;
You can be about selling all you want, I’m about helping families. Plain as that. I’m not going to argue numbers because there is no point.

Chris, if you want facts from the source, sit through their meetings. Sit through Primerica’s and any other insurance agency out there. When ever they have them. Take notes and compare. Ask questions. Don’t take my word or anyone else’s.

Make your decision from that.

All internet discussions that a Primerica rep has been apart of, there are typically 1-3 anti-Primerica agents going against them. If Primerica is so bad, why are they that anxious to quash anything positive about the company?

Look at the history of the industry and what all the companies have done. Look at what those “better” companies have done to try to kill Primerica. It’s been 33 Years, you would think they would have learned by now.

by: The Financial Blogger | January 19th, 2009 (12:59 pm)

Chris,

Richard got a good point. take all your questions, and ask them to Primerica directly. I think you’ll be able to find your answers between this internet discussion and real live answer from an RVP. never close any doors before you checked what was inside
that’s my mojo ;-)

by: Answer This | January 20th, 2009 (2:29 pm)

Richard. You say developing learns the business. the problem is they only learn the Primerica way. As for the 151A. If it ain’t broke why fix it? The SEC currently doesn’t have a great track record of keeping the investment community clean.

In my opinion giving up a leg is bad. I am building a business. if I find a stud and train them i want the benefit of my labor. Now if there were no other options I would just accept it, but we are talking real dollars…Now for that absence of value stuff, you guys preach about the rule of 72, i’m sure you understand every penny counts. Primerica is an option but not the only option. I say take the emotion of ut it and consider both sides as a business decision. Why be captive if you don’t have to be? Why give up a leg if you don’t have to? Why have a full-time requirement if you don’t have to? Why start have to recruit to advance if you don’t have to? i don’t have any issues with the Primeica business model. My point is just understand it, because people can make more elsewhere and have more freedom. Primerica isn’t doing anything special that people can’t do outside of primerica. When I was at PFS there were things about the industry i just didn ‘t know. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. i understand it’s business, but but from what I know now, I can pretty much guarantee in competition for a recruit or business I can beat you primerica guys across the kitchen table 95% of the time. the other 5% is a family member. I was there. I was loyal. I believed. Primerica just has their way of doing business and if it fits you I say great, but if you do some research you may find out that there’s quite a bit of hype and you may be losing out on income from being captive. Don’t believe a word I type. Do some research on your own.

As fof other companies trying to “kill” PFS, you also have to look back at the history fo ALW/PFS. They did and do still attack companies over the cash value thing. so if you are going to dish it out, be ready to take it. Hey at the end of the day it’s your business and your life.

I have researched other companies. I do know I can get paid much more elsewhere.

We attack cash SURRENDER value because it is a poor product. It is just TERM insurance with a low yielding savings account and high fees. Period. Whole Life is traditionally Decreasing Term. Universal and Variable Universal are typically Annual Renewable Term.

Whole life is designed for the insured to essentially become self insured by the time the policy endows. How is that fair for the client?

Universal and Variable Universal are designed to collapse onto themselves, hence why there is a notice on the front page stating as such.

How are these products better than pure term?

When you give up a leg in Primerica, you only lose 1 Leg. You still have 5 left and you get to receive from then on. When a real estate agent becomes a broker, the original broker no longer receives a cut of their sales. Or so I understand it as such. Yet no one complains about that.

We are free to think our own ways. You keep thinking like a salesmen, that is all you have shown me thus far. I will keep thinking like a business man. After all, I do have other businesses that are still moderately successful. Everything that Primerica has asked of me comes naturally since I have already done it before.

I do understand the Primerica way and the Industry way of doing things. From a business stand point, and that of my family, Primerica was the better option. It also allows me to sleep at night knowing I am not giving them a product that was designed strictly for increased profit and commission.

Didn’t you know that Universal Life was created to combat the Buy Term and Invest The Difference? Created shortly after Primerica entered Texas and the Texas Department Of Insurance conducted an investigation on the company at the behest of your companies. After the investigation, your companies were told, in essence, compete or die by the Texas Department of Insurance because AL Williams & Associates were merely talking truth to the consumers. When that commissioner retired from TDI, he went to work in our legal department I believe.

Or what about the “killer” investigator, from Pennsylvania I believe, known for shutting down companies, call AL Williams & Associates “the greatest bunch of guys he’d ever met.” Then came to work in the Compliance department.

Or how about Prudential that claimed Primerica used deceptive tactics and twisting to sell products, only to later receive a $220 million dollar fine for doing that exact thing?

by: Answer This | January 20th, 2009 (6:29 pm)

Richard today Universal life can have guarantees. Whole Life is designed to be there at death. That’s why now there are some policies that will go as high as 120..PFS attacks cash value to sell Term. That’s it pure and simple. We still don’t see the masses who did the BTIV and are financially independent. Insurance is nothing more than a tool. You have to choose the right tool for the situation. I’m not a big proponent of cash value, but it does have it’s place. My concerns arn’t about cash value verse Term. My issues are new people going to PFS and not knowing what they don’t know. As I asked before, why give up legs if you don’t have to? That’s a direct potential income hit.

As for free to think as they feel, that’s not entirely true. What if you think you want to offer clients disability or critical illiness. You can’t. What about Indexed products, you can’t. Your captive. I know the history of Universal Life, remember I was once in PFS also. I heard the tapes. Did you know Art Williams once said that the cash value guys could never compete with ALW because of their business model they couldn’t afford to offer Term as cheap as they could? Yes my RVP let me listen to the old tapes.

People are sold on the business. People are in business to make money. In my opinion and which can be verified. People can make more and have more freedom outside PFS. Now if they choose to go with PFS, I say more power to them. I’m just giving information. I have been inside PFS and now i’m outside and I can honestly say I can do everything you can do for a client and more, but you as a PFS rep. can’t do what I do. I don’t doubt the mission of the company. I just think people need to look beyond all the hype and understand ther’s also a business side. If having a non-compete, giving up legs, having a full-time requirement, missing out on renewals, etc. is ok with you, go for it.

Me I like the freedom. Immediate ownership of my clients and down-line and the ability to contract with many different carriers if I so choose. Not to mention the ability to bring other professionals on my team and let them pick and choose what products they would like to offer. Yet that’s me.

Here’s something else to kick around. As for your legal plan. Do you know they get ownership after 12 months? Do you know they are paid renewals. from what i have heard at PFS it’s the RVP and above who is paid renewals on that business. Is there still a requirement that a person has to become Life licensed within a certain time frame even though you have products that may not require licensing?

So at PFS you can possibly be losing income from PLPP business renewals, LTC renewals, and then you have to give up a leg and go full-time to get the RVP contract.
You can bring up all the term verse cash Value arguments you wish, but your agent agreement and compensation structure is what it is. If you like it, it’s the best plan for you.

Owning ones book of business and clients. That’s funny. The reality of it, regardless of how you or any other agent spins it, the company(ies) you represent OWN your clients business. They pay you to maintain it.

But that is business.

You keep talking about income and how it is better else where. I know I could get paid better elsewhere. But I’m not concerned about the money. After all, it’s only money. It can’t buy happiness, cure cancer, or anything else. It only has a perceived value. The truth of the matter is there is only about .20 cents of gold, if that, per $1 in US currency. So it has no real monetary backing.

The only time I have ever seen a real value in having a cash value policy, is when the client has NO option and that is all that is available.

And I never said Universal didn’t have guarantees, just that they are designed to collapse on themselves. I’ve seen the policies and have replaced ALL of them. The clients where never happier.

I wasn’t sold on this business to make money. If I was, I would take the offer from HBW that has been hung in front of my face. I was sold on the facts. All life insurance is Term. Why pay for an inferior product that is best served separate.

In cases where you say a cash value is better suited, I can setup a term policy with a savings account that will earn, on average, 2 to 3 times MORE than a cash value policy would and still achieve the same effect.

Cash value policies are meant to increase company profits. Period. It is just easier for the agent to handle one application instead of 2 or 3. That and the quotas probably help a bit.

by: Answer This | January 20th, 2009 (7:51 pm)

Richard i’m not trying to spin anything. I can offer or change any product if it’s in my clients best interest. If your not concerned about money don’t take any compensation and tell PFS you don’t want any increases in commission. As I said before cash value isn’t an issue. As for company profits, term goes to claim about 2-3% of the time. If a UL has a guarantee built into it how is it designed to collapse. That’s are the old way of looking U.L.. I could sell it, but I don’t. I also have replaced many perm. plans, but I gave my clients the choice of replacing or just adding a term plan to what they have. Some people want to guarantee that a certain amount will be paid to their spouse or whatever when they die. Guarantees cost money. Just as a side note I have also replaced some PFS plans. Some companies rate women lower.

As for company profits, what about a 30 year term plan that isn’t guaranteed for the full term? Didn’t PFS at one day have a policy like that? Do they still have a term policy that isn’t guaranteed for the full term? Hey as I said, you do you…..It’s your business and your life. I’m sure there are some people who will read this and the compensation and the stipulations with in the agent contract is important. Now that you mentioned HBW people are going to search out who they are. Well let’s also bring in capital choice or PPMG..AFLAC and yes even NAA…

What is the guarantee on? All the ones I have seen are just guaranteed rates and death benefit. They still have the big text on the front page saying when the policy will lapse due to lack of premium payments.

Primerica US policies are still 20yr guaranteed. The response to that is common sense. Say in 25 years there is a major calamity. Enough that all the insurance companies are hurting. Wipes out, or severely reduces the reserves to a point below the required amount.

If a company can’t raise rates to cover the reserve, and can’t take on new clients because they don’t have the reserver, what will the company end up doing? Usually stop accepting applications and eventually die out.

Just because Primerica has the option to raise a rate after the first 20 years, does not mean it will. I have yet to see a life policy from any company raise. But I have heard that some less fortunate companies have done so, but none were major players.

Say I’m a restaurant owner. I reserve the right to not serve anyone for any reason. 99.9% of the time I wont. That .1% is barely worth mentioning. That goes the same for major, respectable life insurance carriers. 99% of the time they wont raise rates. That 1% is far and few between it is barely worth mentioning.

As for rating women lower, well, from what I have been reading of late, women are starting to die just as often as men. It is only when they get older that they live longer, and even then, that is changing.

Let’s through in New York Life and Edward Jones. I still have offers from them as well. And quoting representatives from each of them when they tried recruiting me, “You are too smart to be working for Primerica.”

Term is profitable yes, cash value is more so.

by: Answer This | January 20th, 2009 (9:59 pm)

Richard i’m not trying to convince you or anyone else to leave Primerica. Of course the UL guarantees will guarantee the death benefit and premium for a certain amount of time. That’s why they have a cash value shadow account. It’s designed for long term coverage.

So in your opinion a 30 year policy with a 20 year guarantee is better or just as good as a 30 year policy guaranteed for the full 30 years? Once again i’m not talking about cash value…Why do PFS people always default to cash value? Your really reaching on the subject of women. We all know the mortality tables have been updated and rates are going down with many companies.

In my opinion, when I do my job and keep my clients on track, in 20 years it wont matter because they WILL be debt free and wont need as much.

As for the policy itself, so long as the company is ethical and solvent, it wont matter too much. An ethical company would not raise rates for profits, but to rebuild reserves to stay solvent.

I say we stop this. We will probably end in a stale mate so might as well end it now.

by: Answer This | January 21st, 2009 (9:01 am)

Ethical and solvent. So it’s a good idea to transfer that risk to the client. Don’t forget to consider guarantee associations. This is an example one example of why I left PFS. If i knew that my client could get a product with a better feature and couldn’t get it for them, I was basically selling Primeica products. I was a salesman. It wasn’t about the mission. It was my duty to sell the product. If I offered a client a 30/20 and knew they could get a 30/30 and in many case for less cost, the mission became about sales for the company.

You can justify it anyway you want, but it’s sales. “Prices is only an issue when there’s an absence of value”. or something like that. Cmon. In many cases the first people PFS agents contact are friends and family. MY family, friends and clients get policies fully guaranteed for the length of the term. As for the stale mate, there’s no competition going on here it’s just information. People who read this can make a decision about what’s best for them and theirs. 30/20 or 30/30 guarantee. Behind all the smoke and mirrors it’s sales at PFS and all other companies.. If it wasn’t they wouldn’t track sales and have contest based on production. Recruit to sell.

I wasn’t forgetting about the guarantee associations. If a company can’t raise rates when it needs to, it could go insolvent thus activating it. They typically go insolvent either through unethical behavior (Like AIG’s Parent, Not AIG Life), or a run on the reserves requiring a price increase to stay solvent.

And you are telling me that you would rather have a company that doesn’t have income options if a pandemic happens, than one that could still stay afloat and do what it takes to keep their own policies in force instead of transferring even MORE risk to the client?

No offense, but understanding how the guarantee and legal reserve system works, I would much rather have my company stay solvent and raise rates if it needed to then have one go under.

Besides, you keep missing a point. Just because they can raise rates, does not mean they will. In the last 33 years, Primerica has never raised rates on any existing policy that was not scheduled to do so in the policy. And never by any more than was scheduled. You should know that as well being ex-Primerica yourself.

And I say this again, lets call this a draw and stop. Agree to disagree. We are wasting our time mudslinging. Although I am sure TFB is getting a laugh out of this.

by: Answer This | January 21st, 2009 (11:39 am)

Income options? Raise rates or cut commissions. I’m not mudslinging. It’s just information. Given the choice between a 30/20 or a 30/30 me myself would go for the 30/30. If you feel the 30/20 is best, go for it. If I remember correctly Triple X legislation was enacted in the early 2000′s requiring reserves. When you have one option you service the needs of the company and not the needs of the client. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but it is what it is. Sometimes we have to look beyond the rah, rah and smoke and mirrors. At the end of the day it’s all business. I know the carriers I represent don’t offer trips and cash rewards because they like me. Just like at PFS you will hear of the stud of the moment who just came into the company.

For those following. I’m kind of mixing up the guarantees. Sorry.

30/20= 30 year term plan with premium guaranteed for 20 years.
***After 20 years company has an option to raise rates.

30/30= 30 year term plan with premium guaranteed for the full 30 years.
***rates are guaranteed to stay the same for the full 30 years.

You seem to have missed part of the scenario. Either that or you were fed up and just responded without fully reading. Either way, I’ll restate.

And before I state this again, this came from a Long Term Care salesman, not a Life Insurance salesmen. It still applies because they still work on a reserve system.

This is 22 years in the future. One client has a 30/20, the other a 30/30. A major pandemic. Lets say an asteroid hits killing millions and reserves along with it.

Since the reserves are shot, the companies with a 30/30 must sell assets to rebuild reserves. If unable to do so, they can’t take on more clients. If they can’t take on more clients, they can’t cut commissions because no sale are being made. Thus, the last option is raise rates. But they can’t because it is locked in for another 8 years.
Some time soon they will go out of business because they can’t afford to keep paying claims.

The 30/20 has to do the same thing, but has the option to raise rates to a stated maximum in the policy. At the very least, it will keep them around for a little longer to rebuild those reserves.

Granted this is an extreme example, but lets be honest, that’s about the only way an ethical company would raise rates.

I am quite sure you already know that Primerica has 8x the required minimal for meeting those reserves. Where does your companies stand?

by: Answer This | January 22nd, 2009 (1:39 pm)

Richard i’m independent. I represent many companies. Let’s not get into company bashing. You can spin it anyway you want, but is the consumer better off with a 30/20 or a 30/30? You seem to be defending Primerica. I’m more concerned with what’s in the best interest of the client. The company with the best product for the situation wins. Would your client rather go with a company that has the option to raise rates or with a company that will guarantee the rate for the full term? Side by side, I would advise my client to go with the longer guarantee. Yet that’s just me. You see when I was at Primerica, I represented Primerica. Being independent I can do what’s best for my clients. Even if it’s offering them a graded whole life product because they have major health issues. Some even have a ROP feature.

Just so you know i’m not bashing PFS, I have heard that due to the current economic situation many companies will either raise their term rates or cut the length of their guarantees.

Actually, I wasn’t bashing your companies or any other. I was asking a legitimate question. I know where my company stands on reserves and cash in the bank, I truly wanted to know where your companies reserves stand? Are they dead on with the requirements (50% of face amount) or higher?

So for a client with major medical issues, you would recommend a decreasing term product with a cash account earning about 2 – 4% (less than inflation so still a loss) that may even allow them to have an additional guarantee of 0% return (on growth, premiums are returned tax free) on their money and for the first 2 years may not receive the full benefit (premiums plus interest, typically 8-12%…. like a mutual fund) for which they are typically paying double for? I just want to make sure we are clear and everyone knows what is really being offered. This is my understanding from my own research.

And due to the current economic situation, many companies just might do that. And you know as well as I do, that with how stable Primerica really is, they wont be among them.

I am not so much defending Primerica as clarifying your statements which could lead someone to believe you are implying that it will happen. Not saying you are intending it that way, just that it could be construed as such.

by: Answer This | January 22nd, 2009 (4:45 pm)

Richard. If you have a client you can’t cover does the ratings and reserves mean anything?
I have access to many different companies. I can bring many different options to the table.
You want to attack whole life again. Now if you have a potential client who Primerica Life won’t cover, what do you do? There are some people who have some funds set aside for certain things/situations and they want that money/funds to be there when needed. That’s when a single premium WL is a consideration. The issue here is the markets i’m talking about isn’t within your (PFS) target market. One size doesn’t fit all. There are some people who don’t fit into the standard or better market. That’s when other products come into play and sometimes it’s not always term.

That wasn’t an attack against whole life, that was an explanation of what that particular product is. I’m not dumb enough to think that whole life does not have a place. In fact, when there are no other options, I do recommend people to get the guaranteed whole life until they have the cash set aside to cover it. Making it Single Premium helps a bit as well.

I just try to find other options before resorting to it.

You’re right, one size doesn’t fit all. And Primerica never was (at least from my memory and experience) a one size fits all company. At the very least, it hasn’t been for at least the last 10 years. Most agents I talk with assume that since Primerica only has one term product that it is a “one size fits all” mentality without knowing how that particular product works. But then again, most agents I deal with are about the sales and their respective commissions, and not the products or the client.

Not saying you are, just most agents I deal with are.

And although ratings and reserves don’t mean anything to those few that Primerica does not cover, what about the other 90+% (want to make sure I account for those terminally ill and over 70)? I still am curious to know about your companies. Or are you not privy to that information?

by: Answer This | January 24th, 2009 (2:04 pm)

If you need an answer about the companies I have access to go to http://www.term4sale and pick a company that allows independents to offer their products. How can PFS be about the client? PFS is about selling PFS products period. If PFS found out you as an agent told a client that they would be better off with another carrier, how long would they keep you around? How long would your RVP keep you around? You see one day I had to do the mirror test. I was all about the PFS mission. I had to look myself in the mirror and ask myself where was my committment. To my family, friends, and clients, or to PFS and my RVP? PFS and my RVP came out last.

As for clients, I think people should shop or have the ability to consider different programs. As for the business opportunity just not having to be under a noncompete and not having a requirement to give up legs are two major considerations if looking at different opportunities. Yet as I have lived and still see to this day, people can justify most anything. A partial guarantee is better than a full guarantee?? That says quite a bit.
I will never allow another company/organization to have my mind again. We can go back and forth all day, but when speaking to the person in the mirror it all will come back to facts and not hype or rah, rah.

Since you have avoided the question 3 times, I will take that as an “I Don’t Know Or Care” answer. That site only lists the ratings from what I saw, not the actual data.

All companies are about selling their products. I’ve stated that before. As a whole, PFS does not do predatory lending, use misleading sales tactics, or spread misinformation about other companies. Some agents individually may, that is the same for any company.

PFS is the only company I know of that works to get people OUT OF life insurance. I’m sorry, but if you have money to burry you and enough funds to retire AND leave it to the next generation, YOU DON”T NEED LIFE INSURANCE.

You complain that giving up a leg is a bad thing? You have never worked in a management position over a new location or area. That is clear. If you had, you would understand that in order to get that promotion to a manager, you usually have to give up the area you helped build. Why is it that Insurance is the only industry that complains about it when it happens in many others?

I don’t go and recommend another companies product. If my clients have a better policy than what I can offer, I wont replace it. If they have serious medical conditions that causes me to not be able to insure them, I suggest they make those phone calls and find some coverage while I work with them to build them an estate to pass on. I don’t recommend the company, just that they make calls.

I can care less about the non compete. I consider the replacement system great. But then again, I’ve been management and a business owner for so long it’s second nature. I expect it and know what comes out of it.

I never said a partial guarantee is better, but you must also consider the company behind the guarantee. Some companies are just that good they don’t need it. Others have such bad habits that they would lose even more business if they didn’t.

I’ve looked in the mirror and passed with flying colors. I’ve looked at the facts. Every time I get to thinking about selling cash value, I feel the urge to throw up. Not because I was taught that it was bad, but because I have read the policies and KNOW they are bad.

Another agent in our office just picked up a policy from a client being underwritten by State Farm. 2 policies. Both 15-pay (15 years of payments) $20k Face Amount Policies. Total that should be paid over 15 years = $150k combined. I already see an issue there. Second, the cash value at 15 years = $5k COMBINED between both policies. Yet you tell me that in some cases that is BETTER?

In this case, the parents are better NOT getting policies and putting the money under a mattress. That cash value was supposed to cover school expenses. Thank god Primerica got to them. If Primerica hadn’t, there kids probably wouldn’t be able to go to school.

by: Answer This | January 25th, 2009 (1:09 am)

Primerica didn’t get to the potential client the agent did. As always default to cash value.
As you say “PFS is the only company I know of that works to get people OUT OF life insurance.” Not true…As for the reserves, it’s not that I don’t care, like I said you just deal with one company, I have access to many. So it’s not really an issue.

You’re right. It was the agent, A Primerica Agent that got to her. PFS IS the only company I KNOW that works to get people out of life insurance, not ensure they stay in it.

You say it’s not an issue to know the company(ies) you represent. How would your clients feel about that?

I’m sorry, I personally prefer knowing how the companies are doing and I WILL ask salesmen details about the company. If they don’t know the answer, they are wasting my time since they are just trying to sell me something from some company.

And I didn’t say you don’t care, I said I’m taking it as such since you have refused to answer the question.

Out of curiosity, I would like to know how many agents you know, that have not worked at Primerica, teach their clients how the policies really work. I’ve met many agents from competitors, I’ve found less than 1% that actually take the time to explain, in simple terms, how the policies work. Many seem to think that the common man is just too dumb to understand them.

I request a poll TFB. How many of your readers would like to deal with an agent that will explain, in english, how there policy works and illustrate it. Would they deal with an agent that wasn’t kept informed of the financial strength of those companies (Maybe not dollar amounts but at least % of reserves to ensure claims paying). Would like to know what the agent would make on a particular sale and why they are recommending it? etc.

Im curious. If these things don’t matter as Answer This suggests, I’m quite sure your educated readers would favor his(her?) way of thinking.

by: Answer This | January 25th, 2009 (12:13 pm)

I never said it mattered. my point is I represent many different carriers. You as an agent can get the information you wish. Just pick one of the companies. You know where to look. We are not in a competition for any business. How many life carriers do you represent? You just need to keep track of one company, me I have to keep up with different companies and the different features of their programs. You can request all the polls you want, but side by side, across the kitchen table I can guarantee you would lose. Be it business or for the recruit. So just before you imply it, no I don’t push cash value.

Why is it important what an agent makes? Would you inform a client that they can get the same coverage you offer from another carrier for less premium? If not why would you bring up commission? As for the issue of reserves as I said, you deal with one company. I can represent many others. So is it really an issue to go over that when you only have one point of reference. In my opinion a 30/30 is better than a 30/20.. Not being under a noncompente is better then being under a noncompete. Not having to give up a leg is better than having to give one up. Not having a requirement to recruit to advance in commission is better than having to recruit to advance. Having access to many different carriers is better than just one. Having ownership from day one is better than having requirement for ownership. Having the freedom to have other outside business is better than having restrictions. If you don’t agree with me that’s ok. Yes I do have carriers that have cash value products, and I also have carriers that have term products.
I’m in business for myself, but not by myself. I decide how I want to run my business and which product I wish to offer.

You can imply anything you wish, but the bottom line is, you have limitations on your business decisions. If that’s ok with you, I wish you the best. As the PFS agent you spoke of is an independent contractor and not an employee of Primerica Life, why
didn’t he shop coverage for the client? If he was looking out for the clients best interest he would have come to the table with different offers. So who is he representing, the client or Primerica?

There’s a huge difference between being inside and outside Primerica. my pool would be would readers do what’s in their best interest or what’s in the best interest of the insurance carrier. I can place many different proposals in front of a client and let them decide. I can live with that, and yes people do give me referrals.

by: Answer This | January 25th, 2009 (12:58 pm)

Richard I have to thank you. You have given me the fire to reach out to other PFS agents. My crusade has begun. See you across the kitchen table. It’s going to be term vs term and contract vs contract..

by: Answer This | January 25th, 2009 (1:00 pm)

Richard I have to thank you. You have given me the fire to reach out to other PFS agents. My crusade has begun. See you across the kitchen table.

Haha… this has been great. But you guys can quit argueing. I have decided not to go with Primerica as I am looking forward to being independent and having several carrier to offer products to my clients from. Not to mention 100-110% commision from day one is a hell of a lot better than 25% commission without the ability to get to a higher commision without recruiting. I now see the reason by Primerica pushes so hard that you “can start part time” ….because no one is going to be making a living at 25% commission on selling term products. I’m sorry but when weighing out the options of being captive, only having 1 carrier to offer my clients whether I know if they can get CHEAPER AND BETTER coverage elsewhere, lower commisions, and not having the ability to offer permanant insurance to customers who need it just doesn’t sound like the route for me. I agree with Answer This that why give up a leg if you don’t have to… and that is exactly what you are doing with Primerica. Not to mention, as independent…. I don’t have to pay any $25 a month like Primerica charges….. infact, overall my only cost to be independent is much cheaper than being with Primerica…All in all, when I weighed the options, Primerica had NO benefit to me and NO benefit to my clients.

Chris, Primerica DOES offer permanent insurance. It’s called Term to 100.

Cheaper does NOT mean better. It’s bad business to go with the cheapest. I’d rather pay for inexpensive quality than cheap paper. I’ve seen too many cheap term policies which are marketed as being better than Primerica, that after the term either jumped to 10x the premium for half the coverage (for permanent cash SURRENDER value) or just dropped period.

You do realize that the $25/mo covered more than just access to the intranet site right? I don’t have to pay E&O (Primerica Pays It), independent’s do. I don’t have office expenses. Independent’s do. I, essentially, get my core licenses paid for. Independents usually have to pay for them. That, in and of itself, just saved over $1200 of startup costs. We both have advertising expenses. The only time I have seen one of your carriers pay for E&O, is AFTER you have met a quota with them.

I’m not going to try to change your mind, I never was. But if commissions was that big of a deal, you never should have looked at Primerica. We’ve never been about pay, always the client. Anyone who knows how, and the reason, we started would know that.

I’ll say it again, insurance is the ONLY industry I know of that people complain about giving up someone they trained. It is SOP in all other industries. At the very least, in the ones I have worked in. Heck, in real estate, when an agent becomes a broker, they give up ALL their team. Yet the brokers are GLAD they did because it gave them so much MORE opportunity.

And from what you 2 have said, you are looking at everything, in my opinion, as a salesmen would. Nothing wrong with that. I, and many of the leaders in Primerica, look at it as a businessman would. Salesmen look at the now, businessmen look at longevity and what will make them last. When salesmen look at Primerica, they see “better opportunities to make money” else where. When a businessmen looks at Primerica, they see a “real opportunity to do a great service and help”. A salesmen will look at a product and not really pay much attention to how it works. A businessmen will know the ins and outs of their products before offering them. Being captive, as many claim, is not a crutch. Giving up a leg is not a bad thing. Having a constant business expense is better than a variable one.

You guys keep doing what you are doing. I’ll try not to laugh when I replace your policies.

I really have to say thank you. My drive was already at 10 when this started. Answer This, you just pushed it passed it’s limit to 15.

End of line.

by: Answer This | January 26th, 2009 (12:29 am)

Term to 100. Why is it needed to go to 100 when with the guidance of a PFS rep. the client should be financially independent at end of term per your company. Not to mention the rates to go to 100. If a person needs to go that long wouldn’t be in their advantage to lock in a face amount and premium? Oh no, that would be coverting to a perm. plan.

Not all carriers require E/O to be appointed. As for Primerica provided E/O, who do you think they are looking out for? It’s CYA. Ask around. Not all carriers charge for brochures or software which PFS does or at least did. There are many independents who don’t have office requirements per which organization they belong to or if they just have a license and contract with a carrier directly. As for PFS not having sales people why do they keep track of production and have production requirements for advancement? Not to mention throw around the big money earners? Yes it’s about sales. If you don’t see it they do. Primerica is in this to make money.

Richard good luck replacing an independents term plan. Richard at the core you seem like a good guy, but beyond anything I may have typed water down the kool-aid a bit and consider the market place and the contract. Your an independent contractor with PFS, not an employee. They have the separation per contract, but you and others have the marriage by hype. It is what it is. A business person will sit down and compare deals and then make a decision on how the deal works. In a perfect world it should be fair and equitable for both parties. Well read your agent agreement and and tell yourself it’s fair. Your an independent contractor. You recruit, train and sell. They own your efforts for a period of time if you leave if you didn’t reach a certain level. Limitations on commissions at certain levels. No renewals paid under RVP. (LTC and PLPP. At one time it may have changed) etc..etc..etc..Did I forget to mention that most agents ar part-time? Now most people who do something part-time are looking to make extra income. Ok selling term with a side fund isn’t too complicated and yes people can make a pretty good income doing it, but what if they have a client who is also looking for critical illiness, disability, or maybe health insurance? That may be an opportunity to expand their income, but with PFS, nooooooooooo they can only market the products they approve, hench the company provided E/O.. Primeica is the parent company. To expand you have to ask the parent. May I please consider the market potential of selling a Fixed Indexed Annuity or a senior settlement? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Did I mention most people consider PFS as a side gig to earn some extra income? It is what it is. Side by side you can’t win. Educate the client or potential recruit and let them choose what’s best for them. Facts not hype……Like Donald Trump says, don’t believe anyone. Read the contract.

For those who have kept track of this. Don’t fall for the hype of any company, they all do it to an extent. If your an independent contractor you have to do what’s in your and your clients best interest. It’s not all about money, but it’s important. No one is going to work for free. The company sure isn’t going to, so why should the agent think/project they should? It’s about coming to a fair agreement. 25% whew..You have to be a salesman to sell that. LOL..Replace my programs, yea right. I can replace your program (If it’s in the clients best interest) and then bring your down-line over to my team. LOL,,LMAO…
It sounds good on a message board, but we both know you just need to get there first and then hope the client doesn’t do a google search on PFS and bring in an independent to shop their coverage.

You see it’s not “cash value agents” who are telling the ins and outs of PFS, it’s former PFS agent like myself who are just sharing information. Pople can do their own research by contacting PFS or just reading the agent agreement. It’s not about if PFS is some scam or not. I don’t think and won’t say they are a scam, but i think a person can do better for themself and their clients outside of PFS.

See you across the kitchen table…Just the facts,,,Just the facts..

so you are former PFS agent…if you totally know the ins of primerica, you should have been milllionaires by now. so why people should listen to a drop-off.

Not everyone can succeed in primerica. it is the same as other business. It requires lots committment, hard work and self-development. Primerica provides the best and equal system to fulfill peoples (at least thousandsof people) business dreams. It works. proved by history, by other successful primerica leads own experiences.

Anyone out there considering primerica, just go there, give it a try. it will take 3 months to know a company, whether good or bad. so go to every training meetings in 3 months. Being commited. Then you can decide whether Primerica is your thing. it is all about matching. Nothing good or bad, not everyone suitable to be a business owner.

sunnyt888,

Primerica is not for everyone. There are plenty of RVPs and above that are content just making $50 – $100k/year. There are part timers that are content just making an extra $2k – $4k/mo. There are even some that just work the holidays for extra Christmas money.

To fully judge any financial services company, it would take filing a claim before you realize truly how good or bad it is, not 3 months. That is just the nature of the industry.

And speaking of the industry, it’s depressing to think that it took 5 years, multiple class action lawsuits, and government intervention to get several insurance companies to pay the death claims from 9/11. Primerica was one of the few, if not the only one, that paid all legitimate death claims the first 2 weeks.

Yeah, that is what all people out there should comparing about. Will the insurance company really insure you for what you paid for.

by: Answer This | February 3rd, 2009 (8:07 pm)

Sunyt I don’t have a problem with the Primerica system. When you think about it, it’s genius. My issue is the smoke and mirrors about helping people when it’s all about sales. That’s the bottom line. everything they do in my opinion is leveraged toward the company. As it’s a business agreement between Primerica and the agents I can see why they protect their own interest. 3 month’s is not enough time to fully understand their concept to even compare it to anyone or anything. How many people fully read their agents agreement? How many people know what to look for and what not to look for in the agreement?

Agents are independent contractors with minimum ties to PFS and will defend them with to no ends. If PFS is so great why is it no one wants to buy them? If they do there’s a remote chance PFS could be shut down. Read the third paragraph.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adyyuSdS_txE&refer=home

Any reasonable business person would be consider other options, but not some of the posters to message boards. Why is that? The answer is they have your mind. No I don’t blame PFS. They have everything in writing and they don’t hide anything as far as the contract goes. Now if independent contractors wish to follow a corp. blindly that’s up to them…

Just to let you know if I wanted to come back to PFS I could and I could be one if no the number one producer, because I fully understand the system. The key to the system is not to think about anything except recruiting. Just keep people coming and going. Who cares if your the cheapest.? Who cares about giving up legs? Who cares if people quit? Who care if people pass or fail their test. Just keep recruiting and going to see their warm market. Recruiting =Sales. If you don’t believe me ask your RVP, SNSD. NSD or whomever any question and they will tell to recruit……….

It’s not about helping families. If it were the product line wouldn’t be so restrictive. keep it simple so the masses can do the business and keep it simple so the company doesn’t have to deal with major issue with the agents..So yes I understand the game. I just didn’t want to be a pawn anymore…

As for the 9/11 payouts I can’t comment, because I don’t have the information, but I can’t believe PFS was the only company that paid out within normal time frames or even if the claim is true..I have heard some good hype in my days at PFS…

To build a business in Primerica, it is about recruiting. Like any good business, you want distribution outlets. In retail, they are called stores. In direct sells, they are called recruits.

There are 2 reasons I can think of why a sale hasn’t happened yet.

1) Companies don’t have the cash to put up the 7 – 10 billion it would cost.
2) They want to buy the book of business and kill the sales force.

Last I checked the contracts, no sale can be made of the company unless PFS, Citi, and the Buyer all agree to the terms.

As for 9/11, some companies refused to pay citing either the Act of War clause, Suicide clause (for those that jumped instead of burnt to death), or no body was found. The federal class action lawsuit was the only way they paid out the claims.

PFS was one of very few, if not the only one, that paid out ALL legitimate claims immediately.

As for the Act of War Clause, there are a few much older PFS policies that do have that, however, that clause is being waived if it ever comes up.

by: Independent | February 15th, 2009 (12:29 am)

Hey Chris,

I am glad that you have found a field that has truly sparked an interest for you. The financial services industry is a tramendous field where you have an opportunity to truly impact people’s live in a positive way and make a great living.

I can appreciate your desire to investigate your options. To be honest I did not take the time to read every response on this blog, so forgive me if this post seems entirely random.

Having been a rep with Primerica for over a year I am intimately aware of the company’s products, business structure and compensation and although there are a lot of positives about Primerica, and the company definitely served a great purpose in the popularization of BTID, which, by and large is the right financial concept for most Americans, I believe that there is at least one other opportunity, which affords you all of the same positives of Primerica, but that offers a better range of financial products, has an even better business structure and has a better compensation plan. It is an opportunity to work part-time as an independent agent and then work yourself into a full time position.

If you would like to know more Chris let me know. You can contact me via e-mail at jpsanders@hotmail.com.

Take care Chris

you don,t know what your talking about. primerica was able to get me out of debt and put more money into my savings and my invetsments and get my morgage payed off 23 years before my bank was going to and saving me 250.000 i would have to pay that bank .So yes primerica helps families get out of debt and be able to retire .Unlike other financial companies . That wanted to take my money for them selfs.You sound like your uneducated and need there help .You don,t have a clue.

AMEN John!!!

Speaking from your personal experience with Primerica!
Good Luck and all the success in your family’s future!

On the contrary , you dont see any clients on this blog from the other companies or carriers that are praising them on how their where help and how they change their lives..just like John “Primerica client” did!!!

I betcha only now after i mentions this will u see sum people post sum of their thank full comments about who their W/L or U/L agent change their live….PLEASE!!!! Give me a break!…I curious to see it they do or don’t!

Cheers!

Does Primerica let you work for other companies since you are an IGA? Do you get renewals and if not why? I am looking and am curious before I explore to deep.

It depends on what country you are in and what the other jobs are. I believe Canada still has the ‘no part time if you have full time’ rule (put in place by Primerica’s competition to prevent Primerica from entering). If your other job is working for another financial institution, there are restrictions applied.

As for renewals, it depends on the product and sales designation. I don’t know reasons why and can only speculate that it is related to lowering costs and keeping you doing what is right instead of building up a book of business and then ‘rerireing’. I have seen and heard of too many agents that would keep one set of books and move between companies until the renewals ran out and then moved their clients to new products to keep it going.

When doing your research, look at what you can do for the client, not what you get paid. If you do what is right long enough,you will be paid much more than what was stated.

by: the better term guy | May 4th, 2009 (5:08 pm)

TERM GUY just a note for you listed below is the rates that you quoted.

Fact: Male, age 40, $500,000 of 20 year term, regular health

RBC: $99.90 per month
AXA: $101.25
Equitable: $102.15
AIG: 102.60
Canada Life: 102.60
Western: 105.37
Manulife: 106.25
and on and on for another dozen or so companies all cheaper than Primerica until we see:
Primerica $118.75

It’s like they’re pricing it to be dead last.

NOT true on our rate. I ran a quote and the price for Male, age 40, $500,000 of 20 year term, regular health. the price was NOT 118.75 it was 84.55 putting us in the best price list. our best rate for great health is 46.13.

If you want to try and blast us get your facts in line with the truth sir. The price of 118 is for a 45 year old not a 40 year old with us.

OK now that you know our rate is better than yours will you refer you clients to me? or just sell the over priced rates that you quoted.

by: Mark C. | May 5th, 2009 (2:10 pm)

Ok Term Guy,

I’m curious to know the details of your term…what are the riders, or benefits included with your terms your quoting…each term though the base is a term insurance dont have all the same benefits and stiputalions in the contract..do they have any EXCLUSIONS..such as war acts… where most companies end up not paying their clients…how about giving a longer term like 30 or 35 years..so that can have a longer protection insteard of renewaing another 10 years…while their assets are still growing…what would be your quotes on those kind of term 30 or 35 years…

Please let me know so that we can get a comparison view of what you are saying…

Seeya

Isee no responses from TG..as I expected! Cannot compare dude!

LOL!

by: Answer This | May 21st, 2009 (7:14 pm)

Mark C.. As you know it was rported the PFS sales force may be up for sale, and the life business may be left behind. Which means whomever buys the sales force would provide their life Plan to be marketed by the sales force. So if you project that your term product is superior than what’s available on the market means for quality of business you would be taking a step down in the product you will have to market.

So i ask. Why is is ok for PFS to consider the sale of other another carriers products and not you? If they are willing to abandon their Term for another what does that say? They have the option of taking their sales force and just going elsewhere, why is that bad for you? You see PFS is doing what we as independents can do. They are just doing on a much larger scale. Why is it good for them and not for you? If my current marketing organization has some material changes I don’t like, I can do what PFS is doing. That’s the power of ownership.

If you would lik to see some products you can go here.
http://www.hbwinc.com/business_pipeline/life_product_details.shtml

Of course there are many other carriers to consider because agents have the ability to go outside if they so choose and it benefits their client.. Now if you can please post the Primerica Life product. If you can’t, why? Let’s see the specifics. Facts…Not hype..

***If anyone is using firefox, use internet explorer to open the link.

by: Answer This | May 23rd, 2009 (10:46 pm)

I hear crickets.. Forget the comparisons, let’s just see the product specifics. Notice I said see, not hear/hype?

Hey AT I was talking to Term Guy or are you one and the same? Anywas fyi PFS will not take any offers that will undermind what they stood for for the last 32 years man! So that I know fosure dey wont sell out okay! Why dont you you let Term guy answer my question because he is the one who gave the original quote of insurance! When I get an answer I will quote back!

Cheers!

Answer this I hear frogs and a wolf howling in the distance…wait can you hear that!

Enjoy your camping experience! I guess you love nature sounds..so enjoy ok!

by: Answer This | May 25th, 2009 (10:59 pm)

Public forum……You say ” Anyways fyi PFS will not take any offers that will undermind what they stood for for the last 32 years man!” stood for for the last 32 years? MET Life, Travelers… I guess PFS would NEVER do business with any company that would sell cash value…What’s the big deal? You asked for some policy specifics..Not speculation or hype..So post the PFS policy specs.

For PFS and Citgroup this is all about money. If you read Sandy Weill’s book the only reason they took on PFS was for distribution. That’s it. Now it’s rumored that the distribution leg is on the block again? So the question still stands. What will you guys do if you are given a policy that has a perm. conversion? Primerica is going to do what’s best for Primerica. That’s the cold world of business. Considering John Addison and Harland Stoncipher are buddies I wouldn’t surprised to see a deal between PFS and PPL… It’s not like PFS really cares about the Life side if they are willing to let it stay at Citi and just move the sales force… If you want to see quotes, go to http://www.term4sale.com

No i’m not the “Term Guy”..Why would it matter anyway. Anyone can use any name..

by: MarK C. | May 27th, 2009 (1:58 pm)

You know what, whatever your saying your just trying to make a big deal about..cuz u cant wait to see PFS fail since we’re doing wats right for our clients and educating them and making a BIG difference in their lives. What you are suggesting is that after 32 years of preaching and fighting for BTID John will just throw it all out the door and accept perm..what a joke man..just keep dreaming! Why are your stressing anyway you dont work for the company I do so I have my options and im not sweating it! So move on already about your senseless topic..OOOO what if PFS gets sold or loose it sales forces…You should be contacting your friends that you know who work for PFS and try to preach your doom & gloom to them and see what they will tell you! I will answer Term guy when gives me his quotes and I will quote u after ok!

Cheers!

by: Answer This | May 27th, 2009 (3:35 pm)

Mark, Mark calm down. LOL,,I don’t want to see PFS fail. They don’t matter. I can beat their program all day everyday. You say you are committed to PFS because they saved you. well what if another company or organization can take you to a higher level? Yes I know it won’t happen..(Hey Kool-Aid)

As for what John will do no one knows but John. Who would have thought that PFS would partner with MET or Travelers back in the day. Travelers did sell cash value didn’t they? Back in the day when ALW had 200,000 agents strong there wasn’t much competition for what they were doing. Today it’s it’s a whole different ball game. it’s been reported PFS has been on the block with no takers. So what is suggested? Leave the block of business and sell the sales force. Who is to say the sales force will be given any financial products? It could be vitamins, who knows?

You ask why am I sweating all this? It’s all information. It’s not just about you or other PFS agents. If PFS is for you great. take care of your clients, but potential recruits should hear another side to the PFS experience. If anything I say is a lie feel free to call me out and correct me. You are not a Primeica employee. John has to do what’s in the best interest of the company. That’s the bottom line. he is not there to please you or any of the agents. That’s why you are independent contractors. Ask your RVP what happens to your clients if the sales force is sold but not the book of business? Sure your selling your clients products, but who is really benefiting from your efforts. If they sell the book of business you lose the clients. If they sell the sales force who knows what happens from there. Oh yes I forgot the agents get daily updates which is great because they are independent contractors building a business within a business.

You can’t argue logic. LOL..My PFS friends have already contacted ME. I tell them to do what’s best for them and theirs. Get this once they come over I will probably offer them an exact or higher commission level than they currently have. You see I can hire at different levels per amount of experience. Why would someone with experience start at the bottom level? It’s just not right. You see we do what’s right all the time. Heyyyyyyy KOOOOOL-AIDDDDDDDDD

See you at the top. Hmmm if the company is on the sales block, where is the top? is there a Top? Hmmmmm

by: Richard | May 27th, 2009 (4:27 pm)

AT, how many times do I have to tell you this. For ANYTHING to happen to Primerica, Primerica has to agree with it. Just because Citi is asking for bids for just the marketing arm, does not mean anything will happen.

As for doing business with Travelers and MetLife. You ever think that maybe the business was done with the INVESTMENT arms and not the INSURANCE arms. LEGALLY separate entities? Wait, thats business. I forgot. You’re a mere salesmen and wouldn’t understand corporate structure.

You say it’s not right for someone to start at the bottom? I disagree. The only way for someone to respect a company and those in it IS to start at the bottom and EARN your way up. But in a gimme society, giving things for nothing is the cheap way out to recruit someone.

30 years ago, there were over 2k insurance companies. Now, about 1200. Mostly due to Primerica doing a better job. In another 30 years, that should be down to about 600. Again, thanks to Primerica (or what ever it ends up being called). Primerica as a whole still does what is right. And will continue to do so.

by: Answer This | May 28th, 2009 (11:44 am)

The point is PFS has done business with companies that have cash value products. Then you ask “You ever think that maybe the business was done with the INVESTMENT arms and not the INSURANCE arms. LEGALLY separate entities?” Yet you don’t consider that other agents or organization can market other companies term products without marketing their cash value products, or having a commitment to the BTID concept.

As for people starting at the bottom the the reasoning around that is due to the lack of experience. That’s why they call it field training at that level. Now if you bring in an EXPERIENCED agent why would they start at the lower commission levels? They know how to sell and close. They know basically how to do the paperwork and from what I hear you guys use the palm thing. It’s not rocket science. By the way did you ever ask your RVP if they had the option of bringing in someone at a higher commission level? i do at one time it was allowed and it was up tot he RVP when they wanted to promote someone to RVP. The guidelines were just that, guidelines. Ask around. I still don’t understand what the definition of “doing what’s right” is.. Then from whose perspective? Today people have access to information. It’s not just about hype and kool-aid anymore. PFS isn’t ALW and it’s 2009 not 1979..

Hey AT man Im glad I got to know..guess what I even know your favorite dring…Kool Aid..wow I guess you drank tons of that juice when you where a kid..good for your its its in your blood! Listen buddy I dont need to calm down because im not angry or mad or over agitated..im just speaking my mind. Primerica will always do what is right everytime 100% of the time and if you think thats cool aid..buddy my advice..you need to stay away from it its giving you dillusions okay..Where on Premier Business magazine and on Success from Home Magazine for a reason and one reason only..WE ARE AN AMAZING COMPANY AND OPPORTUNITY! Those are 3rd party magazines to name a few…are theire any for HBW…hmmm so far nill! So unless the people your trying to recruit want to be a salesman then they will go to you…BUT if their lookin and wanting to be BUSINESS OWNERS then they will come to PRIMERICA..because that is what we sell..FRANCHISE NOT french fries…just like McDees!

Switch your cool aid and come to the 21st century…try ICE Caps @ timmys!

Cheers LOL!

by: Answer This | June 28th, 2009 (11:11 pm)

How did I miss this one? Mark C. please don’t compare HBW with Primerica. The third party is the clients and the opportunity for the agents. So you talk about the 21st Century? Would you like to compare agents websites? How about being captive vs being independent? We are both independent contractors. We don’t have to worry about roll backs. We offer no full-time requirements. Agents have the option of series 6,63 and 65.. We have access to brokerages for LTC, Fixed/Indexed Annuities, Disability…Of course we have the ability to market to Wealthy Clients if we so choose. You see carriers and brokerage companies do want to help.

Sure go ahead and sell a Francise. HBW offers a business. Ownership from day one. Agents can leave and take all of their business and downline with them if they so choose. they have the freedom to market other products. Some people do want to offer Health Insurance, or have products for the senior market. You see it’s about the freedom to build a business as we so choose. You on the other hand can only do what PFS ALLOWS you to do.

Captivity is the old days.. Independence is 21st century. Why is it there is no concrete information on the company web site? Where is the agent agreement. What about the compensation? What about Product Information?

Let’s compare:

Primerica: http://www.primerica.com/public/

HBW: http://www.hbwinc.com/

Now let’s take a look at agents web sites.

Primerica Agent Web Site: ( Cost Unknown)

http://www.primerica.com/PrimericaRep?rep=marcstaten&pageName=about

HBW Agents Web Site: ($50.00 a month but a basic complimentary web site is available for all HBW agents)

http://rex.hbwinfo.com/

So apples to apples. Across the kitchen table. For a client or recruit who would you think would win. Don’t forget to consider this. Potential clients can run quotes on our sites which will show many different carriers. How would you stack up against that one? Of course your going to say from a business perspective PFS is miles ahead.. These are facts. Not hype. You see your concerned with defending Primerica. Me i’m concerend with what’s in the best interest of the client and/or the recruit..HBW has a better product and opportunity.. Let the masses decide..See you at the top.

Yes, Mark C., Don’t compare HBW to Primerica. HBW is just another cookie cutter agency with average products and nothing special.

AT, I don’t know about you, but I take my competitors quotes WITH ME to my clients house. They know there are cheaper options. I also EXPLAIN how the policies work and let them decide. 100 times out of 100, they choose me.

But wait, other companies have better products right? Well, if they really have better products then that should not happen.

There is a reason Primerica continues to expand exponentially while traditional agencies such as HBW and WFG don’t.

And just because you are an ex-Primerica rep, does not mean you understand Primerica. I’ve said it before, I left, researched other companies and products, and came BACK to Primerica because there was no better option long term OR for my clients.

You keep doing what you do, I’ll keep cleaning up the shit you keep dishing out.

by: Answer This | June 29th, 2009 (7:04 pm)

Richard Primerica is the right place for you. As for policy price the potential clients can look over which product they wish to consider and WE together can find the product that is a good fit. Do you understand the difference between being underwritten as an individual compared to unisex rates? Where can a client see your carrier product details?
http://nettrac.ipipeline.com/start.asp?cin=1612&npt=14

As for understanding Primerica, I understand the difference between being captive and Independent. I understand the limitations of being under a noncompete and not being under one. I understand having the ability to run MY business as I see fit. I understand some people just may not wish to do the business on a Full-time basis. there are some people who like their careers/jobs.

As for the growth. It’s happening but you just don’t want to see it. Just let me say this one more time. No one is trying to recruit you or Mark C. or anyone. Which also brings up another question. As we know PFS has a possibility of being wound down. How can you express to people that they are growing? Currently as an agent you don’t know what decisions are being made behind closed doors.

I was once with Primeica and I researched other companies and products and got out of Primeica. I did what was best for me. Get this. If i wanted to go back to PFS I could and I could bring my team with me and of course I wouldn’t start at the bottom level. Now if you left PFS what could you take with you? Here’s another tib bit. if i did go back to PFS and I brought my team, consider this. Primerica would gain ownership of my team once I signed the contract. Who would that benefit? So as you see there’s more to all this than just the rah, rah, stuff. There’s a business side to consider..

I do understand the difference between underwriting methods. I also ask how the client feels about companies that publicly discriminate against men. It’s fact. Most unisex policies also discount higher based on total coverage amount.

I bring my rate book with me and bring it out every time I meet with a client. Along with quotes from competitors, what information I have on their products and knowledge of their products.

Again, they choose me over them even with those facts of a cheeper policy out there.

BTW, go read the ABC’s of Making Money. I’m willing to bet HBW asked them for a recommendation after it was first published in 2003.

by: Answer This | June 29th, 2009 (10:37 pm)

LOL..What does PFS do that HBW can’t do? Now as far as you so called info. On other carriers have you ever had a agent confrontation with an agent offering other term products? Considering your the only agent there you SELL your program. Just because a book recommends PFS ( I never read the book) doesn’t mean anything. You guys will throw out Suzy Orman or Dave Ramsey and they recommend that people shop for coverage. You have one product. You say commissions are not important, but then you will say PFS has a better compensation program. Please get your arguments straight..

AT, I have had several with other agents offering Term products. Once I take what they are offering and break it down, the CLIENT kicks the other agent out. I don’t sell my program, I provide a true side by side and let the client tell me what they want. THEY decide what is best for them, not me.

The reason I brought that book up was not only because it recommends PFS as a business opp, but that after their initial publishing in ’03, they have had 100′s if not 1000′s of companies also submit for review. Initially, PFS was the ONLY company they recommended. Now, it’s PFS and YTB. Part of the requirements was a product not easily copied with something in real need.

HBW has no unique product or opportunity. HBW is just another agency. PFS is not.

I throw out both of them because the logic is sound. I do suggest people shop for coverage (hence why I also bring quotes with me), I also suggest they read what they are getting. You shop on price, you lose. You shop on QUALITY, you win.

You keep doing what you think is right, I’ll keep doing what IS right.

by: Answer this | July 12th, 2009 (2:55 pm)

YTB? You have got to be kidding. What product does PFS have that isn’t easily copied? LOL. Yes HBW is a financial services marketing company. Primerica Financial services is a financial services marketing company. They both market financial products. Where exactly do you get your quotes? What you tink is right is what PFS TELLS you waht is right. Me myself and my client decdie what is in their best interest. You see companies compete for their business.

I have to agree with YTB. $500 startup plus $50/mo. Then again, talking about travel is easier than fixing finances.

Easily copied? Are you serious? I’ve yet to even hear of a company that comes close to the life insurance PFS offers, the VA, even the LTC products. Then again, no other company really competes with Genworth. Comparing apples to apples, no one beats them.

Where do I get my quotes? Same place your clients would. Online. I even pull the policy details. If I can arrange it, I try to get the policy details from the insurance commissioner to do a fair comparison. Thus far, many have beaten on price, none of beaten on features.

I don’t just compete for my business, I protect my clients from making financial mistakes (as best I can). If I don’t have it, I find it for them. I have even had them be approached by agents from other companies, once I explained what they were getting (and the other agent CONFIRMED IT), they stayed.

You keep doing what you do, and we will keep cleaning up the mess you leave behind. Eventually, your companies WILL be shut down.

I am not an expert on finances. I do have a B.S. with major in finance.
I also have read a lot and taught a little about handling money, and buying insurance. I am convinced that buying term life and investing the difference is the best idea. However, personal feelings of security do (and probably should) play a part in determining what type of insurance policy to buy. In other words, term may not be the best for EVERYONE.

I have seen Primerica’s presentation and am convinced that there program can be helpful. They not only sell insurance, but help clients get out of debt. Their program may not be the best.

If any of you want to improve your financial standing, consider a financial counselor. Dave Ramsey is a great one. Read one of his books. The latest is “Total Money Makeover”, and is available in bookstores or on his website (daveramsey.com).

Kenneth,

Did you know that Dave Ramsey learned it from being a PFS agent? His radio show started after he joined with Primerica. He and a guy named Roy Matlock Jr. were a great team. They decided that doing the radio show would help get the message across that much faster and started many of the programs Dave sells today.

The Travelers Group then merged with CitiBank and formed CitiGroup. When that happened, the Citi Lawyers told Dave and Roy they had to choose because they didn’t want to be sued if they ever gave “bad” advice. Roy stayed in, Dave didn’t. Dave isn’t allowed to mention it at this time due to part of the separation. The lawyers insisted they leave it out of his history.

However, I would advise against paying for a financial advisor of any kind. The information is available for free, and if you’re needing help, that’s one less bill to pay for.

Thank you for that history lesson. I did not know that. I agree that there is a lot of great free advice. Sometimes, though, people need someone to sit down with them and show them what to do and how to do it. On the other hand, one needs to be careful about who they go to. Again, I would consider getting Ramsey’s book. I am sure there are other good ones, too. I watched Suze Orman (not sure of the spelling) for a few minutes once; she seems to give good advice as well.

My final suggestion for now would be to find a good church where a pastor or members might know of a good counselor. Our denomination’s local association has a library that has a series of videos by Larry Burkett.

by: THE OTHER TERM GUY | September 4th, 2009 (10:55 am)

hey term guy look at your quotes
counterpoints.

First, Primerica in Canada is rarely competitive based on price, despite what is being stated.

Fact: Male, age 40, $500,000 of 20 year term, regular health

RBC: $99.90 per month
AXA: $101.25
Equitable: $102.15
AIG: 102.60
Canada Life: 102.60
Western: 105.37
Manulife: 106.25
and on and on for another dozen or so companies all cheaper than Primerica until we see:
Primerica $118.75

the price for Primerica is not $118.75 it is $84.55 for regular non smoker rate. Please do not lie. If you notice ours is dead FIRST not last like you had stated. Now that you know our price is better will you refer your clients to us? I did not think so! You are what is wrong with this industry LIE LIE LIE please just tell the truth as I do. If my client has a product that is better suited for them I say stay with it. Hey lier would you like to give me another quote I can destroy? By the way some of the largest insurance companies are raising the rates and ours is staying the same giveing is a even more competative advantage.

I certainly know nothing of insurance in Canada. Here in the U.S., I am sure you might also find better rates than Primerica; however, be sure to read all of the details. There are different types of term insurance, and I understand that many agents are deceitful. I have never sold insurance, but if and when I do, I pray that I will never deceive anyone.

My main concern is that people get out of debt – AND STAY OUT!

Hey TOTG your right man I checked the quote and its not $118! What a bold face liar that Term Guy..trying to deceive new people on this blog…well I guess their only resort left is to lie, cheat and steal their way to richness!Primerica Awesum!

Cheers!

by: Answer This | September 10th, 2009 (1:19 pm)

Just to be fair at the http://www.term4sale.com the PFS quote comes out to $85.50 per month. I used a Canada postal code of L3R…The lowest quote was $62.55 a month. As we can not see the details of the policy we can only make assumptions. That being said that’s still a $22.95 dollar month spread.

Now going to a 30 year fully guaranteed Primerica does come out number one at $103.30 Change it to preferred and Primerica still comes out at number 2.

Now switch over to the U.S. market and it’s a whole different picture. You can use a zip code of your choosing. As we know no quote is binding until the underwriting is complete. The quotes are for informational purposes.

Richard, my husband and I are looking at the Primerica business opportunity. I have owned and operated a few businesses but not in financial services. Please contact me at cygnifique@gmail.com, thank you. You seem to have the bigger picture :-)

Just ask someone how many “Preferred” policies and how many regular or rated policies are issued by Primerica . Everybody will dodge the question , as they don’t want to know . It is a common practice in Primerica (I’ve been there) to lead with the preferred rates which are competitive and then , after the underwriting is done and the client gets rated or offered a regular Non-Smoking rate , try to persuade the client with the FNA and how the life insurance in part of the “whole program” , so who cares if it’s more expensive ? This kind of business practices (and this is just one example) will make Primerica a place not even worthy of investigating .

by: the other term guy | September 30th, 2009 (8:09 am)

I only quote preferred policies if they answer all the questions and are in the correct weights and out of all the policies I wrote I have only had 1 come back as non prefered and that is because they lied when I asked them the questions. Our NT rates are also very competative. Most of what I write is NT or T. The reason for that is simple most people are in America are over the weight class to get preferred and that is also why I do not quote them preferred. It looks like the office you worked out of had some issues. If ours is more expensive than what they have and we have close to the same benifits I tell them to stay with what they have. My office has the clients best interest at heart.

You are just one person of the thousands agents licensed with Primerica . I don’t doubt you have your clients best interest , but that still doesn’t answer the question (which I asked PFS head office , but never got an answer of any kind) of how many preferred vs. NT or T vs. rated policies they issue , percentage wise . And when it comes to rates for NT and T , comparing at the same benefits , Primerica is not even close to being competitive , and that is an indisputable fact , no matter what the RVPs or PFS HO are saying . The only competitive product from Primerica , when it comes to insurance , is the preferred and preferred plus , which in my opinion is below 10% of the issued policies . With that being said (and you agreed most policies issued by you are NT and T) , I say Primerica doesn’t offer a competitive advantage to it’s agents , even worse , there is always the risk of a charge back , since Primerica pays 75% advance commission . Combine that with the fact that a brand new agent gets 25% commission with no bonus, then it goes to 35% , 50% , 60% and 70% , still no bonus , before you get to 95% and bonus at the RVP level , and you ask yourself if it’s worth the time ? A brand new agent with an independent agency will start at 80 to 110% commission plus bonus when they do 5000 premium right off the bat . Where is the competitive advantage again ? The Common Sense Fund is a decently good product , compared to the below average Concert Funds , but in today’s investment climate , people do feel safe not having to pay the DSC fees , or any fees for that matter while getting similar if not better results with the banks no load funds . Again , where is the competitive advantage ??? The SMART loan that offers ridiculous interest rates (the argument of time in debt doesn’t add up anymore) even for people with excellent credit scores , is a joke for a product . Again where is the competitive advantage ? The FNA , offered for FREE , like many others FREE reports offered by most advisors , sometimes with more indepth details , covering all the areas , including estate planning , tax optimization , and so on , not only the areas where a PFS agent has a product to sell . What is told only in the trainings at a high levels , and not to the regular PFS agents , is that the FNA was designed to be just that , a sales tool to push the PFS products , and not a comprehensive analysis of a family’s financials . Again , where is the competitive advantage ?

In conclusion , as I think the majority of the PFS agents are out there with good intentions , having bought into the corporate propaganda to help families , but they HAVE NO IDEA that they can do just that , build a business with overrides and incentive trips while offering their clients much better products at way lower cost , and earn a better living for themselves without having to go to weekly rah-rah parties and have the TV raise their kids while they slave away from home putting money in their RVP bank account . Don’t expect straight answer from your RVP in these matters , why would they give them to you ? To jeopardize their cash flow ??? Do yourself a favor and do some thinking and research on your own . Start treating your business as YOUR business and do a market analysis , try to position yourself realistically against your competition . Regardless of what your RVP is telling you , there are much better products out there and you can still advise your clients to BUY TERM and INVEST THE DIFFERENCE while making money for you instead of your RVP .

Does above “D”s comment sounds right to everyone out there? “D” worked with Primerica before? oh? for how hong? why did you quite? You sounds quite bitter about the RVP and their high income.

Remember, RVP was not born to be and not a position you have to work for a long long time to reach. Everyone in Primerica are on the same plateform to work to become a RVP. They worked harder than most average people when they were agents. In primeirca today, some yong people have reached RVP level in 7 months or less. 3 new RVPs came out of our baseshop since the begining of 2009. Build the business and work hard for 3 to 5 years. then you get your life and your own branch.

I don’t even want argue with no load fund and smart loan interest rate. Everyone who knows a bit about financial and invetment would know that no loan does not means no expenses to client and interest rate is not the only factor to determine the amount of interest.

Common sense averaged yearly return is almost 8% since inception. Concert fund is top award winning fund in 2008.

If you can sell UL for $3000 or even more commissions, tell me what is the benefit to you as an agent to advise your clients term insurance, which you can only make several hundred dollars. Primerica is the only company out there today selling term insurance only and selling other products 100% right to families. At least, from this point, the company was not built to make money out clients as other insurance or financial companies.

Also, based on what “D” said, i DOUBT what he is doing for his clients. suggest Non load fund, and high commissioned insurance products? quite possibly.

The reply sounds like a deja vu . Think what you want of me , but do me a favor , check the facts . You’re just stating the PFS propaganda , but you never bothered to verify it . I did and that’s why I got out . And my former RVP (he’s a NSD actually) , he’s a great guy that puts a lot of effort into his business . What I wonder though is why after all the “we love you guys, you’re like my family” , once I decide to quit (and by the way , I am out of financial services , back to running my good old computer consulting business which pays more than any of my former baseshop colleagues will ever make) he never even bothered to call me on my birthday , like he used to do . I guess I am one of the negative persons now that have to be avoided like they have the plague . I pity all of you PFS people for you don’t know what you don’t know . The system is designed for 99.9% of you to fail .

by: Answer This | October 10th, 2009 (3:20 pm)

Ok this should be good. Sunny state some agents have reached the RVP position in a matter of months. What is the benefit of the RVP position? How did they reach the RVP position? If the RVP and above position(s) are so great why have some agents who have reached those position left the company? I’m also not being negative. Facts are facts. There is no crusade. If there were you would be allowed to market products that are in the best interest of the client and not the company.

“D” the reason you don’t get cards anymore is…It’s nothing personal, it’s business. The same thing happened to me.

Check the fact, 9 out 10 new business fail in first several years. If primerica is making money fast and easy business, everyone would join. It is real business as other business out there.

You failed, and did not like the business, does not cover successs stories in this company. it is an opportunity, not high paid job position.

by: the other term guy | October 12th, 2009 (9:09 am)

I am an RVP and the benifit is a great contract with a bonus up to 30 that is not charged back on life insurance. The other benifit is after you are RVP and build your business and are promoted and show a few years of growth and promote at least 1 RVP you now own your business and can leave it to your family or sell it for 8 to 12 times your earnings. As far as RVP leaving the business it is simple after the promotion they think now all they have to do is enjoy the overide and that is not true. After being promoted you still need to work untill you have a team that is big enough to support your income. Most simply become lazy and don’t work and expect the team to do it all. We lead by example and if you are not an example your team will not do much. Just one point I was promoted to RVP with out a team. I did it with personal production and not recruiting. I am now tired of selling and I have just started to build a team. I did start to recruit in the begining but decided to just sell. Some of the people I recruited are no longer work with us are still great friends and when I have team parties I still have them come over as we are more of a family and just because it was not for them that is ok. I still see them and also send them xmas cards and b-day cards. I am sorry your old RVP did not do that but please do not blame Primerica for that. That is your old RVP having priorities mixed up. I do place family and friends before Primerica as it should be. OOPS I forgot one thing about why some RVP’s leave. It is also because some do not have a diversified business (mix of mortgage, life and investments). Many RVP’s rely on one main stream and you need to have a good mix because of market fluctuactions. Example I know of 1 RVP that the mortgage business was about 80% of her income and last year when the morgage meltdown happened so did the RVP’s cash flow and they had to leave. Some people just go for the easy money and if you don’t use all parts then you will in time lose. Hope this helps. To reach RVP you have to have 6 teamates that have small teams that are productive. You also have to do 20,000 in life production in 2 months and 20 recruits in those same to months. As for me getting promoted with out reacruiting all I had to do is double the production to show my RVP that I can make it and if you do 40K in production in 2 months you will survive and thrive.

Wow! So I just read every single post and am glad I did, for my own personal affirmation.

Some points I didn’t see mentioned:

AT seems to be very bitter about having to give up a leg. My RVP made thousands MORE the month she went RVP – even in giving up her best leg – than she did before. Side point: she went in December, a typically difficult month to promote in. Um.. so besides the fact that she made thousands more that month, consider this: yes, you give up one leg (to the person who trained you and developed you into being sucessful), but as an RVP & above, you have the opportunity to RECEIVE unlimited legs.

I also wonder how long you were in Primerica, and how “in” you really were.

Funny how The Term Guy never came back after his lying quotes ^_^

Other companies may start you out at a high contract, but some significantly drop that contract….

People who are bitter about having to work their way up from the bottom also need to remember: you control how fast you promote. The harder & faster you work, the faster you promote. The record is RVP in 30 days, SVP in 90.

TOTG – You went RVP on production alone? Impressive! That’s a LOT of personal production… lol kudos to you, man.

That should’ve answered the running question about “requiring” to recruit: not necessary. Just double your premium (at least in my office, and apparently TOTG’s). Is it easier and more sensible to build a business with lots of “outlets” like Richard said? Yes. Is it required? No. But also too, in recruiting, we offer people the opportunity to achieve their OWN financial independence… that’s pretty cool.

If a term premium is cheaper than ours, one of two things is wrong with it: it’s accidental, or the premium will EXPLODE at the end of the term when it’s up for renewal, to such an extent nobody could afford it. I’m talking the annual premium jumping from 1,700 to 40,000. What if you still need it?

Yes, we all wish our clients would BTID, not just buy the term, and put in place a financial plan so that at the end of their term, they don’t need as much. If your kids are grown and the house is paid and the debt is gone, do you still need 500,000 of life ins IF YOU HAVE invested the difference for the duration of your term? Not likely. BUT… what if you DO need it, or would like to have it anyway? Our premium doesn’t explode: it only goes up 30% from your current. Which FAR beats inflation (4% a year), so it doesn’t hurt the client in the slightest.

The biggest thing that burns me up about CV ins that I didn’t see anyone mention is that the client never gets both. They get their face amount only. Not to mention, like Richard said, it’s decreasing term insurance: the company uses your CV to pay a portion of your death claim. That way, your cash isn’t forfeited ;) Not to mention UL/VUL… throw up. The policy eats itself up. Two guarantees: no insurance and no savings at some point in time.

I forget who it was… Term Guy? kept picking about how we don’t offer a conversion… why would we want to offer conversion to a policy that’s much more expensive & keeps the savings (which are at a disgusting rate of return anyway)? Throw up.

I thought it funny how AT said “ME MYSELF and my client decdie what is in their best interest.” whereas Richard brings competitor’s quotes, PFS agents (should) always do an apples-to-apples T chart and our CLIENTS choose what is best for them — not us.

OH… and I’m very happy that we’re not being “bought,” rather, we will be publicly owned this spring. ^_^

Somebody said something about John Addison not caring about our agents…. I wasn’t in Hawaii/Vegas this month, but more than a few people have cried when talking about how much he does care about us and how much he has given up in order to make sure the spirit of ALW & PFS is kept alive.

Anyway. Just my 2 cents! ^_^

Oh, and another pro about recruiting/building a business…. it allowed my SNSD’s brother to go on a 2 week cruise in the Mediterranean without having to worry about his business or losing income, etc. etc. In building a business, you can eventually (SVP at the lowest, in my opinion), walk away from it & it will sustain itself if you have developed strong, independent leaders as your RVPs.

Correct me if I’m wrong, AT, but I don’t believe you can do that as an independent agent.

There’s a lot of “if”s and “but”s to be promoted RVP . The 20K over two months and recruits and what not , these are guidelines at best , it all depends on your upline to want to promote you . There is a big number of hard working primericans that were not promoted because their uplines didn’t wanted to loose the revenue or if they did promote the person , took away their business in the name of a “replacement leg” . As for having “ownership of your business” , you better read your contract again … ownership means you can take you clients , your teammates and move elsewhere without having to do with PFS ever again . That is not possible at Primerica , and that’s a fact ! Who says otherwise hasn’t read their contract at all . One last thing , nothing wrong with 9 out of 10 businesses failing in their first year , but at least they are given a chance on a leveled playing field . That is not true at Primerica . Your upline will eat out most of your natural market and income . With the kind of expensive and overly complicated products that Primerica offers , plus the cookie cutter approach to financial planning , your chances too succeed are more like 1 in 10000 than 1 in 10 . All Primerica big shots talk the talk , but they ain’t walking the walk because they know that’s not how you stay in business at Primerica .

by: The Financial Blogger | February 26th, 2010 (1:53 pm)

@Megan,
Being a financial planner myself, I usually take 3 weeks during summer time and nothings happen. appointments are simply booked a week before or a week after my vacation and I never lose business… Just just need a good assistant… as Primerica needs good agent to substain your income level.

by: The Financial Blogger | February 26th, 2010 (1:55 pm)

oh and Megan,

once the shares go public, you won’t be able to control who own them. I would buy shares if I’d like, someone from Primerica will surely sell them on the market at one point or another… we all need cash at some point ;-)

D -

I’m nowhere near looking at the RVP contract at this point. I think it’s an important point that you can’t take your team, etc elsewhere, if that’s important to a person. Me personally, I like PFS and intend on staying. My RVP loves to promote people and often does so early. That having been said, every hierarchy is different. I truly don’t understand why RVPs would NOT want to promote RVPs… without promoting RVPs, you can’t go SVP, NSD, SNSD. I’m curious as to why the one(s) you refer to didn’t want to promote RVPs?

TFB –

Makes sense that you can take vacation and so forth. Can you walk away from your business all together? I don’t mean that to sound sarcastic, I’m genuinely curious. My SNSD has been in the business since the 80s & he doesn’t work anymore. His business brings in 500k/yr for him and all he does is train us for an hour on Monday mornings. And being that you have an assistant, it sounds like you own a business, which is exactly what Primerica is. I don’t believe independent agents (like AT) usually have the same liberty, although I could be wrong.

by: The Financial Blogger | February 26th, 2010 (11:17 pm)

@ Megan,

Tell me, how many people in Primerica makes 500K/year (all right, let just say 100K/year) without having to wake up and work each week?

I surely have to work most of the year to earn my money… I guess you too.

People making 6 figure income without working… sounds like a fairy tale to me ;-)

I am not sure about this specific aspect of Primerica, but don’t an RVP must stay on top of their agents to make sure they don’t overpass them at one point? I mean, if you recruit someone that is amazing and that person build a team of 50 person and does all the training, are you really going to make money on the back of those 50 persons for the rest of your life ?

And if you answer yes, then why are you not in this position if making money is so easy? It seems too good to be true to me ;-)

TFB

RVP is the tipping point in PFS. Until an agent reaches the RVP level, a downline can surpass them. Once they reach RVP, a downline may reach a higher level, but wont ever stop being below them.

There are 5 agents in my office that make $100k+ that only need to show up maybe 20 hours a month to handle monitoring agents, filling out paperwork, etc. There are hundreds more that make $500k+ that don’t ever enter the office anymore.

That is the difference between being an employee, owning a job, and owning a business. Until you can walk away for a year and not worry about the business, you own or have a job.

I’ve NEVER met an independent agent that could walk away from their business for more than a few weeks. Maybe a month or two. Most independents own a job they can sell, not a business.

If you were to tell your boss that you are taking the next 6 months off, you’d get fired. If AT, RR, The rest, take the next 6 months off, their business would drop drastically. If an established RVP (or above) takes a 6 month vacation, their business would probably increase.

There is one in particular that was away for 9 months due to a nasty disease. During those 9 months, she was in the office a grand total of 7 hours. The rest of the time she was either at home in bed or in the hospital. Her business grew by 50% and her downline agents “babysat” her to make sure she was alright.

I’m not sure how many are 500k+. We’ve got a book with all the people over 50k, just don’t have it with me. I do know that Primerica has more people making 100k + than any other company in NA.

Once you go RVP, even if your downline “passes” you, you still override them (earn commission on their sales).

Lol, I never said making money was easy. It’s hard as crap for the first few years! But it only makes sense that the bigger your business, the less you have to work. However, it’s not recommended that a person leave the field until at *least* SVP. SVPs (have promoted 3 RVPs), if the RVPs they promoted are good, independent leaders, can ensure the business is self-sustaining.

Why isn’t everyone SNSD? Many reasons. Like I said, the first few years (especially first few months, for many) are the hardest and most frustrating. So some quit too quickly. They’ll give it a go for a few months, not do what they’re trained to (booking follow ups and expanding their business, developing leaders, etc.etc.). Others, like AT, prefer to be independent. Primerica certainly isn’t for everybody, and that’s okay. But that doesn’t mean it’s too good to be true. I’ve met too many people making 6 figures, who spend time teaching ME how to make 6 figures, for me to not believe in it. The checks don’t bounce :)

Cool thing too, all but one of the 6 figure earners that are happy to train me don’t make any money off of me.

Richard, what’s your contract? Just curious.

@ TFB, my RVP works 20 hours a week. She makes 250k per year & loves to promote her team ^_^

@Megan

Although not an RVP, I am higher than what RR thinks. I’d just rather not say since I’m about to go through a promotion or 2 within the next few weeks. I’ve also been in the industry for over 8 years now so am not a rookie as they want me to be.

Oh, I can tell you’re not a rookie, lol. You referred to having 100k earners in “your” office, was just curious if you were RVP & above, or if you were referring to people who are also in the office you work out of.

I actually really admire the way you’ve responded to everyone on this thread. I spent hours reading every single post last night.

by: Answer This | February 27th, 2010 (6:28 am)

Megan please don’t start. Your not talking to people who have not been in PFS. There are some things you just don’t know about the industry. I earn from Disability, LTC, Med Supps, Pre-Paid Legal, A Dental Plan, Living Trust Services, Mortgages etc. Not to mention income from my team production.

If I so choose I can take my agents and bring them to PFS if they wanted to come. Can you bring your agents with you to another company/organization if you wanted? If I did come to PFS I would also make a agreement with the office RVP so I wouldn’t start at the 25% level. Yet that couldn’t happen because I wouldn’t give up what I have have built to PFS. If you read your IBA you would understand. You see that’s the business side to all this.

Yes I do offer term products and yes Whole Life for Final Expense or when a Funeral Trust is wanted or needed. Yes when I come across clients who have special needs I do offer perm. products and suggest they consider a special needs trust.

Of course all this means nothing to anyone but me. You can run your business as you choose within PFS guidelines, but know this. Across the KT table PFS wouldn’t win. No matter what Richard may say. You see PFS/ALW has been around for over 30 years and where are all the financially independent people they have helped?
How many people are recruited a month yet the number of agents stay at 100K.

As for replacements and the noncompete clause it’s not an issue because you have not considered leaving PFS. If and when you do you will see the business side to all this. Why be under those limitations if you don’t have to?

Contrary to what you may think PFS is not the only game in town.. You just may not know of any other companies or organizations. Your posting to some who know both sides of this debate. Some know the business Inside and outside of PFS.

I will say this. In the near future your going to see a bunch of PFS agents leaving the company. PFS is going to have to make some serious changes to products, compensation and the IBA in order to keep agents. Many agents just don’t know of any alternatives.

@ Richard,
there is 2 things I don’t get:
#1How come Bill Gates, Jim Balsilie, Steve Jobs and even Oprahs makes millions of dollars while owning their own company but they would never be able to leave it for a year without working?

#2 But most importantly, if we can make money without working, how come less than 10% of the 100,000 people owning their business at Primerica make less than 50K?

I am all right with the fact that the people that was with Primerica for a while don’t have to work much and surely makes a decent income. However, it is another thing to say that everybody can do it. It’s like if I talk saying that there is a guy in my company making 8 millions per year and after 5 years, he can retire full of money. This guy’s name is the President ;-) He sure exists, but there are 16,999 other person making less than him.

oh and I forgot,
I have also been working with rep at Investors Group (the largest mutual firm in Canada). The big guys had such a huge book that they were making 300-500K in trailer fees. hence, with a good assistant, they could also virtually work 10 hours a month or less and still make that money until they die.

However, if you present those guys as an objective, it’s like telling your 12 yrs kids that play baseball that he will surely play for the Yankees in a few years…. he might but let’s be more realistic ;-)

@ AT –

I know you’ve been in the business… that’s why I asked how long. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being independent. Just that me PERSONALLY… I wouldn’t WANT to sell any insurance besides PLI. I didn’t read my IBA because it didn’t matter to ME. You make a valid point that if it’s important to someone to be able to take their team elsewhere, to be able to market many diff products etc, then independence is the way to go. MY point is that I’d rather sell PLI any day of the week over term that’s going to explode at renewal, or CV that’s going to use their own savings to pay their death benefit.

I also never advise someone to cancel their existing coverage until we issue a policy to them: that way, if they have a “burial policy” or exploding term or CV or what-have-you, and they are uninsurable, they can at least keep what they have.

By “Final Cost” policy, do you mean the kind my dad has? He’s paying 50 bucks a month for a 12,000 policy. We’re going to give him 150,000 for 80. I understand that not everybody needs sooo much more FA, but for a similar price, why not take it?

I’m not arguing with you, but you’re getting all condescending and high & mighty…. I just have a few questions:

1) Are any of the term products you sell accidental?
2) Do any of your premiums renew for less than 30% of the current premium?
3) Can you walk away from your business and maintain a substantial income?
4) You said towards the beginning of this blog that you’re not bashing PFS, but as it went on, you continued to bash the captivity & giving up a leg in an unbiased manner. So are you intentionally bringing a biased argument to the table for potential readers, or have your emotions just runneth over (No worries, it happens to all of us)? I feel like blogs like this should be objective.

Independence has its benefits in that you can market any product you want. But captivity REALLY isn’t that bad… I don’t think Alli & Josh & Roy & Roxy & Russel & Angela & Dave are complaining ;) (and btw, I just mentioned people from every contract level, and every level of income, rookies & veterans).

I have no issues with independence. I just wouldn’t want to sell any other life insurance.

I can’t speak on any of our other major products, as I’m not licensed in those areas.

TFB –

Everybody CAN. Not everybody WILL. You have to overcome what holds you back: Fear, Pride or Ego. Some don’t. Some don’t WANT to go to SNSD, they like their jobs & just want to make some extra cash on the side. AND… it’s not for everybody. Not everybody wants to recruit and sell. And as was mentioned, a lot of people give up in the first few months or years. But if you keep working, and do it right, the sky is the limit. Just because a lot of people don’t want to work, doesn’t mean the *business* doesn’t work, or that there’s something wrong with PFS. We are all responsible for our own success. And I have no qualms with how your business is run. I respect that you can walk away with a good assistant – that’s how it should be. My question is, does the President spend time telling the other 16,999 how to become the President?

As far as the question of “where are all the financially independent people we’ve helped,” you can’t make someone invest X dollars over X years. We bring them the information, they decide what to do with it. And we HAVE helped tons of families…. that’s how we became the #! FS company in NA ;)

AT –

My basic point about not wanting to sell competitor’s policies…. not even gonna go there about CV, because we both know it’s a ripoff to use someone’s own savings to pay a death claim so the insurer doesn’t have to take it out of their own pocket. But as far as term goes… PLI is #1, debt free, multiples times the amount required for reserves, with an add’l 7 billion dollars in assets. What does that make your companies? Even if they’re full of assets and financially sound and so forth….. they’re still not #1 ^_^

That having been said… I’m sure you can “beat” me across the KT in number of recruits. Maybe even in getting the initial sale. But when your policy is delivered and I show them the insides… well, I’ll be replacing it ^_^

TFB

#1 – Steve Jobs and Bill Gates (since I don’t know the third) don’t own their business. They started them. Jobs was away from apple for 6 months and they GREW. Bill Gates left Microsoft and, well, I’m not much of a MS fan but they are re-branding themselves to make themselves relevant. Bill does own, with his wife, a foundation that gives out money. Now if he leaves tomorrow, the foundation would still be there running things. If Jobs leaves Apple, Apple will still be there.

#2 – It’s not making money with out work, it’s working like made till you don’t have to and THEN getting paid on the results. As for WHY? Simple, not everyone wants to work that hard to build it to the level to be self sustaining.

Also, the positions you mentioned (president of the company), are just jobs. A TRUE Business Owner can walk away at any time and come back whenever and the business will still be there. Someone who is self employed owns a job that keeps them there.

As for Independents, well, you can have a decent staff doing all your day to day stuff, but eventually you’ll have to go back to the office to sign new business or approve downline business if you have any. Even then, it’s probably limited to just a few agents.

@AT
As for Primerica making changes, well, you do realize that Primerica IS making changes. When the IPO happens, Primerica WILL be the LARGEST FINANCIAL SERVICES MARKETING COMPANY in America. Not Insurance company, not Investment Company, MARKETING COMPANY. And I love being the bearing of bad news to you guys but, Primerica also has over 50% of ALL Licensed agents in USA.

I asked a business consultant of mine (who tears down and rebuilds businesses and LOVES Primerica’s way of doing things btw) about why with over half the licenses Primerica only has less than 2% market share. His response: “Because Primerica doesn’t screw people over. If you guys did, you’d have AT LEAST 30% market share.”

@ Richard, for the record, Jim started RIM (blackberry). When Steve Jobs left apple for several years, it was slowly getting eaten by its competitors. Apple needed Jobs to come back to grow again.

But then, the point is that any position, any business requires you that you work. You mentioned that your guys still come in the office to teach people and fill paperwork. This is the equivalent of any huge independant rep that has a 300M$ book of business.

Then again, we are talking about exceptions. They exist in all field but we are far from the reality of everybody else. What I didn’t like with my contacts with Primerica is that everybody told me that I could make a 6 firgure income while not working much when the reality is that most people at Primerica (and any other business in insurance or investment field) are working tons of hours and don’t make more than 50K.

@TFB –

RE: people at Primerica working “tons of hours” and not making more than 50K. That makes me wonder what they determine to be work, and what are they doing with their time. Some consider training to be work, and rightly so, but one doesn’t need to train forever. Also, some may consider the meetings to be work, and rightly so, but even those are only approx an hour and a half, once a week. But if they’re working “tons of hours” and not making more than 50k, one of ___ things are happening:

1. Selling to recruit (as opposed to recruiting to sell)
2. Working in the wrong market
3. Not following up.
4. Small baseshop (team).

1. If you recruit first, the sales will come more exponentially.
2. If you’re in the wrong market, you’ll spin your wheels going to 100 people who can’t use (18 yr olds think they’ll live forever & don’t believe they need life insurance, single adults without families may realize they should get some coverage so they aren’t someone else’s burden when they die, but they don’t need a higher *amount* of coverage, therefore, it’s a smaller sale, therefore lower commission) our products.
3. If you don’t follow up, you don’t grow. If you don’t grow, you die.
4. Small baseshop… obviously, the bigger your baseshop, the more people you have selling, the more overrides you make.

Richard –

I didn’t know that about us having 50% of licensed agents… pretty cool ^_^

I also want to mention to AT & TFB:

It takes a special kind of person to work with Primerica. Someone with more concern for families than income. Someone driven by wanting your team to succeed more than you want yourself to succeed. Common quote that WL agents can eat, but not sleep at night. Primericans can’t eat, but they can sleep at night. I hardly consider 6 figures to be broke, but the point is that yes, we do make lower commissions than agents, “Because Primerica doesn’t screw people over. If you guys did, you’d have AT LEAST 30% market share.” It really is true… lol But I mean… unless you’ve been in Primerica and know the insides of our policies compared the insides of our competitor’s policies, then a person wouldn’t know that. AT, having been a PFS agent, knows our policies & the competitor’s & chooses what she feels is better for HER, to go independent. Great for her! But that’s not the type of person that really is a Primerican at heart.

But we can’t all be Primericans. Someone has to give us a policy to replace ;)

Megan,

ok, so here you are, you are making 100K +, barely working 5 hours a week. How many people do have to work full time beneath you so you can achieve this goal? How many people actually reach this level? Because most people have to sell something and generate cash to make sure that a few ones are enjoying life… basically the same thing happen in any company.

If I refer to my president making 8M$ per year. Well if he works 5 years, that makes 40M$. Then, he could quit and live without working. This would be the equivalent of your guy making 500K+ without working much during 80 years….

The example is extreme but if one guy out of 17,000 employees do it in my company, I guess that not more than 6 persons (the same ratio considering that Primerica has about 100,000 reps) make this at Primerica, am I right?

I am not talking about big sellers, only people who do not work more than 20 hours a month to make 500K+….

Then again, it’s like saying my kid will be the next Sydney Crosby at hockey…. he may… but he has 1 chance out of a million to be the next exception.

You can’t compare your company to mine as far as ratio goes. Again, we have more reps in our company making over 6 figures than any other company (in any industry) in North America.

The people working <5 a week have already left the field and only show up to approve something to be sent to compliance or train for an hour or two in the office. How many do they have under them? Countless, true. But the thing about our company is that anybody who works, moves to the top, and those under them can move to the top… always moving, always growing. People who stay at entry level contracts do so by choice. Either by not overcoming fear/pride/ego, or because they choose not to work as much as the guys did to get up to 6 figures. It's all about how much you want to work, and how fast you want to do it.

Like I said, it's not for everybody. And I'd hate to see someone tell their son their chances of being the next Babe Ruth are 1 in 17,000…. that's what's wrong with society today. We kill people's dreams. Because if their son practices enough and trains enough, he CAN become the next Babe Ruth. That's the thing: people can be anything they want to be, they just have to be willing to work and pay a price. But so many people tell others they can't, or they'd have to be lucky, or it's too good to be true….. Primerica gives people who are "nobodies" a chance to be somebody. All they have to do is work. And whether they choose to work or not, is up to them. If you work, you will get paid and you will promote and you will become successful. If you don't…. you won't.

People look at the income potential in Primerica and say it’s too good to be true, or they expect it to be a get rich quick program, and it’s not. So when they don’t get rich quick, they chalk it up to being a scam or a pyramid. “It’s too good to be true” is easily disproven: the checks don’t bounce. The houses are real, the cars are real. I’ve been in them. Does everyone make it to the big time? No. Do MOST people make it to the big time? Absolutely not. But that’s through their own choices. You can never say they didn’t have the opportunity to train (and apply their learning) to make it to the big time.

Megan,
I understand your point that anything is possible and that some people makes big bucks every where and in every field.

but tell me: how many years have you been working for Primerica and how much money are your making and many hours are you doing? ‘Cause you are saying that people that don’t get to the top are people that are not working hard enough or smart enough. So I guess you are already making 6 figures working 20 hours/week? If not, well there is a problem with what you are saying.

I’ve been working as a financial planner for 2 years and I am already making 6 figures income (plus insurance and other benefits) and I am working 30 hours a week. See; it’s possible everywhere. The point is that a very few people can do it. Even in my company, most financial planners work 40-50 hours and make 60-75K… so why I can work less and make more money… go figure! All I know is that the majority will never make a lot of money while working few hours…in any companies!

You are telling me you have to work hard to get to the top, it’s the same thing with other companies. Most people in VP position make awful lot of money and they get a huge pension plan so they finish by not working and earning tons of money… nothing different here.

I’ve been visiting tons of Investors Group offices and they all have their “heroes” making so much money. I’ve been dealing with them for 4 years and I realize 3 things:
#1 There are several people there making some really good money (over 500K)

#2 But the majority of them average 50K

#3 80% turnover rate for the first year as people don’t survive in this area.

I’ve been to 2 Primerica meetings and I didn’t see anybody making more than me or driving a nicer car than me (and I have a Mazda, so nothing to brag about!). I don’t say that you can’t make money with Primerica, I am sure you do. But it’s not that easy and not that many people makes it. I just wish you (Primerican) were more realistic with your assumptions.

If a guy that seems to be good and competent and smart as Richard (I really like the guy, for real!) is not a RVP yet (and I fell he has been with the company for a while), then it is probably much harder than you let people think.

by: Answer This | February 27th, 2010 (3:37 pm)

Megan get a bit more education on products. How can you say you didn’t read the IBA? “I didn’t read my IBA because it didn’t matter to ME”. That a great way to go into a business venture.

You’ll figure it out.. Also it’s not bashing when telling the truth.. If you have read anything I said that was wrong please feel free to correct me.
The glory days of PFS are over.

TFB –

Not once did I say it was easy. Not once did I say most people make it to the top. I’ve said everything opposite to that.

I don’t discuss my income with people. It’s rude. “How much do YOU make?” Who cares? I’m successful, and I know it works, and that’s all that matters.

The difference between my company and the big corporates, is that the guys at the top teach you everything you need to know to make it to the top. Again I ask: does the president of your company teach the new guy exactly what to do to be President?

AT –

Honestly, the IBA didn’t matter to me. I’m here to make a difference in my own life. I personally could care less if i’m captive or independent. It doesn’t matter to me if someone else owns me, as long as I’m happy. And I am happy. I also knew that I could quit anytime I ran into something I didn’t like. Now, if my IBA were a binding contract in that I didn’t have the leisure to quit anytime, of course I’d have read it. But hell, I blow 99 bucks in a weekend. Might as well try to make something out of it. It was reimbursed to me anyway after a few weeks. No harm done. Haven’t run into a reason to quit yet.

You are telling me that you have met and been trained by John Addison and Richard Williams?

I didn’t get trained by my president, did you?

Yeah, a RVP is training you, but how many thousands of RVP’s do you have? We have managers, regional directors and external consultants to extent our knowledge. We also receive training in big corporations… nothing new here. I have learned most of my jobs from people higher than me… as anybody else. Why Primerica has too be so different? you get training, I get training, then what ?

I don’t think discussing income is rude, I didn’t mean to be rude. All I am saying is that if you are successful, you shouldn’t be ashamed to say how much your make and how little you work for it. It’s not like I will request you a copy of your pay stub ;-) Most Primerica I have discussed with say that they CAN make 6 figure income… but when you ask how much they make, they usually don’t make it. It’s not a problem by itself, it is fine and I don’t judge them. After all, not many people make over 100K. However, what annoys me is that Primericans usually sound like everybody does it in their company.

If you are saying that Primerica is the best place in the world, it will require me more than a few good words for your company.

Then again, I am not a hardcore anti-Primerica, I am just saying that it is not as pink as Primericans mention.

TFB,

No, I’m not an RVP. I also haven’t applied myself as I should have. I spent more of my time learning products instead of in the field. If someone does apply themselves, they can realistically go RVP within 6 months with a 100k income to follow shortly there after.

If someone decides to stay part time (below RVP), they can realistically also make $100k+ within a couple years with only about 20 hours a month.

Note: The only things that count as work is either being on appointments or scheduling appointments.

Does everyone do it? Of course not. Most will see how much other stuff must be done and leave saying it’s to hard. Is it hard? Defiantly. I’m fortunate that the RVPs doing the training in my office have a combined 200 years experience between them. All came in under the AL Williams umbrella and many were also partially trained by Art Williams himself. In our office, if you prick us, we bleed AL Williams and NOT Primerica.

We’ve been trained not only on our products, but ALSO on our competitors products. Not just life, but also on annuities, long term care, etc.

As for talking about income, my clients know EXACTLY how much I make off of them. I figure it out and tell them without them even asking. I include that as part of my full disclosure.

by: Answer This | February 27th, 2010 (7:10 pm)

Megan can you tell me the guarantee periods on your life products. I’m sure you are dong what you feel is best for you but at some point what’s best for the client has to come into the picture. As a captive agent you have to do what’s best for Primerica.

TFB –

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to accuse you of being rude. I apologize. I don’t like to discuss my income for the simple fact that what I make has no bearing on what anyone else in my downline makes, or the potential income of newcomers. Naturally my income has a bearing on my upline, but If I’m not mistaken, there are only… 4 or 5 people in my upline. But I’ve found that if I tell someone how much I make, it never bodes well: they don’t believe what I’m saying anyway, about my income or the company. When someone asks me about my income, what they’re REALLY asking is “Can *I* be successful?” so I address the root issue.

I have not personally met John Addison, no. However, he does train on EPN every week, and has trained at conventions and so forth. Had I worked a little faster, I *could’ve* been trained by him (could’ve won the trip to Vegas or Hawaii). However, the guy that trains me every Monday has travelled for months with Art Williams, and has more than likely been trained by John, as he does go to all the conventions & so forth that John speaks at. So as far as that goes… I’m only 2 down. Point is that even though I haven’t personally met John, that doesn’t mean that he hasn’t met and trained thousands of people. Just that I don’t happen to have been one of them.

AT –

10 yr term, premium guaranteed 10 yrs.
15 yr term, premium guaranteed 15 yrs.
20 yr term, premium guaranteed 20 yrs.
25+ yr term, premium guaranteed 20 yrs, HOWEVER, the rate will ONLY increase after the 20 years in the case of a major epidemic causing a catastrophic number of deaths. IF something were to happen and they get raised, they only go up by 30%. That having been said, we have never raised our scheduled premiums (meaning in the 25+ yr terms, the premiums were never raised after the 20th yr). Not even for 9/11, Katrina, or various other catastrophes. The 30/30 & 30/20 debate was already exhausted earlier in this thread, no need to go there again.

When the term comes up for renewal, the premium is raised by 30%.

There is a free Increased Benefit Rider (IBR) which can increase your face amount by 5 or 10% annually, if you choose to do so upon your anniversary date. So when your anniversary date comes up, if you decide to increase your benefit by 10%, your premium will increase according to the age you were at the time you applied for your policy. But that is optional.

So then, were you gonna answer the questions I asked you?

Richard –

I’m a little jealous, I’d love to have one of the original 85 in my office! Like I said, my SNSD was around during the days of AL Williams, but he’s not one of the original 85 :)

AT made a point about Primericans on message boards on the other thread. Read my compliance on POL and will take my leave.

You all have a good night and take care.

Although none in my office are from the original 85, 3 in my upline are. :)

by: Answer this | February 28th, 2010 (7:37 am)

“The 30/30 & 30/20 debate was already exhausted earlier in this thread, no need to go there again. ”

There’s no debate. Given the choice of a 30/20 or a full 30/30 guarantee which one do you think a client would choose. Which one in your opinion would be in the best interest of the client?

To Megan and Richard and others :
First , asking “how many people are making such and such” is futile . Yes , Primerica prints the book with people making 50K+ . What nobody mentions is that these people made that once to qualify . The key to the question is “consistence” . How many people consistently , year over year , make such and such . The number is significantly down that way . Plus , if you add up all the people making 100K+ reported for a year , they are only 2-3% of the overall licensed agents , which is extremely low . The point I am trying to make is the deception the RVPs are selling to the recruits that if they work hard they will be millionaires . B.S. !
To TFB :
Great job man ! You are the voice of reason and I so much hope some of the poor souls at PFS would read your posts and realize the deception put forward by the RVPs at Primerica .

One last reminder , working hard and having good professional ethics will make you a success story at any company in any field . And yes , Richard , Primerica will have the most agents in America , but also the most poorly trained , borderline criminal for their clients .

Funny, my clients never had an issue going from a 30/30 to a 30/20. Especially when they realize that their old policy will balloon at the end of term, wont allow them to keep affordable coverage AT THE SAME FACE AMOUNT if they get a uninsurable condition, AND when they understand that Primerica has NEVER raised rates (and I’m not sure if MILICO ever did before).

When they also hear the stories from the office of situations that we legally should not have paid, but still have. It is not an issue.

AT, from all the carriers you represent, how many stories do you have of situations where the they legally had no reason to pay but did anyways? Seriously, I want to know. Every time I ask that of agents from other carriers, EVERY time I have heard this: “I have heard of no such stories.”

And AT, you are starting to sound more and more like a broken record trying to nit-pick at items. The longer the guarantee you get the more concern one should have with the company. Especially when those companies are now having to raise rates to cover costs instead of predicting them and pricing accordingly.

You can give me lifetime guarantee, but if the company isn’t around to service it, it’s crap. Over the last couple years, all your companies have been gearing up for what is about to happen in the next couple months, and they don’t like that.

Why else would your companies have gotten a law passed to prevent investigations into the insurance industry without it’s permission? Why would they have gotten an FTC chairmen fired for publishing a report? Why would they spend millions each year getting laws pass that are supposed to hinder just companies over 80k in agents (only one company is)? Or how about the stupid law that requires you to have a second chance to KEEP your business after we replace it? There is no other industry that is more mob like than insurance, and your companies are the mob.

THey have over 98% market share and are slowly loosing it to honest truth that is backed by independent 3rd parties. They are running scared, more so now due to the IPO coming. It’s about to get more “fun” than it was back in the AL Williams day and they know it. Last time, the industry got cut in half and their agents dwindled. This time, we wont be so generous.

D,

My RVPs never once lied to me about making a million. They flat out drew out what had to be done and how to get there. Same for $100k+. I hate to tell you this but there is an RVP in my office that went over $200k not but 2 weeks ago and is about to already surpass $300k within just a few more months. About the same time HIS upline RVP goes over $300k. At his pace he should go over $400k by year end. And yes, he will be able to maintain it.

As for poorly trained, depends on your office. I’ve met State Farm agents (they go through 9 months of training before doing their first sale) that I have taught a thing or 2 on their own products. I recently met a 40 year veteran of the insurance industry that, even with as many policies he has sold, learned something about his own product after it got replaced.

You see, my office isn’t poorly trained, and they make sure we aren’t either. They are very adamant that if we don’t know the answer, we tell the client that and go find it. Not tell them a lie and come back and correct it later. Oh, and that State Farm agent, admitted to lying to his clients to get business.

by: Answer this | February 28th, 2010 (3:11 pm)

Richard how is it in the best interest of a client to go from a 30/30 to a 30/20? you can use all the PFS spin justification you want but that’s adding more risk to the client. As for your logic with guarantee periods why does PL have any guarantees periods?

As for the stories I don’t hear them because I deal with more than one carrier and it’s not all about hype. I’m sure it happens. I deal with what is in front of me. No one is running scared of PFS. LOL.. You speak about SF agents well let me say this. I have seen some things done by PFS agents that were not on the up and up so please don’t go that route.

Richard let me ask you this. Let’s get down to basics. I’m assuming you have been around the block a few times. When you have one company who is us against the world and everyone else is out to screw the world except us should that at some point at least raise a caution flag? You say you study the industry, but as you know some of us have come from PFS and we know the training is geared toward PFS and recruiting.

I said nothing of hype. I hear actual stories. Some come from home office, most come from MY office. I’ve even asked agents who have been in for decades, they have heard no stories either. At least no positive ones.

We even have a client that bought the policy 20 years ago. She kept the old one because the old agent said we were scam artists, but she still kept the MILICO policy because a friend sold it to her. When her husband passed is when we found out she kept the old. Filed claims with both companies. Primerica paid within 10 days. The old policy took over 6 months to pay. No it was not a group plan.

As for PFS agents not all being honest? I know that as well. Percentage wise, it’s the same as with any other company. It’s the numbers. You’ll just hear more about Primerica due to the size difference. When you compare a company with 100k+ agents vs a company with 10k agents, you’ll get a different number of bad agents.

Caution flags should only be raised when actual caution is around. Does it bother me? Yes. Do I see what is happening in the field to justify the thinking? Yes.

How do I know it’s justified? I run the numbers. Term to Term, everyone I replace, yes, even the ones that are cheaper than Primerica, all balloon at the end by a sizable amount. I see the conversion numbers and run them for the client using different scenarios. I even show them how to figure it themselves so they can verify what I’m telling them. EVERY TIME the old agent, like you, loses. And not once has the old agent come around to fight it. Unless the policy was less than 1 year old. Since the biggest commissions are in the first year, it makes since.

As for not running scared of PFS? Then why are PFS’s competitors stepping up their recruiting efforts TOWARDS Primerica? I’ve seen 10x more recruiting letters and pamphlets since the IPO was announced than the 8 years prior COMBINED. I’ve talked to other agents who have recieved memos saying they must target more Primerica business to either replace or recruit the agent. Those are signs of running scared.

by: representingtheclient | March 8th, 2010 (9:03 pm)

Richard, you guys are none for making the following statement: “Kids grown, out of the house, mortgage paid, and no debt”. So Richard why are you concerned about the ART premims after the initial term period? Are you admitting that BTID does not always work? ART is not even a thought for me.

Correct me if I am wrong your premiums turns to ART rates also. Unless the client renews that term. And be honest and tell everyone how that renewed term really works.

NO one is recruiting you like you are special. I am solicited all the time. My office phone, email, and mail. It is just because we have a license. Solicitations increased because the average agent is hitting retirement age. No company is sending out memos to target you guys. Correct me if I am wrong but that will lead to a lawsuit.

The only reason I replied is because someone may actually believe you.

Well, if you insist.

” your premiums turns to ART rates also”

Nope. At end of level period, if no exchange is done, policy switches to 5 year level periods. At age 70 (or at next renewal time, which ever is greater) it switches to EITHER ART or DT based on client’s request. But if I’m right, I’ve mentioned that before. I guess you don’t like reading or remembering. Note: this is the current policy, not the new ones coming out soon.

“No company is sending out memos to target you guys. Correct me if I am wrong but that will lead to a lawsuit.”

It’s not illegal. Sorry.

” Are you admitting that BTID does not always work?”

No. BTID works when the client utilizes both sides. Never stated any different and each of my clients that are fiscally able to, participate both sides.

“NO one is recruiting you like you are special.”

Really? Every time I meet an agent face to face, and they hear I’m from Primerica, they immediately go into a recruiting pitch talking about making more money. Not once do they say ANYTHING about the client, they just talk about money.

The only reason I replied to you is because, despite how much you say we suck, you still don’t have a fucking clue about us.

by: representingtheclient | March 8th, 2010 (11:40 pm)

Richard, you guys are known for making the following statement: “Kids grown, out of the house, mortgage paid, and no debt”. So Richard why are you concerned about the ART premims after the initial term period? ART is not even a thought for me.

A insurance companies and agents can’t target another company, if that was the case we would all put out ads saying that I can save you X amount of dollars on your term policy from your company Richard.

“Really? Every time I meet an agent face to face, and they hear I’m from Primerica, they immediately go into a recruiting pitch talking about making more money. Not once do they say ANYTHING about the client, they just talk about money.”

That is because they have already replace the your policy, the agent might as well try to recruit you. They are assuming you have common sense.

by: Answer This | March 9th, 2010 (1:12 am)

First off let me just say Richard it doesn’t look good to use that language. Remember you do represent. PFS.

Rep. the client: I read on another message board that PFS is coming out with a policy that will have a fully guaranteed period I assume beyond 20 years. With their logic if the selling point is they never raised rates, why have any guarantees at all? Spin time….

“A insurance companies and agents can’t target another company, if that was the case we would all put out ads saying that I can save you X amount of dollars on your term policy from your company Richard.”

You do watch TV right? I see commercials all the time of insurance companies doing just that. But I was in reference to memos being issued to agents, not advertising so this line or arguing is moot.

“That is because they have already replace the your policy, the agent might as well try to recruit you.”

Nope. I never see them after I replace their policies and I’ve never lost one. General consensus I see, speaking from common sense of course, is you put a bunch of traditional agents in a room, everyone is nice. Put a Primerica agent in there, all hell breaks loose. That room becomes a lot like this thread. Agents running scared of some part time hillbillies.

“doesn’t look good to use that language”

You’re right, it doesn’t. I should also point out I’ve used harsher language on my clients when they are making idiotic financial decisions. Yes they are still clients, and they respect me for being real with them. Sometimes, you just have to call someone a fucking idiot before they realize you care. I would say try it sometime, but salesmen can’t get away with it.

And I’ll say it again. I can shit in a box and slap a guarantee on it, it’s still shit.

by: Answer This | March 9th, 2010 (8:35 am)

Richard I’m sure you understand PFS at one time did monitor message boards which I’m sure they still do. I don’t think they would like to see one of their agents say that they use such language with clients.

It’s not a point of being a salesman or using salesman tactics, it’s called respect.

They still do, and quite heavily I might add.

And such language, when used appropriately, is still a sign of respect. It’s also a sign that you actually care about them. You see, HAVING respect for someone is different than SHOWING respect.

The reason I use it on occasion isn’t to insult them, it’s because when my friends make dumb mistakes, that is how I talk to them. I make sure all my clients know, my goal is to become their friend so I can better serve them. Occasionally, that does mean using less than stellar language.

I have tried to read as much of this blog as possible however a lot of this is extremely redundant, so I’ll leave a little note along with an actual representation.

I’m a newly promoted RVP with Primerica. I have been in the business for 3 years now and have just crossed over the 6 figure income bracket. I am a natural worker. I spent 5 years in the Marines, 2 years at Scottrade and 2 years at Edward Jones, bringing a lot of bad habits and a lot of great knowledge with me to Primerica. I have never lied to a single recruit. I have never deceived a client and I honestly believe that this is by far the greatest opportunity to build a business inside of a business on the planet.

The real issue here is that Primerica has not hidden the fact that it is a financial distribution power house and always will be. The bloggers and the haters of Primerica have spent a lot of time and energy killing the company, but what the real problem is, is that Primerica has done such a good job of getting into homes and spreading itself with it’s ingenius marketing system that the competition has no other defense than to get online and bash till they are blue in the face. I have field knowledge outside of Primerica; I have expertise; I am a student of my craft and there isn’t anyone in my competition that can do something better for the client than I can. Period!

The points in these blogs are completely moot because in a few weeks, there will be stock, there will be a public company and investors are already salivating at the opportunity to be a part of this thing. And I can assure you a company that spends $230 mln in stock is going to have done a lot more research than the yahoo’s posting negative articles and comments on blogs.

See you at the top!

David,

They are doing $330 million with a cap of 35% of ownership. Beyond that, congratulations and spot on.

by: Common Sense | March 30th, 2010 (2:22 am)

Richard,

“You’re right, it doesn’t. I should also point out I’ve used harsher language on my clients when they are making idiotic financial decisions. Yes they are still clients, and they respect me for being real with them. Sometimes, you just have to call someone a fucking idiot before they realize you care. I would say try it sometime, but salesmen can’t get away with it.”

The Only reason you could use such language with your clients, is because they are all cousins, uncles, brothers/sisters of yourself and your recruits.

David,

I have been around for a little over 7 years now and have friends that have been in PFS and some of them have tried to recruit me in the past. The point is that the same story of something better is just about to unveiled has been around for a long time.

Last time I recall, Citi couldn’t sell PFS to anyone even if they paid that Entity to buy it.

Megan,

“Honestly, the IBA didn’t matter to me. I’m here to make a difference in my own life. I personally could care less if i’m captive or independent”

That has to be one of the most absurd comments I have ever read in my 7 years regarding a business endeavor decision.

I have nothing else to say to you, since I would feel like I’m addressing a child.

To the others,

After reading this post for hours it becomes redundant and feels like a war of Wills.

PFS is the largest Company in the US but ratio to ratio has the lowest numbers of individuals earning high income, the fallout ration is just insane, the charge backs are out of this world.

Are their products unique? Not at all…

Will you find a better deal somewhere else? Yes 100% of the time.

Are all their agents honest and lookout for the client? I would would start with this… If the product you sell is extremely overpriced, does it serve the client well?

The responce would be something like this. Other agents are dishonest and all they care about is commissions, but it seems (PFS agents) all they care about is overrides.. How else would anyone sell such a thing?

I have heard countless times from some of their agents that other Companies operate at a loss… That right there, would be an end to the discussion. I could not discuss anything with someone who could make such a statement. It is simply idiotic to say such a thing.

They argue that they have certain conditions that makes their products superior and untouchable. They have to say that, if not how will they defend the over priced issue they have with their only product.

If you have to pay an entire higherchy from one sale, there is no other way on earth to do this but to raise the price/cost.

One of my main concers with their system is the fact that it’s Foundation is flawed?

How could anyone own a business if they don’t have the Title of incorporation under their name.

They have no control whatsoever in which direction their business goes or products they sell. The agent is an employee that is simply 1099… This saves the Company millions of dollars in benefits they would have to provide, So it is simply disguised as an oportunity to own a Business.

Would anyone with Capital buy such a Business? Would have to be in an insane state of mind to do such a thing.

Hence, this is why it could only be sold to another individual in the same system.

Last time I heard It could not be sold in the open market or be able to offer shares to bring in capital into the business allowing it to grow at a much faster pace.

I come to the conclusion that most of their agents are easily manipulated individuals that would believe anything.

Specially how they love to quote people…

They lack serious training and guidence. From the few meetings I attended from them years ago… All I heard was how great is to recruit and override thousands of dollars while eating dinner with your family. By having a moron recruit others and give away thier warm markets and commissions.

It sounded tempting to be honest… Not really!!!

I dislike PFS and any other MLM system out there. In my opinion they survive because they attract weak minded people over.

NO individual with their head staright and a common sense who strives to own a business would open it under any MLM out there.

They are all simply put “Pipe dreams” and “Kool-aids buffets”

I have to say, this last post is amusing to say the least. I’m not going to argue all your points, I did a little research on Warburg Pincus, the investment equity firm that has committed $330 mln to the Primerica IPO and it looks like this company did it’s homework. The Bloomberg report shows that this is a $15 bln company that invests in high profit, high return IPOs. They toar into the Primerica business system and analyzed all of our products and concluded that we were the strongest financial services distribution company and put up the money to prove it. Here is what I’m being told is their findings.
1) Our new contracts negotiations for product distributions will/have given us access to the best/cheapest products for the consumer but still return a profit (i.e. or new conforming loan will not have the huge broker added yield spread, no application fee and upfront appraisal fee; on top of that, all rates are market, just like everyone else.)
2) The size of our distribution force is unmatched
3) The history of the company speaks for itself.

As far as some of your other comments, all RVPs that gain ownership, do incorporate themselves or LLC. The above information says it all about why someone would invest in us. I can assure you that they spent a lot more time and money investigating our company than you or any other blogger has.

Simply put, the company is huge and will take over a large sector of the market. And while you and I are blogging, someone in that company is building a business inside a business and nothing your creative, fabricated and misinformed words on a blog can do about it.

David , the typical brainwashed PFSer … Good luck David , and god help your clients .

D,
Brainwashed? I guess we brainwashed Citi back when they paid a $1 Bln for us and now we are brainwashing the Private equity investment firms that are spending 100s of millions of dollars on us. Very good come back D. God does help my clients by putting me in front of them. Thanks for the support!

by: the other term guy | March 30th, 2010 (9:40 am)

D, you mentioned over priced product. Please look back at a conversation I had with the term guy (non pfs guy). Notice our prices beat the heck out of the other companies that he quoted and he had noted that that was the best price he could find and we were light years better even in the area of price. So before you open your mouth please check your facts. In that case our price was better but ours is not in all cases. But what I have found is that about 90% of the time ours is better. When it is not it is usually off by a few bucks. I then look at the renewal rates and compare with ours and if our renewals are a boat load lower then I advise the client to go with us. If the other product has good renewal rates I say stay with what you have. I sat with one client and our 20 year term was $2 more per month. The renewal with the other company was going up from 90 per month to over $7,000 per month and ours was at under $400. I do recognize that my client should not need the insurance at that point because he will actually be debt free in 17 years (thanks to pfs) and he has a pension that will pay what he needs for retirement and has an investment with us that if he only gets a 8% return over time with give him over $500,000 in his Roth IRA. (his return from January 2009 to now March 2010 is over 50%). That being said the renewal can be important just incase towards the end the become terminally ill the can extend our term with one of the lowest renewal rates on the market all the way up to age 95. It does not renew at the end for an ART it renews for him at a 20 term. D, you sound like the one who is brain washed. After you read the post that the term guy and I had please feel free to say you are sorry for lying about our price. Thanks and lets all be honest.

As far as the other PFS guy the calls his client F*&%*&$ idiots. Please stop it is not professional and if your clients are acting that way get better at teaching them instead of yelling at them. It does make you and our company look bad. If you were in my office it would not be for long. I respect myself and that is why I would not use that language with my clients.

As far as training my office trains on product and not just our product we focus on learning the competitions product to make sure we understand and give the best information we can for our clients. The big meetings you go to are usually for motivation and to teach recruiting. The teachings at the office and field training appointments are for product. I train 3 hours every week on product. My agents have had many appointments that the other agent was invited to and not one time was the competition able to show how the product they sold was better then the reason is simple. Our product was better and my agents were trained better. When I first started I had an agent from the other company say I was not telling the truth about our product. I was only in business for 6 months and the other agent was in the insurance game for over 40 years. By the end of the conversation he agreed that the best way to go was with our product because his whole life insurance was just as I explained to the client and he came up with a quote for the same year term for our client (that is what I advised him to do because if it was better I would tell my client to go with him) his price was 20% higher that our rate for the same 20 year term. He was amazed because he got his quote from 19 other companies.
Mr D. again please check all your facts!

I did check my facts , “the other term guy” , and PFS is only competitive for super-preferred rates , people in the age group of 25-40 . Outside these parameters , there is always a better rate . The other fact is that PFS rarely qualifies someone as preferred , and even rarer for super-preferred . Also , rating someone’s policy is common . Bottom line , if we compare quotes , you can show off your super preferred rates and beat everyone , but when an actual policy is issued , things are completely different . I once asked my RVP (who is actually an SNSD and one of the top 10 PFS people in Canada) what is the percentage of policies issued as preferred and he dodged the answer for a couple of months , eventually he said that probably the head office doesn’t have the statistic or they don’t want to give it to him , which I think is total BS . I give it to the PFS marketing guys that they know how to sell the stuff to the recruits , but when it comes down to the hard facts , they turn into extreme spin masters . Unfortunately , if you’re out there long enough , you start seeing through the crap what the reality is . So , I am not apologizing to anyone , especially to a PFS er , since you are the ones that should check the facts and apologize to everybody else . I dare you to do this exercise for yourself , and in good faith try and find a better deal for your client . If PFS is the one , by all means , that should be offered to the client , but I doubt it it will be the case very often .

by: Common Sense | March 30th, 2010 (1:09 pm)

David,

“D” said it best:

“the typical brainwashed PFSer … Good luck David , and god help your clients .”

“all RVPs that gain ownership, do incorporate themselves or LLC” You see… missed it again. Those incorporations are for tax purposes. As per ownership they own the Corporation on
paper, But the Corporation owns NOTHING.

Please, if you are going to have a serious discussion keep in mind most of us are Business owners and have some sort of understanding and knowledge of how things work.

Save those Kool-aids comments for someone else.

As for The other Term Guy:

All I hear is, I had a case in which I met an agent that had been in the business for countless years and after discussion, he realized PFS was the best thing around.

Do you know how many times I have heard such comments from various PFS agents? It always sounds the same, like it is scripted.

As far as all those other examples they are just stories, which could not be confirmed nor denied. It is best to keep such things out of posts. they are irrelevant.

Why don’t we cross quote to see how many out of 10 do you beat me on? Don’t spin answer now. Put some teeth behind your stories.

D,

If you are so passionate about righting a wrong, then why don’t you join the IMSA and investigate insurance companies? Unlike BBB and other organizations, Insurance companies cannot join the IMSA. It’s an independent organization that rates ethical practices in the insurance industry and once again, we got an exemplary business practices rating.

As far as quoting preferred plus, I have never seen that as a practice amongst offices. Our organization strictly adheres to quoting preferred or standard until the policy is issued. If it comes back better, then a savings to the client.

As far as the rest of the industry, Insurance companies for years have been throwing out their preferred plus rates. You see it on every commercial and then at the bottom of the screen in little white letters you see the words “based on a preferred plus rating”.

I’m sorry if you got burned in the organization you were in. Or if you were treated unfairly. I also apologize if you got poor mentorship. But, I can only speak for myself and my office that everything you have said above does not apply. If you want to stick to generalization, thats your choice. I can assure you the failure in your Primerica business opportunity or in the office you were working out of, has nothing to do with Primerica.

Thanks.

Hahahahah! I missed the incredulous business owner comments above.

Common Sense,

Actually as far as business ownership is concerned, you are correct. Until you reach SVP and are given a business value, you are not “technically” an owner of anything. You do however have an opportunity to build your “business” to a point in which it has value that the company will pay you for if you choose to leave.

I’m not going to get upset about the “kool-aid” comments because I’ve created several 6 figure earners and done pretty well for myself – all-be-it, I’m not longer currently active, the checks keep coming in.

As far as business ownership is concerned I do just fine running my own winery and I can thank PFS an the opportunity for everything I have.

Thanks for your sarcastic and childish comments “commen sense”. Quite the ironic screen name. I did enjoy the laugh; much appreciated!

by: Common Sense | March 30th, 2010 (1:20 pm)

D: typical answers for PFS agent and other MLM.

“I’m sorry if you got burned in the organization you were in” and

“I can only speak for myself and my office that everything you have said above does not apply. If you want to stick to generalization, thats your choice. I can assure you the failure in your Primerica business opportunity or in the office you were working out of, has nothing to do with Primerica.”

Again same anwers from most of them. “You got burned out, my office is the best one in PFS, we don’t do things like that, you were poorly trained”

Oh please.

“especially to a PFS er , since you are the ones that should check the facts and apologize to everybody else”

D again it was beautifully said. PFS agents are masters at dodging questions and spinning things. They rely on you getting tired and fustrated with asking the same questions and getting spinned, eventually letting it go.

They should be politicians. I mean masters at spins.

by: Common Sense | March 30th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

David,

I’m glad I have amussed you. Quite honestly your mentality mind set not your comments amuse me.

“you are not “technically” an owner of anything. You do however have an opportunity to build your “business” to a point in which it has value that the company will pay you for if you choose to leave.”

You should know that PFS does not buy it from you. They allow you to sell it to another agents in PFS. The agent pays you for it not the Company.

If the agent (Buyer) fails to pay his monthly payments to you, PFS does not get involve in the mix. It is a garbage system design to make the rich richer. It is Similar to Socialism in the sense that they appeal to the poor for support with empty promises. But at the again the only one benefiting are the ones on top.

It should be illegal in my opinion.

by: the other term guy | March 31st, 2010 (10:48 am)

Please, look at the quote I gave to the term guy it was for a nonsmoker NOT preferred or preferred + so you are wrong and I did not spin as those quotes were not for what you said. Please read my entire post and do notice that our price DID beat ALL the others he had quoted.

No spin here lets cross quote! Bring it on! I admit our focus is on married families with kids so most of this challenge will focus on that except when they are older and the kids are out of the picture.

Let’s start with 10 quotes as you requested. Each of these will all be non smokers, non preferred and non preferred +. Please, make sure your quotes are in those parameters and I will be doing the same. No spin from you and no spin from me just quotes and nothing but the quotes. Also make sure that all of your quotes have a terminal illness rider as ours is included. This way we can compare an apple to an apple. Also let make sure they guarantee insurability with our having to prove insurability at the end of the term. Now that we are in a fair and balanced quote war lets see who wins. Please also give the name of the company that your product will be with so we all on this blog can cross check to make sure you are not spinning anything. Please give a total for the entire family as we include them all on one policy. You can use 2 or more but please give me a total for each case.

Man age 23 250,000 woman age 24 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 20yr term
Man age 26 250,000 woman age 25 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 20yr term
Man age 30 250,000 woman age 31 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 20yr term
Man age 40 250,000 woman age 40 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 20yr term
Man age 45 250,000 woman age 45 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 20yr term
Man age 50 250,000 woman age 50 250,000 20yr term
Man age 23 250,000 woman age 24 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 35yr term
Man age 26 250,000 woman age 25 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 35yr term
Man age 30 250,000 woman age 31 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 35yr term
Man age 40 250,000 woman age 40 250,000 with 3 kids and 10,000 on each 35yr term

No spin give me 10 quotes and let’s see who is on top. I do realize we may not win them all but lets just have an honest discussion. I will give you a copy of our quote sheet for them all so you will know I am giving you correct numbers. I will also check your work to make sure you are doing the same.

by: Common Sense | March 31st, 2010 (4:37 pm)

The Other Term Guy please go ahead and se my quotes. Try to match them if you could.

Below are the specs. Lets be realistic and compare across the spectrum and with various Classes and Terms.

That is what you will face in real life, not the garbage you posted before. I did not include any child riders, so do the same.

Good luck, and please no excuses or spins.

#1
23/M $250K Prefered Plus 30yr: $18.45 (Genworth)
24/F $250K Preferred Plus 30yr: $15.26 (Genworth)

2#
26/M 500K Preferred 30yr: $41.56 (Transamerica)
25/F 500K Preferred 30yr: $32.38 (Transamerica)

#3
30/M 500K Standard Plus 25yr: $36.48 (Transamerica)
31/F 500K Standard Plus 25yr: $38.94 (Transamerica)

#4
40/M 750K Preferred Plus 30yr: $80.11 (ING)
40/F 750K Preferred Plus 30yr: $63.04 (ING)

#5
45/M 350K Standard 20yr: $74.73 (west Coast Life)
45/F 350K Standard 20yr: $57.70 (Genworth)

#6
50/M 600K Preferred 30yr: $203.70 (Transamerica)
50/F 600K Preferred 30yr: $144.90 (Transamerica)

#7
23/M 450K Preferred Plus 35yr: $60.73 (American General)
24/F 450K Preferred Plus 35yr: 51.73 (American General)

#8
32/M 500K Standard 20yr: $72.19 (Transamerica)
32/F 500K Standard 20yr: $56.40 (Genworth)

#9
37/M 300K Preferred Plus 30yr: $29.41 (Genworth)
37/F 300K Preferred Plus 30yr: $24.03 (Genworth)

#10

48/M 1Mil Preferred 20yr: $157.85 (American General)
48/F 1 Mil Preferred 20yr: $121.45 (ING)

by: the other term guy | March 31st, 2010 (6:02 pm)

Funny how YOU spin it. I used your argument against you, you said we can not compete except in prf and prf + and that is why I used the NT so we could compare that. It is also funny that when I give you numbers you want to change funny how you spin it. Why don’t you give quotes with the numbers I gave in addition to the ones above. I will get you quotes on the ones you listed but please also get me quotes for the others as that is what you would face coming against us. By the way I will get the quotes for you as soon as I have time to check the numbers on yours and make sure you included the terminal illness rider like I had mentioned. Also are these all guaranteed insurable to age 95 with out insurability?

by: Answer This | March 31st, 2010 (7:22 pm)

For the standard quotes what type of underwriting does PFL require? Is it a paramed or a swab?

by: Answer This | March 31st, 2010 (7:44 pm)

Is PFS the only company that offers a Terminal Illness benefit or covers all children with one child rider? If everyone is on one policy what happens if there’s a death or divorce?

by: Common Sense | March 31st, 2010 (10:57 pm)

The other Term Guy,

1.Could you please point out where in my statements did I mention anything such as this:

” you said we can not compete except in prf and prf + and that is why I used the NT so we could compare that”

That is not my quote, so please pay attn. to whom you quote.

2. I gave several different scenarios that vary from yours not to spin, but to keep the ground leveled as it is realistic to assume
that not all policies will be based on the same amount and classes, nor terms.

This way many variations are covered and will be easier to determine which Carriers will be cheapest.

3. If you must add child riders, most Carriers will add a child for $10,000 (10 Units) coverage ranging from $4.30 to $5.07 per month.

So to make it simpler just add $5.07 per child.
Ex: $5.07+$5.07+$5.07= $15.21 for all 3 Children.

Pick any of the different quotes and add $15.21 to the end of it.
Ex:

Quote #9
$29.41 (Husband) + $24.03 (Wife) + $15.21 (All the Children)=
$68.65 (Total)

You could do the same to all of them, just add $15.21 to the end of all.

Now to answer your comment regarding theTerminal Illness Rider.
Do you know that most Carriers out there offer that Rider for free and it is standard practice for it to be included in every Policy?

I’m not sure why you make it such a big deal. Do your Homework and you will see what I’m talking about. Having said that, stop bringing it up because it reflects poorly on your knowledge.

On the issue of guaranteed insurability to age 95. Yes they all are. Genworth goes a step further and takes it to age 121.
Call them and check before you ask dumb questions.

If you are going to come to this posts and say PFS is the best Company is the US. please at least be wise enough and check what the Competition offers. Not just learning about Term to Whole life or UL, learn other terms.

If you could not match my quotes them let me know. Just say I could not match them, please don’t give me excuses or spins.

I am an Independent GA and contracted with over 30 Carriers, and I KNOW you could not beat my quotes.

Furthermore I challenge any of you MLM suckers to cross quote and post.

by: the other term guy | April 1st, 2010 (9:40 am)

I will add 15.21 to each. Please read any of my post I never said we will beat all but we will beat many if not most. If we don’t beat it I tell my client to stay with what they have. I will have your quote on Friday. I will be off today celebrating our IPO and by the way notice the news mentions we are America’s largest financial marketing firm. Notice all the good press on the NEWS not posts.
Sorry I was wrong on one point when I was mentioning the NT thing I was thinking of D not you. So I am sorry that I did not catch that you were the one giving quotes so my bad.
As far as standard practice for the terminal illness rider. I would say only about 40% of the policies I come across have that in them.
Don’t mention dumb just because I wanted to make sure that yours were go to 95. I have come across policies from almost all of the companies that you quoted and some had no mention of it and when we called they said end of term it is done and you have to requalify. Some only went to 85. You are doing a great job by quoting the ones that have it. Thanks for being honest and quoting those ones.

David,

Before you tear me a new one about using such language with my clients, realize it is very rare that I ever have to go that far (only once in 9 years), and I get their permission from the get go that if they are going to make a bone headed move and do something to hurt their family, I’m aloud to do so.

Generally, it stops once they get it explained to them what they are trying to do. Rarely, does it ever go beyond.

Lack of Common Sense:
$5.07/child huh? You realize that Primerica’s is one price for ALL children (one rider, not one rider per child).

Second, if you compete on price, the client loses. Period. The one thing those companies don’t offer, or at least from what I could find from ANY other carrier, is guaranteed exchangeability. Meaning they can exchange the policy for another term WITHOUT proving insurability. Post a link to ANY carrier that will offer that, and only quote from them if you are so hard up to get into a price war.

Also, you are really showing some ignorance. There are 3 traits that dictate a MLM.

1) You can never promote higher than your upline.
2) You can never make more than your upline.
3) You can’t sell securities.

Primierca is a modified general agency. A cross between a real estate broker and an insurance company. Period.

by: Common Sense | April 2nd, 2010 (10:59 pm)

Richard,

What does it matter if PFS charges one Rider Cost per family and all 3 children would have one price.

Your Policy is STILL more expensive. This should amke you more ashame if anything else.

I said prior not to spin “Second, if you compete on price, the client loses. Period”

Go tell that to a client. Please Richard stay quite and read sales 101 for Dummies or something.

PFS is a MLM!!!

If it looks like a chicken, sounds like a chicken, tastes like a chicken… It is a CHICKEN.

Wow “common sense”. You are pretty passionate for someone with that monikur, common sense. Why so condescending and sarcastic. I said this elsewhere too: PFS has its Crusade, antiquated or otherwise. You (common sense), AT and others on this blog have a different one. Let that be that. I am having trouble understanding why so much time is devoted to correcting “PFS-ERS” if your clients will see the benefits of going a non Primerica product way instantly at the kitchen table. There seems to be a tactic here. But I want to keep my comment short so that there is no spin answer. Shouldn’t you NOT BE ON THIS BLOG CORRECTING PRIMERICANS AND AT THE KITCHEN TABLE. DOING IT? That’s where PFS-ERS are nabbing clients. Fight it out there! Lol.

by: The Truth | April 6th, 2010 (11:16 pm)

CW,

Primerica is not an issue to compete against. I hardly ever see anyone with those policies.

My comments are directed to those that have just recently or are considering joining PFS.

I believe they sell a pipe dream, full of empty promises and portrait themselves as to be the only ones doing what is right for the client. Although the idea of buying term and investing the difference is correct for almost 99% of the time, their products are below par, and overpriced.

There are better ways and Companies in which to truly serve the client.

NEW PFS recruit get fooled by the sales pitch. It all comes down to greed and lack of knowledge.

CW answer me this. If you could provide the client with better pricing, more flexebility and diversity while guiding them to financial freedom, why go with PFS? if it is not the best?

Stay away from spin. The only answer is the greed of recruiting,
it has nothing to do with anything else.

Other Term Guy. I am still waiting for your quotes…

by: The Truth | April 6th, 2010 (11:31 pm)

Common Sense…

Sorry to jump in, but I’m interested in seeing what the other Term Guy comes back with.

by: Common Sense | April 7th, 2010 (2:22 pm)

Other Term Guy…

What’s going on?

Don’t you independent agents recruit somehow too? Either PFS-ers are taking market share as far as business goes or as far as warm bodies. From what I understand (and it’s not a lot) you can get a number of licences relatively inexpensively using PFS as a vehicle. The cost to start up was my biggest obstacle 3 years ago.

Just because you say “Stay away from spin. The only answer is the greed of recruiting, it has nothing to do with anything else.” doesn’t mean that I got a straight answer. Now remember, before you get snippy with me, I AM NOT A PRIMERICA AGENT!
I don’t make a good sparing partner, verbally or otherwise, I’m warning you.(LMAO)

Ready……?

1. Why the sarcasm and condescension?

2. Why is the recruiting battle being fought HERE? (Is it to un-recruit people to the largest financial marketing organization in North America, because I could truly understand that?)

3. Why is there so much anti-PFS sentiment in this blog? (I mean it can’t be ALL bad now, can it.)

This you don’t have to respond to but whats wrong with dreams? The only “pitch” that I heard from the gentleman who came to my house was that I should definitely stop buying the “pipe dream” that my job has been selling me for the past few years. I am never going to give my beautiful wife and kids the life they deserve with 50hrs a week and 100K a year i get out of that vehicle! That’s not a pipe dream for me to believe, is it? I hope not because otherwise you are really bumming me out right now! I’d rather listen to the other guy.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m a potential client or recruit on this blog, so negativity towards anyone who isn’t TRULY evil (Like an EFFIN Cash Value salesperson) really turns me off to your message. Professionals should conduct themselves that way, much like the Administrator of this blog does (That’s your shout out TFB!!!!!!!) Not like vultures waiting to chop up whatever is said. What, now this blog is a electric virtual gauntlet? What are we internet mobsters now? LOL!
There are verbal bullets flying for petey’s sake!

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (8:41 pm)

I have tried sending the quote a few times it does not show up when I submit. I will continue to try. I don’t get it. I send it but it does not show up. We won a few and lost a few.

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (8:42 pm)

i think it was to big i will cut it down

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (8:43 pm)

Ok I have the numbers and as I suspected we were lower some of the time and even some of the time and lost some of the time. The same is said for you. You beat us some of the time and were even some of the time and lost to us some of the time. Just goes to show you we are competitive. The numbers are listed below. If you or Primerica were within $2 I called it even. Even though if I came across a client and we were $2 more I would not take the sale as it would be best for them (as long as renewal rates were close) by the way I have never seen renewals rates as low as our new product. Most of the time the renewals are 10 times higher than ours.

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:01 pm)

Every time I send the numbers it will not go out. I will keep trying. This makes no sense to me. but I will keep trying. We were even on 1. We won on 3 and you won on 6. Will try and send numbers again after this

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:02 pm)

Strange when I send the numbers it takes me to a blank screen. I just tried to send again. Been like this all week but I will keep trying. Sorry taking so long

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:08 pm)

On the first one we were even. On the second one we won by about $4. On the third you won by about $6. On the fourth you won by just over $20. On the fith you won by about 15. On the 6th one you won as we don’t offer it. On the seventh one we won by about $30. On the 8th one we won by over $30. The ninth you won by about $5. on the tenth you won by 50.

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:09 pm)

Sorry I sent the numbers like that it was the only way it would send. I tried for days and just gave up.

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:09 pm)

On #10 I was shocked so I called an agent that sells American General for quotes on this because we were so far off and the quote that they gave me for just the male 1 Mil preferred 20yr was not 157.85 the quoted me almost 300 for that one person. Accuquote had it at 3300 per year. Did you quote the correct number or is American General and accuquote completely wrong on the quotes? I do believe the agent could be wrong and just trying to get a bigger sale.

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:10 pm)

We were even on won 40% and you were even of won 70%.

This MLM sucker just cross quoted you and did beat you some of the time. So go and do your homework as you said we could NEVER beat you and I just proved we can. Now as a life agent can you help your client become debt free? Can you lower the debt payments so they can afford investments and life insurance? How high of a return have you given your clients in the last year or over the last 10 years? I do not have one client that is under 35% gain from the beginning of 2009 and for the last year I have many clients with over 60% gain.

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:11 pm)

No spin here just facts and I said I would give you honest numbers and as you can see we did not lose all the time like you had stated. Now that you know we have a better price in certain times will you cross check with us to make sure you get the best price for you client or will you do the SAME as we do and just make sure that the plan you offer IS 100% better than the program they have now? As for only competing on price that would be nuts. You have to compete on price, value, type of product and services within the product and stability of the company. We have never had a negative year in Primerica. Can you say the same for the insurance companies you represent?

by: the other term guy | April 7th, 2010 (9:22 pm)

I see we are both passionate about what we do. Now that you know that we do have some products that are competative I am sure you will stop the talk about MLM suckers and the like. We both decided how we want to have our business and for you our way does not work. For me it does and to put down others just because it is not what you like does not show your best side. For me your way does not work. You never heard me put down your way. Will our price be best 100% of the time? Nope! Will your price be best 100% of the time? Nope! All we can do is to put our clients in the better place than they had before we came and if we can not we both should not do the sale. I know I would not and you sound like you would not.

We all do the best we can with what we have. All I can say is that I have never lost a battle when the client, the other agent and I all set at the table together. Every time we won and a few times it was term against term and I won them all. Most of all because of the crazy renewal rates that were not explained to the client and I always educate my client on what they had and what we offer. Again if what they have is at a lower price and if we can not compete I let them know they have a great policy. Because of my honesty even some clients that did not buy from me because that had a great product and I showed that to them and they gave me business from a few people they knew. Honesty and integrity now that is what the clients want.

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (1:59 am)

The Other Term Guy….

Quote:
“How high of a return have you given your clients in the last year or over the last 10 years? I do not have one client that is under 35% gain from the beginning of 2009 and for the last year I have many clients with over 60% gain.”

Lets not go there, I operate an OSJ Branch Office and frankly I am not going to sit here and discuss investments with you, since it is a very absurd discussion. Too many variables to stablish anything in any favor. But I will say I carry a greater portfolio than what PFS carries.

I liked the way you express yourself in the prior replies towards me. Keep in mind I have not seen any numbers from you at all,
so your argument on the quotes leaves it open to the imagination. I don’t like to take an individuals word for it, if you know what i mean…

Quote:
“On #10 I was shocked so I called an agent that sells American General for quotes on this because we were so far off and the quote that they gave me for just the male 1 Mil preferred 20yr was not 157.85″

48/M 1Mil Preferred 20yr: $157.85 (American General)
I just checked again and that number is correct. The following are from other Carriers as well, with the same conditions.

Principal Life: $161.44
ING: $161.70
AXA: $162.05
Banner Life: $162.31
Genworth: $164.24
Transamerica: $165.38
Hartford: $165.60

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (2:08 am)

I just ran quote #10 on the Accuquote website an it gave me $1804/yr. (American General)

You better check your input again…

What was the price for PFS?

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (4:01 am)

The other Trem Guy….”We both decided how we want to have our business and for you our way does not work. For me it does and to put down others just because it is not what you like does not show your best side. For me your way does not work. You never heard me put down your way”

CW…”Just because you say “Stay away from spin. The only answer is the greed of recruiting, it has nothing to do with anything else.” doesn’t mean that I got a straight answer. Now remember, before you get snippy with me, I AM NOT A PRIMERICA AGENT!
I don’t make a good sparing partner, verbally or otherwise, I’m warning you.(LMAO) ”

and”Why is there so much anti-PFS sentiment in this blog? (I mean it can’t be ALL bad now, can it.)”

I will try to explain it again and I have done this many times in different blogs.

I understand that not everyone builds a business the same way and what is good for me may not be good for some.

The problem I have with PFS and any other MLMs out there is the way they represent themselves as an oportunity to own a business or a key turn opportunity as some of them like to call it.

Read carefully and take away EMOTIONS from the discussion, it is very important you do that to understand.

When an agent works FOR (Captive) or WITH (Independent) an MLM system, their so called BUSINESS is owned by the MLM. Pay close attention not the BOOK of Business for the most part (Although PFS does own that from the agent as well) but the HIERARCHY.

Having said that, building a big HIERARCHY is the goal or should be the goal of the agent. If we understand as previously stated that the HIERRACHY is owned by the MLM, not the agent. Then what does the agent really own at the end? NOTHING!!!

WHY? What happens to the HIERARCHY if the MLM closes, goes out of business, the owner dies, etc. The agent is left with nothing at all, just empty promises(PIPE DREAM)

This is more so with an MLM onwed by a single Individual as opposed to one owned by a Corp. such as PFS.

BUT ANY Business could crumble or go out of business at anytime. May I remind you what happened to AIG, GM, CHRYSLER a little while ago. The largest Carrier in the US and Car Manufacturers in the US almost went out if they had not been bailed by the FEDS. keep in mind the FEDS will not bail the MLM!!!

So you could be associated with an MLM and work hard for many years, reach high levels and have a big hierrachy. Then from one day to another it could be all gone. It has happened before.

At that point you would have no more overrides and find yourself back to square one, as if it was the first day you joined.

So the possibility of loosing everything is ever present, REGARDLESS of your personal work ethics or lack off. The future of the MLM is not dependent on you, SO again what do you own?

Now lets build a system owned by you solely. You start as an Independent agent, acquire a high level of income and invest in opening an AGENCY (GA), B/D, Mortgage Company, Real Estate Agency, or whatever you wish.

The future of that business is solely dependent on YOU as the onwer. Having strong principals and good ethics will yield success, of course hard work is also required.

Lets use a GA as an example here. If the main Carrier you have been using goes out of business, simply change Carriers. Nothing happens to the Business.

Why? Because the Business is owned by you, not the Carriers. You should have multiple Carriers to prevent such a thing from happening to you in the frist place.

Furthermore, as the owner you will override all the agents appointed thru you. Not as big as an MLM system but an average of 5%-15% or so.

You must understand that 5%-15% is what the onwer of the MLM overrides anyways from everyone in the system.

I will use the example of Water and Electricity here: both travel thru the path of least resistance 100% of the time.

So building a business thru an MLM system is the path of least resistance as compared to doing it yourself.

When someone in an MLM system (PFS) or any other says “I own my business and you could do it as well, let me show you how”. It infuriates me as that statement is a FLAT LIE.

That is why I call them “MLM suckers” because what they believe is a lie. Now if you are willing to overlook the facts or ignore them and keep telling people that it is all good, then I must say that greed blinds the mind and common sense is dismissed.

On another note, most self made Millionaires in the World didn’t come from an MLM. The same could be said from the highest earners in this business, they don’t belong to PFS or any other MLM system.

So please stop the spins, because some of us here know the TRUTH!!!

Ok, so you do know how to speak to someone without insulting or berate them. As I have said many times, kool-aid or not some people turn into internet gangsters in blogs and leave professionalism at the door because, let’s face it, they can say whatever they want however they want in this forum. I appreciate your perspective on all this. Just don’t say I’m drinking kool-aid because I ask a question or make a point.

Your issue is with how PFS represents itself more than if the business model WORKS. (since it obviously does to some extent) . So we are clear on the issue . Thanks

by: representingtheclient | April 8th, 2010 (8:42 pm)

C W you say that you are a fast learner.

On March 26th 2010 Comparing Primerica to other companies
AT posted this link: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=dGhvbWFzZmluYW5jaWFsZ3JvdXAubmV0fHByaW1lcmljYXxneDoyNmY1ZjNjYTk4ODI1MmM3

Basically a young lady got a policy from Primerica and 4 yrs later she found a better policy through Banner Life. Examine it yourself.

Before she paid $118 a month now she is paying $49. I asked you and others what does this Primerica policy offer that justifies the $69 discrepancy. No one ever replied. Look at what can possibly happen after year 20. The rates can go even higher. Now look at the rates of year 20 of the BL policy, guaranteed to remain 49 bucks for the next 10 years also.

Rick says other policies force you to convert to perm, one guy name Richard made up a story that the companies call you and try to persuade you to convert or drop your policy(something along those lines). Why would he say that? It is simply not true. Here is another question CW that these Primerica guys will not answer. If buy term and invest the difference is so sound why are you concern about renewing or conversion anyway because the you guys do what is right 100% of the time?

Fast learners can clearly see that it is better to have the Banner life policy at least for the 1st 30 years? Assume that at age 57 this lady still needs or wants $1million in coverage. Years 31-35 she pays $809 and 36-40 she pays $1324 with Primerica. With Banner she pays about $925 universal life and the premiums never goes up again and the death benefit remains level for the rest of her life guaranteed. What happens after year 40 with Primerica? This is the best case scenario, look at the max premiums. Some companies allow you to convert only to whole life that would be about $2200 a month. For the record I don’t sell whole life except for final expense and that is because they were to much of a risk for the insurance company(s). Conversion to perm is more company mantra.

Here is a question for you CW, how much are you overpaying? Tell us what do you have.

You may not drinkened the kool-aid but you certainly had a sip.

Good luck,

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (9:14 pm)

CW…

Quote:
“Your issue is with how PFS represents itself more than if the business model WORKS. (since it obviously does to some extent) . So we are clear on the issue . Thanks”

You missed it again.Would you build a new House on a patch of sand? or would you build it on a patch of concrete?

If the foundation is shaky and faulty, then how could it be good to some extent? At any point it could crumble down.

Can’t you see it is a scheme created to motivate individuals with the promise of ownership in order to push a product.

If you still decide to go with it after knowing it is a lie, then you either lack common sense or are greedy.

There isn’t a nicer way to put it…

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (9:18 pm)

Btw representingtheclient…

I wouldn’t talk too much. Last time I recalled reading some of your posts, you (yourself) drink a Kool-aid. Just a different flavor.

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (9:21 pm)

Most people critisize PFS for being an MLM, etc. and yet soem of you here belong to other MLMs.

What is the point?
Trying to recruit others?
maybe making yourself feel better for being caught up in the same garbage different name?

I preach a consistent message, THEY ARE ALL WORSELESS!!!

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (9:22 pm)

sry. mispelled worthless

by: representingtheclient | April 8th, 2010 (9:55 pm)

So what that I belong to HBW. And……….I sell and have access to the same products as everyone else. You want to talk mess about the payout scale go ahead. I like it others like it.

I sell what ever product that best fits the client I hope you use “common sense” and do what is right for your clients.

I am not trying to recruit anyone and I never criticized the mlm structure PFS, I actually love it ours.

So watch your freakin mouth son.

by: representingtheclient | April 8th, 2010 (10:01 pm)

That is http://www.hbwinc.com

Post a link to your site Common Sense show us how it is done.

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (11:54 pm)

Representingtheclient…

Why do you keep bringing the aspect of servicing the client?
Did I say you cheat the client in any shape or form? No

What you do is LIE to recruits by telling them they could build a business, when simply it is not true.

You live of the recruit’s warm market until they dry up. Them you call them failures for not making it.

You see, I know what you are going to say before you say it. “I give them a dream which no one else would”. really? By stealing their commisssions and starting them at 50% or 60%.

What a bargain!!! they are better off starting captive and at least earning a salary while learning the business and tapping into their own warm market., without having a monkey on their back stealing fom them.

Go ahead you fool and drink the Kool-aid. Go to your main office and tell your BOSS you want the business to go a different direction. He will laugh at you. HE (CEO) owns the business, you are just a puppet under him.

What would happen to your HIEARACHY if the CEO dies or commits fraud. YES, it will end in a second.

Or if he tells you “as of tomorrow the commissions will change and now you will make less”. Also now you will only override 2 generations rather than 8. “Business is rough and my expenses have gone up”.

YOU own nothing, just a MLM sucker.

That is common sense for you. Do I have to watch my words again?

by: Common Sense | April 8th, 2010 (11:58 pm)

You see just the fact the it gets under your skin, lets me know that deep inside you know it is garbage and you have to use profanity to express your feelings.

There is nothing you could say to justify that mess you got yourself into.

by: Common Sense | April 9th, 2010 (12:04 am)

Rep… your mlm says it is also for the selfproducer!!!

Really? How is that?

By giving away 15%-20% street commission.
Please, on top of that it only represent 9 carriers.

by: Answer This | April 9th, 2010 (12:14 am)

Common Sense there is an option to use outside carriers. Also not everyone has to start at 50%. Advancement in commission levels can come from personal production or from a team. Also there are no recruiting requirements.

by: Common Sense | April 9th, 2010 (12:35 am)

Answer this…

If you are not going to recruit, then why would you belong to that?

Make no mistake, if you don’t recruit you would be better off being independent.

I question the degree of indenpendence there as well. In 6 out of 8 Carriers you must endorse the commissions to the MLM and then the MLM pays you.

What would happen to the trails if you leave the system? You loose them.

Also the brokerage side is a slap on the face.

The main difference between PFS and HBW is that you have a few more Carriers, so what. YOU STILL OWN nothing.

Quote: “Common Sense there is an option to use outside carriers”

If you do, doesn’t it render the system useless. How would you override.

Again if you are going to self produce, leave that place. If you want to override and do it the easy way by stealing the recruit’s commission then recruit and stay there.

I override agents myself, but I give them full street commissions, paid directly from the Carrier themselves.
I don’t offer pipes dreams nor advertise ownership of nothing.

If you want to own a business, work for it. I don’t care if my top agent becomes wealthy and decides to leave and start his own GA. GOD BLESS him and good luck.

I do know this, since i’ve had the opportunity to come across many agents that belong to MLMs. If you were to take away the ability to recruit and tap the recruit’s warm market, while so called trainning them. (25 friends list) You now what I mean, don’t you? The agent would not know how to make it the real world.

by: representingtheclient | April 9th, 2010 (1:18 am)

Actually I recruit licensed agents……I can get them a higher commission than 50 and 60%. It is not uncommon to see independent agents with 50% contracts also, or didn’t you know that? Don’t go after the recruits warm market. You are stereotyping now.

I will take it further Common Sense. What does career agency shops do? Don’t they have the new agent make a list and encourage them to sell to their warm market?

That is why I am not captive…. so I can take advantage of good fortunes when they exist. Don’t have to call the CEO for anything. Common sense quit reaching you are proving that you have no “common sense”.

What if he dies, commiits fraud, so what……Common no Sense. Basically if the worst happens then I will negotiate our own deals like I have already done with a few carriers. What is going to happen to your when your GA dies, ooops I mean what is going to happen to your agents when you die? Better yet what happens when they want your commission level? I don’t have to worry about that.

Common Sense you are desperate to make yourself feel good, so you try to make me feel bad. You can shut my mouth up easlly show us your GA brokerage.

Those 9 carriers are excellent products for more than 95% of the population. What am I missing except for what participating WL, ooops Ohio National got that on my own. There is nothing holding me back or anyone else HBW and nothing for you to complain about.

Maybe I brought over one of your agents, oh I understand now. I did not use profanity.

I refuse to shut my mouth to you No sense. Now where is your link?

by: representingtheclient | April 9th, 2010 (1:23 am)

Many agents already don’t make it in the real world. Go to any state department of insurance. Pull up a page I bet half are inactive or expired.

by: representingtheclient | April 9th, 2010 (1:29 am)

Help us understand then… As a General Agency Owner what do you own if your agent can up and leave also?

Like I said you are trying to make yourself feel good.

by: Common Sense | April 9th, 2010 (2:18 am)

What Do I own? The Agency.

I will tell you 2 stories to help make my point, since both of you disregard the fact that you own nothing.

A few years ago I met an individual that was and still is sucessful in his own business.

When he was a little younger he joined PFS and recieved awards for having recruited the most agents among the entire Company in a month. He worked for PFS for a few years and build a rather large Hierarchy. At the same time his father started a business and he (The son) decided to help his Dad and partnered with him while he remained at PFS.

Once PFS found out he was working in another business aside from theirs, they gave him two options.

1. Leave your Dad’s Company or

2. Quit PFS and surrender the overrides. It was a conflict of interest according to PFS, although the Businesses were entirely unrelated.

He left PFS and went over to HBW. It was better since HBW did not have an issue if he worked outside the system. Within a year or two he had built a rather decent Hierarchy again. But he himself didn’t write any buisness at all, just recruited and overrided the recruits.

HBW management called him or sent him a letter, (I don’t remember which now) letting him know that if he didn’t self produce $10K in premium he would not be able to override the hierarchy anymore.

He sold his Hierarchy for pennies on the dollar in order to make something before he walked away. He then said this” I have recruited agressively in two MLMs and both took the hierarchy from under me.

The second story was another individual which I met years back, he belonged to another MLM in the Mortgage buisness.
This guy recruited 11K recruits and showed me the print out proving such.

After been involved in the MLM for 4 years his wife and the CEO’s wife had a discussion and the CEO’s wife slapped the recruiters wife on the face.
The following day the CEO called him and adviced him to consider searching other opportunities elsewhere.

In both cases the so “called business owner” lost the Hierarchies.

My point is this, you don’t own anything at all. You just have overriding priviledges until adviced otherwise.

Representing the client… I’m willing to bet you have a very small hierarchy. In order for you to open your eyes you have to do extensive history research and study the high producers within your MLM and find out what truly happened to the ones that were big and left.

Why did they leave? What was the true story?

You are too low on the food chain to know anything that happens internally within your system.

This is exactly the type of things that happens in MLM once high level is attained:

http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/116439/Still-drinking-the-HBW-Kool-Aid%3F

You comeback and spin, but you fail to admit that your business is fake, NOT YOURS.

What do you tell a recruit? Don’t you say this is a great opportunity to build a business and create a team?

But that statement is false.

Quote: As a General Agency Owner what do you own if your agent can up and leave also?

Is that a serious question? Do i need to answer that?

Now where is your link? Why do you want my link, am I recruiting you?

There are hundreds of GAs outhere that are good, and many others that are garbage.

But know something, you are building a system on sand.

For crying outloud why do you think the CEO of your MLM left the one he was in and opened one for himself?

Could it be because he felt it would serve the client better if he left and started one for himself with greater opportunities.
Or the most realistic one was that once he achieved a high leveled in the one he was in (as he himself proclaims,It is all over the main website’s introduction) realized that he owned nothing and open his own.

Remember, before he was drinking a Kool-aid, now he serves one and YOU Drink it.

by: Common Sense | April 9th, 2010 (2:31 am)

resenting the client…

Quote:
“What is going to happen to your when your GA dies, ooops I mean what is going to happen to your agents when you die?

What does it matter I’m dead, in your case if the owner of YOUR BUSINESS dies you have a good chance it could go away.

But now to answer it properly, my SON will take it over once I pass away.

But no one elses death, misfortunes, desires or disagreements could take my buisness away. Only my personal death.

Not such in your case.

You are stubborn, then again that is why you are there.

Now as for you, I don’t say that I am a fast learner, I am. There is opportunity everywhere that’s what makes freedom great. Label it greed or lack of common sense. It of you want to paint a person in a corner because your argument is that you can choose how to make you money. I work in sales and I can choose how much discount I give a particular client. When I give less to one and charge the other more does that make me greedy? PFS may have more expensive products sometimes, but being or remaining a PFS agent after hearing your argument would not make you the judge of someone’s character!! We will agree to disagree I guess

by: the other term guy | April 9th, 2010 (10:40 am)

Sorry I did not intend the comment about putting down our way to you. It was intended to go for another person. Not intended for you again sorry if you thought it was for you.
You said, the problem I have with PFS and any other MLMs out there is the way they represent themselves as an opportunity to own a business or a key turn opportunity as some of them like to call it.
I always represent it as a sales position with the potential to move up to the RVP position. Once promoted you own nothing! After you promote your first RVP and have consistent growth for 4 years then you own the write to sell your business to other RVP’s. I have witnessed one RVP that was making about 400K a year and he sold it for 4.5 million. That is betting than owning your book of business. It is explained to ALL of my teammates that this business is hard and most will NOT succeed. With that said if you work smart and hard you will be successful. Most people are not willing to do the things they need to. I tell them all this is a hard business and you WILL get bashed around but if you are consistent in your activity you will succeed.
You said, having said that, building a big HIERARCHY is the goal or should be the goal of the agent. If we understand as previously stated that the HIERRACHY is owned by the MLM, not the agent. Then what does the agent really own at the end? NOTHING!!!
Not true! We do own the write to sell our Hierarchy to another RVP. I mentioned earlier about the guy that sold it for 4.5 Million. How is that not owning anything? This is more valuable than owning a book of business.
You said, WHY? What happens to the HIERARCHY if the MLM closes goes out of business, the owner dies, etc? The agent is left with nothing at all, just empty promises(PIPE DREAM) BUT ANY Business could crumble or go out of business at anytime. May I remind you what happened to AIG, GM, and CHRYSLER a little while ago. The largest Carrier in the US and Car Manufacturers in the US almost went out if they had not been bailed by the FEDS. Keep in mind the FEDS will not bail the MLM!!!
Empty pipe dream no way! You say look at AIG, GM etc. Well first of all the companies you mention have HUGE debt and invested in risky things. PFS has 0 debts and about 400% capitalization. They all have had negative years and when the financial melt down happened we still made profit. We are NOT going. As far a bail out I don’t think the government should ever bail out failing companies. Let capitalism prevail. That is what was done in the past and worked. Bail outs are not the answer. Notice many insurance companies got bail outs. Why is it that they got the bail outs. The business model is not working. You had mentioned greed is why you recruit. I will agree with that just like ALL General Agencies. The number one job for the General Agent is to recruit. When you do your CE for insurance you will notice the definition is that 70% of your time as a General Agent is to be spent recruiting new agents. Funny how if we do that it is BAD but if the other companies do that it is GOOD! Let’s now get into a different part of ownership. The company had giving stock grants to RVP’s as part of the IPO. It was a small amount to begin with (just over 5 million) for the top 3,000 RVP’s. They have 56 million slotted for the same over the next year or so. They are also giving out 1.5 million in bonus to under RVP for the next few months and this will continue for the year. We also have bonus for non RVP’s up to 20% on life without charge backs and up to 50% for RVP with out charge backs.
You did mention the possibility of losing every thing if the MLM went under. Let’s cover that. Let’s say you are independent and the company you write for goes under what happens to residuals? GONE! You spent years building your business and it is still gone. If you are captured and work a company (non MLM) and it does under so do your residuals. Yes multiple carriers would help that. I know you will now say that your residual will still come because it will transfer to another carrier. Wait just one minute on that one. Jeff on my team use to be an independent agent and one of his carriers went under. I asked what happened to his residual and he said it is gone.
You said now let’s build a system owned by you solely. You start as an Independent agent, acquire a high level of income and invest in opening an AGENCY (GA), B/D, Mortgage Company, Real Estate Agency, or whatever you wish.
Yup invest in opening and AGENCYY GA, B/D and Mortgage Company etc. What is the cost to become your OWN B/D? WOW who has that type of money? The GA doesn’t cost as much but still a nice chunk of cash. You take ALL the risk and 90+% fail. You only risk time and effort with us. Mortgage and Real Estate don’t cost as much but take a look at what they want to do. RECRUIT the same as us and you made it look like that was a bad thing remember. I know many people that OWN a Real Estate company that are broke and looking for extra income and it is funny how I now have many of the Brokers in Real Estate now working for me. They realized our advantage. One of them was million dollar earners in Real Estate and many of the agents had to go get a normal JOB. My agency grew during the economic down turn. It grew by over 100% and that is what excites me. Our growth when most people in this industry failed.
You said furthermore, as the owner you will override all the agents appointed thru you. Not as big as an MLM system but an average of 5%-15% or so.
If it is not as big as the MLM why not go MLM and override more agents?
You said so building a business thru an MLM system is the path of least resistance as compared to doing it yourself.
Very true and most people do not have the money to invest in the B/D, GA etc. Cost is why most do not go into business. Also if you do it your self you have to learn all on your own do it full time from the start and your chance for success is limited just like with MLM. The difference is you did not put up the capital risk with us and if on your own you could be out hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You said when someone in an MLM system (PFS) or any other says “I own my business and you could do it as well, let me show you how”. It infuriates me as that statement is a FLAT LIE. That is why I call them “MLM suckers” because what they believe is a lie. Now if you are willing to overlook the facts or ignore them and keep telling people that it is all good, then I must say that greed blinds the mind and common sense is dismissed. On another note, most self made Millionaires in the World didn’t come from an MLM. The same could be said from the highest earners in this business, they don’t belong to PFS or any other MLM system. So please stop the spins, because some of us here know the TRUTH!!!
I showed you earlier how our business is owned (2 ways stock owner ship and the ability to sell to another RVP) so enough on that. I think the wise people will get it. Again we never say I own my own business until you qualify for such ownership. After qualifying you sign a contract of ownership (yes a legal contract that you can take to a court of law). Yup I do agree most self made millionaire are not from Primerica but we only represent a very small portion of the population. We do have a great percent of full timers that make over 100,000. About 10% of our force is full time (as we hire part timers not people to start full time). So that is about 20,000 and out of that 2,401 make over 100K that is over 10% of our full timers make over 100K. For the rest of the world it is about 5%. Yes many will not make that but most people do not have the work ethic to succeed. As far as the top earners I do not know the numbers for any of the companies that you work with so I can not speak on that. All I can say are we have 62 people that make over 1,000,000 and our top earner is over 5,000,000. We have over 170 that make over 500,000 that is just under 1%. Over 250K is over 470 and that are over 2% of our full timers making that. I like the numbers. Do other companies do good things? YUP!
By the way I was not promoted to RVP with recruiting. It was me and one guy and he is still with me. I just decided December 2009 to start to recruit and build. I now have 17 life licensed agents, 6 with investments license and 9 with a mortgage license. Not bad for a few months. I have been with PFS for over 7 years and just started to recruit. I was successful without recruiting and just doing personal production and will be even more successful now that I am recruiting. So as you can see we do well with out recruiting so please don’t say you can not as I am proof that you can.

by: representingtheclient | April 9th, 2010 (2:31 pm)

As a General Agency Owner what do you own if your agent can up and leave also?

by: Common Sense | April 9th, 2010 (2:55 pm)

Rep…

In every business the agent, employee could simply quit and move on.

Your question is extremely retarded. So in your eyes what is the point of opening any buisness if the agent could leave.

Really? I think you are a little slow, just my opinion.

by: Answer This | April 9th, 2010 (3:36 pm)

I have a question. I’m in the U.S. are there any agents posting who are agents in Canada? The reason I ask is I would think the laws and regulations would be a bit different which could also mean major differences in products and contracts.

Common Sense I see what your saying about ownership and rep. we are family. My thing is everyone should know as much as they can going into a business and have a game plan leaving. Some people like personal production and some may like the option of MLM type compensation. Common Sense the way your going about your business is good for you. Rep. where we are is a good fit for me. That’s our individual choice.

The issue with PFS for me isn’t so much as what’s being said, it’s what’s not being told. As I’ve said before i understand it’s business and it’s not in the best interest of PFS to inform their agents on opportunities outside of PFS. It’s business. They want their products moved. The issue IMO is when agents come out bad mouthing everyone else in the industry from information supplied by one source.. Yes I did it myself when I was a t PFS and when I found out some truths I felt like a fool.. No matter the company or organization it’s business. They watch out for their best interest and we should look out for ours.. Everyone at some level is getting pimped. The key is to just understand the game..

“Everyone at some level is getting pimped. The key is to just understand the game..” See that comment right there shows me that your argument is singularly focused on PFS and not true business sense. Business is not about “getting pimped”!

A business (also called a company, enterprise or firm) is a legally recognized organization designed to provide goods and/or services to consumers. Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies. Most businesses are privately owned.

A business is typically formed to earn profit that will increase the wealth of its owners and grow the business itself.

The owners and operators of a business have as one of their main objectives the receipt or generation of a financial return in exchange for work and acceptance of risk. (You see I DON’T think Primerica IS NOT in BUSINESS FOR ITSELF in EVERY sense!)

Pimping is illegal in most countries. The majority of pimps are men, with the female equivalent being known as a madam. The pimp-prostitute relationship can be abusive, with the pimp using psychological intimidation, manipulation and physical force to control the prostitutes he sends out to work.

If the two have any correlation, you answer that for me.
Ever heard that quote: “Wise men never argue with fools, because people from a distance can’t tell who is who”? One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. In the course of my life, I have often had to eat my words, and I must confess that I have always found it a wholesome diet. Maybe you should too, A. T.

by: Answer This | April 9th, 2010 (10:14 pm)

I’m sure that speech would sound good on Wall Street.

by: representingtheclient | April 9th, 2010 (11:52 pm)

CW

All I have ever did was reply when you guys try to put your term on a pedestal, when it clearly is not. You and other posters from your company might deny it. But I know people have visited site and now can make a better decision.

Not here to recruit.

And Common Sense,

I don’t get it maybe I am retarted. You own your GA. What happens if one of your highest producer leaves and some of your other agents leave, what did you really own?

by: Common Sense | April 10th, 2010 (2:17 am)

Rep…

Let me start by apologizing for been rude to you, I am confident that you are not retarded. If you were, you would not be doing this line of work succesfully.

Having said that, I will answer your question.

Quote:
I don’t get it maybe I am retarted. You own your GA. What happens if one of your highest producer leaves and some of your other agents leave, what did you really own?

The answer is NOTHING!!! simply put revenue would be lost and the net income for the year would be lowered.

Why do I say this? Lets turn the question around and ask what would happen to HBW if the top 3 agents leave?

Again the answer would be nothing, revenue would be lost and the net income for the year would be lowered. Would HBW close its doors. NO!!!

Now let me use this analogy to explain my point better. I would hope that this will make it easier for you to understand.

Lets assume you own a Car Dealership, and in that dealer you sell new cars. All the cars you sell are GMs products.

Now the Owner of that dealer owns the “Dealer”, but not the Business. Why? because the Brand is owned by GM.

The owner simply owns a Franchise, which is a contract allowing him to sell GM”s products.

The problem here is that the franchise is at the mercy of GM’s current financial status.

When the Financial Meltdown occurred, GM restructured itself and closed down hundreds of Dealers (Franchises) nationwide.
The same thing happened to Chrysler.

The owner of the Franchise (dealer) found himself out of business from one day to another as GM canceled their contracts(rights to sell its products).

Lets assumed the Owner of the Dealership was one of those that didn’t get it’s contract canceled by GM. BUT the dealer sells Pontiac and Saturns. The owner was glad he survived that particular restructuring by GM and was allowed to continue.

A few months later GM annaunces that it will stop manufacturing Pontiacs and Saturns and advices the dealers that sell such brands that at a certain predetermined time they would no longer get new inventory and would have to close their doors.

Again the dealers which market those 2 brands lost their business abruptly.

Now lets consider a Car dealership that only sells used cars.

That business continued to function as normal, since it was not bound by any Manufacture’s contracts. Simply as the market melted the revenue decreased and net income was lowered for that given year. But the owner still owns the dealership and sells whichever vehicle he sees fit to sell.

When an agent builds a Hierarchy thru an MLM system, they themselves are a franchise of that MLM. They have overriding priviledges until adviced otherwise.

EX: New Cardealership contracted under GM.

When an agent owns a GA, he is the solely onwer of the Business.

EX: Used Car Dealership. Although certain cars were discontinued by some Manufactures, their business continued as they simply sold different brands. No direct impact on the business.

Now in Insurance terms. As a GA, if a carrier goes out of business, simply change carriers and continue business.

If an Agent has an MLM franchise and the MLM closes, the business is lost.

The point here is that “sure” you could build a Hierarchy, but it is at the mercy of the MLM. There is simply not TRUE OWNERSHIP!!!

As long as you remember that FACT and never allowed yourself to think otherwise, always strive to opening your own business and breaking ties with MLMs structures. In other words drink the KOOL-AID, but don’t SWALLOW IT!!!

does that help you understand it better?

by: the other term guy | April 10th, 2010 (12:03 pm)

If you want to use the used car VS. new car dealer that is great. What is the income for the average full time independant used car dealer vs. the income of the average full time franchise new dealer? Now If you have the car franchise for lets say 10 years and they pulled it out from you. How much money would you have made vs the average used car dealer in the same period? You would have made more with the franchise and enough to go buy a few of the used car lots. By the way notice many of those used car lots are now empty now? How many of the used car guys are gone vs the new car franchise being shut down. I know now you will say that is not fair but I am simply using what you used. Scary that the independants are going away more than the franchise. How many GA’s closed down in the last 30 years? How many MLM financial companies shut down. Let’s see PFS still going strong and building, HBW still going strong and building. Now you will say but what about all MLM. Ok go do your research and you will be shocked it will be about 50 to 1 or way way higher with the MLM shut down on the better side. If you want to compare do your research first or you will have to swallow. Sorry just making a referance to what you said about the kool-aid and putting a little humor in it. By the way PFS was in the UK and because of Citi we did shut it down (we are free of citi now so that won’t happen again). Let’s take a look at what happened in the UK. Primerica steped up and did best they could after the Citi desision. They gave ALL reps 3 times they income they had for the last year. So lets say you made 100K PFS gave you 300K. If you owned your book of business instead how much would you get? We were in the uk for less that 10 years and how big a book would you have built and what about could you get for that book? Some were makeing over 1 million and the company wrote a check for over 3 million. As for the person listed above that Primerica said it is us or you dad’s business the biggest issue was he did not tell Primerica so they could make sure it was not a conflict. It is in your contract that you have to disclose you outside business activity and my fried who is a RVP like me has a wife that owns a salon and he helps her build that business and PFS said not problem becuase he disclosed it like he is legally supposed to. Sounds like the guy helping build his dad’s business simply broke the contract and the law. A simple disclosure could have fixed that. If you don’t disclose and play by the rules they will not know what else you are not truthfull about. It made sense for PFS to can him.

by: Common Sense | April 10th, 2010 (2:11 pm)

The other Term Guy…

I would take your arguement seriously, but I know where you work.

I’ll quote CW: “Wise men never argue with fools”

Stop your spin, please it is ridiculous.

I’ll also quote AT: “getting pimped” PFS is the pimp and you are the madam. Now go service some clients.

You have not voice here, I am still waiting for your quotes and not the silly excuse you gave me.

by: Common Sense | April 10th, 2010 (2:12 pm)

Other Term guy…

You missed the whole point of the analogy, all of you pfs guys are the same.

by: the other term guy | April 11th, 2010 (8:29 pm)

i gave the quotes do some simple math. If I said it is 10 more than the 120 you gave than that would be 130. The same would be for subtraction if I said lower by 8 then take 8 from 120 and that would be HMMMM oh let me get my calculator 112. It is not that hard. If you want give my your address and I will send a calculator. It was mentioned by someone about wall street and my story and I was assuming that they were talking about the stock the company was giving our RVP’s. Well just to set the record straight the 7% of the stock that is being help for the sales force (RVP’s) is in all the paperwork that was in the initial filling of the IPO so the whole world did know about it.

As for the wise men never argue with fools and you think we are fools does that make you unwise?

Did not miss the point I think you missed mine. Read my last post that does look like we own somemthing. By the way as we speak the contest for the shares in the company is underway and if the contest ended today they wouuld give me 12,600 shares. Get that calculator our again. 12,600 X 23.34 (the stock price at close) now lets see if you company is doing anything close to that. That sounds like almost 300K WHAT OWNERSHIP! Please someone answer how much you can sell you book for? No spin please. I did ask this 3 times so far still no answer and I wounder why. Could it be because it is less that what we get for selling our business to another RVP HMMM?

by: Common Sense | April 11th, 2010 (9:47 pm)

The other Term guy….

A BOOK OF BUSINESS is more valuable than a Hierarchy.

Let’s assume a resgistered rep has $30Mil under management.
That would yiled $300K(1%) per year or $450K(1.5%).

That is true passive income, not your MLM structure. How much would it sell? It depends on the buyer.(Open Market)

It is like selling a rare painting in an Action House. You never really know it’s true value. But the trails are measurable.

The question is why would anyone sell it?

Now your hierachy has to be sold to someone in PFS, not in the open Market, and the conditions have to be aproved by PFS. It is a recipe for disaster.

You are owned by PFS, just the fact that you don’t have a book of business is insane. All those years of work and nothing to show for.

As far as your quotes, I want it to be thorough. What about without child riders? A single man or a single woman?

I split mine in independents, not coupled. Do the same!!!

I assume your lack of cooperatin as defeat.

by: Common Sense | April 11th, 2010 (10:05 pm)

Other Term guy…

Quote “Scary that the independants are going away more than the franchise”

That is simply not true, Where do you get your stats from?
Please tell me?

Quote:

“How many GA’s closed down in the last 30 years? How many MLM financial companies shut down. Let’s see PFS still going strong and building”

Are you serious? How many PFS agent quit in the last 30 years? What is the % of the ones that make?

Quote:

“How many MLM financial companies shut down” Do you know?
I’ll take it a step further do you know how many GAs closed?

Since you don’t know either answer, is best not to ask such a question or make such a statement.

Quote:

“By the way notice many of those used car lots are now empty now”

How many Franchise dealers are out of business now? Thousands. Many more than Used car ones, that’s is for sure.

Quote:

“Ok go do your research and you will be shocked it will be about 50 to 1 or way way higher with the MLM shut down on the better side”

Why don’t you tell me where you did yours, so I could educate myself?

Quote:

“By the way PFS was in the UK and because of Citi we did shut it down”

Correction, because of the bail out and the Feds. Since the Feds now own about 50% of Citi.

Quote:

“If you owned your book of business instead how much would you get? We were in the uk for less that 10 years and how big a book would you have built and what about could you get for that book?”

retarded question. It would be based on speculation. Assuming something that never happen as it did.

Most of your statements are not factual and you have no data to back them up. Why do you do such things.

I have noticed that most of ypu PFS guys use wild statements to express thier points, but have nothing to bak them up.

All of my statements are factual and could be confirmed.

I will go ahead and stop answering you, since is like talking to my smallest child. It’s like teaching a 5 year old Algebra. It is simply beyond you at this oint and time.

by: Common Sense | April 11th, 2010 (10:07 pm)

corrections:

you, back, and point.

by: the other term guy | April 12th, 2010 (12:56 pm)

By the way we do get passive income on the book we just can’t sell that part by itself. We do sell it as part of our business so that is part of the value but not all. The value of ours is based on what book we have and the potential future earnings and the size of our team.

This is the exact number of MLM’s in the financial industry that have closed the doors 1. The one in the UK and many of them came to America and kept the same contracts they had in the UK. As far as the bailout being the reason for the UK closing that is not true. It closed down years ago way before the bail out. By the way you said you do your research and what you say if based on fact. HMMM how close did you research that part? How many other facts of yours are researched in such a way. How do I know that the did come to America? Do I just believe what I hear? No I actually know many of them and some are RVP’s and many come over after only being in the company for a few months. We sponsored them and paid them for the PFS business they lost in the UK.

by: the other term guy | April 21st, 2010 (5:21 pm)

Common Sense still waiting to find out what place you got your FACTS about the UK? You said All of my statements are factual and could be confirmed. The UK was a complete lie. I use generalizations because I did not know the exact number and did not want to LIE as you did about your FACTS that could be confirmed about the UK. All I know is when I drive down the road I see more used car lots empy than new ones. My eyes don’t lie and you said How many Franchise dealers are out of business now? Thousands. Many more than Used car ones, that’s is for sure. Because you said that it was thousands so how many was it. If you did your research you would not use general terms. Oh wait you did use a general one didn’t you. Crazy how a child tries to be an adult and say one thing and not realize he is doing the same thing he is saying we are doing. I never said mine was fact I said I would be surprised if it was less and you said yours was fact. I think Common Sense has none or is to ignorant to realize he did the same as me HMMMMM. Stange how it is ok for him but not for me. Please mr Common Sense get me exact numbers on the car lot and give me your sources. By the way I did my research and have some numbers on the two and you are backwards with your numbers. After you get your numbers and give me your source I will give you mine. I will give you a hint I used GM, Ford and Toyota corporate info from the NASD and did a local business check for dealers that did not renew lice. I think those will give you some good numbers. Go get em tiger

by: Ex Primerica rvp | May 25th, 2011 (9:56 am)

I was 18 years with Primerica and made over 100k with Primerica. I can answer any questions about the Primerica system or the brokerage system. I left Primerica 1 year ago after finding out Primerica is not very competitive with life insurance. http://www.term4sale.com proves this. The consumer is better served by a broker. Life insurance is not the only insurance product that is important. Disabilty and critical illness insurance should be considered in a families financial plan. Primerica does not offer either. A convertable life policy is extreemly important. One that can convert to a term to 100 makes estate planning possible. Primericas policy is renewalable to age 95. Ask your Primerica agent how much your policy will be at ages 70, 80,90,95. Primerica will tell you , that you will not need life insurance at age 65 or over. Ask someone who has cancer at age 65 if they are going to cancell their policy ?
As for Primericas ownership policy. How many reps have ownership…0% How many RVP’s? Very few. As an RVP I was threatened by Primerica. They said hey would sue me for talking to past client or speaking about the company. In 1 year my do not compete clause expires. I hope this helps

by: JSkylark | May 2nd, 2012 (2:47 am)

Primerica made a youtube video in which John Addison stated that “Y’all have the raht tuh be rowwung” or something close to that and they went on to state that nothing on the internet is to be believed. I would submit that simply reading through this blog and all the ensuing comments tells one EVERYTHING they need to know about PFS.
Ex – you pretty much put the exclamation point on it all. Whoever doesn’t understand is blind.
AT – Although Common Sense will never agree I think it is good to provide an MLM alternative that could potentially be an alternative to the deceipt, hype, kool aid binge that PFS offers. Although it is impossible for me to remain calm when discussing PFS, I applaud you for remaining more balanced and adult in your comments.
Common Sense – thanks I learned alot.
D – I have the one same major beef. All PFS is about, spin and deception. From the executive suite on down. They have no idea how damaging that can be.
All Primericans – you have offered up nothing. Your hollow words of false positivity are delivered in a bright shiny package of empty contents. Your actions never match your words and your words come from the same giant corporation that you portray in your opp meetings as the enemies of personal success. You are the firing squad that stands in a circle, your guns pointed at each other as well as the condemned. I hope every potential recruit sees the lunacy of following you, when you tout so vehemently that which you have not attained yet. I think the most dangerous one being Megan, so eager to spout the drivel conjured up at corporate headquarters without regard for verifying any of it. But I can laugh at her now because of the simple fact that she has certainly quit and moved on, like most.

TFB – Please accept my heartfelt thanks for what I consider a very fair and unbiased opinion of PFS and a spot for us to rant and rave. For me, Primerica brought about great personal tragedy so my opinions are extremely biased, because they come from a very great pain that would not exist without Primerica. I have been to many opp meetings, conventions, award ceremonies, training sessions. have heard all the Cds, and spent years in association with the company. I came to the same conclusion as you did. It just never made sense to me. I saw things within that company that can only be described as monstrous. Horrid things that only served to fulfill some absurd phobias or imbalance in people who were just happy to have a false authority figure spoon feed it to them. If this were not true they wouldn’t be defending it so vociferously. I just want to say thanks for allowing a potential recruit to obtain some insights into it, in order to aid their decision making in an intelligent manner.